Potential Buck Limit Changes

[ARC]

From what I have read, there is a proposal to change the provincial limit of whitetail bucks to 1. Apparently there is also a southern mule deer strategy out there that recommends changing the mule buck deer limit to 1.

If there is no conservation concern on these species, why the reduction in buck harvest? I dont know the details, but I thought alot of people were upset with the bag limit reduction in region 5 last year, saying it was unnecessary. However, it seems some who were opposed to that reduction are not opposed to this further reduction. Can someone please fill me in on the rationale.

Also, since it is a 'southern' mule deer strategy, I assume the 1 buck limit wouldn't be province wide (ie. someone could take a second buck up north)?

I am not really clear on the proposals and would appreciate some info from guys in the know. Thanks in advance for any input.

[Jelvis]

One little deer ain't going to give much meat..better off going after moose.
De-bone a deer and how much meat do you get? A. 100 pounds B. 50 pounds C. 40 pounds
Answer --- guess first

[dana]

I for one was never against the reduction to 1 buck in Region 5. I personally thought they were friggin nuts to have that 2 buck limit in 5 for all those years. I also believe that this is one of the reasons why there is a so-called buck to doe ratio issue in 5. What pissed me off about 5 is the mismanagement from the current manager by opening up the rut to Any-buck a few years back and still keeping the 2 deer limit. He created his own so-called nightmare. Because of mismanagement, he then decided to screw Region 3 by closing the rut hunt completely, pushing many hunters that hunted Region 5 in the rut to hunt Region 3. It was a recipe for diaster for 3. Thank God for $hitty conditions in the late season last year. If there had of been good conditions with a high harvest, Region 3 would have been forced to follow the $hitty seasons of the other regions because of conservation concerns, being the lone southern region with a rut hunt. That is what made me so pissed off at the Region 5 manager.

Now with that background is why I applaud the proposal for a 1 buck Southern Interior Limit. No one manager is left out in the cold by the lack of balls by the other managers. The bulk of hunters will stay home and hunt locally. If they want their 3 deer limit for meat in the freezer, they will be forced to hunt the invasive whitey. No more "Gong Show" mentality by forcing a large amount of hunters into a small area, like say the Gang or Clearwater, due to hunters bouncing from Region to Region following the different seasons.

[dana]

One little deer ain't going to give much meat..better off going after moose.
De-bone a deer and how much meat do you get? A. 100 pounds B. 50 pounds C. 40 pounds
Answer --- guess first

Jelly, you don't have to kill just muleys. Remember there is going to be a GOS on whitetail does. On top of that some Regions will have a 2 whitetail limit. That is 3 deer total for one Region. And if you don't think you can get a whitetail in your area, you can bet the LEH odds on muley does are going to be more realistic at drawing with less people pounding the same units.

[Jelvis]

I can't wait to see the 2010 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis it should be a lot of changes by the sound of it. Season length, bag limits etc.
Everyone is waiting to open that little book and see for themselves if the rumors are true. Very interesting and exciting.

[dana]

There is a long wait until mid July. A lot of people will have to have their holidays booked before then. Makes for a interesting gamble when it comes to putting in LEH this year don't it?

[Wild one]

I think a 1 mule buck limit would be a good thing for spreading presser as well and improving the ratio. I my opinion this province needs to change the way things have been managed in the past years.

[Farmer]

Makes for a interesting gamble when it comes to putting in LEH this year don't it?

Isn't that the truth. Trying to plan a hunt, which you may or may not get drawn for, to coincide with open seasons that may or may not be open is quite the crapshoot.
Factor in the weather in the fall when we are trying to get our last crops off and we are just about limited to November:icon_frow.
Oh well, "Nil " is open all year.

[Ozone]

If they have a one buck limit, more people will take WT does, who may not have before.

[Fisher-Dude]

I think a 1 mule buck limit would be a good thing for spreading presser as well and improving the ratio. I my opinion this province needs to change the way things have been managed in the past years.

Is the ratio in trouble? I've seen no evidence of that. In fact, the most recent survey (January 2010) I have for region 8 shows buck:doe ratios at 24:100 and 33:100, and this was a late spring count where some of the bucks had already shed (some one-antlered bucks were observed). The minimum ratio target post-hunt is 20:100 for mule deer. So, not sure where you're getting the idea that the ratio needs to be improved.

IMO, reduction of buck bag limits when we have admittedly some of the highest numbers of mule and whitetailed deer ever across the southern interior is wrong. This will cause nothing but a further depression of hunter numbers, and play straight into the wishes of GOABC. Deer are a meat species and should be managed as such, NOT for stockpiling trophy animals for foreigners.

[Jelvis]

I want a trophy animal ...

[ARC]

Is the ratio in trouble? I've seen no evidence of that. In fact, the most recent survey (January 2010) I have for region 8 shows buck:doe ratios at 24:100 and 33:100, and this was a late spring count where some of the bucks had already shed (some one-antlered bucks were observed). The minimum ratio target post-hunt is 20:100 for mule deer. So, not sure where you're getting the idea that the ratio needs to be improved.

IMO, reduction of buck bag limits when we have admittedly some of the highest numbers of mule and whitetailed deer ever across the southern interior is wrong. This will cause nothing but a further depression of hunter numbers, and play straight into the wishes of GOABC. Deer are a meat species and should be managed as such, NOT for stockpiling trophy animals for foreigners.

This is why I am still not clear on the reasoning behind the change.

From what I have heard overall buck:doe ratios are fine. Are they not?

Are they trying to force guys to take WT does?

Are they trying to stop guys from bouncing around from region to region? If the animals are doing fine, who cares if guys do this? Also, I thought there was talk about aligning seasons among regions. You would think this would help to address the problem (if it is one).

I just don't understand why they would reduce any opportunity if populations are at near highs and growing.

[Wild one]

Is the ratio in trouble? I've seen no evidence of that. In fact, the most recent survey (January 2010) I have for region 8 shows buck:doe ratios at 24:100 and 33:100, and this was a late spring count where some of the bucks had already shed (some one-antlered bucks were observed). The minimum ratio target post-hunt is 20:100 for mule deer. So, not sure where you're getting the idea that the ratio needs to be improved.

IMO, reduction of buck bag limits when we have admittedly some of the highest numbers of mule and whitetailed deer ever across the southern interior is wrong. This will cause nothing but a further depression of hunter numbers, and play straight into the wishes of GOABC. Deer are a meat species and should be managed as such, NOT for stockpiling trophy animals for foreigners.

Some areas I would say yes the ratio does seem off balance but not all areas by far. I would rather see it any buck season from Sept to Nov with a 1 mule buck a year limit to spread out the presser than the gong show you see in a lot of areas for the any buck season we see now. In my opinion I think the harvest numbers would still be good do to a longer time of no point restrictions.

I am no Bio and this is just my opinion

[GoatGuy]

Some areas I would say yes the ratio does seem off balance but not all areas by far. I would rather see it any buck season from Sept to Nov with a 1 mule buck a year limit to spread out the presser than the gong show you see in a lot of areas for the any buck season we see now. In my opinion I think the harvest numbers would still be good do to a longer time of no point restrictions.

I am no Bio and this is just my opinion

Which areas are buck/doe ratios low?

[xian]

I think the bouncing around from one to none to 4 points to any buck is just crazy. What's wrong with just having 2point or better and leaving it that way. From what I hear is as soon as you start getting good numbers of good deer to hunt (ie 4 points or better) they open it up to any buck and this kills the hunting in that region for several years. Just keep the rules on the side of caution and let deer populations go up and if they start need culling open up LEH draws in the area like they did this year in 7-20 for cow elk. That way we wouldn't have this teeter totter to ride. New regs out end of June start of July says service BC and they will be for the next two years

[BlacktailStalker]

You guys are fortunate a good buck will go 200lbs+, blacktails on the other hand ... ;)

[Wild one]

Parts of reg 2 and south eastern region 5 are were I see a problem in reg 8 and parts of reg 3 I would say it has improved a lot again this is just my opinion.

It may be that after a few years living in Alberta hunting crown land out there and seeing a higher buck to doe ratio then here I expect to see more. You also don't have the crowded gong show seasons out there at least were I hunted and the number of hunters is greater than BC. It was rare to here guys getting not getting a buck out there.

[GoatGuy]

Parts of reg 2 and south eastern region 5 are were I see a problem in reg 8 and parts of reg 3 I would say it has improved a lot again this is just my opinion.

It may be that after a few years living in Alberta hunting crown land out there and seeing a higher buck to doe ratio then here I expect to see more. You also don't have the crowded gong show seasons out there at least were I hunted and the number of hunters is greater than BC. It was rare to here guys getting not getting a buck out there.

Yes, you will see higher buck:doe ratios in many areas of Alberta and fewer hunters, they're on LEH. They also have moderate antlerless mule deer harvest in Alberta as well.

There are areas like that in BC, they are simply more difficult to access.

[hunter1947]

I am all for the one deer buck limit ,if you think about it realy how much meat does a person really need when you can target other animals.

If your a meat hunter or if not then if not then hold out for Mr big..

[Fisher-Dude]

I am all for the one deer buck limit ,if you think about it realy how much meat does a person really need when you can target other animals.

If your a meat hunter or if not then if not then hold out for Mr big..

How long does 60 lbs of deer meat last a family of four? Deer harvest is much more likely than moose or elk, and there is little hope that the family can rely on one of the big guys to fill the freezer.

Spike/fork moose seasons have been cut back by 33% this year, with the hunt moved out of the rut, and all southern interior elk is currently on 6 point. Also, many SI regions like 3 and 5 do not have an elk season, and 5 doesn't even have a moose season. How is it fair to residents in those regions to cut the limit on deer to one across the whole province?

If there were ANY hint of needing to reduce harvest for conservation reasons, I'd be at the front of the line demanding it. Right now, we have the HIGHEST deer populations we've ever had, so reducing the limit is utter stupidity.

[dana]

FD,
I'm not seeing a reduction in meat for hunters. Still 3 deer. Shoot the damn whitetails. They actually taste really damn good. Especially those does. A young family of four can easily be sustained on 3 deer. Once the kids get older and eat more, they themselves can kill 3 deer too. 6 or 9 deer is plenty. Why does your deer meat have to be just muley bucks? If those hunters in Region 3 and 5 can't seem to find a whitetail, then they can travel to another region like 4, 8, and 7 to shoot one. They were traveling for their mulitple muley bucks in the past, if it is all about the meat, then why can't they travel to get a whitey? A lot of hunters that travel are doing so because they want a Big Muley Buck. But they are only wannabe trophy hunters so they get excited and whack a dink buck and then play the "meat" card. They jump from hotspot to hotspot trying to find that elusive "200 incher behind every tree" area. This attitude creates the GONG SHOW that many complain about. And meanwhile the sneaky whitetail multiplys and multiplys with no one caring and no one hunting them. Gotta do something to get hunters to kill them. A one muley buck limit will do just that.

[GoatGuy]

FD,
I'm not seeing a reduction in meat for hunters. Still 3 deer. Shoot the damn whitetails. They actually taste really damn good. Especially those does. A young family of four can easily be sustained on 3 deer. Once the kids get older and eat more, they themselves can kill 3 deer too. 6 or 9 deer is plenty. Why does your deer meat have to be just muley bucks?

Not commenting on the BL just the 'sustain' bit.

Think we had 5 deer in the freezer last year. Steaks and roasts are pretty much gone, none 'given away'.

Two of us here.

[Fisher-Dude]

FD,
I'm not seeing a reduction in meat for hunters. Still 3 deer. Shoot the damn whitetails. They actually taste really damn good. Especially those does. A young family of four can easily be sustained on 3 deer. Once the kids get older and eat more, they themselves can kill 3 deer too. 6 or 9 deer is plenty. Why does your deer meat have to be just muley bucks?

The question is not what I like to hunt, it is why should limits be curtailed when we have more deer than we know what to do with?

We have a large proportion of the hunting population who are the "don't shoot does" old guys, who will say f### it, and hang up the old 30/06 when they can't hunt bucks. We need those guys to keep hunting and show their kids and grandkids what it's all about.

I'll plunk a WT doe. My buddies will too. No worries there. My 250 savage is sighted in with 1.5" groups at 100 yards, ready to go. :wink: It just makes no sense to pander to the GOABC who want to cut our harvest and opportunity off.

ETA - Every year, I eat 2 1/2 deer, plus any moose or elk that I try to stretch over 2 or 3 years. There's me and the mutt here - he gets the silverskin off the edge of the chops.

[dana]

We had 5 deer last year and we eat vension 3 or 4 meals a week, with my lunches made up of leftovers. I am a big fan of a bag o' meat for lunch. Will be close but we should make it to Sept on what we've got left.

[dana]

FD,
You've just made my point then. If guys are unwilling to shoot does, then they ain't just meat hunters are they? Are you saying we should cater to trophy hunter wannabes? Personally, I think we should move towards a higher provincial baglimit and bucks should only be allowed after you shoot 2 whitetail does.

[GoatGuy]

FD,
You've just made my point then. If guys are unwilling to shoot does, then they ain't just meat hunters are they? Are you saying we should cater to trophy hunter wannabes? Personally, I think we should move towards a higher provincial baglimit and bucks should only be allowed after you shoot 2 whitetail does.

There are certainly meat hunters who won't shoot does.

You'll notice the old mentality the you can't shoot does is still very prevalent in BC.. "A farmer doesn't shoot his cows, why would I shoot a doe?" Uninformed, yes, but that's the social side. It's been going on in BC since the 50s, I don't see it changing anytime soon.

Re the BL - In either case we should be looking at managing wildlife.

[Fisher-Dude]

FD,
You've just made my point then. If guys are unwilling to shoot does, then they ain't just meat hunters are they? Are you saying we should cater to trophy hunter wannabes? Personally, I think we should move towards a higher provincial baglimit and bucks should only be allowed after you shoot 2 whitetail does.

I think they consider themselves meat hunters, as they pop the first buck that presents itself. There are just many guys who refuse to shoot does, usually because their old man told them it was "bad." Hell, look at the number of guys on here that oppose the WT doe GOS! :?

Some of the US states demand that a certain number of WT does must be shot before a buck can be taken. Of course, they have a million WT in a state the size of Vermont.

I just see absolutely no conservation reason for reducing the buck limit. I do agree with you 100% and see a reason to increase the overall provincial bag limit to allow "bonus WT does" to be harvested.

[Jelvis]

Look Read my LIPS ... I WANT TROPHY SIZED ANIMULE
Jelly Head Cheese

[dana]

If the ol'timers don't shoot does, then we need to education the new generation. Your attempt at blaming the old guys doesn't hold water because I know many old guys that hunt and with their false teeth, bad eyes, lack of mobility ect, they aren't the guys shooting mulitple bucks every year. They are happy if they get 1. Many are happy just to ride along and watch the kids do the shooting. So in my mind, don't blame the old guys. We need to instead, educate the younger hunters that does not only make good table fare, harvesting them is necessary to manage herds. Instead we have let the younger guys play trophy hunter wannabes. We open and close seasons around the province to encourage the mass followings as everyone looks for that elusive monster. And because most of these hunters are insecure in their abilities and think that coming home empty is a waste, they pop a dink and use their "meat" hunting excuse. We have been catering to the trophy hunter wannabe for way way too long. If they indeed want to shoot a big buck, they should learn to hold their trigger fingers. If they want meat, there is plenty of opportunity in the southern interior to hunt and kill whitetails. They should be encouraged to do so.

[Jelvis]

I know native elders that teach do not KILL DOE to the young braves and princesses because she Mother of babies ...
Sooooooooooo whose right?
Tell me who is RIGHT Doh or No Doh
It's sooo confusing hunters please tell me now or I'll die
Can't both be right

[ARC]

FD,
You've just made my point then. If guys are unwilling to shoot does, then they ain't just meat hunters are they? Are you saying we should cater to trophy hunter wannabes? Personally, I think we should move towards a higher provincial baglimit and bucks should only be allowed after you shoot 2 whitetail does.

Why would it be 'catering' to guys who want to shoot bucks? I dont think allowing a guy to shoot 2 bucks would be taking opportunities away from others.

Personally I have never taken 2 mulies in a single season. However, I grew up in the WK and go back each year for an early season alpine hunt. If I happen to take a buck there in September, I would hate to sit out the late season rut hunt around Kamloops. I love chasing bucks around in the alpine and during the rut. I dont see why I shouldnt be able to continue to do this if it is sustainable, especially if deer numbers are doing extremely well.

[Jelvis]

I know how to tell what you are .. LISTEN UP
....MAKE a Choice! ... Your hunting mule deer and see two deer a mature queen of a doe and small fawn
...Doe is dry but looking after the orphaned fawn the fawn is seven months old just over half the size of mommy deer ..you got an antlerless valid tag for mule ...
...THEN out of nowhere a Monster Mule Buck walks out an incredible one you got a tag and have not shot a buck yet...
Choice, shoot the lonely tiny furry forsaken fawn or the Record Monster Roman Nosed Buck 36 inches w--i--d--e
Thick at the bases like a Louisville slugger baseball bats are .. tines purrr fect lee even 20 inches in length from the fork dufas..
What would you choose? Big B.C. record, a typical giant mule deer buck four points each wide side or the little orphaned fawn?

[Everett]

Any reduction of resident bag limits is unacceptable when there is room for foreign hunters to shoot the same species.
And yes whitetail are tasty but there is very little meat on a WT doe compared to a mule deer buck. So that comparison does not hold water.
This year my wife and I will eat two MD bucks both big deer, one WT buck and a black bear and we still will run out before sept.
Three WT does basicly equals one big MD buck.

[GoatGuy]

If the ol'timers don't shoot does, then we need to education the new generation. Your attempt at blaming the old guys doesn't hold water because I know many old guys that hunt and with their false teeth, bad eyes, lack of mobility ect, they aren't the guys shooting mulitple bucks every year. They are happy if they get 1. Many are happy just to ride along and watch the kids do the shooting. So in my mind, don't blame the old guys. We need to instead, educate the younger hunters that does not only make good table fare, harvesting them is necessary to manage herds. Instead we have let the younger guys play trophy hunter wannabes. We open and close seasons around the province to encourage the mass followings as everyone looks for that elusive monster. And because most of these hunters are insecure in their abilities and think that coming home empty is a waste, they pop a dink and use their "meat" hunting excuse. We have been catering to the trophy hunter wannabe for way way too long. If they indeed want to shoot a big buck, they should learn to hold their trigger fingers. If they want meat, there is plenty of opportunity in the southern interior to hunt and kill whitetails. They should be encouraged to do so.

Not blaming the old guys, it's a hunter thing.

It isn't just BC, it's taken a long time to get people to wrap their minds around sustainable wildlife management and it is still a problem in most of North America. It's no different than buck:doe ratios.

Often people simply don't believe the science. :-|

[dana]

Why would it be 'catering' to guys who want to shoot bucks? I dont think allowing a guy to shoot 2 bucks would be taking opportunities away from others.

Personally I have never taken 2 mulies in a single season. However, I grew up in the WK and go back each year for an early season alpine hunt. If I happen to take a buck there in September, I would hate to sit out the late season rut hunt around Kamloops. I love chasing bucks around in the alpine and during the rut. I dont see why I shouldnt be able to continue to do this if it is sustainable, especially if deer numbers are doing extremely well.

Why would you hate to miss the late season? Probably because that's a good time to kill a big buck right? If you want a big buck then you need to prioritize. A highcountry early season monster is just as thrilling as a late season monster. Actually, I personally find the highcountry more thrilling. You can easily do both by setting your standards and sticking to them. You want to kill a monster. Then don't whack a dink in the early season. Nothing wrong with coming home without cutting your tag. Just means you were sticking to your plan of killing a monster. Then you've got the late season hunt in 3 to continue your plan. 1 tag but 2 hunts. If by chance you do kill that buck of your dreams in the highcountry, trust me, you won't be disappointed if you miss the late season in the loops. Instead, you can try to get one of those Kamloops whiteys and have a blast doing that.

[dana]

Any reduction of resident bag limits is unacceptable when there is room for foreign hunters to shoot the same species.
And yes whitetail are tasty but there is very little meat on a WT doe compared to a mule deer buck. So that comparison does not hold water.
This year my wife and I will eat two MD bucks both big deer, one WT buck and a black bear and we still will run out before sept.
Three WT does basicly equals one big MD buck.

Why don't you hunt LEH muley does, moose and elk if meat is your goal. Currently you have to travel from Region to Region to kill muliple muley bucks. What's to stop you from hunting other species in other Regions? For goodness sake, we live in a game rich province and what we have in GOS is utterly amazing when compared to the rest of North America. Open your horizons and see how awesome this province really is.

[dana]

Not blaming the old guys, it's a hunter thing.

It isn't just BC, it's taken a long time to get people to wrap their minds around sustainable wildlife management and it is still a problem in most of North America. It's no different than buck:doe ratios.

Often people simply don't believe the science. :-|

And again, I call Bull$hit on the claim that hunters in this province are more focused on Meat than antlers. If you want the attitudes to change, then stop giving in to their so-called "meat" claim.

[ARC]

Why would you hate to miss the late season? Probably because that's a good time to kill a big buck right? If you want a big buck then you need to prioritize. A highcountry early season monster is just as thrilling as a late season monster. Actually, I personally find the highcountry more thrilling. You can easily do both by setting your standards and sticking to them. You want to kill a monster. Then don't whack a dink in the early season. Nothing wrong with coming home without cutting your tag. Just means you were sticking to your plan of killing a monster. Then you've got the late season hunt in 3 to continue your plan. 1 tag but 2 hunts. If by chance you do kill that buck of your dreams in the highcountry, trust me, you won't be disappointed if you miss the late season in the loops. Instead, you can try to get one of those Kamloops whiteys and have a blast doing that.

I know what your saying. In all honesty I probably wouldnt kill 2 bucks anyways.

However, I just want to know why do you think it is appropriate or important to take away the current opportunity? Is it doing damage to the deer herds?

That is why I started this thread. I just want to know why the government thinks it is necessary to reduce the current opportunity. If damage is being done under the current regulations, then I have no problem with the changes.

[Jelvis]

Lots of antlerless up the nor but a few years back was 200 plus antlerless leh tags in MU 3-28a and b and now we got around 40 so but I do see lots of antlerless still late in season after the rut starts down lower.

[dana]

Arc,
Yes, what we have currently been doing is indeed detrimental to the mule deer in this province. Not because we are killing too many mule deer, but because we aren't killing any where close to enough whitetails. Many areas of Region 8 and 4 are experiencing the negative results of these actions. The whitetail keeps on expanding and taking over. Not only are the muleys hunted hard, they are being pushed out by their small evasive cousins. How else will we get people to start hunting and killing whitetails? Do we wait until they have completely taken over before we change our strategy. The GOS on whitetail does is a good step in the right direction. But it won't work if everyone keeps filling their 3 deer baglimit on muley bucks. I don't see this as catering to the GOABC, I instead see this as one of the only ways to actually get people killing whitetails.

[peashooter]

i cant wait to finally be able to "bust a cap" into one of those pest whiteys.

[ARC]

Arc,
Yes, what we have currently been doing is indeed detrimental to the mule deer in this province. Not because we are killing too many mule deer, but because we aren't killing any where close to enough whitetails. Many areas of Region 8 and 4 are experiencing the negative results of these actions. The whitetail keeps on expanding and taking over. Not only are the muleys hunted hard, they are being pushed out by their small evasive cousins. How else will we get people to start hunting and killing whitetails? Do we wait until they have completely taken over before we change our strategy. The GOS on whitetail does is a good step in the right direction. But it won't work if everyone keeps filling their 3 deer baglimit on muley bucks. I don't see this as catering to the GOABC, I instead see this as one of the only ways to actually get people killing whitetails.

I agree we should be taking more whitetails. I would like to see the bag limit of 3 increased to allow for higher antlerless doe harvest.

I just wasn't sure if this was the actual reasoning by the government for the proposed mule deer limit changes.

[Everett]

Why don't you hunt LEH muley does, moose and elk if meat is your goal. Currently you have to travel from Region to Region to kill muliple muley bucks. What's to stop you from hunting other species in other Regions? For goodness sake, we live in a game rich province and what we have in GOS is utterly amazing when compared to the rest of North America. Open your horizons and see how awesome this province really is.

I live in region 4 so no md doe season of any sort. We do hunt other animals as well and some years we do get a moose, caribou or an Elk. Last year I hunted regions 4, 8, 6, and 7b and have hunted evey region in BC in the last 5 years so my horizons are very wide I would take a wild guess that my horizons are alot larger than your own:wink: as a result of no kids no mortgage and the fact I don`t work in hunting season.
Personaly I have never shot two mule deer in the same season but this has bugger all to do with me it is the reduction in a BC hunters options on hunting that bothers me.

[dana]

i cant wait to finally be able to "bust a cap" into one of those pest whiteys.

It is my hope and prayer that there are a ton of hunters in this province willing to do just that.

The 'horn' mentality is just plain stupid. I know hunters in Region 3 that are passing up small whitetail bucks because they are looking for a big 'un. WTF? Do you really think you are going to find a Sask Size whitey in the North Thompson? Or are you holding out for the rare monster that scores a whopping 110-120? A dink is a dink is a dink. These guys see a legal buck and pass and then never cut their flippin tag come Dec 10th. And then they complain that they don't see the monster muleys like they used to. Duh!!!

[Everett]

Dana I just want to add I am also in favour of nailing lots of WT deer you can`t kill them off even if you try they are like rats. I am originaly from NS so have fair bit of exsperiance with them. Oh and a side note BC WT taste better then east coast WT.

[dana]

I live in region 4 so no md doe season of any sort. We do hunt other animals as well and some years we do get a moose, caribou or an Elk. Last year I hunted regions 4, 8, 6, and 7b and have hunted evey region in BC in the last 5 years so my horizons are very wide I would take a wild guess that my horizons are alot larger than your own:wink: as a result of no kids no mortgage and the fact I don`t work in hunting season.
Personaly I have never shot two mule deer in the same season but this has bugger all to do with me it is the reduction in a BC hunters options on hunting that bothers me.

If you had 2 muley bucks last year I'm assuming there is 2 of you hunting if you have never shot 2 mule deer in the same season. So how is that going to change if you are now limited to 1 muley buck in the Southern Region. You will still have 2 muley bucks in your freezer right?

The way I look at it, there isn't a reduction in oportunity. 3 deer is still 3 deer.

[Everett]

If you had 2 muley bucks last year I'm assuming there is 2 of you hunting if you have never shot 2 mule deer in the same season. So how is that going to change if you are now limited to 1 muley buck in the Southern Region. You will still have 2 muley bucks in your freezer right?

The way I look at it, there isn't a reduction in oportunity. 3 deer is still 3 deer.

Yes there is two of us hunting and like I said this has nothing to do with me personaly. To me any loss in oputunity to hunt is bad for BC hunters as a whole. Mind you I did go on a MD hunt with a good friend in region 8 that I would not have been able to do with the hypothetical regulation change.

[Jelvis]

HBC will teach you what you need to be a complete hunter/conservationist.
Hunters helping hunters, hunter friendly site.
Professionals sharing accurate up to date, diversified dynamic digits daily darn dats dandy doh lol ...
Jel My momma said, " To Knock You Out! " Lost Vages .. Narramatta ..
Thank you thank you very muschh .. EL EL Jelly ( the deli tour ) Pelvi$ Waylon was better than me.

[urbanhermit]

HBC will teach you what you need to be a complete hunter/conservationist.
Hunters helping hunters, hunter friendly site.
Professionals sharing accurate up to date, diversified dynamic digits daily darn dats dandy doh lol ...
Jel My momma said, " To Knock You Out! " Lost Vages .. Narramatta ..
Thank you thank you very muschh .. EL EL Jelly ( the deli tour ) Pelvi$ Waylon was better than me.

Translation-honey, have you seen my medication?

[Jelvis]

Bucks .. Well it's one for the money, two for a doe, three to beat Jelly to a record buck or Doh .. Tie one on! .. Hic sordy tie one on ...
You only live TWICE .. Sean Connery .. 4 yor I's Only .. Dr. Shivago ..
Timothy Leary .. from Koka Moe .. Curly and Larry .. Yuk Yuk Yuk ...
Bye 4 now ..
Jelne$$

[urbanhermit]

Bucks .. Well it's one for the money, two for a doe, three to beat Jelly to a record buck or Doh .. Tie one on! .. Hic sordy tie one on ...
You only live TWICE .. Sean Connery .. 4 yor I's Only .. Dr. Shivago ..
Timothy Leary .. from Koka Moe .. Curly and Larry .. Yuk Yuk Yuk ...
Bye 4 now ..
Jelne$$

oh good, we found the meds, i was worried for a second there...

[Jelvis]

One buck two bucks and two antlerless 2 many for Elliot Ne$$ .. It's a me$$ to many
Remember JC Penny?
How about Tom Renny Kamloop$ Blazer did you forget your razor?
Ok it's time to lay it on the line, I want a nice antlerless for meat and a huge buck for a trophy and specialty sausage, smokies double smoked with Mesqwweeet mm yaayahh and this is off TOPIC
.....a MEAT MOO$E for real T- boned steaks .. Can't beat mooose better than elk
JelK

[GoatGuy]

And again, I call Bull$hit on the claim that hunters in this province are more focused on Meat than antlers. If you want the attitudes to change, then stop giving in to their so-called "meat" claim.

It's not a meat claim, it's simply a lack of education. It's a problem North America wide. Hunters are encouraged to harvest fawns in antlerless seasons in many states but uptake is 5% of the 'antlerless harvest'.

In the EK the MoE put a proposal forward to have a ewe LEH in the bull to reduce populations. That area has had severe die-offs because populations were not managed in the past. Hunters and outfitters would not support the season.

It all comes back to education.

[Jelvis]

I say the real Issue is Region boundaries at the borders...
1. Some can be tempted to shoot on one side or the other
Because gos lengths hunted are not identical in the past years
Make it one buck not two, and cancel your tag or it's poaching..witnesses etc
One white and one mule buck and gos for antlerless white and leh for mule antlerless much like what is shaping up in B.C. Regs.

[BCrams]

It's not a meat claim, it's simply a lack of education. It's a problem North America wide. Hunters are encouraged to harvest fawns in antlerless seasons in many states but uptake is 5% of the 'antlerless harvest'.

It all comes back to education.

Yep. Hence why we've taken more than a few 'fawns' with Peace River LEH tags. :mrgreen:

[mark]

A good sized muley buck= 100 lbs. boneless meat
Avg. whitey doe= 40 lbs boneless meat

In my younger days Ive shot 3 muleys/year, many years, and fully consumed all of them!

I have 1 question????? Why the drastic change???? Why go from a possibility of 3 down to 1.....why not move to 2 and see how that goes???
I enjoy hunting several different regions, sometimes its nice to plug a buck, have some meat in the freezer and then hold out for mr. big!

In 2008, I tried "muley tag soup" for the first time in my life.... it tastes like $hit!!!

[Ambush]

It's not a meat claim......It all comes back to education.

Here in reg 7, I think most hunters know that shooting calves is the right strategy for maintaining healthy moose numbers, while still offering hunting opportunities. BUT many hunters will not shoot calves.
In 30 years of moose hunting, I have never shot a calf and only one cow. I don't really like calf meat. The few steaks you get are great, but the burger is mushy. And with very high treestands and a spotting scope, I had no trouble killing little bulls.

I think part of the problem might be the perceived stigma of shooting "..only a doe". Real hunters shoot bucks. How many times on here do you see a post that starts with ".. well, not much of a buck, but.." or "...here's my meat buck" offered up as an apology for their failing to get a wall-hanger. Kind of a "third place" finish attitude.

In many US states where deer truly are a detriment, you have the earn-a-buck programs where you MUST shoot does before you can take a buck. Seems strange you would have to actually force hunters into killing more deer.

My hunting partner and I took part in the late doe archery season in Reg 6 for a few years, untill it closed. It was a great way to wind down the season. No pressure hunting, because the stakes weren't high. Great eating if you get one, but no big deal if you don't.

I'm not an all-or-nothing trophy hunter, and I am not really a meat hunter. But I have to go out with the desire and the expectation to kill something, or I'm not really even hunting. I just really, really like hunting. There is a good chance that I would drive all the way south just to shoot a doe, not because I need the meat, but simply for the hunt. Two years ago I drove all the way to Saskatoon to hunt for 1 1/2 days! Never flung an arrow, but was glad I went.

Maybe if dana would quit ragging on people for shooting dinks and rats, they could relax enough to shoot some does without feeling like their manhood is threatened.:wink:

Remove the negative stigma.

[Jelvis]

I'm going to BLAST a fawn or yearling this season if the good Lard willin and the Thompson don't rise.. a nice eater.. tender juicy and tasty not testy.
For real meat hunt it's moose, moose first then deer..
Moose is what people want for the huge amount of super meat ... wow.
Then young antlerless deer and then concentrate on mid to late season for Mr. Mo$$ Back Muley Non-Typical Roman Nosed Brush Buster BAMBURGER

[GoatGuy]

Arc,
Yes, what we have currently been doing is indeed detrimental to the mule deer in this province. Not because we are killing too many mule deer, but because we aren't killing any where close to enough whitetails. Many areas of Region 8 and 4 are experiencing the negative results of these actions. The whitetail keeps on expanding and taking over. Not only are the muleys hunted hard, they are being pushed out by their small evasive cousins. How else will we get people to start hunting and killing whitetails? Do we wait until they have completely taken over before we change our strategy. The GOS on whitetail does is a good step in the right direction. But it won't work if everyone keeps filling their 3 deer baglimit on muley bucks. I don't see this as catering to the GOABC, I instead see this as one of the only ways to actually get people killing whitetails.

Buck harvest and hunting seasons for mule deer aren't what's killing mule deer off. Our management is more conservative than many if not most jurisidictions in North America.

White-tailed deer are probably part of the issue due to the fact they are simply more productive and result in higher predator populations, not that they are pushing mule deer out, per say, simply that they are 'taking over' as a more productive species. Changing the MD bag limit won't solve that. As you've pointed out managing white-tails will help that but it isn't necessarily the 'big problem'.

Due to fire surpression and evolution habitat succession in BC favours white-tailed deer. In the SI habitat is probably the biggest issue mule deer face. NDT-3 and NDT-4 that hasn't burned in 40+ years.

If we want mule deer we need to manage the habitat. With good habitat we can have predators and white-tailed deer. With marginal habitat mule deer don't fare well with white-tailed deer and predators.

[hunter1947]

How long does 60 lbs of deer meat last a family of four? Deer harvest is much more likely than moose or elk, and there is little hope that the family can rely on one of the big guys to fill the freezer.

Spike/fork moose seasons have been cut back by 33% this year, with the hunt moved out of the rut, and all southern interior elk is currently on 6 point. Also, many SI regions like 3 and 5 do not have an elk season, and 5 doesn't even have a moose season. How is it fair to residents in those regions to cut the limit on deer to one across the whole province?

If there were ANY hint of needing to reduce harvest for conservation reasons, I'd be at the front of the line demanding it. Right now, we have the HIGHEST deer populations we've ever had, so reducing the limit is utter stupidity.


FD I would think that it would coast more money to bag a deer then to go to the store and by it ,I know that it coasts me more :wink:..

[6616]

FD I would think that it would coast more money to bag a deer then to go to the store and by it ,I know that it coasts me more :wink:..

Depends on the situation I think Wayne.

You aren't shooting does or cows, looking for mature bucks and bulls, and were travelling all the way from the Comox Valley to hunt the East Kootenay.

I myself made 10 trips to Saskatchewan over the years to hunt white tailed deer and shot three, always held out for 150 or better bucks.

Would also be interesting to add up all the money I've spent sheep hunting over the years just to shoot three rams. I've also got quite few hunting days invested into each bull elk I've shot since 1998 when the season went 6pt only.

On the other hand, last fall it took my Grandson and myself about an hour, a couple gallons of gas, and two cartridges to harvest two whitey does in the youth/senior season, and that was the only day I went hunting for the entire season, and I'm 100% positive I could repeat that happening again and again with current WTD populations.

Then there's one of my neighbors, retired, owns 80 acres of bush, takes any legal buck, and he shoots all his mule deer on his own property, usually with a bow.

[Sitkaspruce]

From what I have read, there is a proposal to change the provincial limit of whitetail bucks to 1. Apparently there is also a southern mule deer strategy out there that recommends changing the mule buck deer limit to 1.

If there is no conservation concern on these species, why the reduction in buck harvest? I dont know the details, but I thought alot of people were upset with the bag limit reduction in region 5 last year, saying it was unnecessary. However, it seems some who were opposed to that reduction are not opposed to this further reduction. Can someone please fill me in on the rationale.

Also, since it is a 'southern' mule deer strategy, I assume the 1 buck limit wouldn't be province wide (ie. someone could take a second buck up north)?

I am not really clear on the proposals and would appreciate some info from guys in the know. Thanks in advance for any input.

I am curious as to where you read this???

I have been looking and can't find it, although I am a long way from the interior.

And for me, I will shoot all deer, does and bucks, WT, MD and BT until the freezer is full or I run out of tags, money or time.:-D:wink:

Cheers

SS

[ARC]

I am curious as to where you read this???

I have been looking and can't find it, although I am a long way from the interior.

And for me, I will shoot all deer, does and bucks, WT, MD and BT until the freezer is full or I run out of tags, money or time.:-D:wink:

Cheers

SS

I haven't seen the mule deer strategy. I have just heard about it from folks on here.

The whitetail proposal is on the MOE website.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/managment-issues/index.html#wtdprov

I have just read through it and it looks to me that they removed the 1 buck 1 doe bag limit change. I believe it used to be listed on page 14 of the proposal under option 2. Hopefully that means it is no longer being considered? Unless they took it out of the proposal, but still plan on implementing it.

I know back in November when they were accepting comments, I wrote in to the Ministry asking them to keep the current 2 buck whitetail limit. Perhaps a bunch of guys did the same.

I don't know where or if you can find the southern interior mule deer strategy online.

[hunter1947]

Depends on the situation I think Wayne.

You aren't shooting does or cows, looking for mature bucks and bulls, and were travelling all the way from the Comox Valley to hunt the East Kootenay.

I myself made 10 trips to Saskatchewan over the years to hunt white tailed deer and shot three, always held out for 150 or better bucks.

Would also be interesting to add up all the money I've spent sheep hunting over the years just to shoot three rams. I've also got quite few hunting days invested into each bull elk I've shot since 1998 when the season went 6pt only.

On the other hand, last fall it took my Grandson and myself about an hour, a couple gallons of gas, and two cartridges to harvest two whitey does in the youth/senior season, and that was the only day I went hunting for the entire season, and I'm 100% positive I could repeat that happening again and again with current WTD populations.

Then there's one of my neighbors, retired, owns 80 acres of bush, takes any legal buck, and he shoots all his mule deer on his own property, usually with a bow.


Add the coast for fuel ware and tare on your truck or car ,your hunting license ,deer tag ,rifle bullets and butchering coasts.

[GoatGuy]

Here in reg 7, I think most hunters know that shooting calves is the right strategy for maintaining healthy moose numbers, while still offering hunting opportunities. BUT many hunters will not shoot calves.
In 30 years of moose hunting, I have never shot a calf and only one cow. I don't really like calf meat. The few steaks you get are great, but the burger is mushy. And with very high treestands and a spotting scope, I had no trouble killing little bulls.

I think part of the problem might be the perceived stigma of shooting "..only a doe". Real hunters shoot bucks. How many times on here do you see a post that starts with ".. well, not much of a buck, but.." or "...here's my meat buck" offered up as an apology for their failing to get a wall-hanger. Kind of a "third place" finish attitude.

In many US states where deer truly are a detriment, you have the earn-a-buck programs where you MUST shoot does before you can take a buck. Seems strange you would have to actually force hunters into killing more deer.

My hunting partner and I took part in the late doe archery season in Reg 6 for a few years, untill it closed. It was a great way to wind down the season. No pressure hunting, because the stakes weren't high. Great eating if you get one, but no big deal if you don't.

I'm not an all-or-nothing trophy hunter, and I am not really a meat hunter. But I have to go out with the desire and the expectation to kill something, or I'm not really even hunting. I just really, really like hunting. There is a good chance that I would drive all the way south just to shoot a doe, not because I need the meat, but simply for the hunt. Two years ago I drove all the way to Saskatoon to hunt for 1 1/2 days! Never flung an arrow, but was glad I went.

Maybe if dana would quit ragging on people for shooting dinks and rats, they could relax enough to shoot some does without feeling like their manhood is threatened.:wink:

Remove the negative stigma.

I think you're correct and that applies to many hunters and it is certainly a social problem. Some areas of the province are definitely worse than others when it comes to this social thing. One doesn't need to look beyond the hunting magazines and what they focus on.

It's funny because it isn't restricted solely to individuals shooting 'big' critters. You'll see folks who shoot an every day 4 pts and bug guys who harvest a spike or two point?? :confused: Or blame the guys shooting a two point like it would have been a big buck and they shouldn't have harvested it. Guys who make fun of people who are getting into sheep hunting who are shooting 6 year old rockies??


Having said that, there are several guide-outfitters and hunters in 7A who believe the calf harvest isn't sustainable and is/will be the 'decline' of moose in 7A. They genuinely believe that.

The calf season in Region 6 was canceled due to public pressure not the decadent nature of some hunters, more that they didn't believe the harvest strategy was sustainable.

Some people will try to understand it, others are so ingrained in their thinking ore are too worried about being wrong they won't even bother to try to understand how it works. So it goes.

[Jelvis]

A mule deer doe will have a single fawn the first gestation and if in healthy condition have two from then on .. so if you shoot the doe you kill three deer.
This is one older theory.
The mother has two fawns and then out of the fawns born there are more male fawns then females in the birthing time .. because natures way of evening out the pop because bucks live a more dangerous life.
This is what we were taught when younger ..
Now it's deer counts and winter range capabilities with biological study.. and many opinions on what the H is going on?
Jel .. One doe = three deer next year .. read em and weep

[bighornbob]

A mule deer doe will have a single fawn the first gestation and if in healthy condition have two from then on .. so if you shoot the doe you kill three deer.
This is one older theory.
The mother has two fawns and then out of the fawns born there are more male fawns then females in the birthing time .. because natures way of evening out the pop because bucks live a more dangerous life.
This is what we were taught when younger ..
Now it's deer counts and winter range capabilities with biological study.. and many opinions on what the H is going on?
Jel .. One doe = three deer next year .. read em and weep

If you kill a buck you kill off dozens of deer as he would have bred all the does. Do you like that theory better.

BHB

[Jelvis]

I thought of that too, but hey I leave it to the MOE they know best...
By the way all bucks don't breed dozens of does according to my readings.
Jel .. Know what I'm sayin .. Jayrock trailer park boyz

[6616]

A mule deer doe will have a single fawn the first gestation and if in healthy condition have two from then on .. so if you shoot the doe you kill three deer.
This is one older theory.
The mother has two fawns and then out of the fawns born there are more male fawns then females in the birthing time .. because natures way of evening out the pop because bucks live a more dangerous life.
This is what we were taught when younger ..
Now it's deer counts and winter range capabilities with biological study.. and many opinions on what the H is going on?
Jel .. One doe = three deer next year .. read em and weep

Well if you recommend we should never shoot does, what strategy would you recommend to control growth rates in over-populated herds,,,,, shoot more bucks...???

[Jelvis]

I'm not saying don't shoot females at all, I know a fair bit on the system I been hunting B.C. for decades and following moe stuff about conservation of animals in B.C. and have all the confidence in the MOE staff ... they have been superb since I can remember, this province has vast area and summer winter ranges that have been protected by diverse ways...
Jelvis .. the B.C. fish and wildlife management is something to take pride in .. Not to dis ..

[curt]

I would honestly be suprised to see them reduce the Muley buck to 1. Reason being MOE is trying to promote and encourage more and new hunters to get involved in our province, reducing the buck limit to 1 only makes things more difficult, less convenient and less attractive to the new and inexperienced hunter. The reality is somewhere in the high 80-90% of our provinces hunters reside in the lower mainland/ southern most portions of our province. Further restrictions and reducing opportunity will have a negative effect on the MOE'S plan to increase the numbers of hunters buying licenses and tags every year!?! There may be a plan in place to force people to shoot whiteys but I'm not convinced!! I have the number to the senior project officer in charge of Implementing the regs, I will call him monday and try and get some answers!?!? stay tuned:wink:

[Jelvis]

Let us not get hung up in one area about bag limit stuff for mule bucks we got a late season hunt for snow fall hunting in 3 last year til December 10th.
One buck, an antlerless LEH for mules and a GOS for great whites..lol..
C'mon man get real you can hunt your bunz off in B.C. when others can only wish ..
If money is needed for more revenue hey might as well sell tags and leh chances as well, instead of looking for donations form the public to help conservation and habitat sustainability on critical winter ranges.
We love hunting and we appreciate the wild life management as well so we can sustain a healthy herd with a maximum population for adequate winter range capabilities for all species of deer in B.C. to not only exist but to thrive and come alive roaming the ridges and valleys.
Jelly Valley Ridges .. Bo Knows Sustainability Management ... Keep your head up!suckerbamdonelikedinner