Okanagan Mountain Sheep in trouble

[358mag]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-54772-1-.htm#54772
Sure hope the MOE get a handle on this issue .

[Little Red Man]

That sucks hard.......makes you wonder if there is a way to immunize the animals in any manner.....

[OutWest]

Read that last night. Hope they get that under control asap!

[Deaddog]

not much can be done as far as immunization, there is a provincial plan in place regarding the wild/domestic sheep issue with a co-ordinator in place, high risk domestic producers have been identified and spoken to and the majority have agreed to work towards a solution, that being fencing, buy outs, covenents etc... however it all takes dollars, emergency applications are being made to HTCF for some of the dollars, WSSBC is funding as much as possible as are other user groups.... only makes it that much clearer why the special sheep permit should still be in place (funds directly to sheep)_ ...MOE is working hard on the file as well ...DD

[aggiehunter]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.

[one-shot-wonder]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.


I heard it was a shoot first, ask questions later..........

[GoatGuy]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or .some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.

Not the way it works.

[srupp]

Here in the CARIBOO Chilcotin our die off of California bighorn sheep ahs now exceeded 80% DIE-OFF... the numbers are incredibly low...

I recently found a "new band" or a old band that has moved...withs everal class 3 rams...will check in again..

Those that "are in the know " do mention the sheep conflict with domestic sheep and the lungworm issue..but strangley everyone has clammed up tighter than a drum in the past 6 months...

These die offs can be severe due to the tight society of sheep..:icon_frow

steven

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.

In research done in Washington state...100% of the wild sheep died that came in contact (nose to nose) with domestic sheep.

SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.

I heard they were going to set up a combo youth rifle/bow only hunt for them. Are you in, Ern?

[dutchie]

I trust the bio or the vet found some evidence of the disease in some pellets or some other way before the kill order was put in...somebody could look real bad here.

Unfortunatly sheep run like the gingerbread man when they see you... hence the ram not being shot. and by the time the sample is tested it is too late if the ewe or ram is back with the herd.

Do a little research on what is happening in the USA right now with their Big Horn Population and the Die-off from pneumonia.

I am confident that the MoE shot the ewe and protecting the herd from lethal contact of domestic sheep..

Dutchie

[boxhitch]

I heard it was a shoot first, ask questions later..........Actions were taken as soon as possible, sheep don't wait around for science.
The rest of the culprits are at large, maybe 5 or 6.
One thought is coyotes pushed the band into that semi-urban area. One domestic producer also had some stock taken by coyotes.

[boxhitch]

There is a news video from the 26th on CHBCnews with the MOE speaking out about the situation.
'Bighorn Bacteria'

[dawn2dusk]

Sad.

No different than what is happening to our wild salmon due to domestic fish farming of atlantic salmon

[J_T]

I think the point Ernie is making is a valid one. At times like this, you (MOE) need their media wagon in full flight. Like providing the media information on a forest fire.

Sure, we could start a rumour about a new municipal youth bow season. But that would be dumb. Even mentioning it (just to poke at someone) at the risk of a rumour starting is dumb.

[Caribou_lou]

It mentions they were re-introduced. What was the reason for the sheeps die off the first time round?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It mentions they were re-introduced. What was the reason for the sheeps die off the first time round?

Many yrs of fire suppression lead to forest in-growth and since sheep prefer more open terrain to avoid predators, they seemed to no longer want to take up residence in the park. The fire in 2003 changed everything. Opened it up and provided some good nutrition.

Fire is good:).

SSS

[300H&H]

I saw the sheep on Thursday and called it in to the RAPP line. I then received a call back from Brian Harris (wildlfe biologist in Penticton). Hes asked some questions and for me to keep him updated. Then I saw the sheep again Sat. This time they were in a field with domestic sheep. Our CO in Kelowna called and I gave him the update. He said they would most likely be culled. I saw 2 ewes 1 banana ram & last years lamb, 4 in total but he said ther was up to 6. And they may have come from OK Mtn Park or Belview Cr. heards. Have not seen them since.

[Walking Buffalo]

This just sucks to read.

I'm in Alberta now, but I lived above Naramata for 10 years, left in '95.

It has been great to hear about the sheep being re-introduced to OK Mountain. It is sad to hear about these sheep needing to be culled, unfortunately this is likely the best solution to protect the rest of the herd.

It will be tough to keep domestic diseases away from these herds, I hope it goes well.

[one-shot-wonder]

Actions were taken as soon as possible, sheep don't wait around for science. .

Too bad they couldn't get all of them. This has potential to get real ugly!



One thought is coyotes pushed the band into that semi-urban area. One domestic producer also had some stock taken by coyotes.

I find it far fetched that coyotes would push these sheep out of the burn where the sightlines and escape routes are plenty. Dont get me wrong there are a ton of "urban dogs" in the Kelowna, but to push them off the south slope, that far into town????!!

Does anybody have an research/info on wild sheep and whether they are attracted to domestic sheep by smell or something?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Too bad they couldn't get all of them. This has potential to get real ugly!



I find it far fetched that coyotes would push these sheep out of the burn where the sightlines and escape routes are plenty. Dont get me wrong there are a ton of "urban dogs" in the Kelowna, but to push them off the south slope, that far into town????!!

Does anybody have an research/info on wild sheep and whether they are attracted to domestic sheep by smell or something?

They are definitely attracted to them more during the rut than any other time of the yr.
We're sitting on a time-bomb on the westside right now as well. Those domestics near Trader's Cove are only surrounded by a single fence ...and they now have GPS collar records of the wild sheep being right behind that house with the domestics.:(

Tick-tock......tick-tock.....tick-tock.........

SSS

[Jelvis]

And once there gone don't bring them back here then, If you people can't figure out when you bring in an alien sheep into native habitat of mule deer in BC. what this is doing in the first place.
Next thing from Alberta? Ranching wild elk is another bone head idea you can keep across the Rockies. For velvet on it's antlers to sell to Asia pound some sand.
Those sheep are not from where you have them and never were there transplants from some place else. So like said , don't harm the native deer herds by bringing these grass killing sheep anywhere but the natural places that they are traditionally found. No heli rides or trucks leave em be.
Paul McGurtney .. Live and let die .. give it back to the native mule deer ..
Peace..West Nile is goin to git yah anyways hahahah
Jelly .. Bo deli no more sheep OK Mtn. Period! Bye bye.

[bighornbob]

And once there gone don't bring them back here then, If you people can't figure out when you bring in an alien sheep into native habitat of mule deer in BC. what this is doing in the first place.
Next thing from Alberta? Ranching wild elk is another bone head idea you can keep across the Rockies. For velvet on it's antlers to sell to Asia pound some sand.
Those sheep are not from where you have them and never were there transplants from some place else. So like said , don't harm the native deer herds by bringing these grass killing sheep anywhere but the natural places that they are traditionally found. No heli rides or trucks leave em be.
Paul McGurtney .. Live and let die .. give it back to the native mule deer ..
Peace..West Nile is goin to git yah anyways hahahah
Jelly .. Bo deli no more sheep OK Mtn. Period! Bye bye.

Once again talking out your ass without knowing much about the subject. The sheep were once native in the area, they were throughout all the ponderosa pine/ bunch grass ecosystems that had steep escape terrain for them. Just like the California bighorns along the Fraser in the Junction area, here before me and you and the cattle and domestic sheep.

BHB

[urbanhermit]

its gonna be another waste in the end. why go to all that exspense of relocating without double fencing the domestics, money should have been spent there first. its like buying a $1000 dollar glass vase and keeping it on a table in the kids play room, sure it may be fine for a couple of years but its going to get broken eventually. until that is addressed we have a temporary stocking program at best.

[Deaddog]

double fencing is in the works for a number of these areas, however it all cost money and lots of it.. one project currently in the works is 6km long, cost will be approx 120,000 dollars... takes lots of people pulling together to make these projects work.

[urbanhermit]

double fencing is in the works for a number of these areas, however it all cost money and lots of it.. one project currently in the works is 6km long, cost will be approx 120,000 dollars... takes lots of people pulling together to make these projects work.



thats good news and no doubt it will cost a fortune. should have been done first, even if it took 20 years to do it.

[Jelvis]

urban areas for imported sheep of any kind is not going to work well and no you don't need to be a good wage earning biologist to figure that out lol.
Like urban said, putting an expensive glass vase in the kids playroom is not the smartest thought lol.. I dig that.
Domestic dogs like sheep dogs can induce hypothermia on these wild animals chasing them in snow cold weather, sweating panting then using energy to keep body heat in a safe range.
Leave animals in their native traditional birth areas where Mother Nature intended not where man plays god.
Jelly Tonez

[bighornbob]

its gonna be another waste in the end. why go to all that exspense of relocating without double fencing the domestics, money should have been spent there first. its like buying a $1000 dollar glass vase and keeping it on a table in the kids play room, sure it may be fine for a couple of years but its going to get broken eventually. until that is addressed we have a temporary stocking program at best.

No its like buying a $1000 vase and keeping it hidden away from your kids and the little buggers still finding it and breaking it. These domestic sheep were not on the outskirts of town, they are well withing city limits. The news article said the sheep were 20km inside city limits. Tough to double fence the whole south slope area.

BHB

[bighornbob]

Leave animals in their native traditional birth areas where Mother Nature intended not where man plays god.
Jelly Tonez


Unfortunately we are playing GOD all the time. We put forest fires out all the time instead of letting them burn like mother nature intended. We move into new areas and displace wild animals and their use their winter range as orchards and vineyards.

Sheep transplants and restoring salmon streams and creating wetlands etc is trying to bring the ecosystem back to what mother nature had intended in the first place.

BHB

[urbanhermit]

No its like buying a $1000 vase and keeping it hidden away from your kids and the little buggers still finding it and breaking it. These domestic sheep were not on the outskirts of town, they are well withing city limits. The news article said the sheep were 20km inside city limits. Tough to double fence the whole south slope area.

BHB
i supose, but 20km from the edge of the last house out there is roughly in the mall parking lot on cooper & 97.
i never said it was practical to fence at all, but what we have now is not the best. too bad really, that much great habitat and such a danger for the sheep at the edge...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The funds from the Special Sheep Permit will be missed even more:?.

SSS

[urbanhermit]

The funds from the Special Sheep Permit will be missed even more:?.

SSS
and it makes you feel so warm and fuzzy about government funded safe injection sites...

[Jelvis]

Mother Nature knows best we all know that, we'd be fools to deny her wisdom and energy. She had sheep alright and put them in special locations in B.C.
And when humans try to change spots for sheep and people are close by the two interact adversely causing use of more money, more resources and more response from managers of transplants. Like traffic and automobile collisions with sheep etc.
That's why sheep are better off in the wilds, just like elk and moose and bears. But we know this is impossible without putting up 20 ft fences like along the Coquihalla Hwy thus interrupting and stopping natural migration with man made barriers.
Man has made many well intentioned plans with Mother Nature's animals but a lot fail miserably and then the fingers start to point and the hands come out for more money, time and effort in a losing cause .. Santa Claws
Jel ... Let's let it take it's course and like water will find it's own level.
If I win the 40 million Max .. I'll give a thousand dollars myself for a fence.

[aggiehunter]

Dutchie, I'm not sure what you meant...are gingerbread men fast or slow? I just returned from sneaking up on a herd of 9 wild rams (not townies) to within 20 yards. Now surely a good bowhunter with a tranq arrow could put one down without alarming the others too bad...pipe dream..well no, it can and has been done on large animals. But alas we may not have to worry about any further transplants if they keep killing everyone that shows up...or not doing their homework pre transplant. I had the opportunity two years ago to shoot two feral goats in the wild with the local biologist...this was in sheep country too. We didn't go in and kill all the Bighorns..we took out the problem as feral goats carry disease also. Now I too have faith in the bio's...I just hope they are going to remedy the situation. Maybe the BCWF will buck up and pay to fence that sheep farmers field.

[GoatGuy]

Dutchie, I'm not sure what you meant...are gingerbread men fast or slow? I just returned from sneaking up on a herd of 9 wild rams (not townies) to within 20 yards. Now surely a good bowhunter with a tranq arrow could put one down without alarming the others too bad...pipe dream..well no, it can and has been done on large animals. But alas we may not have to worry about any further transplants if they keep killing everyone that shows up...or not doing their homework pre transplant. I had the opportunity two years ago to shoot two feral goats in the wild with the local biologist...this was in sheep country too. We didn't go in and kill all the Bighorns..we took out the problem as feral goats carry disease also. Now I too have faith in the bio's...I just hope they are going to remedy the situation. Maybe the BCWF will buck up and pay to fence that sheep farmers field.


What kind of disease(s) do feral goats carry?
Are the disease(s) different from domestic goats?
Which disease(s) would we be worried about with wild sheep?
Which cases of disease outbreak have been experienced between domestic (feral) goats and wild sheep and domestic sheep and wild sheep? Be specific and don't limit it to BC.
Do you think anyone other than the wildlife manger and CO was consulted and had input on the decision to shoot the sheep?
If so, who were these people?
What is their background when it comes to knowledge of disease transmission between domestic and wild sheep or domestic goats?
What kind of experience do these people have with disease outbreak in wild sheep?
What kind of a background do these people or this person have in terms of education and specifically with bighorn sheep?
Why did they make that decision and what is common practice in other jurisdictions?
If you can't answer those questions you're in a pretty precarious position to judge the decisions that were made.

If you don't intend to answer the questions, or answer with rhetoric, I'll take your posts as coming from a position of willful ignorance, in which case the discussion was over well before it started.

[Deadshot]

Would it be possible to throw some of the fencing onus on the farmers?
Or will it turn into every sheep farmer looking for a free fence upgrade?

[Jelvis]

What happened to good old beef country anyways? This is the west of westerns.
Jel .................................. Where's the Beef?

[boxhitch]

Would it be possible to throw some of the fencing onus on the farmers?Not likely any ag producer can be forced to protect wildlife concerns of any sort, whether sheep or elk or deer.

Or will it turn into every sheep farmer looking for a free fence upgrade?A concern when the idea of double fencing is tossed around.
pseudo-domestic sheep farmer uses wild sheep protection funds for new fencing or livestock sales, exploiting the system.

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy...Hey quit defending goats...I can answer all your questions right here. It was at the request by the biologist from Region 8 to destroy these feral Goats as they were in close to proximity to sheep and he felt a transmission of disease between "yes" a Goat and a wild sheep was possible. Theres your answer. Want more.... contact the biologist.