Doesn't seem fair.

[5/10/85]

I hunted private property (with permission) on Sumas Mtn all year. Scouted hard, got 2 different 4 pts and one 5x3 on the trail cam. GPSed locations, set up stands, hunted hard - probably harder than ever. Got ONE chance one morning on what I thought was one of the 4pts and made a perfect shot on a nice 3pt from 30yrds. Happy to get one, but really wanted one of the big guys - after seasons closed was still getting pics on the trail cam of all three big deer, so I was excited to get another chance next year on them.

Then yesterday, my buddy who owns the property (but doesn't hunt), showed me the picture of a deer his native friend took on his property - chased it up the driveway with his truck, scared it into a ravine. Followed with a big light (this was late at night) and shot it with a 30-30. I tried to be excited for my friend who shared in the experience. Long story short, I won't be getting a chance at that monster 5x3 next year, who may have been a 5x4. Doesn't seem fair. Not a lot of respect for out-of-season pit lamping with a rifle in bow-only territory. But maybe I would think different if I had status. Just needed to vent. Sorry.

[SHACK]

Nope, not fair, not legal, and something you should be reporting.

[mfarrally]

Sadly there are a 1000 stories just like yours. I just took a first aid course and an Indian was telling me he hunts, I say oh cool where abouts? He tells me he hunts in Duncan but mostly at night with his cross bow on private farm land. I really needed to finish the course for my job so I declined giving him the old irish handshake. Somehow they think this is ok. Last time I checked they didn't have trucks crossbows or 5 million candle power spot lights back whenever. Its pretty frustrating man

[Fisher-Dude]

1-877-952-7277

[.300WSMImpact!]

even if you report it nobody will do anything, it will go to court and he will get off, smile and wave is all we can do, until we all complain to the higher ups enough to make us all the same in the law

[brock77]

I hunted private property (with permission) on Sumas Mtn all year. Scouted hard, got 2 different 4 pts and one 5x3 on the trail cam. GPSed locations, set up stands, hunted hard - probably harder than ever. Got ONE chance one morning on what I thought was one of the 4pts and made a perfect shot on a nice 3pt from 30yrds. Happy to get one, but really wanted one of the big guys - after seasons closed was still getting pics on the trail cam of all three big deer, so I was excited to get another chance next year on them.

Then yesterday, my buddy who owns the property (but doesn't hunt), showed me the picture of a deer his native friend took on his property - chased it up the driveway with his truck, scared it into a ravine. Followed with a big light (this was late at night) and shot it with a 30-30. I tried to be excited for my friend who shared in the experience. Long story short, I won't be getting a chance at that monster 5x3 next year, who may have been a 5x4. Doesn't seem fair. Not a lot of respect for out-of-season pit lamping with a rifle in bow-only territory. But maybe I would think different if I had status. Just needed to vent. Sorry.

WTF- PIT LAMPING, SCARING UP THE DRIVE WAY, RIFLE IN A BOW ZONE. status or not that's not right, guys like that give guys like my self and others (with status) a bad rep, some one should slap this dude up side the head, with a heafty fine from the c.o. is all this happening on a res or off, eithery way still night right.
definitely not fair!

[Gr8 white hunter]

What do you expect from these low life scum bags.

[BCLongshot]

Hey I c your in Abby.

Sorry about this event and it does suck.

We do what we can to stop all the bullshit. That's what makes this country great vs. others.

I realize as I get older that these things always work themselves out.

At least u can walk around knowing that your not a JABRONI.

That my friend is the most important thing.

[.300WSMImpact!]

i really dont think they are scum bags, just average people doing what they are permitted to do by the government, hope some day it will change, and it will be for the better for all

[CanadanHirvi]

Life is not fair son. You probably learned a lot though. There will be other & bigger deer.

[Caribou_lou]

One thing to remember. Poachers are not hunters and they paint a bad picture for everyone.

[Caveman]

He tells me he hunts in Duncan but mostly at night with his cross bow on private farm land. Last time I checked they didn't have trucks crossbows or 5 million candle power spot lights back whenever. Its pretty frustrating man

I have to agree here! Give him a candle, a long bow and pony, I might be alright with it, but the truck, spotlight and rifle don't fly in the dark. Where are this guy's "Traditional" hunting grounds?

[Dually Guy]

Sadly there are a 1000 stories just like yours. I just took a first aid course and an Indian was telling me he hunts, I say oh cool where abouts? He tells me he hunts in Duncan but mostly at night with his cross bow on private farm land. I really needed to finish the course for my job so I declined giving him the old irish handshake. Somehow they think this is ok. Last time I checked they didn't have trucks crossbows or 5 million candle power spot lights back whenever. Its pretty frustrating man

You said it M , I couldnt have said it better! No trucks and spot lights in the Douglas days:twisted:

[wolverine]

Yeah, that sucks. I always hate to hear about anyone, not just white guys, pit lamping. He may have been entitled though his status to take that deer but not in the way that he did and not by discharging a firearm within the municipality and he should have his balls held to the fire like the rest of us would. As far as the deer goes... there will be more. That mountain has always produced nice sized deer ever since I was a kid and it still does. A little harder to find but they are still there.

[d6dan]

even if you report it nobody will do anything, it will go to court and he will get off

Sadly, it employs the lawyers, judges, and court clerks, and all that happens is a huge cost to the taxpayer.:cry:.

[guest]

Ya what a challenge for those using the lights at night, tough way to shoot.

Did he just take the back straps and hinds too ?

Just to cut a little deeper, the 30-30 bullet used didn't have any taxes on it either........

The Canadian Government remains prejudice and there are NO LAWS for all !

Sick and tired of it personally.

CT

[wildprotien]

30-30 rifle ? City limits is that legal on Sumas Mt. I thought that was bow only area ???
Should be bow only for everyone but I may be wrong .

[papaken]

I have to agree here! Give him a candle, a long bow and pony, I might be alright with it, but the truck, spotlight and rifle don't fly in the dark. Where are this guy's "Traditional" hunting grounds?

Personally don't agree with the methods used in this case. IE: spotlight and shooting at night. But not every native hunts this way.
In answer to the "Traditional hunting grounds" question. If he was Sto:lo Sumas Mountain is in the Sto:lo Territory which goes from Coquitlam to Yale and east to Sunday Summit and north of Harrison. A lot of this territory is now either private or park or just doesn't have any game. The laws say they can hunt for game in their traditional territory, no where does it say that they or us has to use the same tools our fore fathers did. I have known lots of hunters both native and non-native, almost all good but as with anything some real idiots in both societies.
I also believe we are loosing far more game on Sumas Mt. to mining and development than anything else.

[rifleman]

Sadly there are a 1000 stories just like yours. I just took a first aid course and an Indian was telling me he hunts, I say oh cool where abouts? He tells me he hunts in Duncan but mostly at night with his cross bow on private farm land. I really needed to finish the course for my job so I declined giving him the old irish handshake. Somehow they think this is ok. Last time I checked they didn't have trucks crossbows or 5 million candle power spot lights back whenever. Its pretty frustrating man
x 2. no respect. shouldn't be allowed

[sarnold]

it's FU&*ING BULL S*&T


sorry about your luck man, maybe one of the other big guys will be even bigger than that one was

[CanadanHirvi]

What about the land owner? He was with this guy, and they did it together. He is probably just as, if not more, responsible. He could have said no, this isn't gonna fly on my land.
Also, can't believe how people are grouping all natives in the same boat... I've seen few threads that turn into FN bashing, but this one was literally setting it up from the beginning. If you weren't racist, you would not have even mentioned the guy had status. Could have been some red neck, and we would have condemned the actions of an individual instead of a whole people group.

[Caveman]

Personally don't agree with the methods used in this case. IE: spotlight and shooting at night. But not every native hunts this way.
In answer to the "Traditional hunting grounds" question. If he was Sto:lo Sumas Mountain is in the Sto:lo Territory which goes from Coquitlam to Yale and east to Sunday Summit and north of Harrison. A lot of this territory is now either private or park or just doesn't have any game. The laws say they can hunt for game in their traditional territory, no where does it say that they or us has to use the same tools our fore fathers did. I have known lots of hunters both native and non-native, almost all good but as with anything some real idiots in both societies.
I also believe we are loosing far more game on Sumas Mt. to mining and development than anything else.

First off I will say I have native background in my family. Secondly, none alive that are "Status", not all from a watered down bloodline, just lack of interest in it over the years more than anything. Many hunters in the family, for the most part follow all the same rules as anyone else. I've heard stories of "idiots" in my own relatives, is all I'll say.

What I want to say is that it is about time, for all game conservation, that we all start to play by the rules. All the same would be my personal choice, as those are the ones I was brought up to respect, but if there are to be privileges for FN's, I believe they should have to follow some kind of rules as well, not taking advantage of technology and taking an unfair advantage of a situation, as in night vision or pit lamping, neither of which should be condoned by any people. If they were to take game in fair chase, during daylight hours and even year round for sustenance, most people would live with, but by running down with a truck, in the dark with a spot light I find hard to stomach. A little self governing and policing would put a better light on these people and less FN bashing would result.IMHO! As you said it happens in all walks of life but at least it would be a start. This is a huge country, room for all, and yes, mostly immigrants, it is a fact that the world populations are expanding and no one Continent can contain the masses. It is about time the grandstanding ends, and we all exist in peace as brothers, and protect the game and fish we love to pursue

The Sumas property owner. Anyone mention what his ethic background is?

[Jetboater]

I would still report it... A very well known CO lives on Sumas Right around where I think this happened, I am sure he would like to hear about it...I think it is the Killgard reserve whose members are doing this as I have seen way too many does and fawns hanging from their porches as of late....

[Piperdown]

Welcome to Canada my friend.

[pete_k]

If it was on reserve land then that's the way it is.
If it was on crown land or private land, then phone RAPP

[elkdom]

a lot of things are "not fair":(

like us getting all this nice powdery snow up north here,,:)

and the mountains around Vanoc-couger, getting green grass! ,,,,,, :cry:


:wink:

[Tikka270wsm]

IMO- the guy should be reported. If he shot the deer with a bow it would've been legal. It is illegal for a native to discharge a rifle within the muny too! They can be punished by the law like anyone else but most people don't bother reporting a native because they assume he/she will get away with it anyhow. How do you know for sure unless you report him. What's it gonna take, bullets flying through someones home at night before people are willing to take action?

[brock77]

What about the land owner? He was with this guy, and they did it together. He is probably just as, if not more, responsible. He could have said no, this isn't gonna fly on my land.
Also, can't believe how people are grouping all natives in the same boat... I've seen few threads that turn into FN bashing, but this one was literally setting it up from the beginning. If you weren't racist, you would not have even mentioned the guy had status. Could have been some red neck, and we would have condemned the actions of an individual instead of a whole people group.


CanadianHirvi is right the landowner could be held responsible as well. I'm sure if this happened on traditional territory the leaders will not be impressed (one hopes).
This might sound a bit out there but for your buddys friend "Our spiritual leaders will one day rain down his (or others) parade unleashing a stream of bad luck" kinda like Carma. What goes around, comes around and when she bites she holds on for a long time. He will get what he deserves, i hope

[guntech]

There are a lot of things that are not fair.

How 'status' is granted for one.

I saw an interesting program about DNA. It is easy to have your DNA tested and it will show where your 'roots' are. It will show your genetic make up.

For instance basket ball star Charles Barkley had his DNA tested. It shows his genetic make up is 14% Native American, 11% European, 75% Sub Saharan African.

I think to obtain what we consider "Native status" here in Canada should be determined by a DNA test with a minimum of 51% Native American DNA required to be considered a "Native".

Like that will ever happen.:(


.

[CanuckShooter]

There are a lot of things that are not fair.

How 'status' is granted for one.
I think to obtain what we consider "Native status" here in Canada should be determined by a DNA test with a minimum of 51% Native American DNA required to be considered a "Native".
.

Maybe they could give Canadian Status to refugees that have 51% Canadian DNA?? :-D

[afors]

A First Nations hunter only has the right to hunt on their traditional hunting lands anytime, other than that they need to hunt in season and if they are hunting an LEH they must have the draw. They do not have to get a hunting license or cut tags.

A hunter friend of mine is First Nations and was charged with poaching because he took a moose during an LEH from another bands traditional hunting land. He even had written permission from the Chief, but that was not enough. It was a tough lesson because from what he understood he was within his rights.

What you are talking about should be reported... single projectile fired within a municipality and possibly not hunting within his traditional lands.

I wouldn't report it out of spite because he took your deer, but because what he did was possibly against the law. Let the authorities decide.

[brock77]

"A hunter friend of mine is First Nations and was charged with poaching because he took a moose during an LEH from another bands traditional hunting land. He even had written permission from the Chief, but that was not enough" (mentioned from afors)


afors, was he stopped out side of the bands traditional territory?. if so i think it is just like a different jurisdiction for cops once outside of the line of the traditional territory with the animal he was in far game for the c.o ?

[abolt]

not legal, do the right thing and report it.

[silvicon]

well, th eguy in the original postingis an indian.
one thing that shoul dbe rectifyd by politic is to take their year-round-at-night hunting "rights"and put them on the same legal plateau as any person.
They are not in need to shoot game to feed their numberouse dogs and waste most of the animal one way or another.

[Greenhead]

5/10/85 can we at least see the trail cam pick of that bad boy? I mean now that he's gone, and you don't have a chance at him again:cry:

[Ovis17]

Not interested in getting into a FN pissing match. The more serious issue here is public safety. The no single projectile rule exists for obvious reasons. I'm sure you don't want to rock the boat with the landowner (possibly jeopardize your access) but you should report this..........

[adamgarbett]

Im a guy that likes to go for a drive in the bush and see wildlife in the off season, not gut piles left by POACHERS or INDIANS. I missed this little incident by hours.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww23/twojoints444/P1300731.jpg

[doubled]

Now that pi$$es me off!!!!

[Ddog]

it should be reported, as everyone else has said, what was done was indeed illegal. No ifs ands or buts about it. report it

[Blainer]

If you weren't racist, you would not have even mentioned the guy had status. Could have been some red neck, and we would have condemned the actions of an individual instead of a whole people group.Pretty bold statement to insinuate the poster is racist.
The relevance of stating that the individual had status,was to determine whether the actions were indeed legal or perceived to be legal by the individual.

[BuriedByTheDead]

k well i ahve status i hunt with a regular license and saying indians are scumbags all i can say is **** you guys..just becuase there is a few assholes doesnt mean everyone with a status card pitlamps ffs

[Jelvis]

That's true buried, can't judge all by just one other, everyone is different.
I concur with buriedbythedead

[elkdom]

k well i ahve status i hunt with a regular license and saying indians are scumbags all i can say is **** you guys..just becuase there is a few assholes doesnt mean everyone with a status card pitlamps ffs

good point! I have heard rumors all the "White Breads" are not perfect, law abiding, wild life respecting , morally responsible nice guys,,,

in every pile there are some turds,,, :?

[BuriedByTheDead]

and that picture with the guts on the side of the road what does that have to do with anything? that could be anyone its not like there is a dead animal so it was an "indian" jesus

[Jelvis]

I hear your pain buriedbythedead, it's time to let the dead bury the dead and pick up your rifle and head in to the bush hiking, looking for sheds..
..all that energy into the hiking...gut pile was ugly but looked like a gutless method.. I don't hunt after dark..too hard to see..
Just before day light and hunt til ten or so..for me but I ain't everyone..
.. As far as people rippin natives, I don't diggit either but it happens and will continue, despite us, we can't change the world, I don't have enough time, too old for dat, ignore it or stand up to it, like you do, I hope you don't use voodoo, lol we must use the limited time we have in our hour glass of life in a profitable manner, using it wisely..we have three years left to do it, then the world will be bankrupt.. so throw not thy pearls before swine, but help those who want it, and be careful not to fall into the whirl pool of doubt and fear, feelings and emotions give you a reason to reason. Reason it out, think different angles and perceptions and ideals and weigh them against the pragmatic, the limits of a person and beyond..
... like an eagle on a vertical thermal wind tunnel soaring higher and higher til he hits 18,000 ft above sea level....above the rest of life...
jElvi$ .. I was an oak, now I'm a willow I can bend...gentle on my mind...
It's knowing that your door is always open and your paths are free to walk..
Walk a mile in his moccasins ..or Oxfords or Nikes or Itasca Swampwalkers..
Mossy Oaks

[afors]

afors, was he stopped out side of the bands traditional territory?. if so i think it is just like a different jurisdiction for cops once outside of the line of the traditional territory with the animal he was in far game for the c.o ?

To answer your question Brock,
He pulled in at a game check -outside traditional hunting grounds- explained what they had done and how they got the moose. The CO read the letter from the Chief and called him right there in front of them and explained to him how it was not legal what was done and he should know better. The CO's then confiscated the moose.

They are British Columbia Conservation Officers, they have jurisdiction everywhere.

[CanadanHirvi]

Pretty bold statement to insinuate the poster is racist.
The relevance of stating that the individual had status,was to determine whether the actions were indeed legal or perceived to be legal by the individual.

This had nothing to do with legal. It was all about the fact that he was pissed off because another guy took a deer he had been scouting and working hard to get. It doesn't matter if the guy was native or not. Because he happened to be, this was used as an excuse for many people here to bash natives. I don't know how many people could possibly considered this to be even close to legal. Unless I'm completely mistaken, pit lamping with a fire arm within city limits simply sounds pretty illegal, even for natives. All I'm saying this guy started this thread to hate on the FN because he was pissed off at one of them.

[Jelvis]

I am pleased to see so many sticking up for the cause of hunting and a fair amount of native blood flowing in the threads of the site, which is a positive and shows tolerance in which all Canadians believe in, with so many different countries represented here. Toronto, Winterpeg, Vancouver and so forth loaded with a tapestry of many countries..
Let's be civilians of our country, and let the Canadian Armed Forces do their thang.
jElvi$ Cherokee people, so proud to live, so proud to die, live the life you love, and love the life you live...

[Dirty]

Hunting private property on Sumas Mountain is glorified urban hunting at its best. Mind as well be a high fenced hunt. If you enjoy sneaking around peoples back yard have at it. Sounds like your story fits the whole hunting atmosphere up there. To me this isn't hunting. It's all about who you know to hunt private parcels or sneaking around.

Wow, check out this picture of this Blacktail I arrowed at my buddy's house while it came into his apple trees. LAME.

To me the whole mountain should be closed to EVERYBODY.

[frenchbar]

Hunting private property on Sumas Mountain is glorified urban hunting at its best. Mind as well be a high fenced hunt. If you enjoy sneaking around peoples back yard have at it. Sounds like your story fits the whole hunting atmosphere up there. To me this isn't hunting. It's all about who you know to hunt private parcels or sneaking around.

Wow, check out this picture of this Blacktail I arrowed at my buddy's house while it came into his apple trees. LAME.

To me the whole mountain should be closed to EVERYBODY.


No kiddin...

[Jelvis]

Yah and because someone gets caught rippin up country on a quad or bike behind a road closure for motor vehicles, then get rid of all vehicles in the world, that's how unbalanced you seem lol...no body then .. boo hooo..
Don't you have any friends? lol..with yards and apple trees lol..get real..
Sumas Mtn is big and rocky in spots...hunt there..

[The Hermit]

Report it! PLEASE!! You might also consider having a heart to heart with your friend that owns the property and even point him to this thread so he gets a flavor!

[Allen50]

well besides all the crap being put on here about you story, how about showing the pic you have on trail cam so we all can see what you missed out on, and what you should show the co's. even if nothing gets done, they may watch his place closer and see if anyone else does this night hunting,, it happens all over and all we can do is report it and see where it leads,,,

[Centerfire]

People,

What we have here is someone poaching.

First Nations peoples are surely not the only people in BC who poach. I'm sure some poachers are also Chinese Canadians, Caucasian Canadians, black Canadians, etc. Get my point? So, just because he is of First Nations decent does not mean that all First Nations people should come under fire. Do you think it fair if a First Nations person were to hear of a caucasian paocher and call all caucasians "scumbags", as one brainiac on this forum stated. No.

If you have a problem with legitamate First Nations hunting laws, then that's fair. But don't judge legitamate First Nations hunters by what this poacher did.

Some non-hunters view all of us hunters as blood thirsty cold hearted killers that just want to get out there and shoot stuff. Sure, maybe there are a few "hunters" out there like that, but I bet you would feel wronged if those people felt that you were just like that because you hunt too. It's called PREJUDICE and it's wrong!

If he was poaching, then report him because he was poaching. Period.

As for the photo of the gut pile in the snow: how the heck do you know that a First Nations person did that? Did he/she leave his/her status card behind with a note that said "I did this"?

And by the way, Indians are people from India. First Nations, I believe, is what people native to this land prefer to be called.

-Centerfire

[hunter1947]

I feel for what you are going through ,I myself try to keep the trail cams and my scouting in areas where this will not happen to me.

I try and work on areas that are not worked by many hunters and try to get off the beaten path where chance are lot slimmer of this happening to a person...

A place with easy excess can bring problems weather it is on private property or not.

If I was scouting an area out all summer long with trail cams out I would want to do it in an area where it is hard to get to..

In your case there is nothing you can do about it ,only vent you just got to find a better way or continue hunting on your friends property and suffer the consequences if this happens to you again ,good luck on this years game plan for scouting http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif..

[Tanya]

Sadly there are a 1000 stories just like yours. I just took a first aid course and an Indian was telling me he hunts, I say oh cool where abouts? He tells me he hunts in Duncan but mostly at night with his cross bow on private farm land. I really needed to finish the course for my job so I declined giving him the old irish handshake. Somehow they think this is ok. Last time I checked they didn't have trucks crossbows or 5 million candle power spot lights back whenever. Its pretty frustrating man


YUp, and although it may not be him personally we find bolts and arrows in our bales. Not something a a cow digests well. And, nobody other than those of us that live on the farm have been given permission to hunt our properties. The gov't allows them to hunt at night with whatever weapon, but for the rest of us it is illegal because it is dangerous???? The only thing we can charge them with is trespassing, and it is difficult to partol large acreages, espcecially at night.....but I will go as far as the law will take me if I catch one. I have seen them on our property at dusk but they bolted before I could catch up to them. However, they are not the only poachers around, and unless they are trespassing, they are not poaching by using lights etc. according to the gov't. Trail cams are our friend, and spotting scopes, you can read license plates from a fair distance....

[NaStY]

Ok I think we see the point of all of this. If you think something is unfair or illegal, then report it or email your local politician.

We as a hunting group/community, need to remember that racism has no place anywhere. Also the site owner has requested that here will be no racism on this site. For that reason alone im locking this one down.



file:///D:/Users/Daddy/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.pnghttp://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/becauseican_2007/RAPPlogo100x128.gif