mule deer season change in 7b

[bridger]

recent aerial surveys by moe have confirmed what local hunters have been saying for two years.
"qoute"
These recent survey data indicate that mule deer numbers are relatively low,supporting personal observations from our staff and other residents in the area,and have declined by 66% since 2005 and 48% since 2008, due largely to severe winters and liberal bag limits.These surveys allowed us to quantify these observations and support the proposed regulation change
The current regulation allows harvest of antlerless mule deer from Nov. 1 to Nov. 30, ourproposed change is to have no open season on antlerless mule deer, starting with the 2010 hunting season.

[tomahawk]

You got to do what you got to do!

[Gunner]

Is this the same MOE that insituted the"liberal bag limits" in the first place,mostly in response to farmer's complaints?Different biologist I believe. Gunner

[wetcoasthunter]

Suprised they didn't say competition with the whitetail population was a factor in the decline as well

[Stillhunting]

That's too bad it's reached this point, here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

[trapperRick]

Mule deer are an more Invasive speices they push whitetail out, whitetail don't push mule deer out of an area I have seen this happen back home in Sask time and time again. Some of the best and I mean best whitetail hunting you could want is now all mule deer.

[blindguy]

I always thought white tails pushed mulies at least thats what i noticed.

[Flingin' Sticks]

Yeah, I've always seen the opposite to be true. Whitetails are much more aggressive in the rut IMO and end up pushing the mulies away while they breed.

[hunterofthedeer]

Will this affect the youth antlerless season too. Just thought I would ask. I think they should do whatever they need to do to continue hunting for many years to come.

[gibblewabble]

Agreed whitey's are way more aggressive.

[ElkMasterC]

That's what I'd heard as well.

Whitetails in the Peace, anyone?

Help a brother Mulie out. ;-)

[jml11]

Mule deer are an more Invasive speices they push whitetail out, whitetail don't push mule deer out of an area I have seen this happen back home in Sask time and time again. Some of the best and I mean best whitetail hunting you could want is now all mule deer.

Here in BC most people consider Whiteys to be pests...

Review this document by the MoE, it provides some rational for why White-tailed deer are considered better colonizers than mulies. It comes down to higher reproductive and population growth rates on top of being more elusive than mulies making them harder to hunt and less susceptible to over-harvest.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/managment-issues/docs/white-taileddeermanagmentbc.pdf

[bridger]

i didn't think this was a whitetail versus mulie thread but a testimony to the screwed up way deer are managed in the peace!!!

[leadpillproductions]

Im glad there getting rid of the anterless hunting unless they keep it for youths that would still be good

[dana]

I'm sure the handing out of 'starving' deer tags in the winter months a few years ago really helped the situation eh? Piss poor management to keep a GOS doe season after that winter. Of course they knew best and always do.

[bridger]

dana you are right on. the winter of 06/07 killed by the moe's own admission 50% of the mule deer in 7b. it was really bad. we had 37 die in our haystacks. my wife hand fed barley and hay to 27 does and fawn sin the back yard that winter and only 10 made it through to spring. then for three years we had open antlerless seasons. go figure.

[pete_k]

This mild winter should help with the come back.
Putting some yotes on the ground would help too.

[BCrams]

Closing up the GOS antlerless deer season for mule deer appears it will put mule deer on track to increase their populations back up to the pre-winter kill numbers.

What are they going to do to make sure the mule deer population does not approach those pre '06 numbers again and cause another massive die off???

While the numbers may be down compared to the couple years before the winter kills happened in the 90's and '06, has anyone thought that perhaps the lower numbers are actually better for the overall health of the deer population?? I agree perhaps get the numbers up a little more but I don't want to see it back to the pre-winter kill numbers. With a little work, the mule deer hunting is still great!!

[Mountain Hunter]

recent aerial surveys by moe have confirmed what local hunters have been saying for two years.
"qoute"
These recent survey data indicate that mule deer numbers are relatively low,supporting personal observations from our staff and other residents in the area,and have declined by 66% since 2005 and 48% since 2008, due largely to severe winters and liberal bag limits.These surveys allowed us to quantify these observations and support the proposed regulation change

Hey Bridger, Do you have any idea if the MoE have released the 'recent survey' report for review by the public?

And, do you know if they have any population (survey) reports available from previous years?

[elkdom]

I hunt 7B a LOT! I know many hunters, the antler less 7B GOS for mulies is a topic discussed a LOT! , hunting antler less mule deer is basically a wasted GOS season for the majority hunters I know! most of us couldn't be bothered to shoot an antler less mule deer !
I constantly speak with several 7B butchers, the butchers confirm that antler less mule deer are brought in for butchering in very LOW numbers!

ROAD kill is very high, predator numbers is very high, and there is defiantly many more whitetails in areas formerly inhabited mainly by mulies!

closing the 7B GOS for muley antler less may provide more roadkill and more table fare for predators, but if antler less 7B GOS hunting is decimating the mule deer populations, then the with same period of white tail antler less 7B GOS ,should also be decimating the whitetail population? NOT SO!

[KevinB]

Here in BC most people consider Whiteys to be pests...

Review this document by the MoE, it provides some rational for why White-tailed deer are considered better colonizers than mulies. It comes down to higher reproductive and population growth rates on top of being more elusive than mulies making them harder to hunt and less susceptible to over-harvest.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/managment-issues/docs/white-taileddeermanagmentbc.pdf

Thanks for that link jml. I've saved it for later reading.

I too was under the impression that whitetails tend to out-compete mulies all else being equal. All I have read on the subject (which is pretty modest) points to that. I don't think I have ever read anything by an ungulate biologist that agrees with trapperRick's theory.

[Tikatack]

Regardless of the numbers of harvested anterless hanging in the meat lockers, this measure is confirmation that mulie population management has been suffering either from lack of information or lack of calculation. There shouldn't be any reason why there's a GOS mulie antlerless one year and then no GOS mulie season in consecutive years. That series of decisions can only be atributed to poor management. That is frustrating.

[bridger]

the sad part of the mule deer saga in 7b is that for years we had an ultra conservative harvest strategy. 4pt bucks only then one 4pt buck every two years. in the meantime the mulie population exploded due some mild winters to the point that the agricultural community started complaining and demanded a reduction in the mulie population. the moe agreed in the fall of 2006 to reduce the pop by 50% in the ag zone begininng with the 2007 season. then we had a diaster of a winter in 06 which killed 50% of the mulies. So instead of backing off from the antlerless season they kept killing deer until they are down 66%. So now here we are with a fraction o the mule deer the habitat can support.

[elkdom]

the sad part of the mule deer saga in 7b is that for years we had an ultra conservative harvest strategy. 4pt bucks only then one 4pt buck every two years. in the meantime the mulie population exploded due some mild winters to the point that the agricultural community started complaining and demanded a reduction in the mulie population. the moe agreed in the fall of 2006 to reduce the pop by 50% in the ag zone begininng with the 2007 season. then we had a diaster of a winter in 06 which killed 50% of the mulies. So instead of backing off from the antlerless season they kept killing deer until they are down 66%. So now here we are with a fraction o the mule deer the habitat can support.

:? go figure, for a few years I could only kill 1 mule deer 4 point every 2 nd year!:confused:,

in those same years, having the "Luck of the Irish" on my side!, 4 years straight I pulled LTD entry tags for a GRIZZ in the same Reg 7B, the way I understood what the MOE was indicating, there were more Grizzlies in 7B than mule deer BUCKS, lmao:shock:, gross mismanagement!:(

but during those years of HUGE restrictions on 4 point muley harvest?? I could take a drive for 30 minutes with my daughter on the way to drop her off at school, and count sometimes more than 25 muley 4 point or better bucks, in less than 20 klms of DRIVING side roads!

the BIO's had their head up their A$$ those days, now they have some new approach and still have their head up their A$$ ! :?

[luckynuts]

Really glad they are making or thinking of making this change. The liberal bag limits stemmed from the agri zone geting hit hard by the ungulates and of course the spoilage of feed due to droppings. The pendulum will always swing one way or the other. Hopefully the mulies will rebound quickly with this mild weather.

[elkdom]

there are still some ares in 7B with good numbers of mule deer, but nothing like 10 years ago,,, and I agree overall at least down by 50% IMO,:icon_frow

[luckynuts]

there are still some ares in 7B with good numbers of mule deer, but nothing like 10 years ago,,, and I agree overall at least down by 50% IMO,:icon_frow

I can remember 4-5 yrs ago seeing 75-200 mulies in any one field norh of John. now I'm lucky to see 5-7 in a group. Though I did see 2 nice bucks last summer though only till sept 8th then they vanished:evil: Was also low numbers for whities this past fall as well. Not nearly as many bucks. Hence the tag soup

[elkdom]

there are still some ares in 7B with good numbers of mule deer, but nothing like 10 years ago,,, and I agree overall at least down by 50% IMO,:icon_frow

I can remember 4-5 yrs ago seeing 75-200 mulies in any one field norh of John. now I'm lucky to see 5-7 in a group. Though I did see 2 nice bucks last summer though only till sept 8th then they vanished:evil: Was also low numbers for whities this past fall as well. Not nearly as many bucks. Hence the tag soup

some of the same fields that in Nov of 2009 had NO white tail bucks to speak of, now have about 25% of the herd consisting of bucks! and STILL carrying their antlers!, this last year has been strange for game patterns, dont believe they are EXTINCT ? just because they were tough to find last hunting season!

[BCHunterFSJ]

It's about time the MOE have come to their senses and finally realized (admitted?) that there is a problem with mule deer in the Peace Region.
I, for one, am glad they are getting rid of that ridiculous month long open season on does. It just didn't make any sense! I also wish that the MOE guys would take the time to listen to what we, the hunters who are out in the field all the time, have been telling them...

[elkdom]

It's about time the MOE have come to their senses and finally realized (admitted?) that there is a problem with mule deer in the Peace Region.
I, for one, am glad they are getting rid of that ridiculous month long open season on does. It just didn't make any sense! I also wish that the MOE guys would take the time to listen to what we, the hunters who are out in the field all the time, have been telling them...

agreed! but I wont be a bit surprised if the MOE shuts down the antler less 7B GOS mule deer hunt??

then they will most likely also shut down the white tail antler less 7B GOS :confused:,

and according to ICBC animal collision Claims :oops:, there is NO shortage of deer in Reg 7B!:?

[Creeker]

Hey Elkdom,
Where are you seeing the animal collision info for 08 and 09 in the peace region?
I cant seem to find any information after 2007. Is there a differnet statistics page for claims as to reported collisions?

[pitbell]

Took them 3 years to figure that out? Better late than never.

[hunter1947]

The way I see it more miss management and I don't like the season open from Nov 1 to Nov 30 thats when the bucks are easy pickings ,why not have it open Oct 1 to the 30th Oct would make more sense to me there harder to hunt at this time and more bucks would get through the hunting season without being taken.

I would also say that the doe numbers would be down as well ,no open season for does.....

[luckynuts]

The way I see it more miss management and I don't like the season open from Nov 1 to Nov 30 thats when the bucks are easy pickings ,why not have it open Oct 1 to the 30th Oct would make more sense to me there harder to hunt at this time and more bucks would get through the hunting season without being taken.

I would also say that the doe numbers would be down as well ,no open season for does.....

Reason is that moose and elk are open. Would increase the hunting pressure. CO's all ready are under staffed and over worked up here. 2nd you are right it is easy pickings if you hunt a farmers field which is needed to stabilize the numbers in the agri zones but as for the timber hunters you go sit in -40 for a few hours ..... you will soon find out it ain't that easy:wink: specially if your after big bone. Though I agree mulies taste like shit in November would be nice to see them bring back the leh for october for bucks any ways.

[luckynuts]

some of the same fields that in Nov of 2009 had NO white tail bucks to speak of, now have about 25% of the herd consisting of bucks! and STILL carrying their antlers!, this last year has been strange for game patterns, dont believe they are EXTINCT ? just because they were tough to find last hunting season!

I don't believe their numbers are extinct for a second though their numbers are down and way down from 2006 levels. The deer will migrate to fields with better feed as they always do and a lot of fields changed crops which is one reason but there a several fields in which they used to hang out that have oats and swathed and then left for winter feed for cows that have 5-12 moose on it every morning but only a hand full of whities and no muliles. I travel a few hundred kms a day through farmland and have noticed a huge decline the last 2yrs. Biggest group of mulies I see are a herd of about 12-16. Largest herd of whities is around 30. Though it used to be in the hundreds.:wink:

[BCrams]

The way I see it more miss management and I don't like the season open from Nov 1 to Nov 30 thats when the bucks are easy pickings,why not have it open Oct 1 to the 30th Oct would make more sense to me there harder to hunt at this time and more bucks would get through the hunting season without being taken.

I would also say that the doe numbers would be down as well ,no open season for does.....

There's nothing wrong the the Nov 1-30 season in the Peace. Hunting muley bucks is not that easy in the Peace as many fellows go home empty handed every year.

You could say it is sort of the same scenario like the EK are in regarding elk. Manage those numbers to get too high that the habitat cannot support and mother nature will inflict more damage to the population numbers than more liberal seasons ever would.

[elkdom]

The way I see it more miss management and I don't like the season open from Nov 1 to Nov 30 thats when the bucks are easy pickings ,why not have it open Oct 1 to the 30th Oct would make more sense to me there harder to hunt at this time and more bucks would get through the hunting season without being taken.

I would also say that the doe numbers would be down as well ,no open season for does.....

there are lots of bucks before season opens,there are lots of bucks after both seasons end, there is a GOS (bow only season from Sept 01 to Sept 30, either sex,any age in Reg 7B) then the rifle season in November 01 to Nov 30,
the FACT is the majority of resident hunters in Reg 7B,will not pull the tigger on any buck if it isnt a wall hanger, myself included ! as for out of region hunters there are some but not HOARDS of deer hunters traveling 1200 klms for a doe deer hunt!
this November I personally passed by more than 50 leagal 4 point mulies, but none of them were exceptional, so I let the walk,,as for muley meat, I am not interested, so my tags stays uncut! many friends I know ,that live here have the exact same outlook on deer hunting,

the MOE has no foundation for numbers of deer harvested in Reg 7B the last few years,
Harvest Questionnaires ??? what an fnnn joke, my return says I hunted 14 days and didnt kill a DEER ??? could shot about 300 deer( does and bucks combined), just didnt want one unless it was an exceptional buck!

but I can guarantee you I have drove past at least 200 dead ones along the roads locally in the last 4 months,,,,

one morning counted 17 fresh road kill deer in 25 klms of highway!

yeah shorten the hunting season, and increase the road kill!??? WTF ??:?

[Creeker]

"but I can guarantee you I have drove past at least 200 dead ones along the roads locally in the last 4 months,,,,

one morning counted 17 fresh road kill deer in 25 klms of highway! "


Elkdom
I know where you live and drive the same roads as you. And again you are out to lunch. As usual.

[elkdom]

"but I can guarantee you I have drove past at least 200 dead ones along the roads locally in the last 4 months,,,,

one morning counted 17 fresh road kill deer in 25 klms of highway! "


Elkdom
I know where you live and drive the same roads as you. And again you are out to lunch. As usual.

and I forgot to include the 6 dead moose and 2 dead elk on the same piece of road in the last 6 weeks.( Jan01, 2010 to Feb 12,2010)

maybe you should go "out to lunch"??? you may see some things??:?

[elkdom]

seems I am almost the ONLY guy seeing mule deer :roll:,,,

jeepers!:neutral:,,, I seem to see a lot of moose, elk, Grizz, also :mrgreen:


here is a few dozen mulies I imagined seeing in 2009, 5 k out of Dawson Creek:wink:

[muledeercrazy]

i think mule deer are more dependant on specific habitat. As far as agressiveness goes it is the oposite as what many on here have stated. Blacktails were a genetic offshoot of whitetails that developed on the west coast after the whitetails had migrated south and then west and then north up the west coast, and became isolated from the whitetail gene pool. The blacktails are more agressive than the whiteys, and pushed the whitetail bucks out of areas to mate with the whitetail does. This is what scientist believe created the muledeer subspecies.. But blacktails are definetly more agressive by nature than whitetails.

[pitbell]

Elkdom,
don't you think the fact that you live right smack in the area in question and you went all season long without seeing a single buck worth shooting a problem in itself?

[bridger]

:? go figure, for a few years I could only kill 1 mule deer 4 point every 2 nd year!:confused:,

in those same years, having the "Luck of the Irish" on my side!, 4 years straight I pulled LTD entry tags for a GRIZZ in the same Reg 7B, the way I understood what the MOE was indicating, there were more Grizzlies in 7B than mule deer BUCKS, lmao:shock:, gross mismanagement!:(

but during those years of HUGE restrictions on 4 point muley harvest?? I could take a drive for 30 minutes with my daughter on the way to drop her off at school, and count sometimes more than 25 muley 4 point or better bucks, in less than 20 klms of DRIVING side roads!

the BIO's had their head up their A$$ those days, now they have some new approach and still have their head up their A$$ ! :?


somethings never change!!

[elkdom]

Elkdom,
don't you think the fact that you live right smack in the area in question and you went all season long without seeing a single buck worth shooting a problem in itself?

I passed up several 180 muley bucks in 2009 season, I have killed several muley bucks in past years 180+, I have no interest in muley meat, so if I dont get one in my sights near 200 ?, then I wont shoot it, I have pages of pictures of dozens of mulies from last year(2009) including many 4x4 or better bucks most guys would pay lots of money to get chance at!

if you PEE your pants over a 180 class muley Buck :razz:,
then come on up and get one!:?

and the 180's I passed up last November should be better this fall,maybe?:mrgreen:

it would take me about 10 minutes after opening day sunrise to kill a 175-180 class muley within 5 minutes of my house, if not in my back yard,
so dont tell me what you think, I need to know from you!,, when it comes to finding game or if they are becoming extinct!:?

[David Heitsman]

I'm glad the aerials provided data for the decision makers. I just wish it was done annually. Couldn't some of the local wildlife groups provide funding to accomplish these aerials annually? That way a more current data set could be charted.

Personally I can't get my head around killing females of any kind. Just doesn't compute to me.

[7mag700]

Personally I can't get my head around killing females of any kind. Just doesn't compute to me.

...then you must be a trophy hunter? The oat-field muley doe I shot last year is far and away the BEST tasting venison I've EVER had. Maybe even the best meat in my freezer (and I have bison, boar, cow moose, WT doe, Muley buck, and bull elk in there). My buck from 2 years ago went mostly to pepperoni and sausage. I'm far more proud of the meat in my freezer than any antler that could come attached to it.

Sorry - not intending to rant (I seem to be going-off a lot lately :neutral:) just helping with the computation :wink:

I do agree with closing the Muley doe season though.

7m7

[bridger]

elkdom how about posting some pics of those big mulies. will help while away the time. bridger

[elkdom]

elkdom how about posting some pics of those big mulies. will help while away the time. bridger

what would you like to see ?,,,:)

alive ones,,? or dead ones ? :wink: there are some in my HBC photo gallery,,,

[BCrams]

what would you like to see ?,,,:)

alive ones,,? or dead ones ? :wink: there are some in my HBC photo gallery,,,

I'd love to see all the ones that are alive of those 180" bucks.

[elkdom]

I'd love to see all the ones that are alive of those 180" bucks.

3 kinds of people,
some wish something would happen,,
some MAKE things happen,,,
and some WONDER what happens,,,:wink:

[GoatGuy]

I'm glad the aerials provided data for the decision makers. I just wish it was done annually. Couldn't some of the local wildlife groups provide funding to accomplish these aerials annually? That way a more current data set could be charted.

Personally I can't get my head around killing females of any kind. Just doesn't compute to me.

Tough thing is you're looking at anywhere from 800-1300/he for chopper time. You've got ferry costs and often you'll have to hire a consultant to lay the study out because some our staffers don't have the specialization. Long story short you need a good pile of money if you're going to be doing a srb to get an idea of density. Most of the flights are simply looking to get an esimate of sex ratios and they're cheaper. For example in the ok if we were to look at moose sex ratios we'd probably do 4-5 of the mu. Cost would probably be 10k at a minimum to do it quick and dirty. Again that's really not gonna give us a great idea of total populatio size just sex ratios.

In terms of your second comment may be best if you ask someone with a background to take you through. Maybe Mari.

[willy442]

3 kinds of people,
some wish something would happen,,
some MAKE things happen,,,
and some WONDER what happens,,,:wink:

And you think all numbers are ok. If can go out and see an animal. What was it 2 years ago, when I said our deer herds were going to hurt. You said I had my head up my ass. Well I guess time has again proven our game management is reactive on account of people with your attitude. Maybe it's time now for you to clue in!. Moose are next.

[elkdom]

And you think all numbers are ok. If can go out and see an animal. What was it 2 years ago, when I said our deer herds were going to hurt. You said I had my head up my ass. Well I guess time has again proven our game management is retroactive on account of people with your attitude. Maybe it's time now for you to clue in!. Moose are next.

OOPS ! something wrong with my computer ??:?
I thought I had you on my "ignore list":mrgreen:

[GoatGuy]

And you think all numbers are ok. If can go out and see an animal. What was it 2 years ago, when I said our deer herds were going to hurt. You said I had my head up my ass. Well I guess time has again proven our game management is retroactive on account of people with your attitude. Maybe it's time now for you to clue in!. Moose are next.

What does retroactive game management even mean?

[aggiehunter]

Bridger, And yet guys posted on here pics and how proud they were of shooting deer off hay stacks......:confused:

[bridger]

Bridger, And yet guys posted on here pics and how proud they were of shooting deer off hay stacks......:confused:


what are you talking about??????

[willy442]

What does retroactive game management even mean?

Meant reactive and you know damn well what I meant.:)

[GoatGuy]

Meant reactive and you know damn well what I meant.:)

Some days..............