First outting for Grizz.

[DevilDog77]

Got out for the first time this past weekend to try and tag my grizz. Got hit hard with weather...If it wasnt snowing, it was raining, all 4 days!

Had a little bit of luck, saw 2 grizz and 2 blackbear (one of which i should have shot.) None of the others worth shooting...Cut a few tracks, ended up 3km off the road at a swamp that we wernt getting through. I guess thats just the way it goes sometimes...Hopefully go out again first week in July...

How do i add more than one photo?


TYPO: haha, sorry boys...as much as id love a little less pressure, not willing to lose my guns over it. Deffinatly meant JUNE

[todbartell]

bear season ends in June :lol:

[NitwiT]

only if your hunting with a tag..

[hunter1947]

Its getting near the end of the season and you have a Grizz tag to fill don't leave it to long to fill ,a smaller grizz is better then not getting one at all just my opinion :rolleyes:..

[BiG Boar]

Its getting near the end of the season and you have a Grizz tag to fill don't leave it to long to fill ,a smaller grizz is better then not getting one at all just my opinion :rolleyes:..

A smaller grizz is something you wont be proud of in your trophy room, dont waste your tag shooting something just for the skull or something rubbed and have some ugly beast you dont want to spend money on taxidermying anyways. This is a rare animal that is slow reproducing. It is a trophy kill and so make sure its a trophy worth taking home. A small bear is a shameful waste of a valuable trophy. Especially cuz you know where he will be at in a few more years. To get that monster, you have to pass up small bears....no offence to 47, that is just my opinion.:wink:

[.330 Dakota]

bear season ends in June :lol:

Thats why he wants to hunt in July..less hunting pressure on the bears...LOL

[.330 Dakota]

A smaller grizz is something you wont be proud of in your trophy room, dont waste your tag shooting something just for the skull or something rubbed and have some ugly beast you dont want to spend money on taxidermying anyways. This is a rare animal that is slow reproducing. It is a trophy kill and so make sure its a trophy worth taking home. A small bear is a shameful waste of a valuable trophy. Especially cuz you know where he will be at in a few more years. To get that monster, you have to pass up small bears....no offence to 47, that is just my opinion.:wink:

X2..............

[SHAKER]

A smaller grizz is something you wont be proud of in your trophy room, dont waste your tag shooting something just for the skull or something rubbed and have some ugly beast you dont want to spend money on taxidermying anyways. This is a rare animal that is slow reproducing. It is a trophy kill and so make sure its a trophy worth taking home. A small bear is a shameful waste of a valuable trophy. Especially cuz you know where he will be at in a few more years. To get that monster, you have to pass up small bears....no offence to 47, that is just my opinion.:wink:

Your right in allot of this..... I know Grizz are political but when I guy gets a tag a couple times in his life he'll get pretty jumpy about pull'n the trigger. And yep the clock is tick'n that why I'm off to the Island tonight.

[Barracuda]

A smaller grizz is something you wont be proud of in your trophy room, dont waste your tag shooting something just for the skull or something rubbed and have some ugly beast you dont want to spend money on taxidermying anyways. This is a rare animal that is slow reproducing. It is a trophy kill and so make sure its a trophy worth taking home. A small bear is a shameful waste of a valuable trophy. Especially cuz you know where he will be at in a few more years. To get that monster, you have to pass up small bears....no offence to 47, that is just my opinion.:wink:


Are you hunting for yourself or to try to impress others???

I hate to say this Dave but that has gotta be one of the most insecure and ugly statements i have read in along time.

Bravado and bluster are qualities that a true sportsman does not possess and to belittle another hunters choice of a trophy is considered a classless act by most.



A trophy animal is like the beauty of a woman and it is in the eye of the beholder.

Only the hunter knows the hardship they endured for that trophy (no matter what you think of it) and the memories that are relived everytime they see it.

is there only one meaning of a trophy? is it the same situation for everyone?

If you want a universal means of deciding a trophy then level the field.

Meaning no help or hospitality from others from begginning to end , no advice or assistance or gleaning of info.
No guides, no paying for help etc etc.
Make sure everyone has the same equipment and finances for it to truly be a trophy.



By that standard we must only consider trophies animals taken by the lowest form that is available to all.
Only animals taken within certain regions can be trophies (regional trophys ).
No more then $100 can be spent on any hunting trip .
All animals must be taken with the same gear which must be within grasp of everyone.
From this day forward only animals taken with a primitive spear will be a trophy and all hunter are only allowwed to wear loin clothes as clothing .
No camo no scent blockers etc.

no quads cars truck planes boats etc are to be used for the actual hunt or for getting to the hunting spot (they can be used one pavement where legal only) Remember that the gas you put in come from that $100 dollar allotment.







If you are not enough of a person without it then you will never be enough of a person with it.


please tell me you are pokeing fun with what you posted .

no offence:wink:

[325]

Are you hunting for yourself or to try to impress others???

I hate to say this Dave but that has gotta be one of the most insecure and ugly statements i have read in along time.

Bravado and bluster are qualities that a true sportsman does not possess and to belittle another hunters choice of a trophy is considered a classless act by most.



A trophy animal is like the beauty of a woman and it is in the eye of the beholder.

Only the hunter knows the hardship they endured for that trophy (no matter what you think of it) and the memories that are relived everytime they see it.

is there only one meaning of a trophy? is it the same situation for everyone?

If you want a universal means of deciding a trophy then level the field.

Meaning no help or hospitality from others from begginning to end , no advice or assistance or gleaning of info.
No guides, no paying for help etc etc.
Make sure everyone has the same equipment and finances for it to truly be a trophy.



If you are not enough of a person without it then you will never be enough of a person with it.


please tell me you are pokeing fun with what you posted .

no offence:wink:

I agree...a "trophy" is very subjective. My archery whitetail buck is one of my proudest trophy's...and the smallest whitetail I have taken.

[The Hermit]

There is also the whole pressure for residents to take their quota or risk loosing the allocation to guides! If you can take a grizzly then by all means do! There are lots of them and it is called wildlife management not big game trophy management.

[Caribou_lou]

There is also the whole pressure for residents to take their quota or risk loosing the allocation to guides! If you can take a grizzly then by all means do! There are lots of them and it is called wildlife management not big game trophy management.


X2. Well put Hermit.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Good post Barracuda.

Was hunting grizz this past weekend and a nice looking grizz appeared @ 135 yds in the last moments of the last hunt (most likely). I elected to pass as it wasn't quite what I was looking for. Now if my one of my buddy's also had a tag and elected to shoot that same bear, I would be the first to congratulate him:).

Placing one's standards of what a trophy is on someone else is never a good thing.:-|

SSS

[GoatGuy]

There is also the whole pressure for residents to take their quota or risk loosing the allocation to guides! If you can take a grizzly then by all means do! There are lots of them and it is called wildlife management not big game trophy management.

You got 'er.
:wink::wink::wink:

[BiG Boar]

Are you hunting for yourself or to try to impress others???

I hate to say this Dave but that has gotta be one of the most insecure and ugly statements i have read in along time.

Bravado and bluster are qualities that a true sportsman does not possess and to belittle another hunters choice of a trophy is considered a classless act by most.

A trophy animal is like the beauty of a woman and it is in the eye of the beholder.


Its true, a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. And being that it is strickly for a trophy, (I have no problems shooting doe's and apply every year, and am proud to take my picture with them.) No one should be proud to shoot an immature animal like a 3 year old young grizzly. There is no honor in that. Mistakes are made in the field and bears are hard to judge, but when you are given the priviledge by this province to hunt something most of north america can't hunt, I think you must respect the animal, and at least let them live to reproductive age. There is no sence in shooting a young or immature animal that you shoot just because you have a tag. Same goes for shooting a sow grizzly. If you know its a sow for sure, even if its huge, there is no honor there.

These animals are incredibly slow at reproducing, and we as hunters shouldnt be taking out animals just because the province alots one to us. If you consider a 5 foot grizzly sow a trophy to you, then I won't tell you its not. But I do comend the guy here for passing up a small to medium grizzly in his quest for something he will be proud of down the road. I have had 2 grizzly tags now and passed up many rubbed bears and smaller bears. I still stand by what I said in that shooting an immature bear is not a trophy and should be avoided at all cost. We have a delicate resource that needs to be managed and shooting a small (trophy only) animal doesnt make any sence for the long run.

Would you shoot a 5 foot sow grizzly on the last day of a hunt? Would you let your partner shoot?

[Kudu]

Its true, a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. And being that it is strickly for a trophy, (I have no problems shooting doe's and apply every year, and am proud to take my picture with them.) No one should be proud to shoot an immature animal like a 3 year old young grizzly. There is no honor in that. Mistakes are made in the field and bears are hard to judge, but when you are given the priviledge by this province to hunt something most of north america can't hunt, I think you must respect the animal, and at least let them live to reproductive age. There is no sense in shooting a young or immature animal that you shoot just because you have a tag. Same goes for shooting a sow grizzly. If you know its a sow for sure, even if its huge, there is no honor there.

These animals are incredibly slow at reproducing, and we as hunters shouldn't be taking out animals just because the province alots one to us. If you consider a 5 foot grizzly sow a trophy to you, then I won't tell you its not. But I do commend the guy here for passing up a small to medium grizzly in his quest for something he will be proud of down the road. I have had 2 grizzly tags now and passed up many rubbed bears and smaller bears. I still stand by what I said in that shooting an immature bear is not a trophy and should be avoided at all cost. We have a delicate resource that needs to be managed and shooting a small (trophy only) animal doesnt make any sence for the long run.

Would you shoot a 5 foot sow grizzly on the last day of a hunt? Would you let your partner shoot?


I'm with Dave on this one, I don't know of many folk that eat Grizzly bear, I do do however know of many that have hunted the Grizzly bear for its trophy value.

Like fishing, I do not kill wild steel-head, why? I conserve the species because I'm smart enough to know the resource is limited.

why kill an immature - or poor representative specimen of the animal if you have no intention of eating it - and it's sole purpose is the trophy?

Yes, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder - what does a drop dead gorgeous Grizzly bear look like? any one got any pics?

..

[GoatGuy]

Its true, a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. And being that it is strickly for a trophy, (I have no problems shooting doe's and apply every year, and am proud to take my picture with them.) No one should be proud to shoot an immature animal like a 3 year old young grizzly. There is no honor in that. Mistakes are made in the field and bears are hard to judge, but when you are given the priviledge by this province to hunt something most of north america can't hunt, I think you must respect the animal, and at least let them live to reproductive age. There is no sence in shooting a young or immature animal that you shoot just because you have a tag. Same goes for shooting a sow grizzly. If you know its a sow for sure, even if its huge, there is no honor there.

These animals are incredibly slow at reproducing, and we as hunters shouldnt be taking out animals just because the province alots one to us. If you consider a 5 foot grizzly sow a trophy to you, then I won't tell you its not. But I do comend the guy here for passing up a small to medium grizzly in his quest for something he will be proud of down the road. I have had 2 grizzly tags now and passed up many rubbed bears and smaller bears. I still stand by what I said in that shooting an immature bear is not a trophy and should be avoided at all cost. We have a delicate resource that needs to be managed and shooting a small (trophy only) animal doesnt make any sence for the long run.

Would you shoot a 5 foot sow grizzly on the last day of a hunt? Would you let your partner shoot?

Don't forget grizzly bears are wildlife - they are also predators. Hunters and conservationists often want predator control to manage, increase or SAVE populations. We cannot use predator control and wildlife management when we want it and disregard it when we don't.

The reason we harvest female and juveniles in ungulate populations is, at least in theory, to manage them. There are a host of issues that you run into when you don't manage wildlife, particularly dangerous wildlife.

Habituation and conflict are two big ones for grizzly bears, not to mention increased cub mortality due to populations reaching carrying capacity and a resulting declining lambda which is occurring in jellystone right now. With that you end up with dead bears killed by people and other bears and sometimes dead people. From that bears (and wildlife) lose value and are perceived as pests. Pests are killed, not managed.

You don't manage wildlife by shooting mature males. Up to 30% of the aah can be female, while it's a balancing act there is absolutely nothing wrong with harvesting a female.

You don't manage wildlife by harvesting mature males only. If we aren't going to manage wildlife, why and how do we justify hunting?

[Caribou_lou]

I'm with Dave on this one, I don't know of many folk that eat Grizzly bear, I do do however know of many that have hunted the Grizzly bear for its trophy value.

Like fishing, I do not kill wild steel-head, why? I conserve the species because I'm smart enough to know the resource is limited.

I eat grizzly bear and I have killed steehead. Both are great.
You claim the resource is limited, I claim we are limited to using our resources.

[Kody94]

Don't forget grizzly bears are wildlife - they are also predators. Hunters and conservationists often want predator control to manage, increase or SAVE populations. We cannot use predator control and wildlife management when we want it and disregard it when we don't.

The reason we harvest female and juveniles in ungulate populations is, at least in theory, to manage them. There are a host of issues that you run into when you don't manage wildlife, particularly dangerous wildlife.

Habituation and conflict are two big ones for grizzly bears, not to mention increased cub mortality due to populations reaching carrying capacity and a resulting declining lambda which is occurring in jellystone right now. With that you end up with dead bears killed by people and other bears and sometimes dead people. From that bears (and wildlife) lose value and are perceived as pests. Pests are killed, not managed.

You don't manage wildlife by shooting mature males. Up to 30% of the aah can be female, while it's a balancing act there is absolutely nothing wrong with harvesting a female.

You don't manage wildlife by harvesting mature males only. If we aren't going to manage wildlife, why and how do we justify hunting?

I agree generally, but given the slow reproductive rate of g-bears, and the lack of female dispersal, I think its best we avoid harvesting females grizzers whenever possible.

We all know what a little female mortality does to the AAH (and therefore the number of LEH's) in the tighter MU's.

As far as young males go, well, if the hunter's happy with it, who the hell are we to judge?

[GoatGuy]

I agree generally, but given the slow reproductive rate of g-bears, and the lack of female dispersal, I think its best we avoid harvesting females grizzers whenever possible.

We all know what a little female mortality does to the AAH (and therefore the number of LEH's) in the tighter MU's.

As far as young males go, well, if the hunter's happy with it, who the hell are we to judge?

To be honest that's mostly in the EK. Can think of 3 mu in 7B, 1 in 5 a couple in the WK and that's really about it off the top of my head. A few of the small hunts would be impacted IE Region 8 and again a few of the spots in the EK.

The rest of the province there would be no issue if someone shot A grizzly bear, male, female or otherwise. Particularly region 6, but also 7a and 7b................... :wink:

Should edit this I guess when you look at the odds and number of tags available it might seem like we have problems or could have problems but the truth of the matter is there aren't even close to enough tags being released in most regions of the province. Region 4 is the ONLY exception.

[DevilDog77]

Ive never tagged a grizz before, and to be honust...im proud of myself for passing up on not only the first, but second grizzly's i laid eyes on this year. As much as id like another story in the hunting book, neither of them are quite what im looking for.

I still have a feeling i will tag out before June 15th, but if i dont...not the end of the world. It's still exciting getting as close as i did to such a powerful, beautiful animal.. As much as i like dropping things, its nice to enjoy wildlife doing what they do.

Just my 2 cents...

[shoot to kill]

I'm with Dave on this one, I don't know of many folk that eat Grizzly bear, I do do however know of many that have hunted the Grizzly bear for its trophy value.

Like fishing, I do not kill wild steel-head, why? I conserve the species because I'm smart enough to know the resource is limited.

why kill an immature - or poor representative specimen of the animal if you have no intention of eating it - and it's sole purpose is the trophy?

Yes, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder - what does a drop dead gorgeous Grizzly bear look like? any one got any pics?

..

The fact that you hyphenated Steelhead and don't kill wild ones because you want to conserve the resource, not because its illegal makes me laugh, bad analogy.

[BiG Boar]

DevilDog you will get your grizz, and you will be proud of it when it hits the ground. Good work holding out. If not, theres always next year. And if they ban the hunt, theres always russia.

[Barracuda]

no one has said anything about sub adult bears or immature being harvested.

The fact that a fully mature bear is rubbed or does not have genes that make it a monster does not diminish it as a trophy .
Is a huge record bear with a poor coat still a trophy? Is that perfect coated blackbear size inland grizz still a trophy even though it is 2/3 the size of a coastal bear?



It is the flawed logic that only a big bear (with large bear genes) and one that still has a perfect coat is worthy of being called a trophy .

[OutWest]

no one has said anything about sub adult bears or immature being harvested.

The fact that a fully mature bear is rubbed or does not have genes that make it a monster does not diminish it as a trophy .
Is a huge record bear with a poor coat still a trophy? Is that perfect coated blackbear size inland grizz still a trophy even though it is 2/3 the size of a coastal bear?



It is the flawed logic that only a big bear (with large bear genes) and one that still has a perfect coat is worthy of being called a trophy .

Absolutely agree. Both sides are making strong points. To each their own.

[hawkfu]

Trophy is TROPHY. Whatever you like it yourself. Any thing you harvest yourself legally have a good memory. Good luck.

[srupp]

hmmmm while it is true that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder , grizzly hunting is a bit of a special issue..these animals "mostly " are not harvested for meat, but the trophy value..that includes the skull and the hide..

I have the uttmost admiration for those that can "eat the tag" after a long wait to get a leh tag for G bear and the costs involved in going after one..

And I do agree that each has his own concept of what a "trophy " is..that being said,,,there are reasonable limits and by all terms generous guidlines for what the lower end of the guidlines are for harvesting a g bear...

Each year I get asked what is a trophy size for both mountain grizzlies and coastal grizzlies..brown bears..and one of the cliches i do use ..is the eyes of the beholder..

By getting out of a office in Vancouver, winning a leh..and spending the time and money it is very understandable that it would be nice to bring home a grizzly bear..

But by winning the tag and spending the 2 weeeks out there seeing bears and coming home safetly you have already been successful..

And just because its not 10 foot bear does not mean its not a trophy..however if a bear is so badly rubbed that its down to the skin..with virtually no hair left on it..and you realize if you shot it you would not make it into a rug..(so much hide showing better left to make leather goods ) then somehow it doesnt make sense to harvest it just to say you did so.. and those same "iffy " guidlines are applicable to age and size..

A interior grizzly that is under 5 feet is not considered trophy size as it is still imature..the definition of trophy size is known within a region for what is 'an average representation of an adult animal in that area"..an ethical kill of an average sized adult animal in a fair chase situation is still a trophy to that hunter...it may not be to others but so??

I try and set a lower limit..again if the animal is not an adult(grizzly ) it is not a trophy..
if it is so ravaged by rubbing that you would not get it tanned or made into a rug..it is not a trophy by not getting it tanned or done into a rug you yourself have realized it is not a trophy even in your books..
if its is so small that you wouldnt get it tanned or made into a rug again you have realized it is not a trophy in your books..

Each person has a different set of guidlines dependent on time, money, skills, knowlege, ability,and experience..and as each of those peramiters changes so will your expectations and demands on what constitutes a trophy in your own eyes..

On interior bears, when helping guys along..I make the suggestion on MINIMUM size of 6 feet this ensures it has enough age to be an adult..I do not personally feel for "myself" that a 6 foot interior bear is a "trophy " sized bear for me..and for knowlegable hunters a 6 foot bear is a keeper but certainly not up there in size by any means...for those who may never get another chance or limied by chances, finances, knowlege, ability...I still feel a 5 foot or 5 1/2 foot interior bear is NOT a trophy and is not even a shooter..and I do tell folks that...

Costal bears..6 feet is too small not an average representative example of a coastal grizzly bear and should be passed..at 7 feet this represents the average size of a coastal grizzly bear that is of adult age...while it may not be huge by the book or others standards..it certainly is representative of a average adult coastal grizzly and could be harvested with pride as an accomplishement..

However if it is so ratty that you realize you wouldnt spend the $$$ on getting it tanned..well you have determained its not a trophy..

I have actually seen a 5 foot coastal grizzly that was harvested in the past 5 years..the hide was rubbed raw..hardly any hair at all, hardly much more than an yearling..it is not B&C ..it is not even adult, it is not fit to be tanned, nor was it more than 180 pounds..and after shooting it the hunter himself acknowleged he 'wasnt going to do anything with it"

I have different guidlines for myself than say Barracuda or Bigbore 14 or again someone who comes for a once in a lifetime g bear hunt..

There definatly are bears out there that for one of those 3 guidlines should not be shot and are not trophies..if we are shooting it FOR agood glossy coat to make a rug..and it isnt..but is totally rubbed ...



if we are attempting to harvest a true representation of an adult interior G bear on SIZE and its 5 feet it fails..

I believe there are minimum guidlines on these grizzlies..

I believe we can also grow in education and knowlege and this will change our "goals" I know a gent that harvested a very small grizzly with a very very poor hide...it was harvested last day of the spring season...that day was 26 degrees and had been for 2 weeks.. that was 15 years ago..he now wants another G bear..and he has set his sites on a much bigger better bear.

I hunted with Bigbore 14.. he studied many many G bears, and he had spent CONDSIDERABLE sums of money to get this hunt done..however that didnt bother him his goal was the adult well furred true representative adult male G bear..Dave asked me TONS OF QUESTIONS..all pretty darn good..and one by one we eliminated each and every bear..Dave turned down 8 foot females...and 8 foot males..the males was so badly damaged by rubbing it was not a suitable candidate for being tanned and making a 'reasonable rug" so he was passed...small bears 6 footers were passed on..at the end Rob had harvested a adult sized well furred bear..and also KNWE he would never go on another G bear hunt..while Dave knew he would both had different out comes..one harvested a G bear one declined BOTH had successful hunts .

I RESPECT Dave for his ability not to pull the pin on just any bear..and IMO there are bears out there that shouldnt be shot under ANY criteria as "trophies.."they arnt,,at a certain size they are too smal..at a certain age they are too young ,at a certain condition they are too rubbed..and we will just have to disagree Im ok with that..

Another example I know of a bear that was shot because it had a BIG mellon for a head..the hide was so bad it was brought home and nothing was done..no tanning no rug nada..IMO that bear shouldnt have been shot...

We all have different ideas and standards for what constitutes a trophy..I consider the word Trophy to mean a well earned acomplishement..more than just average...something to be proud of and want to exhibit or show it to others..and there are Grizzly bears out there that do not qualify for one reason or another and shouldnt be shot..another group that although could be shot and harvested by someone and be an acomplishment and a trophy to THE HUNTER but maybe not to guys interested in the B&C BOOK AND NUMBERS...and then there are those that just consider trophies to mean the biggest and the best..top of the heap..top % of animals to be found..ie 25 " grizzly skull, or square 9 foot..or perfect primo coat..

cheers
Srupp

[gutpile]

If it was legal to shoot a little cub i would love to take one and make it in to a rug. Then i would have it on my coffee table, i would consider it as a trophy. but a large rubbed ugly bear i would not consider as a trophy. Each to their own.

[hunter1947]

hmmmm while it is true that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder , grizzly hunting is a bit of a special issue..these animals "mostly " are not harvested for meat, but the trophy value..that includes the skull and the hide..

I have the uttmost admiration for those that can "eat the tag" after a long wait to get a leh tag for G bear and the costs involved in going after one..

And I do agree that each has his own concept of what a "trophy " is..that being said,,,there are reasonable limits and by all terms generous guidlines for what the lower end of the guidlines are for harvesting a g bear...

Each year I get asked what is a trophy size for both mountain grizzlies and coastal grizzlies..brown bears..and one of the cliches i do use ..is the eyes of the beholder..

By getting out of a office in Vancouver, winning a leh..and spending the time and money it is very understandable that it would be nice to bring home a grizzly bear..

But by winning the tag and spending the 2 weeeks out there seeing bears and coming home safetly you have already been successful..

And just because its not 10 foot bear does not mean its not a trophy..however if a bear is so badly rubbed that its down to the skin..with virtually no hair left on it..and you realize if you shot it you would not make it into a rug..(so much hide showing better left to make leather goods ) then somehow it doesnt make sense to harvest it just to say you did so.. and those same "iffy " guidlines are applicable to age and size..

A interior grizzly that is under 5 feet is not considered trophy size as it is still imature..the definition of trophy size is known within a region for what is 'an average representation of an adult animal in that area"..an ethical kill of an average sized adult animal in a fair chase situation is still a trophy to that hunter...it may not be to others but so??

I try and set a lower limit..again if the animal is not an adult(grizzly ) it is not a trophy..
if it is so ravaged by rubbing that you would not get it tanned or made into a rug..it is not a trophy by not getting it tanned or done into a rug you yourself have realized it is not a trophy even in your books..
if its is so small that you wouldnt get it tanned or made into a rug again you have realized it is not a trophy in your books..

Each person has a different set of guidlines dependent on time, money, skills, knowlege, ability,and experience..and as each of those peramiters changes so will your expectations and demands on what constitutes a trophy in your own eyes..

On interior bears, when helping guys along..I make the suggestion on MINIMUM size of 6 feet this ensures it has enough age to be an adult..I do not personally feel for "myself" that a 6 foot interior bear is a "trophy " sized bear for me..and for knowlegable hunters a 6 foot bear is a keeper but certainly not up there in size by any means...for those who may never get another chance or limied by chances, finances, knowlege, ability...I still feel a 5 foot or 5 1/2 foot interior bear is NOT a trophy and is not even a shooter..and I do tell folks that...

Costal bears..6 feet is too small not an average representative example of a coastal grizzly bear and should be passed..at 7 feet this represents the average size of a coastal grizzly bear that is of adult age...while it may not be huge by the book or others standards..it certainly is representative of a average adult coastal grizzly and could be harvested with pride as an accomplishement..

However if it is so ratty that you realize you wouldnt spend the $$$ on getting it tanned..well you have determained its not a trophy..

I have actually seen a 5 foot coastal grizzly that was harvested in the past 5 years..the hide was rubbed raw..hardly any hair at all, hardly much more than an yearling..it is not B&C ..it is not even adult, it is not fit to be tanned, nor was it more than 180 pounds..and after shooting it the hunter himself acknowleged he 'wasnt going to do anything with it"

I have different guidlines for myself than say Barracuda or Bigbore 14 or again someone who comes for a once in a lifetime g bear hunt..

There definatly are bears out there that for one of those 3 guidlines should not be shot and are not trophies..if we are shooting it FOR agood glossy coat to make a rug..and it isnt..but is totally rubbed ...



if we are attempting to harvest a true representation of an adult interior G bear on SIZE and its 5 feet it fails..

I believe there are minimum guidlines on these grizzlies..

I believe we can also grow in education and knowlege and this will change our "goals" I know a gent that harvested a very small grizzly with a very very poor hide...it was harvested last day of the spring season...that day was 26 degrees and had been for 2 weeks.. that was 15 years ago..he now wants another G bear..and he has set his sites on a much bigger better bear.

I hunted with Bigbore 14.. he studied many many G bears, and he had spent CONDSIDERABLE sums of money to get this hunt done..however that didnt bother him his goal was the adult well furred true representative adult male G bear..Dave asked me TONS OF QUESTIONS..all pretty darn good..and one by one we eliminated each and every bear..Dave turned down 8 foot females...and 8 foot males..the males was so badly damaged by rubbing it was not a suitable candidate for being tanned and making a 'reasonable rug" so he was passed...small bears 6 footers were passed on..at the end Rob had harvested a adult sized well furred bear..and also KNWE he would never go on another G bear hunt..while Dave knew he would both had different out comes..one harvested a G bear one declined BOTH had successful hunts .

I RESPECT Dave for his ability not to pull the pin on just any bear..and IMO there are bears out there that shouldnt be shot under ANY criteria as "trophies.."they arnt,,at a certain size they are too smal..at a certain age they are too young ,at a certain condition they are too rubbed..and we will just have to disagree Im ok with that..

Another example I know of a bear that was shot because it had a BIG mellon for a head..the hide was so bad it was brought home and nothing was done..no tanning no rug nada..IMO that bear shouldnt have been shot...

We all have different ideas and standards for what constitutes a trophy..I consider the word Trophy to mean a well earned acomplishement..more than just average...something to be proud of and want to exhibit or show it to others..and there are Grizzly bears out there that do not qualify for one reason or another and shouldnt be shot..another group that although could be shot and harvested by someone and be an acomplishment and a trophy to THE HUNTER but maybe not to guys interested in the B&C BOOK AND NUMBERS...and then there are those that just consider trophies to mean the biggest and the best..top of the heap..top % of animals to be found..ie 25 " grizzly skull, or square 9 foot..or perfect primo coat..

cheers
Srupp

Thats why I have never put in for a grizzy tag ,I have always been a ferm belever that I won't shot what I won't eat.

This is why I don't shoot black bears as well I don't like to eat the meat..

[Darksith]

There is also the whole pressure for residents to take their quota or risk loosing the allocation to guides! If you can take a grizzly then by all means do! There are lots of them and it is called wildlife management not big game trophy management.

Wildlife management? Really? Its actually called hunting. And if you think that shooting any grizzly is in the best intrest of the species you need to go back under your rock. I'm all for hunting grizzly, but don't just shoot 1 b/c you can. That attitude will lead to a sow being shot, or an immature bear being taken, or a family unit broken up. If you ask the guides they are losing so many of their grizz tags, mostly due to habitat destruction. So its not a competition between us and the guides, its not management of the species, its hunting, and its allowed when species numbers are healthy, and killing a younger bear isn't gonna help that species, don't just shoot any bear. Whatever your standards/goals are for that hunt I hope you stick to them and don't bend on them b/c some idiot is saying "that might be the last 1 you see this year." A great hunt isn't always a successful hunt, and if you shoot a bear that you aren't going to be happy with whatever your standards, then a successful hunt isn't always a great hunt either.

[.330 Dakota]

Im afraid that I am with Dave on this one too, I have passed on many imature Grizzlies in the past 2 years. I dont like to kill small bears and I feel it is hard on the resource if they havent had a chance to breed yet.

[Barracuda]

again no one has said anything about an immature bear or one that has not been in the breeding population . (these are all factored in in the LEH BTW)

This is simply about size and condition makeing it something to be proud of which is a call that can only be made by the shooter.


It was simply said that for another hunter to look down on someone elses idea of a trophy because it is not meet thier criteria is a vulger act.



For a person to take the time out and hunt an animal and decide that the animal is the one for them is as respectable as a person that decides it isnt and passes on it.
Now add the fact that they have won a lottery in order to get that tag and that also is a consideration.

Most people are not Silver Spoons or Captains of Industy .
They are average with average incomes and average lives with average time constraints .
If they are able to get out and find an average bear ,deer, jackalope etc and take it they very often consider it a trophy simply because they overcome obsticales that were a big deal for them.


I see a ton of game taxidermied that are no more then an average representation of the species and they are considered a trophy by the owners. I have seen Ratty rubbed bears , small deer , Raccoons and rabbits mounted that had a story behind it. ( I also know of a stunning record grizz and polarbear with lifesize mounts of the two with equal stories)


If the bear is a record bear it is only that by its skull so if that is your only goal then worrying about the hide is not warrented .
If breeding population is your concern then the bear only has to be mature (not to be confused with big or non rubbed) bear past 5 years or so .




I see plenty of average or below average animal shot in far off game reserves that are taxidermied and they are all "trophies".

I have seen some of the ugliest animals taxied and they were considered trophies simply because of the circumstances. (trip of a lifetime ,taken with bow ,etc)



If a guy shoots a big bear (be it coastal or inland) yet it is rubbed, the skull makes the books and the bear is made into a mount is this bear still a trophy?

If someone shoots a smaller Grizzly that is clearly old should they not get it taxidermied because it does not meet the size criteria of a certain group??


Now My standards for a bear will differ from other people and they seem closer to what SRupp had said which is probably closer to the average .

Takeing a grizzly that is essentially the same size of a Blackbear (6ft) is not what i want but that is me and me alone unless there were special circumstances of the hunt (by hounds would be one)


But if another person wanted to take an actuall representation of a grizzly (They come in all differnt sizes and conditions) and they were proud and tickled pink about the whole ordeal then who am i to say that it isnt something to be proud of?

[BiG Boar]

A smaller grizz is something you wont be proud of in your trophy room, dont waste your tag shooting something just for the skull or something rubbed and have some ugly beast you dont want to spend money on taxidermying anyways. This is a rare animal that is slow reproducing. It is a trophy kill and so make sure its a trophy worth taking home. A small bear is a shameful waste of a valuable trophy. Especially cuz you know where he will be at in a few more years. To get that monster, you have to pass up small bears....no offence that is just my opinion.:wink:

I guess I meant immature when I said smaller bears. Sorry I didnt clarify that in the post. I think we all aggree that shooting a trophy only bear knowing it is immature or you will waste the cape or entire animal is unethical. We are stewards of the land, and we need to take care of what we have. If you want to shoot a full grown but smaller narly rubbed bear and are going to consider it a trophy and you are going to use the animal, then I say have at it. Some people wont hunt anything unless they eat it, and that is to thier code of ethics. Sorry for the miscomunication, I was just congradulating the tag holder for holding out and not wasting his tag on the immature bear in his picture. Still got some time, get out there and you'll find your trophy. My tag is gone to waste as I wont be back out there this year.

[GoatGuy]

G bears are sexually mature at 3-5.

There are plenty of bears out there that will live a long life and are sexually mature that don't make 6', nevermind 7'. There are parts of the province where the biggest fall bear is hard pressed to break 500 lbs.

[huntwriter]

again no one has said anything about an immature bear or one that has not been in the breeding population . (these are all factored in in the LEH BTW)

This is simply about size and condition makeing it something to be proud of which is a call that can only be made by the shooter.


It was simply said that for another hunter to look down on someone elses idea of a trophy because it is not meet thier criteria is a vulger act.



For a person to take the time out and hunt an animal and decide that the animal is the one for them is as respectable as a person that decides it isnt and passes on it.
Now add the fact that they have won a lottery in order to get that tag and that also is a consideration.

Most people are not Silver Spoons or Captains of Industy .
They are average with average incomes and average lives with average time constraints .
If they are able to get out and find an average bear ,deer, jackalope etc and take it they very often consider it a trophy simply because they overcome obsticales that were a big deal for them.


I see a ton of game taxidermied that are no more then an average representation of the species and they are considered a trophy by the owners. I have seen Ratty rubbed bears , small deer , Raccoons and rabbits mounted that had a story behind it. ( I also know of a stunning record grizz and polarbear with lifesize mounts of the two with equal stories)


If the bear is a record bear it is only that by its skull so if that is your only goal then worrying about the hide is not warrented .
If breeding population is your concern then the bear only has to be mature (not to be confused with big or non rubbed) bear past 5 years or so .




I see plenty of average or below average animal shot in far off game reserves that are taxidermied and they are all "trophies".

I have seen some of the ugliest animals taxied and they were considered trophies simply because of the circumstances. (trip of a lifetime ,taken with bow ,etc)



If a guy shoots a big bear (be it coastal or inland) yet it is rubbed, the skull makes the books and the bear is made into a mount is this bear still a trophy?

If someone shoots a smaller Grizzly that is clearly old should they not get it taxidermied because it does not meet the size criteria of a certain group??


Now My standards for a bear will differ from other people and they seem closer to what SRupp had said which is probably closer to the average .

Takeing a grizzly that is essentially the same size of a Blackbear (6ft) is not what i want but that is me and me alone unless there were special circumstances of the hunt (by hounds would be one)


But if another person wanted to take an actuall representation of a grizzly (They come in all differnt sizes and conditions) and they were proud and tickled pink about the whole ordeal then who am i to say that it isnt something to be proud of?

This is one of the best post I've read in a very long time. Would be nice if all hunters would think like that and be equally respectful of others.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This is a pretty interesting thread.......

I was drawn for my first "g" tag this spring after 10 years of applying. I did three (4 day) solo trips, hiked/snowshoed over 120km's in a road closure area and harvested a smaller kootenay grizz (just over 5' aged at 5 years old by tooth) (I spent a lot of time to make sure it was a boar before i shot)

He has a great looking silvertip hide with 3" white claws. I have no problem sleeping at night. I busted my hump for this bear and in my eyes he is going to make a great rug and trophy; And it will remind me about the hunt till the day I die.

To me Its not all about the size of the animal harvested but the hunt itself. Now I have the first one down and If Im lucky enough to be drawn again I will hold out for a big boar.

I guess some might have a problem with this......

Certainly not myself!
Size or no animal doesn't matter to me.
Congrats!!

SSS

[Slee]

DevilDog you will get your grizz, and you will be proud of it when it hits the ground. Good work holding out. If not, theres always next year. And if they ban the hunt, theres always russia.

So are you offering to take us all there if they close g-bears here in BC???

I imagine the average guy would hold out for the monster trophies if they had your money; And was able to travel the world killing things.

For a lot of guys a grizz is a once in a life time hunt and costs a lot of money to hunt. As long as its legal (over 2 years old) and a boar then fly at'er. Hunting is not always about the end product but the journey getting there. whether successful or not.

[Blainer]

Let's also note that the leh authorization notes valid for one only Grizzly Bear Adult Only.
The ministry also forwards information regarding identification and refers the winners of the draw to a website to study identification methods to deter the harvest of female Grizzlies.
I personally have respect for hunters that pass on opportunities to harvest smaller animals in pursuit of mature males.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

So are you offering to take us all there if they close g-bears here in BC???

I imagine the average guy would hold out for the monster trophies if they had your money; And was able to travel the world killing things.

For a lot of guys a grizz is a once in a life time hunt and costs a lot of money to hunt. As long as its legal (over 2 years old) and a boar then fly at'er. Hunting is not always about the end product but the journey getting there. whether successful or not.

x2 i want to go to Russia on big bores dime lol...hmm dose he think we are all rich?

[Barracuda]

Anything over two years and alone is legal.

They do stress that they wish you to take only males as the female mortality rate cannot exceed 30% without impacting the allowable harvest.
They do infact ask you to look over the info in gender and bear identification and really do your best to take a male.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/leh_10_11.pdf

this is from the LEH


There is no open season on a less then two year old grizzly bear or any grizzly bear in its company.

Do not shoot any grizzly bear when observed in a family unit
Hunters are requested to select a male grizzly bear.




There is no request to only shoot large bears or perfect coated bears that i can find :lol:.

[Lillypuff]

About 15 years ago I shot a small 5 foot boar on a draw in the Kootenays, felt horrible thought it was bigger but I was not happy, it was the last time I could make it up to the region on the last day. I got a rug made and I do love it and it is a trophy to me. Although I am not proud of it, it was a boar and by itself. It brings back many fond memerories but it is embarrassing considering I would never shoot a black bear that small. I would never shoot it again. But I do have a beautiful Grizzly rug

[Barracuda]

i am curious as to what made you embarrassed?
Is it the fact that you were concerned of what others might say /think ?

was it representative of the bears in that locale ?

Just like some deer in certain regions will always have little itty bitty racks and big bodies thanks to only harvesting the big antlered deer and removeing those genes from the pool.
Some bears just plain do not get big no matter how old they are.

the circumstances surrounding your bear lent themselves to you choosing to take the shot. At that moment you decided that it was the bear for you . No need to be embarrassed .

[Slee]

i am curious as to what made you embarrassed?
Is it the fact that you were concerned of what others might say /think ?

was it representative of the bears in that locale ?

Just like some deer in certain regions will always have little itty bitty racks and big bodies thanks to only harvesting the big antlered deer and removeing those genes from the pool.
Some bears just plain do not get big no matter how old they are.

the circumstances surrounding your bear lent themselves to you choosing to take the shot. At that moment you decided that it was the bear for you . No need to be embarrassed .

X2

favorite quote from The Old Man and the Boy (http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aapr_oldman_boy.htm), by Robert Ruark



"Hunting is the noblest sport yet devised by the hand of man. There were mighty hunters in the Bible, and all the caves where the cave men lived are full of carvings of assorted game the head of the house drug home. If you hunt to eat, or hunt for sport for something fine, something that will make you proud, and make you remember every single detail of the day you found him and shot him, that is good too."



Some scientists say that systematically hunting the most mature members of an animal population can adversely affect its gene pool. This will reduce the average size of future generations and threaten the ability of the species to thrive in its habitat. Researchers claim repeated hunting over many years has gradually diminished the size of the Kodiak bears of Alaska

[DevilDog77]

Well boys...hopefully north bound this thursday, wish me luck.