Changes to elk hunt opposed - Nelson Daily News

[huntingfamily]

For your reading pleasure:http://www.nelsondailynews.com/article/20100210/NELSON0101/302109988/-1/NELSON/changes-to-elk-hunt-opposedhf

[The Watcher]

Divide and Conquer!
Sad, really.....look at the sign on the right.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/WKGOS.jpg


Credit to:


http://www.nelsondailynews.com/article/20100210/NELSON0101/302109988/-1/NELSON/changes-to-elk-hunt-opposedhf

[Kody94]

Frankly, with "friends" like that, hunters in this province don't need enemies.

[Jelvis]

...Local hunters, scared of all the hunters coming in for a chance at those huge bull elk in their honey holes ... some of the biggest bulls ever seen ...
If it goes through, someone's getting a record bull this season...
jElvi$ ...

[RiverOtter]

By the looks of those ass hats in the pic, I highly doubt they're even hunters...

If someone walked by with a bong, you'd have a parade....

[Vader]

No... not really scared of other hunters coming to hunt.. it's common knowledge that BC wildlife belongs to all BC'ers.. these are hunters that are concerned that the integrity and quality of this hunt is preserved and not exploited to the extent that it has been elsewhere.. Valid concern methinks.. methodology and message delivery borders on fear mongering and does nothing for the hunter image.
As I have stated before.. it would be a shame to see the quality of the Elk and the hunt degraded by poor management.. We have a chance to do it right and keep it as a quality hunt.. Why would we as hunters want anything but continued potential to harvest a 400 class bull year after year which has been the case in the past.
There is a huge interest in the WK bulls for obvious reasons.. This season will undoubtedly put a lot of hunters into a generally small area, lack of access to crown lands and road closures will ensure this. That's where the conflict will come from and the conflict will mostly be amongst ourselves, the hunters, vying for position on the ridges and in the valley holes. How we handle it is very important as there are many eyes upon this.. mostly anti's.
Ideally I would have liked to have seen an increase in LEH's for '10 and '11 and then the proposed type of season in '12 before proceeding to a full blown GOS.. this would allow for an education of Bulls and hunters.. Bulls getting an education on being called in and hunters for seeing how difficult this area can be to hunt which would influence the long term harvest and herd stability. Seeings how this is unlikely going to happen, the 10 day bow season and the Oct 01 to Oct 20 rifle season would be the next best choice for an opening..
Carefully monitored I believe the WK can sustain a GOS.

[Gunner]

No... not really scared of other hunters coming to hunt.. it's common knowledge that BC wildlife belongs to all BC'ers.. these are hunters that are concerned that the integrity and quality of this hunt is preserved and not exploited to the extent that it has been elsewhere.. Valid concern methinks.. methodology and message delivery borders on fear mongering and does nothing for the hunter image.
As I have stated before.. it would be a shame to see the quality of the Elk and the hunt degraded by poor management.. We have a chance to do it right and keep it as a quality hunt.. Why would we as hunters want anything but continued potential to harvest a 400 class bull year after year which has been the case in the past.
There is a huge interest in the WK bulls for obvious reasons.. This season will undoubtedly put a lot of hunters into a generally small area, lack of access to crown lands and road closures will ensure this. That's where the conflict will come from and the conflict will mostly be amongst ourselves, the hunters, vying for position on the ridges and in the valley holes. How we handle it is very important as there are many eyes upon this.. mostly anti's.
Ideally I would have liked to have seen an increase in LEH's for '10 and '11 and then the proposed type of season in '12 before proceeding to a full blown GOS.. this would allow for an education of Bulls and hunters.. Bulls getting an education on being called in and hunters for seeing how difficult this area can be to hunt which would influence the long term harvest and herd stability. Seeings how this is unlikely going to happen, the 10 day bow season and the Oct 01 to Oct 20 rifle season would be the next best choice for an opening..
Carefully monitored I believe the WK can sustain a GOS.The "small area" you mention stretches from Castlegar to Revelstoke,on both sides of Arrow lake.MOE successfully implemented a 6pt.GOS in a very small area near Christina lake in Region 8-15 with no problems and no detriment to the elk herd.I don't doubt that some WK residents enjoyed hunting near home.As you say alot of the country that will be opened up is difficult to hunt,I don't anticipate a "slaughter",and having hunted parts of the area in question I have no doubts that this opening is sustainable.The large area going to GOS will help soak up the pressure and the season itself is late enough to miss most of the rut. Gunner

[Vader]

Geographically large in area opened up.. known concentrations of extremely big bulls.. not so large.. 8-15 wasn't considered in the same light as holding 400 class bulls.. might be some there but not nearly as heavily reported on as some of the about to be opened areas in region 4. Been a long time since I heard something stated about the 390+ bull I saw, or missed, or shot from 8-15.. regular occurance in some ares of the WK's.

And it's actually from the border to Revelstoke.. added an extra 20 miles..:P

[Everett]

I like to know how many 400 bulls have actualy come out of the WK. My BC record book is a little out of date as it shows no 400+ bulls at all in BC. My B&C book from 1999 shows 3 non typicals and 1 typical from BC not exactly a 400 class bull behind every tree.
In my opinion managed trophy hunting has no place in BC and anyone who thinks a 20 day after the rut 6 point season will be a slaughter either has never hunted elk or hasn't spent much time in the WK. But I suppose all the fools out on the street are from the WK so they have probably never hunted Elk anyways.

[gitnadoix]

How many of these WK hunters who opose this proposed change would also opose other areas of the province, (areas they go to when they do not get a local draw), going to an LEH away from a current GOS. Its all about greed, nothing more nothing less. Its always about more opportunity untill that increase is in your back yard

[Jelvis]

In the Nelson area and so on a lot of hill billy's in there camping too at that time of season, and the new hunters of much increase in hiking back off Pen doriellle and other roads will and could disrupt the local hill billy camps and that would not be good to go through, lol.
It will bring in the elite of hot shot bull elk trophy hunters boys and girls no doubt. Giant bulls will be confronted by world class elk hunters and a record will be broke within the first season of GOS. IF it actually happens in the regulations which many will be looking at in salivating anticipation.
Hi$ Jellne$$

[mcrae]

In the Nelson area and so on a lot of hill billy's in there camping too at that time of season, and the new hunters of much increase in hiking back off Pen doriellle and other roads will and could disrupt the local hill billy camps and that would not be good to go through, lol.
It will bring in the elite of hot shot bull elk trophy hunters boys and girls no doubt. Giant bulls will be confronted by world class elk hunters and a record will be broke within the first season of GOS. IF it actually happens in the regulations which many will be looking at in salivating anticipation.
Hi$ Jellne$$


Hill billys in the Nelson area:confused: I think you mean hippies:-D This is not an area that holds big numbers of hill billies but we do have a stable and growing population of hippies. They migrate in around May and stay until November:-D...

Funny side effect of the elk debate and GOS is that the "hippies" are concerned about all the new hunters coming into the area because its harvest time so there will be more eyes and ears watching:mrgreen:

[Kody94]

I really don't understand any of the concern about "sustainability", or why transitioning, or easing, into the 6pt GOS would in some way improve the sustainability???

There is no possible way to harm that population with a 6pt GOS. 6pt GOS's are a tool for increasing elk populations....a little less conservative than the present LEH, but still a VERY conservative way to manage the area. Biologically, there is no concern. Breeding will still occur, new 6pts will grow each year, and some 6 pts will escape and get old and big.

The only "legitimate" concerns (depending on your point of view) are the change in the quality of the hunt...due to crowding, potential conflict with landowners etc etc (or yadda yadda, or blah blah, depending on your point of view)...and the reduction in the overall number of trophy bulls.

Things that some folks should consider is that the quality of the hunt up until now was exceedingly poor...for the thousands of hunters that applied for decades and never got a draw!!

And, folks should realize that in country like that, there will be a lot of escapement, and some very big bulls taken in the future. They may not be behind every bush like some say is the case now, but they will be there.

This is a HUGE opportunity to increase hunter opportunity for the residents of BC. Its probably the biggest single opportunity that exists in the province...the other initiatives (WT doe GOS comes to mind) are just kind of scratching around compared to this.

It will also distribute elk hunting pressure throughout the interior better, and probably improve the "quality" of elk hunting in other hunter's back yards.

I can understand why some of the local folks feel the way that they do, but they are acting like babies (in that picture above) and are causing damage to the image of hunters and hunting in this province. I don't believe there is any excuse for that kind of behavior.

Just my rambling 2cents on the subject,
4Ster

[Kody94]

How many of these WK hunters who opose this proposed change would also opose other areas of the province, (areas they go to when they do not get a local draw), going to an LEH away from a current GOS. Its all about greed, nothing more nothing less. Its always about more opportunity untill that increase is in your back yard

You are probably right about that. :) Pretty tough to call yourself an elk hunter if you only get to do it once every 20 years or so...so I would bet that most of them do take advantage of the adjacent region's annual "slaughters".

Heck, it seems I bump into more hunters from Trail up the Elk Valley, than I do hunters from anywhere else. ;)

[Up&Out]

The only thing that brings me down is that I have been putting in for these draws for 17 years and never drawn. Having lived in the west kootenays my entire life I have taken 3 nice bulls, no monsters, but I am happy with them. I have seen a lot of nice bulls. I don't know about all these 400 class bulls every one seems to think there are I doubt much more than there are in northern BC. Look at the quality of bulls stretching into the Yukon. BC needs to go to a points system, and take the lotto bs out of it. I know where the bulls are but I don't think I will take a monster, but I'm sure a handful of good bulls will be dropped. If it is true I will be there and if everyone that takes advantage of it is as ethical I hope BC is, it should be a good time. Still haven't decided if I am for or against it, I guess neither. I would like to see an equal opportunity trophy bull season that is foresure.

[6616]

I like to know how many 400 bulls have actualy come out of the WK. My BC record book is a little out of date as it shows no 400+ bulls at all in BC.

Good point Everatt. Latest BC book shows 3 but they're all non-typicals, no 400+ typicals.
Seven typical entries over 375, two of them are from Lytton, 1 from the EK, 4 from the WK.
34 entries over 360, 21 are from the WK, 10 are from the EK.

In the B&C book there is only one BC bull in the top 100 typicals, there are about 10 from Alberta and several from Saskatchewan and Manitoba in the top 100 as well. Appears BC is the worst place in Canada to hunt elk....just kiddin'...the best place in BC to find a 400+ bull is most likely the Ketchika. 400+ typicals in BC are pretty much a wet dream.

[The Watcher]

It'll die right down after a season or three. Dunno what they're so worried about. A slaughter won't happen, cuz they're not standing in fields beside the roads. If what I've heard about hunting Elk in the WK is true, I really don't see the fuss.

[deeks1989]

The only thing that brings me down is that I have been putting in for these draws for 17 years and never drawn. Having lived in the west kootenays my entire life I have taken 3 nice bulls, no monsters, but I am happy with them. I have seen a lot of nice bulls. I don't know about all these 400 class bulls every one seems to think there are I doubt much more than there are in northern BC. Look at the quality of bulls stretching into the Yukon. BC needs to go to a points system, and take the lotto bs out of it. I know where the bulls are but I don't think I will take a monster, but I'm sure a handful of good bulls will be dropped. If it is true I will be there and if everyone that takes advantage of it is as ethical I hope BC is, it should be a good time. Still haven't decided if I am for or against it, I guess neither. I would like to see an equal opportunity trophy bull season that is foresure.


where abouts in the WK?

[mcrae]

It'll die right down after a season or three. Dunno what they're so worried about. A slaughter won't happen, cuz they're not standing in fields beside the roads. If what I've heard about hunting Elk in the WK is true, I really don't see the fuss.

Agreed 4-18 has been open for numerous years and the "slaughter" has not happened there. Same country same elk...

[bushguy]

Aaahhhhh Nelson,the epicenter of protesting in BC.Should be an interesting fall,,,the poor dope growers wont know where to plant this year,,lmao.On a side note,think I'll set up a mobile Beer/ hotdog stand on MT Sentinel.Anyone wanna get first dibs on a franchise???Territories still available,,,Deer Park,Pass Creek,Krestova,Bombi,

[GoatGuy]

It's unfortunate when people with professional designations make comments that are so unbecoming. Given the past it isn't, however, surprising. "It will kill off all the genetics" is one of my favorites.

Same thing echoed in the articles were said from many of the same people about opening 8-15 and lengthening 4-18: "there will be a horse trailer on every corner." Ironically, these are the people hunting these areas and pounding the sh*t out of the roads (that are open :-D).

Regardless of the type of draw system, nobody in BC will ever get the big draws in the WK in their lifetime. The odds are simply too high. These are the kinds of draws that are random draws just like ours in places like alberta - they don't fall under the priority system when the draws are that high.

The biggest bulls in BC have not been coming out of the LEH areas.

The WK might accommodate a couple thousand hunters every year. Wonder if the people who are opposed to this will put their money where their mouth is and opt out of elk hunting for the next couple of years. Rest assured the 10,000+ hunters the EK and Okanagan handle every year will appreciate it - that's where a lot of the folks from the WK go hunting.

[Devilbear]

I wrote a comment to the NDN article and would encourage others to do so, as well.

MANY of the protestors involved are Yankee draftdodgers and I know a lot of them from my time supervising silvicultural crews. We allow this type of lowlife into our country/province and then we do not speak out against their attempts to destroy our heritage.

I was BORN in the WK and I WILL hunt there and any sob who wants to try to stop me should think twice, I am real tired of newcomers telling me what I can/cannot do.

[bayou]

[quote=GoatGuy;631541]It's unfortunate when people with professional designations make comments that are so unbecoming. Given the past it isn't, however, surprising. "It will kill off all the genetics" is one of my favorites.

Same thing echoed in the articles were said from many of the same people about opening 8-15 and lengthening 4-18: "there will be a horse trailer on every corner." Ironically, these are the people hunting these areas and pounding the sh*t out of the roads (that are open :-D).

Regardless of the type of draw system, nobody in BC will ever get the big draws in the WK in their lifetime. The odds are simply too high. These are the kinds of draws that are random draws just like ours in places like alberta - they don't fall under the priority system when the draws are that high.

The biggest bulls in BC have not been coming out of the LEH areas.

The WK might accommodate a couple thousand hunters every year. Wonder if the people who are opposed to this will put their money where their mouth is and opt out of elk hunting for the next couple of years.
Probably about as much as those that complain about LEH but still put in for draws.


Rest assured the 10,000+ hunters the EK and Okanagan handle every year will appreciate it - that's where a lot of the folks from the WK go hunting.

[GoatGuy]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/arrowlakesnews/news/83852007.html
Local hunters oppose MLAs position on open season for elk


Keith Powell - Arrow Lakes News (newsroom@arrowlakesnews.com?subject=Arrow%20Lakes %20News%20-%20Local%20hunters%20oppose%20MLAs%20position%20on %20open%20season%20for%20elk)

Published: February 09, 2010 7:00 AM
Updated: February 09, 2010 9:19 AM
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1 Comment (http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_rockies/arrowlakesnews/news/83852007.html#disqus_thread)

A debate over allowing open season for bull elk has hunters in the area curious if they will be heard.
The proposed legislation would allow the first open season for bull elk in many years. Local hunter Henry Scown says he’s entered the limited draw for the past thirty or so years, and hasn’t received a single tag – but that’s besides the point.
Scown is upset over MLAs in the region going against the legislation based on safety reasons which he thinks are not justified.
“Their concern has nothing to do with wildlife management,” he says. “They’re worried about conflicts with outside hunters on local, private land.”
A letter addressed to the Minister of Environment Barry Penner, sent by Southern Interior MLA and backed by Kootenay West MLA Katrine Conroy, states safety for landowners as the biggest concern.
“I disagree in a sense that, if we open it up to the six-points, you eliminate all the bigger, more veral males from the herd and that’s not a good thing,” says Conroy. She adds it’s “somewhat frightening” how many hunters flock to the Kootenays to hunt, come the season.
But Scown says private property laws are already in place, and those worried about hunting happening on their property already have the necessary means to deal with these issues. “That’s why there is private property law – enforce it,” he says.
Nakusp Rod & Gun Club president Hoss Cann says elk populations in the area have been increasing – and the animals have also been settling in lower mountain levels.
“If there are too many of them, they eat more than their share, sometimes what the deer would eat, and that puts the deer at a disadvantage,” says Cann. And right now, he says elk populations are growing exponentially, especially since they are also stronger than deer and can survive in harsher climates.
Scown says it’d be an idea to try the open season for a couple of years to see what happens. Conroy, however, might be willing to take a more area-specific approach. She says because the local club has a different opinion, it shows the process in which information was gathered and interpreted is faulty.
“Is shows the [Ministry of Environment] haven’t really listened to people,” she says. “Instead of [limiting it] to open season, increase limited entry draws in Nakusp ... but an entire open season has huge repercussions for populations.”
Scown also feels the safety issues raisedby Conroy have little effect on hunters in this area anyway. Cann and Scown agree there isn’t much Crown land to hunt on locally, as the terrain is rough, and there are hundreds of hectares of private land which also must be avoided.
“When you live in Nakusp, you’re here for a reason – the outdoors. It’s what people do here,” says Scown.

[40incher]

The "anti-GOS" crowd are no different than any other protectionist or anti-harvest group. They are false prophets who throw terms like "slaughter" and "safety" around like the little boy that cried wolf. Typically they have selfish motives but try and disguise this with provocative terms.

We have seen it with moose in Region 5 where thousands of LEH's are put out instead of giving residents back their short GOS, on the Coast where the anti's have greased the native's palms to oppose bear hunting, and in the Skeena where steelhead are the icon.

The GOS in the WK is a welcome move away from protectionist policies.

[J_T]

You are probably right about that. :) Pretty tough to call yourself an elk hunter if you only get to do it once every 20 years or so...so I would bet that most of them do take advantage of the adjacent region's annual "slaughters".

Heck, it seems I bump into more hunters from Trail up the Elk Valley, than I do hunters from anywhere else. ;)
In lite of the opposition in the WK, I've made a lot of calls to guys I grew up hunting with there. Many have stopped hunting because there is little "quality" hunting in their West Kootenay area. Each year, less of them migrated to the EK to hunt. They welcome this opportunity to finally hunt in their own backyard.

We know this opposition is being carried by a huge minority few and Filmore is at the heart of it. Let's keep that in mind. I used to respect Morely, but he isn't a hunter and he spoke without knowledge and perspective. While I've respected Guy Woods, I've never agreed with his management philosophy. This change is way over due. My congrats to Garth, Dave and Tara for going the distance.

While I think we can all agree the WK is a huge area, we can also agree where the focal point of the hunt is likely to be. I was talking to Stetsko and he feels hunters wanting to hunt in that 'key' area will be hard pressed to secure access. The WK is a huge place, I'd suggest putting in a bit of effort to find a unique honey hole. Not downtown Goose Creek.

[tangozulu]

Outfitters are laughing their asses off as Resident "hunters" continue to be our own worst enemies

[tangozulu]

Good point Everatt. Latest BC book shows 3 but they're all non-typicals, no 400+ typicals.
Seven typical entries over 375, two of them are from Lytton, 1 from the EK, 4 from the WK.
34 entries over 360, 21 are from the WK, 10 are from the EK.

In the B&C book there is only one BC bull in the top 100 typicals, there are about 10 from Alberta and several from Saskatchewan and Manitoba in the top 100 as well. Appears BC is the worst place in Canada to hunt elk....just kiddin'...the best place in BC to find a 400+ bull is most likely the Ketchika. 400+ typicals in BC are pretty much a wet dream.

Pretty much sums up my view of the situation.
Always wondered why Alberta was so much better for the big typicals.

[6616]

MLA Conroy claims the MOE is not listening to the people (hunters), but is that really true? The opposition to this proposal is from a well organized miniority. The public consultation forum on the MOE web site had 339 respondents most of whom opposed the proposal, but 339 is a very small minority of hunters in the WK, heck, Creston Rod and Gun Club by itself probably has more members then that.

I believe the majority of WK hunters welcome this proposal and the chance to hunt elk near home. It must be very frustrating to see elk every day in the WK but never have a chance to hunt them in a lifetime, a chance to put in for a draw with 100:1 odds is not a hunting opportunity.

I think MLA Conroy has it all wrong, she's likely unwittingly acting "against" the wishes of the majority of her consituent hunters, she's quite possibly being mistled by a very small and very vocal minority, which is a very dangerous position for a politician to take.....!

[Gateholio]

MLA Conroy is frightened by hunters....

Need I say more?:roll:

[Moose Guide]

Why is it that people who say they have a right to hunt Castlegar elk every year (but live elseware) are viewed as responsible and people who live in the area(and are not getting the draws either) who say this is a mistake are viewed as selfish and stupid! Has it occured to some of you that the fear isn't about hunters from other areas filling a tag but that local hunters who know the area very well will take a high toll on the elk?

[Gateholio]

Why is it that people who say they have a right to hunt Castlegar elk every year (but live elseware) are viewed as responsible and people who live in the area(and are not getting the draws either) who say this is a mistake are viewed as selfish and stupid! Has it occured to some of you that the fear isn't about hunters from other areas filling a tag but that local hunters who know the area very well will take a high toll on the elk?

I don't think that is mentioned in any of the news reports.

[dino]

How many of these WK hunters who opose this proposed change would also opose other areas of the province, (areas they go to when they do not get a local draw), going to an LEH away from a current GOS. Its all about greed, nothing more nothing less. Its always about more opportunity untill that increase is in your back yard
you said it best!

[Moose Guide]

I don't think that is mentioned in any of the news reports.

I don't live there but I know if I did I would be more concerned about local hunters taking a heavy toll on elk! I have no stake in this fight, but it seams like there are a lot of outside hunters who feel they have a right to shoot elk in Castlegar and are willing to fight with or insult anyone who is concerned about the elk.(weather their reasons are good or bad)

One side will win, one will lose and hard feelings will abound!
It's to bad people can't express an opinion without all the name
calling and insults. (of which I have also been guilty)

[GoatGuy]

Why is it that people who say they have a right to hunt Castlegar elk every year (but live elseware) are viewed as responsible and people who live in the area(and are not getting the draws either) who say this is a mistake are viewed as selfish and stupid! Has it occured to some of you that the fear isn't about hunters from other areas filling a tag but that local hunters who know the area very well will take a high toll on the elk?

Unfortunately this isn't about conservation or fear of local hunters having a toll on the elk - it never was. On a 6pts or better season that part of it is statistically impossible and even further reduced by access restrictions and the hunting terrain in general.

The folks are well aware of that but the emails about "the slaughter" continue to fly.

Call it what you want but that is neither smart nor selfless.

[Jelvis]

The road from Nelway which runs along the Pend Oreille River to come out on Hwy 22 at the Waneta border crossing into U.S.A., just south of Trail. A walk back a ridge from the road will pay off. There are large bull elk. This is in Mu 4-8.
jElvi$

[gwillim]

As a Nelson resident, and avowed meat hunter, I am looking forward to the change in regs. I could really care less if there are trophy elk to be had around here, or not. That being said, I can understand that the local hunting crowd might be apprehensive about increased traffic around here come hunting season. People might dress it up as a conservation issue, but really it come down to wanting to be able to go hunting in your backyard, without running into many people. Selfish maybe, but self-interest is a pretty normal human trait.

[gwillim]

And to add to Jelvis's note: what you will also find along the Pend d'oreille river is Physocarpus malvaceus (mallow nine-bark), possibly the noisiest, and most annoying species of brush known to man (well maybe after salal). I went down there for a day last season hunting white-tails (which are also numerous around there), and won't be in a hurry to go back!

[bigben]

God help the elk !!!!!!! it s called hunting oppurtunities just look at what is proposed for the east kootenays for elk ........... its an agenda to create revenue and get people of B C to indulge in tourism this is our main ticket to our new economy ...................... if they wanted more hunting oppurtunities I would definitely of suggested to increase the limited entry tags instead of having a free for all .......my fear is that there are many local and east kootenay hunters that are elk savvy and it could have a effect on the overall herd ..........this beein said I hope the end result will be sustainable it would be ashame to destroy what took so long to build in to a world class elk herd ..I also would like to add that I spent a considerable amount of time in the west kootenay harvesting a beauty of a bull with a limited entry tag and there are areas that are going to be hard hit ..........on the flip side there are areas that are closed and there is alot of private land .................... definitely going to be a interesting hunting season in the west kootenay ....... just my two cent worth

[Mountain Hunter]

And to add to Jelvis's note: what you will also find along the Pend d'oreille river is Physocarpus malvaceus (mallow nine-bark), possibly the noisiest, and most annoying species of brush known to man (well maybe after salal). I went down there for a day last season hunting white-tails (which are also numerous around there), and won't be in a hurry to go back!

Thanks for the tip John, so does cedar, alder, willow, et al. It's a tough noisy land out there! Good to buy some quiet outerwear and outsmart those bas$#%ds!!

[Devilbear]

Eaiser SAID than done, my youngest brother and one of our cousins took a B&C bull back in '87, his first and then got an older Nelson businessman and friend of mine, Bernie Allard, a nice bull the next season, but, the Elk are NOT easy to find in the WK, never have been.

In any event, what is important here is the concept of equality of access throughout the province for all BC citizens who hold hunting licences and the GOABC would LOVE to see us squabble and restrictions on our rights be the end result of such bickering.

I was told some 40 years ago, when hunting near Nelson, by Yankee draftdodging foreigners, that I could not hunt in "their" valley and there are LOTS of newcomers in the WK who will attempt to block people like me from pursuing our traditional rights to OUR game. My reaction to such comments from newcomers was and will continue to be a bit "harsh" and rather "direct", as in, FOAD and get out of MY country!

If, you want more game and access to it, BAN non-resident alien hunting in BC and fight the aboriginal ripoff every way you can.

[gwillim]

Thanks for the tip John, so does cedar, alder, willow, et al. It's a tough noisy land out there! Good to buy some quiet outerwear and outsmart those bas$#%ds!!

Actually, I'm not that Gwillim! though if anyone knows the Pend d'oreille inside out it would be John Gwillim. I had several friends over the years who did the ungulate surveys down there with John.

[hunter1947]

I would like to see the regs stay the same as they have been in the past in the serounding West Kootenay areas ,if they the elk management want more elk taken out of these region then allow more LEH tags given out..

[snowhunter]

This particular region is the only place B.C., I have encountered a hostile and confrontrational local "hunter" populations, who do not want "foreigners", "gringos" etc to hunt inside "their" private Republic of Nelson area.

However, as soon as one starts to hunts, few meters from the road, one gets rid of these strange and wierd varmints.

I will bring my video camera along next time I go there, because I believe that being a licensed B.C. hunter, I do have some legal protections from people who want interfere with my legal hunt ?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I would like to see the regs stay the same as they are now in region 8-15 if they the elk management want more elk taken out of this region then allow more LEH tags given out..


8-15 has been a 6 pt GOS starting Sept 25th for a couple of yrs now.
The only current LEH's in Region 8 are for antlerless in 8-14.

SSS

[Darksith]

I think an open season is just a solution to try and fix a broken and disabled LEH system. I would love to see them change the way the system works, giving more tags where populations are healthy, somehow incoreperating a certain number of tags for residents "living (drivers license address)" within certain postal codes or something, while still giving people many opportunities to hunt all over the province. I do see the LEH system as a healthy way to control populations and providing all resident hunters with an enjoyable experience every year, I just think it is broken from poor management by the higher ups that really have no clue whats going on. The cabinet must approve a change, well how many of them are knowledgeable experienced hunters? Not many I think.

[Devilbear]

REAL Nelson-Kootenay people are NOT like that, at all and I ought to know as mine is among the three oldest, original families still living in Nelson. I totally support YOUR RIGHT to hunt around Nelson and suggest that you tell any jerk who tries to ruin your enjoyment of a hunt there to GFY...and then "tune him up" a bit!

I just detest this narrow regionalism and/or provincialism that has damaged Canada so much during our history, I f*****g hate it!

[GoatGuy]

I think an open season is just a solution to try and fix a broken and disabled LEH system. I would love to see them change the way the system works, giving more tags where populations are healthy, somehow incoreperating a certain number of tags for residents "living (drivers license address)" within certain postal codes or something, while still giving people many opportunities to hunt all over the province. I do see the LEH system as a healthy way to control populations and providing all resident hunters with an enjoyable experience every year, I just think it is broken from poor management by the higher ups that really have no clue whats going on. The cabinet must approve a change, well how many of them are knowledgeable experienced hunters? Not many I think.


It's a 6 pts season - you won't hurt the population. It's impossible.
"In my backyard if I live there" concept is selfish, really it is
Unless you at least quadruple or quintuple the number of tags, probably more, you won't have a workable LEH system other than the one you've got now or a points system - there will be no guarantee
By increasing the number of tags 4 or 5 times the 'enjoyable experience' will probably be getting up into the same hunt as a general open season
If some of the self-perceived knowledgeable, experienced hunters are clueless about how a different leh system would work there's no reason why cabinet should
What happened to managing wildlife? This isn't rocket science folks. If the odds are 50:1 you probably won't ever get to go on this hunt regardless of the type of system.

[mcrae]

This particular region is the only place B.C., I have encountered a hostile and confrontrational local "hunter" populations, who do not want "foreigners", "gringos" etc to hunt inside "their" private Republic of Nelson area.

However, as soon as one starts to hunts, few meters from the road, one gets rid of these strange and wierd varmints.

I will bring my video camera along next time I go there, because I believe that being a licensed B.C. hunter, I do have some legal protections from people who want interfere with my legal hunt ?

Its not the Republic of Nelson that is opposing the change it is the Republic of Castlegar:wink:...

The government building is located in Nelson hence the protest in Nelson but it was hunters from Castlegar for the most part that attended. It was a pretty poor turn out as well.

The Nelson and District Rod and Gun Club is on board with the changes. Castlegar is not. The Republic of Nelson has a GOS elk season already in 4-18 has for awhile...

This hate on for hunter in the W.Koots is getting silly. Everyone I know is looking forward to a GOS in the W.Koots. Its a small vocal group that opposes the changes....

Hell I even bought a new APA bow for the archery season.

[GoatGuy]

Its not the Republic of Nelson that is opposing the change it is the Republic of Castlegar:wink:...

The government building is located in Nelson hence the protest in Nelson but it was hunters from Castlegar for the most part that attended. It was a pretty poor turn out as well.

The Nelson and District Rod and Gun Club is on board with the changes. Castlegar is not. The Republic of Nelson has a GOS elk season already in 4-18 has for awhile...

This hate on for hunter in the W.Koots is getting silly. Everyone I know is looking forward to a GOS in the W.Koots. Its a small vocal group that opposes the changes....

Hell I even bought a new APA bow for the archery season.

Very true - thanks for sharing that.

[Vader]

I was asked to sign the petition.. I did not.. They seem to be slightly misinformed as to the actual numbers of elk and I didn't like being portrayed in the paper as an uncontrollable gun toteing redneck willing to compromise safety and ethics.. just to kill an elk..
This will be a very interesting season.. already opened my home to 6 hunters from the East where I have hunted for 40 years... Wifes not happy about having to cook and clean for a bunch of smelly hunters... she'll get over it though. Or she can just move out til it's over.... I would.... payback's a bitch...

[Spitzer]

I'm tired of all this talk about quality WK 400"+ elk hunt going down the drain, it's crap! I think the outfitters have made enough money on OUR elk! :evil:

Besides wildlife management, hunting is about opportunity, good times and putting meat on the table. If I can shoot a 290 5x6pt bull every year, I could care less about one 400 bull.

It's very rare to get a draw in a lifetime, meanwhile the elk are overpopulating these areas and they're either getting eaten by the increasing wolf population or dying of old age. Most hunters that do get the draw shoot 3pt's, 5pt's, or don't hunt at all. Where's all the 400 inchers?

I'll bet 95% that come here to hunt will be dismayed by the steepness and thickness of this country, (where you can't see but 10yards in front of you), and soon leave for easier country to hunt ie.EK. I've seen it.

You'll hunt 5 days and be lucky to see anything.

Most of the bulls will fade off into the steepest, thickest, remote areas and remain untouched, as most already are educated.

I can't wait for the season to start, finally a WK elk GOS!

[bayou]

I guess I havent really been paying enough attention to all this for I assumed there was still gona be an LEH season for sept for those that enjoyed it, but is it now being cut from roughly a 50 day 3point or better season to a 20 day 6 point season that you all dispize so much in the EK.

[Devilbear]

I'm tired of all this talk about quality WK 400"+ elk hunt going down the drain, it's crap! I think the outfitters have made enough money on OUR elk! :evil:

Besides wildlife management, hunting is about opportunity, good times and putting meat on the table. If I can shoot a 290 5x6pt bull every year, I could care less about one 400 bull.

It's very rare to get a draw in a lifetime, meanwhile the elk are overpopulating these areas and they're either getting eaten by the increasing wolf population or dying of old age. Most hunters that do get the draw shoot 3pt's, 5pt's, or don't hunt at all. Where's all the 400 inchers?

I'll bet 95% that come here to hunt will be dismayed by the steepness and thickness of this country, (where you can't see but 10yards in front of you), and soon leave for easier country to hunt ie.EK. I've seen it.

You'll hunt 5 days and be lucky to see anything.

Most of the bulls will fade off into the steepest, thickest, remote areas and remain untouched, as most already are educated.

I can't wait for the season to start, finally a WK elk GOS!

Exactly, excellent post, totally agree and the hunter numbers will even out very soon. However, this will allow guys like me to hunt where we were born and that is very important to me now.

There is NO room or game in the Kootenays for GOs and their foreign clients and it is also time to end foreigners fishing on over-crowded Kootenay Lake and other Kootenay waters.

[bayou]

[quote=Devilbear;633020]Exactly, excellent post, totally agree and the hunter numbers will even out very soon. However, this will allow guys like me to hunt where we were born and that is very important to me now.
You had a LEH draw and wasted didnt you, why is it different now.
There is NO room or game in the Kootenays for GOs and their foreign clients and it is also time to end foreigners fishing on over-crowded Kootenay Lake and other Kootenay waters.

[Devilbear]

I have not wasted anything and YOU are a tool of the GO industry, so, GFY!

[bayou]

I have not wasted anything and YOU are a tool of the GO industry, so, GFY!

Lets here about the hunt then both the good and the bad. Were the elk bugling, did you see lots, have any chances at bulls, meet any other hunters etc etc.

[Devilbear]

I do not interact with those who make false accusations and, I am not a person whom you would find it productive to harass here. I will now return you to "ignore", where I had you as your comments have an obvious agenda and one I prefer to deal with in other venues.

[GoatGuy]

I guess I havent really been paying enough attention to all this for I assumed there was still gona be an LEH season for sept for those that enjoyed it, but is it now being cut from roughly a 50 day 3point or better season to a 20 day 6 point season that you all dispize so much in the EK.


50 day season X never getting drawn

Compared to

20 day season this year and 50 in the future X hunting every year


I see your point. :roll:

[358mag]

Just a thought here
wonder what the comments would be from the hunters on the island if they opened all Vancouver Island GOS on 6 point+ Rossie elk, would love to be able to drive out there and hunt one after all the odds of getting a draw are next to nill lets share these elk to all BC hunters not just LEH and its been stated that you cant hurt the herd by shooting the bigger bulls.
Has BCWF pushed this with the MOE

[mark]

Just a thought here
wonder what the comments would be from the hunters on the island if they opened all Vancouver Island GOS on 6 point+ Rossie elk, would love to be able to drive out there and hunt one after all the odds of getting a draw are next to nill lets share these elk to all BC hunters not just LEH and its been stated that you cant hurt the herd by shooting the bigger bulls.
Has BCWF pushed this with the MOE

That is an excellent point!!!
Why the heck dont we have a 6 point season on the Island as well as the sunshine coast area????

[358mag]

That is an excellent point!!!
Why the heck dont we have a 6 point season on the Island as well as the sunshine coast area????
Opppsss sorry forgot about the sunshine coast area open it all up and make it a 60 day season too !!!

[Gunner]

Opppsss sorry forgot about the sunshine coast area open it all up and make it a 60 day season too !!!Hey,if the Regional Biologists for Region 1 & 2 decided that the population could handle the harvest(as the Region 4 Biologist did),I'd be all for it!Sign me up!If you guys figure that the MOE Biologist in Region 4 doesn't know how to count elk,and you do you'd better take it up with him. Gunner

[GoatGuy]

Good ideas.

Unfortunately at this point we can't even get a shared hunt on VI for elk. Maintaining the hunt the way it is now is difficult.

There are several stakeholder issues on VI.

[Gateholio]

Just a thought here
wonder what the comments would be from the hunters on the island if they opened all Vancouver Island GOS on 6 point+ Rossie elk, would love to be able to drive out there and hunt one after all the odds of getting a draw are next to nill lets share these elk to all BC hunters not just LEH and its been stated that you cant hurt the herd by shooting the bigger bulls.
Has BCWF pushed this with the MOE

If it's sustainable, and not a conservation issue, then it should be done.

[hunter1947]

The island would not handle any kind of an open season for elk ,it would be devastating to have any kind of GOS in region 1 or 2..http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif ..

[Devilbear]

What do you base that on, actual game counts or other criteria?

I think that a carefully managed 1-2 weel GOS for 5Pt to a side and above on V.I., in the central and northerly MUs might work. The greater number of GOS we can get in place, the stronger our position against the antis, GOs and the indians.

I like to think that I have a birthright to hunt on V.I., considering that is where my first ancestor to come to BC settled to start his life here. This entire approach of "we can't allow that" in "our" part of the province REALLY pizzes me off and I support GOS hunting in EVERY region for ALL BC citizens and NO non-residents.

[mark]

The island would not handle any kind of an open season for elk ,it would be devastating to have any kind of GOS in region 1 or 2..http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif ..

Explain your thoughts here Wayne???? :confused:

Even if every single "6 POINT" bull on the Island, was shot every year, (which will never happen), how could it be devastating to the population??? :confused:

You sound like some of the people opposing the WK elk season! :-|

(people have to remember, with a 6 point or better season, the hunt only skims a portion of the mature bulls off the herd each year!
Cows, calves, spikes, forks, 3's, 4's, & 5 points are not hunted, thus hardly affecting herd numbers!)

[tracker]

I sure as hell would like a chance at a rosie in the near future also ,GOS it up .Dates of the season and the length would realy dictate the harvest!!!

Great idea by the way,I am in!!:mrgreen:

[mcrae]

You sound like some of the people opposing the WK elk season! :-|

(people have to remember, with a 6 point or better season, the hunt only skims a portion of the mature bulls off the herd each year!
Cows, calves, spikes, forks, 3's, 4's, & 5 points are not hunted, thus hardly affecting herd numbers!)

This is the point that comes up evertime you do engage someone opposed to the W.Koots GOS. They claim that the 6 points will be "wiped" out and that the "unique" genetics will be destroyed.

This point of view that the herd needs 6 points to breed the cows and maintain the genetics seems really ingrained into the psyche with the older guys. Not a shot at you H1947 or any of our older gents:-D but most of the guys I talk to in the W.Koots that are dead set against an elk season are 50+ years old. Something maybe that was taught previously or is it just local lore?

[358mag]

I sure as hell would like a chance at a rosie in the near future also ,GOS it up .Dates of the season and the length would realy dictate the harvest!!!

Great idea by the way,I am in!!:mrgreen:
Me too and lets change it to a 2 bag limit <one pre region> you still in??

[Devilbear]

This is the point that comes up evertime you do engage someone opposed to the W.Koots GOS. They claim that the 6 points will be "wiped" out and that the "unique" genetics will be destroyed.

This point of view that the herd needs 6 points to breed the cows and maintain the genetics seems really ingrained into the psyche with the older guys. Not a shot at you H1947 or any of our older gents:-D but most of the guys I talk to in the W.Koots that are dead set against an elk season are 50+ years old. Something maybe that was taught previously or is it just local lore?

The problem here arises from the media popularization of precise scientific terms used in ecology and zoology; it seems every "lunchbucket" you talk to these days spouts terms such as "it's good fer the ecology", which is meaningless drivel. So much of the time, the local F&G clubs most active members are persons who work "at the plant", have minimal education and tend to try to sound learned by misusing scientific and technical terms.

They often spew nonsense concerning genetics and habitat issues in order to sound knowledgable and informed and this type of "Nimbyism" is the ideal venue for such behaviour. It impedes the sound scientific management of wildlife, but, hey, "Joe Sixpack Knows, eh".......kinda like when largely illiterate IWA workers used to tell me that pigs and bears were "related" and would get really unpleasant if I dared point out that Ursidae and Swiniforma are NOT related, except as Mammalia....fuggin' big words, gimme another brewski, eh......

The problem here is just ignorance and the GOs do everything they can to enhance that.

[tracker]

Me too and lets change it to a 2 bag limit <one pre region> you still in??


One rosie,one rocky mountain elk ,dam strait ,why not..Still in.:mrgreen:
If I could hunt elk all season I would....

[Fisher-Dude]

Explain your thoughts here Wayne???? :confused:

Even if every single "6 POINT" bull on the Island, was shot every year, (which will never happen), how could it be devastating to the population??? :confused:

You sound like some of the people opposing the WK elk season! :-|

(people have to remember, with a 6 point or better season, the hunt only skims a portion of the mature bulls off the herd each year!
Cows, calves, spikes, forks, 3's, 4's, & 5 points are not hunted, thus hardly affecting herd numbers!)

Good points Mark. Anyone who has hunted elk in a 6 point season also understands "escapement" - just think of how many elk you've called in or bumped, and didn't see the sixth point until they turned and bailed on you. Elk wise up very quickly after an encounter like this (and they are very smart to begin with!), and you'll find that most won't bugle or come in after they have been spooked.

For me, many more 6 points have run away to live than have fallen to my bullet. And that's another big factor as to why it is impossible to "slaughter" or "devastate" the bulls in a 6 point GOS.

[huntingfamily]

Even if every single "6 POINT" bull on the Island, was shot every year, (which will never happen), how could it be devastating to the population??? :confused:

(people have to remember, with a 6 point or better season, the hunt only skims a portion of the mature bulls off the herd each year!
Cows, calves, spikes, forks, 3's, 4's, & 5 points are not hunted, thus hardly affecting herd numbers!)



Unfortunately at this point we can't even get a shared hunt on VI for elk. Maintaining the hunt the way it is now is difficult.

There are several stakeholder issues on VI.

Don't mean to de-rail this thread but as GG has stated, I believe that GOS on 6-points would be difficult on the island. Don't believe for a minute that all ages/sexes of elk aren't hunted from other "stakeholders" over there. This is becoming a serious issue as we speak in the Okanagan.

hf

[Islandeer]

I would buy a tag and giver!! Me and this rock go back a few generations, I think the last bull elk shot by my family was to feed coal miners in Cumberland.:-?

But the crying here would be devestating, likely sink the rock!! :wink:

So bring it on,mainlanders are welcome,though only for the special slingshot only season.

[mark]

Don't mean to de-rail this thread but as GG has stated, I believe that GOS on 6-points would be difficult on the island. Don't believe for a minute that all ages/sexes of elk aren't hunted from other "stakeholders" over there. This is becoming a serious issue as we speak in the Okanagan.

hf

Why would the GOS on the island be difficult????
Ok we know the FN hunts them in all ages and sexes, but the herd is still healthy!
How would a 6 point season be detrimental????
Wern't elk transplanted to the Island at some point in the past???? If so not exactly traditional food anyway!

What "other" stakeholders are there GG???

[GoatGuy]

Why would the GOS on the island be difficult????
Ok we know the FN hunts them in all ages and sexes, but the herd is still healthy!
How would a 6 point season be detrimental????
Wern't elk transplanted to the Island at some point in the past???? If so not exactly traditional food anyway!

What "other" stakeholders are there GG???

From what I've been told FN on VI does not support shared hunts and there have been complaints about too many hunters under the current LEH hunt. I don't sit in on the meetings the information is reliable, but second hand.

The issue probably does not lie within the context of conservation although I really don't know much about roosevelt elk. It is an issue like the one on the central coast - more so political.

'Traditional food' does not apply to FN rights when it comes to food, social and ceremonial.

To my knowledge, Roosevelt are native to VI, not transplanted. VI is in fact really their only real 'stronghold' that remains.

[bearass]

If the elk in the west koots is going to open up for six point or better.Lets open it up province wide. NO MORE LEH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Sounds good to me.

[hunter1947]

For Mark Regarding GOS season for Vancouver Island elk why it would be devastating..

#1 The Island has not got the amount of land that other GOS for elk have got ,you compare the WK or others for land that carries elk on them Vancouver Island has got the less out of all.

#2 Vancouver island has more logged out areas then other regions for the size of it ,the island is around 300 miles long and about 100 miles wide in the widest part.

#3 The amount of land that carries elk is spotty and if there was a GOS for elk on Vancouver Island the areas that do carry numbers of elk would be targeted in other words it would be a slaughter..

#4 Vancouver Island Elk have never had GOS for the last 50 years ,they are not hunted in a GOS only LEH and in these LEH areas there are 2 for the Lowe's for a region on Vancouver Island to 12 for the high given out ,example zone A-1-03 Two LEH permits only ,Zone 110-C 12 LEH permits all said and done it would be easy pickings for elk if there was a GOS on them...

#5 Vancouver island has more logging slashes and less timber then in any other regions that carry elk numbers.

#6 Elk here on Vancouver Island have not been introduced to a GOS for a long time and would stand around as hunters dropped them like a sitting duck in the pound http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

#7 I'm positive that I heard on the Vancouver Island news on night a year ago that the elk biologist said that there are around 7,500 elk on Vancouver Island ,if there was a GOS of any kind even for a short time it would be devastating you would have hunters coming to the island from no mans land to try to get a dream bull of a life time ,in my books Roosevelt's are a trophy animal of a life time why would any hunter not come over to Vancouver Island to hunt them if there was a GOS for them :roll:.

#8 Compare the EK elk population I believe there are 25000 elk in all of region 4 ,Vancouver Island has 7,500 elk ,compare the land in each region ,the only thing that would work if they the elk management give out more LEH draws in surrounding regions that can withhold more draws for Vancouver Island ,thats my opinion :rolleyes:.

[Fisher-Dude]

H47, Region 8 has about 800 - 1000 elk not 7500 like the island, is logged out as much as the island, the elk are in some spots not others just like the island, yet Region 8 supports a 6 point GOS. So, it wouldn't be a conservation concern on the island, based on Region 8's sustainable hunt. :wink:

[Devilbear]

...coming from no mans land..., Oh, really, you mean that hunters from OTHER regions of BC would DARE to hunt in YOUR area? MY, my, I guess that those Kootenay people who object to hunters from V.I. and there are LOTS who do, might feel exactly the same way?

You would not go to THEIR region to hunt Elk, now would you?

This is EXACTLY the attitude that is contributing, along with the ludicrous recognition of a certain group who have some ancestral aboriginal blood as being "First Nations" with special "rights", to the end of hunting here in BC.

Roosevelt Elk are no more a ...trophy animal... than any other hunted species, that is merely a subjective value judgement that has NO validity in scientific wildlife management.

We are going to lose hunting here and it will be our own fault.

[Sitkaspruce]

If we had a GOS for Roosies, the GO's would go NUTS!!!!!

Are they not the reason that we lost the Special Elk draw tag???

Email Kim Brunt, the elk bio in Nanaimo, and ask him about a GOS. He will give you an honest answer.

Cheers

SS

[Fisher-Dude]

The Island has more elk than elk/moose combined in Region 8, by at least double.

Tough titty for the GOs. They are not the determinant of GOS.

[mcrae]

For Mark Regarding GOS season for Vancouver Island elk why it would be devastating..

#1 The Island has not got the amount of land that other GOS for elk have got ,you compare the WK or others for land that carries elk on them Vancouver Island has got the less out of all.

#2 Vancouver island has more logged out areas then other regions for the size of it ,the island is around 300 miles long and about 100 miles wide in the widest part.

#3 The amount of land that carries elk is spotty and if there was a GOS for elk on Vancouver Island the areas that do carry numbers of elk would be targeted in other words it would be a slaughter..

#4 Vancouver Island Elk have never had GOS for the last 50 years ,they are not hunted in a GOS only LEH and in these LEH areas there are 2 for the Lowe's for a region on Vancouver Island to 12 for the high given out ,example zone A-1-03 Two LEH permits only ,Zone 110-C 12 LEH permits all said and done it would be easy pickings for elk if there was a GOS on them...

#5 Vancouver island has more logging slashes and less timber then in any other regions that carry elk numbers.

#6 Elk here on Vancouver Island have not been introduced to a GOS for a long time and would stand around as hunters dropped them like a sitting duck in the pound http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

#7 I'm positive that I heard on the Vancouver Island news on night a year ago that the elk biologist said that there are around 7,500 elk on Vancouver Island ,if there was a GOS of any kind even for a short time it would be devastating you would have hunters coming to the island from no mans land to try to get a dream bull of a life time ,in my books Roosevelt's are a trophy animal of a life time why would any hunter not come over to Vancouver Island to hunt them if there was a GOS for them :roll:.

#8 Compare the EK elk population I believe there are 25000 elk in all of region 4 ,Vancouver Island has 7,500 elk ,compare the land in each region ,the only thing that would work if they the elk management give out more LEH draws in surrounding regions that can withhold more draws for Vancouver Island ,thats my opinion :rolleyes:.

You are repeating the same rhetoric the guys opposed to an elk season in the W.Koots are spreading to any who will listen....

[Devilbear]

There is NO legitimate reason for the very existance of GOs in the Kootenays or on V.I.; these regions should be totally reserved, a with the Okanogan and Lower Mainland for BC citizen's hunting/fishing ONLY.

But, as usual, the sellout traitor, Gordo, has now made it legal for non-Canadians to hold GO licences and we will see MORE foreign domination and "harvest" of OUR resources, while we watch from the sidelines.

I wonder when and if BC people will EVER "wake up" to what is being done to us?

[hoyt]

WK, well for those thinking they will come and "Just" bag a trophy, i feel for them.
It is one thing to get an Elk for the freezer and the wall, but to think the WK is easy!? So many people have a rude awakening ahead!
Even with my horses, the area is tough if you are really going after a trophy bull, they don't just wait on the road side to be shot, never have in this region.
I understand many being worried, but for most, people that do come to have a go at it, they will be frusterated to say the least. The Elk here are big, unique and yes smart, and do know how to avoid an over zealous caller!!
They will continue to breed and all will be fine for the most part in this area, animals have a wonderful defense built in to save their butts once too many people start to enter their domains.
Of all the days i've spent in there on horses, only a couple of times was i able to harvest a bull in the areas i have put in much time, the topography of the area does keep most out....thank god!

[mark]

For Mark Regarding GOS season for Vancouver Island elk why it would be devastating..

#1 The Island has not got the amount of land that other GOS for elk have got ,you compare the WK or others for land that carries elk on them Vancouver Island has got the less out of all.

#2 Vancouver island has more logged out areas then other regions for the size of it ,the island is around 300 miles long and about 100 miles wide in the widest part.

#3 The amount of land that carries elk is spotty and if there was a GOS for elk on Vancouver Island the areas that do carry numbers of elk would be targeted in other words it would be a slaughter..

#4 Vancouver Island Elk have never had GOS for the last 50 years ,they are not hunted in a GOS only LEH and in these LEH areas there are 2 for the Lowe's for a region on Vancouver Island to 12 for the high given out ,example zone A-1-03 Two LEH permits only ,Zone 110-C 12 LEH permits all said and done it would be easy pickings for elk if there was a GOS on them...

#5 Vancouver island has more logging slashes and less timber then in any other regions that carry elk numbers.

#6 Elk here on Vancouver Island have not been introduced to a GOS for a long time and would stand around as hunters dropped them like a sitting duck in the pound http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

#7 I'm positive that I heard on the Vancouver Island news on night a year ago that the elk biologist said that there are around 7,500 elk on Vancouver Island ,if there was a GOS of any kind even for a short time it would be devastating you would have hunters coming to the island from no mans land to try to get a dream bull of a life time ,in my books Roosevelt's are a trophy animal of a life time why would any hunter not come over to Vancouver Island to hunt them if there was a GOS for them :roll:.

#8 Compare the EK elk population I believe there are 25000 elk in all of region 4 ,Vancouver Island has 7,500 elk ,compare the land in each region ,the only thing that would work if they the elk management give out more LEH draws in surrounding regions that can withhold more draws for Vancouver Island ,thats my opinion :rolleyes:.

Wayne, you obviously put a little time into your reply!
But...I have to say that you have really dissapointed me!
You dont have to tell me or anyone how big the Island is, that has nothing to do with the topic!
Every point you made makes absolutely no sense at all!
7500 elk...wow, I had no idea!
That was the only piece of useful info in your post!
So what if 10,000 hunters showed up to hunt them, ONLY 6 points can be harvested!!!!!!!!!!!! How big a slaughter could there be?????

You sound exactly like the WK nimby people! :icon_frow

Like FD said, thats way way way more than we have in the okanagan and we have had a GOS forever, and the herd continues to expand, not be wiped out!
Ive seen and hiked the island bush, some pretty nasty, rough terrain!
Roadhunters might get lucky the first year, but elk wise up very quick and I'd bet by year 2 only the pretty serious locals who know their backyard would be the ones cutting their elk tag every year!

Is there any logical reason why there shouldnt be a GOS for elk on the Island????

[GoatGuy]

Region 1 estimated elk population: 3,500-4,900 stable in some areas, increasing in others

Region 2 estimated elk population: 800-1,200 increasing


Best if we're dealing with something close if we're heading into the weeds on this one. :mrgreen:

[6616]

Is there any logical reason why there shouldnt be a GOS for elk on the Island????

I believe the reason is the same as the reason there is no spike/fork moose season in Region 5, the same as why there will be a shortening of the moose season in the Klappan, the same as why there will be road restrictions placed in the Kwadacha area...!

[eastkoothunter]

The way I look at it, the East Kootenays won't be bombarded as bad this year. Now the West Kootenay guys will know how it feels! Definately going to be a slaughter though.

[hunter1947]

This is my opinion and no one can change it http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif like I said it would be a complete slaughter in a short time span ,as a hunter all my life living on the island its a gut feeling that I know that the GOS would not work out for Roosevelt's on Vancouver Island ,in a long run it would be devastating.

If all hunters don't agree with my opinion then ask the head biologist for the island why he thinks there should not be a GOS he is the expert on this issue not me ,its only what I think and everyone is intilted to his or hers opinion..

If hunters want to hunt elk here on Vancouver Island ask for more LEH authorizations to be given out for regions on the island..

I am in the same boat as all hunters that put in for LEH elk on the island they have the same chance as I do..

I have got picked one time ever sense the elk management introduced elk LEH for the island ,last time I got picked was in 1988 that was 22 years ago.

There are other issues about why we should not have a GOS for Vancouver Island but I won't go there its best to keep it to myself..

With all said this is my thoughts and no one will change my mind http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif..

I don't know why people jump all over other people at times when a person says what he or she thinks its there opinion and there entitled to there opinion..

[Devilbear]

Whether some or even a group of people choose to consider ANY animal "iconic", is not the point here, although that is EXACTLY what the M.L.A. Katrine Conroy and some of those who oppose the GOS in the WK are saying, incorrectly, about the RM Elk there. So, if your subjective opinion of them and the situation concerning them is as valid as you seem to think, then so is theirs and the LEH in the WK should continue.

Your fourth sentence indicates that you misunderstand my comments, however, I find it ironic that you are so adamant about Rosie's, which, btw, are NOT considered an actual species by current taxonomists and yet seem to think that you should be allowed GOS access to the small elk herds of the WK.

...To hell with science..., well, THAT really assists the campaign to prevent the antis from eliminating all hunting here in BC............

So, JB, maybe you should ...listen to yourself... and reconsider your attitude.

[Devilbear]

This is my opinion and no one can change it http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif like I said it would be a complete slaughter in a short time spand ,as a hunter all my life on the island its a gut feeling that I know that the GOS would not work out for Roosevelt's on Vancouver Island in a long run it would be devastating.

If all hunters don't agree with my opinion then ask the head biologist for the island why he thinks there should not be a GOS he is the expert on this issue not me ,its only what I think and everyone is in-tilted to his or hers opinion..

If hunters want to hunt elk here on Vancouver Island ask for more LEH authorizations to be given out for regions on the island.

I am in the same boat as all hunters that put in for LEH elk on the island they have the same chance as I do.

I have got picked one time ever sense the elk management introduced elk LEH for the island ,last time I got picked was in 1988 that was 22 years ago.

With all said this is my thoughts and no one will change my mind http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif..


That is a good post, what I am trying to get at here is the problem with local people in BC tending to be very "nimbyish" concerning hunters, anglers, berrypickers, etc. from other regions coming to "their" area to hunt, fish, pick or whatever. The WK USED to be one of the MOST insular and much too self-absorbed communties in BC and I do not want to see that situation happen again.

I am, generally, opposed to LEH anywhere for several reasons and ESPECIALLY where there is any GO "quota" for foreigners to kill OUR game for THEIR profit. I think that a short GOS on species now on LEH is both "doable" and the appropriate policy and would eliminate ALL foreign hunting in those regions to make this possible.

IF, the "Rosie" population on VI cannot sustain a week of two of GOS, then, perhaps a "preferential points" draw system for BC citizens and NO non-residents might be the best option, however, LEH as currently configured is not acceptable and I question the entire MOE approach here.

[hunter1947]

Would you just listen to yourself for once? The Rosies are a special trophy to many people period. Do not take that for granted period. They are not a subjective value and the hell to your science or your sources. They are what they are a TRUE trophy that is hard to come by and in my readings more prized than the Rocky Mountain Elk. Probably due to the tight management regarding this great species of Elk.

They are LEH hunting to ALL British Columbians (just like you said) and should stay that way IMO.

On another note I will travel this great Province of ours for game as I so choose if it suits me for what ever game I pursue as I am a Canadian (born and raised with many anscestors etc.) as you so eloquently have stated in many of your posts.

Go a head and correct me on my spelling and grammar...............I'm over that jazz from you!


Yes you are correct Johnnybear saying Roosevelt's are special trophy on there own http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif.

Others tell me this that have give there opinion on this thread regarding a GOS for Roosevelt's ,how many RME do we have in all BC then compare the numbers to how many Roosevelt elk we have in BC and where there are Roosevelt's in regions in BC then compare ???.

Have you done your math as of yet ????? ,OK glad you did your math work now thats why the Roosevelt's are a special breed http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif..

[Fisher-Dude]

I believe the reason is the same as the reason there is no spike/fork moose season in Region 5, the same as why there will be a shortening of the moose season in the Klappan, the same as why there will be road restrictions placed in the Kwadacha area...!

When did they become the ones who determined what scientific management would be used on our animals? :mad:

[mcrae]

The way I look at it, the East Kootenays won't be bombarded as bad this year. Now the West Kootenay guys will know how it feels! Definately going to be a slaughter though.

Don't count on it. The W.Koots season doesn't open until the 1st of Oct. Lots of guys I have talked to are still heading into to the E.Koots to hunt elk during Sept. The W.Koots is a fall back plan if the trip to the E.Koots doesn't produce.

[bayou]

[quote=mcrae555;634324]Don't count on it. The W.Koots season doesn't open until the 1st of Oct. Lots of guys I have talked to are still heading into to the E.Koots to hunt elk during Sept. The W.Koots is a fall back plan if the trip to the E.Koots doesn't produce.[/quote

I thought one of the reasons of this season was to even out the pressure or take pressure off of one area I guess that isnt so.

[mcrae]

I thought one of the reasons of this season was to even out the pressure or take pressure off of one area I guess that isnt so.

It would if they coincided but the W.Koots proposal is a later opening and lots of guys want to hunt "prime" rut so Sept is the time for many. I think it will still have the desired effect and spread guys around but not to the extent some people think it will.

Having talked to a few groups of guys that go into the E.Koots every year from the lower mainland they will not be changing spots for the promise of the elk hunting in the W.Koots.

They have the spots in the E.Koots already dialed in so in the opinion of a few fella's I have talked to it makes no sense to try and learn a new area that is a much tougher hunt.

Just my 2 cents on what I have heard so far. IMO the hoopla about the W.Koots hunt is dying down and guys are starting to realize we have allot of great Elk hunting all over BC. It definitely will not hurt to have the W.Koot season open but IMO without it coinciding with the Sept 10 opening for 6 point bulls in the E.Koots it may not have the effect some think it will....

I will send you pics with my elk in the pack I didn't get a grizz draw LOL...

[6616]

When did they become the ones who determined what scientific management would be used on our animals? :mad:

It's got absolutely nothing to do with scientific game management.

[Devilbear]

I am curious, does anyone here have the correct MOE data on the numbers of Elk killed by GO clients in Region 4 over the past decade? Would this be broken down into EK-WK and MU subsets?

Given the intense interest shown here in hunting Elk and the relative ease of access to these herds in the Kootenays for V.I. and LM and OK hunters, it seems to me that we need to KNOW just what is happening there and apply this to our approach to what the seasons should be.

This is also the case on V.I. concerning the "Roosevelti" race of "Cervus Elaphus", a species that is global in habitat and distribution. If, there are NO GO kills THERE, this means that a short GOS might very well be possible and we should advocate for this, to the benefit of all BC hunters.

[huntingfamily]

Region 4 elk total non-resident hunter kills 1999-2008: 1,017

hf

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I am curious, does anyone here have the correct MOE data on the numbers of Elk killed by GO clients in Region 4 over the past decade? Would this be broken down into EK-WK and MU subsets?

Given the intense interest shown here in hunting Elk and the relative ease of access to these herds in the Kootenays for V.I. and LM and OK hunters, it seems to me that we need to KNOW just what is happening there and apply this to our approach to what the seasons should be.

This is also the case on V.I. concerning the "Roosevelti" race of "Cervus Elaphus", a species that is global in habitat and distribution. If, there are NO GO kills THERE, this means that a short GOS might very well be possible and we should advocate for this, to the benefit of all BC hunters.

DB- Everyone should have this map of the GO's territories in BC.

Keep it in your favorites.

http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/cis/psupport/env_maps/goa.html

SSS

[bayou]

It would if they coincided but the W.Koots proposal is a later opening and lots of guys want to hunt "prime" rut so Sept is the time for many. I think it will still have the desired effect and spread guys around but not to the extent some people think it will.

Having talked to a few groups of guys that go into the E.Koots every year from the lower mainland they will not be changing spots for the promise of the elk hunting in the W.Koots.

They have the spots in the E.Koots already dialed in so in the opinion of a few fella's I have talked to it makes no sense to try and learn a new area that is a much tougher hunt.

Just my 2 cents on what I have heard so far. IMO the hoopla about the W.Koots hunt is dying down and guys are starting to realize we have allot of great Elk hunting all over BC. It definitely will not hurt to have the W.Koot season open but IMO without it coinciding with the Sept 10 opening for 6 point bulls in the E.Koots it may not have the effect some think it will....

I will send you pics with my elk in the pack I didn't get a grizz draw LOL...
Ya I kinda figured statments like the WK hunt would help take pressure of other areas were just false staments made to help sway things.
Looking forward to picks of the elk.

[GoatGuy]

Ya I kinda figured statments like the WK hunt would help take pressure of other areas were just false staments made to help sway things.
Looking forward to picks of the elk.

The original MoE proposal was for the same time period as the EK. It changed only after the witch hunt started.

[bayou]

50 day season X never getting drawn

Compared to

20 day season this year and 50 in the future X hunting every year


I see your point. :roll:

No dont think you have, you have taken 30 days and a chance of a hunt that some people really liked the opportunity at. Not everyone wants to hunt the way or what you you think they should.

[Gateholio]

No dont think you have, you have taken 30 days and a chance of a hunt that some people really liked the opportunity at. Not everyone wants to hunt the way or what you you think they should.

I think you woudl find most people would prefer to go hunting, rather than the alternative, which is maybe getting a chance to go hunting, once in their lifetime.

[bayou]

I think you woudl find most people would prefer to go hunting, rather than the alternative, which is maybe getting a chance to go hunting, once in their lifetime.
There allways was places to go hunting.

[GoatGuy]

No dont think you have, you have taken 30 days and a chance of a hunt that some people really liked the opportunity at. Not everyone wants to hunt the way or what you you think they should.

You don't actually have that 'opportunity'. The average resident hunter who puts in for this draw for their entire life will never get it, neither will their hunting buddy who also puts in for it.

That is simply the way it works.

That means that regardless of the type of hunt YOU want YOU won't get to go hunting.

How do you want to hunt?

[Fisher-Dude]

There allways was places to go hunting.

Sure, lots of places, as long as they aren't around your place.

[bayou]

You don't actually have that 'opportunity'. The average resident hunter who puts in for this draw for their entire life will never get it, neither will their hunting buddy who also puts in for it.

That is simply the way it works.

That means that regardless of the type of hunt YOU want YOU won't get to go hunting.
And the way you have it now no one will get to experience it the way it was.
How do you want to hunt?

just like I do now hunt open areas if I want put in for LEHs for the chance to hunt certain animals or areas if I want, drive up a road or hike up a road closure many different ways.

[bayou]

Sure, lots of places, as long as they aren't around your place.
Yes theres laws about hunting in town limits and on private property. You should check up on that before heading to the WK.

[todbartell]

just like I do now hunt open areas if I want put in for LEHs for the chance to hunt certain animals or areas if I want, drive up a road or hike up a road closure many different ways.

I want to hunt the WK for elk every fall. That's how I want to hunt. I want to experience the country that Ive only heard stories about. This year might be my first chance, a chance I may never of gotten under the LEH system. That's how I want to hunt!

[GoatGuy]

And the way you have it now no one will get to experience it the way it was.

Obviously not. Nobody could get the draw before, now there may be an open season and no draw. So you get to hunt, whereas you didn't get to hunt before.

They call those National Parks, get out of your house, start heading east, eventually you'll run into them. If you want to go follow elk around Jasper is nice in August. You can golf at the same time and make it a 'combo hunt'.


just like I do now hunt open areas if I want put in for LEHs for the chance to hunt certain animals or areas if I want, drive up a road or hike up a road closure many different ways.

So how and why would YOU get to pick which areas are on LEH and which ones aren't? Get a map out and throwing darts at it? "This looks like a good spot for an LEH hunt, I can smell it."

How do you evaluate that? What kind of logic do you use?

The reason most of the areas you put in for LEH are LEH is because the harvest would not be sustainable on a general open season and that is how it should be - it's a population conservation tool. There is nothing in the LEH policy that says: "these areas should be on LEH because Dale says" and for good reason.

Decisions should be guided by science and logic; "because" just ain't good enough.

[bayou]

Obviously not. Nobody could get the draw before, now there may be an open season and no draw. So you get to hunt, whereas you didn't get to hunt before.
Thought your buddys girlfriend got a draw you seemed all happy about that
They call those National Parks, get out of your house, start heading east, eventually you'll run into them. If you want to go follow elk around Jasper is nice in August. You can golf at the same time and make it a 'combo hunt'.
I dont thinkyou can hunt in jasper and a hunter host would be needed.


So how and why would YOU get to pick which areas are on LEH and which ones aren't? Get a map out and throwing darts at it? "This looks like a good spot for an LEH hunt, I can smell it."
Dont have a clue what your taking about here. never said I would get to pick which areas are on LEH.
How do you evaluate that? What kind of logic do you use?

The reason most of the areas you put in for LEH are LEH is because the harvest would not be sustainable on a general open season and that is how it should be - it's a population conservation tool. There is nothing in the LEH policy that says: "these areas should be on LEH because Dale says" and for good reason.
Again dont no what your talking about
Decisions should be guided by science and logic; "because" just ain't good enough.
I see you have to go back to your groups ways, its quit said really, some day you may come to realize its not all about you. That may come with age.

[bayou]

I want to hunt the WK for elk every fall. That's how I want to hunt. I want to experience the country that Ive only heard stories about. This year might be my first chance, a chance I may never of gotten under the LEH system. That's how I want to hunt!
You could of went and experienced the country any time it was always there. Now if you want to go and experience the hunt that you may have heard about before you cant for that one is being taken away.

[bighornbob]

You could of went and experienced the country any time it was always there. Now if you want to go and experience the hunt that you may have heard about before you cant for that one is being taken away.

Explain to me how its being taken away. I have applied for 15 years, never been drawn, never got to hunt elk there. It opens up and guess what, I get to go hunting.

Like I said care to explain it to me.

BHB

[Gateholio]

There allways was places to go hunting.

Except the places with high odds LEH was not one of them. Now people will be able to hunt in those areas. As I said- I think you woudl find most people would prefer to go hunting, rather than the alternative, which is maybe getting a chance to go hunting, once in their lifetime.

I assume there are also some people would prefer to not hunt and just keep applying for LEH, with little chance for success.

[GoatGuy]

I see you have to go back to your groups ways, its quit said really, some day you may come to realize its not all about you. That may come with age.

You seem to believe this should remain on LEH which is fair. So, the question, as has been asked by others, is why do you think this should be on LEH?

What kind of research do you put into it?

What kind of logic do you use?

How do you measure it?

Any part of that would shape at least part of an organized thought process or an argument. Feel free to share your thoughts; backing your thoughts up with fact is encouraged.

So far as age is concerned, you've run through a handful of biologists over the years who have tried to explain the fundamentals, you never tried to understand it and still don't get it. It's great to argue but you need to argue with fact - random comments about managing animals on an MU level that have a home range of 35km2 and that in fill through sink hole dynamics just don't cut 'er. It makes very little sense really. With age comes experience, but without understanding experience is meaningless.

[Devilbear]

It has been my experience that most of the few who argue in favour of LEH retention and application are involved in some manner with the GO industry and have an agenda. When, such posters have a total lack of biological knowledge and cannot express their opinions in simple, basic English as well as frequently emply false personal arracks in their "reasoning", welllllll, I think that this agenda becomes all too obvious.

There are huntable numbers of Elk in the West Kootenays, I was born there of pioneer stock and quite simply, I have a RIGHT to hunt there and nobody is going to tell me that I don't. As the Olympics are now over, it is TIME to really begin the campaign to shut down all non-resident hunting in the Kootenays as the 110 Elk, on average, shot every year by foreigners there is TOO MANY and WE need them for BC hunters.

I suggest that every BC hunter here write to the WK and EK newspapers and advocate a "resident's only" policy for hunting in Region 4, I suspect that this will receive majority support and could well become law within a few years.

[Caribou_lou]

It has been my experience that most of the few who argue in favour of LEH retention and application are involved in some manner with the GO industry .


X2 devilbear. I can't figure out why it is going to be a 6 point slaughter, they must be running all over the place. If thats the case, this season should have been opened up many years ago.

[eaglesj]

6 point and better hunting can eventually knock out a lot of trophy genetics from populations. I have heard a lot of people in the peace region talk about the number of heards they see that have 5 point elk and smaller in them year after year. Antler size is mostly genetic, and not dependant on age like horns are. If 6 point keep getting shot, there is a chance that fewer 6 points will be found in many years to come. However, this should take a long time, and like many people said, you will always find those smart old guys that manage to sneak through the hunting season and pass on their genetics to both male and female (not huntable) offspring.

On another point, only shooting 6 point makes it more difficult to kill elk because you can not shoot the first one you see. We have had this in the peace region as long as I can remember, and now the population here has grown large enough to open up doe seasons, 3 pt seasons, and LEH seasons later on. So apparently, the elk population is not at threatening low levels.

I like the idea of opening up an open season south of here, because it seems to me from this forum that a lot of people come up here to hunt elk. More area and elk for us locals.

There are pro's and con's to any environmental issue. We need to look at both sides and consider what is the best way to work each situation independantly.

[RiverOtter]

What I find quite funny from the "Slaughter" crowd, is that in one thread they will go off about how smart elk are and how they hole up in the most god awfull country when pressured by hunters. Then, when a 6pt GOS thread comes along, all of a sudden elk are as dumb as a 2pt mulie and are gonna get annihilated in a 2 week "post rut" hunt.

Honestly, I can't wait till Goat Guy posts up the harvest numbers after next fall, and I hope he follows it up with a great big "Tolja So"......

[BCrams]

What I find quite funny from the "Slaughter" crowd, is that in one thread they will go off about how smart elk are and how they hole up in the most god awfull country when pressured by hunters. Then, when a 6pt GOS thread comes along, all of a sudden elk are as dumb as a 2pt mulie and are gonna get annihilated in a 2 week "post rut" hunt.

Honestly, I can't wait till Goat Guy posts up the harvest numbers after next fall, and I hope he follows it up with a great big "Tolja So"......

The big 'Tolja So' pretty much was demonstrated already with the GOS opening of the Okanogan elk.

[4blade]

judging from the 15 dead 5points we found while hunting the EK i hope every one learns how to count to 6 and not relying on the top fork

[hunter1947]

judging from the 15 dead 5points we found while hunting the EK i hope every one learns how to count to 6 and not relying on the top fork


4 blade well said and if a hunter does count 3 or more times when counting 6 on one side to make a positive count there will be more elk that will live to see the next year :wink:..

[hunter1947]

What I find quite funny from the "Slaughter" crowd, is that in one thread they will go off about how smart elk are and how they hole up in the most god awfull country when pressured by hunters. Then, when a 6pt GOS thread comes along, all of a sudden elk are as dumb as a 2pt mulie and are gonna get annihilated in a 2 week "post rut" hunt.

Honestly, I can't wait till Goat Guy posts up the harvest numbers after next fall, and I hope he follows it up with a great big "Tolja So"......


I have found that Bulls with cows or with out cows are in open slashes even when there is hi volume pressher on them during Sept and Oct hunts..

[bayou]

Explain to me how its being taken away. I have applied for 15 years, never been drawn, never got to hunt elk there. It opens up and guess what, I get to go hunting.

Like I said care to explain it to me.

BHB

Sure I will try to explain, take a look at the hunt dates they are now different, look at the antler restrictions they are now different, look at the number of leh authorizations versus the possible amount of people now different. So yes the hunt that was there before has been taken away.
I have no problem with some LEH hunts. I have applied for a lot longer then 15 years and had no problem still applying for that draw. If you read my other post I had thought there would have still been a sept LEH as well for those that wanted that but it has been taken away.

[Fisher-Dude]

judging from the 15 dead 5points we found while hunting the EK i hope every one learns how to count to 6 and not relying on the top fork

15 in one season eh? Funny, my brother lives in the EK and is in the bush every chance he gets (and is now retired :wink: ), and I hunt there for 2 weeks every year. I haven't found any in the 12 years the 6 point season has been in place, and we've just found a couple of SIX points that were shot but lost. You must be a great hunter that covers hundreds of miles. I'm impressed. :wink:

[Fisher-Dude]

Sure I will try to explain, take a look at the hunt dates they are now different, look at the antler restrictions they are now different, look at the number of leh authorizations versus the possible amount of people now different. So yes the hunt that was there before has been taken away.
I have no problem with some LEH hunts. I have applied for a lot longer then 15 years and had no problem still applying for that draw. If you read my other post I had thought there would have still been a sept LEH as well for those that wanted that but it has been taken away.

Go put in for a doe draw. Quality hunt because few people participate. Better odds too, and just imagine how many people will be busy slaughtering 6 point elk in Krestova while you hike 12 miles back for your doe with no competition. After all, who's gonna shoot does when they can slaughter 6 point trophy elk at the side of the main road? You can't get better quality than that LEH doe hunt. It's a win-win for quality hunters like you.

[J_T]

15 in one season eh? Funny, my brother lives in the EK and is in the bush every chance he gets (and is now retired :wink: ), and I hunt there for 2 weeks every year. I haven't found any in the 12 years the 6 point season has been in place, and we've just found a couple of SIX points that were shot but lost. You must be a great hunter that covers hundreds of miles. I'm impressed. :wink: Well, I haven't found 15, but I have found a few dead fives in areas I hunt. Just cause you personally don't find them or someone you know doesn't find them, doesn't mean they might not be there. Hunters make mistakes. What amazes me, is when a hunter does make a mistake, how quickly other hunters call them poachers. Mistakes happen. Everyone owns their part in reducing and eliminating mistakes.

[Devilbear]

I have found that Bulls with cows or with out cows are in open slashes even when there is hi volume pressher on them during Sept and Oct hunts..

In all of my years working in the bush in the Kootenays and I mean living for 3 months alone in the bush, not "camping" for a couple weeks in a roadside pullout in a camper or trailer, I have very seldom seen Elk in open slashes after the beginning of Sept., during legal shooting hours. I HAVE seen them on private property which has been "no hunting" for decades and they do go into slash to feed at night, but, they certainly seem to "hole up" in the timber during the day.

I KNOW exactly where the Elk are in the WK and have every intention of hunting there this coming season; I also want a short GOS on V.I. so I can get a big "Rosie" which I would like to hunt. WHEN, the REAL ...slaughter... of Elk in any region of BC, that by mostly Yankee hunters paying GOs is stopped, THEN, I will consider LEH as being possibly a valid management technique.

As things now stand, LEH is nothing but a "con game" to sucker we BC citizens who OWN the game in to accepting the GO's being allowed to sell so much of it to Yankees and other foreigners. Time to start writing Campbell demanding an end to this travesty!

[bayou]

Go put in for a doe draw. Quality hunt because few people participate. Better odds too, and just imagine how many people will be busy slaughtering 6 point elk in Krestova while you hike 12 miles back for your doe with no competition. After all, who's gonna shoot does when they can slaughter 6 point trophy elk at the side of the main road? You can't get better quality than that LEH doe hunt. It's a win-win for quality hunters like you.
I think some were you mentioned you had a doe tag foe the EK last season, how was the quality hunt you talk about.

[Kody94]

15 in one season eh? Funny, my brother lives in the EK and is in the bush every chance he gets (and is now retired :wink: ), and I hunt there for 2 weeks every year. I haven't found any in the 12 years the 6 point season has been in place, and we've just found a couple of SIX points that were shot but lost. You must be a great hunter that covers hundreds of miles. I'm impressed. :wink:


Well, I haven't found 15, but I have found a few dead fives in areas I hunt. Just cause you personally don't find them or someone you know doesn't find them, doesn't mean they might not be there. Hunters make mistakes. What amazes me, is when a hunter does make a mistake, how quickly other hunters call them poachers. Mistakes happen. Everyone owns their part in reducing and eliminating mistakes.

I can't possibly quantify what the 5-pt "harvest" is, but we (myself and a crew of layout guys/surveyors that worked for me) have found dozens of dead 5-pts in the Elk Valley over the years. Some of those were of undetermined cause of death (likely cougar kills) but many were obviously killed by mistake and left.

I don't think its a significant problem (those 'dozens' were found over a dozen years), and we cover A LOT of country out there. (NB: It is part of the reason that I will argue when rifle hunters blame bowhunters for a high wounding loss though -- pot calling the kettle black syndrome).

Very few of them would have been visible "on the quad" ;), so its not surprising F-D didn't find them. :p

And to F-D's point, our crews spending on the order of 1500 man-days in the field each year, would probably only find on average 3 or 4 per year. I'd be pretty suspect about a hunting camp finding 15 in one year, or even 10 years.

[6616]

I have found that Bulls with cows or with out cows are in open slashes even when there is hi volume pressher on them during Sept and Oct hunts..

In my experience hunting elk I would say you can find bulls in open slashes near roads fairly easily the first few days of the season and after that it gets much more difficult.

I don't deny that one can see bull elk in open slashes, but how many don't you see because they're in cover, what's the ratio, I'm thinking 10 or 20 to 1 maybe? What percentage of bulls will frequent open slashes once the gong show is on, 5% maybe 10%? And of course those brave bulls are culled pretty darn quickly.

[GoatGuy]

Looks like we're on to the next hijack. You will have illegal animals harvested in any hunting season. 3 pts season, 2 pts season, 4 pts season, 6 pt season, full curl, 3/4 curl, 7/8 curl, male only, antlerless, LEH, you name it. You will have people who shoot grizzly bears thinking their black bears, ewes thinking their does and on and on and on. That's education not a reason to cancel a season.

Who cares if elk hang out in a cutblock? It's a 6 pts season. It's fail-safe. They could be hanging out in the bald ass prairie with 100,000 hunters and it would still work.

[Kody94]

Looks like we're on to the next hijack. You will have illegal animals harvested in any hunting season. 3 pts season, 2 pts season, 4 pts season, 6 pt season, full curl, 3/4 curl, 7/8 curl, male only, antlerless, LEH, you name it. You will have people who shoot grizzly bears thinking their black bears, ewes thinking their does and on and on and on. That's education not a reason to cancel a season.

Who cares if elk hang out in a cutblock? It's a 6 pts season. It's fail-safe. They could be hanging out in the bald ass prairie with 100,000 hunters and it would still work.

Agreed, on both counts.

[6616]

I had thought there would have still been a sept LEH as well for those that wanted that but it has been taken away

That would be very easy to do and I think if there were enough hunters asking for it, it would be easy to talk MOE into such an early LEH season. The early LEH hunters would get first crack at the biggest bulls, and they could hunt without the disturbance of large numbers of hunters around.

Like GG says, if both seasons were limited to 6 pointers there would certainly not be any conservation concern. The thing is would anyone but a mere handful of hunters bother applying for the LEH with a GOS coming up the following month?

Also if one wants to hunt early without disturbance and get first crack at the big bulls, there's always the bow season to utilize.

[bayou]

[quote=GoatGuy;635588]Looks like we're on to the next hijack. You will have illegal animals harvested in any hunting season. 3 pts season, 2 pts season, 4 pts season, 6 pt season, full curl, 3/4 curl, 7/8 curl, male only, antlerless, LEH, you name it. You will have people who shoot grizzly bears thinking their black bears, ewes thinking their does and on and on and on. That's education not a reason to cancel a season.
Not quit sure whatyou mean by this. Its a lack of education so they shoot the wrong animal or thats how people get educated by just shooting then checking to see what it is.
Who cares if elk hang out in a cutblock? It's a 6 pts season. It's fail-safe. They could be hanging out in the bald ass prairie with 100,000 hunters and it would still work.

[bayou]

[quote=6616;635619]That would be very easy to do and I think if there were enough hunters asking for it, it would be easy to talk MOE into such an early LEH season. The early LEH hunters would get first crack at the biggest bulls, and they could hunt without the disturbance of large numbers of hunters around.

Like GG says, if both seasons were limited to 6 pointers there would certainly not be any conservation concern. The thing is would anyone but a mere handful of hunters bother applying for the LEH with a GOS coming up the following month?
Ive looked through the whole thread and dont see were GG talks about both seasons are you sure it wasnt during a private conversation. Maybe I missed it. Depends what you call a mere handfull, I know lots that would.
Also if one wants to hunt early without disturbance and get first crack at the big bulls, there's always the bow season to utilize.

[Gateholio]

[quote=GoatGuy;635588]Looks like we're on to the next hijack. You will have illegal animals harvested in any hunting season. 3 pts season, 2 pts season, 4 pts season, 6 pt season, full curl, 3/4 curl, 7/8 curl, male only, antlerless, LEH, you name it. You will have people who shoot grizzly bears thinking their black bears, ewes thinking their does and on and on and on. That's education not a reason to cancel a season.
Not quit sure whatyou mean by this. Its a lack of education so they shoot the wrong animal or thats how people get educated by just shooting then checking to see what it is.
Who cares if elk hang out in a cutblock? It's a 6 pts season. It's fail-safe. They could be hanging out in the bald ass prairie with 100,000 hunters and it would still work.

What do YOU think he meant? What do you think is the LOGICAL answer to your question?

[bayou]

[quote=bayou;635681]

What do YOU think he meant? What do you think is the LOGICAL answer to your question?
To answer you would be counter productive thats why I asked Him for dont know how he meant it.

[Jelvis]

I hope you posters are not lying about this gos, cuz I hear hunters in Kamloop$ talkin about doin some walkin in 4-08 already out here.
..it's a go so if your kiddin, nows the time for telling it like it i$.
Jelly ( is it or not ) hot to trot in 4-08 an don b late..

[bearass]

15 in one season eh? Funny, my brother lives in the EK and is in the bush every chance he gets (and is now retired :wink: ), and I hunt there for 2 weeks every year. I haven't found any in the 12 years the 6 point season has been in place, and we've just found a couple of SIX points that were shot but lost. You must be a great hunter that covers hundreds of miles. I'm impressed. :wink:


I have found a dead five point 3 times in the last four years over in the east koots.:confused:

[6616]

[quote=6616;635619]Like GG says, if both seasons were limited to 6 pointers there would certainly not be any conservation concern. The thing is would anyone but a mere handful of hunters bother applying for the LEH with a GOS coming up the following month?
Ive looked through the whole thread and dont see were GG talks about both seasons are you sure it wasnt during a private conversation. Maybe I missed it. Depends what you call a mere handfull, I know lots that would.
Also if one wants to hunt early without disturbance and get first crack at the big bulls, there's always the bow season to utilize.

I don't think Goat Guy was talking about any specific season or seasons, just pointing out a generic fact of elk management.

I was making reference to his statement that any 6pt bull elk season is a fail safe season with no conservation concerns, thus indicating that the cumulative harvest of two seasons (if that was ever considered) shouldn't be a concern (my statement, not GGs).

I don't recall the concept of two seasons coming up in this thread, or any other conversation, or in any MOE proposal, until you mentioned it just a couple posts ago, so it follows that no statements in this thread before that time would be in reference to two different seasons..

[6616]

Depends what you call a mere handfull, I know lots that would.[/color]

I'm still kinna struggling with the concept of an LEH season followed by a GOS season and how that would be of increased value to hunters, maybe the first couple of years when there's still a few real big tame bulls hanging around in Kristova or Pass Creek, but after that I really cannot see where there would be any benefit to hunters or the elk in doing this, why not just make the whole season GOS if there's no conservation concern?

It would be no different then making the first couple of weeks of elk season at Invermere into LEH, or the first couple weeks of mule deer or sheep season into LEH. Why don't we just make the first couple weeks of all GOS seasons into LEH? Would you see any added value for hunters in doing that? Do you think there would be any logical reason for hunters or managers to support that if there's no conservation concern for the species?

[BCrams]

I think Bayou and many other hunters are going to be really happy with this new opportunity.

The hunting pressure in areas of the East Kootenays will lighten up and have less pressure. People who otherwise in the past may have booked a weeks holiday from whereever they live (especially the WK folks) in the province to hunt the East Kootenays are now faced with a dilemma of booking holidays off to hunt their own back yard or in their traditional hunting spot in the EK while waiting for that WK draw which probably would never happen.

Furthermore, there will be so many hunters in the WK who have never or were never afforded the time off required to go hunt the EK or elsewhere in the province due to either time constraints or financial reasons or both. This greatly enhances their ability to go hunting after work and on weekends. This allows many Dads with kids to get them out hunting, if even getting a bull is a long shot as it is, but the important part is people will get to hunt.

[Jelvis]

Hunters want to hunt during the rut time period...especially peak period.
.. also in gos
also within the regulations from BC MOE, and hopefully in snow if possible.
and in fair play and a challenge.
jElvi$ .. we want it all and we want it now !

[6616]

Hunters want to hunt during the rut time period...especially peak period.
.. also in gos
also within the regulations from BC MOE, and hopefully in snow if possible.
and in fair play and a challenge.
jElvi$ .. we want it all and we want it now !

Did anyone hear,,,,, Kamloops Lake sheep are next to go onto GOS?

[hunter1947]

I'm still kinna struggling with the concept of an LEH season followed by a GOS season and how that would be of increased value to hunters, maybe the first couple of years when there's still a few real big tame bulls hanging around in Kristova or Pass Creek, but after that I really cannot see where there would be any benefit to hunters or the elk in doing this, why not just make the whole season GOS if there's no conservation concern?

It would be no different then making the first couple of weeks of elk season at Invermere into LEH, or the first couple weeks of mule deer or sheep season into LEH. Why don't we just make the first couple weeks of all GOS seasons into LEH? Would you see any added value for hunters in doing that? Do you think there would be any logical reason for hunters or managers to support that if there's no conservation concern for the species?


You are right Andy why two seasons LEH and GOS ????? ,someone tell me why ???? :confused: my thoughts is it is just a money grab for LEH tags ???..

[bayou]

[quote=6616;635935][quote=bayou;635685]

I don't think Goat Guy was talking about any specific season or seasons, just pointing out a generic fact of elk management.

I was making reference to his statement that any 6pt bull elk season is a fail safe season with no conservation concerns, thus indicating that the cumulative harvest of two seasons (if that was ever considered) shouldn't be a concern (my statement, not GGs).
Maybe it would be better to say what you mean the first time
I don't recall the concept of two seasons coming up in this thread, or any other conversation, or in any MOE proposal, until you mentioned it just a couple posts ago, so it follows that no statements in this thread before that time would be in reference to two different seasons..
It was actually mentioned in post #53 so quit some time ago.

[bayou]

[quote=6616;635951]I'm still kinna struggling with the concept of an LEH season followed by a GOS season and how that would be of increased value to hunters, maybe the first couple of years when there's still a few real big tame bulls hanging around in Kristova or Pass Creek, but after that I really cannot see where there would be any benefit to hunters or the elk in doing this, why not just make the whole season GOS if there's no conservation concern?
It gives those that liked the LEH hunt an oppurtunity and those that want a GOS an oppurtunity. Its weird some of your group are saying that people are gona be in for a big surprise in the WK for the elk are hard to find and hunt but you say there tame. Maybe thats how you seen it on your hunt there sure wasntlike that when I was there.
Again according to your group it was tried to be made into a GOS but was denied so I can only guess that there may have been some conservation concern.

It would be no different then making the first couple of weeks of elk season at Invermere into LEH, or the first couple weeks of mule deer or sheep season into LEH. Why don't we just make the first couple weeks of all GOS seasons into LEH? Would you see any added value for hunters in doing that? Do you think there would be any logical reason for hunters or managers to support that if there's no conservation concern for the species?
Some good ideas put them into next years proposals, the sheep one may help increase resident harvest.

[bayou]

[quote=BCrams;635957]I think Bayou and many other hunters are going to be really happy with this new opportunity.
Personally liked the chance at the draw hunt.
The hunting pressure in areas of the East Kootenays will lighten up and have less pressure. People who otherwise in the past may have booked a weeks holiday from whereever they live (especially the WK folks) in the province to hunt the East Kootenays are now faced with a dilemma of booking holidays off to hunt their own back yard or in their traditional hunting spot in the EK while waiting for that WK draw which probably would never happen.
Some have allready stated that this may not be the case and people are still gona hunt there usaual spots and maybe use the WK as a back up. From what it kinda looks like to me some that never really had an interest in the draw hunts etc are now gona head there. Only time will tell what really happens.
Furthermore, there will be so many hunters in the WK who have never or were never afforded the time off required to go hunt the EK or elsewhere in the province due to either time constraints or financial reasons or both. This greatly enhances their ability to go hunting after work and on weekends. This allows many Dads with kids to get them out hunting, if even getting a bull is a long shot as it is, but the important part is people will get to hunt.

So if im reading this right its better to have people out there even if the chance of getting something is slim. To me this sounds more like a money grab then the LEH system. I also feel that you guys want more people out there so you show an increase in hunters which in turn gives you more votes to ask for more seasons etc.

[6616]

Maybe it would be better to say what you mean the first time[/COLOR]

I don't think anyone else had any problem understanding what I meant.

[6616]

Again according to your group it was tried to be made into a GOS but was denied so I can only guess that there may have been some conservation concern.[/COLOR]

Some good ideas put them into next years proposals, the sheep one may help increase resident harvest.

As far as I know the proposal has not been denied mainly because there is no conservation concern. If the proposal ever is denied it will be due to political interference in wildlife management, not due to a conservation concern, I think everyone is well aware of that...!

If you want me to support your proposals you'll have to take them to your local club, get them passed at that level, then take them to the EKWA and seek majority support from the other clubs. When all this is done and a proposal is agreed on by a majority vote of EKWA clubs, it would then be submitted to MOE and at that point I would be involved. Prior to that I'm just one vote out of 2000 BCWF members in the East Kootenay. I don't put in proposals, my role is merely to take forward proposals from the EKWA to MOE, or to forward and support comments on MOE proposals made by the EKWA.

[6616]

So if im reading this right its better to have people out there even if the chance of getting something is slim. To me this sounds more like a money grab then the LEH system. I also feel that you guys want more people out there so you show an increase in hunters which in turn gives you more votes to ask for more seasons etc.

I would choose to believe that being out there every year even with a marginal chance of success is much better then waiting 50 to 100 years for the remote chance to be out there at all....!

What's wrong with wanting an increase in hunter numbers so our political voice in Victoria for hunters rights, for wildlife conservation, and for habitat protection is stronger....??? would that not be a huge benefit to hunters in general..??

[GoatGuy]

Not quit sure whatyou mean by this. Its a lack of education so they shoot the wrong animal or thats how people get educated by just shooting then checking to see what it is.


Neither, guess again. Engage mind first.

[Gateholio]

I would choose to believe that being out there every year even with a marginal chance of success is much better then waiting 50 to 100 years for the remote chance to be out there at all....!

What's wrong with wanting an increase in hunter numbers so our political voice in Victoria for hunters rights, for wildlife conservation, and for habitat protection is stronger....??? would that not be a huge benefit to hunters in general..??

Why are you trying to use logic and reason here?:wink:

[6616]

[quote=6616;635951]Its weird some of your group are saying that people are gona be in for a big surprise in the WK for the elk are hard to find and hunt but you say there tame.

It's rough tough country and not easy to hunt away from the valley bottom as you are well aware of. I'm sure you're also aware that there's several select places where there's some big bulls that are quite habituated. I'm also pretty sure you are aware that for the most part those elk are on private property and as soon as they step off private land they're going to get shot. Is that what's bugging you, that someone besides a LEH winner may have an opportunity to shoot those bulls...? Why is it that everything needs to be explained three of four times before you comprehend....???????

[6616]

Why are you trying to use logic and reason here?:wink:

Good question,,,,, there doesn't seem to be any reflection of logic and reason in this conversation anymore........!!!

[BCrams]

[quote=]I think Bayou and many other hunters are going to be really happy with this new opportunity.
Personally liked the chance at the draw hunt.


A draw you probably would never get in your lifetime. Now you can choose to go hunt the WK or hunt areas in the EK that may be less pressured because of the shift to the WK. Everyone wins.

[quote]Some have allready stated that this may not be the case and people are still gona hunt there usaual spots and maybe use the WK as a back up.

Perhaps for some people they'll have the time / resources to go to the WK and hunt there too as a back up. Why not. At least everyone knows based on your logic that you're not going to go hunt the WK and you'll stick with your usual EK spots.


Bayou = From what it kinda looks like to me some that never really had an interest in the draw hunts etc are now gona head there.

Why bother putting in for an elk draw they likely will never get drawn for?? Of course they will be ecstatic they can go hunt there now if they choose to as well as those who have put in for draws in the past.



So if im reading this right its better to have people out there even if the chance of getting something is slim. To me this sounds more like a money grab then the LEH system. I also feel that you guys want more people out there so you show an increase in hunters which in turn gives you more votes to ask for more seasons etc.

The more hunters we get out hunting, the better it is for all of us. I just saw what 6616 put and its also for all those reasons.

Sounds like to me based on what you said, you're a GO affiliate in some way or form where you realize if resident hunter numbers increase, it also hurts the agenda the GO's have wanting more restrictions, more LEH etc which hurt resident hunting opportunities.

[Devilbear]

This individual, who has made false and derogatory comments about me in this thread, is somehow connected with the GO industry and this is what motivates his posts. The lack of ability with basic English, the aggressive posture when he posts and the apparent lack of comprehension of very simple and repeated replies to his queries indicate to me, that he is merely trying to cause trouble here and his concern for Elk is largely a "smokescreen".

There is a comment on the other thread here concerning sheep in Region 6, posted by one of the most credible and highly respected members of HBC, "Bridger" to the effect that the GO's quotas in that region may be eliminated by 2012 and they will be allowed to kill whatever rams they choose, as I read it. Since Gordo has eliminated the requirement for GO licencees to be BCers, it would not surprise me to find that he is selling out other wildlife and fisheries resources to foreign interests,, as well.

This, could well be what is going to happen in Region 4, where the GOs will be allowed to bring in as many fatazz Yankees to kill OUR Elk as they wish to and, if so, maybe those who protest against opening a GOS for we resident hunters have an agenda that is not yet apparent.........

Again, there is NO room for GOs or foreign trophy collectors in the Kootenays and there is ONLY room and game for we BCers!

[bayou]

[quote=6616;636128]As far as I know the proposal has not been denied mainly because there is no conservation concern. If the proposal ever is denied it will be due to political interference in wildlife management, not due to a conservation concern, I think everyone is well aware of that...!
Well have a look at post 105 for Ibeleive it says the proposal was for the same dates as EK but did not pass.
Why is it that everything needs to be explained 3 or 4 times before you comprehend?
If you want me to support your proposals you'll have to take them to your local club, get them passed at that level, then take them to the EKWA and seek majority support from the other clubs. When all this is done and a proposal is agreed on by a majority vote of EKWA clubs, it would then be submitted to MOE and at that point I would be involved. Prior to that I'm just one vote out of 2000 BCWF members in the East Kootenay. I don't put in proposals, my role is merely to take forward proposals from the EKWA to MOE, or to forward and support comments on MOE proposals made by the EKWA.

[bayou]

[quote]
[quote=bayou;636006]

A draw you probably would never get in your lifetime. Now you can choose to go hunt the WK or hunt areas in the EK that may be less pressured because of the shift to the WK. Everyone wins.



Perhaps for some people they'll have the time / resources to go to the WK and hunt there too as a back up. Why not. At least everyone knows based on your logic that you're not going to go hunt the WK and you'll stick with your usual EK spots.

.

Why bother putting in for an elk draw they likely will never get drawn for?? Of course they will be ecstatic they can go hunt there now if they choose to as well as those who have put in for draws in the past.




The more hunters we get out hunting, the better it is for all of us. I just saw what 6616 put and its also for all those reasons.

Sounds like to me based on what you said, you're a GO affiliate in some way or form where you realize if resident hunter numbers increase, it also hurts the agenda the GO's have wanting more restrictions, more LEH etc which hurt resident hunting opportunities.
No sorry your wrong not affiliated with GO in any way, been through this with you guys allready I get mountain hunter magazine and guided in the early 80s thats it, butif that makes me affiliated in your mind so be it.
Now if you guys think that LEH is a tool or restriction but out by GOs then all those that apply for LEH are supporting them in there plans. The are probable particular fond of the ones that get the draw then dont use it, this really helps in keeping the animalss for there clients.

[bayou]

This individual, who has made false and derogatory comments about me in this thread, is somehow connected with the GO industry and this is what motivates his posts. The lack of ability with basic English, the aggressive posture when he posts and the apparent lack of comprehension of very simple and repeated replies to his queries indicate to me, that he is merely trying to cause trouble here and his concern for Elk is largely a "smokescreen".
Well as fisherdude likes to say sorry FAIL
There is a comment on the other thread here concerning sheep in Region 6, posted by one of the most credible and highly respected members of HBC, "Bridger" to the effect that the GO's quotas in that region may be eliminated by 2012 and they will be allowed to kill whatever rams they choose, as I read it. Since Gordo has eliminated the requirement for GO licencees to be BCers, it would not surprise me to find that he is selling out other wildlife and fisheries resources to foreign interests,, as well.

This, could well be what is going to happen in Region 4, where the GOs will be allowed to bring in as many fatazz Yankees to kill OUR Elk as they wish to and, if so, maybe those who protest against opening a GOS for we resident hunters have an agenda that is not yet apparent.........

Again, there is NO room for GOs or foreign trophy collectors in the Kootenays and there is ONLY room and game for we BCers!

Im guessing this is directed at me please explain the false and derogatory comments.
I see quit a few derogatory comments made by you right here in this post, funny how you get to say what you want.

[6616]

Well have a look at post 105 for Ibeleive it says the proposal was for the same dates as EK but did not pass.

Yes, the original proposal was for different dates, the proposal has been revised and modified several times, but not rejected,,,, at least not yet.
Besides, that doesn't change what's important,,, and that's the fact that most people still believe it's a good proposal worth supporting...!

[Devilbear]

Im guessing this is directed at me please explain the false and derogatory comments.
I see quit a few derogatory comments made by you right here in this post, funny how you get to say what you want.

I have not made ANY derogatory comments about you, I merely posted facts as demonstrated by your posts and my subjective impressions thereof. I did NOT, as you did to me, accuse you of having ...wasted... a LEH or, of having ...failed....

Now, if you really want to discuss this issue, perhaps you might adopt a less aggressive and obnoxious tone and stop making comments about me, for one, such as those above. You cannot begin to hold your own in debate with GG, 6616, F-D, or any of the other serious, experienced hunter-conservationists here and, frankly, your posts so far make you look like a fool.

[bayou]

I have not made ANY derogatory comments about you, I merely posted facts as demonstrated by your posts and my subjective impressions thereof. I did NOT, as you did to me, accuse you of having ...wasted... a LEH or, of having ...failed....

Now, if you really want to discuss this issue, perhaps you might adopt a less aggressive and obnoxious tone and stop making comments about me, for one, such as those above. You cannot begin to hold your own in debate with GG, 6616, F-D, or any of the other serious, experienced hunter-conservationists here and, frankly, your posts so far make you look like a fool.
You did fail for I am no way affiliated with GOs and has nothing to do with my opinions so your assumptions are all wrong.
If your talking about me in the first 4 sentences of post 162 then yes they are derogatory so is saying GFY so is saying fatass yankees or sellout traitor Gordo all derogatory comments you should really practice what you preach.
A man is only as good as his word and since you keep saying you will ignore me but keep coming back slinging mud then to me you just cant be trusted and are not a man of his word. So be it.

[Devilbear]

I have already noticed that you cannot write, spell or make a post without several errors; it now seems that you cannot even read basic English. Read what I wrote and try to understand my first sentence.

As to the rest of your illiterate rant, you made a nasty and uncalled for comment to me and so I told you to GFY....let's take it to PMs.