Reg. 4 elk changes update

[Rob]

Ive read through alot of the pages on the proposed changes, but am wondering if anyone has some updated info on what will be coming down the pipe? dates/MU's?? Or are we waiting for the regs to come out? Thanks Rob

[hunter1947]

I would think that we are all in the same boat as you Rob ,will have to wait and see if there is going to be a short GOS for bulls in regions 4..

[mark]

I would think that we are all in the same boat as you Rob ,will have to wait and see if there is going to be a short GOS for bulls in regions 4..

????? Isnt there already a long GOS for bulls in region 4 in the east, and I thought the west is already a done deal as theres no LEH for them??

[6616]

As far as information flowing back to the regional wildlife advisory committee (KWHAC) the only changes being contemplated for the East K will be in the x-zones and are supposed to include a short GOS on antlerless elk and a short GOS on spike bulls. Other then these possible x-zone changes all will remain the same in the EK for elk.

Since the LEH for the West K bulls is not in the LEH synopsis we have to assume that the proposed 6pt GOS is a go.

The last provincial hunting advisory committee (PHRAAC) meeting was held on Apr 15th and Victoria then makes final decisions and they likely won't inform us of the decisions so we'll have to wait for the regs to come out.

[Brambles]

Somone mentioned to me that the local biologist said that the 6 point WK elk season is still up in the air and that it can still change, regardless of how the LEH synopsis reads.

Obviously this is third hand information so its not worth much, but thats the buzz going around.

[hunter1947]

????? Isnt there already a long GOS for bulls in region 4 in the east, and I thought the west is already a done deal as theres no LEH for them??


I guess I did not explain myself clear enough Mark my mistake http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif,I was meaning to say 3 point or better short GOS in the EK http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif..

[6616]

Somone mentioned to me that the local biologist said that the 6 point WK elk season is still up in the air and that it can still change, regardless of how the LEH synopsis reads.

Obviously this is third hand information so its not worth much, but thats the buzz going around.

Considering the current controversy in the Trail/Castlegar area I think that's a pretty good take on the situation Brambles. MLA Conroy is still stirring up quite a fuss and anything could happen once the situation involves politicians.

I guess if they do decide not to go ahead with it the elk will get a rest this year since there's no LEH this year.

[Rob]

Thanks, like a lot of folks Im wondering what to put in for holidays. Maybe its a good year to head North for Moose as the the E&W Kootenays may see a couple hunters this year. Cheers, Rob

[Fisher-Dude]

Considering the current controversy in the Trail/Castlegar area I think that's a pretty good take on the situation Brambles. MLA Conroy is still stirring up quite a fuss and anything could happen once the situation involves politicians.

I guess if they do decide not to go ahead with it the elk will get a rest this year since there's no LEH this year.

She's an NDPer, so no doubt an anti-hunter and anti-gun idiot. She'll love this "cause" just to kick hunters in the nuts.

[huntingfamily]

She's an NDPer, so no doubt an anti-hunter and anti-gun idiot. She'll love this "cause" just to kick hunters in the nuts.

Ya, and MP Alex Atamanenko of the NDP party is trying to get his voice heard also:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/trailrosslandnews/opinion/letters/85130217.html

hf

[6616]

Ya, and MP Alex Atamanenko of the NDP party is trying to get his voice heard also:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/trailrosslandnews/opinion/letters/85130217.html

hf

This whole issue is completely out of control and Alex and Katarina are just using it to develop some left wing brownie points. The citizens and landowners in the WK may very well oppose the proposals by this time largely due to the huge fuss a small handful of hunters from Trail and Castlegar are making. If it were up to hunters I'm pretty sure the majority of hunters in the WK are in favour of all three of these proposals. Why would a hunter who's not really interested in trophy elk hunting support continuing the high odds LEH when the pro bios say a GOS is sustainable. It's really a no-brainer and the controversy and opposition really doesn't exist, it's only a perception sustained by a very small number of very vocal people. Without this small handful of people spouting off there wouldn't be any controversy at all. I hope the decision makers in Victoria see throught this farce.

[Fisher-Dude]

Ya, and MP Alex Atamanenko of the NDP party is trying to get his voice heard also:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/trailrosslandnews/opinion/letters/85130217.html

hf

What a fricken jackass Atamanenko is. He's well known for his pro-gun registry stance. Vote NDP, this is what you get. :mad:





Editor’s Note: The following letter was send to Barry Penner, minister of the environment, from MP Alex Atamanenko.

Dear Minister:
The vast majority of citizens in the West Kootenay area are opposed to the proposed hunting regulation changes in regard to bull elk from Limited Entry Draw to General Open Season and the harmonization of the whitetail and mule deer regulations. Both the Castlegar & District Wildlife Association and the West Kootenay Outdoorsmen Elk Committee also oppose any change in the regulation.
Safety is a major issue. Many of us have property where elk freely roam. To have a high influx of hunters here during 1 October - 21 October, in addition to an early archery season, makes absolutely no sense. Last year there were approximately 138 permits issued to hunt elk. An open season could see upward of 5,000 hunters flocking to this area. Should this happen there will be major conflicts with landowners, negative effects on the watershed and safety issues. Many who live in the area are of Russian Doukhobor descent with pacifist roots. Any major influx of hunters on their land would cause major concern.
On behalf of property owners in our area I strongly urge you to reject any proposed changes to the existing hunting regulations.
Alex Atamanenko, MP BC Southern Interior

[UncleJesse]

Don't think this is a hijack since it's pretty much the same subject.

I am wondering about antlerless elk - there's a draw for the trench 4-03* but is this in addition to the short GOS on antlerless?

[GoatGuy]

Ya, and MP Alex Atamanenko of the NDP party is trying to get his voice heard also:

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/trailrosslandnews/opinion/letters/85130217.html

hf


That's surprising as he generally doesn't listen to any of his constituents and usually just makes his own mind up on what he wants to do.

Some of his more famous work:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIloch5_bSA

[Brambles]

I know for me and a lot of other West kootenay guys the issue has moved past just the elk.

My biggest concern with the open WK elk is

1.) the massive influx of hunters that will arrive
2.) Whitetail population impact
3.) Mule Deer population impact
4.) Bear......Well you can shoot all them as far as Im concerned
5.) Possible negative impact on elk herd

Mule deer are JUST starting to come back after the dieoff in 1996, they can't handle a large increase in harvest numbers.

A lot of the drainages in the proposed area's have very little as far as spur roads, and doesnt' leave a lot of room to get away from others. Unlike the East kootenays where there are a maze of road systems in every drainage

With a large influx of hunters into these drainages it will be high congestion and any legal animal that steps foot outside the protection of the timber will be harvested. Its not just the elk.

Hell the CO's have trouble with out of region hunters when they come over for the cow elk season, mule deer are closed in the WK for a large portion of those hunts and they are still shooting them and trying to get away with it. Saying they shot them in the EK, or Region 3.

In conclusion I'm just saying its a more complex issue with the locals then just the elk populations.

[blackbart]

Goatguy. Great clip, reminds me of my children when they are hungry or tired minus the go to hell!

How about the local economic benefits of the rush of "non-locals"? Surely the business owners would appreciate this.

I have put in for the WK LEH for ten plus years, but probably won't join the mob for a GOS. At least not this year. Was hoping to hunt the rut, if and when a tag ever came my way. I guess that there will be limited rut action with an October GOS.

Can we expect dramatic spikes in the odds for other elk LEH, ie Roosies?

[Everett]

I know for me and a lot of other West kootenay guys the issue has moved past just the elk.

My biggest concern with the open WK elk is

1.) the massive influx of hunters that will arrive
2.) Whitetail population impact
3.) Mule Deer population impact
4.) Bear......Well you can shoot all them as far as Im concerned
5.) Possible negative impact on elk herd

Mule deer are JUST starting to come back after the dieoff in 1996, they can't handle a large increase in harvest numbers.

A lot of the drainages in the proposed area's have very little as far as spur roads, and doesnt' leave a lot of room to get away from others. Unlike the East kootenays where there are a maze of road systems in every drainage

With a large influx of hunters into these drainages it will be high congestion and any legal animal that steps foot outside the protection of the timber will be harvested. Its not just the elk.

Hell the CO's have trouble with out of region hunters when they come over for the cow elk season, mule deer are closed in the WK for a large portion of those hunts and they are still shooting them and trying to get away with it. Saying they shot them in the EK, or Region 3.

In conclusion I'm just saying its a more complex issue with the locals then just the elk populations.

Wow Brambles welcome to to the EK or any other region of BC.
So suck it up and enjoy all that money dumped into the local economy by LML and OK hunters.
Poachers are poachers it dosn't matter what region they are in.

[hunter1947]

All I have to say about more openings in the WK is that you better have a place where you can get away from the crowd http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[bridger]

the phraac meeting scheduled for the 15th was postponed until tomorrow. perhaps there will be an update then.

[Brambles]

Wow Brambles welcome to to the EK or any other region of BC.
So suck it up and enjoy all that money dumped into the local economy by LML and OK hunters.
Poachers are poachers it dosn't matter what region they are in.


Its not a matter of sucking up, and I"m not worried about the economy, its not a money thing with me its an animal thing. I don't want to see the Mule deer who are just on the verge of recovery from a large dieoff, whitetail, elk etc etc, overhunted because everyone feels the need to come to the WK to hunt the legendary bull elk

Comparing the WK to the rest of the province isn't fair
The WK road system isn't nearly as developed as OK or EK or Kamloops or Caribou. Lots of Drainages in the WK proposed for open GOS have very few roads. Its gonna be a cluster f&* K with a large increase in hunters.

And the animal populations are a lot leaner here too. Whitetails, Mulies, Elk Moose etc are all found in lower quantities then compared to the EK, We may be up on some of the more central BC MU's regarding elk but if you go out hunting and actually see a deer in a day you're not doing bad.

Sure us locals have been able to be somewhat sucessful but we kinda have to hunt what we have.

I was told today that the decision will be made soon about the changes regarding the ELK so it will be nice to finally put an end to this bickering and move on. Whatever the decision I hope the animals will be able to weather the storm.

[aggiehunter]

Brambles, You forgot one of the most important mistakes made in this change....a different opening date.....can opener please.

[Everett]

Comparing the WK to the rest of the province isn't fair
The WK road system isn't nearly as developed as OK or EK or Kamloops or Caribou. Lots of Drainages in the WK proposed for open GOS have very few roads. Its gonna be a cluster f&* K with a large increase in hunters.


Yes it is every area has its own peculiarites and that lack of roads means there is no chance of conservation issues with any ungulate in this area. Yes it will affect local hunters as LML ond OK hunters show up and shoot the easy access animals. But like I said same as any other area in BC.
It will be a cluster **** for two years than everyone will go back to wence they came. Personaly looking forward to it as all those WK hunters I run into while Elk hunting will hopefully stay home.:mrgreen:

[dana]

Brambles,
Your logic doesn't hold up. You are worried about a slaughter and yet you freely admit there are very few roads? If the later is indeed true, the animals should fair really well. A few dumb ones will be taken, but the rest will wise up and stay out of the 'Gong Show' areas. If not much access, then there ain't much of a concern now is there? You say you are worried about the whitetails and the muleys. That too doesn't hold water. If you were worried about the muleys, you'd be happy to see the added pressure on the whitetails with the GOS on does. That is indeed a great thing for the muleys. And that is a great thing for hunters too. They take home some meat in the form of a whitetail, they will be less trigger happy when it comes to average 6 point elk. Hunters will be more selective when it comes to trophy elk because the so-called World Record potential. Let them kill as many whiteys as they want. It'll be a win/win for the muleys and the elk. And it is proven that if you actually manage whitetails instead of letting them overpopulate and take over, you will indeed see bigger whitetail bucks. Imagine that. A win/win all around.

[Everett]

Brambles,
Your logic doesn't hold up. You are worried about a slaughter and yet you freely admit there are very few roads? If the later is indeed true, the animals should fair really well. A few dumb ones will be taken, but the rest will wise up and stay out of the 'Gong Show' areas. If not much access, then there ain't much of a concern now is there? You say you are worried about the whitetails and the muleys. That too doesn't hold water. If you were worried about the muleys, you'd be happy to see the added pressure on the whitetails with the GOS on does. That is indeed a great thing for the muleys. And that is a great thing for hunters too. They take home some meat in the form of a whitetail, they will be less trigger happy when it comes to average 6 point elk. Hunters will be more selective when it comes to trophy elk because the so-called World Record potential. Let them kill as many whiteys as they want. It'll be a win/win for the muleys and the elk. And it is proven that if you actually manage whitetails instead of letting them overpopulate and take over, you will indeed see bigger whitetail bucks. Imagine that. A win/win all around.

Very well said Dana.

[Gunner]

As far as I know the season opener for bulls in the WK is after most of the rut is done,they aren't going to be charging in on guys.And as Dana says a lot of the country the elk use is difficult to access and rough.There won't be any slaughter,the guys that take good bulls will work hard for them,same as always.As far as whitetails go,they could use some thinning.If the opening is late(after the rut),the only guys that will be bugling will be the G/Os! Gunner

[dana]

There is talk that with the Southern Interior Mule Deer Strategy we will see a 1 muley buck limit for the entire Southern Interior (Regions 3,4,5 & 8 ). I hope to see this happen. That will force hunters to hunt locally or be selective. No more bouncing from Region to Region filling their 3 deer allotement following the different closures. This will be a GOOD thing for mule deer and for hunters alike. Why? Hunters will have better hunting experiences without the GONG SHOW mentality and with the GOS on whitetail does, they can have the same amount of meat in the freezer. Again a win/win for the muleys. Less pressure from hunters and less pressure from whitetail encroachment.
Think about how this would help your concerns in the WK's. The hunters from the OK and everywhere else that decide to venture to your area in pursuit of the Next World Record Elk have a huge decision if they encounter a muley buck. Hmm, do I screw up my season in my own backyard by canceling my muley buck tag on an WK buck? Again this should cause numerous hunters to show restraint on pulling that trigger on those small to average muleys. The more bucks passed on, means more big bucks for the future as they are allowed to grow up right? What does that mean, the resident that lives in the WK gets a major win too.
I've heard mixed reports on whether the 1 mule deer buck limit for the Southern Interior will happen this year. I hope it does, but if it doesn't you can bet there is a good chance we will see it in the near future.

[358mag]

Its not a matter of sucking up, and I"m not worried about the economy, its not a money thing with me its an animal thing. I don't want to see the Mule deer who are just on the verge of recovery from a large dieoff, whitetail, elk etc etc, overhunted because everyone feels the need to come to the WK to hunt the legendary bull elk

Comparing the WK to the rest of the province isn't fair
The WK road system isn't nearly as developed as OK or EK or Kamloops or Caribou. Lots of Drainages in the WK proposed for open GOS have very few roads. Its gonna be a cluster f&* K with a large increase in hunters.

And the animal populations are a lot leaner here too. Whitetails, Mulies, Elk Moose etc are all found in lower quantities then compared to the EK, We may be up on some of the more central BC MU's regarding elk but if you go out hunting and actually see a deer in a day you're not doing bad.

Sure us locals have been able to be somewhat sucessful but we kinda have to hunt what we have.

I was told today that the decision will be made soon about the changes regarding the ELK so it will be nice to finally put an end to this bickering and move on. Whatever the decision I hope the animals will be able to weather the storm.
As you can see Brambles you not going to win any brownie points on this form, its not about the hunt its all about the "kill" !!!!!Love to put a trail camera on Goose Creek Rd or on Mt Sentinal not to mention a few other roads and see the gong show of Gut pile hunters looking for that WK record book Elk .

[GoatGuy]

I know for me and a lot of other West kootenay guys the issue has moved past just the elk.

My biggest concern with the open WK elk is

1.) the massive influx of hunters that will arrive
2.) Whitetail population impact
3.) Mule Deer population impact
4.) Bear......Well you can shoot all them as far as Im concerned
5.) Possible negative impact on elk herd

Mule deer are JUST starting to come back after the dieoff in 1996, they can't handle a large increase in harvest numbers.

A lot of the drainages in the proposed area's have very little as far as spur roads, and doesnt' leave a lot of room to get away from others. Unlike the East kootenays where there are a maze of road systems in every drainage

With a large influx of hunters into these drainages it will be high congestion and any legal animal that steps foot outside the protection of the timber will be harvested. Its not just the elk.

Hell the CO's have trouble with out of region hunters when they come over for the cow elk season, mule deer are closed in the WK for a large portion of those hunts and they are still shooting them and trying to get away with it. Saying they shot them in the EK, or Region 3.

In conclusion I'm just saying its a more complex issue with the locals then just the elk populations.

If we were shooting MD does you would have a problem - we aren't. With the access and terrain in the WK you will not negatively affect the mule deer population with the proposed buck season. Perhaps in the ag area of 7B you could reduce the buck:doe ratio to the point where you could create a conservation concern in terms of sperm, not in 4W. If we're dealing with science and the 'animals only' this isn't a big concern.

While we're on the topic of the mule deer and white-tailed deer thing.

What the science shows is the reason why the mule deer have taken so long to rebound is because of white-tailed deer productivity and resulting high predator populations and increased predation on mule deer. Long story short is if we managed white-tailed deer instead of just harvesting bucks it would help mule deer recover particularly after severe winter die-off. Part of that includes harvesting more cougars, particularly more females. Managing white-tailed deer means shooting does. That research is out of the Pend D'Oreille - very germaine to the WK.

It is statistically impossible to negatively impact the elk population on a 6 pt GOS. If we can't do it around Cranbrook where we harvest every single 6 pt GOS or in the Okanagan where there are few elk and lots of access we won't do it in the WK.

Black bear harvest is simply rediculous and I'm sure you agree on that.

In terms of worrying about wildlife, it's not a huge deal. The only populations you might see decline or stabilize is white-tailed, although after the last winter I doubt it. On the flip side the research says if you want mule deer you need to get a handle on the WT. With the predator issues we have that's the only way to do it right now.

If we're worried about the social factors it will be an issue depending on where people hunt and who they are just like every other corner of the province.

[GoatGuy]

As you can see Brambles you not going to win any brownie points on this form, its not about the hunt its all about the "kill" !!!!!Love to put a trail camera on Goose Creek Rd or on Mt Sentinal not to mention a few other roads and see the gong show of Gut pile hunters looking for that WK record book Elk .

Along with a long list in Regions 3,4,7b and 8 definitely a couple places I wouldn't be.

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy. Great clip, reminds me of my children when they are hungry or tired minus the go to hell!

How about the local economic benefits of the rush of "non-locals"? Surely the business owners would appreciate this.

I have put in for the WK LEH for ten plus years, but probably won't join the mob for a GOS. At least not this year. Was hoping to hunt the rut, if and when a tag ever came my way. I guess that there will be limited rut action with an October GOS.

Can we expect dramatic spikes in the odds for other elk LEH, ie Roosies?

The issue is entirely 'social'. Lots of fear mongering, very little fact. Watched this evolve over the last couple of years and as the 'reasons' are defeated they change.

More hunters will probably apply for rosies.

They bulls should still be singing in October. There are plenty of spots with very little access. It's funny that a lot of guys will be going over there for this. The areas producing the biggest bulls in the province have been GOS for years.

[Kody94]

Brambles,
Your logic doesn't hold up. You are worried about a slaughter and yet you freely admit there are very few roads? If the later is indeed true, the animals should fair really well. A few dumb ones will be taken, but the rest will wise up and stay out of the 'Gong Show' areas. If not much access, then there ain't much of a concern now is there? You say you are worried about the whitetails and the muleys. That too doesn't hold water. If you were worried about the muleys, you'd be happy to see the added pressure on the whitetails with the GOS on does. That is indeed a great thing for the muleys. And that is a great thing for hunters too. They take home some meat in the form of a whitetail, they will be less trigger happy when it comes to average 6 point elk. Hunters will be more selective when it comes to trophy elk because the so-called World Record potential. Let them kill as many whiteys as they want. It'll be a win/win for the muleys and the elk. And it is proven that if you actually manage whitetails instead of letting them overpopulate and take over, you will indeed see bigger whitetail bucks. Imagine that. A win/win all around.


If we were shooting MD does you would have a problem - we aren't. With the access and terrain in the WK you will not negatively affect the mule deer population with the proposed buck season. Perhaps in the ag area of 7B you could reduce the buck:doe ratio to the point where you could create a conservation concern in terms of sperm, not in 4W. If we're dealing with science and the 'animals only' this isn't a big concern.

While we're on the topic of the mule deer and white-tailed deer thing.

What the science shows is the reason why the mule deer have taken so long to rebound is because of white-tailed deer productivity and resulting high predator populations and increased predation on mule deer. Long story short is if we managed white-tailed deer instead of just harvesting bucks it would help mule deer recover particularly after severe winter die-off. Part of that includes harvesting more cougars, particularly more females. Managing white-tailed deer means shooting does. That research is out of the Pend D'Oreille - very germaine to the WK.

It is statistically impossible to negatively impact the elk population on a 6 pt GOS. If we can't do it around Cranbrook where we harvest every single 6 pt GOS or in the Okanagan where there are few elk and lots of access we won't do it in the WK.

Black bear harvest is simply rediculous and I'm sure you agree on that.

In terms of worrying about wildlife, it's not a huge deal. The only populations you might see decline or stabilize is white-tailed, although after the last winter I doubt it. On the flip side the research says if you want mule deer you need to get a handle on the WT. With the predator issues we have that's the only way to do it right now.

If we're worried about the social factors it will be an issue depending on where people hunt and who they are just like every other corner of the province.

Amen, brothers. Good posts. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[dana]

The fact is you can't kill a World Record if you shoot the first rat 6 point you see. Those that wanna kill rat 6 points can do it on a regular basis in the EK. If you think you are going to see a 'kill' only mentality in the WK you are sadly mistake. I'm taken aback by the fact that some so-called hard core hunters are creating such a mountian out of a mole-hill on the whole WK elk issue. Geeze, if I lived there, I'd be stoked I could finally hunt elk in my own backyard. Who's going to be shooting the monsters this year? You can bet it'll be the locals with all the local knowledge. The out of towner crowd will be no different than any out of towner crowd in any corner of this province, disadvantaged. Tell me, why does dana's crew hammer monster muleys yearly meanwhile the place is polluted with out of towners who can't even find a legal 4 point? The answer is because we live here and have done our homework. The same thing will take place in the WK with elk. The locals with the desire and the fortitude will be the ones that find and harvest the biggest bulls.

[Brambles]

Brambles,
Your logic doesn't hold up. You are worried about a slaughter and yet you freely admit there are very few roads? If the later is indeed true, the animals should fair really well. A few dumb ones will be taken, but the rest will wise up and stay out of the 'Gong Show' areas. If not much access, then there ain't much of a concern now is there? You say you are worried about the whitetails and the muleys. That too doesn't hold water. If you were worried about the muleys, you'd be happy to see the added pressure on the whitetails with the GOS on does. That is indeed a great thing for the muleys. And that is a great thing for hunters too. They take home some meat in the form of a whitetail, they will be less trigger happy when it comes to average 6 point elk. Hunters will be more selective when it comes to trophy elk because the so-called World Record potential. Let them kill as many whiteys as they want. It'll be a win/win for the muleys and the elk. And it is proven that if you actually manage whitetails instead of letting them overpopulate and take over, you will indeed see bigger whitetail bucks. Imagine that. A win/win all around.

I hope your right, I really do.


The fact is you can't kill a World Record if you shoot the first rat 6 point you see. Those that wanna kill rat 6 points can do it on a regular basis in the EK. If you think you are going to see a 'kill' only mentality in the WK you are sadly mistake. I'm taken aback by the fact that some so-called hard core hunters are creating such a mountian out of a mole-hill on the whole WK elk issue. Geeze, if I lived there, I'd be stoked I could finally hunt elk in my own backyard. Who's going to be shooting the monsters this year? You can bet it'll be the locals with all the local knowledge. The out of towner crowd will be no different than any out of towner crowd in any corner of this province, disadvantaged. Tell me, why does dana's crew hammer monster muleys yearly meanwhile the place is polluted with out of towners who can't even find a legal 4 point? The answer is because we live here and have done our homework. The same thing will take place in the WK with elk. The locals with the desire and the fortitude will be the ones that find and harvest the biggest bulls.

99% of the guys that draw LEH's in these areas in the past have the "kill" mentality. You should see some of the bulls taken out of these prime units, it would make you sick to see how guys are wasting these rare tags.
These guys have waited their entire lives to get this draw and shoot a 250" bull or some raghorned 5x6. There has only been a small number of respectable bulls taken out of these LEH MU's in the last decade. So yeah, I think there will definitly be a kill attitude when they get a hot 6x6 bugling in their face.

You think having a once in a lifetime tag would make a guy more selective but that hasn't been the case here.

Sure some the better bulls are usually taken by locals, but there are gonna be a lot of NON locals running around, and IMO that spells dead elk regardless if they are worldclass or barely legal.

Don't think its just the trophy hunters lurking in the bush

[Fisher-Dude]

99% of the guys that draw LEH's in these areas in the past have the "kill" mentality. You should see some of the bulls taken out of these prime units, it would make you sick to see how guys are wasting these rare tags.
These guys have waited their entire lives to get this draw and shoot a 250" bull or some raghorned 5x6. There has only been a small number of respectable bulls taken out of these LEH MU's in the last decade. So yeah, I think there will definitly be a kill attitude when they get a hot 6x6 bugling in their face.

You think having a once in a lifetime tag would make a guy more selective but that hasn't been the case here.

Sure some the better bulls are usually taken by locals, but there are gonna be a lot of NON locals running around, and IMO that spells dead elk regardless if they are worldclass or barely legal.

Don't think its just the trophy hunters lurking in the bush

"Waste" of a tag? Who cares what legal animal they shoot? It might not meet YOUR standards, but for many guys being drawn gives them a chance to harvest an elk, maybe their first. I say good for them, and don't try to impose YOUR standards on someone else.

You're just sour that they get to hunt and you don't - but, now you can hunt too! :wink:

[Brambles]

"Waste" of a tag? Who cares what legal animal they shoot? It might not meet YOUR standards, but for many guys being drawn gives them a chance to harvest an elk, maybe their first. I say good for them, and don't try to impose YOUR standards on someone else.

You're just sour that they get to hunt and you don't - but, now you can hunt too! :wink:

I don't care what they shoot, I'm just pointing out that if Dana thinks that everyone that comes to the WK for elk are gonna be selective and let 6 pointers walk, then he's sadely mistaken. History has shown that people will shoot anything even after waiting a lifetime for a tag.

[Fisher-Dude]

I don't care what they shoot, I'm just pointing out that if Dana thinks that everyone that comes to the WK for elk are gonna be selective and let 6 pointers walk, then he's sadely mistaken. History has shown that people will shoot anything even after waiting a lifetime for a tag.

Good. If it's a barely legal 6 point and someone wants to shoot it, they bloody well should. That's what the season is for, to shoot 6 point elk for the freezer. It's not for all guys to hold out for some magical 320 or 340 standard. If someone wants to hold out for a 340, give 'er. Just don't rip a new arsehole in a guy that shoots a 240 6x5.

Doesn't matter how many 6 points get shot - it won't cause a conservation concern.

[Brambles]

Good. If it's a barely legal 6 point and someone wants to shoot it, they bloody well should. That's what the season is for, to shoot 6 point elk for the freezer. It's not for all guys to hold out for some magical 320 or 340 standard. If someone wants to hold out for a 340, give 'er. Just don't rip a new arsehole in a guy that shoots a 240 6x5.

Doesn't matter how many 6 points get shot - it won't cause a conservation concern.


So how many days do you have booked off to come the the WK....come on, honestly...you coming over for the gong show?

[Fisher-Dude]

So how many days do you have booked off to come the the WK....come on, honestly...you coming over for the gong show?

I might help my buddy in Castlegar. He helped me when I had my draw there. Now, he has asthma but has waited all his life to hunt the elk in his back yard. I'll do a 4 or 5 day weekend. Holidays will likely be spent in the EK again.

[wetcoasthunter]

99% of the guys that draw LEH's in these areas in the past have the "kill" mentality. You should see some of the bulls taken out of these prime units, it would make you sick to see how guys are wasting these rare tags.
These guys have waited their entire lives to get this draw and shoot a 250" bull or some raghorned 5x6. There has only been a small number of respectable bulls taken out of these LEH MU's in the last decade. So yeah, I think there will definitly be a kill attitude when they get a hot 6x6 bugling in their face.

You think having a once in a lifetime tag would make a guy more selective but that hasn't been the case here.

Sure some the better bulls are usually taken by locals, but there are gonna be a lot of NON locals running around, and IMO that spells dead elk regardless if they are worldclass or barely legal.

Don't think its just the trophy hunters lurking in the bush

Do you have some sort of roadblock set up asking guys with LEH's what their mentality is? Or do you just follow them around......all of them? Time to break out the hip waders to get through all the BS.

[todbartell]

Id like to come down, if I can :smile:

[Brambles]

Do you have some sort of roadblock set up asking guys with LEH's what their mentality is? Or do you just follow them around......all of them? Time to break out the hip waders to get through all the BS.


Why do you assume what I"m saying is BS:?: Do you think there are more Trophy Elk hunters out there than I do?

[GoatGuy]

I hope your right, I really do.



99% of the guys that draw LEH's in these areas in the past have the "kill" mentality. You should see some of the bulls taken out of these prime units, it would make you sick to see how guys are wasting these rare tags.
These guys have waited their entire lives to get this draw and shoot a 250" bull or some raghorned 5x6. There has only been a small number of respectable bulls taken out of these LEH MU's in the last decade. So yeah, I think there will definitly be a kill attitude when they get a hot 6x6 bugling in their face.

You think having a once in a lifetime tag would make a guy more selective but that hasn't been the case here.

Sure some the better bulls are usually taken by locals, but there are gonna be a lot of NON locals running around, and IMO that spells dead elk regardless if they are worldclass or barely legal.

Don't think its just the trophy hunters lurking in the bush

There have been more than a couple 3 pts come out of there as well. Think some people put in there just to get a bull draw. Not all hunters will put in for an antlerless draw even though they're look for the first legal buck/bull.

[hopsing]

I know for me and a lot of other West kootenay guys the issue has moved past just the elk.

My biggest concern with the open WK elk is

1.) the massive influx of hunters that will arrive
2.) Whitetail population impact
3.) Mule Deer population impact
4.) Bear......Well you can shoot all them as far as Im concerned
5.) Possible negative impact on elk herd

Mule deer are JUST starting to come back after the dieoff in 1996, they can't handle a large increase in harvest numbers.

A lot of the drainages in the proposed area's have very little as far as spur roads, and doesnt' leave a lot of room to get away from others. Unlike the East kootenays where there are a maze of road systems in every drainage

With a large influx of hunters into these drainages it will be high congestion and any legal animal that steps foot outside the protection of the timber will be harvested. Its not just the elk.

Hell the CO's have trouble with out of region hunters when they come over for the cow elk season, mule deer are closed in the WK for a large portion of those hunts and they are still shooting them and trying to get away with it. Saying they shot them in the EK, or Region 3.

In conclusion I'm just saying its a more complex issue with the locals then just the elk populations.

1) I wanna come. Don't have quad, so you don't have to worry about your road.

2) WT & Elk adapt really fast. Will promote bigger WT bucks & tons of fun during the rut. Look at EK crying there is no 6 points and science 5 points genetics..blah...blah. Yet the monsters survives every year. Tons of antler less are handed out and they also disappear.

3)Mule will definitely benefit. You will even appreciate your honey hole even more cuz they'll hang where it is safe with all the extra pressure.

Man...you are soooo lucky. Oh yeah, you can have the bear.

[bighornbob]

I hope your right, I really do.



99% of the guys that draw LEH's in these areas in the past have the "kill" mentality. You should see some of the bulls taken out of these prime units, it would make you sick to see how guys are wasting these rare tags.
These guys have waited their entire lives to get this draw and shoot a 250" bull or some raghorned 5x6. There has only been a small number of respectable bulls taken out of these LEH MU's in the last decade. So yeah, I think there will definitly be a kill attitude when they get a hot 6x6 bugling in their face.

You think having a once in a lifetime tag would make a guy more selective but that hasn't been the case here.

Sure some the better bulls are usually taken by locals, but there are gonna be a lot of NON locals running around, and IMO that spells dead elk regardless if they are worldclass or barely legal.

Don't think its just the trophy hunters lurking in the bush

Thats not just that LEH but most Leh's that have high odds.

Look at most of the LEH sheep tags, especially Kamloops Lake. High odds and few monsters but the majority that get drawn are first timers that usually shoot the first decent animal.

Thats what a lot of the LEH's do. If you know what you are doing your are going to get a monster, if you are new to hunting sheep of elk you will get a respectable animal.

BHB

[dana]

Brambles,
How long ago was it that I was riding you for shooting dinks in your own backyard and then jumping on the latest hotspot in other regions bandwagon when it came to muleys? Not that long dude. Am I seeing some hyprocrisy in your posts? Damn rights I am and you know I am the type to call ya on it. It is only recently that you took up the "trophy" bug and yet now when the out-of-towners (which you yourself have been) come to your area, you have a NIMBY attitude? I feel I have taught you better than that. Someone who knows animals and knows hunting can read through the crap in your latest posts pretty damn easy. Don't tell me you are one of those jack-ass idiots I heard on CBC radio complaining about the Slaughter in the WK. You are way better than that. You are developing well into a good hunter and your recent success' have shown that. You are no longer a wannabe. Stop acting like one.

[Brambles]

POST Deleted so I don't bring myself to Dana's level

[BCBear]

I think what has been absent here is the fact that not all of us live in the middle of trophyland. When the cost of getting from here to there is amplified by living near Vancouver and it's madness, can you fault some guy for takin the first legal bull he sees on an LEH? I think not. coming home with nothing sux plain and simple especially if you passed and walked away only to come home with zip. Some of you guys who can spit into your hunting grounds from your front door need to remember this stuff....yeah yeah I know it takes about 10,000 hours of practise and work busting your hump to become elite in any field, but why put the other guy down who just wants to go hunting?

[smoothbor]

i live and hunt here smack in the middle of the west koots, the new proposed season for 6pt elk here has got the whole valley just shakin, the thought of having lets just say maybe 1500 people coming to the wk to hunt elk is terrifying, as was said earlier our road systems are not that of the east koots, our mule deer are just coming back and the 6pt season MAY be right in the middle of the any buck season, to find a campsite to hunt out of you will have to show up a week in advance to find one and then will also have to fight for spots with locals, I will be getting out of here and going back to the ek for the GOS, but then again I already had a draw for the west kooets 2 years ago and it was the best elk hunt i ever had, and I did shoot a 340 bull, this is what makes this area special, a person with the draw has the opportunity of a life time to harvest a great bull. and its my opinion that the class of bulls will decline in a few years....but this is just one wk hunters opinion. good luck this year, shoot straight

[kebes]

i live and hunt here smack in the middle of the west koots, the thought of having lets just say maybe 1500 people coming to the wk to hunt elk is terrifying, I will be getting out of here and going back to the ek for the GOS,

Maybe they're terrified of you coming to their backyards.

[Fisher-Dude]

Maybe they're terrified of you coming to their backyards.

Great minds think alike. :wink:

Ya know what? The WK elk season will open, some folks will go hunting, and a few will get some elk meat for the freezer. After the season, the sun will come up and the elk will eat some sunflower plants in Krestova. Life really won't change for anyone.

8-15 went from the same high-odds LEH to GOS 2 years ago. Harvest on LEH was 15 bulls, harvest on GOS 6 point was 17 bulls. There is no fighting for campsites and no slaughter. Go figure.

[BCrams]

i live and hunt here smack in the middle of the west koots, the new proposed season for 6pt elk here has got the whole valley just shakin, the thought of having lets just say maybe 1500 people coming to the wk to hunt elk is terrifying, as was said earlier our road systems are not that of the east koots, our mule deer are just coming back and the 6pt season MAY be right in the middle of the any buck season, to find a campsite to hunt out of you will have to show up a week in advance to find one and then will also have to fight for spots with locals, I will be getting out of here and going back to the ek for the GOS, but then again I already had a draw for the west kooets 2 years ago and it was the best elk hunt i ever had, and I did shoot a 340 bull, this is what makes this area special, a person with the draw has the opportunity of a life time to harvest a great bull. and its my opinion that the class of bulls will decline in a few years....but this is just one wk hunters opinion. good luck this year, shoot straight

Limited Roads = a hell of alot of country that will harbour elk and mule deer with no hunters around other than the odd hardcore guys ........ no concerns.

There are areas in BC under GOS that continually produce bigger bulls on average than the hunters taking the LEH bulls in the WK.

I wouldn't worry about it. As previously mentioned by some folks on here, the popular areas known to harbour elk and are virtually in peoples backyards will be hunted hard. I am sure there are places a person could go and have excellent hunting with no pressure....but it might take a little work on your behalf.

[dana]

i live and hunt here smack in the middle of the west koots, the new proposed season for 6pt elk here has got the whole valley just shakin, the thought of having lets just say maybe 1500 people coming to the wk to hunt elk is terrifying, as was said earlier our road systems are not that of the east koots, our mule deer are just coming back and the 6pt season MAY be right in the middle of the any buck season, to find a campsite to hunt out of you will have to show up a week in advance to find one and then will also have to fight for spots with locals, I will be getting out of here and going back to the ek for the GOS, but then again I already had a draw for the west kooets 2 years ago and it was the best elk hunt i ever had, and I did shoot a 340 bull, this is what makes this area special, a person with the draw has the opportunity of a life time to harvest a great bull. and its my opinion that the class of bulls will decline in a few years....but this is just one wk hunters opinion. good luck this year, shoot straight

You shot a 340 bull and you think that is the opportunity of a lifetime? Geeze, we are producing bulls that big even here in Region 3. While that is a big bull for most, it ain't even close to what the WK can produce. What was the score on the Arrowhead bull again? 465 2/8! It is all a matter of perspective ain't it? I have friends in UT and AZ that pass on 375-380 bulls because they are holding out for a 400 incher. What you consider Big someone else considers a Rat Raghorn.

[smoothbor]

DANa, never claimed it to be the largest bull but is my best to date, and what I said was, it was the best elk hunt I have ever been on, lots of elk calling most of the day lots of great opportunity and no one else around, it dosent come any easier for an elk hunt, although there is defiinitly much larger bulls taken here each year and i did see one larger than the one I shot sorry didnt mean to offend you, plus how many 340 raghorns do you have?.......lol

[GoatGuy]

DANa, never claimed it to be the largest bull but is my best to date, and what I said was, it was the best elk hunt I have ever been on, lots of elk calling most of the day lots of great opportunity and no one else around, it dosent come any easier for an elk hunt, although there is defiinitly much larger bulls taken here each year and i did see one larger than the one I shot sorry didnt mean to offend you, plus how many 340 raghorns do you have?.......lol

There are plenty of spots you can shoot 340 bulls in BC, also plenty of spots where you can have lots of calling and no one else around. There are even spots like that in the EK.

[Jelvis]

Hey smoothbor a 340 is a great bull for anyone to get, so congratulations anyways not too many hunters with a beauty like that ...

[dana]

DANa, never claimed it to be the largest bull but is my best to date, and what I said was, it was the best elk hunt I have ever been on, lots of elk calling most of the day lots of great opportunity and no one else around, it dosent come any easier for an elk hunt, although there is defiinitly much larger bulls taken here each year and i did see one larger than the one I shot sorry didnt mean to offend you, plus how many 340 raghorns do you have?.......lol

What were the odds on that draw? If the hunt was sooo good, why don't you care to do it again? If the WK were to stay LEH, chances are you'll never get that draw ever again.

As for the comment about the 340 raghorn, I wasn't saying that was a small bull. Just saying they ain't a once in a lifetime bull either. If I can photograph and find 340-350 class sheds in my backyard where we only have a small herd of 30-40 animals, I wouldn't say they are a big deal when it comes to real elk areas of this province. Heck, Mark just found a 340 class bull shed in the OK. I know that PG, Mcbride, the Peace, and the EK are also producing bulls that big and guess what, they are all GOS. I do know that if I drew out a once in a lifetime tag like the WK, I certainly would have a higher goal than 340. I've been known to pass on some very exceptional animals in my life while I hold out for "THE" one. If I don't find the animal I'm looking for, I don't mind eating tag soup either.

The point I'm trying to make is, trophy hunting is a personal choice. What you find as big, I may not. So what if another hunter doesn't hunt the way I do? So what if a 280 raghorn is what some hunters might want to pull the trigger on? Too many so-called trophy hunters are too damn worried about what everyone else is doing and bitching about how bad things are that they miss the opportunities right in front of them. The real trophy hunters don't fret and worry and fear monger, they just go out and hunt. Like I said before, the locals in the WK should be excited for this new opportunity to actually hunt their backyard. But, nope, they would rather call the Liberal media of the CBC and say that there is going to be a Slaughter in the WK this year. Which any real trophy hunter knows is complete and utter Bull$hit. Are you a wannabe or are you going to go out and top that 340 bull this year?

[Vader]

What does 6 pages of opinions have to do with WK elk changes update?
Other than a gang of vocals taking on a few people with enough backbone to speak out with honest, hearfelt opinions. Respect each others opinions as hunters and move the f@@k on. This has dick all to do with wildlife mangement and has all to do with money. Lieberal government has just figured out that this is big business and there is much tax dollars available. Move the hunters around and we'll pay for the olympics in half the projected timeframe.

Back to the updates part of this forum which has been severly hijacked...
Heard a rumor from the EK boys that they heard that there will be a GOS for rifle only in the WK. No bow season. Anyone verify or dispute this?

[Bugle M In]

Firstly, most bulls which are taken each year generally score in the 270 - 290 range.
So a bull that scores in the 340 - 350 range is certainly a nice bull.
Having said that, I have aslo seen a bull that scores 400+ (non-typical)
8x7 taken in Princeton...and NO, you won't find it any scorebook.
Yes, 400+ bulls are a real trophy, but we, lucky for us BC'ers, have the privilage to hunt in BC on mostly crown land.
Can't say that holds true for most parts of the U.S of A.
So, the opportunity, or lack of, for most hunters in the States to hunt prime habitat, does tend to lead to a few priviliged folks there, to hunt monsters.
As for the WK.
If a population supports a GOS, then there is no reason not to have it!
Trophy hunting is a personal choice.
For me, I like elk meat, and am not fussy on its size as long as I can have one in the freezer.
I know if I am shooting a raghorn or a trophy, doesn't matter to me, except my heart rate when I know it's a giant.
Having said that, I don't care if I end up eating deer tag soup.
I want a trophy buck, so I pass up on just about every legal buck I see.
What I am saying here is, that I choose to make a personal choice.
If I want to hunt a trophy, "I" have to pass up on a buck in hopes that no
hunter may ever stumble upon him again, in hopes that I may see him
again, years later.
If you want trophy hunting...practice it!
If you want something you can bake on the Bar B...shoot straight!
All agree its in the gene pool, so it is never lost, but age allows it to come to fruition if it exists in that animal.
We are all lucky to hunt in BC, but because we are able to, it means large trophies are harder to find.
As for 1500+ hunters in WK, thats sound like good economic benefits to me.
As harvesters, I thought we were trying to manage wildlife, to make sure there #'s are healthy, that the land base in each region can sustain them
effectively, and that as many of us can enjoy hunting and exploring new territories all over.
Trophy hunting is what one practices, not what we should be managing by shutting people out.
Maybe if we spread it all out with GOS, maybe we can hunt some Hogs up by Lyton once again, "some day".
And then maybe up the Pitt Lake one day, or should we shut out WK hunters from hunting down here?
If #'s are there, open it up.
Look at the gong show in Region 3 by shutting down Region 5 for a time.
Hunting should never be managed for quality of trophy, most of us here jump all over G/O's for that reason when they try to have us shut out of their areas etc.
I believe spreading hunters out around the same time of year, will help
reduce over crowding in some areas.
Honestly, most LM's don't have the time to run up to the WK and especially the EK, every weekend!
For the most part, it would be Locals that benefit the most.
Just my thoughts.

[dana]

Vader.
So you are the only one that can share your opinion? Awesome. Can you walk on water too? ;)

If you think hunters hunting their own backyard is about money to pay for the Olympics, you definately are on another planet ain't ya. By opening up numerous areas in the province for numerous critters, it'll actually mean less money in the government coffers as a lot of hunters will just stay home to hunt their own backyards. But, nope, you are right, there will be a slaughter in the WK this year and the government will make a Shitload of money selling elk tags. ;)

BugleMIn,
Well said!

[kootenayelkslayer]

Back to the updates part of this forum which has been severly hijacked...
Heard a rumor from the EK boys that they heard that there will be a GOS for rifle only in the WK. No bow season. Anyone verify or dispute this?

I hadn't heard this, but I've been worried that this might be the case. That would put a major kibosh on my plans for the fall :evil:

[mark]

I hadn't heard this, but I've been worried that this might be the case. That would put a major kibosh on my plans for the fall :evil:

X2..... We already got plans to bow hunt that area :evil:, but I wont be surprised if we dont see that bow season!
Looking forward to hunting elk locally anyways!

[dana]

Mark,
You better have plans to hunt locally given that shed you just found. :)

[Rob]

Dana, you seem to speak more of waiting for the "big one" I appreciate the fact that you have dropped some big bucks, but not all of us care about the size of the animal, some of us still enjoy hunting in the way we define it.

[blackbart]

Good on you for the 340" bull. Some others seem to spread about 340 pounds of Bull Sh$t daily. Pretty funny considering that your 340" elk is statistically the same or better than the chief manure spreaders best muley deer from BC.

[Vader]

For two months all I have read is your opinions.. which you try to cram down peoples throats. We get it. You are pro GOS and don't have the same concerns as a few that have voiced them here. I respect the fact that you are for a GOS.. Some don't agree with a GOS. Leave it at that.
By the way, I certainly don't consider your opinions god like either and the last guy that was considered perfect was stuck with a sword and hung on a post.
Just proof of another condescending remark in your posts.. So here's one for ya..
C'mon Bambi.. if you can't say something nice.. don't say nothing at all...



Vader.
So you are the only one that can share your opinion? Awesome. Can you walk on water too? ;)

If you think hunters hunting their own backyard is about money to pay for the Olympics, you definately are on another planet ain't ya. By opening up numerous areas in the province for numerous critters, it'll actually mean less money in the government coffers as a lot of hunters will just stay home to hunt their own backyards. But, nope, you are right, there will be a slaughter in the WK this year and the government will make a Shitload of money selling elk tags. ;)

BugleMIn,
Well said!

[hunter1947]

My thoughts on the WK elk GOS is that the elk management better monitor the 2010 season and see what damage is done at the years end..

[ford1]

You shot a 340 bull and you think that is the opportunity of a lifetime? Geeze, we are producing bulls that big even here in Region 3. While that is a big bull for most, it ain't even close to what the WK can produce. What was the score on the Arrowhead bull again? 465 2/8! It is all a matter of perspective ain't it? I have friends in UT and AZ that pass on 375-380 bulls because they are holding out for a 400 incher. What you consider Big someone else considers a Rat Raghorn.
You are a tad cocky for anyones good and being a trophy hunter isn't all that.
Perhaps your a Guide which would clear alot of things up.
To tell anyone that their 340 bull isn't great is nothing but being a smart ass and perhaps you would be better off not responding to the the WK thread on elk ;)

[6616]

Heard a rumor from the EK boys that they heard that there will be a GOS for rifle only in the WK. No bow season. Anyone verify or dispute this?

I believe the plan is for a region wide bow-only season from Sept 1st to 9th for any bull elk, see bottom line below.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/R4elkproposals.jpg (http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=18872)

[hunter1947]

I will be exspecting some monster bulls to come out of some areas in the WK this year ,I am guessing we might see a few in the 350+ area..

[steepNdeep]

Not everyone is a whitey bush monkey with no other life... :wink:

[aggiehunter]

Bow only is in Black because it ain't gonna happen! All those trophy hunters wouldn't want the bow hunters to have an early crack at it would they!

[Gateholio]

Bow only is in Black because it ain't gonna happen! All those trophy hunters wouldn't want the bow hunters to have an early crack at it would they!

Ern-

How do you know for sure it won't happen?

[ram29]

Re: Reg. 4 elk changes update

[6616]

Ern-

How do you know for sure it won't happen?

He doesn't, he's just...................

http://s3.amazonaws.com/preview.canstockphoto.com/canstock0302572.png

[dana]

For two months all I have read is your opinions.. which you try to cram down peoples throats. We get it. You are pro GOS and don't have the same concerns as a few that have voiced them here. I respect the fact that you are for a GOS.. Some don't agree with a GOS. Leave it at that.
By the way, I certainly don't consider your opinions god like either and the last guy that was considered perfect was stuck with a sword and hung on a post.
Just proof of another condescending remark in your posts.. So here's one for ya..
C'mon Bambi.. if you can't say something nice.. don't say nothing at all...

For two months? Really? I've barely even posted on this site this winter.

I'm pro-GOS for a reason. Why? Because I actually know a ton of Yanks and I'd hate to see us go the same way as it has down south. Utah and AZ have some of the best trophy elk in the world. But who's hunting them? The RICH! Why? Cause the Average Joe has to wait a lifetime to get a tag, meanwhile the rich can buy them every year. It seems pretty lame to be a Utard braggin about how many 400 inchers are killed there every year when they will never get a chance to hunt their own backyards. Is that what we want in this province? The G/O's want that. If you source the fear mongering from the WK crowd, the so-called thousands that are coming to slaughter everything in sight, I betcha there's a G/O's name attached to it. And some residents have bought it hook line and sinker.

[dana]

Nice job on the 340+ bull! There is a ton of people in BC begging for an opportunity at a bull like that (not too many people have one). Maybe Dana should stack his Mule Deer up to North American standards!!! THEY ARE NOT A ONCE IN A LIFETIME!!!:wink: hahahaha

Exactly. That's why I kill the deer I do on a regular basis. They ain't once in a lifetime deer.

[dana]

Dana, you seem to speak more of waiting for the "big one" I appreciate the fact that you have dropped some big bucks, but not all of us care about the size of the animal, some of us still enjoy hunting in the way we define it.


Rob, do you know what sarcasim is? Read my posts a little better and you'll see where I was going with them. My whole point is exactly what you just said. Who cares about the size of the animal? Let hunters hunt the way they want to. If you are a trophy hunter, stop bitching about all the other hunters ruining 'your' opportunity. That is exactly what all this WK talk is about. The people bitching about the opening of the WK and the so-called slaughter that will happen this year are the ones that are saying you can't hunt the way you want too. I call them trophy hunter wannabes. They think they have what it takes, but they are pussies that need to harden the F### up. True trophy hunting takes a ton of effort and perserverance. It doesn't come easy like these yahoos think it should.

[GoatGuy]

Bow only is in Black because it ain't gonna happen! All those trophy hunters wouldn't want the bow hunters to have an early crack at it would they!

Thought you were opposed to a GOS?

Or is it conditional upon social factors?

What happened to the 'conservation concern'?

So confusing.................

[dana]

For two months all I have read is your opinions.. which you try to cram down peoples throats. We get it. You are pro GOS and don't have the same concerns as a few that have voiced them here. I respect the fact that you are for a GOS.. Some don't agree with a GOS. Leave it at that.
By the way, I certainly don't consider your opinions god like either and the last guy that was considered perfect was stuck with a sword and hung on a post.
Just proof of another condescending remark in your posts.. So here's one for ya..
C'mon Bambi.. if you can't say something nice.. don't say nothing at all...

Vader,
I just looked at the date of my first post on the whole WK elk issue. April 21 in this very thread. How many other many WK threads have been posted up this winter? Several if my memory serves me right. I think it was late Jan or early Feb when our local radio tower was off air and the only thing we could pick up on the truck radio was CBC. That is when I first heard the Bull$hit being spewed about the WK Slaughter. And yet I never said a thing on HBC until I commented 8 days ago on this thread. Sooo where do you get your two months of me shoving my GOS point of view down everyone's throat????

[GoatGuy]

same concerns as a few that have voiced them here. I respect the fact that you are for a GOS.. Some don't agree with a GOS.

Certainly isn't anything wrong with concerns however we need to make sure what kinds of concerns people are actually voicing (ie conservation or social).

At times people will cover one with the other or misidentify one for the other.

I think as 'conservationists' it's our job to correctly identify the threats and deal with them. Incorrectly hiding behind one 'concern' which is known to be incorrect can be problematic for conservationists and the public. In a round about way, we should be dealing with fact; otherwise there is no distinction between 'us' and the 'antis'.

That, I believe, is the part of the reason of having a discussion. :wink:

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy, Yes..you are confused....just like me...different opening dates and no bow...yup...confused.

[budismyhorse]

Fellas....

I think what the poster meant by "hunt of a lifetime" isn't the fact that he took a 340 bull or whatever.

Its that he likely hunted it unpressured and had a bunch of different bulls to choose from/wade through to take his bull. From what I've been told by tag holders in the past:

They were blown away by the sheer number of bulls coming in to calls everyday until they connected. It was unlike any elk hunt they had been on. No one around and bulls everywhere. Regardless of the size of the racks or scoring system BS people spew about....it was the hunt that they were impressed by.

That said, BC isn't managing for that kind of experience, they would rather have everyone get a chance at these elk and forgo that type of "experience" for the betterment of all hunters in the province instead of select few tag holders.

To be perfectly honest, hunting elk on your own with no one around is the best......thats why I own horses, to get away from the masses in the EK.

In the West koots, you just may have to work a little harder now thats all.

cheers

[aggiehunter]

Budismyhorse, Nail on the head...

[dana]

Bud,
That helps make my point even more. The wannabe trophy hunters want an easy Big Un. They don't want to work. Therefore, they bitch about the easy areas will now have more hunters. You want a big bull, you can still get one. Just get off your ass and stop whinning and get er done. Horses do help. But a backpack and a strong back will do the same.

[budismyhorse]

For sure Dana, you DO NOT need horses to get away from the masses, anywhere.

I just like pain and suffering and I hate money.....so I own horses.

[kootenayelkslayer]

I really don't see what all the concern is about. There isn't going to be a slaughter, first of all. Secondly, it is going to allow a ton of WK residents to freely hunt their 'backyards' finally (granted, for a fairly small period of time). It's also going to let some out of towners come test their luck for a big bull. When they become frustrated by the difficulty of the hunt, they can drive a couple hours back to the EK. Sure, some of the main valley's are going to get a bit congested with hunter traffic, but as long as no one slips a tracking device in my backpack, I'm not worried about it at all. Here's a hint though, I'll be hunting that big patch of timber on top of that ridge a couple hours hike from the nearest road. See ya there!

[bighornbob]

Here's a hint though, I'll be hunting that big patch of timber on top of that ridge a couple hours hike from the nearest road. See ya there!

*******, thats my fricking spot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-D

BHB

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy, Yes..you are confused....just like me...different opening dates and no bow...yup...confused.

No conservation concern?

[Gateholio]

]
Rob, do The people bitching about the opening of the WK and the so-called slaughter that will happen this year are the ones that are saying you can't hunt the way you want too.


No plans to hun the WK, but I agree..



I call them trophy hunter wannabes. They think they have what it takes, but they are pussies that need to harden the F### up. True trophy hunting takes a ton of effort and perserverance. It doesn't come easy like these yahoos think it should.

I'm a wannabee trophy hunter, but at least I acknowledge that:wink:

To others:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy..no conservation concern with a bow..surely you can answer that.

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy..no conservation concern with a bow..surely you can answer that.

I see, social desires under the guise of conservation. Nice to see decadence isn't localized.

[eastkoot]

The ringleader of the anti-GOS protests is a pretty well known trophy hunter in the area...wouldn't call him a wannabe.



Someone used the wrong word, I think it's NIMBY not WANNABE:wink:

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy, The question you posed was a hard one and even you are having difficulty with it. Conservation concern? Well SCIENCE will say no...socially however...having opening dates different will create a huge shitstorm of Elk hunters travelling for both the WK and EK GOS...is that socially acceptable. It certainly goes against the governments own doctrine of generalization. As for NO bow only in the WK for those giants that is just socially unacceptable for the powers to be...you know...the gladhanders of the BCRF. As far as one poster stated "tons of WK hunters will get to enjoy a hunt in their backyard" but alas they will be scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened...but I digress....SCIENTIFICALLY it will be just fine...Socially........???????

[Gunner]

Last time I looked we had free access to the crown land in BC,is it socially acceptable for Mainland salmon fisherman to inundate Vancouver Island to catch a few springs,just because they don't have salmon in the Peace or in the Koots?.Wild game is a common property to all legal licenced citizens of the Province,not some thing you'd like to hide away because you consider it's "yours ".There is no conservation concern,case closed.Your concerns don't hold any water,but that's nothing new. Gunner

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy, The question you posed was a hard one and even you are having difficulty with it. Conservation concern? Well SCIENCE will say no...socially however...having opening dates different will create a huge shitstorm of Elk hunters travelling for both the WK and EK GOS...is that socially acceptable. It certainly goes against the governments own doctrine of generalization. As for NO bow only in the WK for those giants that is just socially unacceptable for the powers to be...you know...the gladhanders of the BCRF. As far as one poster stated "tons of WK hunters will get to enjoy a hunt in their backyard" but alas they will be scratching their heads wondering what the hell just happened...but I digress....SCIENTIFICALLY it will be just fine...Socially........???????


It's good to hear were dealing with social issues now.

The only reason the season was delayed is because of the social backlash. The no bowhunting was never discussed to my knowledge. There has been no opposition to a bow season.

[GoatGuy]

Who are these "wannabe trophy hunters" you keep mentioning? The crowd making the stink around here doesn't even consist of that many elk hunters. Some are retired bio's that have directed a ton of money towards habitat enhancement and conservation that has helped the populations and grown some huge bulls. Others are conservationists that simply like seeing big elk around and finding sheds in the spring. The ringleader of the anti-GOS protests is a pretty well known trophy hunter in the area...wouldn't call him a wannabe.

I don't agree that these areas should stay LEH but I have a ton of respect for these guys that have put such a high value on habitat conservation over the years. They are part of the reason we have so many quality bulls around.
What you say is very true although there are just as many guys who support it that have done just as much if not more.

Also don't confuse age with quality.:wink:

[smoothbor]

dana, you are absolutly right, if the season opens here for 6pt bulls I will be out looking to top my 340, but if dosent happen oh well, all you can do is hunt hard and hope for the best, to be honest I would like to see my son get a crack at one he is my tags as a junior this year and i am really excited, I will go to the east koots to hunt in september to hit the rut, cause i hear our season will be in the beginning of October or something like that, i shot my bull on Oct 2 and they were still going good, the east koots is a family thing, we gather there from all over the province, this will be year 27. I understand that you have your opinions about GOS, and if its open its open and we all will have a great season maybe, there is lots of elk. we will see what the future holds for the trophy quality.

[J_T]

I'm optimistic the Government objective of harmony will result in an early bow season opportunity in the WK.

I have to admit, you two sure took a long time to divide the social and science discussion. I was able to see what you were both doing. I kept hoping.... The permissibility of the hunt is a social issue.

[mcrae]

To be honest I am not interested all that much in a rifle hunt for elk in the W.Koots I am however eagerly anticipating an archery season.

I already have the first 10 days of Sept booked off. If I don't get one with my bow I will take a few kicks at the can with the rifle but I really want to bow hunt....