Baiting grizz? Would you support it -

[BromBones]

Simple yes or no deal.

No need to bring out the argument over ethics. I'd personally get no enjoyment from hunting bears over bait, and I believe many of you would feel the same. Looking at it strictly from a conservation point, of having the option there if desired.

Most of you know that keeping sow harvest (especially mature sows) to a minimum is key to keeping grizzly populations stable or on the rise. We all get the letter from the MOE with our LEH which stresses sex identification to reduce female harvest.

I'm of the opinion that a good portion of sow grizzly harvested are by first time hunters who do not take the time to ID the bear. This is where a bait set comes into play.

Having the time to study a bear from a safe distance goes a long ways in determining sex. Also, from my experience seeing bears on kill sites, and from what I've been told by some of the old timers who may have had some dealings with this sort of thing in the past :wink:, it's not often you see a sow on a bait pile. If there are a number of boars in the area, usually one of them will have claimed it, and if there is any competition, the odds favor the biggest bear being on the gutpile. Again, that is my opinion, some of you may believe otherwise.

Obviously baiting for bears would never fly with grizzly bear hunting being under the pressure it is today. Still, it's my opinion that allowing bait sets for grizzly would increase boar harvest #'s (and possibly mature boars as well), while at the same time help decrease the number of females taken.

Like to hear opinions from the rest of you.

[BlacktailStalker]

Everybody has a different definiton of the words "quality of the hunt"
I would support it but I wouldnt take advantage of it.

What I would like to see is black bear baiting in BC too.
I think a lot of bears get whacked that have cubs.
I think a lot of two year old bears get whacked too.

My interest in this is I'd like to run hounds of baits (not bears standing there but bears that had been there say 12 hours before and cold trail them)

Baiting is a whole problem in itself because with baiting comes conflict regarding areas, sabotaging baits and steep competition from lots of 'poor sports' that have major potential to create problems.

[Slee]

no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elkdom]

is hunting Grizzly, while you are accompanied by a grossly obese, stinky hunting companion???

considered " BAITING " ??? :wink:

if it is ?, then I have seen it happen!:?




but IMO, habituating ANY bear to unnatural food sources is bad news!

I am not for "baiting bears",

[moosinaround]

There are enough bears in BC that they do not need to be baited!! A grizz hunt is about getting into the mountains and experiencing the bear in it's element. It is about the hunt, not the kill!! Moosin

[yamadirt 426]

Baiting is for east coasters for some reason. No Bait !

[BromBones]

There are enough bears in BC that they do not need to be baited!! A grizz hunt is about getting into the mountains and experiencing the bear in it's element. It is about the hunt, not the kill!! Moosin

I agree 100 %.

The fact is that many first time grizzly hunters are very concerned about the kill.

New hunter with grizz draw, sees grizzly, no cubs, looks huge (a 6 ft grizzly seems massive to a first timer). Add in the excitement factor, and you've got a recipe for a dead sow. Happens often.

Having time to watch the bear and make a confident decision is huge.

I think too that a newb grizzly hunter should make every effort possible to have an experienced bear hunter tag along, to help ID the bear as a male, along with other obvious reasons.

[Jelvis]

No there's enuff garbage dumps already

[Fisher-Dude]

is hunting Grizzly, while you are accompanied by a grossly obese, stinky hunting companion???

considered " BAITING " ??? :wink:

if it is ?, then I have seen it happen!:?


When did you hunt grizz with THE SWEDE?

[silvicon]

A mute duscussion, as grizzly hunting will go the way of the dodo bird!
To the femal bear kill: too many "hunters" out there to beginn with,
who are unable to differ boar from sow.
That is a fault in the LEH system: anyone can apply and -if drawn-
is allowed to go out and cause damage.
NO education or experience needed!
Don't drag out CORE, it is a joke at best!

[mark]

A mute duscussion, as grizzly hunting will go the way of the dodo bird!
To the femal bear kill: too many "hunters" out there to beginn with,
who are unable to differ boar from sow.
That is a fault in the LEH system: anyone can apply and -if drawn-
is allowed to go out and cause damage.
NO education or experience needed!
Don't drag out CORE, it is a joke at best!

That is a fault in the LEH system: anyone can apply and -if drawn-
is allowed to go out and cause damage.

And your solution to this is what????

For the record, Id have no issue with it, conservation is my only concern!

[huntwriter]

Yes I would support baiting grizzly bears, and black bears for that matter. Anyone who thinks that hunting over bait is like shooting fish in a barrel is badly mistaken. Some jurisdictions permit bear hunting over bait because it gives the hunter the opportunity to watch the animal longer and with that avoid gender mistakes. Although, not as many female bears get killed as some make it sound here. It's bad enough if antis make such unfounded claims but this coming from hunters is just unbelievable.

[todbartell]

yes I would support baiting bears (blacks too). Why not? from what ive read and heard, its alot of work to do it properly

[Buckmaster123]

You think the anti-grizzly protesters are fired up now, just try baiting and see what happens, what kind of publicity do you think this would get for our sport? What a ridiculous thought, baiting grizzlies or any bear for that matter is for fat lazy hunters with no sportsmanship or ethics what so ever!!!!!!!

[huntwriter]

You think the anti-grizzly protesters are fired up now, just try baiting and see what happens, what kind of publicity do you think this would get for our sport? What a ridiculous thought, baiting grizzlies or any bear for that matter is for fat lazy hunters with no sportsmanship or ethics what so ever!!!!!!!

Have you ever tried to hunt over bait or talked to someone who did? Given your statement I guess not. A bit like the anti crossbow that never shot or hunted with one.:wink:

[Ambush]

You think the anti-grizzly protesters are fired up now, just try baiting and see what happens, what kind of publicity do you think this would get for our sport? What a ridiculous thought, baiting grizzlies or any bear for that matter is for fat lazy hunters with no sportsmanship or ethics what so ever!!!!!!!

Well the anti's claim we are shooting them over bait already, so why not.

And as for your ".. fat, lazy, unethical" comments, that's just a stupid, narrow minded, un-informed chunk of BS.

PS: I've never baited bears.

[bridger]

Simple yes or no deal.

No need to bring out the argument over ethics. I'd personally get no enjoyment from hunting bears over bait, and I believe many of you would feel the same. Looking at it strictly from a conservation point, of having the option there if desired.

Most of you know that keeping sow harvest (especially mature sows) to a minimum is key to keeping grizzly populations stable or on the rise. We all get the letter from the MOE with our LEH which stresses sex identification to reduce female harvest.

I'm of the opinion that a good portion of sow grizzly harvested are by first time hunters who do not take the time to ID the bear. This is where a bait set comes into play.

Having the time to study a bear from a safe distance goes a long ways in determining sex. Also, from my experience seeing bears on kill sites, and from what I've been told by some of the old timers who may have had some dealings with this sort of thing in the past :wink:, it's not often you see a sow on a bait pile. If there are a number of boars in the area, usually one of them will have claimed it, and if there is any competition, the odds favor the biggest bear being on the gutpile. Again, that is my opinion, some of you may believe otherwise.

Obviously baiting for bears would never fly with grizzly bear hunting being under the pressure it is today. Still, it's my opinion that allowing bait sets for grizzly would increase boar harvest #'s (and possibly mature boars as well), while at the same time help decrease the number of females taken.

Like to hear opinions from the rest of you.


sow grizzly harvest is in my opionon a dircet by product of leh. many hunters feels they are only going to get one tag in a lifetime and want to harvest a bear so they take the first bear they see. Case in point three years ago i run into a couple of guys on the tuchode that had just killed a small sow griz. when we started talking about the sow/boar ratio in theharvest and the possible effects on next years season harvest they couldn't care less they had filled their tag that was all that mattered. the point being is that most hunters feel that they are only going to get one leh tag and are determined to harvest a bear no matter the consequences.

[DevilDog77]

Baiting isnt hunting...and it isnt ethical.

Winning an LEH doesnt mean your going to bag a grizzly, nor does putting in the time out in the bush. Its part of hunting, it wouldn`t be what it is if everytime you went out, your throwing another animal in the back of your truck...

Any hack can bait.

[Shooter Jr.]

I wouldn't want to you'd probably be done the season pretty quick if your a meat hunter. And besides doesn't everybody like to spend time with their rifles on there back and dog by their side?

[KB90]

baiting grizzlies or any bear for that matter is for fat lazy hunters with no sportsmanship or ethics what so ever!!!!!!!


Baiting isnt hunting...and it isnt ethical.
Any hack can bait.


So people who hunt alberta and sakatchewan are fat lazy and unethical???

The thread creator asked this not to be a debate on ethics. These two comments are ridiculous.

[KB90]

I don't have a problem with baiting, whether it be grizzlies or blacks, personally I would not choose to always hunt them this way though, I do enjoy a good spot and stalk :)

[kootenayelkslayer]

Any hack can bait.


Any hack can drive around on a logging road and shoot a bear. Baiting is actually a hell of a lot of work. There's a lot more to it than most people probably think.
Not saying that's the way I'd hunt, but I'm just pointing out that you might not know exactly what you're talking about.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Oh and by the way, I would definitely not support baiting grizzlies. Too many people would be getting killed when they went to check their baits :s

[Gateholio]

I'm fine with baiting for bears. It's done in most of the rest of Canada, and used to be legal in BC. Why they changed it, I don't know, but it was probbaly due to some anti hunting groups protesting:-D

I doubt I would engage in it, as it is way more work and alot less fun than most of the other ways to hunt bears. I like walking down roads and glassing clearcuts in the spring. It's usually a real peaceful time of year to be out in the bush.

I don't see baiting as any more or less ethical than the way most black and grizzly bears are hunted in BC. Most bears get spotted from an F250 and either the guy jumps out and shoots it, or maybe there is a short stalk.

The F250 spot and stalk is much better than baiting for the lazy hunter. Bear baiting entails lots of work and lots of patience...:wink:

[Schutzen]

I would support it if I got to use the politician of my choice for the bait!

[ElectricDyck]

I've always wondered this, wouldn't baiting habituate bears to human food? How would a bear taste after eating dog food and molasses? How does it work, would I be running into peoples bait piles randomly placed in hunting areas?

[GoatGuy]

A mute duscussion, as grizzly hunting will go the way of the dodo bird!
To the femal bear kill: too many "hunters" out there to beginn with,
who are unable to differ boar from sow.
That is a fault in the LEH system: anyone can apply and -if drawn-
is allowed to go out and cause damage.
NO education or experience needed!
Don't drag out CORE, it is a joke at best!

LEH on grizzlies actually increased demand and female harvest. Now when hunters finally get the draw they aren't picky like they were when they could hunt every year. You'll also find that road closures increase sow harvest. It's interesting when one actually looks at the harvest and deals with fact. So, you're out to lunch on the first count.

In terms of 'resident hunters' not knowing the difference, assume you're implying non-residents are harvesting only boars because they're guided.

Last 10 years percent of residency groups sow harvest:

Resident 35%
Non-resident 30%

Looks like the joke's on you, again. Don't understand how somebody can make up so much BS on a regular basis - must take a lot of effort. Keep up the good work.

[Mr. Dean]

It's been brought up before and my stance remains the same.



...... habituating ANY bear to unnatural food sources is bad news!

I am not for "baiting bears",

And it's BANG-ON with the above quoted.

[hunter1947]

My vote is NO females give birth to young and this will keep the new recruitment coming.

My advice is if you get picked for an LEH grizzle bear then do your home work and then when your off to the area you have got drawn for then put some effort into your hunt and you will find..

[.330 Dakota]

IMHO Baiting is not hunting, you see all these tv shows where a guy shoots a bear or whitetail over bait or feedplot that has been put there for that purpose...discusts me

[barry1974w]

I know the thread starter didn't want this to become an discussion on ethics. And I know a lot of you guys know a hell of a lot more than me. For myself I don't think I'd ever hunt bears over bait (but I have hunted bears in an oat field... does that make me a hypocrite?), but I fully support any legal method of taking game. Just because you don't do it, doesn't mean you shouldn't support other hunters methods.

[mainland hunter]

There's something about dragging a bunch of crap in a drum into the bush that I have trouble seeing as a great outdoor pursuit. I don't have an issue with stumbling onto a kill and hunting over that.

[mtm]

IMHO Baiting is not hunting, you see all these tv shows where a guy shoots a bear or whitetail over bait or feedplot that has been put there for that purpose...discusts me
Good to see others that share my way of looking at hunting/shooting. I voted no. Wouldn't try and stop it but certainly would have no interest in doing it.

[325]

I vote no. I don't think it's fair chase. Also...say you are sitting in your treestand, and a bad tempered sow and her cubs come in. There is a good chance she's not going to let you get out of your tree...you might have to sit there all night or even a couple days. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

[boxhitch]

Disagree with habituating wildlife to food types used by humans
Hunting over carcasses may increase killings just for bait.
Probably 90% of hunters figure any single bear is good to kill, regardless of sex.
Voted NO

[boxhitch]

That is a fault in the LEH system: anyone can apply Good humour there

[guest]

Absolutely NOT !

CT

[Hotshoe]

IMHO Baiting is not hunting, you see all these tv shows where a guy shoots a bear or whitetail over bait or feedplot that has been put there for that purpose...discusts me
it is sad that you find 85% of all bear hunters in Canada discusting! These are the same people that would be standing beside you defending your right to hunt and fish. Just because you do not live in a region of the country where it is practised shouldn't be cause to project an elitist attitude towards fellow sportsmen and women, especially in a time where we all need to support each other. What would the reaction be on this forum if somebody from "out east" bashed BC hunters for hunting the "endangered grizzly" after they came across an article by Susuki??
As far as the whole habituating bears argument goes, are all the biologists and hunters in the rest of the country not as smart as everyone in BC? Why have human/bear conflicts gone up in Ontario since they got rid of the spring bear hunt? I personally have had a bait for the last 10 years within 2 miles of a major resort and in that time not one problem bear has been removed from the resort. The only time Bear baiting has been abolished in Canada was due to politics not biology.
I have hunted bears over bait and spot and stalk and they are totally different experiences. If I am in a part of the country that lends itself to spot and stalk then I am in. If I want to hunt bears in the flat thick boreal forest of AB, SK, MB, ONT, etc.,then I will probably bait them because I want to HUNT.
To answer the original question, No I don't think it would be a good idea to bait Grizzlies, I think it would be suicidal!

[Gateholio]

I didn't vote, as I have no idea if baiting would increase or decrease sow mortality rates.

A grizzly bait station may make for interesting viewing and encounters, though!:-D

[Caribou_lou]

No way Buddeh!

Caribou_lou.....Spot and stalk.

[CanuckShooter]

IMHO Baiting is not hunting, you see all these tv shows where a guy shoots a bear or whitetail over bait or feedplot that has been put there for that purpose...discusts me


There's something about dragging a bunch of crap in a drum into the bush that I have trouble seeing as a great outdoor pursuit. I don't have an issue with stumbling onto a kill and hunting over that.


No sir, not for me. Hunting over a garbage heap isn't my cup of tea, not to mention they probably leave one he** of a mess behind. If they are in a feedplot, or naturally fishing....no big deal as that's natural.

[elkdom]

having Guided Non-residents on approximately 2 dozen Grizzly hunts resulting in about that many Grizzly trophies harvested by guided non-residents, over 20 years in BC,

and harvesting about a dozen grizzlies under my own license tags in BC, over 30 years of hunting Grizz in BC, not ONE Female Grizzly was killed during these specific Grizzly hunts,

but to my knowledge over the years,during those same years, there has been several Female Grizzlies killed by reasons of GBear attacks,marauding, camp robbing, Female and juvenile GBears,,

I do not see LEH Grizz hunting as a major factor in resulting Female and Juvenile GBear mortality!

quite the opposite, while specifically SEEKING out GBears on an LEH hunt, one is EXPECTING to encounter GBears,,,

campers, hikers and hunters while otherwise hunting moose, elk and other Big game, unexpectedly encounter GBears when LEAST expecting to,

thus a bad GBear encounter!, results quite often ending in a dead ( any sex, any age) GBear!

[GoatGuy]

One thing to remember so long as sow harvest doesn't exceed 30% of the AAH it's not a big deal.


Right now we're managing (not managing) grizzly bear populations so that they're increasing, or at least hunting is not creating a decline, in most areas across the province. That may or may not be a good idea, depending on who you are and what you perspective is on wildlife management (or hunting management).

If we're going to 'manage' wildlife we should be harvesting from the female segment of the population.

[huntwriter]

IMHO Baiting is not hunting, you see all these tv shows where a guy shoots a bear or whitetail over bait or feedplot that has been put there for that purpose...discusts me

The only thing they never show is that the hunter maybe has to go days without making a shot. It always looks easy on video. Like I said hunting over bait is not like shooting fish in a barrel. I've hunted over bait and it bored me to no end. You see lots of critters but getting a shot off is anything but easy as feeding critters seldom stand still long enough to aim or in the perfect position.

I support baiting and always have, it's no different then using scent and calls to attract game animals.

[Camp Cook]

No.......... :)

[huntwriter]

it is sad that you find 85% of all bear hunters in Canada discusting! These are the same people that would be standing beside you defending your right to hunt and fish. Just because you do not live in a region of the country where it is practised shouldn't be cause to project an elitist attitude towards fellow sportsmen and women, especially in a time where we all need to support each other. What would the reaction be on this forum if somebody from "out east" bashed BC hunters for hunting the "endangered grizzly" after they came across an article by Susuki??
As far as the whole habituating bears argument goes, are all the biologists and hunters in the rest of the country not as smart as everyone in BC? Why have human/bear conflicts gone up in Ontario since they got rid of the spring bear hunt? I personally have had a bait for the last 10 years within 2 miles of a major resort and in that time not one problem bear has been removed from the resort. The only time Bear baiting has been abolished in Canada was due to politics not biology.
I have hunted bears over bait and spot and stalk and they are totally different experiences. If I am in a part of the country that lends itself to spot and stalk then I am in. If I want to hunt bears in the flat thick boreal forest of AB, SK, MB, ONT, etc.,then I will probably bait them because I want to HUNT.
To answer the original question, No I don't think it would be a good idea to bait Grizzlies, I think it would be suicidal!

This is a very intelligent comment. Often hunters are their own worst enemy. If hunting ever should stop it will be because of the hunters not because of the antis. Hunters, with a handful of notable exceptions, do absolutely nothing to set the record straight in public but most spend an extraordinary amount of time and effort to bash other forms of hunting. When traditional muzzleloader hunting was outlawed in Colorado it was because of hunters bashing traditional muzzleloader hunters and not because of the antis. Now that same state talks about outlawing traditional archery too.:wink:

[dana]

Wonder how many of you high ethictians who think hunting bears over bait is unethical are also against hunting them with hounds? Geeze, it's just shooting them out of a tree right? Maybe we need to relook at our ethics in this province and go the way of Californicated and Oregone? The Croc Hunter's wife probably is a good friend with Suzuki.

While I can't stand watching bear bait hunts on TV, that is only because they are extremely boring. If we had the ability to do it here, I probably would giver a go. Several years ago I got my eyes opened to how much work it takes to hunt bears over bait by talking to some of my friends in Idaho. It ain't easy like hunting them from the truck, whickh the bulk of BC bear hunters do, myself included.

When it comes to Grizz, I personally think that shooting them over a dead horse probably would be a blast. Last year I got an old Fred Bear video where he kills a BC grizz that is feeding on a moose carcus. Ol' Fred was pretty dang bold to kill it with his stick and string. Some amazing footage as the bear ran straight at Fred before it died.

As for the female harvest of Grizz, I think too many hunters feel they are better than other hunters when they look down on a hunter that decided to shoot their one and only grizz regardless of the critter's sex. I see it happen numerous times on these boards. Just look at my son's mountain goat nanny from a few years ago and how many 'wanna bes' jump on the bandwagon and trash me. And yet when I poke someone who thinks they are a 'trophy hunter' for the rat muley they just killed, everyone thinks I'm the A$$hole. Funny isn't it? No difference to me. You want to shoot a spike or forky or fill your doe tag, more power to ya. The same goes if you see a grizz that is clearly alone, who cares if it is a sow or a boar? More power to ya if it is what you want to cut your tag on.

[MOOSE MILK]

I guided archers in the early 60's over baits and I am here to tell you that it is not as easy as it apears on TV. Since I moved to BC I havent hunted baits and I think that spot and stalk is a heck of a lot easier. Runnin hounds is tough, I can't do it anymore. And my baits were always cleaned up when the hunt was finished, them bears would lick the ground clean, and no one would ever know that a bait was set in that spot.

[Ambush]

I didn't vote, as I have no idea if baiting would increase or decrease sow mortality rates.

When they closed the spring [baited] bear hunt in Ontario, the pro-hunt side did a lot of research proving that baited hunts resulted in less sows with cubs killed.

A grizzly bait station may make for interesting viewing and encounters, though!:-D[/quote]

Alaska did a pilot project to allow baiting grizzlies in a few areas. A well known resident bowhunter became the first person to legaly take a baited bear in Alaska. It wasn't easy and it took guts. More than shooting them fifteen feet from your truck door.

[BromBones]

I think some replied without even reading the first post, or missed the point entirely.

To those of you who replied (either for or against) with some valid reasons backing their stance on the matter, thank you. That's what I was looking for - the potential pros and cons.





When they closed the spring [baited] bear hunt in Ontario, the pro-hunt side did a lot of research proving that baited hunts resulted in less sows with cubs killed.


That's interesting. I've been trying to dig up some stats for sow harvest in areas that allow baiting, but no such luck as of yet.

[Ambush]

That's interesting. I've been trying to dig up some stats for sow harvest in areas that allow baiting, but no such luck as of yet.

I beleive the report was put together by the Ontario Sportsmans Aliance. Google Ontario spring bear hunt ban.

[demlake]

Interesting discussion for a new hunter to read.

I never thought about baiting as a way to limit the number of females killed.

But I think I'm opposed.

1. The anti-hunters won't listen to any justification for it, they'd just use it to continue to slander hunters. Watching a bait hunt on TV, I can understand how people would view it negatively.

2. I spend a fair amount of time in the bush without a gun, and I'd rather not have bears thinking 45 gallon drums, or anything else associated with humans, are sources of food. You can say the bears don't get conditioned, but I'd rather not take the chance.

I also wonder about the relationship of GOs to non-GOs. Would GOs be better able to bait, and have more success as a result? What would this do to the over-all availability of grizzly tags?

[Gauge]

i dont support it but if a person could they would be able to pick and choose bears rather than most, shooting first one they see which may be a sow or a young grizzly....

[xtremearchery]

I think that baiting any bear would practice good species management. Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario and some Maritime Provinces have introduced Management areas where baiting is allowed and its made for a healthier bear population. Also, it allows for a more ethical harvest decision. No sows with unseen cubs would be killed for one.... Just my views and options...

[Mr. Dean]

I've hunted (problem) black bears over bait, from a tree stand, with sticks-n-strings... Twas a BLAST. :razz:

Did you know, a wounded bear can climb a tree?
Who'd thunk it???

[brad ferris]

i think more mature boars would be less likly to visit baits in shooting light.if you sat on a bait for a week and had a sow come in regularly would you let here walk on the last day of your hunt? i also think that having a food source and human sent in the same place won't do us alot of good when it comes to creating nuisence bears. i 'd like to suport all methods of hunting but i can see the cons outweighing the pros on this one.

[rattling_junkie]

I would not be in favour of baiting grizzly bears. I believe it would be a dangerous situation for anyone who would want to attempt it. But hunting grizzlies is a dangerous proposition to begin with. The census in Alaska, where baiting for blacks is legal, is that the grizzlies don't stick around a bait consistently.

I have hunted bears in BC and Manitoba. I must say spot and stalk is incredibly fun. But so is baiting. In Manitoba if you want to be successful you bait. There is no way around it. We do not have an extensive back road system or a huge logging industry. Baiting is very rewarding and it is a lot of work.

As for it being a garbage dump I disagree. I will not feed the bears anything I wouldn't eat. After all you are going to eat the bear that you shoot. I feed the bears oats and fryer grease. Really nothing dumpy about that menu. Humans eat both.

I will say it here. Anyone who thinks baiting is for lazy unethical hunters I have an offer for you. If you can get yourself to Manitoba you can come and help me bait my sites. And you get to hunt. I will video for you too. Any takers?

[brad ferris]

I will say it here. Anyone who thinks baiting is for lazy unethical hunters I have an offer for you. If you can get yourself to Manitoba you can come and help me bait my sites. And you get to hunt. I will video for you too. Any takers?[/quote]

if you open this offer up to those of us who are suportive of baiting blackies you may just get some takers. whats a out of province tag cost?

[rattling_junkie]

I will open it up to anyone who wants to try baiting black bears in Manitoba. I would set the bait up and maintain it until you arrived for your hunt. I could either sit with you or you could sit on your own. I set up all my baits for bowhunting but a rifle would still work. Anyone who is interested give me a pm. A non-resident tag costs $103. There is no extra cost.

[lange1212]

This is an issue that many appear to be divided upon and both sides of the argument have merit.

As for my position I would certainly support reinstating regulations that allow hunters who have been fortunate to draw a grizzly permit to hunt over the gut pile and waste portions of a legally harvested animal such as an elk or moose to aid in one's chances.

One aspect hunters should consider is that grizzly allocations for the most part are being under utilized and should be promoting regulations that aid hunters in harvesting their sustainable allocated share. If not baiting or being able to hunt over the carcass of a harvested animal, what other regulatory options could be implemented? I'm thinking there are areas where a 1 in 3 years type of regulation rather than LEH would be sustainable, allow hunters to be more selective and provide a regulations that would bring us closer to achieving our allocated share.

Living on the coast the grizzly population has certainly increased however the huntable lands we have access to has grossly decreased. Although the MoE claims to support grizzly hunting based on science what it is not telling you is that it has removed mass areas and deemed them no hunting grizzly areas (GBMA's) and they continue to increase like a cancer, and no the mass no hunting areas are not being implemented in accordance to what the scientific review panel reccomended. In short our grizzly hunting opportunities are being puzzle pieced away one piece at a time.

[MuleyMadness]

Baiting bears isn't hunting...it's shooting

Suzuki would love that too...bad idea, probably about the worst idea a pro hunter could come up with right about now.

[rattling_junkie]

MuleyMadness,

Is using hounds for cougars just shooting too? A cougar has no choice but to climb a tree unless he wants to be shot or get in a fight with dogs. On the other hand a bear has a choice to come to the bait site or circle downwind to not come into the bait. You are a very ignorant or uneducated hunter. If you want to experience some awesome fair chase bear baiting come out to Manitoba. I am serious. Get out here and I will put you on a bait but you have to help maintain the site.

[brad ferris]

lets not get drawn into what is and isn't hunting here the anti's just love seeing cracks open up in the hunting communities and they'll tap a wedge in it fast.i'd love to hunt a new province but unfortunatly i won't make it this spring.remind me again next april and i'll bring a buddy or two out your way.

[safarichris]

Pretty Chicken shit way of killing a Grizzly.

[Manglinmike]

Not really a pro baiting guy my self,that being said,it is a legal method of hunting in most of northamarica,just not in B.C.The way I see it unless you are hunting rite in your back yard or you are a guide baiting wont work for you anyway.How would I do if I left the fraser valley fri night and headed up north for a one week hunt,had to locate a bait sight,bait it and start waiting.Then after the first couple of times that my bait gets cleaned out in the middle of the night im out of bait and on my way the 7/11 for 200 bucks worth of twinkys!!! Nope spot and stalk far the traveling hunters to be sure!

[rattling_junkie]

You are right Brad Ferris. Well the offer is still open to anyone who wants to take the challenge.

Manglinmike,
I travel 4 hours one way to my bait. I bait for a month or more in order to ensure that I have a higher success rate of taking a mature boar. You are right spot and stalk can be much cheaper than baiting.

[safarichris]

Simple yes or no deal.

No need to bring out the argument over ethics. I'd personally get no enjoyment from hunting bears over bait, and I believe many of you would feel the same. Looking at it strictly from a conservation point, of having the option there if desired.

Most of you know that keeping sow harvest (especially mature sows) to a minimum is key to keeping grizzly populations stable or on the rise. We all get the letter from the MOE with our LEH which stresses sex identification to reduce female harvest.

I'm of the opinion that a good portion of sow grizzly harvested are by first time hunters who do not take the time to ID the bear. This is where a bait set comes into play.

Having the time to study a bear from a safe distance goes a long ways in determining sex. Also, from my experience seeing bears on kill sites, and from what I've been told by some of the old timers who may have had some dealings with this sort of thing in the past :wink:, it's not often you see a sow on a bait pile. If there are a number of boars in the area, usually one of them will have claimed it, and if there is any competition, the odds favor the biggest bear being on the gutpile. Again, that is my opinion, some of you may believe otherwise.

Obviously baiting for bears would never fly with grizzly bear hunting being under the pressure it is today. Still, it's my opinion that allowing bait sets for grizzly would increase boar harvest #'s (and possibly mature boars as well), while at the same time help decrease the number of females taken.

Like to hear opinions from the rest of you.

Based on my experience with G Bears, both Sows/Cubs and mature Boars coming into a meal ticket, I have seen some Grizzly lay claim to a carcass by sleeping right in the rib cage to ensure he or she gets thier fare share. Some Grizzly will wonder over ten miles away from the carcass, but will return when they are ready. Often, it has been cleaned up by Black Bears or other smaller grizzly. With a Sow and two year old cubs, the cubs might be as far as three hundred yards behing her. They often do not stay right by her side when they get older.. It is very hard to tell a sow grizzly from a boar when the family unit is not right by her side. That is why I always wait sometimes half an hour, glassing to see if her two year old cubs may be tagging along at a distance, and finally show themselves.
There are so many moose ,elk wounded in the bush every Fall, it is a natural meal for them. If you found one of these carcasses, I am sure you would get your Bear. It is just not my way of hunting such a majestic animal. Besides, if you think that is a slam dunk way of killing a G.bear, you are mistaken. I can count several professionals who lost thier lives doing just that. They guided Grizzly hunters all thier lives, but made just one mistake on a kill that a G.Bear made or claimed.

[MuleyMadness]

MuleyMadness,

Is using hounds for cougars just shooting too? A cougar has no choice but to climb a tree unless he wants to be shot or get in a fight with dogs. On the other hand a bear has a choice to come to the bait site or circle downwind to not come into the bait. You are a very ignorant or uneducated hunter. If you want to experience some awesome fair chase bear baiting come out to Manitoba. I am serious. Get out here and I will put you on a bait but you have to help maintain the site.

Well I would have to disagree with you, as someone who set's up a 'bear bait' at my curb that get's hit nearly once a month in the 3 hour span that it's at the curb. Or having witnessed bears come from MILES and MILES away to get at a pack of bacon or a freshly caught fish when camping in the wild. They have the ability to circle downwind...and guess what..they still CONSISTENTLY come. The fact is, bears that have no weariness of bait's would be absolutely slaughtered in the first few years, because they have learned to not be wary of that situation. I wasn't referred to what fair chase hunts exist in MB or ON or anywhere else. I am talking about what would happen HERE, in this province, and that is a slaughter the tree hugging, granola munching, hemp wearing asshats would LOVE. And it would get the hunt shut down, I have no doubt.

I have never hunted bears or cats with dogs either, and never thought about it as something inappropriate because you are not creating a artificial situation to lure an animal in, but rather using highly trained animals to assist in locating and killing an animal that was not artificially lured into an area seems to follow the 'fair chase' ideals a little more than a 45 of fish oil, apples and molassas. Baiting bears is legal in other provinces, and I feel that if that's the type of bear hunting you want to do, you should stay there. The political climate here simply will not permit that type of hunt and it damages all hunters who hunt ALL species, in ALL the different legal ways we have to hunt.


To call me ignorant or an uneducated hunter because you don't like what I say, despite the fact that it has merit, it's simply childish and idiotic. I have spent my entire life in the bush hunting, working, and relaxing and have used that experience to tell me bears in this province would not fair well baited, at least not for several generations, at which point it would very likely be too late, either from a conservation or political standpoint. Saying it would work here because it works in MB and ON is flat out wrong. Those bears have been conditioned over years and years to be as weary of bait drums (and even then I have seen video that says they still aren't that concerned) as they need to be to ensure their long term survival...can you say the same thing, HONESTLY about the bears here? And would the aforementioned hippies allow it with all their political power and money?

[madrona sh]

No. Not my idea of hunting.Using bait seems like something a guide outfitter would use.

[dana]

Based on my experience with G Bears, both Sows/Cubs and mature Boars coming into a meal ticket, I have seen some Grizzly lay claim to a carcass by sleeping right in the rib cage to ensure he or she gets thier fare share. Some Grizzly will wonder over ten miles away from the carcass, but will return when they are ready. Often, it has been cleaned up by Black Bears or other smaller grizzly. With a Sow and two year old cubs, the cubs might be as far as three hundred yards behing her. They often do not stay right by her side when they get older.. It is very hard to tell a sow grizzly from a boar when the family unit is not right by her side. That is why I always wait sometimes half an hour, glassing to see if her two year old cubs may be tagging along at a distance, and finally show themselves.
There are so many moose ,elk wounded in the bush every Fall, it is a natural meal for them. If you found one of these carcasses, I am sure you would get your Bear. It is just not my way of hunting such a majestic animal. Besides, if you think that is a slam dunk way of killing a G.bear, you are mistaken. I can count several professionals who lost thier lives doing just that. They guided Grizzly hunters all thier lives, but made just one mistake on a kill that a G.Bear made or claimed.


How'd you boys hunt for Ol' Nero??? Seem to remember stories of Gang horses or cattle being stolen, shot and staked and then sat on, even in the middle of the night??? Boy, the good ol' days eh? ;)

[Darksith]

I support baiting and always have, it's no different then using scent and calls to attract game animals.
except that you are targeting a wide variety of animals, not just that 1 species as with calls and scents. I can see it now, a bunch of good old boys with every predator/scavenger hanging from the trees around their bait to add more bait waiting for the right bear.

[rattling_junkie]

MuleyMadness,

It appears you have no experience hunting bears over bait and mature bears at that. Alaska has similar terrain as BC and they allow hunting. So does Alberta. It would not take generations for the bears to become "conditioned". Young bears don't mind coming to the bait when they get a nose full of human but mature boars do not. Generally they will let their guard down during the rut just like a mature whitetail.

You may have a point about the political aspect but not from a management view. Really good luck with your season.

[MuleyMadness]

MuleyMadness,

It appears you have no experience hunting bears over bait and mature bears at that. Alaska has similar terrain as BC and they allow hunting. So does Alberta. It would not take generations for the bears to become "conditioned". Young bears don't mind coming to the bait when they get a nose full of human but mature boars do not. Generally they will let their guard down during the rut just like a mature whitetail.

You may have a point about the political aspect but not from a management view. Really good luck with your season.

I have hunted and bagged dozens of bears over the years, but more importantly have spent my life in the bush, where I have seen bears come into human habitation areas (whether permanent or temporary) with a consistent, unabashed lack of fear. In BC they DGAF if there are humans around or not, they just want the food...shit ask Brambles if you don't believe me.

WHAT THE HELL DOES THE TERRAIN HAVE TO DO WITH HUNTING OVER BAIT? I'm talking about the wildlife interaction of it, and have SEEN dozens of large MATURE bears come right into human areas in the wild and in town when they KNOW there are people there to go after food...and you claim that would all a sudden stop because bears were getting shot when it happened? Horseshit. Alberta has similar terrain to BC? Where do you live? About 200Km from the AB border has similar terrain, the rest, not so much. How's the grizz population doing in AB anyways? Liberal seasons over there? Thought so.

If you're going to make an argument, at least put some intelligence behind it, rather than just throw out the ole 'you know nuttin' 'you inexperienced', 'you never been around bears' bullshit.

In an area like BC where they haven't been hunted over bait before are you telling me they will have fear of it? From what exactly? All that tasty food they have gotten when they smelled that aroma before? They have no fear (yes MATURE bears) of coming into campgrounds, people's yards, settlements outside of urban areas, school yards, ANY WHERE there is food, but all of a sudden they wouldn't?

The fact that you say I MAY have a point on the political aspect tells me you have no idea about the hunting reality we experience here in BC, nor the power these groups have. They are already doing everything in their power to shut the grizzly bear hunt down, and not 2 months ago I saw a FULL PAGE colour ad on the back page of EVERY major weekend and Sunday newspaper published in the province building their political indoctrination for doing the same thing with black bears....the title was 'Only xxx days until the senseless slaughter begins' To put ads like that out would have run several hundreds of thousands of dollars and you want to give them more ammunition? If you understood how these groups work, no matter how you felt about baiting, you would understand it was an impossibility here now and for the foreseeable future, because it would undeniably destroy any chance of the grizz LEH and black bear seasons continuing.

If all you have to come back with is 'inexperienced' think again...I've been out there seeing this, working and hunting in the bush in this province EVERY week for 30 years. So yeah...I know nuttin :-?

[rattling_junkie]

Ok like you said you know nothin. Read my first post. I agree not to bait grizzlies. Black bears are another story. Really put on your big girl panties and fight for your rights.

[MuleyMadness]

Wow what a stunning level of intelligence ..Did you even READ what was written? I am talking about baiting ANY bear, of ANY species.

Who the **** are you to tell me to fight for our rights...I am...are you? Do you do anything to advance hunter's rights in this province or do you just tell people who disagree with you they know nothing without bothering to back that up with facts, experience, data, REAL INFORMATION? Do you even LIVE here?

Fight these guys on their battleground? We are doing our best, but unfortunately they have 10x the members, 100x the money, 100x the political strength, and if we don't fight this 1000x smarter, we have no chance of not just maintaining a grizzly hunt, but maintaining the right to choose the lifestyle we have all chosen....ask 100 people on this board if that's an exaggeration...99 will tell you no

But by all means, let's bait the bears, it's only our lifestyles, our kid's lifestyles, friends and families lifestyles just so we can do something we haven't been able to do here in a very long time (or ever...not that I can recall anyways, but then I don't know anyone that would sit on a gut pile to hunt an animal they are going to eat, so maybe it has been legal before).

Keep coming with all your fact based arguments...I can do this shit all day.

My fear is that by fighting with an idiot you may somehow find a way to drag me down to your level and beat me with your years of experience......

Baiting bears in BC will destroy our standing in many non hunter communities and we will have to expend nearly ALL our political capital saving the hunt rather than furthering our cause on all the other fronts important to us. It's simply not worth it, not when I can climb any mountain within a 20 min drive of my house and accomplish the exact some thing in a manner anyone, even if they didn't agree with hunting, would still have to consider fair chase.

[brad ferris]

" back that up with facts, experience, data, REAL INFORMATION? Do you even LIVE here?"

are these the facts,data,and real information you speak of mr suzuki?

"they have 10x the members, 100x the money, 100x the political strength, we have no chance of not just maintaining a grizzly hunt, but maintaining the right to choose the lifestyle we have all chosen....ask 100 people on this board if that's an exaggeration...99 will tell you no"

of course we trust your figures mr. suzuki

I don't know anyone that would sit on a gut pile to hunt an animal they are going to eat,"keep coming with all your fact based arguments...I can do this (bull) shit all day.

we know those cute bears only eat berries and grass mr.suzuki

"Baiting bears in BC will destroy our standing in many non hunter communities and we will have to expend nearly ALL our political capital saving the hunt rather than furthering our cause on all the other fronts important to us. It's simply not worth it, not when I can climb any mountain within a 20 min drive of my house and accomplish the exact some thing in a manner anyone, even if they didn't agree with hunting, would still have to consider fair chase.[/quote]

first the trophy hunters,then the bear baiters,the houndsmen and then the highpowered rifles,eventually we'll get all those blood thirsty bambi killin *******s won't we mr. suzuki

ya i hate it when i get taken out of context as well but i figure this might help you see that your point of view isn't the only one that matters

[MuleyMadness]

" back that up with facts, experience, data, REAL INFORMATION? Do you even LIVE here?"

are these the facts,data,and real information you speak of mr suzuki?

"they have 10x the members, 100x the money, 100x the political strength, we have no chance of not just maintaining a grizzly hunt, but maintaining the right to choose the lifestyle we have all chosen....ask 100 people on this board if that's an exaggeration...99 will tell you no"

of course we trust your figures mr. suzuki

I don't know anyone that would sit on a gut pile to hunt an animal they are going to eat,"keep coming with all your fact based arguments...I can do this (bull) shit all day.

we know those cute bears only eat berries and grass mr.suzuki

"Baiting bears in BC will destroy our standing in many non hunter communities and we will have to expend nearly ALL our political capital saving the hunt rather than furthering our cause on all the other fronts important to us. It's simply not worth it, not when I can climb any mountain within a 20 min drive of my house and accomplish the exact some thing in a manner anyone, even if they didn't agree with hunting, would still have to consider fair chase.

first the trophy hunters,then the bear baiters,the houndsmen and then the highpowered rifles,eventually we'll get all those blood thirsty bambi killin *******s won't we mr. suzuki

ya i hate it when i get taken out of context as well but i figure this might help you see that your point of view isn't the only one that matters

Well Brad I certainly never said my point was the only one that matters...what I did say was stop arguing like a child and put facts or experience on display, don't just spout off that I know nothing and am inexperienced, because I am not. The info above is my EXPERIENCE, and I'm willing to bet the experience and perception of many here and of hunters in this province.

Calling me or comparing me to Mr Suzuki was a low blow, on level with some of the vilest names of predatory people I can think of. I love this province, the wildlife, and our ability to legally and ethically harvest it, and am willing to do most anything necessary to protect that. To compare me to someone who wants to strip you of your right to ethically/legally harvest and enjoy first wild bears and soon anything else he can think of really isn't a reasonable statement nor is it in touch with the reality of who I am OR what I have said.

Clearly those numbers above were generalizations...but do you think they are that far off? Does our voice come close to theirs when it comes to money, members, or political capital? Do you think you will find anyone on this forum that would think the numbers were way off? Of course not. Baiting bears is the opening that will allow them to enviscerate our way of life with the first thing lost being bear hunts. Does anyone really think they will stop at bear hunts?

Just because you don't like the way I present my facts, or stand up to someone I wholeheartedly disagree with doesn't really give you the right to slander me and twist my words around does it Mr Suzuki (see how that feels :)

[brad ferris]

willing to do most anything necessary to protect that.

ok heres an idea. start by not attacking another means of hunting. the point i made earlier is the old saying"united we stand divided we fall". this pertains not only to all types of hunters but also to all types of firearms owners as well as many other personal freedoms people today are so willing to give up.
as for comparing you to suzuki that had more to do with your ability to spin numbers and pull facts out of the air than your ideas on hunting. i mean come on 99 percent when the poll on here is sitting at 76% against baiting grizzlies.thats some pretty serious rounding up.

[MuleyMadness]

Unfortunately we have to agree to disagree Brad...his way of hunting bears, if allowed, would give them the ammo to destroy the hunt. Disagree if you like, lobby the BCWF and the government to allow it if you want, but all you do is help the anti's by getting something like that legalized. I can appreciate a viewpoint that differs from mine when it provides a reasoned argument, but if all someone wants to do is tell me I don't know anything or am inexperienced or whatever because he doesn't like what I have to say, I am not going to just lie down (and again, if he's baiting bears in MB, does he live here? Can't be a resident hunter in more than one province). If not, what is his stake in the argument, other than it's a fun way to hunt for him?

Talk about spinning numbers...I never said 99% were against baiting...I said 99% would likely tell you the anti hunting movement is better funded, better preceived, and has more political capital...the 99 had nothing to do with baiting, it had to do with the strength of our opposition.

Please understand my opposition to it isn't about being united or whatever. It's about people ignoring the political ramifications and the impact on others of what they are doing because it's fun or something that is okay in a place like MB where the veggieburgers aren't running things. Politics runs every moment of our interaction with the government, and to ignore that fact because we are hunters is a gigantic mistake.

It would be a death blow

[dana]

The antis must not be as strong in 99% of the other bear provinces and states as BC is in a very very minority when it comes to our anti-baiting laws. I guess Suzuki can win hear, as he already has the bulk of hunters here convinced that baiting is somehow unethical and wrong. Next in his target will be the houndsmen. The Croc Hunter's wife and Suzuki will be gunning for them and the bulk of hunters in this province who don't hunt bears with hounds will jump on the bandwagon about how 'unethical' hunting bears with hounds is. You know, it's just shooting them out of a tree. Just a bunch of lazy asses that don't know how to hunt bears the right way, you know, 'spot and stalk' where you drive bush roads and jump out cowboy style and shoot from the hip before the road rocket reached the r/w edge. That right there is the "real" way to hunt bears.

[Ambush]

Well Muleymadness, in my opinon, you are wrong on most accounts. I don't want to debate it, because that would be futile. I'm just saying I mostly dissagree. I'm not sure why BC's anti's would be way more wound up about baiting than the rest of North America.

Maybe if we were allowed to shoot grizzlies off carcasses, they wouldn't be so quick to claim a hunters moose or elk. I beleive V. Geist said we should be putting the fear into them.

I'll stick my neck out, 'cause it seems like we're allowed to just make up numbers, and say that 70% of the black bears shot here in BC are spotted from a truck and likely shot from within spitting distance of the open door. That takes way more skill and ethics than baiting???

If we were allowd to bait, blacks or grizzly, I probably would, if I wasn't to lazy. As a bowhunter, I think it would be great.

[MuleyMadness]

You guys misunderstand me...I don't mean that BC's anti's are more against baiting than anywhere else, what I mean is they are very strong and it is conceivable they could win this fight already (the grizzly hunt), to allow baiting of any bear would give them even more ammunition. It's not an ethics thing, it's a twist the hunter into a hideous evildoer thing. Personally I think ethics has nothing to do with it. It's a preservation of the hunt thing, not an ethics thing.

Everything we do in regards to the bear hunt really is in the public eye. How do you think they would react, and how do you think the anti's would spin it? Like it or not that is reality, you can't ignore it and hope it goes away because you wish it wasn't so. Again 'making numbers up'...it was a generalization but take a look at the financial statements of the BCWF and compare them to Greenpeace, WWF, Suzuki Foundation and such and then tell me I'm making numbers up. They have huge dollars behind them, not so much us.

[The Hermit]

I voted no but only because I can't see myself hunting over bait. It doesn't seem very sporting and IMHO the amount of work or expense to do it successfully has nothing to do with the matter. It just doesn't seem like fair chase to me.

I wouldn't mind sitting in a tree stand over the bait to video enjoy watching them though!

Having said that I wouldn't stand in the way of others using baiting techniques as long as there is no conservation concern and if it was legal.

It would be the death of bear hunting to push for a change to the laws here in BC.

I appreciated GoatGuys post on the subject regards the actual percentage of sows killed by resident and guided hunters.

[safarichris]

How'd you boys hunt for Ol' Nero??? Seem to remember stories of Gang horses or cattle being stolen, shot and staked and then sat on, even in the middle of the night??? Boy, the good ol' days eh? ;)

You know Dana. You think you know so much about The Gang Ranch, cowboys and the ''good old days''. If you were talking any sense, I would debate this with you. You are a waste of time in my books and your lip service just flys over my head. You talk like an Outdoor Historian on the Cariboo, expert on G.Bears,ethics,etc,etc. Why don't you go look for some shed horns and chill out. Then come back and talk some sense.

[Manglinmike]

Who would have known that a 45 gallon drum full of twinky's would get so many grown men this ryeled up!! I'm just going to hit the "pause" botton and grab another beer ,I'll be right back-don't want to miss any good swings!

[rattling_junkie]

Baiting bears isn't hunting...it's shooting

Suzuki would love that too...bad idea, probably about the worst idea a pro hunter could come up with right about now.

This is what I had a problem with. I have no problem with your experience hunting bears. But you don't have any experience BAITING bears. Your argument would have much more merit. Your experience of problem bears eating garbage isn't necessarily experience baiting. Really come up to Manitoba and I will take you out.

In saying this I respect your passion for hunting and the province of BC. As for your question if I live in BC. I no longer do. Although all of my family lives in BC and I do come back to visit and hunt. It is a great place.

I guess Brad Ferris is the only one who took me up on my offer of experience a baited hunt in Manitoba. Believe me after he comes out next year he will attest that it is fair chase. You have to be smart with baiting you just can't put bait anywhere. I could put you on a bait site with all the goodies but no bears or just a bear once during every 5 days. Or I could put guys on a bait where 10 bears a night hit the bait. Really it still comes down to technique like any other style of hunting.

[rattling_junkie]

Who would have known that a 45 gallon drum full of twinky's would get so many grown men this ryeled up!! I'm just going to hit the "pause" botton and grab another beer ,I'll be right back-don't want to miss any good swings!

Now that is funny! (LOL):-D

[elkdom]

You know Dana. You think you know so much about The Gang Ranch, cowboys and the ''good old days''. If you were talking any sense, I would debate this with you. You are a waste of time in my books and your lip service just flys over my head. You talk like an Outdoor Historian on the Cariboo, expert on G.Bears,ethics,etc,etc. Why don't you go look for some shed horns and chill out. Then come back and talk some sense.

thanks safarichris!:-D I needed a "chuckle" this morning! and you "delivered!:mrgreen: yuk yuk yuk,,,

as for baiting Grizz ??, I havnt changed my mind, it is still NO !,,

as for baiting Black Bears in BC ??, it really isnt necessary, why open up another "Can-O- Worms" for the ANTI's to feed on ??

the Sport Hunting community is sometimes "its own Worst enemy":?

as for "whats done in other Provinces, States or Countries ??"
anyone wanting to use the other methods is FREE to Travel!,,,,,

[MuleyMadness]

This is what I had a problem with. I have no problem with your experience hunting bears. But you don't have any experience BAITING bears. Your argument would have much more merit. Your experience of problem bears eating garbage isn't necessarily experience baiting. Really come up to Manitoba and I will take you out.

In saying this I respect your passion for hunting and the province of BC. As for your question if I live in BC. I no longer do. Although all of my family lives in BC and I do come back to visit and hunt. It is a great place.

I guess Brad Ferris is the only one who took me up on my offer of experience a baited hunt in Manitoba. Believe me after he comes out next year he will attest that it is fair chase. You have to be smart with baiting you just can't put bait anywhere. I could put you on a bait site with all the goodies but no bears or just a bear once during every 5 days. Or I could put guys on a bait where 10 bears a night hit the bait. Really it still comes down to technique like any other style of hunting.

And I do appreciate that rattling...while the problem bear issue was just and example as is my experience with them while camping and such in the wilderness I used it to indicate how susceptible bears are to attractants here, because they really aren't weary of people or their food. I believe you that it's fair chase there, but don't believe it would be the same here because of their lack of caution and experience.

No I am not experienced like youself baiting bears, but I am very experienced with bears and that is what I base my experience on.

Good luck, and maybe some video when Brad goes so we call all see how it is out in the 'gap'

[Gateholio]

This is what is so damn great about the intraweb..:-D

We have both sides presenting opinions, discussion on how anti hunting groups would react.

People with experience with baiting, people with no experience baiting going into detail about ethics and if it's sporting....

But there has been absolutely zero REAL movement from any group to allow baiting, and most likely nobody actually cares enough about the topic to try to make an actual push to introduce baiting.

God Bless the intraweb!:mrgreen:

[MuleyMadness]

Well we could discuss Saskquatch baiting...but some here might take offense :eek:

[leadpillproductions]

Well we could discuss Saskquatch baiting...but some here might take offense :eek:
oh we he have a bad day lol

[leadpillproductions]

I think if it's legal why the heck not

[dana]

You know Dana. You think you know so much about The Gang Ranch, cowboys and the ''good old days''. If you were talking any sense, I would debate this with you. You are a waste of time in my books and your lip service just flys over my head. You talk like an Outdoor Historian on the Cariboo, expert on G.Bears,ethics,etc,etc. Why don't you go look for some shed horns and chill out. Then come back and talk some sense.

Chris,
I only know what I've read. I found it rather odd that you jumped on the anti-baiting bandwagon given the details ol' Chilco put down on paper concerning a particular grizz by the name of Nero. Since I saw a thread of yours regarding Nero, I assume you must have had some dealings with that bear too. Chilco went into detail about the many ways that they tried to kill that bear. Yes, baiting was a method they used. I assume if you disagree then Chilco was just a story teller? Or are you the story teller? With your recent BS about the KIB sheep video, I'll take a guess it's the later. :twisted:

[safarichris]

Chris,
I only know what I've read. I found it rather odd that you jumped on the anti-baiting bandwagon given the details ol' Chilco put down on paper concerning a particular grizz by the name of Nero. Since I saw a thread of yours regarding Nero, I assume you must have had some dealings with that bear too. Chilco went into detail about the many ways that they tried to kill that bear. Yes, baiting was a method they used. I assume if you disagree then Chilco was just a story teller? Or are you the story teller? With your recent BS about the KIB sheep video, I'll take a guess it's the later. :twisted:
There again Dana, your verbal bouquets leveled at me in your Posts continue. If you wish to keep taking cracks at me on the Forum, fly at it. You have to learn to get the range. You either shoot to early or to late. Find the range, there is only a small window.
Whether B.C. opens the doors to baiting Grizzly is not my concern. My concern, would only be that possibly an eager hunter would shoot at the bear immediately when on a carcass and then watch a couple of two year old cubs present themselves several minutes later. What also concerns me is the danger involved with inexperienced hunters moving in to a Grizzly that has claimed a kill. You are correct with regards material written about a bear called Nero. He was not a myth, he was real. Chilco Choate shot many horses in both Spring and Fall for many years, trying to get this bear. The Bear died of old age. Baiting Grizzly many years ago was done by certain outfitters. If it was aginst the Law, I do not know, I do know the Fish and Game turned thier heads. I wrote about this in one of my books. My arguments were printed in the Vancouver Sun Feb, 1973. If you would take the time to read some of this material, you would know my views on Cowboys at the time, shooting Grizzly. You don't seem to want to read what was written about all this.
You can continue with these insults on this Forum, as there is little I can do. I can tell you this, I am perfectly capable of handling myself verbally or physically. We can proceed to the later any time you wish. Or, we can go one step further. I know where there are two Rams near Clinton, that would make the Kamloops Indian Band rams, look like ''pups". interested?

[Seeadler]

I'm pretty sure that not that long ago baiting was "the way" a lot of grizzly hunting was done in BC. The bait was usually a worn out horse.

[Gateholio]

Gentlemen,

Let's keep our heads cool, please. Thanks a bunch.

[horshur]

no I would not support deliberate baiting for bear. I think there may be a legitimate public safety concern with baiting as well.

[dana]

Chris,
That's more better. Now you are starting to open up a little. It would be interesting for someone who has seen the practice of baiting grizz in the past, give his 2 cents with regards to some of the concerns suggested in this thread. Although Nero was a wise bear, I assume others weren't so wise and indeed were harvested over horse bait? Did the bait condition the bears to focus on human feed versus natural feed? Were there safety concerns because of baiting? Were the baited bears more aggressive than the non-baited bears? I would think your concern about a quick shot at the first bear to come in that then has cubs stashed in the bush would be no different than any bear hunter be it truck hunting or spot and stalk. The risk is there if hunters don't take the time to identify the bear.
I know it was common for outfitters in the past to bait grizz and I have a gutfeeling there are several outfitters today that are still doing it. I guess it's kinda like Chilco agreeing to sit on the horse bait at night with a flashlight. Bending the rules or breakin the rules? I guess it all depends on how big the clients pockets are eh? I like you, could care less if the law ever gets changed to allow baiting. But I find it interesting to see how many people jump on the 'ethics' bandwagon in a thread like this, especially when BC is in the minority when it comes to anti-baiting laws.

[MuleyMadness]

Dana...just because we as province are in the minority as to allowing bear baiting that makes the ethics argument somehow less valid? By that reasoning, us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt...the linkage is there but obviously that statement ("us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt) is completely off base.

Perhaps this is an instance of the minority getting it right...as we as hunters all believe we are getting it right by living this lifestyle.

[Krico]

Sorry if I repeat some previous posts, have been away for 2 weeks and don't feel like reading all 100+ so far.

In response to the originally quoted question, I would have no problem supporting bear baiting. I'm not convinced that it would magically reduce the number of sows shot though. There will still be those who shoot the first bear they see, and there will still be those who hold out. Being up close and personal with feeding grizzly bears through use of a baiting station is not likely to calm nerves and reduce excitement versus viewing from a couple hundred yards...

What exactly is the difference between shooting a bear that's eating a moose carcass, and shooting a bear eating a streamside salmon carcass, berries on a hillside, fresh green grasses on a slide in the spring, etc. etc? Shooting a bear over a food source known to you, whether it's naturally occuring or placed there by humans, is all the same in my books.

I see by the poll results I am part of the minority, but, that is my opinion and all the ethics aside I really cannot distinguish a difference between hunting a bear that has his head down eating grasses and hunting a bear with his head down eating an animal carcass...

[Gateholio]

Dana...just because we as province are in the minority as to allowing bear baiting that makes the ethics argument somehow less valid? By that reasoning, us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt...the linkage is there but obviously that statement ("us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt) is completely off base.

Perhaps this is an instance of the minority getting it right...as we as hunters all believe we are getting it right by living this lifestyle.


How is jumping out of a truck and blasting a black bear in a clearcut more ethical than sitting in a tree stand over bait?

:-D:mrgreen:

[Jelvis]

Trappers use a baited trap for fur bearers which is right otherwise they would have to hunt for fur, hunting and Trapping ...
Bait a trap if you are a trapper .. Hunt if you are a hunter .. BOOM!
jelly hunter not trapper .. hunt for ...---> Thar it izzz .. POW!

[dana]

Dana...just because we as province are in the minority as to allowing bear baiting that makes the ethics argument somehow less valid? By that reasoning, us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt...the linkage is there but obviously that statement ("us as hunters, a CLEAR minority in this province, are ethically at a lower level than non hunters, because we choose to hunt) is completely off base.

Perhaps this is an instance of the minority getting it right...as we as hunters all believe we are getting it right by living this lifestyle.

You have just missed the point again. I'm saying this is NOT an ethics question. Hunters being a minority has nothing to do with Ethics as well. Why do you keep on refusing to answer the other obvious hunting method questions? Are you against hunting bears with hounds? Again, using the 'lazy, unethical' comments spouted in this thread, do you think shooting a bear out of a tree is 'hard'? And how 'hard' is it to stop your truck, shut it off, step out and shoot a bear that is sitting in a ditchline feeding on grass that was sown there by a guy like me. The fact that we grass seed all our road r/w's with clover and other mixes is the reason bears flock to roads. Is this not a form or baiting? The point that several have made is just because you yourself can't see yourself hunting certain way, doesn't make it unethical in any way shape or form.

[safarichris]

Chris,
That's more better. Now you are starting to open up a little. It would be interesting for someone who has seen the practice of baiting grizz in the past, give his 2 cents with regards to some of the concerns suggested in this thread. Although Nero was a wise bear, I assume others weren't so wise and indeed were harvested over horse bait? Did the bait condition the bears to focus on human feed versus natural feed? Were there safety concerns because of baiting? Were the baited bears more aggressive than the non-baited bears? I would think your concern about a quick shot at the first bear to come in that then has cubs stashed in the bush would be no different than any bear hunter be it truck hunting or spot and stalk. The risk is there if hunters don't take the time to identify the bear.
I know it was common for outfitters in the past to bait grizz and I have a gutfeeling there are several outfitters today that are still doing it. I guess it's kinda like Chilco agreeing to sit on the horse bait at night with a flashlight. Bending the rules or breakin the rules? I guess it all depends on how big the clients pockets are eh? I like you, could care less if the law ever gets changed to allow baiting. But I find it interesting to see how many people jump on the 'ethics' bandwagon in a thread like this, especially when BC is in the minority when it comes to anti-baiting laws.

I am having great difficulty understanding you. In one Post, you acuse me of using the Forum to sell my books and hope I will ''fade away'', in the next post, you ask me to ''Open up a little''. The baiting of Grizzly is illigal at this point in time. I am not going to offer ''Tips'' on the correct and safe method of baiting a Grizzly on this forum, or for that matter in any of my books. I have seen what can happen to a person, in one split second , when a person ''accidently'' walks into a carcass that a large G Bear has made or claimed. The last thing I want on my conscience should a young hunter get's crippled or killed, is his father writing to me and thanking me for ''advise, tips, or my two cents''. If baiting of G. Bears ever becomes legal in this Province, I will still not disclose what I have learned from the old timers on the methods used in the past. It is plain and simple to dangerous. You had better have all your crap together when moving in on a thousand pound Boar. It very well could be the last crap you ever take. Yes, I do know Chilco Choate, inside and out. He has taken some large Grizzly in his day. Back when there were thousand pounders still around. I have taken several myself. If anyone knows Dennis Gunn, he is the ''Guru'' of Grizzly Guides, I have worked with him since the early sixties. Maybe you can get him on the Forum to discuss his weath of knowledge in G.Bear hunting. My method of hunting Grizzly has always been, and will always be with two words in mind ''Fair Chase''.

[dana]

Chris,
Looks like you did answer my question. Thanks for that. If anyone were to push for the legal opening of grizzly baiting, I would hope there still some ol' timers around that know the hazards associated to it.

As for having a tuff time understanding me, don't worry about that. Many others on this site have yet to figure me out as well. You are not in a minority. All you need to know is if you stir the pot, I might stir it right back at ya. When it is a pot of $hit, you need to be careful that it doesn't tip over on ya. :twisted:

[Ambush]

It pains me to agree with dana, but this has NOTHING to do with ethics or lazy oppurtunism.

How can you say it is more ethical to drive down a road, spot a bear feeding so far down the road that he can't even hear you and then get out of your truck/quad and shoot him with a rifle capable of dropping him at 500+ yards. Get back in your truck/quad and drive up to the dead bear, high five, take pics, and congratulate yourself on "..doing it right"

And someone else is less ethical to wait patiently by a bait untill his selected bear is within his bow/muzzle loader/shotgun/rifle range.

So ethics has nothing to do with it.

AND:
"..fat, lazy slob sitting on his bait." It can take weeks of hard work to get even one successfull bait working. How much work does it take to throw your rifle in the truck, hit the Timmy's drive through and cruise back roads all day looking for a bear to appear in the ditch?

So lazy has nothing to do with it.

I personaly think bears are the perfect animal to road hunt. Relaxing fun, lots of sightings and no pressure. I like road hunting bears!! [ but I still have to get within bow range.:-D]

But I think you are wrong to pass judgement on someone else's idea of sportsmanship.:confused:

As long as hunters remain myopic, we will keep dwindling untill the anti's are out of a job.

[safarichris]

Chris,
Looks like you did answer my question. Thanks for that. If anyone were to push for the legal opening of grizzly baiting, I would hope there still some ol' timers around that know the hazards associated to it.

As for having a tuff time understanding me, don't worry about that. Many others on this site have yet to figure me out as well. You are not in a minority. All you need to know is if you stir the pot, I might stir it right back at ya. When it is a pot of $hit, you need to be careful that it doesn't tip over on ya. :twisted:

Dana
I have had more shit tipped on me, probably more than most and from the highest levels of Government. I will continue, because it is all for better managment of our Wildlife Resources. Our Fish and wildlife, now called the MOE has in the past fifty years, made some monumental, horrific blunders. Blunders, that this Province has yet to recouperate from. Yes Dana, I have seen first hand, some of the rediculas, unbelievable devestating decisions made by Government, that have cost wildlife dearly. I have also seen corruption and I have argued and testified on these issues in the highest Courts of the land , and paid the price. ''For every action, there is a reaction''. It cost me my outfitters License and Trapline. If you wish to further throw crap my way Dana, believe me, I can take it.
Maybe on the KIB Ram photo shoot, I did strech the truth about a ''Leg flopping around''. Maybe I should have used the word ''appeared to be a leg flopping around''. The point is, I do not believe this is the correct method of obtaining wildlife photography at it's best to sell a hunt. Especially, when it has only been just a few short years since several Wildlife Biologists sadly paid the price in a chopper, doing just that. That being, chasing Bighorns around in choppers. Whether you use the word Management or whatever, people are dead.
Sorry, this should not be on this thread and for that I appologise.

[dana]

Chris,
$hitstirring is definately an art. I don't doubt you have been in the thick of it many a time. What you may not realize is your little stirring about the KIB probably did you more harm than good. Hard to sell books about sheep hunting when you discredit yourself to your own target audience. But then again, maybe the Cowboy Festival crowd is more your target. ;)

[elkdom]

Dana
I have had more shit tipped on me, probably more than most and from the highest levels of Government. I will continue, because it is all for better managment of our Wildlife Resources. Our Fish and wildlife, now called the MOE has in the past fifty years, made some monumental, horrific blunders. Blunders, that this Province has yet to recouperate from. Yes Dana, I have seen first hand, some of the rediculas, unbelievable devestating decisions made by Government, that have cost wildlife dearly. I have also seen corruption and I have argued and testified on these issues in the highest Courts of the land , and paid the price. ''For every action, there is a reaction''. It cost me my outfitters License and Trapline. If you wish to further throw crap my way Dana, believe me, I can take it.
Maybe on the KIB Ram photo shoot, I did strech the truth about a ''Leg flopping around''. Maybe I should have used the word ''appeared to be a leg flopping around''. The point is, I do not believe this is the correct method of obtaining wildlife photography at it's best to sell a hunt. Especially, when it has only been just a few short years since several Wildlife Biologists sadly paid the price in a chopper, doing just that. That being, chasing Bighorns around in choppers. Whether you use the word Management or whatever, people are dead.
Sorry, this should not be on this thread and for that I appologise.

aaahhhhhhhh! for the "good- ol'- days Chris,,,,

sittin in the Exeter Arms,,, chewin on smoked moose sausage, tippin a couple of CC's,,, LEO and ME, mindin our business, then like a $hit Storm outa the East comes some no-good moose poacher from Lonnnnne Butte BC, and he spits on LEO and ME,:twisted:
then this Lonnnnne Butte inbred hill-billy, has the audacity!, to BUST my Custom made pool Cue with his head!

yah,$hit used to RAIN from the Sky' like Manna from Heaven,,,,,:wink:

[safarichris]

Chris,
$hitstirring is definately an art. I don't doubt you have been in the thick of it many a time. What you may not realize is your little stirring about the KIB probably did you more harm than good. Hard to sell books about sheep hunting when you discredit yourself to your own target audience. But then again, maybe the Cowboy Festival crowd is more your target. ;)

Appreciate your comments. Your input is always welcome. Try looking at the bigger picture with harassing Bighorns with Choppers for monetery gain, by anyone.
Just to mention, three out of my six books have gone ''Bestseller in Canada" Bighorns and Stone sheep, did it before I posted my first thread on the Forum. I am, Sir, and remain, your humble and obedient servant.

[MuleyMadness]

How is jumping out of a truck and blasting a black bear in a clearcut more ethical than sitting in a tree stand over bait?

:-D:mrgreen:

Seriously that us pretty obtuse Gatehouse...I was responding to Dana's supposition that it was ethically okay because OTHER provinces okay it but BC is somehow backwards because it is not permitted here...HIS explaination, to which I responded maybe a MINORITY is getting it right, like us hunters are getting it right opposed to anti's thinking hunting is wrong...we are a clear minority, how is it any different? That's his explaination for why it's okay (other provinces do it, we are a minority)

As far as the road hunting is concerned, all I can really say is that is not an artifically created situation used to lure an animal in and kill it...and artificial situation they have NO instincts to be weary of....is that to mean, in your books, road hunting is unethical? I don't do much of that myself but I know a lot of people do and nearly none of them would generate the raised eyebrows of the general public when describing how they hunt as they would if they said they shot a grizz over bait.

Do any of you folks who are arguing for it honestly believe that the hunt would survive the political fallout of a change to allow baiting? Really honestly believe it knowing already how effective, organized, media savy, and well financed those that oppose the hunt are? Think of it in those terms and I really don't understand any argument that suggests it be allowed.

[safarichris]

aaahhhhhhhh! for the "good- ol'- days Chris,,,,

sittin in the Exeter Arms,,, chewin on smoked moose sausage, tippin a couple of CC's,,, LEO and ME, mindin our business, then like a $hit Storm outa the East comes some no-good moose poacher from Lonnnnne Butte BC, and he spits on LEO and ME,:twisted:
then this Lonnnnne Butte inbred hill-billy, has the audacity!, to BUST my Custom made pool Cue with his head!

yah,$hit used to RAIN from the Sky' like Manna from Heaven,,,,,:wink:
Now, that is what I call funny. Leo was a great Game Warden. I wish they could make them in his mould.

[elkdom]

Now, that is what I call funny. Leo was a great Game Warden. I wish they could make them in his mould.


LEO wasnt so observant that night,,,LEO told the COPs the hill-billy fell down,kinda,,,quite possibly,,

big RON behind the bar wasnt much more observant,, big RON was kinda,pretty sure the hill-billy fell down,,,also,,,

and a week later when I stopped at the "Exeter Arms" for a cold one,

somebody had a left a BRAND New Pool Cue at the Bar for me !
there were rumors???, but no-one ever admitted buying me that New pool cue!:wink:

[Gateholio]

As far as the road hunting is concerned, all I can really say is that is not an artifically created situation used to lure an animal in and kill it...and artificial situation they have NO instincts to be weary of....is that to mean, in your books, road hunting is unethical? I don't do much of that myself but I know a lot of people do and nearly none of them would generate the raised eyebrows of the general public when describing how they hunt as they would if they said they shot a grizz over bait.

How is a logging road with human sown clover growing on the side of it and a cut block NOT an artificially created situation?
:-D


Do any of you folks who are arguing for it honestly believe that the hunt would survive the political fallout of a change to allow baiting? Really honestly believe it knowing already how effective, organized, media savy, and well financed those that oppose the hunt are? Think of it in those terms and I really don't understand any argument that suggests it be allowed.

it's somewhat hard ot judge how it would be received, seeing as the anti hunting groups ALREADY are against ALL forms of bear hunting!
:wink:

[safarichris]

LEO wasnt so observant that night,,,LEO told the COPs the hill-billy fell down,kinda,,,quite possibly,,

big RON behind the bar wasnt much more observant,, big RON was kinda,pretty sure the hill-billy fell down,,,also,,,

and a week later when I stopped at the "Exeter Arms" for a cold one,

somebody had a left a BRAND New Pool Cue at the Bar for me !
there were rumors???, but no-one ever admitted buying me that New pool cue!:wink:

Simply hilarious, Ah for the good old days, and at ''The Exeter''. I thought Clinton was bad.

[elkdom]

well it AINT , gonna happen!,(lawful Baiting of Grizz in BC for sport hunting)

so all the NAY's and YEH's get together for a BIG GROUP hug !



sorry NO GROPERS!

[MuleyMadness]

You have just missed the point again. I'm saying this is NOT an ethics question. Hunters being a minority has nothing to do with Ethics as well. Why do you keep on refusing to answer the other obvious hunting method questions? Are you against hunting bears with hounds? Again, using the 'lazy, unethical' comments spouted in this thread, do you think shooting a bear out of a tree is 'hard'? And how 'hard' is it to stop your truck, shut it off, step out and shoot a bear that is sitting in a ditchline feeding on grass that was sown there by a guy like me. The fact that we grass seed all our road r/w's with clover and other mixes is the reason bears flock to roads. Is this not a form or baiting? The point that several have made is just because you yourself can't see yourself hunting certain way, doesn't make it unethical in any way shape or form.

Did I say lazy? Please if you want to debate me argue in context nort what someone else may have said.

As for hounds, I have never done it but from those I have talked to about it, including friends, chasing hounds over the mountains for a couple of hours or a day doesn't sound too lazy to me, and I would think most people would agree with that...I don't think the use of dogs to locate game or retrieve any game...birds, rabbits, ducks, bears, (some apparently even use them to locate other big game) is unethical..it's not an artificial situation the animals are unaccoustomed to but rather one where two or more (how many dogs I'm not familiar with) thinking, living creatures team up and work together to improve the odds...with one group predator, and the other prey, something they are definitely NOT unaccoustomed to. Plus if you want to call any aspect of using dogs unethical (such as hounds on bears) then you have to for all use of dogs where they aide in locating the prey (such as pointers with pheasants) because they do help improve the odds in both cases, and I am not willing to do that.

Any other questions? I'm not here to hide anything, and what I say and believe I say and believe because I cherish our ability to hunt these and all animals and I feel that allowing bear baiting would greatly endanger the hunt, something I am not willing to risk.

[dana]

While this debate has jumped from grizzly baiting to black bear baiting to chasing calis with choppers, one thing is clear, it is indeed pretty entertaining.

Muley Madness,
I don't know how many times I have to say "IT IS NOT AN ISSUE OF ETHICS". I am not saying other jursidictions are more ethical than we are or we are more ethical than other jursidictions. ETHICS do not play into the context. It is instead a matter of personal preference. To say hunting black bears over bait is unethical means you then need to make the jump like Californicated and Oregone and ban the use of hounds too. And while you are at that, you better just shut down the spring bear hunt like Ontareoeo, because gawd forbid a sow gets shot. To make blanket statements regarding certain hunting methods being "unethical" you set yourself on one slippery slope. Why is it ethical to bait deer, wolves, coyotes and cougars yet it is unethical to bait bears? Where do you draw the line? Some hunters like to sit in treestands and hunt whiteys with an attractant within bowrange. Is this unethical? While I personally could never sit in a treestand for longer than 5 mins, I will not jump on the hunter who chooses that way to hunt and call him 'unethical'. It seems some on this thread are blurring the lines of 'Fair Chase' with 'Personal Preference.'

[dana]

Appreciate your comments. Your input is always welcome. Try looking at the bigger picture with harassing Bighorns with Choppers for monetery gain, by anyone.
Just to mention, three out of my six books have gone ''Bestseller in Canada" Bighorns and Stone sheep, did it before I posted my first thread on the Forum. I am, Sir, and remain, your humble and obedient servant.

Yet another one of your free plugs on this board. Good to hear you are selling so many books. Good to hear you can still do it without this site and after your have burned your rep with numerous sheep hunters. You know your business well.:mrgreen:

[MuleyMadness]

How is a logging road with human sown clover growing on the side of it and a cut block NOT an artificially created situation?
:-D

Well I guess that is a point...they don't do that much around here that I have seen so I was more thinking of just regular cut blocks with 2 or 3 year old growth. Do they actually still replant roads in clover?

it's somewhat hard ot judge how it would be received, seeing as the anti hunting groups ALREADY are against ALL forms of bear hunting!
:wink:

Yes...that is true, but the political sway lies with the non hunters who aren't opposed now but with 'slanderous Suzuki' manipulating the media and 'jouralists' how long do you think their indifference would last? Penner says they use science, but when push comes to shove, they are elected politicians who will do what is politically expedient.

[safarichris]

Hey Chris –good to see that you and Dana are on talking terms again more or less.:wink:
I partially agree with you re: post #65 & MuleyMadness #62. I would make an exception for handicapped bear hunters though!

“I can count several professionals who lost thier lives doing just that. They guided Grizzly hunters all thier lives, but made just one mistake on a kill that a G.Bear made or claimed.” -could you expound on that!
An Alaskan Outfitter /Guide called Cappy Capesello, walked into a Grizzly kill, not knowing the bear had made one. He had spotted the Grizzly and stationed his hunter in a position, then went in to flush the bear out. The Bear immedietly attacked and broke his back. He did get one shot off and and scared the bear away. Upon hearing this shot, the hunter arrived on the sceane, only to find his guide all shewd up. He explained to his hunter, how to operated the radio in the plane several miles away. The hunter went to call for help from the plane radio. The bear returned and finished off the Outfitter while he was gone. It was not a nice ending. many mistakes were made. A person gets careless after guiding many Grizzly Hunters and paid the price.
My good friend Jack Powell, who I worked with for many years, lived to tell, what a grizzly can do to a person.
A grizzly attacked both Jack and his hunter while horseback. The Bear slapped Jacks horse down and he rolled off. The bear had him on on the ground and was mauling him pretty good. The hunter galloped away and left him alone with the grizzly.The bear ripped his scalp, punctured his lungs and chewed his side and leg. He was lucky there was a cliff nearby and rolled over it. The bear would not let go of his foot as he hung over the ledge. After clinging onto a limb from a tree for several hours, with the bear trying every way possible to get at him, the bear gave up and wondered away.
The facts are, that many things can go terribly wrong when you are in grizzly country. Some big old Boars have attitudes and are not affraid to show it.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

that makes the hair on my neck stand up!!!! i don't support baiting grizzlies!! any new books chris?

[safarichris]

Yet another one of your free plugs on this board. Good to hear you are selling so many books. Good to hear you can still do it without this site and after your have burned your rep with numerous sheep hunters. You know your business well.:mrgreen:
Dear dana
Sheep hunters are a breed of their own. I can say that I have been a part of the privileged breed, and proud of it. They have patience and are quite capable at separating the wheat from the chaff. I have a lot of respect for a sheep hunter and can usually tell them apart from other hunters. I am getting to old for all this crap dana. My back hurts, my knees hurt and I have to get up several times at night to empty my bladder. Can we just move on and end it.
There are a hell of a lot more important issues out there, than you and I slinging bouquets back and forth.

[safarichris]

that makes the hair on my neck stand up!!!! i don't support baiting grizzlies!! any new books chris?
I would like to do one more hunting book before I croak with a whole lot of great hunting stories and the guides that spent their whole life in persuit of the Monarchs of the Crags. Some of the old time guides have great stories to tell. I think it would be great to compile all this for campfire reading.

[Ambush]

These are horrific stories Chris, and demomstrate the need for awareness when in grizzly territiory.
But what does it have to do with bating? It sounds like the first one stumbled on a kill that the grizzly made himself and the other was a case of in the wrong place at the wrong time.



An Alaskan Outfitter /Guide called Cappy Capesello, walked into a Grizzly kill, not knowing the bear had made one. He had spotted the Grizzly and stationed his hunter in a position, then went in to flush the bear out. The Bear immedietly attacked and broke his back. He did get one shot off and and scared the bear away. Upon hearing this shot, the hunter arrived on the sceane, only to find his guide all shewd up. He explained to his hunter, how to operated the radio in the plane several miles away. The hunter went to call for help from the plane radio. The bear returned and finished off the Outfitter while he was gone. It was not a nice ending. many mistakes were made. A person gets careless after guiding many Grizzly Hunters and paid the price.
My good friend Jack Powell, who I worked with for many years, lived to tell, what a grizzly can do to a person.
A grizzly attacked both Jack and his hunter while horseback. The Bear slapped Jacks horse down and he rolled off. The bear had him on on the ground and was mauling him pretty good. The hunter galloped away and left him alone with the grizzly.The bear ripped his scalp, punctured his lungs and chewed his side and leg. He was lucky there was a cliff nearby and rolled over it. The bear would not let go of his foot as he hung over the ledge. After clinging onto a limb from a tree for several hours, with the bear trying every way possible to get at him, the bear gave up and wondered away.
The facts are, that many things can go terribly wrong when you are in grizzly country. Some big old Boars have attitudes and are not affraid to show it.

[dana]

Dear dana
Sheep hunters are a breed of their own. I can say that I have been a part of the privileged breed, and proud of it. They have patience and are quite capable at separating the wheat from the chaff. I have a lot of respect for a sheep hunter and can usually tell them apart from other hunters. I am getting to old for all this crap dana. My back hurts, my knees hurt and I have to get up several times at night to empty my bladder. Can we just move on and end it.
There are a hell of a lot more important issues out there, than you and I slinging bouquets back and forth.

Chris,
I was just showing everyone how easy it is to bait an ol' grizz.:twisted:

[safarichris]

These are horrific stories Chris, and demomstrate the need for awareness when in grizzly territiory.
But what does it have to do with bating? It sounds like the first one stumbled on a kill that the grizzly made himself and the other was a case of in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yes, I have witnessed the baiting of grizzly bears. I watched several old timers do it forty years ago. From my observations, you had better have your crap together. There are several VERY important things that Have to be done to be successful when shooting with a rifle. I would hate to even comment on a possible archery stand, with a thousand pound grizzly bellow the tree stand.
It would take bigger balls than I have, and I have harvested several thousand pounders. I want all the odds totally in my favor, and still things can go terribly wrong. Most adult bears, the big fellas, come into the area just before dark, or early in the morning. Either way, you are going to be in the immediate area, in the dark, with a hungry G Bear in close proximity. I say once again, some big boars have attitudes and can be VERY aggressive. A bullet or arrow, means very little to them, when they have you in their sights. They don't just slap the ground here and there making threatening moves, they will focus on you, flat come after your ass and make every move count. A thousand pound G.bear, can be like a steamroller. I have had hunters, jack every round out of the magazine, without firing a single shot when he is coming.
What I am trying to say is, don't take this all lightly.

[Ambush]

What I am trying to say is, don't take this all lightly.[/quote]
I'm not taking it lightly. But crawling around the alders with a bow and bear spray trying to get within bow range of a grizzly on the ground isn't easy either. I've tried it a number of times. I'd try it more but LEH hates me. It would seem much easier to me to be able to pick your spot and have the bear come to you.
My next grizzly will be with a bow. Happily, salmon streams are not considered bait.:-D

They do allow baiting for grizzly in certain units in Alaska and the first one taken was by a bow hunter. Mind you this same bow hunter sat by a den, in the snow, for hours waiting for a grizzly to come out. The bear came out and he stuck it at less than thirty yards.

[safarichris]

What I am trying to say is, don't take this all lightly.
I'm not taking it lightly. But crawling around the alders with a bow and bear spray trying to get within bow range of a grizzly on the ground isn't easy either. I've tried it a number of times. I'd try it more but LEH hates me. It would seem much easier to me to be able to pick your spot and have the bear come to you.
My next grizzly will be with a bow. Happily, salmon streams are not considered bait.:-D

They do allow baiting for grizzly in certain units in Alaska and the first one taken was by a bow hunter. Mind you this same bow hunter sat by a den, in the snow, for hours waiting for a grizzly to come out. The bear came out and he stuck it at less than thirty yards.[/quote]
If you succeed in taking a Grizzly with a bow, I sure will take my hat of to you. The salmon run sounds interesting. I am sure it would work. Would you incorporate a backup with a rifle, or just only a bow? Gutsy either way.

[PhOeNiCiAn1]

BromBones:
You are right no need to bring the ethical issue, I thing is a matter of personal choice, I am not for baiting Bears, I incline more to education, coming from the basics "identify Your target and beyond" I will say that LEH is in spring, if Sows are around surly will have Cubs and that is a good sign for NOT Shooting.
If bait is used it will attract Sows and Boars as well, Boars can kill Cubs.
Every action We do can bring a chain reaction that could harm Bears and Hunters.
I think that so far the best proven strategy is the one in place by the MoE and Wildlife Management:
Hunters in BC are prohibited from killing adult female grizzly bears that are accompanied by young or any grizzly bear that is younger than 2 years old. Failure to adhere to these rules can result in extensive fines. Any kill must be inspected by a Compulsory Inspector within the allotted time. Another reason that supports the sustainable hunting of grizzly bears is that grizzly bear cubs enjoy a high survival rate. This is partly because grizzly bear mothers make great mothers; they are extremely protective of their young. Additionally, grizzlies are at the top of their food chain and as such have access to resources and no real predators. More so, cubs are protected from hunters, as previously mentioned. In fact one of the biggest threats to cubs are adult male grizzlies. This is because grizzly bears practice sexually selected infanticide, in which new males will kill the previous dominant male’s cubs in order to mate with the female mother. Since males have shown to be more susceptible to harvest, due to their larger size which represents a larger trophy, it was suggested that hunting would increase infanticide. A study in 2005 found that there was no apparent increase in infanticide in areas where hunting was permitted and areas where hunting was prohibited.
Not only is hunting highly regulated but the money generated from hunting through license fees, taxes, and other special fees help to fund grizzly bear research, habitat protection, and management. In fact, the biggest threat to grizzly bears is the loss of habitat and fragmentation, not hunting.

[Darksith]

I'm not taking it lightly. But crawling around the alders with a bow and bear spray trying to get within bow range of a grizzly on the ground isn't easy either. I've tried it a number of times. I'd try it more but LEH hates me. It would seem much easier to me to be able to pick your spot and have the bear come to you.
My next grizzly will be with a bow. Happily, salmon streams are not considered bait.:-D

They do allow baiting for grizzly in certain units in Alaska and the first one taken was by a bow hunter. Mind you this same bow hunter sat by a den, in the snow, for hours waiting for a grizzly to come out. The bear came out and he stuck it at less than thirty yards.
If you succeed in taking a Grizzly with a bow, I sure will take my hat of to you. The salmon run sounds interesting. I am sure it would work. Would you incorporate a backup with a rifle, or just only a bow? Gutsy either way.

Just because you have been on the ground sneaking around trying to get close to a grizz doesn't mean much. I grizz feeding off 1 million salmon is one thing, they don't get too pushy. Ive fished enough steelhead on the babine river to know how a grizz behaves when its salmon time. That being said, Ive also seen how mad/defensive a bear will get on a gut pile or an animal it has taken down. I for one never want to be in that situation again, and I really wouldn't want to be up a tree near something that it claimed as its own. It will bring that tree with you in it down. I have seen trees shredded to the point of falling over around the 10' mark. They weren't small trees, probably 24" in diamater. Ive also seen a grizzly take down an entire cabin so that nothing was sticking up over 2' high. You go sneaking around with your bear spray all you want. But if you ever get unlucky and find yourself sneaking up on a bear with something that it is protecting then you better be lucky or you'll be dead. A bear in a berry patch is 1 thing. A bear coming at you to defend its kill is a whole nother level. Watching a bear come at you up a hill pushing itself up with its hind legs b/c you shot out its front shoulders and are reloading is something you will never forget. They get angry and I never wanna see a bear on a kill again.

[Ambush]

Thanks, I guess. I've seen one or two grizzlies in my life to. I guess the ones I've seen didn't have the "Horriblis" in the "Ursus"


Just because you have been on the ground sneaking around trying to get close to a grizz doesn't mean much. I grizz feeding off 1 million salmon is one thing, they don't get too pushy. Ive fished enough steelhead on the babine river to know how a grizz behaves when its salmon time. That being said, Ive also seen how mad/defensive a bear will get on a gut pile or an animal it has taken down. I for one never want to be in that situation again, and I really wouldn't want to be up a tree near something that it claimed as its own. It will bring that tree with you in it down. I have seen trees shredded to the point of falling over around the 10' mark. They weren't small trees, probably 24" in diamater. Ive also seen a grizzly take down an entire cabin so that nothing was sticking up over 2' high. You go sneaking around with your bear spray all you want. But if you ever get unlucky and find yourself sneaking up on a bear with something that it is protecting then you better be lucky or you'll be dead. A bear in a berry patch is 1 thing. A bear coming at you to defend its kill is a whole nother level. Watching a bear come at you up a hill pushing itself up with its hind legs b/c you shot out its front shoulders and are reloading is something you will never forget. They get angry and I never wanna see a bear on a kill again.