Pointless LEH: Age-restricted hunts?

[jml11]

I was browsing the LEH synopsis and noticed a couple of very underutilized hunts and then noticed that they are both age-restricted hunts. So I looked at the synopsis from the 2 previous years and they are underutilized then as well (although the 2008-2009 season for muley in Region 5 was new that year so there are no previous years odds). Why wouldn't they just put these on GOS like other youth seasons hunts?

The hunts I am refering to are the REgion 5 mule deer and REgion 7b calf moose age restricted hunts as shown in post 2:

[jml11]

Region 5 Mule Deer:

from 10-11 synopsis:

5-01 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 100 0.7:1
5-02 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 375 0.6:1
5-03 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 80 0.5:1
5-13 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 86 0.5:1
5-14 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 214 0.4:1
5-15 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 20 0.3:1

09-10 synopsis:

5-01 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 100 1.4:1
5-02 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 375 1.3:1
5-03 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 80 0.4:1
5-13 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 86 0.5:1
5-14 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 214 0.4:1
5-15 Oct. 1-Nov. 30 Antlerless only 14 0.2:1

Region 7B Moose:

10-11 Synopsis

7-32 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.9:1
7-33 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.7:1
7-34 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.4:1

09-10 synopsis:

7-32 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.8:1
7-33 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.6:1
7-34 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.3:1

08-09 synopsis:

7-32 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 1.0:1
7-33 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.6:1
7-34 Aug. 15-Sept. 30 &Oct. 16-Oct. 31 Calf Moose 80 0.3:1

[Ozone]

It comes down to one word - Money

[scope-bite]

That one stumps me. I thought switching to GOS would save the gov money because the LEH system costs them a lot more to run. That was part of the rationale for switching the West Kootenay elk to GOS. Nice to see the opportunity out there for younger hunters.

[Fisher-Dude]

Well, region 5 is managed solely for the benefit of GOABC, so that's why hunts that should be on GOS are still on LEH. Ask Rodger Stewart why he loves the outfitters so dearly.

Ozone, GOS raises much more money than LEH, so that's not the reason in this case. $15 deer tags bring in more than $6 LEHs.

[Ozone]

Ozone, GOS raises much more money than LEH, so that's not the reason in this case. $15 deer tags bring in more than $6 LEHs.

My thought here was becouse they all are drawn, they are getting $21/deer.

[deerstocker]

Ozone u r so right on the money

[GoatGuy]

Region 5 I'm getting a migraine

[BCrams]

Old news. Region 5 is a mess. Roger is the man to ask ;)

[Blk Arrow]

Just as a matter of information, prior to the 2008-2009 season there was 1 youth leh for anterless mule deer covering units 5-01, 5-02, 5-03, 5-13, 5-14 and 5-15. My son was drawn in 2007 and sucessfully harvested his first deer. I do not recall the exact odds but I do remember them to slightly greater than 1 to 1.

[GoatGuy]

I have a headache.

[reach]

The fact that they're underutilized should be taken into account when they calculate the total expected harvest, no?

Hypothetical example with made up numbers: if there are 80 potential tags, and it's usually 0.3 to 1 odds... that's 24 tags issued. Multiply by estimated success rate (0.25 for example) to get a harvest of 6 critters.

If they allocated those same 6 critters to another (non-age-restricted) hunt, they could expect full utilization (oversubscribed - all tags issued) and *maybe* higher success (guess 0.5?) so they would add 12 authorizations to some other hunt.

Either way it should be the same harvest of 6 animals. They're just trying to make it more enticing for new hunters I would think, to provide draws where they can be assured of having the excitement of winning the draw and going on the limited entry hunt.

[GoatGuy]

The fact that they're underutilized should be taken into account when they calculate the total expected harvest, no?

Hypothetical example with made up numbers: if there are 80 potential tags, and it's usually 0.3 to 1 odds... that's 24 tags issued. Multiply by estimated success rate (0.25 for example) to get a harvest of 6 critters.

If they allocated those same 6 critters to another (non-age-restricted) hunt, they could expect full utilization (oversubscribed - all tags issued) and *maybe* higher success (guess 0.5?) so they would add 12 authorizations to some other hunt.

Either way it should be the same harvest of 6 animals. They're just trying to make it more enticing for new hunters I would think, to provide draws where they can be assured of having the excitement of winning the draw and going on the limited entry hunt.

I think the question is why wouldn't you just have a youth GOS instead of a youth LEH.

[oldtimer]

Well, region 5 is managed solely for the benefit of GOABC, so that's why hunts that should be on GOS are still on LEH. Ask Rodger Stewart why he loves the outfitters so dearly.

Ozone, GOS raises much more money than LEH, so that's not the reason in this case. $15 deer tags bring in more than $6 LEHs.
Hate to disagree but the spike fork in region 5 was manipulated strictly by and for the first nations. Then for the GOABC. Mike

[jml11]

I think the question is why wouldn't you just have a youth GOS instead of a youth LEH.

Yes it was.

I understand, well I guess I should say, I am aware of the potential reasons in Region 5 (understanding them is something else) but that doesn't explain the Region 7B hunts.

Altough I am not sure why any GOABC members should be worried about a few teenagers taking a few does...based on the recent odds, the interest is pretty low and there is really no threat even with a youth season GOS. Perhaps the bios think the harvest close to 100 mile and Williams lake would be too high and are hoping to spread out the pressure? Well maybe you just don't have a youth season near those centers if it's a concern? I thought youth seasons were developed to promote hunter recruitment but I am not sure how having them under LEH helps that mandate. Obviously they are gimme hunts and anyone applying is virtually guaranteed a tag so that may not detract new hunters anyways, but it just seems unnecessary...


Just as a matter of information, prior to the 2008-2009 season there was 1 youth leh for anterless mule deer covering units 5-01, 5-02, 5-03, 5-13, 5-14 and 5-15. My son was drawn in 2007 and sucessfully harvested his first deer. I do not recall the exact odds but I do remember them to slightly greater than 1 to 1.

It was 1.6:1 I believe.

[hunter1947]

Because they are biologist and they no what they are doing :mrgreen:..