Ban all fishing nets. Hooks & line only

[Spy]

I have been pondering this for some years months & have decided to put it out there. Maybe Im not alone in my thinking!:wink:

Ban all fishing nets. Hooks & line only

If there were to be a ban on commercial fishing with nets for all fish in all the oceans World wide, it would give fish stocks a chance at survival:-D

If every fisherman were to be limited to using 2 hooks per line,It would take huge pressure off very low fish stocks.
Make it legal for ANY fisherman with a fishing license to sell his catch,up the quotas & this will supply our local markets & create allot of jobs.

I can see all fish stocks been depleted in the near future if we don't take drastic measures.:cry:

So all nets must go,2 hooks per line only!:-D

What are your thoughts?
Any other Ideas?

Lets hear it!:mrgreen:

[pnbrock]

im. with you ,troll caught fish are a far better qualitythan gill or sein net.dont agree with letting anyone sell fish though

[Ozone]

I have been pondering this for some years months & have decided to put it out there. Maybe Im not alone in my thinking!:wink:

this will supply our local markets & create allot of jobs.

What are your thoughts?


No it wont supply the market.

[ruger#1]

My thoughts are. Take the fish farms out of the migration routes. And put them out in the ocean.

[fowl language]

spy, i dont know what you do for a living but im sure in some way it harms the enviroment so we should ban your job as well and see how your family would like it.im a third generation fisherman, and yes the fish are in poor shape but but you should be pounding on the dfo who have mismanaged the fisheries because of politics.hopefully youre beter informed know....fowl

[525]

Commercial fishing has not even opened for non natives in the fraser for a couple of years,if it has maybe a one day opening.More fish taken by natives and poaching than commercial,no enforcement and no compliance of "food or ceremonial" catch numbers.Bad subject and 2 hooks will not cut it..

[Spy]

Lets take Springs for an example.If the quota was 10 per day, 5 guys per boat 50 fish caught & sold at ramp X by 50 boats thats 2500 fish per day for local market Im sure supply will meet demand.
The price of fish would go through the roof, which would be really good for them & local business.:-D

[Browningmirage]

Oh bugger, another fish management thread on a hunting forum...

If you think commercial fishing is the only thing doing our salmon/other fish in, you are very narrow minded. Though commercial fishing has done in something like 85% of the worlds stocks, it definately isnt the only thing. Sockeye fishing was closed in BC last year, and yet the returns were way below forecast.

Also, sport fishing has had a significant impact on fish stocks...only recently did we realize that recreational anglers took a substantial portion of the annual Chinook catch...what happens when we make it legal to sell your catch? People are greedy, part of the reason why management is so hard to implement.

I dont know the solution, but I know it will take a multi-faceted approach, aimed at fishing, habitat, enhancement, etc and would probably be a difficult pill to swallow by alot of people.

[ruger#1]

So what do you do in very bad weather when the boats can not get out? Are these shops going to wait?

[thunderheart]

thew concept is good .. i have fished commercially all ways .. back in the old days the rowboat fisherman used to spend several months following the fish .. good days ..........but unfortunately with stocks soooo low no money to be made ..least not anymore ..

let OZONE have his fish farm on land or waaaaaaaaay out to see and leave the migratory routes to the wild fish ....he can sell that shyte fish to the yanks and other countries ..
real canadians dont eat farmed fish ..
friends dont let friends eat farmed fish ..lol

[Spy]

spy, i dont know what you do for a living but im sure in some way it harms the enviroment so we should ban your job as well and see how your family would like it.im a third generation fisherman, and yes the fish are in poor shape but but you should be pounding on the dfo who have mismanaged the fisheries because of politics.hopefully youre beter informed know....fowl

Im a plumber by trade born to FISH.:-D
Im not trying to feed the world on the backs of others for profit. Fish belong to everyone, why do you get to take more than others? Not to feed your family or locals but the WORLD. What's up with that, Sounds like you are raping nature to make a Buck,I don't think that is right.:icon_frow

[Ozone]

Just to give you a example of markets, Marine Harvest Canada produced 45000 tonnes of salmon last year.

[30.06 Hunter]

I have been pondering this for some years months
You should probably ponder it for a few more years.

[Spy]

Just to give you a example of markets, Marine Harvest Canada produced 45000 tonnes of salmon last year.

Was that for the local market?

[Spy]

You should probably ponder it for a few more years.

Thanks for your 25c.:-D

[Browningmirage]

Was that for the local market?

yes...a tonne per person

[30.06 Hunter]

Thanks for your 25c.:-D
Thats more than your idea is worth.

[Ozone]

Was that for the local market?

Some was.

Do you only buy local products? your rifle, it was made in BC right from steel mined on the island? The gas you burn in your truck, its local right?

[Spy]

So what do you do in very bad weather when the boats can not get out? Are these shops going to wait?

The price of fish goes way up!:mrgreen:

[Salty]

Much of the world is fed on small herring sized fish. They feed on plankton. Good luck feeding the world that depends on them with a fishing rod.

[thunderheart]

Was that for the local market?

there is very few uneducated canadians eating that shyte .. back east maybe but like i said very few educated people ..
personally i have nothing against salmon farms .. just get them out of the oceans or at least out of the migration routes .. simple stuff .. be assured i am glad that there are those .. ozone included that make a good living in the industry .. just needs a little cleaning up ..

wished i had one of those little popcorn munchin smilies cuz thats what i would put after my post lol

[Spy]

Some was.

Do you only buy local products? your rifle, it was made in BC right from steel mined on the island? The gas you burn in your truck, its local right?

The gas in my truck could be local But, Its sold off to the rest of the world.My rifle could also be made here out of recycled steel, yes But we are getting off topic.:-D

[30.06 Hunter]

More canadians eat farmed salmon than wild salmon, mostly because it is a hell of a lot better than chemical laden wild salmon that have been fished to the brink of extinction.

[ruger#1]

I used to extrude fish pellets for Moore Clark. And you are full of shit 3006.There are lots of crap in fish pellets.

[Spy]

Oh bugger, another fish management thread on a hunting forum...

If you think commercial fishing is the only thing doing our salmon/other fish in, you are very narrow minded. Though commercial fishing has done in something like 85% of the worlds stocks, it definately isnt the only thing. Sockeye fishing was closed in BC last year, and yet the returns were way below forecast.

Also, sport fishing has had a significant impact on fish stocks...only recently did we realize that recreational anglers took a substantial portion of the annual Chinook catch...what happens when we make it legal to sell your catch? People are greedy, part of the reason why management is so hard to implement.

I dont know the solution, but I know it will take a multi-faceted approach, aimed at fishing, habitat, enhancement, etc and would probably be a difficult pill to swallow by alot of people.

I believe we all Have an impact on the fish. Fish farms , Comercial ,sport fishing it all adds up. But if our fish were worth more $$ than they would be worth looking after.Is that not how it works?

[30.06 Hunter]

I used to extrude fish pellets for Moore Clark. And you are full of shit 3006.There are lots of crap in fish pellets.
Extrude them out your ass? You obviously were no higher than a sweep up boy.

[ruger#1]

And i take it your in your twenties.

[Spy]

More canadians eat farmed salmon than wild salmon, mostly because it is a hell of a lot better than chemical laden wild salmon that have been fished to the brink of extinction.

They have been fished to the brink of extinction By nets. The see lice from the fish farms have done even more damage to the already low over fished stocks. When I said remove all nets that would include fish farms unless they are on land.

[Ozone]

.. just needs a little cleaning up ..


We need to get you out on a tour and show you how clean we are.

[30.06 Hunter]

There has been no damage to fish stocks by salmon farms. You should stop listening to the anti bullshit. Of course if you believe the antis about salmon farms you probably believe them about how banning the grizzly hunt is a good idea.

[Qwa-honn]

Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha weeeze ba ha ha ha ha ha
aboriginal rights and title.
I have fished with a net my whole life. No one is going to influence me to stop.
Yeah I fish different ... doesn't mean I enjoy it any less than anyone else on the river.

[Ozone]

[quote=Spy;642604] The see lice from the fish farms have done even more damage to the already low over fished stocks. [quote]

Oh christ not this arguement again. Can you not find other misinformation to argue with.

Ahhh the sky is falling, the sky is falling ahhhh run, run, lol

[Spy]

There has been no damage to fish stocks by salmon farms. You should stop listening to the anti bullshit. Of course if you believe the antis about salmon farms you probably believe them about how banning the grizzly hunt is a good idea.

Do you really believe that or are you trying to make yourself feel good about what you do?

[Browningmirage]

More canadians eat farmed salmon than wild salmon, mostly because it is a hell of a lot better than chemical laden wild salmon that have been fished to the brink of extinction.

chemical laden compared to wild stocks is a load of bollocks

Easton, M.D.L., D. Luszniak, E.V. Der Geest. 2002. Preliminary examination of contaminant loadings in farmed salmon, wild salmon and commercial salmon feed Chemosphere, 46:1053-1074

Hites, R.A., J.A. Foran, S.J. Schwager, B.A. Knuth, M.C. Hamilton, and D.O. Carpenter. 2004. Global assessment of polybrominated diphenyl ethers in farmed and wild salmon. Environmental Science and Technology. 38:4945-4949.

[Amphibious]

fishing lines only? how about spears only. if you're going to be elitist, how about selecting a method of harvest that actually requires effort and skill? ;)

[30.06 Hunter]

Do you really believe that or are you trying to make yourself feel good about what you do?
Having lived in BC all my life and lived on the island for more than 15, I feel very good about what I do and I am not bothered by the ill informed opinions of people who obviously have little clue as to what is actual truth and what is made up propaganda.

[Qwa-honn]

salmon stocks have been depleted greatly from all of the commercial fisherman in alaska before they even reach b.c. so i don't see why we are even talking about it .....it is not our fault.....it is the american fisherman with their great big sane nets who take the fish when they are still thousand of kilometers away from the spawning grounds....hakuna matata...no worries..IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!

[Burger64]

Ozone.I have a question for you.Does Marine Harvest plan to harvest its fish early this year before the juvinille pinks migrate past the pens?I heard it was a great success last year with about a 80% reduction in infection?Not stirring the pot just curious.Thanks

[Spy]

[quote=Spy;642604] The see lice from the fish farms have done even more damage to the already low over fished stocks. [quote]

Oh christ not this arguement again. Can you not find other misinformation to argue with.

Ahhh the sky is falling, the sky is falling ahhhh run, run, lol

I will tell you what is falling, is the numbers of fish in the ocean. Shout that as loud as you can.
By the way there is a reason that european salmon stocks crashed, its called FISH FARMS.

[Spy]

salmon stocks have been depleted greatly from all of the commercial fisherman in alaska before they even reach b.c. so i don't see why we are even talking about it .....it is not our fault.....it is the american fisherman with their great big sane nets who take the fish when they are still thousand of kilometers away from the spawning grounds....hakuna matata...no worries..IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!

Yup I agree lets take those nets away & make them use hook & line only.:-D

[30.06 Hunter]

[quote=Ozone;642609][quote=Spy;642604]
By the way there is a reason that european salmon stocks crashed.
Ya its called pollution and habitat distruction. Which is also the biggest problem in BC. Something you would know had you lived here very long.

[Ozone]

Ozone.I have a question for you.Does Marine Harvest plan to harvest its fish early this year before the juvinille pinks migrate past the pens?I heard it was a great success last year with about a 80% reduction in infection?Not stirring the pot just curious.Thanks

I really dont know all there plans, for I am just a small cog in the wheel. We are curently harvesting a fair bit in the Broughton area though, I think this may be the area you are asking about. You may find the answer here http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/

[Ozone]

I will tell you what is falling, is the numbers of fish in the ocean.

It has to do with the world population, so there is another way to get you fish back, get rid of the population.

[Burger64]

Thanks..Its nice to see them at least trying and listening

[Spy]

[quote=Spy;642621][quote=Ozone;642609]
Ya its called pollution and habitat distruction. Which is also the biggest problem in BC. Something you would know had you lived here very long.

I agree with all that there are many factors pollution & habitat distruction fish farms, commercial over fishing sport fishing ect. Im talking about banning all nets which would take huge pressure off the fish.

This is not a Canadian problem its world wide!I speak to many fisherman that have lived HERE all there lives & they all agree over fishing with nets has been the leading factor to the near collapse of fish stocks.

[steelheadSABO]

sounds like a good idea i shur would like to get payed to slay record amounts salmon on the river

[Spy]

It has to do with the world population, so there is another way to get you fish back, get rid of the population.

You don't have to feed the Worlds population, just Canadians.

[Spy]

sounds like a good idea i shur would like to get payed to slay record amounts salmon on the river

Sorry bud rivers would be catch & release only until fish stocks improved.:-D

[Ozone]

You don't have to feed the Worlds population, just Canadians.

So this is just a Canada ban?

[hardnocks]

we had a pretty good fishery when most of the fleet was made up of trollers . But a lot of thing are to blame like the distuction of streams but sien boats and the comercial herring fishery are high on the list of reasons why we have no fish. ....but a ban on nets worldwide would be a step in the right derrection.

[Spy]

So this is just a Canada ban?

No world wide. Until stocks improve!

[Ozone]

What about all the extra fuel burned for those fish, greenhouse gasses and such, have you thought about that?

[Browningmirage]

This thread is completely ridiculous. Im pretty sure this is simply a thread started and continued by people who for the most part have absolutely no clue. If you know so much how about you go get a degree, and try to manage the fisheries?

If theres one thing I have learned, it is that there is no single answer for any ecological question or dilema. We simply dont know what is going on. Otters killing all the crabs on WCVI??? What about Green Crabs? What about commercial fishing? Fish farms causing the decline in all salmon stocks??? the trend has been going on for years, since before fish farms became well established. Not saying there is no impact of fish farms, but there are many other things killing the fish right now, including recreation and commercial interests, habitat degradation, poor ocean conditions, genetic pollution, overstocking, etc, etc. When people try to get into a system and "make it better", we end up screwing it up.

As for Alaskans doing all the killing. Not sure. It is so easy to point your finger at someone else, and not do anything yourself. Its like we say about China being the biggest polluter in the world...not my fault right? What about North Americans being the biggest consumers on the planet? Buying the things that are produced in china through the rape and abuse of natural resources...do you buy chinese made products? Do you shop at walmart? You are part of the problem. Do you buy fish in the grocery store? Do you fish? Accept that you are part of the problem and work to reduce your impacts on the planet.

[Spy]

we had a pretty good fishery when most of the fleet was made up of trollers . But a lot of thing are to blame like the distuction of streams but sien boats and the comercial herring fishery are high on the list of reasons why we have no fish. ....but a ban on nets worldwide would be a step in the right derrection.

Im really not trying to ruffle anyones feathers thats not my intent!:-DI just want my kids to be able to catch fish one day.

[Ozone]

Maybe a total sports fishery ban will help?


LOL, just kidding

[Spy]

As I said in my first post "What are your thoughts any ideas?":-D

[Spy]

[QUOTE=Browningmirage;642658]This thread is completely ridiculous. Im pretty sure this is simply a thread started and continued by people who for the most part have absolutely no clue. If you know so much how about you go get a degree, and try to manage the fisheries?

I don't need a degree to know the oceans are been raped by nets.:confused:

[Johnnybear]

As I said in my first post "What are your thoughts any ideas?":-D

Exactly. You started a conversation and everyone thinks your uninformed or you need a degree:lol:. I love all the defensive posts. The ones that posted something to think about good on ya. It is something to think about........How about ranching the oceans(I'm not talking about farmed fish here either)? This comes up alot with the same reaction.....scared folks.

I for one appreciate you asking others thoughts on this. Thank you Spy:-D.

The EU needs a huge kick in the pants as so does DFO right here in our own country. World fishing pratice's need to be overhauled big time IMO. The OP was talking about the whole world not just Canada. It's a scenario to discuss.

I agree with the OP and I think fish prices are way to low especially wild salmon............and why do you think that is?

[Spy]

I think we could do a much better job in managing our oceans,fish!We can only do this by discussing the problems.
A Fish ranch, very interesting.:wink:

[Johnnybear]

I think we could do a much better job in managing our oceans,fish!We can only do this by discussing the problems.
A Fish ranch, very interesting.:wink:

An example that has been put out many times before and fought by the EU etc. Just like the end of free range cattle in the west. Every country owns certain rights to their oceans and they are sectioned off to bidding fisherman and are under tight managment and conservation, quota, etc.

I know this sounds like how we have it now but I'm talking International and World wide and sectioning off just about every square mile of fishable ocean.

[Spy]

An example that has put out many times before and fought by the EU etc. Just like the end of free range cattle in the west. Every country owns certain rights to their oceans and they are sectioned off to bidding fisherman and are under tight managment and conservation, quota, etc.

Problem with that is poaching with illegal nets. Poorer countries can't police there vast coast lines & are been raped because of it.
Even when the poachers are caught they have already dumped there nets often gill nets which keep on killing!:icon_frow

[Johnnybear]

Problem with that is poaching with illegal nets. Poorer countries can't police there vast coast lines & are been raped because of it.
Even when the poachers are caught they have already dumped there nets often gill nets which keep on killing!:icon_frow

Unfortunately that is the reality of it in most parts of the world. I don't have all the answers but I do know that we need more scientists in the field etc. More front people. LESS bureaucrats!!!!

Look into the successful Russian Salmon harvest of this past year. I don't agree with them harvesting all those fish just because they can but look into why they were ready for it. Something DFO could learn by.

Sorry for dancing around the original question. Do I think it would work? To support local economies like it should be for = yes. To support world wide "demand" (IMO they who are demanding should be paying way more for our fish)= no.

[dutchie]

I have not read all of the posts and I do not wish to.

I do not agree with fish farming so close to shore, and I will never buy farmed fish (or eat it) because it tastes like a freezer burnt fish that came from the Atlantic when it is cooked. It is disgusting and it has no place in my families home or in our bodies.

Not to mention the added fish crap that is heavily centralized in one area for so long. That alone has to change the PH in the water and mess with the environment...

Take it it a few km's off shore so the water is deeper and the fish crap is scattered out over many many square km's insted of maybe 1km sq.

and in my opinion that marine harvest canada is pushing their product...They will say and do anything they can to get what they want, and not look at the entire situation at hand. Or hell, lye about it like most other advocacy groups, and have spokes people pull the wool over everyones eyes and say "see we are doing it in everyone's interest"

Dutchie

[Gateholio]

I think sports fishers trying to supply salmon to markets would result in $150 /lb salmon:mrgreen:

As for farmed salmon- No way will I eat that crap. Looking at fish that has no fins properly formed and a good percentage of them with meat the texture of jello will put a guy off farmed salmon....:mrgreen:

[Ozone]

glad to here your the authority on fish farms there Dutchie

[Spy]

[QUOTE=Gatehouse;642730]I think sports fishers trying to supply salmon to markets would result in $150 /lb salmon:mrgreen:


$150/lb x 2 fish x 20 pounds(average) $ 6000 good days fishing Sorry working.:-D:-D:-D

[Johnnybear]

[quote=Gatehouse;642730]I think sports fishers trying to supply salmon to markets would result in $150 /lb salmon:mrgreen:


$150/lb x 2 fish x 20 pounds(average) $ 6000 good days fishing Sorry working.:-D:-D:-D

Someone else do the math for what is reasonable. Good post Spy:-D.

[Tenacious Billy]

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the magnitude and impact of much of the commercial fishing these days, but suggesting that commercial fishermen be limited solely to a hook and line method of harvest is akin to telling the logging industry that they should be limited to axes and hand-saws........it seems fairly unreasonable and unrealistic.

[Johnnybear]

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the magnitude and impact of much of the commercial fishing these days, but suggesting that commercial fishermen be limited solely to a hook and line method of harvest is akin to telling the logging industry that they should be limited to axes and hand-saws........it seems fairly unreasonable and unrealistic.

We can count trees fella can you see into the deep blue and tell us how many fish are down there:confused:. I just don't get your post at all:?.

[Tenacious Billy]

We can count trees fella can you see into the deep blue and tell us how many fish are down there:confused:. I just don't get your post at all:?.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a banning of commercial fishing in the context mentioned in this post. My only attachment to fishing is as a hobby - I just think it would be quite the uphill battle in persuading the powers that be to implement those sorts of changes in the places they need to implemented....that's all.

[22savage]

Land based fish farms only,treat your water going back to the ocean.Not sure what your going to feed your farmed fish with because I think the majority of your fish food is made from the reduction of net caugth fish. Give the DFO some power to stop the so call food and ceremonial native fisheries ,stop the creek robbing under these so called fisheries. (mandatory 10,000 fine for any one caught buying this fish)Stop the destruction of creeks and salmon habitat .Owner operator commerical fishing only,stop the leasing of quota and arm chair stake holders and I think there would be enough fish for all. just my 2 cents

[ROM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The above link talks about the 'tragedy of the commons'. This fundamental concept has governed human existence from the very beginning. People typically do what is best for 'them' at the expense of others. The depletion of fish stocks, the big garbage dump in the ocean, and overpopulation can be shown to be influenced by this.

IMHV things are going to get much worse before or if they get better.

R

[Browningmirage]

Originally Posted by Johnnybear http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=642786#post642786)
We can count trees fella can you see into the deep blue and tell us how many fish are down there:confused:. I just don't get your post at all:???:.


And your ranching of the oceans idea made sense? What about those non-commercially viable species that are still a forage base for everything else? ranching would essentially "do in" all those biodiversity values, not to mention in your scenario commercialize the majority of the oceans.

Just putting it out there, does anyone think that putting the billions of hatchery fish out there might be having an impact? We know the oceans resources are finite, and yet keep thinking that upping our smolt outputs will result in better returns...hasnt really happened yet. Whos to say they arent eating themselves out?

[Johnnybear]

And your ranching of the oceans idea made sense? What about those non-commercially viable species that are still a forage base for everything else? ranching would essentially "do in" all those biodiversity values, not to mention in your scenario commercialize the majority of the oceans.

Just putting it out there, does anyone think that putting the billions of hatchery fish out there might be having an impact? We know the oceans resources are finite, and yet keep thinking that upping our smolt outputs will result in better returns...hasnt really happened yet. Whos to say they arent eating themselves out?


Wasn't my idea and I never said it was:-D.

I was just putting it out there as well:wink:.

[Spy]

Land based fish farms only,treat your water going back to the ocean.Not sure what your going to feed your farmed fish with because I think the majority of your fish food is made from the reduction of net caugth fish. Give the DFO some power to stop the so call food and ceremonial native fisheries ,stop the creek robbing under these so called fisheries. (mandatory 10,000 fine for any one caught buying this fish)Stop the destruction of creeks and salmon habitat .Owner operator commerical fishing only,stop the leasing of quota and arm chair stake holders and I think there would be enough fish for all. just my 2 cents

Thanks to everyone who contributed.:-D Some really good suggestions & points.:-D I think if we all put our heads together we can come up with solutions!:wink:

[hardnocks]

Basicly whats done in our fishery is greed. Man had to catch fish faster and more of them more fish more money... Nets were just a tool same as a gun .
The only way to bring our fish back is to educate man to stop abusing our oceans . And we know that will not happen...There is enough proof of the damage fish farms do..but because their is money being made on the they will continue.

[ruger#1]

Hello

I apologize for a second email so soon, but important news on the issue of salmon farming has become daily. Most astonishing is the warning sent today to Canada from former Attorney General of Norway, Georg Fredrik Rieber-Mohn,

“we had an open goal to save wild salmon but we missed the target,”....”If you want to protect wild salmon then you have to move salmon farms away from migration routes. ”

I have posted his entire plea to Canada on my blog, see below for link.

I am working on a very serious incident in Nootka Sound/Esperanza Inlet where reports keep coming to me that sea lice are out of control on salmon farms. Neither the province nor DFO will act to stop this from spreading to eastern Vancouver Island, so we are doing the investigation for them. This problem is exactly what Rieber-Mohn is talking about.

http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=913af0e6-31ff-4ec4-b66f-908cbfc32c7a (http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=913af0e6-31ff-4ec4-b66f-908cbfc32c7a)

A group of us went to Nootka Island and found extremely high larval sea lice numbers. These farm salmon are being transported to Quadra Island for processing and a sample taken 90’ down from the plant’s effluent pipe found live lice eggs are pouring into Discovery Passage. Drug resistance in sea lice is causing serious problems in eastern Canada and Norway and means we stand to lose our ability to protect the Fraser sockeye. It is becoming increasingly apparent that wild salmon runs in BC, as in Norway, depend on de-lousing farm salmon that are on the migration routes. The Discovery Islands host 1/3 of all BC’s wild salmon during migrations as well as millions of Norwegian farm salmon. If these Nootka lice attach to the farm salmon we stand to lose a generation of wild salmon and more drugs will be used on our coast, with the end result being the situation in Norway loss of BOTH wild and farm salmon. I have contacted the federal and provincial governments all the evidence with no action from them to contain this. This is a well-known catastrophe. You can follow it by checking on my blog.

Dr Larry Hammell from the University of Prince Edward Island speaks about "an eruption of the lice last summer", developing resistance to sea lice chemicals, "treatment failures" etc http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/maritimenoon_20100126_26452.mp3 (http://podcast.cbc.ca/mp3/maritimenoon_20100126_26452.mp3)Professor Tor Einar Horsberg at the Norwegian School of Veterinary Science who said: "The harsh treatment that is needed to reach lice limits will lead to more resistant and multi-resistant lice. There is a dramatic development, and I'm worried how this will end": http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utskriftsvennlig/?artId=588564 (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utskriftsvennlig/?artId=588564)
"The sea lice situation is now out of control along the entire coast of Nordland and south” : http://www.nmf.no/default.aspx?pageId=121&articleId=2354&news=1 (http://www.nmf.no/default.aspx?pageId=121&articleId=2354&news=1)
I don’t know why we refuse to avoid the situation Norway is facing. It is not even good for the fish farmers. The province of BC maintains there is “no evidence” of drug resistance, but there is evidence everywhere people are willing to look.

You can join our efforts at www.adopt-a-fry.org (http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/)

Alexandra Morton

[Spy]

[quote=Spy;642604] The see lice from the fish farms have done even more damage to the already low over fished stocks. [quote]

Oh christ not this arguement again. Can you not find other misinformation to argue with.

Ahhh the sky is falling, the sky is falling ahhhh run, run, lol

Ozone I did not argue with you last night, But after Rugers last post I think we need a response from you! :-|
You told us yesterday that fish farms & sea lice were not to blame in the decline of salmon stocks.I ask "do you have any proof to back up your claims.":-D
Thanks in advance:wink:

[Spy]

Extrude them out your ass? You obviously were no higher than a sweep up boy.

30.06 get your Own head out of your ass! & grow up:wink:You know Fish Farms are Killing the wild Salmon.

[Salty]

yawn... anti fish farming drones everywhere these days

[ruger#1]

Not anti fish farm, Just get the farms out of the migration routes. When you realy look at it, Fish farmers have a lot to gain if there isn't any wild fish left.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Wow. It's not hard to tell from the previous posts who's against fish farms and who makes their living from them. Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth.

All I ever wondered is how something that has the texture of a banana could make such wonderful candied salmon? Always puzzled me.

[22savage]

I also am not anti fish farm; just make them land based and treat the out flow. No escapements. No disease transfer .No lice issues. No bottom destruction,and No chance of kiling off the wild stocks.

[spreerider]

can anyone find me one example of an onland salmon farm that has been in business for more than 4 years without a government bail out, because i have yet to see one and i sell equipment to fish farms.
there have been 5 attempts on the island to set them up and not a single one lasted more than 2 years.
the cost of electricity was too high running all the filters and circulation pumps, chillers and the land space it takes to equal one sea cage is huge, i dont have the numbers with me they are at work but each fish needs so much water, water flow and low temps to be healthy that its almost impossible to obtain and still make a profit.

I would love it if they could as i am an electrician by trade and would love to spend my days hooking up pumps and lights and such on dry land and not on a cage in the rain where everything moves and get broken 10X more than on solid dry land.

[Spy]

can anyone find me one example of an onland salmon farm that has been in business for more than 4 years without a government bail out, because i have yet to see one and i sell equipment to fish farms.
there have been 5 attempts on the island to set them up and not a single one lasted more than 2 years.
the cost of electricity was too high running all the filters and circulation pumps, chillers and the land space it takes to equal one sea cage is huge, i dont have the numbers with me they are at work but each fish needs so much water, water flow and low temps to be healthy that its almost impossible to obtain and still make a profit.

I would love it if they could as i am an electrician by trade and would love to spend my days hooking up pumps and lights and such on dry land and not on a cage in the rain where everything moves and get broken 10X more than on solid dry land.

Here's a stupid Question,why do we need fish farms? How many of you would eat Farmed Salmon?

[Ozone]

[quote=Ozone;642609][quote=Spy;642604] The see lice from the fish farms have done even more damage to the already low over fished stocks.

Ozone I did not argue with you last night, But after Rugers last post I think we need a response from you! :-|
You told us yesterday that fish farms & sea lice were not to blame in the decline of salmon stocks.I ask "do you have any proof to back up your claims.":-D
Thanks in advance:wink:

For the last 10 or so years Alex has been saying how we are killing all the pinks in the Broughton area with sea lice, yet the return numbers for the most part have been increasing more or less until last year when the numbers broke all the records. Its kinda hard to argue with the rivers full of salmon.

Alex has pretty much lost all credibility in the Broughton with her supporters so she has gone to a new area to make up her lies.

In the fallowing link you can find lice numbers from DFO and some other info http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aquaculture/pinksalmon-saumonrose/statement-declaration-eng.htm

On the Marine Harvest website you can see lice counts done monthly from all active farms. http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/farming_farm_locations.php

There is also alot of other info you may not know on the site http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/

I hope this helps. One day I will learn how to make small links.

[Ozone]

Here's a stupid Question,why do we need fish farms? How many of you would eat Farmed Salmon?

No stupid questions. We need them to supply the world market. I eat farmed salmon.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Quoted by Spy:
"Here's a stupid Question,why do we need fish farms? How many of you would eat Farmed Salmon?"


If I put two pieces of smoked salmon in front of you, one a farmed salmon and one a wild chinook, I'm sure that 9 out of 10 people would like the farmed salmon better.

I know that I do.

As an added bonus I also like the way the farmed salmon makes my piss a really dark yellow the next day.:smile:

[Spy]

[quote=Spy;643170][quote=Ozone;642609]

For the last 10 or so years Alex has been saying how we are killing all the pinks in the Broughton area with sea lice, yet the return numbers for the most part have been increasing more or less until last year when the numbers broke all the records. Its kinda hard to argue with the rivers full of salmon.

Alex has pretty much lost all credibility in the Broughton with her supporters so she has gone to a new area to make up her lies.

In the fallowing link you can find lice numbers from DFO and some other info http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aquaculture/pinksalmon-saumonrose/statement-declaration-eng.htm

On the Marine Harvest website you can see lice counts done monthly from all active farms. http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/farming_farm_locations.php

There is also alot of other info you may not know on the site http://www.marineharvestcanada.com/

I hope this helps. One day I will learn how to make small links.

Thanks for all the links.:wink:Im reading a book, Salmon Farming The whole story by Peter A Robson.
I am not sure all the facts & figures have been brought to the table! Because of all the millions of $$$ involved in fish farming & I don't think we will until its too late.:cry:
All the people apposing fish farms do not have anything to gain & seem to be pretty passionate.:-|I don't believe any of them would be doing what they are doing if they didn't believe there was a huge problem.

I do think we have gone way off course my topic,being
(Nets must go Hook & line only):-D
For I believe, if we could get a ban On Nets WORLD WIDE fish stocks would bounce back big time.
It would take allot for the human population to make a dent in the fish population,with 2 HOOKS / Line!:-D

[Ozone]

Does SA still have shark nets?

[Spy]

Quoted by Spy:
"Here's a stupid Question,why do we need fish farms? How many of you would eat Farmed Salmon?"


If I put two pieces of smoked salmon in front of you, one a farmed salmon and one a wild chinook, I'm sure that 9 out of 10 people would like the farmed salmon better.

I know that I do.

As an added bonus I also like the way the farmed salmon makes my piss a really dark yellow the next day.:smile:

Never had that problem after eating Wild Salmon!:wink:
But I Know after Ive had Vitamins or Red bull I piss dark yellow.:confused:
I can Smoke anything & make it taste good?:mrgreen:

I take you a bet if you put a wild & a farmed salmon together I Can tell the difference.:-D

[Ozone]

[quote=Ozone;643282][quote=Spy;643170]
All the people apposing fish farms do not have anything to gain & seem to be pretty passionate.:-|I don't believe any of them would be doing what they are doing if they didn't believe there was a huge problem.


There is big money in anti ism, hmm is that even a word.

[Spy]

Does SA still have shark nets?

Don't get me started!:icon_frow Ive had far too much to drink:mrgreen:

Too Many! Its called job creation,They have boats that go out daily to check them,& remove dead Sharks.:cry:Killing Machines!

[Ozone]

You can answer tommorow then:twisted:. It is about nets after all:mrgreen:

[dryflyguy57]

Browningmirage I agree with you . Lots of blame to go around . DFO is the biggest problem we have . Spy it sounds to me that you just want to keep fishing at others cost . Maybe the answer is for ALL sectors to stop for a couple of cycles . Would be interesting to follow the returns in on the west coast if that were to happen . Until we quit putting jobs,money and treaty rights ahead of the fish management I don't think there is much hope .

[Spy]

If you want to swim or surf in the ocean you got to take it as it comes,Ie sharks ect.I believe you have a choice!
Putting down nets on the back line to save bathers,surfers from shark attack,Is out dated & barbaric! I appose all nets!!! Hook & line only.

[Spy]

Browningmirage I agree with you . Lots of blame to go around . DFO is the biggest problem we have . Spy it sounds to me that you just want to keep fishing at others cost . Maybe the answer is for ALL sectors to stop for a couple of cycles . Would be interesting to follow the returns in on the west coast if that were to happen . Until we quit putting jobs,money and treaty rights ahead of the fish management I don't think there is much hope .

I could handle fishing, fresh water only, for a couple of years if the salt water fish would bounce back, great Idea.:-D
For me its about the fish!:-D:-D

[fuzzybiscuit]

Quoted by Spy:
" I appose all nets!!! "


What about hair nets? Nothing worse than finding a big black hair in your soft taco! Especially when you've already eaten 2/3 of it.

[Spy]

Quoted by Spy:
" I appose all nets!!! "


What about hair nets? Nothing worse than finding a big black hair in your soft taco! Especially when you've already eaten 2/3 of it.

Thank God I eat @ home & my wife is Blond!:-D:mrgreen::-D

[Gateholio]

When farmed salmon first started getting available, all the chefs thought it was great. We could get fresh salmon year round, and we could specify the size fish we wanted so we could cut it into the same size portions. It was pretty fatty, so it wouldn't dry out even if you forgot about it in the oven for a bit.

Eventually we started wondering about what we were serving, since most of the farmed fish never really grew any fins (they were all stunted and looked more like bumps) and quite often we would go to filet a salmon and the fish would basically fall apart into a mushy, jello like substance. The meat was just mush and the bones would just pull out by giving a tug on them, there was no substance to the meat.

When the time came to make a decision regarding which product to use, I went with wild salmon. I assume that the fins dont' develop because they are packed into the pen, and don't swim far, and I have no idea why the meat was such mush on some of them, but it was enough to make me not want to buy it ever again, and I haven't.

[Spy]

When farmed salmon first started getting available, all the chefs thought it was great. We could get fresh salmon year round, and we could specify the size fish we wanted so we could cut it into the same size portions. It was pretty fatty, so it wouldn't dry out even if you forgot about it in the oven for a bit.

Eventually we started wondering about what we were serving, since most of the farmed fish never really grew any fins (they were all stunted and looked more like bumps) and quite often we would go to filet a salmon and the fish would basically fall apart into a mushy, jello like substance. The meat was just mush and the bones would just pull out by giving a tug on them, there was no substance to the meat.

When the time came to make a decision regarding which product to use, I went with wild salmon. I assume that the fins dont' develop because they are packed into the pen, and don't swim far, and I have no idea why the meat was such mush on some of them, but it was enough to make me not want to buy it ever again, and I haven't.

I have eaten wild salmon, Net caught & line caught! the line caught fish meat held together well during cooking while the net fish was mushy maybe it was to do with the freezing!:confused:

[Gateholio]

I have eaten wild salmon, Net caught & line caught! the line caught fish meat held together well during cooking while the net fish was mushy maybe it was to do with the freezing!:confused:

I'm talking about RAW, FRESH farmed salmon. The meat was mush. And it wasn't uncommon.:-D

[spreerider]

[quote=Ozone;643282][quote=Spy;643170]

All the people apposing fish farms do not have anything to gain & seem to be pretty passionate.:-|I don't believe any of them would be doing what they are doing if they didn't believe there was a huge problem.


What do anti firearms and anti hunting people have to gain? same thing as anti fish farm people. money, they get huge amounts of money to sponser their research and pay their wages. Anti is an industry like anyother doesnt matter what your against.

Gatehouse maybe you were buying the cheaper stunted fish, a small portion of the fish fail to thrive and end up stunted and swim slowly at the top and get beat up by the other fish and pushed into the corners and dont grow well.
Most of the fish are very nice looking without a scale missing and large fins, a bit fatter than normal fish but thats breeding just like with other livestock.
Some farmed fish mature early and end up as if they had spawned causing their flesh to lose texture and colour.
Using artifical lighting can prevent this but not 100%
I have eatten my share of wild and farmed and found that farmed is not as good as sockeye but its comparable to the lower quality wild and better than most fish from upstream rivers.
I have eatten some of the early matures straight out of the pen and it was soft and mushy but they are maybe 1% of the fish in the pens

[Gateholio]

No these weren't "cheap stunted fish" they were the same price as all the farmed salmon from the seafood distributors.

We certainly encountered far more than 1% of "mushy" fish. More like 5% We were going through about 100 salmon a month and getting 5 mushy ones was not uncommon. We basically just through them in the freezer until the rep came, then he weighed tehm and gave us a credit.

I've never bought or caught a mushy wild salmon.

[Salty]

Good for you Gatehouse. As many of you know i'm spoiled living here and have lots of chances to catch wild salmon - its been the case for quite a while for me. I don't eat farmed fish. It is a vile and anemic creature compared to what fish are supposed to be like. On a nice wild fish Coho for instance (similar to an atlantic salmon I'd say) you need a good sharp knife to start a filet cut along the backbone. With a farmed fish you could almost start it with your finger :-?

[Gateholio]

. With a farmed fish you could almost start it with your finger :-?

And it's creeeeepy.....:-D

You know, I rarely eat intensively farmed, corn fed meat, either. I eat widl meat (of course) and meat that we raise ourselves or get locally. Sure, when I eat out or go to a friends for dinner I'm not as picky, but the majority of the meat and fish I eat isn't raised all packed together in a pen.

[Salty]

Another note on that, the doctor tells me i am on the higher end of normal for cholesterol, no problem just something to be aware of and keep an eye on type of thing. So i did a little research.

Wild game has omega 3 oils (like wild cold water fish that's supposed to be so good for you). So essentially, mass produced beef, pork and chicken can give you cholesterol and cause serious health issues, and wild game can actually attack and reduce it. :wink:

[ruger#1]

Beef is fed pork meal, And chickens are fed Meat Meal. Those are some of the ingredients that go in those two products. Pork, Well pork is garbage to begin with. Fish pellets ground corn, wheat and herring meal. Fish oil is sprayed on. The fish oil and herring meal has a lot of preservatives in it. I will not mention the chemicals in it. But can tell you there is more in it then Cattle feed.

[Ozone]

Farmed salmon has the same Omega 3 as wild salmon

[Browningmirage]

Farmed salmon has the same Omega 3 as wild salmon

but accumulate the other crap in the food chain way more. PCBs, PBDEs, flame ******ents etc.

Gate, I am pretty sure the fin thing comes from erosion, not a lack of growth. Other than that, most famed fish ive ever seen looks like I wouldnt want to touch it. But then again, many people do, and thats why the industry thrives

[835]

WOW no kidding this recieved 109 posts in two days.

I only read the start of this and a couple random comments.
I commercial trolled from 12yrs to 19yrs old and was a guide from 19 until 25. And a sport enthusiest all my life.
There are sooo many ways our stalk is in trouble that eliminating one problem will not fix anything. We need a full management plan from commercial to sport to natives to farming and to logging and urban sprawl.
I am not counting international fishing because that is a whole new bag of worms. Yes things need to be done, but they need to be done by all. By eliminating commercial trolling or farming all you do is impact the person working in that industry and not help the fish to the degree they need help.
Blame in this case needs to be shared by all.

[ruger#1]

We also need to put some of the seals out . They fallow the salmon up past Hope ,And i have seen them all the way up at the north end of Harrison Lake.

[Gateholio]

Gate, I am pretty sure the fin thing comes from erosion, not a lack of growth. Other than that, most famed fish ive ever seen looks like I wouldnt want to touch it. But then again, many people do, and thats why the industry thrives

Whatever it's from- It looks like a mutant:mrgreen:

[835]

We also need to put some of the seals out . They fallow the salmon up past Hope ,And i have seen them all the way up at the north end of Harrison Lake.


They live in Kennady lake Ucluelet from july through to November.
There are a few concerned individuals in that community that "controle" the seal population privatly. Leagal or not. You pick weather it is right or wrong. I know where i sit

[30.06 Hunter]

When farmed salmon first started getting available, all the chefs thought it was great. We could get fresh salmon year round, and we could specify the size fish we wanted so we could cut it into the same size portions. It was pretty fatty, so it wouldn't dry out even if you forgot about it in the oven for a bit.

Eventually we started wondering about what we were serving, since most of the farmed fish never really grew any fins (they were all stunted and looked more like bumps) and quite often we would go to filet a salmon and the fish would basically fall apart into a mushy, jello like substance. The meat was just mush and the bones would just pull out by giving a tug on them, there was no substance to the meat.

When the time came to make a decision regarding which product to use, I went with wild salmon. I assume that the fins dont' develop because they are packed into the pen, and don't swim far, and I have no idea why the meat was such mush on some of them, but it was enough to make me not want to buy it ever again, and I haven't.
Obviously you have very little experience with farmed salmon. It is amazing that the industry has managed to grow into a 600 million dollar a year industry if the product is so bad.
You think it is crap but thousands of others think it is the best. Makes me glad I have never eaten at one of your restaurants, shudder to think what you are serving.
If you take that personal well so be it. I take your continued, nonsensical attacks on farmed salmon personal as well. As for fins if you actually looked at an entire population you would find that fin erosion is less than 1%. Absent of predator you would probably find the same in wild populations, but ill informed opponents often grasp at the most ridiculous reasons to try to bad mouth farmed salmon.
If you believe all the information about salmon farms put out by the antis then you obviously believe that bear hunting has to be banned due to the slaughter that is wiping out the populations. Why? Because it is the same groups using the same psuedo science to try and discredit salmon farms. And why do they do it? Money. Millions of dollars in funds they get for pretending to be the guardians of the environment.
But you all will believe what you want and I should have known better than to try to talk to certain people about this subject especially over the internet where they are a lot braver in their spewing than they would be in person.
I came to this site for the hunting information something that seems severely lacking. Perhaps you all should look at why so few people seem to stick around very long.

[Gateholio]

Obviously you have very little experience with farmed salmon. It is amazing that the industry has managed to grow into a 600 million dollar a year industry if the product is so bad.

My experience comes from ordering farmed salmon for a number of years in 3 different restaurants. (I'd guess the years where about 1989 to about 2002 which is the last time I bought farmed salmon to serve ina restaurant. I've unknowingly ordered it in restaurants since- and was disappointed)

The reason the industry has many customers is the same reason that any intensively raised meat industry has many customers- Because it's cheap compared to good quality, free range meat.


You think it is crap but thousands of others think it is the best. Makes me glad I have never eaten at one of your restaurants, shudder to think what you are serving.

I am sure there are those that think it's the best, just liek there are those that think McDonalds is the best, too. I think that you will find that most of the higher end restaurants have forgone the farmed salmon for wild.

Next you are going to tell me that the factory farmed pale pink chicken with white skin in the grocery store is better than the free range products?:-D


If you take that personal well so be it.

Why would I take the online, uninformed opinion of someone I've never met personally?


I take your continued, nonsensical attacks on farmed salmon personal as well.

Sorry that you take it personal that I think farm salon meat is bland, fatty and often mushy, and I find that the salmon themsleves look mutated.


As for fins if you actually looked at an entire population you would find that fin erosion is less than 1%. Absent of predator you would probably find the same in wild populations, but ill informed opponents often grasp at the most ridiculous reasons to try to bad mouth farmed salmon.

The "fin erosion" on the farmed salmon that I saw for a decade was no 1%, unless salmon farmers are using some strange method to determine what is and isn't a proper fin. Most of them had dorsal fins that looked more like cartilage bumps than regular fins.


I
f you believe all the information about salmon farms put out by the antis then you obviously believe that bear hunting has to be banned due to the slaughter that is wiping out the populations. Why? Because it is the same groups using the same psuedo science to try and discredit salmon farms. And why do they do it? Money. Millions of dollars in funds they get for pretending to be the guardians of the environment.

I'm just commenting on the poor quality of farmed salmon meat.


But you all will believe what you want and I should have known better than to try to talk to certain people about this subject especially over the internet where they are a lot braver in their spewing than they would be in person.
I came to this site for the hunting information something that seems severely lacking. Perhaps you all should look at why so few people seem to stick around very long.

I've told lots of people *in person* that my experiences with farmed salmon have made me not want to eat the product.

[dutchie]

glad to here your the authority on fish farms there Dutchie

Yeah Me too! Thanks for recognizing it too ;)


Not anti fish farm, Just get the farms out of the migration routes. When you realy look at it, Fish farmers have a lot to gain if there isn't any wild fish left.

People that farm fish advocate thier reasons the same way GOABC and BCWF do. They have personal interest.

Farmed fish to me is gross, and the world market is not my market. I live beside a ocean and I fish in it. Maybe in India, or China, central USA, Central Canada, etc... like farmed fish because they have never had the opportunity to taste the difference. BUT if you put the fish side by side, the better tasting fish is a wild one. JUST LIKE ANY WILD MEAT!

I personally like how Gatehouse put it comparing it to McDonald's. I would not eat at McDonald's, so why eat a farmed fish?

I personally like how the BCSFA call the fish "farmed products"... it is like the "Soft Serve" at MdDonalds!

Dutchie

[Ozone]

One thing that bothers me is how some of you choose your facts. Alot of you support Alex Morton and the Suzuki Foundation to help fight fish farms, but when they are saying the grizzly is endangered they are full of crap.

Some say that we are polluting the bottom of the ocean, but how many have seen under a farm, I have. I should imagine your reading a newspaper articale that says it and believing it. Its the same newspaper that a week before you wrote a letter to becouse of the articale they wrote on hunters being baby killers.

It doesnt bother me that some of you dont enjoy farmed salmon, what bothers me is that you dont look at your sources that closely. The people you are donating to today may use those same dollers the shut down your hunting rights tommorow.

[30.06 Hunter]

My experience comes from ordering farmed salmon for a number of years in 3 different restaurants.
My experience comes from 15 years in the industry and several million fish.


The reason the industry has many customers is the same reason that any intensively raised meat industry has many customers- Because it's cheap compared to good quality, free range meat.
Ah yes the good old free range myth. Wonder how the worlds population would get fed if everything was free range. Free range or not people will not buy a bad product.


I am sure there are those that think it's the best, just liek there are those that think McDonalds is the best, too. I think that you will find that most of the higher end restaurants have forgone the farmed salmon for wild.
No actually I think you will find that most high end restaurants favor farmed salmon for its wonderful taste and firm texture. McDonalds uses wild salmon does it not?


Sorry that you take it personal that I think farm salon meat is bland, fatty and often mushy, and I find that the salmon themsleves look mutated.
Anyone who works in an industry that is continually, nonsensically trashed by uninformed people will take it personally. Especially when in the context of the other posts such comments are obviously being used to bolster other anti ranters.


The "fin erosion" on the farmed salmon that I saw for a decade was no 1%, unless salmon farmers are using some strange method to determine what is and isn't a proper fin. Most of them had dorsal fins that looked more like cartilage bumps than regular fins.
Three years of experience with the product is not a very large sample size. As stated above i have more than 15 years and looked at several million fish.

[Gateholio]

My experience comes from 15 years in the industry and several million fish.
Ah yes the good old free range myth. Wonder how the worlds population would get fed if everything was free range. Free range or not people will not buy a bad product.

People won't buy bad product? You must be joking. People buy bad product based on price or convenience all the time.



No actually I think you will find that most high end restaurants favor farmed salmon for its wonderful taste and firm texture. McDonalds uses wild salmon does it not?

Does McDonalds sell salmon?

Many restaurants go out of their way to identify WILD on their menu. FIrm texture liek mush?



Three years of experience with the product is not a very large sample size. As stated above i have more than 15 years and looked at several million fish.

Your math is a bit off....

1989-2002 is 13 years of using farmed fish and finally not being able to justify serving such strange mutants with such poor meat quality. During this period we were going through 25-100 salmon per month, so conservatively about 7000 fish- certainly enough to get a feel for the quality of the product.

Farmed salmon does have a couple of attributes- It's so bland that you can add any marinade to it and it takes it well- like factory chicken breast. Also, it's so fatty that you can abuse it a bit (forget it in an oven for a couple of extra minutes) and it won't dry out. Cooking lean, wild salmon does take a bit of extra attention.

[spreerider]

honnestly i prefer to eat wild salmon, justlike i prefer to eat wild meat, wild mushrooms, free range chicken but there is no way i can afford to feed my family all wild foods so i have to rely on some factory farming of chicken to get eggs and meat at a reasnable price at least for me.
I dont even know where i could buy wild meat other than getting it myself and i am limited to how much i can get per year.
I would also have to rely on factory farmed fish if i was living anywhere but bc to get my salmon.

[Salty]

30-06 hunter, i can understand you being defensive of the ff industry that you work in you guys get attacked a lot by a lot of bs. lol. But try not to confuse those with political agendas with people that, well, just aren't that fond of farmed fish as table fair.

I for instance live right next to fish farm central, the Broughtons and go by them all the time. They piss me off a bit for esthetic reasons but I have no political agenda against them. I have friends and neighbours that work for them directly and as contractors. I think that things are improving in the industry and soon there will be little if anything for anyone to complain about re. negative interaction with farm fish and the environment.

However like I said back there I'm too used to wild fresh fish to enjoy farmed fish. Most of our society though as Gate points out will choose food by price and convenience. There will always be a small percentage of our population that will buy a side of grass fed beef off of a rancher, go hunting, buy free range chickens and catch wild fish. But the lions share will belly up to the Super Store and buy factory produced meat and fish, so I don't think "we" are any danger to your industry, its the tree huggers you need to worry about. And I for one love to dispell their bullshit up here whenever i can :-D

[Gateholio]

Just looked at some of my pricing:

Whole farmed salmon- $9.77 kg

Whole spring salmon (wild) $16.77 kg

If there is any question why salmon farming is a 600 million a year industry, it's right there in dollars and cents.:wink:

[Ozone]

I for instance live right next to fish farm central, the Broughtons and go by them all the time..
:-D

I just looked out the door and waved. I didnt see you so will just asume (yes I know) that you saw me and waved back:mrgreen:

[835]

Sooo.
To change it up a bit what if MOE leased a couple SMALL coastal river systems to farm companies on a u stalk and u feed they go out to the ocean and harvest the returned fish?
Would it work? i know there are a thousand rivers on the coast that knowone can get to unless by boat and even so wont be able to fish that may make a great "natural" farm.
So crazy it just might work.....Too bad PKG isnt here to comment

[Ozone]

The rate of return would be to low I think to make it profitable.

[Browningmirage]

I think perhaps everyone in on arguing this issue is a bit one-sided in their views.

I must admit 30-06 that you have set me straight in my thinking though, I now understand that my tastes are totally misguided and that even though I thought I disliked the flavour of farmed salmon, I actually didnt. Although I thought the meat was a bit too soft, it wasnt, and although I thought that the fins were eroded, clearly my glasses were dirty, and I didnt notice the fins being fully developed on every fish.

Further, your insight has allowed me to rest easy now eating the fish that I thought I didnt like for the aforementioned reasons, as I no longer have to worry about the PCBs, PBDEs, etc that I read about in peer reviewed literature. How misled all those people are. Its a shame really

I will never agree with anyone on 100% of the issues. I agree with David Suzuki in that pollution is bad. I dont agree with him on much of his other stuff. I think everything we do has an impact on the planet, and transplanting species and growing them for commercial purposes in close proximity to native migration routes probably has an impact on the fish. I dont necessarily think its the primary or the only thing causing the declines, but it may be contributing to them. I think the seal hunt is a good thing, but oppose whale hunting. I think our society is too consumer driven to have a chance at reversing our impacts unless we drastically change our ways.

Dont agree with me? Not everyone does. I dont hold it against you. Dont hold it against everyone else if ideas are different.

[835]

probably, but organic farmed coho might fetch a good price.
if you didnt invest too much money in it, just kept the stream clean and open of debre. keep low overhead and high price

[Ozone]

But what about the comercial fleet, native fleet and sports fleet sitting outside my river catching my fish before they have a chance to come back to me?

Oh and just so people know, the farming comunity would never think about doing this in BC, nor would or will the goverment.

[spreerider]

there is a company in tofino with about 9 farms that farm organic spring salmon only but all sales are for offshore.

Coho doesnt farm well neither does sockeye, atlantics farm very well and have been line bred to be better farm fish, they are fatter and shorter, more resistant to higher densities, and parasites etc, just like chickens are superior farm birds to grouse even tho they are similar.

[The Hermit]

What was it KD Lang said about the cattle industry? "Meat Stinks!" Well ahem... Farmed Salmon Stink! LOL I am not a vegetarian but I would simply not eat fish if all that was available was farmed salmon.

One thing we as conservation oriented individuals must admit as patently obvious is that farmed animals and fish that are raised in close proximity to wild populations is NOT a good thing for the health of the wild population. (CWD, Lice) Lets get the fish farms to hell away from the migration routes!!!

Although it took a few generations, the commercial fishery totally decimated the cod stocks on the east coast. You can point the blame at lack of proper government regulation all you want but at the end of the day it was all about greed. Greed of the commercial fishery! Traders/Hunters almost made the buffalo extinct... greed. We all need to take personal responsibility for our actions especially when the writing is clearly on the wall.

As with wildlife allocations we need to put conservation of the wild stocks ahead of ALL other priorities and interests. In the extreme, if part of that means that the farmed fish industry is moved off shore, so be it. If part of that means a few years of ZERO commercial fishing, then so be it. If part of that means ZERO sport fishing, then so be it. If part of that means FN can not use nets in spawning channels then so be it. If part of that is that forest companies are required to pay for complete habitat restoration then so be it. If in part it means that we chuck the Gordo into the fish pellet mash as punishment for the damages the Run of River Hydro Projects are going to exact then sign me up!!!!

[30.06 Hunter]

30-06 hunter, i can understand you being defensive of the ff industry that you work in you guys get attacked a lot by a lot of bs. lol. But try not to confuse those with political agendas with people that, well, just aren't that fond of farmed fish as table fair.

I for instance live right next to fish farm central, the Broughtons and go by them all the time. They piss me off a bit for esthetic reasons but I have no political agenda against them. I have friends and neighbours that work for them directly and as contractors. I think that things are improving in the industry and soon there will be little if anything for anyone to complain about re. negative interaction with farm fish and the environment.

However like I said back there I'm too used to wild fresh fish to enjoy farmed fish. Most of our society though as Gate points out will choose food by price and convenience. There will always be a small percentage of our population that will buy a side of grass fed beef off of a rancher, go hunting, buy free range chickens and catch wild fish. But the lions share will belly up to the Super Store and buy factory produced meat and fish, so I don't think "we" are any danger to your industry, its the tree huggers you need to worry about. And I for one love to dispell their bullshit up here whenever i can :-D
Salty that is the most reasonable and sensible post on this entire thread.

[Moose Guide]

Lets take Springs for an example.If the quota was 10 per day, 5 guys per boat 50 fish caught & sold at ramp X by 50 boats thats 2500 fish per day for local market Im sure supply will meet demand.
The price of fish would go through the roof, which would be really good for them & local business.:-D


x 365= 912,500 fish per year divided by 2.5 million(pop. of greater Van.)=0.365 of a fish per person per year and you haven't provided even 1 fish
for the Island or Interior, and you think you have met the demand???

Hey look kids mommy just cooked the Christmas half a fish:mrgreen:

[870]

spy, i dont know what you do for a living but im sure in some way it harms the enviroment so we should ban your job as well and see how your family would like it...

hahaha.....

[Spy]

What was it KD Lang said about the cattle industry? "Meat Stinks!" Well ahem... Farmed Salmon Stink! LOL I am not a vegetarian but I would simply not eat fish if all that was available was farmed salmon. One thing we as conservation oriented individuals must admit as patently obvious is that farmed animals and fish that are raised in close proximity to wild populations is NOT a good thing for the health of the wild population. (CWD, Lice) Lets get the fish farms to hell away from the migration routes!!!Although it took a few generations, the commercial fishery totally decimated the cod stocks on the east coast. You can point the blame at lack of proper government regulation all you want but at the end of the day it was all about greed. Greed of the commercial fishery! Traders/Hunters almost made the buffalo extinct... greed. We all need to take personal responsibility for our actions especially when the writing is clearly on the wall.As with wildlife allocations we need to put conservation of the wild stocks ahead of ALL other priorities and interests. In the extreme, if part of that means that the farmed fish industry is moved off shore, so be it. If part of that means a few years of ZERO commercial fishing, then so be it. If part of that means ZERO sport fishing, then so be it. If part of that means FN can not use nets in spawning channels then so be it. If part of that is that forest companies are required to pay for complete habitat restoration then so be it. If in part it means that we chuck the Gordo into the fish pellet mash as punishment for the damages the Run of River Hydro Projects are going to exact then sign me up!!!!Good post Bill. Crazy fact is nothing has changed in 3 years.

[Keta1969]

If you want to save the wild stocks ,nobody fishes at all until an assessment has been done at the river mouths and estuaries and escapement is known.It is the only safe way to manage open ocean fish stocks.Mixed stock fisheries by sportsfishermen harm the resource. Everytime I see a picture of another huge spring held up I think of the loss to the gene pool this fish represents.It would be refreshing for a change if before attacking other sectors you would come up with some ideas on how to limit your impact on the resource. Sounds like you want to get paid to go "sportsfishing"

[browningboy]

You guys are too technical, just fish, drink some beers and enjoy the day, worrying about if one farts or how he farts is rediculous! Lol

[BiG Boar]

Really 3 years old this post? I mean, talk about dragging up a dead beaten horse....

JJ. Let's see if we can get to 20 pages.

[Spy]

Really 3 years old this post? I mean, talk about dragging up a dead beaten horse....JJ. Let's see if we can get to 20 pages.Hey if it gets us talking about all the nets in the ocean raping them, then bring it on. Have you got anything to add to the 20 pages ?

[Spy]

Looks like it’s time to refresh this thread.

[Wild one]

Still a go no where thread

[Spy]

Still a go no where thread
I would disagree, If we had of got rid of all the nets years ago we would still be able to fish for Springs! Now they are banning sports fishers and keeping the stupid native nets.

[Wild one]

I would disagree, If we had of got rid of all the nets years ago we would still be able to fish for Springs! Now they are banning sports fishers and keeping the stupid native nets.

Still would not save it removing commercial nets(I am not a fan) that is not going to change the present direction or remove any form of FN harvest. This is not a net vs hook or sport vs commercial issue

Still fighting over who gets scraps and FN’s hold all the cards. Blame those who voted Libs federally and NDP provincially that is what set this in motion

[303savage]

"food or ceremonial"I know a group of native elders that were trying to teach the young ones how to cut and dry fish. The young ones weren't interested, they wanted to just catch and sell the fish and what they didn't sell before they went bad they just threw away.

[Ruts]

This is an old thread but was happy to stumble on it. I tried reading most of the posts that didn’t get defensive or angry but that only left a handful, thanks for starting a conversation on an obvious issue that will effect everyone soon if we don’t take drastic measures. The moratorium on the east coast didn’t happen that long ago!!!! I didn’t know how to answer my 8 year old when he asked why the fella filling up his truck with ice was allowed to net 200 sockeye in the next couple days in the river after we fished our asses off in Rupert with hook and line. Got me thinking the same thing, why don’t we give the nets a brake. It’s not that easy I get it and more is affecting the decline than nets. Much respect to commercial fisherman and their families, maybe a charter boat could be the next best thing? Salmon prices would skyrocket no doubt and should be worth more I think. Thanks for throwing this out there SPY we’ve gotta start thinking about tomorrow

[Spy]

This is an old thread but was happy to stumble on it. I tried reading most of the posts that didn’t get defensive or angry but that only left a handful, thanks for starting a conversation on an obvious issue that will effect everyone soon if we don’t take drastic measures. The moratorium on the east coast didn’t happen that long ago!!!! I didn’t know how to answer my 8 year old when he asked why the fella filling up his truck with ice was allowed to net 200 sockeye in the next couple days in the river after we fished our asses off in Rupert with hook and line. Got me thinking the same thing, why don’t we give the nets a brake. It’s not that easy I get it and more is affecting the decline than nets. Much respect to commercial fisherman and their families, maybe a charter boat could be the next best thing? Salmon prices would skyrocket no doubt and should be worth more I think. Thanks for throwing this out there SPY we’ve gotta start thinking about tomorrow
This thread is as relevant today as was back when I started it.

[.330 Dakota]

IMHO, the whole topic is mute. Will not EVER happen. Even if our NDP dummies tried it, who would listen? Just like how ridiculous the hunting regs are getting. At some point people will ignore all of it and do what they want, and they wont have the manpower to enforce anything. Just like the FN dont follow any protocol now,,it will just apply to everyone.

[mrdoog]

ya know I think Spy might be onto something here.
North America is experiencing a big influx of people coming here who need jobs and housing.
those people could be located in all the costal communities along the entire coasts, both sides of the continent, top to bottom
every day they would go out on a barge and fish with their rod, line and two hooks.
end of the day they would come back in and sell their catch to a government appointed fish monger
everybody wins