Force Fetch or Helping a dog to "hold it"

[dakotawinters]

How does one make it fun.... dog fetches fine but then throws object at my feet when she brings it back? How do you perfect the "hold"....

I've tried bumpers, wood, not too sure where to go from here. She will retrieve she just wont do the hand off.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[huntingfamily]

Rather than bore you with my poor explanation, I will refer you to some decent articles on the subject from the Dobbs Training Library:

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/pdj09.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rjpart1.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj19.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/pdj41.html

I have used variations of these techniques, and they do work. But I have always continued on with the complete trained retrieve after the "Hold" training is done.

Good luck,
hf

[dutchie]

How does one make it fun.... dog fetches fine but then throws object at my feet when she brings it back? How do you perfect the "hold"....

I've tried bumpers, wood, not too sure where to go from here. She will retrieve she just wont do the hand off.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I do not think that Force fetch is suppose to be a fun event for a dog or an owner. With a force fetch you are making the dog do what you want, when you want, and under your control.

I would recommend getting the tri-tronics DVD on the FF. It will guide you though the process and will give you tips and tricks. The literature is also good to read so you know what you are getting yourself into.

It is mentally straining on you and your dog... be prepared to be met by resistance (especially in the first week or 2) It is a tough and trying process on both you and the dog... but when it is completed you will have a new dog.

Dutchie

[dutchie]

Rather than bore you with my poor explanation, I will refer you to some decent articles on the subject from the Dobbs Training Library:

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/pdj09.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rjpart1.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/rj19.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/pointing/pdj41.html

I have used variations of these techniques, and they do work. But I have always continued on with the complete trained retrieve after the "Hold" training is done.

Good luck,
hf

Thanks for the links... I have never head about Dobbs before, great info.

[Lots'oLabs]

Dutchie is right. Force fetch isn't the most enjoyable aprt of early training, but for sure the most important part. Each dog is different.One of our dogs completed in as little as 2 weeks. The longest was 9 gruelling weeks from beginning to completing it with collar conditioning.

Have you thought about the offer of a training seminar that Bopper posted? The cost was minor. Only enough to cover his expenses. Not sure where you live but this would would be the most productive way to get you started.

Books and videos are great, especially for brushing up once you have an understanding of the process.
Nothing beats hands on learning. Every dog is different and reacts differently to pressure. The measure of success is how you react to their pressure response and unfortunately that can't be learned from a book or video.
My suggestion is that you look back and find Boppers thread.

Good luck,
Deb

[Jimsue]

I'v had quite a few labs, I'v never FF one of them. I know that unless you are a very special person, you could run into a pile of problems, timeing is everything. it's best left to a pro.

This is just my oppinion.

[SPEYMAN]

Unless you are going to Trial this dog,why worry about it?You or a Trainer could do damage rather than correct a non issue.As long as the dog brings back the game and is otherwise obedient, I can't see any reason to spend the time,effort and frustration.

[dakotawinters]

I did clicker training with just the retrieve part she does that fine.... but then she brings what ever item it is back and drops it. Just cant seem to get her to hold on. I will check out the links thanks.

I'm not by any means being lazy i just heard its part of the next level of field trials I figured I best get started on training it.

[labguy]

Unless you are going to Trial this dog,why worry about it?You or a Trainer could do damage rather than correct a non issue.As long as the dog brings back the game and is otherwise obedient, I can't see any reason to spend the time,effort and frustration.


Please don't take this personally but this type of response is a perfect reason why the original poster SHOULD take his dog the that training seminar..........and so should you Speyman so you'll get some sort of idea of what this is all about. No offence man but this comment is just wrong on so many levels.

The man putting this on has 45 years experience training retrievers successfully. He's worked with some of the best dogs in retriever history. He's put multiple titles on multiple dogs.

FF isn't about making the dog fetch. It's about training, working with the dog, teaching the dog to turn off pressure and engineering some building blocks to expand on for more advanced training and concepts.

People who say you don't have to FF your dog to get a good retriever don't know what they're talking about...........with all due respect.

Sorry for being so blunt but that's the way it is. For my money an opinion thats based on years of experience and training hundreds of successful retrievers is far more valid than an opinion from someone whose maybe trained 3 or 4 dogs..............................really.

Honestly this is the trouble with these forums............anybody can give an opinion based on little or no knowlege and the person reading it has no way of knowing what opinion has validity and what one is out to lunch.

Take your dog to the seminar if you're serious about learning something about training retrievers.

If after seeing what some of the dogs can do that have been properly FF'd and trained, you can still say that FF is not a necessary component to owing a reliable retriever then I'll apologize for my rant.....hell, I'll even give you back your money out of my own pocket.

[huntingfamily]

I agree, Bud.
All you may need now is to teach the proper Hold. Be patient and persistant and you will be fine. Unless you're the type that comes unglued easily. :wink:
Retrieve training shouldn't be somewhat challenging for either of you until you are making the dog actually move forward and take the object. But you won't be doing that with just the Hold concept. Hold can be thought of as just another step of obedience training. I would recommend starting on an elevated platform such as the training table. I can give you plans for a table with ramps if you need them, but they are simple and readily available.
BTW, I used to own a Britt and have many fond memories of him. Including retrieving geese from okanagan lake during the late goose season. I have various pics of him sitting on snow/ice and holding geese that he had just retrieved. Pretty funny to see as he wasn't really a large britt and the geese look as big as him.

Cheers,
hf





I did clicker training with just the retrieve part she does that fine.... but then she brings what ever item it is back and drops it. Just cant seem to get her to hold on. I will check out the links thanks.

I'm not by any means being lazy i just heard its part of the next level of field trials I figured I best get started on training it.

[Jimsue]

Just incase there was a missunderstanding, I'v never ff any of my labs , but they were all ff by a pro.

[britman101]

Getting a pointing dog to retrieve can be a chore. Advantage to the Brittany is that it has been bred into the dog to do retrieval work. What you have to do as the owner is to fine tune it. Good information has been passed on to you in this thread.May want to use a long check cord to use as a tool to get your dog back to the spot you want the bird delivered. Also remember during field tests prep work, to be relaxed and also be persistent. By that I mean to be relaxed and work with old fido to get that bird back to you. If you get anxious or annoyed the dog will pick up on that , and maybe that is the time you may want to focus on another exercise for the dog.

[dakotawinters]

I have broken the "retrieve' into several different pieces. The actual retrieve, the bringing back of the item and then actually holding onto the item. I have been sitting in a chair and getting her to hold it. This seems to be working. And the clicker training for the actual picking it up and bringing it to me. She seems to have found her desire to retrieve again. I think i was getting to stressed about the whole thing. I also put my other dog away, well training her. As she would just drop the item and let him bring it back... as he has an amazing desire to retrieve. I think he may have been the reason she was dropping it. As he was putting quite a bit of pressure on her. Thanks for all the help! I can't wait for the two field tests in Sept. that we are going to. Should be a productive weekend.

[branthunter]

I have broken the "retrieve' into several different pieces. The actual retrieve, the bringing back of the item and then actually holding onto the item. I have been sitting in a chair and getting her to hold it. This seems to be working. And the clicker training for the actual picking it up and bringing it to me. She seems to have found her desire to retrieve again. I think i was getting to stressed about the whole thing. I also put my other dog away, well training her. As she would just drop the item and let him bring it back... as he has an amazing desire to retrieve. I think he may have been the reason she was dropping it. As he was putting quite a bit of pressure on her. Thanks for all the help! I can't wait for the two field tests in Sept. that we are going to. Should be a productive weekend.

Absolutely right to get your other dog out of the training picture. Performing in the presence of other dogs is one of the hardest things to train your dog to do.FF training isn't all that difficult in my view as long as patience and affection rule the day. And keep your training sessions short. Better 3 x 5 minute sessions than one of 15 minutes.