View Full Version : Should non residents have unlimited access to our fish?
Krico
05-19-2010, 09:53 PM
Non-residents and non resident aliens can simply purchase a license (for only a few $$$ more than us residents) and whichever surcharge stamps they wish, and gain the same unlimited access to fishing in BC, both saltwater and freshwater, as we the taxpayers.
Should there be limits on # of days fished in BC for non residents? Should they have smaller bag limits than residents? Should they have to hire a licensed guide? Or is this really a non-issue?
There seems to be no shortage of complaints nowadays about the overcrowding of lakes, rivers, and even saltwater fishing areas.
What do you think?
Bear Chaser
05-19-2010, 10:18 PM
It's more than a few dollars more than for BC residents. If an Albertan wants to fish a designated trout stream (not sure if that is the correct term) they pay per day approximately 2/3 the price that a BC resident pays for an annual permit to fish the same places IIRC.
In the meantime they also have to buy a non resident license and pay for camping or accomadations, meals, etc in the town they are visiting.
I shared a group campsite with a bunch of Albertans at Lake Koocanusa last summer for a few days. Several of them fished the streams and rivers in the area every day that we were there without bringing any catch back to the camp that I saw. I'd say at the very least their group dropped a grand directly into BC general revenue plus the money spent at the local farmer's market etc.
There is no doubt that Non resident fishermen have a positive impact on local economies.
SVIR-Symon
05-19-2010, 10:41 PM
Tidal is federal, so for me from Alberta to fish for halibut i pay the Canadian rate. but i believe non tidal is provincial?
Mr. Dean
05-20-2010, 12:29 AM
....unlimited access to fishing....
They're limited, it's called (retention/possession) limits.
- Can't say as I buy the over crowding issue, as being an issue. There's TONS of untapped water out there, might be time for some new exploring and accept the fact that things change.
- Hard sell wanting to "up the anti" on a Canadian Citizen living in Dundurn Saskatchewan, that holds equal rights to a resource that he shares with a bloke living on the WC beach (regards to Federal Fishery).
The ONLY time I would insist on seeing restrictions is IF there's valid concern for conservation; this is not the case stated in the OP's post.
I think canadians should be equal. What I pay an Albertan pays. Same as if I went to Alberta. I should not have to pay more. For fishing only. Regulations on hunting that is differant and i wont get into why i think so.
Now Americans coming up, That is a differant story. Having worked in the Sport industry I have seen my fair share of them coming up with all there food all there booze and there rv's and only buy fuel. On top of this I have seen them over limit and abuse in other ways.
I cannot go to Neah Bay and fish out of my own boat. I need a guide. I think the same should apply here. A non Canadian alien should have to hire a guide to fish in our waters. This at its base would creat jobs and bring in money to the small towns like Ucluelet etc. and prevent Illegal fishing.
I hate pitting Canadian against Canadian, Gear fisher against Fly fisher, Rifle hunter against bow hunter and the ever argued road hunter against still hunter. We gain nothing from this but arguements. I travel in Canada to fish ( or have ) I have been to the Yukon twice and Alberta once. I am Canadian and this is Canada I have, In my eyes a right to safely recreate in Canada. And pay what all Canadians pay.
johnes50
05-20-2010, 08:32 AM
'Mericans maybe, but not us Canucks.
I wouldn't want restricted access if I went somewhere else in Canada to fish. Generally Canadians know and follow the rules, but When 'Merican's come here they think it's a big free-for-all and get real greedy real fast.
There was a real problem in Renfrew with 'Mericans coming up in their motorhomes and fishing and canning as much as they could. The guy would fish and the wife would can all day long. They went home with cases and cases of fish. Finally, the Feds put a stop to it. Greedy buggers.
Walking Buffalo
05-20-2010, 10:04 AM
Compare BC freshwater to Alberta.
Alberta: resident and non-resident Canadians pay the same for a fishing licence ($25.66) with the same regulatons applying to all. Many BC guides from the EK bring their clients over to the AB East slopes, no extra charge payable to the province outside of licences.
B.C:
Licence Type Resident
✚ Non-Resident ✚ Non-Resident Alien ✚
Basic Licences
Annual Angling Licence $ 36 $ 55
One Day Angling Licence
✽ $ 10 $ 20
Eight Day Angling Licence
✽ $ 20 $ 36
Conservation Surcharges
Steelhead $ 25 $ 60
Non-Tidal Salmon $ 15 $ 30
Kootenay Lake Rainbow Trout $ 10 $ 20
Shuswap Lake Rainbow Trout $ 10 $ 20
Shuswap Lake Char $ 10 $ 20
White Sturgeon Conservation Licences
Annual $25 $60
One Day $8 $15
Eight Day $15 $30
Classified Waters Licences
Classified Waters Licence (annual) $ 15
Class I Waters Licence
◆ $ 40/day
Class II Waters Licence
◆ $ 20/day
BC is already limiting access for non-residents through higher basic licence, conservation surcharge, conservation licence, and Classified Waters licence fees.
Classified Waters licences put further restrictions on non-residents.
I live in Alberta now, I have property on Shuswap Lake (35 years), lived in the OK for half my life, used to go to the BC coast for salmon and winter steelhead. Now, my steelhead and salmon fishing is all done in Alaska. I prefer not to support the BC government's concept of restricting non-resident Canadians fishing through higher fees and limited access. My fishing vacation money now goes elswhere.
And I am still happy to meet BC anglers in Alberta, having the same rights and rules to fish here. :)
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 10:25 AM
I certainly think that Canadians should be able to fish all they want. It would really suck if going "outside" BC if I was going to fish with my family back in MB if I was restricted to the number of days I could fish.
I don't do much freshie fishing here as I am a 99.99% saltchuck guy so I will speak to that.
As for Americans; yes some do come up with everything possible from down south, but I can' necessarily blame then as their "staples" of food, booze etc are cheaper at home. They do have to buy some groceries up here with respect to produce etc. You do have to remember too that many do not have the big motorhome and there are a LOT of Americans that DO come up and spend their $$$ in Canada. There are LOTS of Americans and others that do come up and also contribute to the economy in booking guides, lodges etc up here. I would think when our dollar was much weaker you would see more CDN products purchased by the "road travellers" who come up but with our dollar close to par (not this morning) they too want to save some $$$ and spending money they don't have to doesn't always make sense.
I don't have an issue letting them fish up here without "number of days" restricitons at all. I have seen CDN's mopping up and overfishing just as much as I have Americans on the WCVI; and "yes" I have called it in. There is a group of CDN's who are in Kyuquot most years I am there that camp on the beach with their 3 boats (6 guys) and they bring in 3 HUGE chest freezers that get loaded right up. I am sure they are abusing their limits as 3 freezers worth for 6 guys is a LOT of fish.
One other thing to remember is here in Canada we get first crack at a TON of American fish swimming by our province en route to rivers in Washinton and Oregon. :wink:
If they stop shooting "Canada Geese" south of the border I will stop catching their "Columbian River fish" and other springers heading south. :wink:
Good arguement but,
I know Canadians poach as well, and it all should be delt with. But at least they are Canadian. ( now if that isnt contraversial!)
I still think they should hve to be guided. Sounds like you may work on the water or at least spend Good time on it. How many WN #'s do you see? Not counting the poaching because i dont think they are more proned to then an Albertan or otherwise. We need the economic gain.
On a side note this is not a "Heated" isseu with me just one I have interests and friends in
Gateholio
05-20-2010, 11:15 AM
Just charge non Canadians far more for their licenses etc. Help them pay for more programs.
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 11:51 AM
Good arguement but, I know Canadians poach as well, and it all should be delt with. But at least they are Canadian. ( now if that isnt contraversial!)
Ha ha.....ya it is controversial as it shouldn't matter who it is poaching. :mrgreen:
I still think they should hve to be guided. Sounds like you may work on the water or at least spend Good time on it. How many WN #'s do you see? Not counting the poaching because i dont think they are more proned to then an Albertan or otherwise. We need the economic gain.
I don't work on the water.....I wish I did but I do spend a LOT of time out there. Unfortunately I don't spend too much time paying attention to WN #'s as I am usually just focussed on taking in the view, the company, the fish and a "pop" or two.
I did not realize that if I want to fish in US waters that I need to hire a guide and can't just drag my boat down there, purchase a license and hit the chuck. I am totally oblivious to the laws in Washington, Oregon or even California.
As for them "having" to be guided; I don't have an issue for them not being guided. If they "had" to be it would be great for the CDN guides but I also think you would see a notable decrease in the numbers of Americans coming up here to spend their $$$. No sense in dragging your boat up here if you have to hire a guide. You also have to bear in mind that there are US citizens that run their boats up here from US waters and that includes those not here "just" to fish. I spend a few weeks every summer cruising up through Desolation Sound and further North and there are a ton of US boats as well as those registered in many other places. There would be a notable increase in enforcement required all up and down the coast; not that this is a bad thing but it would be needed.
There are those that "have" boats that just want to be able to use them in arguably the most beautiful area in North Amercia to cruise, fish, sightsee etc. Those that don't have boats will still come up here provided that the continued decrease due to the economy in the US starts it's rebound. They will be the ones hiring the guides and even some who have their own boats may hire a guide for a day or two if they have never been to an area and what to get the "lay of the land".
Just charge non Canadians far more for their licenses etc. Help them pay for more programs.
This I do agree with wholeheartedly. It applies with hunting licenses for non-residents and I don't see an issue (those non-Canadians used to the current system "may") with charging them notably more than it costs for me to purchase a tidal license. This I think is one of the best things we can do up here in the short term as our "programs" need some serious, serious help.
All in all, I think we have much bigger problems to tackle in Canada with respect to our fish stocks than worrying about keeping the US boat owners out of our waters for recreational fishing. Remember....a large portion of the prolific runs of Chinooks seen last year and hopefully this year on the WCVI are headed back to their native spawning rivers in the US where they are having huge returns compared to Canadian rivers. I do realize the fish aren't stamped with a "Made in the USA" stamp on their bellies but it is well known that these are US bound fishies.
All in all, I think we have much bigger problems to tackle in Canada with respect to our fish stocks than worrying about keeping the US boat owners out of our waters for recreational fishing. Remember....a large portion of the prolific runs of Chinooks seen last year and hopefully this year on the WCVI are headed back to their native spawning rivers in the US where they are having huge returns compared to Canadian rivers. I do realize the fish aren't stamped with a "Made in the USA" stamp on their bellies but it is well known that these are US bound fishies.[/quote]
This is most definatly true. The other was just the point of this thread. What you have touched here is a whole new thread and a whole new arguement. One that can go bad in a hurry.
I fully aggree charge more for licenses for Non Canadian anglers at a minimum. Keep it equal across Canada to Angel.
And our fishery has larger problems then American Pressuer
:lol: Hunters talking about fish management. Good one. Maybe we should give Albertans the same privileges to our sheep? BC fish are BC fish. Everyone else should have to pay more. We have some of the last great fisheries in the world, and I'm not talking about our crap hole stocked lakes. The Skeena Quality Waters Management Strategy was supposed to take a lot of these things into consideration, but the result was that basically whoever yelled the loudest got their way. There should have been rod day limits put in place and an example set so that there could have been forward progress in other areas of the province on this issue. We're not talking about bashing your limit here....the vast majority of anglers that travel to BC are flyfishermen and the majority of those are nearly all the time C&R anglers. Make em pay to play! But whatever, BC fisheries are mental anyway, they're still allowing a bait fishery for Thompson steelhead which are about to be listed under SARA.
Alberta has been doing it wrong for years. Their trout fisheries are far better than ours and I pay half the price to fish them? What a joke that is. They should be charging $50/year for a NR-Can and $20/day for rivers like the Bow. People would pay for it and all of a sudden there might actually be some money to fund more fisheries initiatives. But you've got too many old guard idiots over there that don't see the use in funding organizations like the ACA because they don't know why it's important to monitor amphibian populations instead of just dumping more non native species across the countryside. I sure am ranty today :biggrin:
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 12:11 PM
:lol: Hunters talking about fish management. Good one.
Hey.....hunters talk about a lot of other way more odd things on this forum. :mrgreen: :wink:
Maybe we should give Albertans the same privileges to our sheep? BC fish are BC fish. Everyone else should have to pay more
Sure.....BC Fish are BC fish if they are in a BC water system. What about all those US bound fish swimming on down the West Coast of Vancouver Island? I have seen a lot of results from the "salmon head" program and there are LOTS of "US" fish that are caught by Canadian anglers in Canadian waters.:wink:
I sure am ranty today
I think you can get an ointment for that.:razz:
What about all those upper Fraser chinooks you guys bonk off the WCVI all summer, effectively extirpating runs from upper Fraser tribs? Should I charge you $30 a head for those fish? I think I should. I don't really consider people from Vancouver BCers anyway, you're just Americans in disguise. Salmon are going extinct anyway, just get over it.
Awe i knew it was you PGK nobody argues like you
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 12:39 PM
What about all those upper Fraser chinooks you guys bonk off the WCVI all summer, effectively extirpating runs from upper Fraser tribs? Should I charge you $30 a head for those fish? I think I should. I don't really consider people from Vancouver BCers anyway, you're just Americans in disguise. Salmon are going extinct anyway, just get over it.
Wow.....that's a pretty harsh "rant"; maybe you need a stronger ointment. :tongue:
What does the upper Fraser Chinooks have to do with it; I am Canadian, holding a Canadian fishing license and fishing in Canadian waters for Canadian fish as per Canadian regulations (and catching some US bound fish)?? We are talking US recreational boats coming up into Canada to fish our waters? Both US and CDN sporties are bonking fish destined for both sides of the border. I don't bonk em' all summer....I make a few treks over there and bring home just enough fish to put on the table for the year. I am on my last 2 pieces of salmon and in need of some more. In Kyuquot last year I released a TON of fish and between my GF last year we only brought home ~6 fish after 7 days of fishin'. I asked those that I bonked where they were from but they were being a bit "tight lipped".
What right do "you" have to charge "me" for fish I catch in Canadian waters as a taxpaying Canadian citizen?? If you are wanting a complete shut down of salmon fishing off our West Coast to protect "our" native stocks then that's a topic for a whole new thread.:?
Maybe we need to ensure every boat fishing up and down the British Columbia coast has an on board DNA detection system??:)
I agree with Gate in that we should charge non-Canadians a higher license fee and generate some revenue towards our severely lacking programs in Canada.
With poise, dignity, and an assload of sarcasm? Sorry, my bad. Probly offended someone with that last post. Stop killing all the salmon you dirty rats? Sorry! Off topic. Yes!!!! Hell YES!!! NR-Can and NRA should pay more to fish here! A lot more!
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 12:43 PM
With poise, dignity, and an assload of sarcasm? Sorry, my bad. Probly offended someone with that last post. Stop killing all the salmon you dirty rats? Sorry! Off topic. Yes!!!! Hell YES!!! NR-Can and NRA should pay more to fish here! A lot more!
LOL.......I gotcha.....I have a notably elevated degree of sarcasm as well. :wink:
Well, seriously, stop killing all my damn upper Fraser springs :| Just cause DFO sez you can, doesn't mean you should. And why give a free ride to the rest of Canada? That helps nobody. Funding for fish mgmt has to come from license dollars. If we start giving out free rides, you can watch the quality go down!!!
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 12:55 PM
Well, seriously, stop killing all my damn upper Fraser springs :| Just cause DFO sez you can, doesn't mean you should.
Hey....they're "mine" too. If I take a few for the table then so be it. You should be more concerned with the guys slayin' them in the local waters around the lower mainland as there is little question once they are in here as to where they are headin'.
And why give a free ride to the rest of Canada? That helps nobody. Funding for fish mgmt has to come from license dollars. If we start giving out free rides, you can watch the quality go down!!
I think the license fees should notably higher for those Canadians outside of BC, graduating up to those non-residents from the US and further abroad. They do it with hunting licenses so why not fishing?
Stop killin' my grizzly bears........they're endangered dontchaknow?
There's probably more grizzles in the upper Fraser than there are chinooks. How effed up is that?
MB_Boy
05-20-2010, 01:19 PM
There's probably more grizzles in the upper Fraser than there are chinooks. How effed up is that?
I think the Chinook are there.......it's just that they are so smart once they get there you just don't see or catch them.
They have spent years avoiding predators in the wide open ocean from seals, to sea lions to whales to lice....they then avoid the commercial nets/lines and thousands of sporty flashy lures being dragged around in the salt...they then get by the seals and whales again around the mouth, not to mention the local sporties and commercials....they avoid the bar guys and native nets as they move up the Fraser.....by time they get to you in the Upper Fraser they are so well edumucated they pass through like ghosts into the "spirit world".
Maybe just maybe you shouldn't be chucking that "Red Devil" spoon trying to catch them and resort to some more "salmonish" techniques?:razz:
GoatGuy
05-20-2010, 02:11 PM
There's probably more grizzles in the upper Fraser than there are chinooks. How effed up is that?
Back from the great white north already?
Friday friday friday, for 10 days, then gone until moose season. :mrgreen: Love it here
GoatGuy
05-20-2010, 02:25 PM
Friday friday friday, for 10 days, then gone until moose season. :mrgreen: Love it here
Are you starting to sssss stutter now?
Overly excited about getting on a plane tomorrow and landing in the middle of our best stonefly hatch of the year. Plus I get to get drunk and be officially edumacated like my hero jesse 'james' zeman! :lol:
GoatGuy
05-20-2010, 03:00 PM
Overly excited about getting on a plane tomorrow and landing in the middle of our best stonefly hatch of the year. Plus I get to get drunk and be officially edumacated like my hero jesse 'james' zeman! :lol:
Who's we and where are we going?
I think in this case the plurality best refers to the region. And I'm not taking you anywhere you damn heathen!
GoatGuy
05-20-2010, 03:28 PM
I think in this case the plurality best refers to the region. And I'm not taking you anywhere you damn heathen!
I see, a 'secret spot'.
dawn2dusk
05-20-2010, 03:50 PM
I know an island off Nootka Island that is owned by some individuals from the US. THey fly in potential clients and take them fishing. THey fly or boat everything they need in from WA. They process the fish on site. Who knows how much they catch. But I dont think they are helping our economy in any way. Kinda erks me a little.
But then again I have been catching their hatchery chinook in CAN water all winter.
Tough issue. My Dad was born in BC and lived here for over 50 years, but now lives in Arizona. He should be able to fish with my brother and I every year when he comes up to visit. If we ban all non residents, even the Canadian citizens it seems like a bit much.
I think we should just make it tough enough to discourage causal abuse but not so much for Canadians living abroad. That way people like my Dad are not penalized too much.
Tough issue. My Dad was born in BC and lived here for over 50 years, but now lives in Arizona. He should be able to fish with my brother and I every year when he comes up to visit. If we ban all non residents, even the Canadian citizens it seems like a bit much.
I think we should just make it tough enough to discourage causal abuse but not so much for Canadians living abroad. That way people like my Dad are not penalized too much.
That was his choice though. He moved away, you cant draw differant lines for differant circomstances. Not to sound harsh im sure you arent alone.
All aside though when Pa comes to visit i think the extra license fee wont stop him from a tack or two!
Blair
05-21-2010, 08:19 PM
When you look at what they pay to come here, fly, drive, stay in hotels, fishing camps, eat, etc., I think none of them (non-Canadians) would care if they had to pay a couple hundred dollars extra for a fishing licence. That money should be specifically set aside to be spent on fisheries enhancement projects.
Also, enforcement is important. I have seen Americans in large RVs living for weeks on Vancouver Island fishing and getting a limit every day and canning tons of fish. Whatever happened to the possesion limit?
Blair
05-21-2010, 08:23 PM
[
One other thing to remember is here in Canada we get first crack at a TON of American fish swimming by our province en route to rivers in Washinton and Oregon. :wink:
If they stop shooting "Canada Geese" south of the border I will stop catching their "Columbian River fish" and other springers heading south. :wink:[/quote]
Don't forget about how many Canadian River fish are intercepted in Alaska!
CanuckShooter
05-29-2010, 09:13 AM
When you look at what they pay to come here, fly, drive, stay in hotels, fishing camps, eat, etc., I think none of them (non-Canadians) would care if they had to pay a couple hundred dollars extra for a fishing licence. That money should be specifically set aside to be spent on fisheries enhancement projects.
Also, enforcement is important. I have seen Americans in large RVs living for weeks on Vancouver Island fishing and getting a limit every day and canning tons of fish. Whatever happened to the possesion limit?
Or you could just keep raising the prices for tags and licenses until they quit coming altogether. A couple of hundred for a fishing license?? Gawd how to pander to the wealthy, keep the pooo boys at home and just let in the blue bloods...:icon_frow...catch them canning~$50K fine~seems fair.
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