BCFW ATV liability insurance

[lightmag]

In case you didn't know if you join the BC wildlife foundation for $25/year, there is a cool bonus to becoming a member. It includes $2,000,000 liability insurance if you are doing anything that revolves around hunting, fishing or shooting firearms legally. There is a lot of talk surrounding Conservation enforcing the fact that we need liability insurance while using forestry and logging roads or they can fine us up to $600 for not having liability. Anyways long story short, people are joining the BCWF for about $25 yearly and are covered under BCWF's liability insurance, all we do is carry a telescopic fishing rod and some lures proving that we are on our way to a fishing hole and we are covered and they can't fine us. Here is more info, this is awesome and cheap. better than $100+/year and your supporting a great cause.
http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/committees/insurance/information/Understanding%20Your%20Insurance%20Website%20versi on%202010-2.pdf

[Iron Glove]

Yes, it is a good "bonus" with the BCWF membership but remember it's only valid whilst on your hunting or fishing related trips NOT while out joy riding. It would be interesting to be stopped and asked for proof of insurance and you produce your BCWF card and then be asked to "prove" that you are on a hunting or fishing trip.
To be safe, get the optional coverage that BCWF offers or get it from a private Insurer.

[bigwhiteys]

Have we ever got a straight answer to this one...?

To be safe I just buy the insurance from Capri. $125/year.

Carl

[Darksith]

you know whats gonna happen don't you? Some boys are gonna have the BCWF insurance, they are gonna tear something up and get in trouble, the insurance will cover it and then disappear b/c it just went broke.

[.330 Dakota]

Yes, it is a good "bonus" with the BCWF membership but remember it's only valid whilst on your hunting or fishing related trips NOT while out joy riding. It would be interesting to be stopped and asked for proof of insurance and you produce your BCWF card and then be asked to "prove" that you are on a hunting or fishing trip.
To be safe, get the optional coverage that BCWF offers or get it from a private Insurer.

My reply would be real simple..I am innocent until proven guilty so you try and prove I am NOT on a fishing or hunting trip. The onus of proof is on the C.O. not on you

[Iron Glove]

My reply would be real simple..I am innocent until proven guilty so you try and prove I am NOT on a fishing or hunting trip. The onus of proof is on the C.O. not on you

And who knows, that just might work - I don't know if it's a reverse onus situation or not.
But, if it's out of hunting season, there's a fishing closure at the time (or you are 100km from water ) and you are just heading to the store to get beer and gas, it might be a hard sell. :mrgreen:
Then, not only do you have to convince the C.O., if you actually had an accident on the way, you might also have a hard sell with BCWF's Insurers too.

[camelsfoot]

Would scouting or preparing for a hunt be covered?

[Phil]

I've never been 100% confident in the BCWF policy either as there have been a few disputes as to whether or not COs consider it valid. This season I bought insurance from Oasis Insurance. With a BCWF membership I got one million third party liability for $100.

[Phil]

Would scouting or preparing for a hunt be covered?


You have to be carying a rifle or a fishing rod with valid licences. If you are stopped by a CO and are thought to be hunting or fishing out of season you may have a pile of other charges to explain your way out of depending on the good nature of the CO.

[Barracuda]

we got a letter explaining that we have insurance on an atv or boat (up to 125hp i think) . it was pretty clear if i recal saying that we were covered when engaged in hunting and fishing. Not sure if scouting would cut it .

[MuleyMadness]

The insurance policy info is laid out pretty clearly on the BCWF and it does cover us while hunting and fishing. As this is a hunting site that ends all.discussion for our purposes period. If you want to do other stuff on your atv then you need the other insurance period. You can piss around and say you are hunting or fishing, but when the rubber meets the road and you claim that you are committing insurance fraud which is an indictable offence. Your call, but for god's sake people stop beating this horse already...its been nothing but a pile of bones for a long time now.

[Huntergurl]

Read the fine print boys, last time I read their policy it only covers you if you are on "private" land. most of where we all ride is on "public" land. Hunting or fishing aside, you are NOT insured if you are on public land. Get the insurance from Capri.

[Barracuda]

here is the explanation of the policy from BCWF .

you are covered if you are hunting or fishing as long as you are on non public roads and fsrs .

Remember some FSR require that you have regular ICBC insurance as they are considered public roads so as long as you are not on one of those then it seems like you are fine.

http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/committees/insurance/information/Understanding%20Your%20Insurance%20Website%20versi on%202010-2.pdf

[Fisher-Dude]

Read the fine print boys, last time I read their policy it only covers you if you are on "private" land. most of where we all ride is on "public" land. Hunting or fishing aside, you are NOT insured if you are on public land. Get the insurance from Capri.

Incorrect. Forest service roads are private, not public, and the requirement for 3rd party is on FSRs. The displays at the BCWF convention this weekend specifically covered FSRs in their range of insurance.

BTW, the COs I have spoken to this about don't give two hoots about making you prove that the fishing rod you're carrying can't be used until you reach a lake 100 km away - they just want to see your BCWF/gun club card and send you on your way. They have better things to do.

[Huntergurl]

Incorrect. Forest service roads are private, not public, and the requirement for 3rd party is on FSRs. The displays at the BCWF convention this weekend specifically covered FSRs in their range of insurance.

BTW, the COs I have spoken to this about don't give two hoots about making you prove that the fishing rod you're carrying can't be used until you reach a lake 100 km away - they just want to see your BCWF/gun club card and send you on your way. They have better things to do.


Wilderness Forest Service Roads are roads that are not defined as public or industrial use and where the responsibility for maintenance is not transferred or funded on a user-pay basis. Provision of access is not a ministry priority on wilderness roads.

This may be what you were talking about, there are also Industrial fsr's, and community fsr's. being on either of those will void your insurance.
Hope you can tell the difference and don't have to go on one to get to the other. insurance companies will go out of their way not to pay out a claim
and if they can prove that you were on public land you are not covered.

[Barracuda]

I think bcfw also offers additional insurance for recreational quadding.


what the insurance that is the basic one seems to be saying is that if ICBC does not require you to be plated and lisenced you are covered if you are hunting and fishing.

A quick phonecall and about 7 hours on hold should be able to tell you which roads require a plate :mrgreen:.

[Marlin375]

Wilderness Forest Service Roads are roads that are not defined as public or industrial use and where the responsibility for maintenance is not transferred or funded on a user-pay basis. Provision of access is not a ministry priority on wilderness roads.

This may be what you were talking about, there are also Industrial fsr's, and community fsr's. being on either of those will void your insurance.
Hope you can tell the difference and don't have to go on one to get to the other. insurance companies will go out of their way not to pay out a claim
and if they can prove that you were on a public road you are not covered.

I fixed it for ya.

I think you might be getting public road and public land confused. Were a public road traverses public land (crown land) the public "land" starts at the edge/end of the traveled/maintained surface of the public road and so would your coverage.
There are exceptions but the way I understand it the roads that are exceptions are posted such, the Bear Main here in Kelowna is an example.

[ve7iuq]

The liability insurance from the BCWF does not cover your ATV on logging roads. Does not matter whether you are hunting or fishing.
Not covered on logging roads.

[Barracuda]

did you read the link i posted? it is the same as the letter i got from them.

[Barracuda]

i cant seem post a scan of what i just received which states that you are covered on any road where you can legally ride an unlisenced atv.

If someone wants to post it i can send it to them or if you want you can get BCFW to send it to you

[Fisher-Dude]

The liability insurance from the BCWF does not cover your ATV on logging roads. Does not matter whether you are hunting or fishing.
Not covered on logging roads.

Wrong. Logging roads are, for the vast majority, forest service roads. The insurance covers you on a FSR for 3rd party in case of accidents, and keeps you from a fine under Section 12 of the Forest Act.



Does this policy cover the use of an ATV?

This policy extends to cover

off road liability, for ATVs that are not licensed or required to be


licensed by ICBC on non-public roads and Forest Service Roads. Members should contact

the local motor vehicle office or the forestry service in the area of riding to obtain confirmation of

this. This coverage is only for BCWF members while engaged in hunting and fishing activities.






http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/committees/insurance/information/Understanding%20Your%20Insurance%20Website%20versi on%202010-2.pdf

[TPK]

I saw the same display at the BCWF convention and still am not convinced, even after I talked briefly with the BCWF Insurance contact there. I will be forwarding some questions for clarification.

Some of our Rod and Gun Club Members have indicated they talked with HUB and understood the insurance to only cover you on un-numbered FSR's that were no longer maintained. If it is a maintained road or a numbered (or lettered) spur road off of it, you weren't covered.

Also keep in mind that each BCWF affiliated club can have different options on their insurance, we do $5,000,000 third party liability. We print the policy number and amount of liability on the back of each years membership card.

I sure chuckled when I saw Bigwhiteys reply back at post #3 .. so true.

[aggiehunter]

It's gotta be good for $4...

[smoothbor]

alright, I was fined in the east koots for using my atv on a fsr road by a CO. i showed him my BCWF card, and was told that a copy of the policy must be carried the card is not good enough, the policy must say atv use while hunting fishing and shooting activities, a card and policy number is not good enough and neither is your local gun club membership card unless you have the stinkin peice of paper explaining the coverage, just cause it says hunting fishing and shooting activities on whatever you have if it dosent say ATV in front of it your gettin it, I know have purchased through ICBC 125 a year and if you are interested the three of us got our fines in the paliser river country and it was 345 each!!!!!

[peashooter]

why do people spew bullsheet when they do not have any idea what they are talking about.

[peashooter]

at least fd can back it up with a link to the real deal.

[Benthos]

alright, I was fined in the east koots for using my atv on a fsr road by a CO. i showed him my BCWF card, and was told that a copy of the policy must be carried the card is not good enough, the policy must say atv use while hunting fishing and shooting activities, a card and policy number is not good enough and neither is your local gun club membership card unless you have the stinkin peice of paper explaining the coverage, just cause it says hunting fishing and shooting activities on whatever you have if it dosent say ATV in front of it your gettin it, I know have purchased through ICBC 125 a year and if you are interested the three of us got our fines in the paliser river country and it was 345 each!!!!!


I hope you fought that ticket in court

[SPEYMAN]

The BCWF says to contact the local Forestry to determine which FSRs this applies to.Why?They claim you are covered when Hunting or Fishing.

Would it not be reasonable for the Insurer to make it very clear as to when,where and what is required to be in compliance with the regulations and laws that apply to ATVs.

There are different FSRs,some are considered Public Roads.All motorized vehicles are required to have a minimum $200,000.00 Liability Insurance and the driver must have a valid drivers license.

If FSRs were not Public Roads, then there would not be a requirement to have a valid drivers license or liability insurance.

Come on BCWF,be fair to your members and get the correct information in a clear form so there is no confusion.From this forum, there members are obviously confused.

[TPK]

why do people spew bullsheet when they do not have any idea what they are talking about.

I don't see anyone spewing bullshit, simply passing along what their experiance has been and what they have heard... but thanks for the constructive comment.

[Barracuda]

The BCWF says to contact the local Forestry to determine which FSRs this applies to.Why?They claim you are covered when Hunting or Fishing.

Would it not be reasonable for the Insurer to make it very clear as to when,where and what is required to be in compliance with the regulations and laws that apply to ATVs.

There are different FSRs,some are considered Public Roads.All motorized vehicles are required to have a minimum $200,000.00 Liability Insurance and the driver must have a valid drivers license.

If FSRs were not Public Roads, then there would not be a requirement to have a valid drivers license or liability insurance.

Come on BCWF,be fair to your members and get the correct information in a clear form so there is no confusion.From this forum, there members are obviously confused.


the letter i have states that as long as the vehicle is not required to have a lisence plate it is covered on any road .

it does not matter if you have capri or any other policy if the ATV is meant to be lisenced it is not covered.

The two differnces in the policies offered by BCFW are one is for hunting and fishing only and the other is for all recreation use. you are covered anywhere an unplated atv is legally allowed .



if you can figure out how to post a PDF file and let me know i will post it for you.

[Fisher-Dude]

The BCWF says to contact the local Forestry to determine which FSRs this applies to.Why?They claim you are covered when Hunting or Fishing.

Would it not be reasonable for the Insurer to make it very clear as to when,where and what is required to be in compliance with the regulations and laws that apply to ATVs.

There are different FSRs,some are considered Public Roads.All motorized vehicles are required to have a minimum $200,000.00 Liability Insurance and the driver must have a valid drivers license.

If FSRs were not Public Roads, then there would not be a requirement to have a valid drivers license or liability insurance.

Come on BCWF,be fair to your members and get the correct information in a clear form so there is no confusion.From this forum, there members are obviously confused.

Of course, Speyman is Wayne Dreger of ATV BC, looking for members to whom he can flog insurance through THEIR partners, rather than lose business to the BCWF insurance providers. Yes Wayne, we understand insurance pooling and how you wish to promote your club's affiliates.

I'm not sure why he chooses to continually bash the BCWF rather than promote his own club - perhaps he can't stand on his club's own merits?

http://www.atvbc.ca/directors/wayne-dreger

[peashooter]

The liability insurance from the BCWF does not cover your ATV on logging roads. Does not matter whether you are hunting or fishing.
Not covered on logging roads.

This was put out there as a statement not a question, only to confuse others when it is in fact crap.

[xtremearchery]

$75/per year at Johnston Meir. Resident Hunter Assoc of BC Policy. Friends of mine got stopped and fined while hunting in the E. Koots. CO said BCWF insurance was not sufficient. Spend the $75, you'll save your self $268.00.

[smoothbor]

If you want to say that my post is BS thats fine, but we were told a card and a policy # aint gonna cut it you need the policy paper to prove your coverage through the BCWF or whoever, if you dont have it and they fine you thats the way it is and if you just keep on riding throuhgout your trip and they catch you again they will fine you again and possibly seize your ATV for a second offense, so apparently we PARKED our ATVS for remainder of our trip, if you think you have all the answers and bases covered then go ahead, I covered mine by going through ICBC and have the paperwork with me at all times.

[peashooter]

Your post was cool man, I was talking about guys who state something like they know what's up when really it's been proven then don't.

[smoothbor]

its all good man, its becomes redundant after a while, in our situation we were stopped by a CO who had already written numerous fines in that week and he was just not going to accept anything other than a policy that explains everything you need to cover your atv. And in his mind BCWF card and policy# werent gonna cut it, I like everyone else thought we were covered but apparently not.

[peashooter]

That's sucks. You should fight it. Would it be like car insurance? Could imagine getting pulled over and claiming my sticker is enough.

[Fisher-Dude]

its all good man, its becomes redundant after a while, in our situation we were stopped by a CO who had already written numerous fines in that week and he was just not going to accept anything other than a policy that explains everything you need to cover your atv. And in his mind BCWF card and policy# werent gonna cut it, I like everyone else thought we were covered but apparently not.

When was this?

[smoothbor]

i was stopped sept14 of 2009 on the lodgepole road in the paliser river, we had come throught the trail from the north white and were hunting in there for the afternoon glassin slides for the morning hunt, have been doing that trip for close to 23 years, only the second time we have run into CO's in the palliser side but every year in the north white side

[Fisher-Dude]

This must be you then:


Individual East Kootenay/Cranbrook

Forest and Range Practices Act 70/2004 12(1) $345 Operate or cause to be operated a motor vehicle or trailer on a forest

service road without required insurance
Individual East Kootenay/Cranbrook Forest and Range Practices Act 70/2004 12(1) $345 Operate or cause to be operated a motor vehicle or trailer on a forest
service road without required insurance

Of course, the legislation backs up what the CO said under S 12 (1)(b):

Liability insurance

12 (1) A person must not operate or cause to be operated a motor vehicle or trailer, other than a motor vehicle or trailer described by section 2 (5) of the Motor Vehicle Act, on a forest service road unless

(a) the driver, motor vehicle and trailer are insured under a valid and subsisting contract of accident insurance providing insurance against liability to third parties in the amount of at least $200 000, and

(b) the driver carries written evidence, supplied by the insurer, of the insurance referred to in paragraph (a), or a copy of that written evidence, and produces it, on demand, to a peace officer or an official.

[smoothbor]

lol could very well be, kinda leans towards what the CO said, we thought just like most that our BCWF cards were sufficient I also carried a membership card from our local club that carries 200,000 liability as well, i learned and this wont happen again,to bad i learned the hard way, and apparently so did a few others that day, I know the GO got hit the next day, spoke with him briefly 2 days after we got our fines. Looks like you have done some homework and checked this all out and probably have purchased the proper coverage for yourself.

[Fisher-Dude]

Proper coverage for me is BCWF membership. I don't joy ride so I'm always huntin' or fishin' with my quad.

I'll call HUB Insurance and see if I can get an insurance certificate that I can scan onto here for people to print out and carry with them and erase any doubt about the coverage.

Sounds like Visentine was in a pissy mood that week. COs around here just want to see your membership card and send you on your way.

[The Hermit]

Read the fine print boys, last time I read their policy it only covers you if you are on "private" land. most of where we all ride is on "public" land. Hunting or fishing aside, you are NOT insured if you are on public land. Get the insurance from Capri.

There you go... smart thinking. Yes I bought the Capri package last year and will again this year. Better safe then sorry.

[smoothbor]

wasnt vis I think he retired now, but it was mghee that got me and the guys, and hes always pissy, but i guess hes got a job to do

[Benthos]

he must be a dick.

you show your BCWF card, he knows that you have the 3rd party insurance, but writes you a $300 plus dollar ticket because you don't have the piece of paper with you saying a generic speal about the coverage?


sounds like he has small dick syndrome and needs to show his authority.

[SPEYMAN]

Thanks for the plug "Fisher-Dude".My only concern is for the ATV rider who gets fined for not having the valid Liability Insurance required to ride FSRs.I do not care where you obtain valid Liability Insurance,I do care and am concerned that if any party has an accident then there should be valid insurance coverage.

When purchasing Liability Insurance for your ATV,compare policies.Decide which fits your needs.The Company I chose provides for my needs.

There are only three companies that provide ATV liability coverage.ICBC,Capri and Oasis.

I find it amusing that when someone feels their argument losing validity, they resort to childish personal attacks.

I am very proud of the ATV/BC organization,the only group continuing to try and maintain your and others "right to ride" in this Province.

Wayne A. Dreger
Director ATV/BC

[Dannybuoy]

Proper coverage for me is BCWF membership. I don't joy ride so I'm always huntin' or fishin' with my quad.

I'll call HUB Insurance and see if I can get an insurance certificate that I can scan onto here for people to print out and carry with them and erase any doubt about the coverage.

Sounds like Visentine was in a pissy mood that week. COs around here just want to see your membership card and send you on your way.
Thats the way I am going to roll FD !
Although the 3 times I was stopped by CO's last year on the quad all they wanted to see was my hunting licence and check my rifle wasnt loaded .

[Fisher-Dude]

I am very proud of the ATV/BC organization,the only group continuing to try and maintain your and others "right to ride" in this Province.


The BCWF Land Use Committee is actively fighting to maintain your rights to access the backcountry.

Also, the other group I belong to, Access British Columbia, is front and centre in the battle to keep the backcountry open to recreational users. Exponential growth in membership (2700 and counting) is indicative of the importance of this group's mission to outdoorspeople. http://bcaccess.ca/

[xtremearchery]

In region 2 the CO's ask to see your 3rd party insurance. Our BCWF cards hold no water with them. As already stated, the min insurance for ATV's is $200,000. This policy is $75 at an Johnston Meir Insurance. They have offices all over BC. That is the policy which will hold up with the CO's and police. I have been fighting this issue with the BCWF for the last 5 years. If you read your membership renewal, BCWF clearly states they advice us to purchase separate ATV insurance.

[Barracuda]

bcfw clearly states that the only differnce between the policies are one is for hunting and fishing only and the other is for all recreation use. this is from the what they sent me and this has been in effect since 2008. On another note the officer can hand out any ticket they want and it is up to you to prove that it is not justified. it has been this way forever here.


"Both policies provide protection while oprerating on private land and public lands and roads where you are legally allowed to operate an inlisenced ATV"

[GoatGuy]

I am very proud of the ATV/BC organization,the only group continuing to try and maintain your and others "right to ride" in this Province.

Wayne A. Dreger
Director ATV/BC

Not quite accurate.

I've been to 4 meetings with politicians in the last couple of months in regards to atv use.

Didn't even know atv/bc existed. Glad you do. Time to get on the education thing.

[scope-bite]

wasnt vis I think he retired now, but it was mghee that got me and the guys, and hes always pissy, but i guess hes got a job to do


These days when the C.O's are spread so thin, you would think they should be focusing more attention to enforcing wildlife and habitat issues rather than dolling out ATV fines. Even more frustrating that you tried to cover the bases so you'd be covered while operating the quad.

If I were you I'd write a letter to the C.O's manager in Cranbrook as well as the chief C.O in Victoria explaining your situation and ask why it is in the C.O's interest to issue these tickets when there are far more pressing wildlife issues.I suspect they would reduce the fine if you asked nicely. $345 is ridiculous!!!

[SPEYMAN]

Goat guy,

What organization are you affiliated with?There is a coalition of stakeholders that are involved with govt. regarding this matter.Lets get on the same page and work as one.Government likes to keep the players divided.Please let me know to whom I can speak to get the ball rolling.United we stand,divided we fall.

[GoatGuy]

Goat guy,

What organization are you affiliated with?There is a coalition of stakeholders that are involved with govt. regarding this matter.Lets get on the same page and work as one.Government likes to keep the players divided.Please let me know to whom I can speak to get the ball rolling.United we stand,divided we fall.

Don't worry, we're on the same page. :wink:

ATV use isn't my thing but it keeps coming up, seems like more often than other more important things (in my mind at least).

Sometimes it comes up with BCWF stuff other times just with resident hunting or outdoor use stuff. It's the stuff politicians want to know about whether it's in a room big, small or over coffee.

Think the big issue right now is educating atv and orv users. The easiest thing for government to do is simply exclude the use.

My point was that ATV/BC wasn't the 'only group' fighting for or defending access for atv's or otherwise as stated. I was aware of Carmen's group access BC. There's undoubtdly a pile of groups doing the same thing and as the groups branch out and fight amongst themselves efficacy dwindles (if it exists).

Just like hunting, but that's another dead horse.

[pete_k]

Alot of Fish and Game clubs include a BCWF membership in the yearly fees. Mine is Oceola Fish and Game Club in Lake Country BC

[SPEYMAN]

Access to back country is not the issue.It is access by ATVs.There are a number of organizations that would have all motorized access stopped.While we support access to this Provinces back country we are concerned that some fail to address the issue that a great number of our citizens are unable to walk any distance if they can walk at all.There are miles of roads and abandoned railways that have been motorized for years, that some would have declared non motorized for their exclusive use.

These groups are the wedge.No ATVs,no hunting etc.

There are over 70,000 ATVs in this province and very few recognized ATV trails.There are thousands of miles of hiking trails your tax dollars paid for and maintain.

The recreation ATV riders of this Province must stand up and come to the table if they wish to continue being able to ride.

As this is a Hunting site I will climb off my soapbox and thanks to those that continue the fight to keep this Province open to all,no matter what seat you choose to see it from.

[wolverine]

I'd rather spend the extra $100. and know that I'm covered anytime without all the other bullshit that goes with it. I guess if you never joy ride it's a good deal. My luck there wouldn't be a lake within mile and if there was it would probably have some closure on it. I'm not a good liar. Would rather have the piece of mind knowing that I'm covered.

[Marlin375]

Access to back country is not the issue.It is access by ATVs.

If you are not familiar with Access BC's mandate you should hit the link posted above....they are ALL about maintaining the entegrity of the forest service roads that we (taxpayers) have paid to have built throughout the province and rightfully should be able to use. With motorized vehicles of all shapes and sizes.

[GoatGuy]

Access to back country is not the issue.It is access by ATVs.There are a number of organizations that would have all motorized access stopped.While we support access to this Provinces back country we are concerned that some fail to address the issue that a great number of our citizens are unable to walk any distance if they can walk at all.There are miles of roads and abandoned railways that have been motorized for years, that some would have declared non motorized for their exclusive use.

These groups are the wedge.No ATVs,no hunting etc.

There are over 70,000 ATVs in this province and very few recognized ATV trails.There are thousands of miles of hiking trails your tax dollars paid for and maintain.

The recreation ATV riders of this Province must stand up and come to the table if they wish to continue being able to ride.

As this is a Hunting site I will climb off my soapbox and thanks to those that continue the fight to keep this Province open to all,no matter what seat you choose to see it from.


If you are not familiar with Access BC's mandate you should hit the link posted above....they are ALL about maintaining the entegrity of the forest service roads that we (taxpayers) have paid to have built throughout the province and rightfully should be able to use. With motorized vehicles of all shapes and sizes.

You both made the point.

[aggiehunter]

Speyman, And the answer was "stuff"...wow....

[GoatGuy]

Speyman, And the answer was "stuff"...wow....

Drove the point home. Very few people with the same ability.

[Dannybuoy]

According to a senior CO in the WK ( who is also a BCWF member), the BCWF card is certainly proof of 3rd party liability . The only issue that would come up is a hunting or fishing activity of which I asked if pre-hunt scouting would qualify ... to which he answered .. if thats what you were doing it would ! Contrary to some HBC members conspirocy theories all the C'O's , cops etc arent out to get you or even give you a hard time .
All of this might be a moot point if/when new atv regulations come into place but in the meantime I am very satisfied that BCWF liability insurance does meet my requirements ...
My question to smoothbor is Why would you have paid the fine if you were in the right ?

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy, If Speyman's happy with your answer I guess you drove your point home. What rock have you been living under if you've never heard of ATV BC?

[mcrae]

I ride recreationally as well so I just buy the insurance as well. I suppose if I was only using the ATV for hunting or fishing I would stick with the BCWF coverage but I don't so its in my best interest to get the extra coverage and then I don't have to make up stories when I am riding in the summer...

[Iron Glove]

I ride recreationally and for hunting and fishing. I have friends and family who use our ATV's at times.
I am a BCWF member and have the insurance that comes with it.
I also have separate liability coverage to cover the areas that the BCWF coverage doesn't.
I have been in the Insurance Industry for 40 years now and believe that I have a reasonable comprehension of insurance and have the ability to inteligently read a policy. I also want to protect my assets.
Ergo, I buy extra insurance, I won't depend on the BCWF coverage only.
You make your own informed decisions.

[Dad and son]

If any of you would like a copy of your insurance from BCWF you need to contact HUB Insurance. The contact person is Alice Bilton. Alice.Bilton@hubinternational.com
I contacted her and she emailed me proof of insurance for members of POCO gun club only. It is a generic insurance binder for all members of a particular club. If you are a member of POCO you can PM me and I can email you the certificate. If you belong to another club a simple email can save you a future ticket.
I also wrote a short email to BCWF asking if they would consider making this insurance certificate available to members in the future at renewal time, but have not heard back yet.

[sparkymacker]

Just to muddy the waters further; the BCWF policy is only valid after all other sources of insurance have been exhausted.

[Iron Glove]

Just to muddy the waters further; the BCWF policy is only valid after all other sources of insurance have been exhausted.

Common Insurance Policy conditions making the coverage secondary to any other collectable insurance. Similar clauses are in most types of insurance policies, no big deal. Keeps your premiums down by making it an excess rather than primary coverage.
The actual wording of the clause in the BCWF policy vs. the actual wording of the clause in any other insurance policy will determine if in fact it becomes excess or primary. If both policies have the same type of clause then they both become primary.

[sparkymacker]

Common Insurance Policy conditions making the coverage secondary to any other collectable insurance. Similar clauses are in most types of insurance policies, no big deal. Keeps your premiums down by making it an excess rather than primary coverage.
The actual wording of the clause in the BCWF policy vs. the actual wording of the clause in any other insurance policy will determine if in fact it becomes excess or primary. If both policies have the same type of clause then they both become primary.

All I know about insurance and insurance companies is that in their view you paying them is fine; them paying you is outrageous:twisted:

[Dad and son]

Sparkymaker, why do you say this insurance is valid only if others have been exhausted.
the only thing I can find on the policy is this:


It is hereby understood and agreed that the insurance provided by this policy is extended to include Excess Personal Liability of individual members while engaged in (i) hunting and fishing activities, (ii) shooting at competitions or for recreation at Gun Clubs, (iii) archery at a range, (iv) use or the ownership of a watercraft up to 26 feet in length with motors of not more than 100 hp while engaged in (i), (v) operation of ATVs that are not licensed or required to be licensed by ICBC on Non-Public Roads for off road liability while actively engaged in (i).

[matt420]

i am a member and have been for many year and the 2mill coverage dosnt cover you man, its a 3rd party coverage which means it will cover anyone who is with you on the dirt road while out hunting fishing hiking camping ect. ect. and they do cover your ATV with insurance aswell but if you are a member with BCWF and buy insurance from a company BCWF will not cover your ATV anymore


In case you didn't know if you join the BC wildlife foundation for $25/year, there is a cool bonus to becoming a member. It includes $2,000,000 liability insurance if you are doing anything that revolves around hunting, fishing or shooting firearms legally. There is a lot of talk surrounding Conservation enforcing the fact that we need liability insurance while using forestry and logging roads or they can fine us up to $600 for not having liability. Anyways long story short, people are joining the BCWF for about $25 yearly and are covered under BCWF's liability insurance, all we do is carry a telescopic fishing rod and some lures proving that we are on our way to a fishing hole and we are covered and they can't fine us. Here is more info, this is awesome and cheap. better than $100+/year and your supporting a great cause.
http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/committees/insurance/information/Understanding%20Your%20Insurance%20Website%20versi on%202010-2.pdf

[ve7iuq]

I haven't read all the posts, but--.
It is a liability insurance, which means if someone sues you, the BCWF insurance, under certain circumstances, may cover you, protect your pocket book. It is not going to pay for anybody that gets hurt. It is to protect you, against a law suit.
Lets look at some facts. An insurance policy used by the provincial ATV association, costs about $90 or so, a year, for members of the ATV group, more if you are not a member. This is supposed to cover insurees on forest service and other logging roads.
The fees to join the BCWF are? $25 a year. Of that amount, I think I have seen where $4 per member is allotted for insurance.
Now boys and girls, figure it out. Does anyone think for $4 a year, they are going to get ATV insurance, comparable to what costs members of the ATV association nearly $100?
I would suggest a careful reading of the insurance we all get by being members of the BCWF.

[browningboy]

Just pay the extra cash on independant insurance, I wouldn't trust a policy for 20 bucks, thats crazy...

[Fisher-Dude]

I haven't read all the posts, but--.
It is a liability insurance, which means if someone sues you, the BCWF insurance, under certain circumstances, may cover you, protect your pocket book. It is not going to pay for anybody that gets hurt. It is to protect you, against a law suit.
Lets look at some facts. An insurance policy used by the provincial ATV association, costs about $90 or so, a year, for members of the ATV group, more if you are not a member. This is supposed to cover insurees on forest service and other logging roads.
The fees to join the BCWF are? $25 a year. Of that amount, I think I have seen where $4 per member is allotted for insurance.
Now boys and girls, figure it out. Does anyone think for $4 a year, they are going to get ATV insurance, comparable to what costs members of the ATV association nearly $100?
I would suggest a careful reading of the insurance we all get by being members of the BCWF.

Do you know anything about risk assessment? It's a cornerstone of the insurance industry.

BCWF guys - putting around road hunting at 10 kmh
ATV club guys - seeing who can take that next FSR corner on two wheels at 100 kmh

Hope that helps you understand why joy riders pay big $$$ while BCWF hunters and fishers pay much less for similar coverage. Kinda like why a kid with an N plate pays much more than a 20 year safe driver at ICBC.

[srupp]

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/images/smilies/nest.gif......

Steven:mrgreen:

[ve7iuq]

Do you know anything about risk assessment? It's a cornerstone of the insurance industry.

BCWF guys - putting around road hunting at 10 kmh
ATV club guys - seeing who can take that next FSR corner on two wheels at 100 kmh

Hope that helps you understand why joy riders pay big $$$ while BCWF hunters and fishers pay much less for similar coverage. Kinda like why a kid with an N plate pays much more than a 20 year safe driver at ICBC.

The provincial ATV association are not the guys who take the corners on two wheels. They are the promoters of safe ATVing. That is why the members get a substantial reduction in their liability insurance.
Also, as I stated, the BCWF insurance is a liability insurance. It won't help the guy that flies off the corner. All types of ATVs have to have liability insurance to travel on forest service roads. This means that if an ATV causes an accident with a licenced car, for example, proper liability insurance will pay the damages, up to the limits of the policy.
There is no possible way the $4 a year allotted to the BCWF insurance covers this need. Not coverd, period.
I am currently a member of the Provincial ATV association and I have been a member of teh BCWF for a lot longer than you have, so I know a bit about both.

[Iron Glove]

Do you know anything about risk assessment? It's a cornerstone of the insurance industry.

BCWF guys - putting around road hunting at 10 kmh
ATV club guys - seeing who can take that next FSR corner on two wheels at 100 kmh

Hope that helps you understand why joy riders pay big $$$ while BCWF hunters and fishers pay much less for similar coverage. Kinda like why a kid with an N plate pays much more than a 20 year safe driver at ICBC.

I more or less agree with you but I would suggest that the prime reasons for the much lower price are:
1. The BCWF coverage only applies whilst hunting or fishing, thus eliminating most joy riding, etc. and
2. It is excess insurance over any other valid and collectible insurance on the ATV.
And yes, I know a heck of a lot about risk assesment after 40 years of doing it. :mrgreen: