good news on leh schedule

[bridger]

Here is the latest proposal from the moe on this year's leh draws. Keep in mind it is a proposal and may have to be tweaked, but definately a step in the right direction. Thanks MOE!

The proposedLEH schedule for2010/11 is as follows:
Posting of the synopsis on the F&W Br. Website:byMarch 26, 2009 (this Friday).
Distribution of paper synopsis:initiated by April 13th, full distribution completedby April 19th
Closing Date for Applications: May 21st
Notification of drawresults is anticipated to be by June 18, 2010.
For comparison, last year (2009/10), the dates were:
Posting of the synopsis on the F&W Br. Website: last week of April.
Distribution of paper synopsis: 1st week of May
Closing Date for Applications: June 12th
Notification of drawresults was mid July.
The 2010/11 schedulewillprovide hunters with about 4 wks to reviewthe synopsisand submit their LEH applications, (but considerably longer if they check the website).In addition we anticipate hunters will be notified of the draw results almost a month earlier than lastyear.

[Cole]

Dude , check your post, something is buggered.

[Fisher-Dude]

Good! I guess the BCWF's and other pissed off hunters' pressure got some changes made at the top. Last year was indeed a gong show!

[Brett]

good news for sure! more time to plan

[Ghost Stalker]

where do you guys get this info? i have checked the bcwf site but dunna see anything. is it just something someone heard or is there a site that posts this kinda stuff?

[jml11]

Tweaked?? When? They don't have much time for feedback on this proposal. Or is this just their excuse if it isn't actually online by this friday? Obviously it's a good thing and hopefully I can check the website this Friday and download the synopsis.

[blackbart]

That is great news Bridger. Thanks for sharing. Now to try to remember what colour of pen to use and code to enter?

[bridger]

where do you guys get this info? i have checked the bcwf site but dunna see anything. is it just something someone heard or is there a site that posts this kinda stuff?

it will be on the bcwf site in a day or so and the ministry site by friday if al goes well.

[JoshCampbell]

this is the most exciting news allday

[coach]

That's great news, Bridger. Last year was ridiculous!

[The Hermit]

Great news. Where did you you hear this info?

[Doe Eyes]

I called last week and they told me almost the same thing...
Good news for sure...but I will believe it when I see it!

[ufishifish2]

Sweetness, this'll be one of the first times I can actually plan a LEH hunt. No last minute planning where half the people have to ditch!
I'll be impressed if they can pull this one off after last years stellar performance.

[hunter1947]

Hunters that do get picked for the LEH draw this year will have that extra time to put there trip together ,yes that is good news http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif..

[bowhunterbruce]

well ,it being the government,i for one will believe it when i see it.if it is indeed true and they come through,only then will i tip my hat to the ministry and ^5's will be sent to all those involved in making it happen.it would be the best news we have had in a very long time for sure

[kennyj]

Thanks Bridger.I'm glad to hear that.
kenny

[moosinaround]

It don't matter, I just need to know the codes for antlered moose in 7-10, elk antlerless in 7-20, Bison 7-5?, antlerless mule deer in 5-13 Zone B, and grizz in 7-23 Zone C. Simple!! The same every year!! Moosin

[BiG Boar]

So no more Christmas in July?

[moosetaken]

good news and government.....not a typical combo

[Caribou_lou]

good news and government.....not a typical combo

I always appreciate a good oxymoron when I see one.
This is great news. one needs to ask themselves. WHAT TOOK THEM SO FLIPPIN LONG!!! I think this will be much liked by government workers involved in the draw and hunters.

But then I ask myself. Why not run all the draws same time as early sheep draws? and run the spring grizz draw earlier in December or January??

[bridger]

one of the reasons always given for the later leh draws is that the regional bio's set the harvest levels in late winter early spring so it takes a while. The question I would like to see answered is if we have to wait for the bios to set harvest levels how can the moe issue guide quota's in february? The irony of this is if there has to be a reduction in the harvest it comes off the resident side as the quota's are already issued for the year.

[BCHunterFSJ]

Probably means that I'll just get all those NILS sooner...
But, seriously, that is good news indeed.

[stanway]

I am looking forward to seeing the LEH earlier. NIL or not, I look forward to planning the hunting season.:mrgreen:


James

[HD95]

This is good news imo,earlier is better..

[fowl language]

it is often asked what the bcwf does on here.well heres a prime example. many thanks to all on the allocations committee and all others in the fed that got this done,after many long hours, and many lettrs written and meetings tended......thx fowl

[Savage Man]

Good now if we can just get rid of this archaic system we use in B.C. and go to priority system life would be good.

[BCrams]

Good now if we can just get rid of this archaic system we use in B.C. and go to priority system life would be good.

Won't work in BC for the most part like it does in AB. You'd be in for a disapointment. Definatly need an upgrade to an online computerized system for sure.

[sarnold]

i agree... beleive it when i see it!
but a HUGE tip of the hat to the bcwf for all their hard work!! (they go unregonized to often!)

[Savage Man]

Won't work in BC for the most part like it does in AB. You'd be in for a disapointment. Definatly need an upgrade to an online computerized system for sure.
Not to hi jack the thread but I totally disagree that it wouldn't work. Maybe not for everything but in most cases it could work just fine.

[7mag700]

So I've been checking the site all morning for the new synopsis and thus far... NIL :-?

Should we start a pool on whether or not it'll actually be up today?

7m7

[ufishifish2]

Im in, but how would we pay up in the pool. How about another poll??
Love to see the numbers for "On time?" or "Not on time?" :)

[behemoth]

Not to hi jack the thread but I totally disagree that it wouldn't work. Maybe not for everything but in most cases it could work just fine.
Lots of pros and cons in this thread
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=36916&highlight=priority+alberta

[7mag700]

Im in, but how would we pay up in the pool. How about another poll??
Love to see the numbers for "On time?" or "Not on time?" :)

Prolly not many takers for the 'On-time' side eh? :)

7m7

[Fisher-Dude]

Not to hi jack the thread but I totally disagree that it wouldn't work. Maybe not for everything but in most cases it could work just fine.

It will NOT allow you to be drawn more often or give you one extra minute of hunting time if we go to a priority points system. You need to understand that first. There are X number of applicants for Y number of draws. Period. That won't change.

[Savage Man]

It will NOT allow you to be drawn more often or give you one extra minute of hunting time if we go to a priority points system. You need to understand that first. There are X number of applicants for Y number of draws. Period. That won't change.

I am from B.C. but I lived Alberta and let me first say I moved bac here because I love it but that said their system is far more fair and allows for alot more planning in advance. For a guy like me who has have his holidays booked by Feb. 15 it makes it tough to plan for a hunt that I have no idea if I am going to get drawn for. In Alberta I have priority 4 for moose this year where we go I only need Priority 3 at most to get drawn so I know I can plan for it. Then theirs the fact that a guy like my dad has been drawn for moose three time and I know other guys who have never been drawn. Another friend has been drawn twice for Grizz in the East Koot. ( High Odds ) but can't get drawn for a goat in 5 years 1.8 / 1 odds . There is no perfect system but priority sure seems better to me .

[Ozone]

Well, like they say.............you can always move back.

[Fisher-Dude]

I am from B.C. but I lived Alberta and let me first say I moved bac here because I love it but that said their system is far more fair and allows for alot more planning in advance. For a guy like me who has have his holidays booked by Feb. 15 it makes it tough to plan for a hunt that I have no idea if I am going to get drawn for. In Alberta I have priority 4 for moose this year where we go I only need Priority 3 at most to get drawn so I know I can plan for it. Then theirs the fact that a guy like my dad has been drawn for moose three time and I know other guys who have never been drawn. Another friend has been drawn twice for Grizz in the East Koot. ( High Odds ) but can't get drawn for a goat in 5 years 1.8 / 1 odds . There is no perfect system but priority sure seems better to me .

Here ya go, straight from The Man who knows more about LEH than anyone:


2. This is probably the single biggest question I get asked. Here is
the answer:

WHY BC DOES NOT USE A POINT PREFERENCE SYSTEM FOR ALLOCATING L.E. HUNTS

Point preference systems and pool systems (which are very similar) are
used in a number of North American jurisdictions. Alberta uses a
system in which points are accumulated each time an individual applies
unsuccessfully. Draws are preferentially given to those with the most
points first; the second most points second, and so on. When the system
reaches a point level where there are more applicants than remaining
available licences, the available licences are randomly assigned at that
point level. Upon being drawn, an applicant's points are deleted and
they start accumulating from zero again.

In 2005, Alberta had 213,749 applications for 71,950 available licences,
with overall average odds of 2.97 to 1. With such odds, on average,
applicants would be drawn roughly every 3 years even in a completely
random system. In B.C.'s 2005 draw, we received 151,972 applications for
26,476 available authorizations for overall average odds of 5.74 to 1,
nearly twice the average odds in Alberta.

If you examine Alberta's hunts in detail, you find that some of their
hunts are very easy to get, with many hunts in their WMU's actually
going undersubscribed. Eleven of their twenty-three categories have a
20% or better overall success rate (ie, odds of 5 to 1 or better),
encompassing 168,613 of their total 213,749 applications (79%). For
these hunts, their system will work very nicely, with people getting
drawn once every 5 years or better. However, with their high odds hunts,
it's a different story. If you want to hunt sheep in Alberta, you will
wait many years to reach the highest point level. In fact, some of
Alberta's sheep and goat hunts are not on a priority system because they
recognize that the demand is so high that nobody would get to hunt until
they reached extreme age. Fortunately, relatively few of Alberta's LEH
opportunities have such high demand, so overall their system meets their
needs.

In B.C. we are not so fortunate. In the 2005 draw, 286 of our 951 LEH
hunts had odds of 10 to 1 or higher, 161 hunts had odds of 20 to 1 or
higher and in 120 cases, the odds were 30 to 1 or higher. In some cases,
they were as high as 600 to 1. In fact, only 465 (about half) of our
hunts had odds of 5 to one or better. These 465 hunts represented only
39,834 applications out of a total of 151,972, therefore, only 26% or
our total applications were for hunts with odds of 5 to 1 or better. In
Alberta, about 80% of applicants are drawn after 3 attempts. In B.C.,
only 13% (19,751) of applicants faced odds of 3 to 1 or better in the
2005 draw, so no such turnover is possible here. Carrying the analysis
further, 41% (62,584) of our applications were for hunts with odds
greater than 10 to 1, 28% (42,992) of our applications were for hunts
with odds greater than 20 to 1 and 24% (36,690 ) of our applications
were for hunts with odds greater than 30 to 1. What this all means is
that if we go to a priority system, nearly half of our applicants can
expect to wait at least a decade, if not many times that, before they
will have any chance of being drawn. In a very few years, for many
hunts, the priority list will be so long that no new person taking up
hunting will have an opportunity to hunt prior to advanced age. Can you
imagine a teenager paying money annually to enter a system that might
provide them with a chance to hunt when they're 65 years old? Having
examined our odds situation, we believe that asking hunters to pay for
so many years before they have any chance of being drawn would be
fraudulent. Indeed, in the early 1980's, Montana scrapped their priority
system for elk because they found that nobody under a certain age would
draw a licence in their lifetime.

One suggestion we have considered relates to periods of ineligibility.
For example, we could decide that once a person has drawn a particular
species, they are not allowed to apply for some period of time.
Unfortunately, for many hunts, even once in a lifetime opportunities
don't help much. Using bison as an example, up to 2006, 38,153 people
have applied for bison in all of the draws that have ever been offered,
but only 1,454 have ever been drawn. If those 1,454 individuals were
barred from ever applying again, that would still leave 36,699 people
applying for 79 licences in the 2006 draw... not much of an improvement.
Additionally, periods of ineligibility have been offered to the BC
Wildlife Federation, but disagreement around the length of such periods
is always intense.

THE BC APPROACH

In British Columbia, we have developed a system we call 'enhanced odds'.
Rather than reward unsuccessful applicants, we reduce the chances of
previously successful applicants. All applicants that are drawn have
their chances reduced by 50% in the following year. In the case of
successful applicants for moose and Roosevelt elk, their chances are
reduced by 66% for the following three draws. This is done for all
species except deer, and the method was developed with the approval of
the BC Wildlife Federation.

The beauty of this system is that it does not discriminate against first
time applicants and it self-adjusts according to demand. If very few
people apply for a given hunt, then the system will automatically adjust
the odds reduction to less than 50% (or less than 66% for moose and
Roosevelt elk). This does not happen very often, but there are always a
few hunts that have low subscription, so there is no point in denying
opportunity to any applicant. This system does not eliminate repeat
success, but it keeps it at a low level.

The two main concerns with point systems are the length of turn-over
time for high odds hunts and the potential for these turn-over times to
discourage hunter recruitment. That being said, introducing a point
system for the compulsory inspection species (caribou, goats, grizzlies
and sheep) may be feasible if hunters want it. These are not entry
level species, so lengthy wait times would not significantly discourage
hunter recruitment.

[ufishifish2]

Im in, but how would we pay up in the pool. How about another poll??
Love to see the numbers for "On time?" or "Not on time?" :)

Well, it's the first time I have ever quoted myself, but I have to bow to the MOE and other various organizations for their efforts. I'll happily eat my words because the LEH synopsis did come out on time today. Pleasantly surprised.

[bridger]

fd that was a great explanation thanks for taking the time to put it up that could be thread by itself bridger

[bowhunterbruce]

ya awsome post there fd,that should open alot of peoples eyes that dont have a clue. well done dude

[Gunner]

This is good news,but the Guides still get their quotas in Feb. and we should too.That is one of the things the BCWF is fighting for.You can bet that getting LEH out this early took a lot of arm-twisting,MOE doesn't do much out of the goodness of their little hearts.It's a small victory,support your local club or join the BCWF....there's still a LONG way to go! Gunner

[ROM]

The explanation for the BC system could be argued to be based on the fundamental belief that chance is better than planning. The reduced odds expletive may actually have the inverse effect in that most people may never get the hunt.

R

[Fisher-Dude]

The explanation for the BC system could be argued to be based on the fundamental belief that chance is better than planning. The reduced odds expletive may actually have the inverse effect in that most people may never get the hunt.

R

Yeah, plan to hunt in the year 2064 under the AB system, instead of rolling the dice that you have the same chance as other applicants at being drawn this year in BC.

[Mamabear]

It's been on since yesterday...check out this link. A huge thanks to the BCWF and those that spend tireless hours pushing for changes that benefit resident hunters

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html)

[Fisher-Dude]

Th info provided in that post was from the fellow who ran the LEH for many years. I can't take credit for all the research he did. :wink:

[bridger]

I really didn't know how the alberta system works until fd posted the information which was great. I do know that from talking to guys i know in alberta they have a lot of leh hunts they don't need. Our system works pretty well but still needs a few tweaks. In my view we should be more concerned that leh hunts are really necessary and not just convienient or politically driven. Hats off the the moe for making these changes and changing some leh hunts to gos as promised.

[Savage Man]

Well, like they say.............you can always move back.

Wow now thats a great replie and adds alot to the conversation. I said I love it here and that is why I am back. That doesn't mean I think that thinks could not be changed maybe not the alberta system but their has to be a better way than what we have know.

[Ozone]

Wow now thats a great replie and adds alot to the conversation. I said I love it here and that is why I am back. That doesn't mean I think that thinks could not be changed maybe not the alberta system but their has to be a better way than what we have know.

Your welcome. I guess I could have written a 3 page essay on it but I tend to get off topic when I do so went for the straight to the point answer. It seems alot of us are quite happy with the current system and dont think the Alberta one would work here.

[Savage Man]

Your welcome. I guess I could have written a 3 page essay on it but I tend to get off topic when I do so went for the straight to the point answer. It seems alot of us are quite happy with the current system and dont think the Alberta one would work here.

Fair enough to each their own I know most of my friends would like to see it changed but everyone has their own ideas.