draw optimization

[ROM]

Hi Folks:

I would like to ask your advise. Me and 2 friends have never put in for a moose draw. We want to this year and we plan on hunting together. My question is this: How do we optimize our draw opportunities over the next few years?

If we all went in for a shared hunt would that not diminish our odds next year as apposed to us all putting in individual? I like the idea of all of us getting a tag, and 1 animal would be plenty between the three of us, but not at the cost of future hunting opportunities due to all of us having reduced odds.

Your thoughts on strategy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

R

[bozzdrywall]

well last year was the first year in 5 years that my group got a moose draw. We applie to the same area every year. Last year was our lucky year. We did not take a moose but thats another story. So if i could do it all over i would still go for the shared hunt. There are many other chances to hunt big game in this province to take advantage of. Good luck with your draw

[hunter1947]

If me I would get someone ells that would put in for your shared hunt that was not interested on going on this hunt same goes for your partner ,if you and the friend that does not want to go on this moose hunt get picked you are allowed to go on your own and take a partner with you if you like ,but then only you are allowed to take the moose to fill your quot ,not your buddy ,if there is a season open for a muture bull or spike fork then your buddy can take a moose as well ,when a shared hunt party gets picked any of the party are allowed to shoot this moose till the qote is filled from your hunting party.

If ether one of the two parties get picked the one party that did not get picked will not have his or her odds reduced for the following years LEH draw..

[MuleyMadness]

Reduction of odds is true, but a way to alleivate that a bit is to add a new partner to your group who hasn't won in the last 3 years. At least that group member doesn't have any reduced odds. As well remember that in a shared hunt you are all shooters...in individual draws only the LEH holder is the shooter, anyone else taking an animal is just a poacher in the eyes of the law, and tagging it on someone else's tag doesn't make it any better. I would have to check, but I do believe that even individual hunters who get drawn have their odds reduced next year, so putting in solo may not make any different as far as future years anyways. That being said, if you are committed to moose hunting, you can always go somewhere that has plentiful animals and an open season if your draw is unsuccessful.

[behemoth]

It's hard to get a tag. Put everything you've got every year. Be thankfull when (if) you get one.

[mxracer328]

ive got drawin in a shared hunt the last 3 years in a row, i am a cow killin machine!!!! i put in with earl (an old fellow) and either my dad, or someone else in our group. if its your first year i would say your odds are pretty good, i got my a draw my first time and so did my mom.

[Geo.338]

Look for the absolute lowest odds areas and put in for there .We have success in the LEH draws every year .We usually get one or two moose between the three of us wich is plenty .

The lowest odds areas are usually remote and access can be an issue .
Good luck !

[Moose Guide]

Reduction of odds is true, but a way to alleivate that a bit is to add a new partner to your group who hasn't won in the last 3 years. At least that group member doesn't have any reduced odds. As well remember that in a shared hunt you are all shooters...in individual draws only the LEH holder is the shooter, anyone else taking an animal is just a poacher in the eyes of the law, and tagging it on someone else's tag doesn't make it any better. I would have to check, but I do believe that even individual hunters who get drawn have their odds reduced next year, so putting in solo may not make any different as far as future years anyways. That being said, if you are committed to moose hunting, you can always go somewhere that has plentiful animals and an open season if your draw is unsuccessful.

the regs state that if even one member in the group has been drawn in the previous 3 years, the whole group has reduced odds! choose areas with low odds , my group has been drawn 3 out of 5 years

[bforce750]

I heard from shady sources,you make your wife,sister,inlaws take the core program and put in with new recruits every year in a group hunt.This will maximize your odds :biggrin:,this will also help with new hunter recruitment.

[landphil]

Hi Folks:

I would like to ask your advise. Me and 2 friends have never put in for a moose draw. We want to this year and we plan on hunting together. My question is this: How do we optimize our draw opportunities over the next few years?

If we all went in for a shared hunt would that not diminish our odds next year as apposed to us all putting in individual? I like the idea of all of us getting a tag, and 1 animal would be plenty between the three of us, but not at the cost of future hunting opportunities due to all of us having reduced odds.

Your thoughts on strategy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

R

I usually put in for local draws and apply seperately from my partner, better odds seperately since a shared hunt is entered as one entry.This is wrong, see my next post for correct info! (meat will still be shared, and the guy with out a draw hunts GOS animals) Obviously this does not allow "partner" to hunt the draw animal, but less of an issue if you hunt (different animals) together with "partner". It also has less affect on next year as "partner" will not have reduced odds if I had a draw this year, and vice versa. To be perfectly clear, I AM NOT suggesting a group hunting off of one person's draw or tag, as this is both illegal and unethical! I hope this makes sense.

If you wanted to hunt only moose with your buddies in an area without GOS, the shared hunt works better, provided you get drawn. Of course, ALL of your odds will be lower for the next two years after a sucessful draw.


I heard from shady sources,you make your wife,sister,inlaws take the core program and put in with new recruits every year in a group hunt.This will maximize your odds :biggrin:,this will also help with new hunter recruitment.

It doesn't really increase your odds since a group/shared hunt is entered as one entry.Wrong again, for shared hunts, see my next post(see LEH synopsis) What it does is increase the quantity that can be harvested if you get a draw, so long as the hunters get out and cut their tags, which is a good thing for new recruits.:)

[ChilliwackWinchester]

It doesn't really increase your odds since a group/shared hunt is entered as one entry.(see LEH synopsis) What it does is increase the quantity that can be harvested if you get a draw, so long as the hunters get out and cut their tags, which is a good thing for new recruits.:)

I thought that a group hunt is put in as 1 entry, but with a shared hunt, it is entered as individual, and as long as any member of the goup is drawn, all members will be able to hunt under the alloted number of tags depending on the group size (1 for group of two, 2 for a group of 3 or more)?

[hunter1947]

If two put in for a shared hunt and your group gets picked you are allowed one animal ,both of you get picked but are allowed only one moose.

If 4 put in for your group and your group gets picked your group are allowed 2 moose.

Any of the shared hunt group that is involved in this hunt can shot the animal as long as you don't exceed your quot of moose..

[hunter1947]

the regs state that if even one member in the group has been drawn in the previous 3 years, the whole group has reduced odds! choose areas with low odds , my group has been drawn 3 out of 5 years


Thats correct http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[BiG Boar]

Has anyone in your group of three been drawn in the past 3 years?

[barry1974w]

get your group together, pick an area, apply every year, you should be able to get a draw (shared or otherwise), in a decent area every five to ten years. If you apply in areas with really good odds you can get a draw every year, but normally those areas are really hard to get to. Areas 7-40 and 7-41 are coming to mind, I think the odds are less than one to one, you apply, you get a tag.

[mxracer328]

Has anyone in your group of three been drawn in the past 3 years?

ive had a group of 3 been drawn 3 years ina row, hopefully 4 now

[j270wsm]

Reduction of odds is true, but a way to alleivate that a bit is to add a new partner to your group who hasn't won in the last 3 years. At least that group member doesn't have any reduced odds. As well remember that in a shared hunt you are all shooters...in individual draws only the LEH holder is the shooter, .

Not completely true, If you add somone new to your group they have reduced odds aswell, everyone in the group is supposed to buy a tag.

I have been drawn twice in the last 4 years, once was with my dad and the last time it was with my dad and brother in law.

I called the number in the LEH papers and asked about the reduced odds, here is what I was told when you submit your leh the computer automaticially gives you a random 6 digit number, the lower the number the better chance you will be drawn. If you have been drawn and apply again you get red flagged and moved in to a new colum. When they start drawing numbers from the (drawn) colum the lowest number gets drawn then the computer skips the next 3 numbers and the 4th gets drawn. That is what the guy told me is done to achieve the reduced odds, he also told me that putting in a 4 person shared hunt gives you the best odds, because you might just be spaced out enough that one gets pulled again.
hope fully I was able to explain it well enough.

[landphil]

I thought that a group hunt is put in as 1 entry, but with a shared hunt, it is entered as individual, and as long as any member of the goup is drawn, all members will be able to hunt under the alloted number of tags depending on the group size (1 for group of two, 2 for a group of 3 or more)?

I looked it up and whala... You are indeed correct!


Those who apply for a Limited Entry Shared
Hunt will have an advantage in the draw over

a single applicant.

The applications for each


member of the group will enter the draw as single


applications, but if any member of the group is

drawn, then the entire group will be drawn.

Therefore a group of four applicants has four
chances to be drawn.This differs from the way
group applications for other hunts are handled. For
all Group Hunts other than the Limited Entry
Shared Hunts, the applications enter the draw as a
single application, and therefore a group has only
one chance to be drawn.
The enhanced odds system, described in the
“EXPLANATION OF THE DRAW” section, applies
to all Moose hunts, so people who were previously
drawn for Moose will have their chances reduced.








If any member of a group applying for a Shared


Hunt has been drawn for a Moose in the

previous three years, then the entire group

will be treated as previously successful and
their odds will be reduced.









Sorry for the misleading info folks!



The way I posted still gives better overall odds over the years since the the "partner" does not get his odds reduced the next year, but not as convenient as a shared hunt either. It also could allow both guys to draw for a moose each in the same year, which could be good or bad, depending on how hungry the freezer is, and of course will end up with both guys having reduced odds the following 2 years

[ramron]

If three people apply you get two moose.

[MuleyMadness]

the regs state that if even one member in the group has been drawn in the previous 3 years, the whole group has reduced odds! choose areas with low odds , my group has been drawn 3 out of 5 years

I believe the language acutally states that that successful particular member of the group has reduced odds so by extension the entire group has reduced odds, but still better than if everyone had been drawn in the previous few years...at least that's how I understood it, but again I may be wrong, as I'm not a government lawyer writing things to be as ambiguous as possible.

[bforce750]

If three people apply you get two moose.

yes you do indeed

[bforce750]

yes you do indeed

thats if one of you get drawn

[Moose Guide]

I believe the language acutally states that that successful particular member of the group has reduced odds so by extension the entire group has reduced odds, but still better than if everyone had been drawn in the previous few years...at least that's how I understood it, but again I may be wrong, as I'm not a government lawyer writing things to be as ambiguous as possible.

read landphils reply above and you will see the actual wording, I believe you are wrong, either way there are reduced odds

[Moose Guide]

Has anyone in your group of three been drawn in the past 3 years?

Our group of four had reduced odds in 08 (one of us was drawn in 07 and one in 06) and in 09(3 of us were drawn in 08) if you were asking me.

[moosehunter21]

8 draws in 9 years for me, I dont believe in reduced odds.

[landphil]

8 draws in 9 years for me, I dont believe in reduced odds.
I think I'd start believing in 649 tickets!:mrgreen:

[moosehunter21]

I think I'd start believing in 649 tickets!:mrgreen:
Oh I do invest in em. but the odds of where i put in are always really really low like 1.1:1 one year it was 0.9:1 odds. Auto win!!!:-D:mrgreen:

[quadrakid]

I don,t mean to be rude to anyone in particular but here is an observation. It seems like quite a few people can,t read the leh regulations and understand them. I just wonder if the same number of people can,t read and understand the hunting regulations?

[MuleyMadness]

Well the problem quadraKID is that a lot of the LEH is ambiguous and at times difficult to understand, as are the regs...I am someone who reads detailed technical specifications, engineering documents, and extremely complex building plans and still sometimes think...'WTF is that supposed to mean,' when looking at the LEH (and would LOVE more detailed boundary lines in the regular synopsis). It's not an intelligence or education thing in most cases (I myself have a EE degree and run a large, very successful industrial construction company, and still on occasion have issues with what they are saying). Like I mentioned above I thought the LEH (and I HAVE read them) were stated one way (and maybe it was wishful thinking because of 3 local draws in 3 years) but in all honesty the more I read them it looks like they mean what most of the others think. It's kind of the point of a forum, for people to converge and discuss things to see where they may misunderstand something or for them to ask questions of their peers.

[BiG Boar]

I called the number in the LEH papers and asked about the reduced odds, here is what I was told when you submit your leh the computer automaticially gives you a random 6 digit number, the lower the number the better chance you will be drawn. If you have been drawn and apply again you get red flagged and moved in to a new colum. When they start drawing numbers from the (drawn) colum the lowest number gets drawn then the computer skips the next 3 numbers and the 4th gets drawn.

This I would take to mean that if there are 200 applicants and there are 50 tags to be given out, and 3/4 of the applicants have reduced odds (ie. second column) then no one with reduced odds could win. The odds on this draw would be 4:1. And the entire first column would have taken the tags before they could move to the next column. Am I right so far? Okay, so indulge me here.

For the last 3 years the same 200 people have applied. And 150 tags were given out to the people with non reduced odds, over that 3 years. Leaving roughly 50 who have remained undrawn, with full odds.

The next year those 50 people without reduced odds should be in the first column, and get filled. However that would mean that there is no sence putting in for a draw with greater than 4:1 odds if you have won in the last 4 years, (unless, the number of tags goes up, or the applicants should drop off).

Does this make sence?

[ChilliwackWinchester]

The thing is that your odds are not reduced for just the following year, but for the following 2 years. I believe it is something like a 50% reduction in odds the following year after success, and a 25% reduction the year after that. (I could be wrong on the percentages).
Also... a reduction does not mean that you can't be draw, it just means that you are less likely. So there could be situations where someone without reduced odds does not get drawn, and someone with reduced odds does. Your odds are reduced to give an advantage to those who were not successful the previous year, but it is not an absolute.