Should I breed my dog?

[Evolution]

Initially I was thinking Id get her fixed at 6 months, but now that she is 5.5 months Im really reconsidering. I know several people that would be interested in her pups, but beyond that I have been told that its better to let a bitch have a litter before she gets fixed.

If I decided to let her get bred, what age is appropriate? 1,2 years?
How do you choose a stud for her?
What can I expect all this business to cost me?
My dog has CKC papers, but do I need to register prior to breeding her?

[Dirty]

If your dog is CKC papered, then why would you need to register her?

I might ask this, and I do not want to be condescending. What do you want to accomplish breeding her? At 5.5 months what shows that she is worth breeding?

The main reason for breeding should be to produce dogs that contribute to the breed. This means sound dogs that are free from health problems and have good traits for the breed.

If you decide to breed make sure your dog and the stud have their eyes and hips certified at the least. It is the only fair thing for future owners and the breed.

[Bighorn hunter]

Very well said Dirty!

BH

[835]

if you wish to breed her
go to the breeder you got her from. If the dog is papered then i would think the breeder has done good buy the health checks.
Ask the breeder if they want to be part of it, They might be a good help
and just take a pup for it.

If not phone your vet for a list of health checks you should do and make sure the stud has them done as well. Selling the pups Should make up your costs.

[Sitkaspruce]

I had the same thought going through my mind when my Chessie was 6 month old.

I thought about it, but them talked to a couple who did the same thing and they said it was expensive and a lot of work.
You need to get a hold of a couple of the breeders here on the site and ask them about the breeding thing and all the extras involved in the process, from finding a good stud to the vet to the raising of the puppies. Lots of work.

I ended up not breeding her as I was a little scared of all the extra stuff needed. I would have had to travel 2 hours to PG to see a vet, finding a stud was also very difficult, (that fee was $500 and 9 hours away) and I was not set up for puppies at the house any more. She was fixed at 7 months.

Good luck!!!

Cheers

SS

[labguy]

If your dog is CKC papered, then why would you need to register her?

I might ask this, and I do not want to be condescending. What do you want to accomplish breeding her? At 5.5 months what shows that she is worth breeding?

The main reason for breeding should be to produce dogs that contribute to the breed. This means sound dogs that are free from health problems and have good traits for the breed.

If you decide to breed make sure your dog and the stud have their eyes and hips certified at the least. It is the only fair thing for future owners and the breed.

What Dirty said is exactely right..............the world doesn't need any more pups without health clearances that do nothing to improve the breed.

If your dog exhibits desireable taits after 2 years old (because that is the optimum time to test for dysplacia) and has all the health clearances (genetic tests pertaining to your particular breed) and the sire has all the desireable traits and health clearances, and there is a reasonable market of "good responsible homes" for the pups, then fly at er. IMHO

Good luck

[835]

If I decided to let her get bred, what age is appropriate? 1,2 years?
How do you choose a stud for her?
What can I expect all this business to cost me?
?


he did not say that he was going to breed her at 5.5 months.
he was asking when and how

[rocksteady]

but beyond that I have been told that its better to let a bitch have a litter before she gets fixed.

?

I think that is an urban legend.....It's like the theory that after you get a dogs nuts clipped that he settles down.....Depends on the dog.....No silver bullets...

[Kasomor]

Selling the pups Should make up your costs.

Hmmmmmm.......

Hip, elbows OFA $300
CERF $40
Heart $60
PRA $200
Haven't a clue what CEA or CMN clearances cost but think about $300
Stud fee; at least $500
Pre-breeding tests $100
Extra cost of food for bitch $100
Litter registration $100
Individual registration $200
Cost of raising pups including vaccines, worming, vet visits, formula, and the list goes on and on......$600- $1000

Now think of all the things that can go wrong.

First of all your highly desirable bitch gets out of the yard while in standing heat and gets bred by that miniature poodle "THING" down the road out. :twisted: All those folks that said they wanted a pup disappear. You no longer can sell the 10 pups the bitch has on board. You have to give them away before they eat you out of house and home.

C-section $1000
Emergency C-section $1500- $2500

Cost of after care.
To save bitches life because she has pyo $2000 +

Cost of you taking time off work because momma needs you as she has rejected puppies.

Heartache when pup dies in your hands at 9 or 10 days old.

And if all the pups die or mom only has one or two pups or god forbid dies, you are not going to be making ANY money. You will be in the hole!

You have to be prepared to fork out what ever it takes in money, time and energy to ensure the best possible out come for mom and pups AND be prepared for the heartache when everything seems to go wrong.

Breeding is not for the faint of heart.

Kasomor

[cavebear]

my vet told us its better to spay before the first heat. Apparently prevents breast cancer:-D

[Kasomor]

Initially I was thinking Id get her fixed at 6 months, but now that she is 5.5 months Im really reconsidering. I know several people that would be interested in her pups, but beyond that I have been told that its better to let a bitch have a litter before she gets fixed.

If I decided to let her get bred, what age is appropriate? 1,2 years?
How do you choose a stud for her?
What can I expect all this business to cost me?
My dog has CKC papers, but do I need to register prior to breeding her?

Was it not your pup who had either ditichiasis, ectropion or entropion??

All of these eye disorders are considered inherited. Therefore some or all of its offspring could have the same disorder.

I recall the pup had corrective surgery within days of being brought home from the breeder. It was the consensus on this forum that the breeder should have had the procedure done before selling the pup.

If I have the wrong pup forgive me.

Regards,

Kasomor

[Kasomor]

my vet told us its better to spay before the first heat. Apparently prevents breast cancer:-D


A spayed bitch will never get pyometra either, which is a concern every time the bitch cycles.

Regards,
Kasomor

[Jimbo]

A lot of people were interested in my chocolate lab's pups. After we had her bred every one of them had a reason not to buy a pup. The last 2 puips went at 4 months of age. At that stage you are into more shots, and basic training.
If people don't buck up with a deposit, they aren't really interested.

[SHACK]

Not trying to "belittle" your question, but if you have to ask, you should not be breeding your pup.....period!!!
Dirty said it right, as did a few others. Carefull thought and preperation needs to be considered before you even get your dog/bitch, and it sound like you are falling into the same trap many others do "my pup is so great, and so many people like her, so should I????"
Not the correct way to get into it. Fix your dog, and let people who do their homework long before they even have a particular pup to breed carry on the lines.

[835]

Kasmor
we all know only you are authorised to breed

[416]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 835 http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=615272#post615272)
Selling the pups Should make up your costs.

Hmmmmmm.......

Hip, elbows OFA $300
CERF $40
Heart $60
PRA $200
Haven't a clue what CEA or CMN clearances cost but think about $300
Stud fee; at least $500
Pre-breeding tests $100
Extra cost of food for bitch $100
Litter registration $100
Individual registration $200
Cost of raising pups including vaccines, worming, vet visits, formula, and the list goes on and on......$600- $1000

Now think of all the things that can go wrong.

First of all your highly desirable bitch gets out of the yard while in standing heat and gets bred by that miniature poodle "THING" down the road out. :twisted: All those folks that said they wanted a pup disappear. You no longer can sell the 10 pups the bitch has on board. You have to give them away before they eat you out of house and home.

C-section $1000
Emergency C-section $1500- $2500

Cost of after care.
To save bitches life because she has pyo $2000 +

Cost of you taking time off work because momma needs you as she has rejected puppies.

Heartache when pup dies in your hands at 9 or 10 days old.

And if all the pups die or mom only has one or two pups or god forbid dies, you are not going to be making ANY money. You will be in the hole!

You have to be prepared to fork out what ever it takes in money, time and energy to ensure the best possible out come for mom and pups AND be prepared for the heartache when everything seems to go wrong.



Kasomor


No wonder tollers are soooo expensive!! :)


Breeding is not for the faint of heart.

Absolutely right! I remember a time once after last call when only the brave and determined where still staggering around eyeing up each others pedigress ( positive that minurature poodle "THING" from down the road was there) .........the scene was definitely not for the faint at heart. :):)

[labguy]

Kasmor
we all know only you are authorised to breed

:-?Can't believe I'm defending Kasomor here but..............this is someone with quite a bit of information who offered an opinion based on knowlege and experience. This is what the orignal poster was asking for...

For my money an opinion based on knowlege, has far more validity than one that's based on ignorance.

The orignal poster got some good advice from people with knowlege and experience......................just what the thread was supposed to be about....:).

[Kasomor]

:-?Can't believe I'm defending Kasomor here but..............

Just about pee'd myself laughing!!!

Thanks...

I have numerous friends who breed labs, goldens and of course tollers. We share breeding horror stories with each other on a regular basis. Not to scare the shit out of each other but to LEARN from one and other.

The pup dieing in hand at 10 days old was a lab puppy. There was nothing the breeder could have done to prevent this.

The bitch pyo'ing was a golden. Not only did she have an emergency c-section but when she pyo'd had to go back under for a spay, the pups had to be bottle fed for 4 days (that's every two hours around the clock). Two pups died.

I know of a litter on the ground now and one pup is likely to die because the owner can not take time off of work to properly care for the puppy.

Retrievers, as a group, are some of the easiest, least problematic free- whelpers there are but problems do happen.

Breeding can be a complete joy but it can also suck BIG time.

If you can't handle it sucking big time and you don't have a bucket of $$ in reserve....DON'T do it.

Regards,
Kasomor

[Iron Glove]

Sister raises Havanese and she tells the same stories that Kasomar has. She has been quite succesful in breeding champions and is considered one of Canada's "experts" in the breed. Sometimes she makes a few bucks, sometimes she doesn't.
Out Toller breeder lost an entire litter to Parvo - figure 8 pups at $1500 each = a loss of $12,000 income and she still has all the expenses up to birth.
Me, I'm gonna let the experts do the job and I'll pay them handsomely for their work. They earn it.

[Marc]

Was it not your pup who had either ditichiasis, ectropion or entropion??

All of these eye disorders are considered inherited. Therefore some or all of its offspring could have the same disorder.

I recall the pup had corrective surgery within days of being brought home from the breeder. It was the consensus on this forum that the breeder should have had the procedure done before selling the pup.

If I have the wrong pup forgive me.

Regards,

Kasomor

I have to agree here that if the dog has an inherited defect like it was mentioned you're not doing anyone or the puppies a favor by having a litter.

I was doing a bit of research on the web and a dog that has had anyone of these defects corrected with surgery can not be shown in the ring as they don't conform to the " breed standard".

[835]

i conceed defeat

[guntech]

Initially I was thinking Id get her fixed at 6 months, but now that she is 5.5 months Im really reconsidering. I know several people that would be interested in her pups, but beyond that I have been told that its better to let a bitch have a litter before she gets fixed.

If I decided to let her get bred, what age is appropriate? 1,2 years?
How do you choose a stud for her?
What can I expect all this business to cost me?
My dog has CKC papers, but do I need to register prior to breeding her?

Did you buy the dog with the intention of becoming a responsible breeder? There is a lot more to it than being able to sell your pups because someone is interested. There are way too many irresponsible breeders already.

If you bought the dog for hunting or for a pet, get her spayed. They certainly do not require a litter before you do that.

[pnbrock]

i breed a rottweiler years ago and when the bitches milk did not drop off to the vets pups included ,lost my shirt on that great idea.never ever again!!

[springpin]

And now for something totally random.....My dogs breath smells like dog food!!!

[Busterbrown]

Now that Kasomor has scared the crap out of everyone reguarding retriever breeding, I will paint the picture that transpired with a breeding we have done 3 times. Both of the sire and Dam have all of the required health clearances and have very nice pedigrees. Both are chocolate The first litter they had produced 12 very healthy chocolate pups. The cost associated with the litter as follows

Tattoo -$15
Dew Claw- $15
CKC Reg Fee- $21.00 for litter
First Shots- unkown
My Stud Fee- $1000

These pups were sold for $1000 and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We kept a pup out of that litter and she is a beauty.Do the math
We repeated the breeding again with this liiter having 9 great chocolate pups and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We have just repeated the breeding again . I cannot figure out how they did this with-out Kasomors advise
For every horror story you here about with a litter of pups there are 100`s of no issue litters

[Lots'oLabs]

Now that Kasomor has scared the crap out of everyone reguarding retriever breeding, I will paint the picture that transpired with a breeding we have done 3 times. Both of the sire and Dam have all of the required health clearances and have very nice pedigrees. Both are chocolate The first litter they had produced 12 very healthy chocolate pups. The cost associated with the litter as follows

Tattoo -$15
Dew Claw- $15
CKC Reg Fee- $21.00 for litter
First Shots- unkown
My Stud Fee- $1000

These pups were sold for $1000 and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We kept a pup out of that litter and she is a beauty.Do the math
We repeated the breeding again with this liiter having 9 great chocolate pups and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We have just repeated the breeding again . I cannot figure out how they did this with-out Kasomors advise
For every horror story you here about with a litter of pups there are 100`s of no issue litters

I've refrained from responding on this thread but I think BB brings up a good point along with a couple of other considerations.

Let's say for the sake of aurgument that 835's dog will have all required health clearances at an appropriate age for breeding. Additionally maybe 835's dog is displaying some extreme raw hunting talent.
Who are we to say that his dog isn't worthy of being the beginning of a new extraordinary gene pool?

Past history has shown this to happen...Firwoodhills. These dogs came out of 2 dogs that didn't have any field titles but because 1 fieldtrialer recognized raw talent displayed by 2 dogs belonging to his hunting buddy, he went out on a limb to suggest that he would like a pup from that union, and thus a new line of highly sucessful dogs began. Those progeny 3 generations later are still dominating the BC circuit and making their name known nationally.

Now obviously there has to be some emotion removed from the decision to breed. Natural talent has to be inherant in order to make this work.

Also, I think it would be a travesty to believe that only well marketed kennels produce worthy dogs. There is definitely a significant cost involved. However is it that cost that designates the selling price of a dog or the combined cost of marketing?
Through personal contacts I see litter anouncements from field proven lines that sell for under than $1000.
I also see some pretty fancy websites that advertise field dogs for a comparable price, and sometimes higher, that when looking closley don't have much in the way of proven field titles.
In all cases all the dogs have all required health clearances, but it seems to me that the litters from proven field pedigrees are going to offer more value.

In short, 835, don't write yourself off. Let's see what you've got in a couple of years.

[Busterbrown]

Excellent point Debbie, Firwoodhills dogs were bred from two talented dogs that would not likely pass the breeding tests that the experts here would require, yet they have produced some incredible dogs. Know anyone who has one?????????????

[835]

Thanks lotsa labs
Except im not going to breed chase He is fixed. You although have said a bit of what i am trying to get at with this "Should i breed my dog" theam that pops up here.
I know what comments this is going to get but here i go
there are most definatly things that should be tested for befor breeding i know this. But if you have a dog that comes from good stock that has been tested. Pair it up with a dog that comes from good stock that has been tested, Why not?
I know there are health problems in the dog world. But for every one of you out there that can afford a 900-1200 dollar lab There is a bunch of people who would be great dog owners that cant. There are alot of people on this site that are head strong die hard breeders keeping the breed strong, which i fully agree with. But the guy who has bought a lab from a reputable breeder who wants to breed his dog, within reason should be abel to. Most of the dogs from what i am describing will wind up at a house where it will greet mom and dad when they come home get taken to the dog park and come home to sit on the couch.
And lead a long happy life. The guy doing the breeding and maby a couple of his friends would gain another duck dog to jump in the swamp with.

I know Kasmor has the best in mind, but the best is not always nessary
some times there is a little room to move.
And i am only singling Kasmor out because Kasmor has always stated the 180degree of what im saying.
I have no intention of ever breeding a dog i own but i do think that people should with a little reaserch and some education "back yard breed" if they want.

Thanks again Deb for all your help, When i do get another dog i'll goin that club we talked about if i can and mabe learn a few things :)

Few there

[Kasomor]

Now that Kasomor has scared the crap out of everyone reguarding retriever breeding, I will paint the picture that transpired with a breeding we have done 3 times. Both of the sire and Dam have all of the required health clearances and have very nice pedigrees. Both are chocolate The first litter they had produced 12 very healthy chocolate pups. The cost associated with the litter as follows

Tattoo -$15
Dew Claw- $15
CKC Reg Fee- $21.00 for litter
First Shots- unkown
My Stud Fee- $1000

These pups were sold for $1000 and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We kept a pup out of that litter and she is a beauty.Do the math
We repeated the breeding again with this liiter having 9 great chocolate pups and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We have just repeated the breeding again . I cannot figure out how they did this with-out Kasomors advise
For every horror story you here about with a litter of pups there are 100`s of no issue litters

What a rosey picture BB has painted of what to expect when breeding.:neutral: Your costs are off......litter reg. plus individual pup reg. of those 12 pups is $273 not $21. and you have missed a number of things

I'm not saying every breeding is a bust. That is ridiculous.
What I did say is....

Retrievers, as a group, are some of the easiest, least problematic free- whelpers there are but problems do happen.

Breeding can be a complete joy but it can also suck BIG time.

If your not financially and emotionally prepared nor have the time IF things go in the toilet then don't do it.

Every breeding is a crap shoot. Good luck with your third BB.

Regards,
Kasomor

[The Watcher]

You might want to pet her first.
Oh, and a muzzle if she's a biter.

[Busterbrown]

What a rosey picture BB has painted of what to expect when breeding.:neutral: Your costs are off......litter reg. plus individual pup reg. of those 12 pups is $273 not $21. and you have missed a number of things

I'm not saying every breeding is a bust. That is ridiculous.
What I did say is....

Retrievers, as a group, are some of the easiest, least problematic free- whelpers there are but problems do happen.

Breeding can be a complete joy but it can also suck BIG time.

If your not financially and emotionally prepared nor have the time IF things go in the toilet then don't do it.

Every breeding is a crap shoot. Good luck with your third BB.

Regards,
Kasomor


I am not trying to paint a rosey picture. I am trying to bring some balance to the post. Those were the facts around two seperate litters. Problem free litters do happen more often than not. Just the facts.

[labguy]

Excellent point Debbie, Firwoodhills dogs were bred from two talented dogs that would not likely pass the breeding tests that the experts here would require,

Not exactely true about being able to pass breeding tests..........."Dino" is CNM and EIC clear, CERF'd and OFA'd for both hips and elbows.

Therefore, it's probably safe to assume that Dino's parents and his parents parents, must have been clean to throw a dog like that even though there was limited testing (for CNM and EIC) back then. :)

[Busterbrown]

You are right . It is safe to assume that the parents were clear of any hereditary health issues. That is my point, many breedings take place with only parents who are hip and elbow cleared by OFA. When Firwoodhill was produceing great field trial dogs there was no testing for EIC .His dogs seem to have worked out OK

[labguy]

When Firwoodhill was produceing great field trial dogs there was no testing for EIC .His dogs seem to have worked out OK

Sure they did but many did not work out. Now a days, with all these great genetic tests to help insure a healthy litter of pups.............. why not use them?

It would be like buying a used car and finding the tire pressure OK and then assuming the motor, transmission, brakes etc. etc. are good too. Car might be OK or it might not but if the tests are available why not use them????

I really don't understand why people are so reluctant to use these tests if they're available.......I think it's about being responsible. Just because "it's alway been done that way and it's worked out fine" doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

If everyone adopted that attitude we'd be riding to field trials in the back of a horse drawn cart............or worse yet, a donkey drawn cart.....with the dogs enclosed in a crab trap or a chicken cage. :)

Progress is not always a "bad thing". JMHO

[Lots'oLabs]

Excellent point Debbie, Firwoodhills dogs were bred from two talented dogs that would not likely pass the breeding tests that the experts here would require, yet they have produced some incredible dogs. Know anyone who has one?????????????
Good question, Ron, and one I've pondered over and over.
The Firwood Hills dogs were cerf'd and cleared for hips and elbows. EIC and CNM weren't an issue at that time.
All I can speak for is our 2 who would be 3rd. generation and they are CNM and EIC clear.
The Firwoodhills line is getting a little slim. As far as I know there is just Bo (MH's dog) and Dino (JC's dog). Wiccan is out of Bo and she now 8 yrs. old. It would be interesting to know if there were some out there who were never trialed but were producing. Dino has sired 3 litters and JC has one as does JS. Both pups are pretty impressive.

[guntech]

Now that Kasomor has scared the crap out of everyone reguarding retriever breeding, I will paint the picture that transpired with a breeding we have done 3 times. Both of the sire and Dam have all of the required health clearances and have very nice pedigrees. Both are chocolate The first litter they had produced 12 very healthy chocolate pups. The cost associated with the litter as follows

Tattoo -$15
Dew Claw- $15
CKC Reg Fee- $21.00 for litter
First Shots- unkown
My Stud Fee- $1000

These pups were sold for $1000 and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We kept a pup out of that litter and she is a beauty.Do the math
We repeated the breeding again with this liiter having 9 great chocolate pups and all were sold well before 7 weeks. We have just repeated the breeding again . I cannot figure out how they did this with-out Kasomors advise
For every horror story you here about with a litter of pups there are 100`s of no issue litters

Did you view the pedigrees of these dogs and view the X rays or statements from vets about how their hips are?

Did you have the purchasers sign a no breeding contract without X rays being taken and good hips the qualifying factor?

If you did not you are simply one of the irresponsible 'breeders' out there not caring about the breed but the dollars.

Any dog without good hips should never be bred. An X ray by a qualified vet is the only way to determine it.

[labguy]

Dino has sired 3 litters and JC has one as does JS. Both pups are pretty impressive.

Even little "Crash"???? "Impressive"? :-D:-D:-D

[Lots'oLabs]

Sorry Evolution.
My original statement on this thread was directed to you, but also includes the sentiments of 835.

[Lots'oLabs]

Even little "Crash"???? "Impressive"? :-D:-D:-D
Especially Little Crash!!:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Busterbrown]

Did you view the pedigrees of these dogs and view the X rays or statements from vets about how their hips are?

Did you have the purchasers sign a no breeding contract without X rays being taken and good hips the qualifying factor?

If you did not you are simply one of the irresponsible 'breeders' out there not caring about the breed but the dollars.

Any dog without good hips should never be bred. An X ray by a qualified vet is the only way to determine it.

In order to register a dog with the CKC both parents need to be hip certified. A non breeding claus is standard with selling a pup until they have their hips certified,at which time the breeder removes the claus The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals is the gold standard for hip evaluation. Perhaps some homerwork on your part is in order. I own the sire of these litters and have seen the dams ofa rating. Again do some homework

[Busterbrown]

Good question, Ron, and one I've pondered over and over.
The Firwood Hills dogs were cerf'd and cleared for hips and elbows. EIC and CNM weren't an issue at that time.
All I can speak for is our 2 who would be 3rd. generation and they are CNM and EIC clear.
The Firwoodhills line is getting a little slim. As far as I know there is just Bo (MH's dog) and Dino (JC's dog). Wiccan is out of Bo and she now 8 yrs. old. It would be interesting to know if there were some out there who were never trialed but were producing. Dino has sired 3 litters and JC has one as does JS. Both pups are pretty impressive.

I am sure they will turn out to be great dogs. I guess with a little digging we could find out. I often wonder how many potential great working dogs are just sitting on someones couch somewhere!!!!!!! (not that there is anything wrong with that)

[guntech]

In order to register a dog with the CKC both parents need to be hip certified. A non breeding claus is standard with selling a pup until they have their hips certified,at which time the breeder removes the claus The Orthopedic Foundation for Animals is the gold standard for hip evaluation. Perhaps some homerwork on your part is in order. I own the sire of these litters and have seen the dams ofa rating. Again do some homework

I don't need to do any homework let alone again... what I said stands.

Any dog without good hips should never be bred. An X ray by a qualified vet is the only way to determine it.

Now that you have clarified that what you do is basically what I said you should do, you obviously are not just another irresponsible 'breeder'.

It's been 40 years since I was involved in registered dog breeding...

[Busterbrown]

I am sure not much has changed in forty years!!!! There still are some outstanding breeders of working dogs and some that are not. We have bred our males to only approved bitches that have all required health clearances, That includes eyes, hips, elbows and EIC non-carrier. What the owner of the dam does with the pups is out of our control. I do not believe any have tested the pups for EIC but all are registered and have a non-breeding clause until the pup gets hips done. This is usually at 22-24 months. Just curious as to what the health clearances requirements were 40 years ago?

[yukon john]

You might want to pet her first.
Oh, and a muzzle if she's a biter.

Not only is bestiality illegal its also just plain wrong!!!:-D:-D:-D sorry couldnt resist.

[guntech]

I am sure not much has changed in forty years!!!! There still are some outstanding breeders of working dogs and some that are not. We have bred our males to only approved bitches that have all required health clearances, That includes eyes, hips, elbows and EIC non-carrier. What the owner of the dam does with the pups is out of our control. I do not believe any have tested the pups for EIC but all are registered and have a non-breeding clause until the pup gets hips done. This is usually at 22-24 months. Just curious as to what the health clearances requirements were 40 years ago?

Hips were the biggest concern is all I remember. We had Golden Retrievers. My wife worked for a small animal vet which was a definite plus. She did all the 'work' with them. I hunted with them. Our male was much better than our bitch. Loose on the farm he came back more than once with a duck he caught down on the wetland. When released the ducks flew back. We had non breeding contracts with spaying/neutering required. Breeding contracts required the hip check...

[BCLongshot]

I wouldn't I think it's kinda discusting but u could get a dog to breed your dog.

[Kasomor]

In order to register a dog with the CKC both parents need to be hip certified.

Ummmm.....don't know where your getting this information from but the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) requires NO health certifications of any kind what so ever to register ANY dog or their progeny.

A dog can be a complete medical mess, have every known genetic disease there is and still be CKC registered.

The CKC does NOT police the health status of any CKC registered breeding dog, nor any other dog registered by any other official body, (ie AKC) nor the resulting offspring.

Regards,
Kasomor

[guntech]

Ummmm.....don't know where your getting this information from but the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) requires NO health certifications of any kind what so ever to register ANY dog or their progeny.

A dog can be a complete medical mess, have every known genetic disease there is and still be CKC registered.

The CKC does NOT police the health status of any CKC registered breeding dog, nor any other dog registered by any other official body, (ie AKC) nor the resulting offspring.

Regards,
Kasomor

That also is how I remember it... it really is the responsibility of the breeder on the quality of what gets registered. There are many breeder who will register anything...

[Busterbrown]

[quote=labguy;617388]Sure they did but many did not work out. Now a days, with all these great genetic tests to help insure a healthy litter of pups.............. why not use them

I am not suggesting not to use the current tests available to ensure a healthy litter. I am saying that it has happened for many many years and continues to happen today. What % of litters do you think are now tested for EIC? This was NEVER done 10 years ago. In a performance breeding it is now the norm
When you are going to invest thousands of hours in training and trialing a retriever it only makes sense to get the healthiest dog possible. No one wants to get two years into a dog and have it un-fit for competition. It is understood that a carrier should not be bred to another carrier

[Lots'oLabs]

[quote=labguy;617388]Sure they did but many did not work out. Now a days, with all these great genetic tests to help insure a healthy litter of pups.............. why not use them

I am not suggesting not to use the current tests available to ensure a healthy litter. I am saying that it has happened for many many years and continues to happen today. What % of litters do you think are now tested for EIC? This was NEVER done 10 years ago. In a performance breeding it is now the norm
When you are going to invest thousands of hours in training and trialing a retriever it only makes sense to get the healthiest dog possible. No one wants to get two years into a dog and have it un-fit for competition. It is understood that a carrier should not be bred to another carrier
That's my belief too. We have a responsibility to ensure that the breed is protected from genetic diease, but also I train 4-5 hrs 5 times weekly. It's a huge investment in my time. Then when the season starts the cost of entries, travel, and RV's really seals our dedication to the sport.
That's why I would put the greatest amount of confidence in a breeder who only breeds their bitches when they want a dog for themselves. You can be sure they have given their choices full consideration for getting the best possible pups.

[Busterbrown]

We have used the same idea for our last two males. We took a dog from a breeder who owned the dam and wanted a pup for themselves. You are certain then that they have spent a hugh amount of time and effort ensuring the best match possible. How do you find 4-5 hours a day to train!!!!!!!!!!!! You need a job woman!!

[Lots'oLabs]

We have used the same idea for our last two males. We took a dog from a breeder who owned the dam and wanted a pup for themselves. You are certain then that they have spent a hugh amount of time and effort ensuring the best match possible. How do you find 4-5 hours a day to train!!!!!!!!!!!! You need a job woman!!
Okay:wink:
So I exagerate a little. We train 4 days with our training group and then we do drills or blinds on our own as we feel they are needed. But it's still a heck of a lot of time.
Being out there on sunny days like today make it all worthwhile!

[Islandeer]

Lady with lotsa,

You do in fact have a job, which you do with style, grace,and humour each day.

Now can I have some more pork loin chops? :confused: