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View Full Version : to many grizzlys killed?? this guys a joke



nolan-sawka
04-01-2010, 08:29 PM
British Columbia's controversial annual grizzly bear hunt leaves more of the animals dead than even the province's own wildlife guidelines allow, claims a new report by the David Suzuki Foundation that once again calls on the government to curb the trophy hunt.
The report was released Thursday -- on the first day of this year's grizzly hunt when hundreds of the bears will be killed by trophy hunters around the province, something critics have maintained is unsustainable and must stop.
"This is new science that really questions the sustainability of the hunt," Faisal Moola of the foundation said in an interview.
"This is a disaster in the waiting. If we do not act to protect the species given what we know about its vulnerabilities, we may no longer have bears."
The report uses provincial government records to examine the number of grizzly bears that were killed by humans between 2004 and 2008 and compares them with the province's own limits for what it calls the allowable human-caused mortality rate.
B.C.'s grizzly bears are divided into 57 different population areas.
The report says in 20 of those areas, hunting alone accounted for more grizzly deaths than the province's allowable mortality rates at least once during the five-year period of the study.
When combined with other human-caused grizzly deaths -- including legal kills by wildlife management officials and illegal poaching -- the mortality rates were exceeded at least once in 36 areas, or 63 per cent.
That higher number, said Moola, is the most important, because it shows that too many bears are killed even when the hunt doesn't push the grizzly deaths over the limits.
"You can't look at trophy hunting in isolation -- you have to look at trophy hunting in addition to the other sources of human-caused mortality," said Moola.
"What the study shows is that if you removed trophy hunting from the picture, you would actually drop the mortality rate below what the government thinks is sustainable."
The report is accompanied by a letter to Premier Gordon Campbell, signed by eight grizzly bear experts from Canada and the United States, urging the provincial government to establish a provincewide network of no-hunting zones.
British Columbia is estimated to be home to half of all grizzlies in Canada, and a quarter of the North American grizzly population.
B.C.'s grizzlies are considered a species of "special concern" by both the federal and provincial governments because of their slow reproductive rates and susceptibility to human activities.
Grizzly hunting is restricted in parts of the province, but every year a trophy hunt opens up throughout much of British Columbia during the spring and fall. The David Suzuki Foundation report estimates that, since 2001, an average of 253 bears a year have been killed by hunters in B.C.
There have been perennial calls for the hunt to be scrapped, but the Liberal government has consistently rejected those calls, arguing the hunt is sustainable and properly managed.
In 2001, the NDP government of the day implemented a moratorium on grizzly hunting, but that was overturned a few months later after the Liberals took power.
Environment Minister Barry Penner issued a written statement defending the province's grizzly management policies, insisting hunting wouldn't be allowed if it jeopardized the bear population.
Penner, who acknowledged he hadn't read the report and has told his ministry staff to review it, said the mortality rates set by the province are stricter than the standards recommended by peer-reviewed scientific studies of the region's grizzly population.
"Our record on grizzly bear population management is strong," he said.
"The independent Grizzly Bear Scientific Panel, comprised of independent bear experts appointed on the recommendation of the International Association for Bear Research and Management, confirmed that B.C.'s grizzly bear management approach is effective and that our population estimates are sound. "
He also noted the province has closed almost two million hectares of land to grizzly hunting along the North and Central Coasts, and there are other strict no-kill zones elsewhere in the province.
Hunting and outfitting groups sent out their own news releases responding to the report, challenging the study's conclusions and defending the hunt as sustainable and important to the province's economy.
Mel Arnold of the B.C. Wildlife Federation, which represents hunters and anglers, said harvest rates are set over five-year periods, so it's wrong to point to figures from a single year as evidence that too many bears were killed.
"They (the five-year averages) may fall above it in some areas, and if that is the case, we would support adjustments being made," Arnold said in an interview.
"Hunting and trapping is part of the heritage that built this country, and it's part of our culture."
There are differing opinions on the health of bear populations in British Columbia, and conservation groups such as the David Suzuki Foundation suggest the government's current methods to estimate how bears are actually roaming the wilderness are flawed.
Alberta placed a moratorium on grizzly bear hunting in 2006, and is currently examining whether to keep the ban or revisit the issue.
Last year, the Manitoba government added grizzly bears to a list of species protected under the provincial wildlife act.
Grizzly bears have been extinct from Manitoba for a century, but migrant bears from Nunavut have been spotted, raising hopes the species is making a return

Kid Hunter
04-01-2010, 08:36 PM
I saw a thing on the news tonight about the Grizzly hunt in BC and there was a guy talking saying too many bears are being shot and "evidence shows" that it's because of trophy hunting. Mighta been this guy not sure. Soon as the guy on the news said one word about the grizzly bear hunt I thought to myself "Oh boy here we go again!!!" I hate when they talk about all this stuff it just makes me mad.

nolan-sawka
04-01-2010, 08:43 PM
suuuch a joke, it pisses me off

papaken
04-01-2010, 08:56 PM
Saw the news report, totally biased. If they are going to interview one side they should have to interview the other side. It has gotten where you wonder if they are reporting the news or just taking whatever sensationalist crap they can find and calling it fact.

Steeleco
04-01-2010, 09:01 PM
So how is it the "human caused mortality" is always presumed to be by hunting. How many are killed to protect human life? Maybe even one of theirs??

nolan-sawka
04-01-2010, 09:13 PM
they'll change there opinion once david suzuki goes in the bush and a grizz is on him breahing down his neck they would probably go pro open bounty on them haha

pete_k
04-01-2010, 09:24 PM
The split second I got to see their map of where they think Grizz are "extinct"
suffice is to say, they don't get out much. Ecofreaks.

I caught that too. Poor choice of words (and they were chosen).
It seems as though the DS spokesperson is ignorant.

It makes as much sense as saying Canadians are extinct in France.
How can you be extinct if you don't live there in the first place?

If the numbers are dropping. Sure, I could live with that. But the consistant over dressing of statements proves that most activists are thier own worst enemies. If they keep Crying Wolf like that it'll only be a matter of time before no one belives them period. Which is kind of sad, because I do belive they serve a purpose.

Steeleco
04-01-2010, 09:38 PM
Actually, of late folks are seeing Grizz in places not normal. Not just a few members here have seen Grizz in and around Squamish, another posted pictures of a Grizz in the upper Pitt. Also Mainland hunter told me of the day when he saw 5 in the hills above Boston Bar.

So one has to ask, if simple hicks like us can find them in all the out of the norm places, how is it the "educated scientists" can't find them? Answer, they never left the office!!!!

hillclimber
04-01-2010, 10:33 PM
So one has to ask, if simple hicks like us can find them in all the out of the norm places, how is it the "educated scientists" can't find them? Answer, they never left the office!!!!

Couldn't agree more with you Steeleco.

I just wish that every person who opposes hunting, would go out into the bush and actually see the abundance of wildlife that is out there. Maybe they will finally change their minds.

guest
04-01-2010, 10:48 PM
Likely almost time that pressure from the uneducated non hunting community will win over the powers to be. What a joke, every person living in or around where grizz are or have been have played a part in displacing this critter ...
no different then the Bison on the Prairie, or Elk moving to high ground. Man has disrupted the balance of nature every where and there are tons of G bear out there where hunts are possible and will not effect the population negatively. Whats even more upsetting is the way these sympathetic reports like Deb Hope ( global ) shake there heads and scowl while reporting such bias information....... man I hope I draw and Kill this year.
Also another thing is the definition of what the general Population calls Trophy hunters. I will not shoot a G bear without taking the meat, so they still call me a trophy hunter. Pound sand all you tree huggin, chicken eatin, veal swallowing fools. I hope some day your out there enjoying the birds singing, trees blowing in the wind while you displace the mountain goats and sheep from their range so you can get a good view of what you think is not affecting wild life, and a g bear decides to have a ( save the G- bear hugger) for dinner.
Enjoy your chicken or pork dinner the next time your on the highway and see chickens and hogs stuffed in crates on there way to slaughter, if you look close they will actually shed a tear as you let them to go to die.
Get off your sound box you bunch of clowns.

Signed .... give me a LEH before it's done!

CT

papaken
04-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Only caught a brief look at the map that showed where grizzlies are "extinct", was Vancouvers West End on it? Maybe mr. suzuki and his friends could have some transplanted there I'm sure people wouldn't mind. After all they are just big teddy bears. Just because they are not found in every area in the province doesn't mean they are "extinct". I was told there were no grizzlies near Yale, yet I saw one feeding on salmon a few years ago just a few kilometers up river.

hunter1947
04-02-2010, 06:12 AM
Thats a crock I won't by it at all what I have been seeing in the last 5 years Grizzlies are on the increase.

ratherbefishin
04-02-2010, 06:25 AM
one of the things I would like to ask these people is do they actually believe if it weren't for humans, all wildlife would live a fairytale existence''and they lived happily forever after''The FACT is once any older mature male grizzly has passed on his gene pool,his existance is redundant...whether the animal rights people want to believe it or not.Mortality is 100% in ALL species,from one cause or another-a fact they seem to overlook.I'd like to see them go on record with the answer to''so-if there was NO grizzly hunt-what eventually happens to the bear that wasn't killed by hunters?Does he live forever?and if he doesn't-how does he die?

SHAKER
04-02-2010, 08:23 AM
Just liberal propoganda and tree hug'n hippy bull $#!t. Write your letters and educate people who actually have brains that arnt stuffed with this garbage... some are beyond help or inlightenment but when was the last time some you talked to was adament about global warming? so maybe theirs help for the human race yet!:twisted:

.330 Dakota
04-02-2010, 08:25 AM
We should convince Suzuki to do the study himself--you know, like Timothy Treadwell, those stats seemed to have worked out well

David Heitsman
04-02-2010, 09:36 AM
FYI,

The Feds and Guides are aggressively trying to discount this story. I had hoped it was an April Fool's joke. Interesting how neither were contacted for their input in the story...

ratherbefishin
04-02-2010, 09:42 AM
one common belief that the anti's tout that has been debunked is the idea that grizzlies are being killed by ''foreign'' sportsman-while the record shows 79% were harvested by local residents.....but as they well know-and count on is media driven perception is what the voting [and donating]public believe -not facts

How much attention is given to the fact that one of the biggest causes of cub mortality is predation by mature boars[the target of grizzly hunters]-and removing some of them increases the chances of cubs attaining adulthood?

trapperRick
04-02-2010, 10:09 PM
The Gov could finish the debate once and for all by making it a meat hunt then it would not be seen as a trophy hunt or am I missing something. One of the main arguments of the tree buggers is that the meat is not used (I know most guys take the meat but the regs don't say you have to). So maybe I am missing something but seems simple to me

Kirby
04-02-2010, 10:38 PM
The Gov could finish the debate once and for all by making it a meat hunt then it would not be seen as a trophy hunt or am I missing something. One of the main arguments of the tree buggers is that the meat is not used (I know most guys take the meat but the regs don't say you have to). So maybe I am missing something but seems simple to me


This isn't about the meat, this is about hunting. If its all about meat why did they get Spring bear hunting banned in Ont? Or New Jersey? This isn't about a "trophy" hunt that's just their excuse, give in and make it illegal to leave the meat and they will just go off about how its an unsustainable hunt, cruel, orphaned cubs etc etc. They will spew forth any bullshit required to get rid of our hunting.

Kirby

bigwhiteys
04-02-2010, 10:44 PM
I think the best thing we can do right now is show the government our interest in bear hunting... Buy 2 black bear tags and write a letter to penner telling him how much money you think you'll spend chasing them and how much you enjoy the opportunity to do so.

If everyone did that we'd be taking a step in the right direction :)

Carl

papaken
04-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Bought my black bear tag today:-D When I fill it I'll buy another:wink: Don't hunt Grizz but I support those that do. If we let them ban grizzly hunting they will just keep moving down the list:evil: Suzuki and his ilk will not be happy until we got nothing left but tofu burgers and granola bread:cry:

Caribou_lou
04-03-2010, 08:37 AM
They think a story like this is going to help the grizzly bears at all? Whenever I see a push to close the grizz hunt, you have to think to yourself, "How many smaller grizzly bears may be shot by guys thinking this could be their last chance?".

.330 Dakota
04-03-2010, 10:05 AM
The Gov could finish the debate once and for all by making it a meat hunt then it would not be seen as a trophy hunt or am I missing something. One of the main arguments of the tree buggers is that the meat is not used (I know most guys take the meat but the regs don't say you have to). So maybe I am missing something but seems simple to me

Hey man good idea...that takes a lot of wind out of their sails now doesnt it. The outfitters could give the meat away if their clients dont want it and us residents could do the same, or actually eat it.
They specifically call for the end of Trophy hunting so lets give them what they want and then if they come back to the table with more requests they will have NO CREDIBILITY.........good idea I like it

BlacktailStalker
04-03-2010, 10:16 AM
Yes pack out the meat, shitty job but if its the best ammo we have against them lets use it.

Remember, only quarters deemed edible need to be packed out and grizz can take take some lead up front ;)

.330 Dakota
04-03-2010, 10:20 AM
Yes pack out the meat, shitty job but if its the best ammo we have against them lets use it.

Remember, only quarters deemed edible need to be packed out and grizz can take take some lead up front ;)

Absolutely, we need to put this thing to bed once and for all.
I am originally from Northern Ont, and I remember reading how the Grizz hunt was stopped a few years back...I was horrified for you guys.
Now I am a BCer and I am here to stay and to fight for our rights.
These pricks will never go away unless we end it permently

Kirby
04-03-2010, 03:52 PM
I am originally from Northern Ont, and I remember reading how the Grizz hunt was stopped a few years back...I was horrified for you guys.


And why did you guys loose your spring bear hunt in Ont??? Its not about the "trophy" part of the hunt, its about the hunt. ALL hunts can be considered trophy hunts as we don't "need" to hunt to get meat.

Compromise is surrendering in small steps.

Kirby

gutpile
04-03-2010, 04:19 PM
The Gov could finish the debate once and for all by making it a meat hunt then it would not be seen as a trophy hunt or am I missing something. One of the main arguments of the tree buggers is that the meat is not used (I know most guys take the meat but the regs don't say you have to). So maybe I am missing something but seems simple to me
That will eventuality happen, but i hope not for a long time. I say that when we hunters buy a hunting license and we harvest an animal it becomes ours. And what we do with it is no buddys business.

.330 Dakota
04-03-2010, 04:26 PM
And why did you guys loose your spring bear hunt in Ont??? Its not about the "trophy" part of the hunt, its about the hunt. ALL hunts can be considered trophy hunts as we don't "need" to hunt to get meat.

Compromise is surrendering in small steps.

Kirby
We lost the spring hunt in Ont because the system was flawed. It was perfectly legal to shoot sows with cubs. After a few tree huggers saw this they went nuts on the Govt and hence they banned all bear hunting in the spring with the idea of protecting new cubs.
In reality they should have had a system where it is illegal to shoot a bear in a family group, or any bear under 2 years of age....ya know like it is here

.330 Dakota
04-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Compromise is Surender in small steps, I agree but can we win this one with a full frontal challenge. I would love just to say @#$#@ off, but somehow I dont think that will work on these tofo terrorists