My opinion, Shot in poor taste

[safarichris]

This Post is directed towards any Kamloops Indian Band Member associated with and any M.O.E official monitoring this Post. At the 2009 annual F.N.A.W’s convention, two Bighorn Ram permits were being offered for sale by the Band. Footage of said available Rams, was made available for viewing. It showed some magnificent rams being pinned against a rock wall that was obviously being filmed from a helicopter. The Rams were petrified and were seen literally jumping over one other in the rocks, which resulted in one Ram snapping his hind leg off. Please be advised that this footage was not taken lightly. Matter of fact, it was disgustingly unacceptable and went down in very poor taste. This footage had to be obtained and endorsed by one or both parties. I highly recommend that if you are to make another presentation for public viewing, you take the time to incorporate a professional photographer, who will take the time to obtain footage of Rams in their natural surroundings, and further, if you did in fact sell the permits, the actual number taken was three. The chances that that third Ram would survive the winter were very slim. If Indian Bands are going to come into the fold of commercially harvesting Bighorn Sheep, I highly recommend they do it in a responsible fashion, with the authorities involved showing some degree of leadership.

[BlacktailStalker]

No link ?

[KodiakHntr]

How can a Band offer permits for sale? Does the KIB have a guiding territory there?

[Caribou_lou]

Not acceptable if you ask me. I agree with you Chris, Hire a professional Photographer. Better for viewing and for the Sheep.

[yukon john]

How can a Band offer permits for sale? Does the KIB have a guiding territory there?


basiclly , from what I understand they have to give one to LEH for residents and they get to sell one (or two?). And also I dont believe they have a proper guiding area for the band land but one is in the works. I think there is some KIB members on here perhaps they got explain better or correct me if I am wrong

[Jelvis]

No link to the actual vid? Need proof of broken hind leg before believable...otherwise he said she said
Jelly needs proof

[GoatGuy]

basiclly , from what I understand they have to give one to LEH for residents and they get to sell one (or two?). And also I dont believe they have a proper guiding area for the band land but one is in the works. I think there is some KIB members on here perhaps they got explain better or correct me if I am wrong

It's believe it's now two resident (lottery) and one non-resident (auction). It is a non-tenured area but there is an outfitter that operates the hunt. That can happen if the RM signs off on it.

There is no plan for a tenured area 'in the works' that I am aware of.

[huntcoop]

...Footage of said available Rams, was made available for viewing. It showed some magnificent rams being pinned against a rock wall that was obviously being filmed from a helicopter. The Rams were petrified and were seen literally jumping over one other in the rocks, which resulted in one Ram snapping his hind leg off....

What's the point of the video footage? Most hunters know what a ram looks like, no?

Disgusting.

[Deaddog]

The KIB have two resident lottery tags and one that is auctioned off

[guntech]

What's the point of the video footage? Most hunters know what a ram looks like, no?

Disgusting.

I am with Jel on this, without a video link it is just a 'he said' story...

[henderson]

He said, she said if it happens to be true its a pretty disturbing story and by the sounds of it its true. Disturbing and disgustin...should almost be considered poaching, three legged ram at going to last long at all... what a waste!

[Jelvis]

How do we know it's a vid on the KIB rez could be anywhere? Would be the next question? lol.
Hey I know some guys there who work with the wild life department when I see them I'm going to ask them about it anyways..

[Jelvis]

Doooood, You fellas got me again, man you are team workers lol. Phone Doug in Kamloops office if he hasn't retired yet, he will know if it's true or not.
The Jury's out...dooooood
Jel

[Deaddog]

I spoke to some that were at the show as well, they did not see anything wrong with the footage, the footage is being forwarded to me. My experience with the KIB is that they have done a good job of managing the sheep as well as putting money back into sheep, supporting transplants and using funds to study sheep as well. I look forward to viewing the footage. DD

[dutchie]

Safarichris can validate the link but this is the Kluane permit from 2009 video... The majority of the video is great, they are using a spotting scope to get footage of the rams but at 4:16 is from where I do not agree with.

like I said I am not sure if this is the video, but I do not agree with scaring the animals so you can get some "action" shots. I liked this particular video until the sheep get pinned to the mountain side by whatever is taking the pictures. (most likely a helicopter). If you look at most of the pictures after this, the sheeps nostrils are flared and you can see that they are trying to get away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NEtVS2Ljig

Dutchie

PS - this tag in 2008 auctioned off for $315,000:shock:

[dutchie]

I spoke to some that were at the show as well, they did not see anything wrong with the footage, the footage is being forwarded to me. My experience with the KIB is that they have done a good job of managing the sheep as well as putting money back into sheep, supporting transplants and using funds to study sheep as well. I look forward to viewing the footage. DD

I do not think I have seen the exact footage (I may have but I am not sure), but sheep hunters are like deer hunters.

If you are a deer hunter, then you will have a big problem with someone pinning deer into an area so they can not get away, and scaring the sh*t out of them (I know I do)

If you are a sheep hunter, then you will have a big problem with someone pinning sheep onto the side of a mountain so they can not get away, and scaring the sh*t out of them (I have not gone on a sheep hunt yet but next year hopefully, and I do have a problem with the above said actions)

scaring an animal puts alot of stress on them, and if there is a way to avoid putting the stress on the animal, that step should be taken regardless if it is the harder way. (Hiking with a Telephoto lens)

just my opinion

Dutchie

[mark]

Probably the easiest sheep herd in BC too film, and the lazy ass's feel the need for a helicopter!
Doesn't advertise much for their guiding skills does it!

Why the heck doesnt the kamloops herd support a GOS, or at least alot more draws???

[Jelvis]

Those sheep in the vid are dall sheep there are no dall sheep in Kamloops only Cali bighorns so someone needs to study a bit lol..
Those dall sheep are way up north, north almost Alaska you go north the rush is on .. Big Sam.
Jel -- no dalls in Kamloops folks,

[dutchie]

Safarichris can validate the link but this is the Kluane permit from 2009 video... The majority of the video is great, they are using a spotting scope to get footage of the rams but at 4:16 is from where I do not agree with.

like I said I am not sure if this is the video, but I do not agree with scaring the animals so you can get some "action" shots. I liked this particular video until the sheep get pinned to the mountain side by whatever is taking the pictures. (most likely a helicopter)

Jelly -

I did not say that this was the video, but thank you for clearing that up...

BUT if you would have read what I wrote, I said I do not agree with what they have done in that video.

Dutchie

FWIW - Kluane is in the Yukon Territories

[kgriz]

Wow this is all news to me....I didn't realize there were native bands in the province that could have showed enough "proof" of historical use of trophy rams to warrant a strong enough ownership of them now to actually raffle some off???....who knew.

[dutchie]

I do not think I have seen the exact footage

scaring an animal puts alot of stress on them, and if there is a way to avoid putting the stress on the animal, that step should be taken regardless if it is the harder way. (Hiking with a Telephoto lens)

just my opinion

Dutchie

This is from the post right under the one with the video...notice how I say "I don't think I have seen the exact footage."

I said this because neither you nor, or anyone other then the people that were at the booth watching it, know the video that was shown, so the video I posted was a reflection of what I do not agree with.

Dutchie

[Jelvis]

Those cali's in the loops are transplanted ones and have multiplied like mink, they are close to the highway and a tall fence was erected to keep them from crossing into the golf course along the Yellow Head number 5.
From the rez to the west end of Kamloops lake are flocks of sheep...on the north side of the lake especially around Ord road and up the Dew drop area....
jElvis some huge big horned rams too, real solid animals
How come the dall had a broken leg too, that was a coincidence then...
I know Dutchie I understand brah ...

[Blktail]

If the video you describe was that bad, it probably constitutes harassment of wildlife which is against the law. Report it and ask to have them prosecuted.

If it is just in poor taste, oh well. No group of people bigger than 1 can agree on what is good taste, let alone legislate it. It would be tougher to do than legislating common sense.

[TheWalkingSlaughterHouse]

Has any one seen my camera?

[Ltbullken]

here, here!

[Deaddog]

I spent last evening reviewing the actual dvd that was shown by the Kamloops Indian Band at FNAW's . I also spoke to a number of community partners that are involved in this venture. I watched the video presentation several time and went over each helicopter "shot" frame by frame. There is NO ram with a broken leg..PERIOD, when the helicopter video was taken a very respected MOE biologist from the area was on the flight, the rams are not nor do they appear to be pressured and at no time do any sheep "run over cliffs". Only one tag is sold at FNAW's not three, this year there are two RESIDENT tags available on a draw basis. The video has been watched by reps from BCWF, GOABC, WSSBC, MOE, FNAW's and others, ...none of these organizations have voiced any concerns with the footage . I believe in this day and age it is vital to remember who our partners in the hunting community are. The KIB works extremely co-operatively and closely with all organizations, sheep transplanted from their lands have consistently , with the KIB's co-operation been moved to other areas with the long term goal being to produce huntable populations for the rest of us. The KIB have donated proceeds from the FNAW's tag in order to help pay for these transplants, money from the tag has also gone to fund projects on wildlife at Thompson River University, burns have been conducted on their lands to help sheep habitat, all this at the iniatitive of the KIB. The footage will be on display throughout the weekend at the WSSBC's convention March 19-21st, for those doubting what I have stated here, I would invite you to come down and watch it for yourself. If you have any other questions regarding what I observed on the KIB's video feel free to pm me or call me directly at home 250-963-8605 Jim

[Alpine85]

Thanks for spending the time and posting up the truth Jim!

[BCrams]

I'd like to see the video Jim....will have to pop over to view it!!!

[Deaddog]

anytime..same offer goes to anyone else..Jim

[huntcoop]

Safarichris, any comment.

[Blktail]

Thanks for that Deaddog. You just can't believe everything you see on the internet!

[safarichris]

Safarichris, any comment.
I stand by my Post. The year was 2009 FNAWS not 2010 FNAWS.

[Deaddog]

sorry, I guess we will have to agree to disagree, the dvd that I scrutinized was from the 2009 presentation

[Ramshot]

The 2009 and 2010 dvd video presentations are the same!

[huntwriter]

Safarichris can validate the link but this is the Kluane permit from 2009 video... The majority of the video is great, they are using a spotting scope to get footage of the rams but at 4:16 is from where I do not agree with.

like I said I am not sure if this is the video, but I do not agree with scaring the animals so you can get some "action" shots. I liked this particular video until the sheep get pinned to the mountain side by whatever is taking the pictures. (most likely a helicopter). If you look at most of the pictures after this, the sheeps nostrils are flared and you can see that they are trying to get away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NEtVS2Ljig

Dutchie

PS - this tag in 2008 auctioned off for $315,000:shock:

I've reviewed the video you linked to very carefully and have seen no evidence of scared or stressed animals. As a professional animal behaviorist I am educated to detect the slightest moods in animals, even from pictures, by observing body postures, behavioral patterns and facial expressions. There is no evidence whatsoever in the body postures, behavior or expression of the animals that they feel uncomfortable or try to get away in desperation from something they are scared about.

Animals flare their nostrils for two reasons. Either to get more air into their lungs and oxygen to the blood and that occurs when they run just a few steps, or they try to identify a scent. Flaring nostrils are not a reliable sign of a scared or exhausted animal unless it is accompanied with other behaviors or expressions indicating stress, which are all missing in the footage shown.

I am not trying to make excuses for anyone, just stating what I have observed in the video and the stills using my unbiased professional knowledge.

[bighornbob]

I'd like to see the video Jim....will have to pop over to view it!!!

You have to come to kamloops to view the video:-D

BHB

[dana]

Isn't there a lot of booze consumed at these sheep conventions? Maybe Safarichris got the booths mixed up?:mrgreen:

Just curious if any of the KIB HBC members have pics of the 2009 rams killed that they could share with us. I never saw pics from this past season.

[Caribou_lou]

I've reviewed the video you linked to very carefully and have seen no evidence of scared or stressed animals. As a professional animal behaviorist I am educated to detect the slightest moods in animals, even from pictures, by observing body postures, behavioral patterns and facial expressions. There is no evidence whatsoever in the body postures, behavior or expression of the animals that they feel uncomfortable or try to get away in desperation from something they are scared about.

Animals flare their nostrils for two reasons. Either to get more air into their lungs and oxygen to the blood and that occurs when they run just a few steps, or they try to identify a scent. Flaring nostrils are not a reliable sign of a scared or exhausted animal unless it is accompanied with other behaviors or expressions indicating stress, which are all missing in the footage shown.

I am not trying to make excuses for anyone, just stating what I have observed in the video and the stills using my unbiased professional knowledge.

I know this is not what the thread is about, but I just have to say that I don't agree with your unbiased professional knowledge huntwriter. Most of the video was great I thought. But at 5:30 in the film the sheep begin to run, I did not see a need for these shots from the helicopter.

You stated that sheep only flare their nostril when they run, which makes sense since they were being chased by a chopper. I would run too. Then at 5:59 it shows the sheep huddle in a group amounst the cliffs. In my honest opinion, they look very uncomfortable.

I thought the video posted by Dutchie, overall, was a good watch. Displayed some great rams. The spotting scope shots were great. No need for the chopper stuff.

[huntwriter]

I know this is not what the thread is about, but I just have to say that I don't agree with your unbiased professional knowledge huntwriter. Most of the video was great I thought. But at 5:30 in the film the sheep begin to run, I did not see a need for these shots from the helicopter.

You stated that sheep only flare their nostril when they run, which makes sense since they were being chased by a chopper. I would run too. Then at 5:59 it shows the sheep huddle in a group amounst the cliffs. In my honest opinion, they look very uncomfortable.

I thought the video posted by Dutchie, overall, was a good watch. Displayed some great rams. The spotting scope shots were great. No need for the chopper stuff.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I can appreciate that. I just stated what I know based on mt professional background. Even the scene where the rams "huddle" together did not provide any signs of discomfort or even stress. To the laymen animals often can appear "uncomfortable" or in stress. Looks and feelings alone can be very deceiving.

[boxhitch]

I spent last evening reviewing the actual dvd that was shown by the Kamloops Indian Band at FNAW's . I also spoke to a number of community partners that are involved in this venture. I watched the video presentation several time and went over each helicopter "shot" frame by frame. There is NO ram with a broken leg..PERIOD, when the helicopter video was taken a very respected MOE biologist from the area was on the flight, the rams are not nor do they appear to be pressured and at no time do any sheep "run over cliffs". Only one tag is sold at FNAW's not three, this year there are two RESIDENT tags available on a draw basis. The video has been watched by reps from BCWF, GOABC, WSSBC, MOE, FNAW's and others, ...none of these organizations have voiced any concerns with the footage . I believe in this day and age it is vital to remember who our partners in the hunting community are. The KIB works extremely co-operatively and closely with all organizations, sheep transplanted from their lands have consistently , with the KIB's co-operation been moved to other areas with the long term goal being to produce huntable populations for the rest of us. The KIB have donated proceeds from the FNAW's tag in order to help pay for these transplants, money from the tag has also gone to fund projects on wildlife at Thompson River University, burns have been conducted on their lands to help sheep habitat, all this at the iniatitive of the KIB. The footage will be on display throughout the weekend at the WSSBC's convention March 19-21st, for those doubting what I have stated here, I would invite you to come down and watch it for yourself. If you have any other questions regarding what I observed on the KIB's video feel free to pm me or call me directly at home 250-963-8605 JimThanks for clearing that up, Jim
The Net can be a vengeful tool. No need to have a negative slant cast on a good thing that the KIB is doing.

Probably more info than is necessary but here,

The KIB is the facilitator of the sale of the sheep permit.
The sale of the permit comes about from a partnership of the KIB/TIB and the MOE and all stakeholders in the South Thompson Wildlife Stewardship Committee, including the BCWF, WSSoBC, GOABC, Kamloops Fish and Game Club, TRU, .........??etc
Initially was a landowner enfranchisment project involving a private landowner, that in this case happened to be the Harper Ranch, owned by the KIB/TIB
Monies raised goes back into sheep enhancement in the region

The sale of the permit is open to whoever wants to get in on the bidding.
Sold again this year to a Canadian, eh !!

[kgriz]

Wow, there seems to be a lot of concern of these rams being stressed out by a helicopter.......Don't forget why this even happenned...they were being filmed to highlight the great trophies available to be auctionned off and killed. I'm not saying that harrassing or torturing something is good practice, but don't forget that "fair chase" and " animal harrassment" are our terms...not the animals'....I'm pretty sure that I'd be a lot less stressed being chased by something than filled full of holes with a high-powered rifle....now if you want to argue about if it was "illegal" or not as per this reg. or that....different story all together.:-D

[boxhitch]

.........but don't forget that "fair chase" and " animal harrassment" are our terms...not the animals'....
It seems to be human nature to personify animals these days
Curse you, Walt D.

[kgriz]

Don't get the wrong idea if you think I was personifying animals......I kill alot of things and will stand up and say I did....not some fluffy thing like ...
" I didn't care if I harvested an animal or not...it was just the experience" etc.....most of the time I go out it is to kill a big animal and I've come to terms with that.....and unlike most, I find that telling non-hunters in a direct manner such as " I'm taking my son out to kill a deer with me because we enjoy the activity together, the trophy and food" goes a long way as compared to trying to BS them with some flowery crap.
I think that lots of hunters say the words "fair-chase", clean-kill etc enough times that they have fooled themselves into truly buying into the idea that killing something isn't fairly harsh and nasty, especially for a non-hunter....lots of people on here take huge ethical offence at some hunting videos on the net of people laughing etc. during the killing, but I think if they were to see all of their kills on film and how it looks from the outside in, they would be much slower to get high and mighty to others......
A good point to all of this is how now on WildTV and other "free" TV shows kill-shots are common.....whereas 20 years ago, they were only available as almost "black-market" gopher snuff-films! Obviously ( to me anyways ) the killing part is waaay more publically accepted these days and the old standby " I do it only for my heritage and food" statement is viewed as general BS.....I see this on the fishing shows more as well as many have "cook what you catch" components after the shows as opposed to all "catch and release" as days gone by.

[huntwriter]

Don't get the wrong idea if you think I was personifying animals......I kill alot of things and will stand up and say I did....not some fluffy thing like ...
" I didn't care if I harvested an animal or not...it was just the experience" etc.....most of the time I go out it is to kill a big animal and I've come to terms with that.....and unlike most, I find that telling non-hunters in a direct manner such as " I'm taking my son out to kill a deer with me because we enjoy the activity together, the trophy and food" goes a long way as compared to trying to BS them with some flowery crap.
I think that lots of hunters say the words "fair-chase", clean-kill etc enough times that they have fooled themselves into truly buying into the idea that killing something isn't fairly harsh and nasty, especially for a non-hunter....lots of people on here take huge ethical offence at some hunting videos on the net of people laughing etc. during the killing, but I think if they were to see all of their kills on film and how it looks from the outside in, they would be much slower to get high and mighty to others......
A good point to all of this is how now on WildTV and other "free" TV shows kill-shots are common.....whereas 20 years ago, they were only available as almost "black-market" gopher snuff-films! Obviously ( to me anyways ) the killing part is waaay more publically accepted these days and the old standby " I do it only for my heritage and food" statement is viewed as general BS.....I see this on the fishing shows more as well as many have "cook what you catch" components after the shows as opposed to all "catch and release" as days gone by.

Great response I always approached the open and direct way to explain hunting, rather then the apologetic, "it's not about killing" mantra or riding the "ethical" horse to town.

Over the years I have found that, like you said, people can deal with that in a rational manner and appreciate the honesty. On the other hand more times than I care to remember the "it's not about killing" hunters are perceived as hypocrites.

At one time we did a hunting talk show on TV, hunters versus anti hunters, everything went great and we played the antis in the corner, gaining huge favour with the audience. Then a hunter got up and said "hunting is not about killing." The animal rights took the bait and countered. "If it is not about killing why do you take a rifle with you instead of a camera?" Great question!

From there one the show went south fast for us.When people started to shout "hypocrites" I left the studio. There was nothing to do or say for me anymore, a hunter just ruined what we gained by denying a simple fact.

Sorry for the hijack.:-D

[bayou]

Great response I always approached the open and direct way to explain hunting, rather then the apologetic, "it's not about killing" mantra or riding the "ethical" horse to town.

Over the years I have found that, like you said, people can deal with that in a rational manner and appreciate the honesty. On the other hand more times than I care to remember the "it's not about killing" hunters are perceived as hypocrites.

At one time we did a hunting talk show on TV, hunters versus anti hunters, everything went great and we played the antis in the corner, gaining huge favour with the audience. Then a hunter got up and said "hunting is not about killing." The animal rights took the bait and countered. "If it is not about killing why do you take a rifle with you instead of a camera?" Great question!

From there one the show went south fast for us.When people started to shout "hypocrites" I left the studio. There was nothing to do or say for me anymore, a hunter just ruined what we gained by denying a simple fact.

Sorry for the hijack.:-D
Im curious was this hunter part of your group, did he stay and continue the discussion on his views of hunting or did he tuck tail leave and admit defeat like you did.When you had the antis in the corner did they get up and leave or stay.
Also curious what is a professional animal behaviorist and how does one become one.

[BuriedByTheDead]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life

[Gilmore]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life

Huh??:confused:

[huntwriter]

Im curious was this hunter part of your group, did he stay and continue the discussion on his views of hunting or did he tuck tail leave and admit defeat like you did.When you had the antis in the corner did they get up and leave or stay.
Also curious what is a professional animal behaviorist and how does one become one.

Yes the hunter was part of our group that had been invited by the TV station. He was a celebrity hunter too. I am told that after I left he went of the deep end ranting on about hunter ethics, traditions and even brought religion in to it. In other words he got very emotional, which is always a bad thing to do in any discussion. The antis made a meal out of him, they had him exactly where they wanted.

I know the guy and never liked him much. He is one those militant ones that walks around with the finger wagging in the air talking nonstop about ethics and fair chase like it is a religion and the salvation to all problems concerning hunting. He does not like rifle hunters, crossbows, trophy hunters, game calling or treestand hunting. To him that is all unethical and contrary to fair chase. He used to be a widely published writer but even editors got tired of his rants. Shame really because all that aside he is a dam good hunter too.

I played the antis in the corner with hard facts about hunting and about their so called "compassion for animals". With that I archived exactly what I wanted. They got louder and more aggressive as time went on. There is no better way to destroy someones public credibility then to get them loud and aggressive while you remain calm, polite and state facts. Animal rights play the same game and most of the time they succeed, as they did in the case with the other hunter. Never loose your cool in public,

[huntcoop]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life

WTF are you talking about?

[huntwriter]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life

How did you come to that conclusion????

[Darksith]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life

Exactly, if it was a whitey he would have been prosecuted and fined.

[Deaddog]

Bottom line is that the KIB video was shot proffessionaly and ethically.

[killman]

so if a white guy did it itd be ok though right? if there were white people flying around the mountains and 5 of them snapped their legs there wouldnt even be half of the contravercy as there is when its a native band, seriously get a life


LOL! That's awesome. Ya if it was a whitey it would be fine.:lol::lol::lol:

IBTL!!!!!!

[mpotzold]

I am with Jel on this, without a video link it is just a 'he said' story...

Me three!

Need some hard evidence otherwise I consider this rambling as nothing more than meaningless rhetoric trying to incite needless anger at someone or something.

[bayou]

Yes the hunter was part of our group that had been invited by the TV station. He was a celebrity hunter too. I am told that after I left he went of the deep end ranting on about hunter ethics, traditions and even brought religion in to it. In other words he got very emotional, which is always a bad thing to do in any discussion. The antis made a meal out of him, they had him exactly where they wanted.

I know the guy and never liked him much. He is one those militant ones that walks around with the finger wagging in the air talking nonstop about ethics and fair chase like it is a religion and the salvation to all problems concerning hunting. He does not like rifle hunters, crossbows, trophy hunters, game calling or treestand hunting. To him that is all unethical and contrary to fair chase. He used to be a widely published writer but even editors got tired of his rants. Shame really because all that aside he is a dam good hunter too.

I played the antis in the corner with hard facts about hunting and about their so called "compassion for animals". With that I archived exactly what I wanted. They got louder and more aggressive as time went on. There is no better way to destroy someones public credibility then to get them loud and aggressive while you remain calm, polite and state facts. Animal rights play the same game and most of the time they succeed, as they did in the case with the other hunter. Never loose your cool in public,
Kinda looks like they one in your case as well, you just gave up and left.
Your comments also seem to show that hunters have different views and opinions on hunting but they dont stick together.
The whole thing kinda sounds like an episode off of the Jerry Springer show.

Still curious as to what a professional animal behaviorist is and how does one become one.

[ianwuzhere]

Ya, would be poor video- makes me discusted!
I guess there are no limits as what bands can sell. Fish, animal meat, footage? $$$$

[dana]

Sorry but I think some of you have been duped here. I smell a fish and it ain't coming from a tribal member. I think our washed up x-cowboy friend is just stirring the pot. If he was soooo offended by this so-called video, why would he wait over a year to say anything about it. He said this was at the 2009 FNAWS convention. He's been posting here for months now and all of a sudden he brings this up. It is on the verge of slander and IMHO breaks the rules of this site, yet some of you are so busy kissin' ass you took the bait hook line and sinker. Funny how it's fine to blur the line between right and wrong when their is profit to be made. How much ethics did they put in to try to get ol' Nero dead? Oh but that was back in the day when no one had ethics right?

[butcher]

Geez Steve, I guess you don't like his writing?

haven't found any sheds today?

time change got you grumpy?

[bad arrow]

Sorry but I think some of you have been duped here. I smell a fish and it ain't coming from a tribal member. I think our washed up x-cowboy friend is just stirring the pot. If he was soooo offended by this so-called video, why would he wait over a year to say anything about it. He said this was at the 2009 FNAWS convention. He's been posting here for months now and all of a sudden he brings this up. It is on the verge of slander and IMHO breaks the rules of this site, yet some of you are so busy kissin' ass you took the bait hook line and sinker. Funny how it's fine to blur the line between right and wrong when their is profit to be made. How much ethics did they put in to try to get ol' Nero dead? Oh but that was back in the day when no one had ethics right?

HERE HERE,,,,X2

[huntwriter]

Kinda looks like they one in your case as well, you just gave up and left.
Your comments also seem to show that hunters have different views and opinions on hunting but they dont stick together.
The whole thing kinda sounds like an episode off of the Jerry Springer show.

Still curious as to what a professional animal behaviorist is and how does one become one.

I gave up and left because in situations like these there is no way to gain anything back again. Yes such TV shows tend to become like a Jerry Springer show if you do not keep to a script.

Hunters not sticking together is the single biggest problem and the reason why antis are successful. They use our divisions to their vantage. Divide and conquer.

Animal rights groups are like hunters in that they come from many different splinter groups with their own agenda but at the end of the day they put their differences aside and stick together in their fight against us.

I'll will tell you in a PM what an animal behaviorist is and what he does and how to become one.:wink:

[dana]

Geez Steve, I guess you don't like his writing?

haven't found any sheds today?

time change got you grumpy?

I already cleaned out all the sheds. The pickings are a little slim now. :mrgreen:

And yup, never really found his writing too appealing. His latest stirring of the $hit pot was just begging for someone to call him on it. Who better than me eh? :twisted: I wonder if he'll take his toys home now like he did a while ago. I bet he never even saw this video at the FNAWS convention last year. Me thinks he heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone. And of course stirring the pot is a great way to get HBC members interested in him and thus buy his books.

[butcher]

I really hate agreeing with you. First time for everything I guess.

You didn't get them all though.

[dana]

I'm sure there must have been at least one other time we agreed. ;)

As for the sheds, you are right, I left some POS chalkers just for you. :mrgreen:

[Gilmore]

I wonder if he'll take his toys home now like he did a while ago....

I'm sorry to side track this debate, but from you... that statements hysterical!!!!

[1/2 slam]

I spent last evening reviewing the actual dvd that was shown by the Kamloops Indian Band at FNAW's . I also spoke to a number of community partners that are involved in this venture. I watched the video presentation several time and went over each helicopter "shot" frame by frame. There is NO ram with a broken leg..PERIOD, when the helicopter video was taken a very respected MOE biologist from the area was on the flight, the rams are not nor do they appear to be pressured and at no time do any sheep "run over cliffs". Only one tag is sold at FNAW's not three, this year there are two RESIDENT tags available on a draw basis. The video has been watched by reps from BCWF, GOABC, WSSBC, MOE, FNAW's and others, ...none of these organizations have voiced any concerns with the footage . I believe in this day and age it is vital to remember who our partners in the hunting community are. The KIB works extremely co-operatively and closely with all organizations, sheep transplanted from their lands have consistently , with the KIB's co-operation been moved to other areas with the long term goal being to produce huntable populations for the rest of us. The KIB have donated proceeds from the FNAW's tag in order to help pay for these transplants, money from the tag has also gone to fund projects on wildlife at Thompson River University, burns have been conducted on their lands to help sheep habitat, all this at the iniatitive of the KIB. The footage will be on display throughout the weekend at the WSSBC's convention March 19-21st, for those doubting what I have stated here, I would invite you to come down and watch it for yourself. If you have any other questions regarding what I observed on the KIB's video feel free to pm me or call me directly at home 250-963-8605 Jim

Thanks for clearing it up Jim. It's a great initiative by the KIB.