Interesting comment from a famous hunter

[eaglesj]

Hey guys,

I just got back from my Bison hunt, and was excited to hear how Jim Shockey did as he left just after we did. Here's an interesting blog that he put about the experience.

http://www.jimshockey.com/Blog/news_detail.aspx?n=188

He claims there was a lot of poaching going on, which doesn't surprise me because I heard that one group only had one tag, but managed to shoot two bison. They were then trying to find someone in the lodge to claim their second bison. It is too bad that people do this, yet then complain that there are not any more tags put out.

[Cariboospeed]

Some things don't change. I remember when word filtered down that there was Bison to be found near Pink Mountain, iirc it was the first year of leh for them. Seemed like everybody and their dog grabbed an indian and headed up. I knew of no less than a dozen that were brought back, and none tagged.

[Gateholio]

'Kinda strange- He keeps talking about "so many resident hunters" but isn't he a resident hunter?

[#1fishslayer]

He should keep those kind of things to himself.

[Hank Hunter]

Too funny. pretty sure no one goes up there alone to fill their tag and I am sure that Mr Shockey was not alone chasing bison all over the place. I wonder if he stopped and asked everyone if they had a tag or how he knew who did and who didnt

[Big7]

'Kinda strange- He keeps talking about "so many resident hunters" but isn't he a resident hunter?
Gate...of course he is, but...he's "Jim Shockey" whoopidydoo!!!

[r106]

Do they have shared hunts for bison? Or people go with there buddy to help out and hunt wolfs until a bison is shot ?
________
Vaporizer Review (http://vaporizers.net/)

[Everett]

Went a read a bunch of his Blog man what a whiner. Resident my ass I wonder if he even meets the standard of resident hunter with all that jet setting. Of course he coudn't get a Bison so it had to be Residents poaching. Well I for one will not be buying anything endorsed by this great white resident hunter.

[d6dan]

Do they have shared hunts for bison? Or people go with there buddy to help out and hunt wolfs until a bison is shot ?
No shared hunts on Bison. Unless your rich and use a Outfitter, then you can have a shared hunt:wink:

[Deadshot]

I hope with all that poaching goin on, he Observed,Recorded & Reported.
I wouldn't expect anything less from him.:rolleyes:

[Buckmeister]

'Kinda strange- He keeps talking about "so many resident hunters" but isn't he a resident hunter?

Of course he is, he even admits it in his blog, in a round about way.

"There are 50 or 60 resident tags. I have one and Tanya has one."

So Tanya is a resident too.

[Buckmeister]

Lets forget for a second that this is "JIM SHOCKEY" we are talking about, and instead, put yourself or your hunting buddy into this situation. If all that was reported was true, you or your buddy would probably be just as ticked off, and I'm sure most people on this sight would sympathize with you. I guess I'm trying to understand what people have against JS. Maybe it boils down to jealousy? I wonder how many people on this site wish they could do what he does for a living?

[todbartell]

sounds like a bit of a stretch, to make for a better read on his blog. Easy to blame a poor day of hunting on herds of resident poachers :mrgreen:

[mfarrally]

Lets forget for a second that this is "JIM SHOCKEY" we are talking about, and instead, put yourself or your hunting buddy into this situation. If all that was reported was true, you or your buddy would probably be just as ticked off, and I'm sure most people on this sight would sympathize with you. I guess I'm trying to understand what people have against JS. Maybe it boils down to jealousy? I wonder how many people on this site wish they could do what he does for a living?

Ya he has the best job in the world. If he comes across on his dvd's as a bit cocky you got to remember his clients are americans and europeans and they eat that stuff up! I wish i could hunt where he does and as much as he does

[troutseeker]

I think that Jim's HBC account is: TheWalkingSlaugtherHouse:-0...

[BiG Boar]

Wierd that he couldnt get a bison. I would have thought he would have had access to all kinds of stuff to put him right where they are. Did they both win there tags? What would be the odds of that eh? Maybe the GO in the area said hey come up with your daughter who won a tag and I will give you one of ours if you can get one while youre up there with her. I think that he must get all kinds of offers from around the world to come and hunt there animals at next to no cost. Big publicity if they film the hunt.

[Prowler]

Am I jelouse? You bet, I would love that gig. Is that why I cant stand the guy? Not at all... I watch a LOT of hunting shows, and his is not on the list. I record hours of hunting shows every week, but JSHA was canceled long ago.. I have never seen anybody more arogant, or full of himself in my life. In my opinion, his prodige, Cody Robins has the best show on TV, and is more than humble in every way. The kind of guy I would like to spend some time in hunt camp with.. I wouldnt last 5 minutes in a hunt camp with Shockey.. I would be on "Hard Copy" or "current Affair" or something...:(

[Buckmeister]

Hey guys,

I just got back from my Bison hunt, and was excited to hear how Jim Shockey did as he left just after we did.

How did your hunt go eaglesj????

[Buckmeister]

I wouldnt last 5 minutes in a hunt camp with Shockey.. I would be on "Hard Copy" or "current Affair" or something...:(

That's the first good laugh I've had tonight...thanks :-D

[bridger]

i read the blog as well and was surprised he kept using the term residents when describing the other hunters in the area. I found that surprising as he was hunting on a resident leh tag. As far as the claim of a lot of poaching going on that is unsubstaniated and in my experience little evidence is available to sustantiate that claim. bison hunting in -35 degree weather is tough to do solo and requires the tag holder to have some help. the bison hunt has also turned into a great social event where friends can go and enjoy themselves. most non hunters i know that go on those trips take a rifle in case they run into a pack of wolves. I thought shockey's comments on his blog were from his outfitters perspective.

[sawmill]

I don`t know why so many guys think Shocky is the cats ass of hunting,sure he has a great job but I met him years ago up north and found him to be a pretentious dickhead.And for Christsake lose that friggen bandana!

[hunter1947]

When you are a world famous big game guide like he is ,you have to have to put big wording into place in order to be recognized.

[M.Dean]

If you had a Bison draw, would you header up to Pink Mnt alone? It's minus 25,you get on your sled and go hunt Buffalo, you down one 15 miles from camp, then what? If only the draw holder was allowed to hunt, you'd have dead hunters up there each year! Shame you didn't get a bull Jim, but I bet your camp had as many if not more people looking for your bull as the other camps! Hats off to all the ones that did endure the hard ships of hunting the Buffalo and were successful! To call all Residents Poachers could be a real deadly Career move I'd think. A smart man would some how recant on that statement!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A few yrs ago..... didn't he call all you 7B guys around Ft St John a bunch of hillbilly poachers:??? Rings a distant bell in my brain.

Sounds like there were too many people up there to make a good TV show:wink:.

SSS

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

reading his blog just boils my blood, he is just a poor sport! you have to do the work if you want to get your bison! over crowed hunting areas is nothing new to the resident hunter it is just a fact of life!!

BURNING SOME DVD'S NOW GOTTA GO!!!

[proguide66]

Am I jelouse? You bet, I would love that gig. Is that why I cant stand the guy? Not at all... I watch a LOT of hunting shows, and his is not on the list. I record hours of hunting shows every week, but JSHA was canceled long ago.. I have never seen anybody more arogant, or full of himself in my life. In my opinion, his prodige, Cody Robins has the best show on TV, and is more than humble in every way. The kind of guy I would like to spend some time in hunt camp with.. I wouldnt last 5 minutes in a hunt camp with Shockey.. I would be on "Hard Copy" or "current Affair" or something...:(
We have a BINGO !

I went up to the Yukon to make some shows with him a few yrs ago....after the first hunt I phoned the manager to ask to get my ASS OUTTA HERE....he tried to talk me into staying then asked me to call back ( sat phones) while he tried to get guides from other camps to trade spot with me...each one wouldnt do it and Cody said " you put me in camp with Jim and WE ARE DONE FOR GOOD" !.....end of story...........

[stitch]

'Kinda strange- He keeps talking about "so many resident hunters" but isn't he a resident hunter?


Lives in duncan.....that's about as resident as you can get

[Bowtime]

Like Bridger mentioned. "Sounds like his outfitter prospective." If I owned a territory anywhere in BC, there's a good chance I'd be voicing my opinion about resident hunters also.

[leadpillproductions]

Like Bridger mentioned. "Sounds like his outfitter prospective." If I owned a territory anywhere in BC, there's a good chance I'd be voicing my opinion about resident hunters also.

I agree but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things, That being said i have heard he is well hard to work with lol

[Hank Hunter]

Like Bridger mentioned. "Sounds like his outfitter prospective." If I owned a territory anywhere in BC, there's a good chance I'd be voicing my opinion about resident hunters also.


you mean like calling them all poachers?

[huntwriter]

We have a BINGO !

I went up to the Yukon to make some shows with him a few yrs ago....after the first hunt I phoned the manager to ask to get my ASS OUTTA HERE....he tried to talk me into staying then asked me to call back ( sat phones) while he tried to get guides from other camps to trade spot with me...each one wouldnt do it and Cody said " you put me in camp with Jim and WE ARE DONE FOR GOOD" !.....end of story...........

Funny thing I should come on here and read this first thing in the morning. I just come of the phone talking to a good friend and respected outdoor celebrity about doing some shows together next year. Among other things J.S. came up somehow in the conversation and my friend pretty much echoed what a few here have said. "It was among the worst experience I had in my career as far as working together with other outdoor professionals." Besides that my friend, who also used to outfit hunts and hunts with many outfitters each year, gave J.S. a very low ranking for customer service as an outfitter.

I personally never meet Jim. I ran into him on a show a few years back said hello and that was that. Then passed by his booth. Lots of potential customers standing around the booth and are totally ignored by the three staff members.

[leadpillproductions]

Has any one contacted threw his contact form , might be a way to voice disaproval . Just sent out one see if he replies

[tomahawk]

Wierd that he couldnt get a bison. I would have thought he would have had access to all kinds of stuff to put him right where they are. Did they both win there tags? What would be the odds of that eh? Maybe the GO in the area said hey come up with your daughter who won a tag and I will give you one of ours if you can get one while youre up there with her. I think that he must get all kinds of offers from around the world to come and hunt there animals at next to no cost. Big publicity if they film the hunt.

Not sure why you would think it "weird that he couldn't get a bison". It can be a tough hunt as Jim found out. Jim and Tanya got there LEH's like the rest of us. Tanya is a respected member of HBC, she happens to do the website for Jim and good on her, she is not Jim's daughter.

[tomahawk]

Has any one contacted threw his contact form , might be a way to voice disaproval . Just sent out one see if he replies

Several of us on HBC have sent emails to his site 3 or 4 days ago, nothing happened except he dropped one of his blogs off the site that was the most deflammatory.

[tomahawk]

Personally I think Jim needed an excuse to tell all his Website readers why he left the hunt, so he chose an incident that could have or could not have been poaching as his ticket out of the hunt without making himself as the reason why he jammed out.

I believe he either jammed out because of a lack of interest in the hunt or lack of big bulls roaming all over the place or it was too cold and tough for him to stick it out. Big bulls are not roaming freely in the valleys as a rule, they are high in the mountains and in the back out of the way valleys that get little or no pressure and he obviously wasn't there because he saw so many hunters that were spending their time hunting the herds of cows, calves and young bulls!!

[BearStump]

so the guy was in a pissy mood when he wrote on a blog. wooptydoooo! guess none of you guys do that eh? hahahaha.:mrgreen:
I'd be pissy too if I waited all year to go on a pretty remote bison hunt thinking that "theres only 50 draws given out so worst case scenario is still a good hunt" but when I get there theres hunters all over the fricken place.
eaglesj said in his origional post that there WAS poaching going on.


He claims there was a lot of poaching going on, which doesn't surprise me because I heard that one group only had one tag, but managed to shoot two bison. They were then trying to find someone in the lodge to claim their second bison. It is too bad that people do this, yet then complain that there are not any more tags put out.

I dont know that JS was calling out "resident hunters" and calling them all poachers.
Who really cares what he said anyway. I wish I had his job.

[Hank Hunter]

So to save face with his foriegn clients he slams B.C. resident hunters. what a turd

[Hank Hunter]

eaglesj said in his origional post that there WAS poaching going on.

not sure he said that exactly, maybe you should read his post again

[eastkoot]

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm180/duramaxx/eva-shockey.jpg

Yikes. Eva, wanna go hunting???

[Blainer]

Not sure why you would think it "weird that he couldn't get a bison". It can be a tough hunt as Jim found out. Jim and Tanya got there LEH's like the rest of us. Tanya is a respected member of HBC, she happens to do the website for Jim and good on her, she is not Jim's daughter.Good on ya Tomahawk.
A very successful hunter in her own right,and a very respected member of HBC from this member as well.
Good bull Tanya and another great accomplishment.

[Gateholio]

Well done Tanya!:-D

[338]

Its important not too forget that these hunting shows are so much more about the business than the hunting itself. Its a competitive market, and with new and different product airing every year its hard to keep your show new and fresh to compete. For me, getting an LEH bison tag and heading up to Pink Mountain, only to come home empty handed would be a little disappointing, but just to have the oppurtunity and hunt the area would be a thrill in its own right. A guy like Shockey needs to fill a tag like that on camera, because thats what gets ratings. Good for his client Tanya, she will remember that hunt for the rest of her life.

I have to say while I'm not a big fan, I do enjoy his moose hunt videos from his territory in the Yukon. I much rather enjoy the Primos hunting series of DVD's.

[huntwriter]

so the guy was in a pissy mood when he wrote on a blog. wooptydoooo! guess none of you guys do that eh? hahahaha.:mrgreen:


The difference is that Jim, unlike most hunters, in on public display so to speak and as such you have to be a bit more careful what you say and how you say it.
There are many issues that piss me of but when I write an article or column on my professional blog or for a magazine I have to choose my words carefully in order not to offend anybody and still get the message across .:wink:


Its important not too forget that these hunting shows are so much more about the business than the hunting itself. Its a competitive market, and with new and different product airing every year its hard to keep your show new and fresh to compete. For me, getting an LEH bison tag and heading up to Pink Mountain, only to come home empty handed would be a little disappointing, but just to have the oppurtunity and hunt the area would be a thrill in its own right. A guy like Shockey needs to fill a tag like that on camera, because thats what gets ratings. Good for his client Tanya, she will remember that hunt for the rest of her life.

Very true. The outdoor industry is one of the toughest places to do business. It's all about how much money a pro can generate for his sponsors. Fail to do that and you're out faster then you can turn around. For every professional there are 100 in the wings waiting to take your job away from you. Makes me laugh when some hunters think that our job is a dream come true. It's work, hard work, not a dream.

[shotgunjohn]

I would like to pass on that Tanya (who happens to be my wife) was very flattered to be mistaken for Jim's daughter.
As for Jim's comments on his blog personally I would say poaching was a strong word to use, but to put it in perspective there were things that happened while we were there.

There were two bison shot on ranch property , which according to the outfitter was not supposed to be allowed. Was this poaching? Apparantly they had paid the trespass fee so this may come down to the agreement between the native band and the outfitter. I don't know.

There was a group of seven guys spread out watching a large section of the main trail. They said they had one tag. Were six of them "wolf hunting"? I don't know but I think the guns they were carrying would have done a lot of damage to a wolf hide.

While we were stalking a herd of Bison a group of people opened fire on them. There were at least a dozen shots in this fusilade including what sounded like a semi auto be fired about as fast as the shooter could pull the trigger. There were at least three and maybe four guns.We were close enough to here them yelling about who was shooting at what animal. When we were leaving the area we heard four more shots followed by another then another. We ran into these guys as they were coming out and they said they had killed one buffalo. Maybe they were just really bad shots? I don't know.

What I do know is that for Tanya after waiting all these years for a draw it was dissappointing to see this behaviour. We did still manage to have a great time.

On another note, about Jim not sticking it out. He leads a very hectic life and had to leave for a scheduled hunt in Turkey for Ibex before christmas yet. Somewhere in there I think he was going to stop and say hello to his wife.

[tomahawk]

Good for his client Tanya, she will remember that hunt for the rest of her life.

I have to say while I'm not a big fan, I do enjoy his moose hunt videos from his territory in the Yukon. I much rather enjoy the Primos hunting series of DVD's.

Tanya was not his client, she had her own LEH and harvested a beauty of a bull on her own.

I love Jim's show, I PVR it every week and have 23 episodes in my library that I share with my grandson and other young eager hunters.

[338]

Tanya was not his client, she had her own LEH and harvested a beauty of a bull on her own.

I love Jim's show, I PVR it every week and have 23 episodes in my library that I share with my grandson and other young eager hunters.


sorry my mistake.......i meant to say employee

[338]

The outdoor industry is one of the toughest places to do business. It's all about how much money a pro can generate for his sponsors. Fail to do that and you're out faster then you can turn around. For every professional there are 100 in the wings waiting to take your job away from you. Makes me laugh when some hunters think that our job is a dream come true. It's work, hard work, not a dream.


After watching an epsode of Mike Waddels Bone Collector where he answered fan mail, I agree completely. Fans always write to him saying how lucky he is to do what he does. In the episode he showed how many days are spent on the road hunting, and how many of those are actually sucessful. Then the countless hours in the editing room putting together the episode, and the time spent on the road for promotions and appearance at different hunting shows. He claimed to maybe have 8 weeks a year to spend with the family.

It may seem like a dream, but it also seems like alot of hardwork.

[huntwriter]

After watching an epsode of Mike Waddels Bone Collector where he answered fan mail, I agree completely. Fans always write to him saying how lucky he is to do what he does. In the episode he showed how many days are spent on the road hunting, and how many of those are actually sucessful. Then the countless hours in the editing room putting together the episode, and the time spent on the road for promotions and appearance at different hunting shows. He claimed to maybe have 8 weeks a year to spend with the family.

It may seem like a dream, but it also seems like alot of hardwork.

I went out of filming at the right time when it all became about money and not hunting.

A very good friend of mine just recently retired. He was an outdoor writer, seminar speaker, outfitter and video producer. He said that he in all those years missed every birthday of his children, every wedding anniversary. Missed the graduation of his children and many a Christmas.

Some people, he said, called me a bad father and husband for giving hunting more priority than the family. "Hunting pays miserably. After all the expenses there is not much left. I had to give my family a roof over the head, put food on the table, provide for education and health care. If you work in the hunting industry you can't to that by only working four days a week for eight ours each day. We do not have employee benefits, paid vacation, holidays and sick days off.

That doesn't sound like a dream to me.
Many years ago I too wanted to live the dream but like anybody else that did, I quickly realized it is hard work.
I get paid less now then when I did video making and shows but I have more freedom to say and do what I want without sponsors and producers breathing down my neck. Above all I can do what I never could after videos and shows became all about money. I can pass along knowledge and help hunters to become better through my articles, seminars and courses. It's still hard work though.:)

[dino]

I met the man and had a chat with him "not about hunting" It went on for about 15 minutes before I had to walk away. I was informed later on who he was, and felt like "who cares".

[Prowler]

A very good friend of mine just recently retired. He was an outdoor writer, seminar speaker, outfitter and video producer. He said that he in all those years missed every birthday of his children, every wedding anniversary. Missed the graduation of his children and many a Christmas.

Some people, he said, called me a bad father and husband for giving hunting more priority than the family.

Sorry but I would have to agree with "Some people"

[huntwriter]

Sorry but I would have to agree with "Some people"

Maybe because you do not know what it takes to make living, not just surviving, in this business.:wink:

[Prowler]

Maybe because you do not know what it takes to make living, not just surviving, in this business.:wink:

Maybe you are mistaken....
I know what it takes to be a father / husband / professional outdoorsman..

[huntwriter]

Maybe you are mistaken....
I know what it takes to be a father / husband / professional outdoorsman..

Hired or freelance? The two are very different in regard of what you are left with at the end of the month and the working hours/days that need to be put in. There is also a huge difference between America and Canada. In America you have to pay for the education of the kids, I mean everything not just the material, and America does not have a free national health care system either. These and other differences, like much higher taxes and public liability insurance rates for outfitters/guides, need to be considered to make a living in some measure of comfort and financial security.

[tomahawk]

On another note, about Jim not sticking it out. He leads a very hectic life and had to leave for a scheduled hunt in Turkey for Ibex before christmas yet.

Fair enough but to quote Jim on his blog:

"We saw three cows, two calves and one 2-year-old male and that was it. They started running, and then some other hunters showed up that didn't have bison tags, but they were hard on the bison tails. They said they were six wolves, so it was kind of an unusual hunt.
Anyway I pulled the plug at that point. There was just too much poaching going on for my liking. So I left and we are on our way home."


That sure doesn't sound like he was leaving because of a very hectic life and hunting schedule.

[Lee]

Hell, his writing isn't even inspiring to read.

We hunt. They run. Other hunter hunt. Scare animal. Go home.

[Big7]

There is also a huge difference between America and Canada. In America you have to pay for the education of the kids, I mean everything not just the material, and America does not have a free national health care system either. These and other differences, like much higher taxes and public liability insurance rates for outfitters/guides, need to be considered to make a living in some measure of comfort and financial security.

Why do you think we pay taxes? If we don't pay for our kids education with our taxes...who does?!!!

[huntwriter]

Why do you think we pay taxes? If we don't pay for our kids education with our taxes...who does?!!!

In America paying your kids education is separate from the taxes you add another couple thousand dollars.:wink:

Give you an example. When I lived in America I made a lot more money than here in Canada but at the end of the year had less in my pockets.:wink: Nothing has changed in my lifestyle just the extra government taxes, education fees and health car expenses got less. A lot less.

[Barracuda]

I have lived in both places and gone to school in both .
In the US you have to make it a choice to put into your health and welfare .
That includes pvt education health etc and all the other important choices that you dont have to make in canada. they do have basic healthcare for those that dont wish to rise above the min and they do have public school for those that wish to go that route

In Canada it is dumbed up and nannied so the socially designed ordinary and average people can exist in their bubble .
Make no mistake we do pay for it either directly or indirectly in the form of taxes on everything.

[Prowler]

Huntwriter, you miss my point alltogether.. You say your friend missed EVERY kids birthday, aniversary, kids gradualtions, and many christmas?
Sounds a lot to me like he was considerably more wrapped up in HIS chosen lifestyle than he was in his family. The fact that he was surprised at people calling him a bad father is laughable... He did what he did because HE wanted to, regardless of what country he was doing it in, if it didnt afford him the time or money to be with his family, it was HIS own choice... Dont make enough money to be able to take time off to be with your family for IMPORTANT dates? Get a new job, or get better at the one you do, so you dont have to work at it 365... pretty simple...:confused:

[sawmill]

How come I`m 50 and my kids have been out of school for years and I still have to pay school taxes?
And what does this whole thing have to do with Shockey being an over rated dickhead?

[Prowler]

How come I`m 50 and my kids have been out of school for years and I still have to pay school taxes?
And what does this whole thing have to do with Shockey being an over rated dickhead?

Haha, Sawmill for Prime Minister!!!!:-D

[338]

I have a Shockey DVD of his african hunts. In one part he is hunting with a guide/friend of his for bull elephant. They see a few herds and manage to get scarily close to the herds, and some of the bulls in the herds. In one scene they are really close to a herd that is moving all around them, and try and get close to a bull that they claim is not legal. I guess for some exciting footage they try and see how close they can get to the bull. Well, I guess the bull felt they were a threat and charged. The guide had no choice but to shoot it. Then Shockey has the nerve to say that its sad when these things happen, and they had no choice. Well why would you try and get close if you decide its not legal?

[trigger]

Jim shockey is a clown. He's a hipocrit. He was the one poaching. He was hunting the bison with a muzzle loader. It does not produce enough energy at 100 meters to pass the bc regs. I have tried to figure different loads and in no way at all would he had enough. Maybe if he shot it at 25 yards. But the law states at 100 meters. It's a stupid law. But it's there itsstated clearly when you get your leh draw for the bison

[Prowler]

I have a Shockey DVD of his african hunts. In one part he is hunting with a guide/friend of his for bull elephant. They see a few herds and manage to get scarily close to the herds, and some of the bulls in the herds. In one scene they are really close to a herd that is moving all around them, and try and get close to a bull that they claim is not legal. I guess for some exciting footage they try and see how close they can get to the bull. Well, I guess the bull felt they were a threat and charged. The guide had no choice but to shoot it. Then Shockey has the nerve to say that its sad when these things happen, and they had no choice. Well why would you try and get close if you decide its not legal?

I saw that episode, and wondered the exact same thing...... That was Horrendouse....

[leadpillproductions]

Jim shockey is a clown. He's a hipocrit. He was the one poaching. He was hunting the bison with a muzzle loader. It does not produce enough energy at 100 meters to pass the bc regs. I have tried to figure different loads and in no way at all would he had enough. Maybe if he shot it at 25 yards. But the law states at 100 meters. It's a stupid law. But it's there itsstated clearly when you get your leh draw for the bison
if that s true way tooo funny:evil:

[300win]

Went a read a bunch of his Blog man what a whiner. Resident my ass I wonder if he even meets the standard of resident hunter with all that jet setting. Of course he coudn't get a Bison so it had to be Residents poaching. Well I for one will not be buying anything endorsed by this great white resident hunter.

Expensive whiner, his guided hunts are rediculously overpriced!!! If he didn,t get a bison it must be the resident hunters, LOL!!!!

[300win]

Sorry but I would have to agree with "Some people"

What:mrgreen:

[shotgunjohn]

Um they are not trying to get close to an elephant that is too small they are trying to spot the big bull they saw earlier. And if you just had your 10,000 dollar elephant hunt end because your PH had to shoot a young bull don't you think you might be just a little bummed?

[Prowler]

And if you just had your 10,000 dollar elephant hunt end because your PH had to shoot a young bull don't you think you might be just a little bummed?

Do you realy believe that JS paid for that?:confused:

[Will]

Jim shockey is a clown. He's a hipocrit. He was the one poaching. He was hunting the bison with a muzzle loader.

BINGO ! Good thing he didn't actually get a Bison or he'd be blogging about the poaching charges........

[338]

Um they are not trying to get close to an elephant that is too small they are trying to spot the big bull they saw earlier. And if you just had your 10,000 dollar elephant hunt end because your PH had to shoot a young bull don't you think you might be just a little bummed?


Your absolutely right, but they had time to put more distance between them and that illegal bull. He decided to get some money making footage instead.

I don't think JS pays for his hunts. JS is world reknown in the hunting community, and any guide would be glad to give him a free guided filmed hunt so their business can be associated with him and appear on tv.

[sawmill]

Um they are not trying to get close to an elephant that is too small they are trying to spot the big bull they saw earlier. And if you just had your 10,000 dollar elephant hunt end because your PH had to shoot a young bull don't you think you might be just a little bummed?

And why exactly would you want to shoot an elephant???????
I never could figure that shit out,how do you get 4 tons of meat home?And why kill some thing you ain`t gonna eat?I enjoy watching deer,elk moose,sheep,goat hunting but watching some asshole drop an elephant or rhino or hippo just doen`t do it for me.And don`t give me that crap about donating it to the local villagers.While you are at it you might as well give them some shiny mirrors and beads and axe heads.Oh not tobbaco,that`s bad.

[Prowler]

I agree on the big african game. Im not against anybody else hunting them, but its not in my future.. Theres to many animals left to hunt in North America...

[338]

And why exactly would you want to shoot an elephant???????
I never could figure that shit out,how do you get 4 tons of meat home?And why kill some thing you ain`t gonna eat?I enjoy watching deer,elk moose,sheep,goat hunting but watching some asshole drop an elephant or rhino or hippo just doen`t do it for me.And don`t give me that crap about donating it to the local villagers.While you are at it you might as well give them some shiny mirrors and beads and axe heads.Oh not tobbaco,that`s bad.


The same reason some people hunt Grizzly bear. For the trophy. How many hunters actually take a grizzly carcass out of the bush? At least those african hunts provide meat for locals, and employment as well. If a certain type of big game can withstand losing part of the population to hunting then whats wrong with that?

[huntwriter]

And why exactly would you want to shoot an elephant???????

Because you can and because there are to many elephants in most parts of Africa. Like any other wildlife elephants need to be managed. The meat is distributed among the villagers that is the law of the country. Elephant meat tastes very good and has a lot of nutrition.

[leadpillproductions]

Because you can and because there are to many elephants in most parts of Africa. Like any other wildlife elephants need to be managed. The meat is distributed among the villagers that is the law of the country. Elephant meat tastes very good and has a lot of nutrition.

plus they would be fun as hell to shoot

[eastkoot]

I would like to pass on that Tanya (who happens to be my wife) was very flattered to be mistaken for Jim's daughter.


No one said Tanya was Eva..

[todbartell]

Jim shockey is a clown. He's a hipocrit. He was the one poaching. He was hunting the bison with a muzzle loader. It does not produce enough energy at 100 meters to pass the bc regs. I have tried to figure different loads and in no way at all would he had enough. Maybe if he shot it at 25 yards. But the law states at 100 meters. It's a stupid law. But it's there itsstated clearly when you get your leh draw for the bison

good point. 50 cal's with 300-400gr bullets generally have 1400-1600 ft lbs energy @ 100 yards, far below the 2000 requires @ 100 meters.

I do not doubt a muzzle loader is not an effective tool on bison, but a law is a law. Shockey was obviously breaking BC game laws. Ironic that he joined all the other poachers :D

[leadpillproductions]

but was he useing a m- loader he has hunted with a rifle

[Gateholio]

How come I`m 50 and my kids have been out of school for years and I still have to pay school taxes?
?

How come I'm 41, never had any kids, and I've been paying school taxes for almost 20 years?:mrgreen:

[todbartell]

but was he useing a m- loader he has hunted with a rifle

possible, but when's the last time he shot something with a rifle?

ammunition to hunt bison must be constructed with
a 175 grain or larger bullet, which retains 2,712 joules
(2,000 ft lbs) or more energy at 100 m

I know he's probably not much of a gun buff, maybe he assumed his muzzleloader meets the minimum specs?

[Will]

I know he's probably not much of a gun buff, maybe he assumed his muzzleloader meets the minimum specs?
There was a comment made on another thread that he checked with TC about his particular load and they informed him he was okay.........???

Not sure though.......I asked on said thread for a ML load that generates 2000 ftlbs at a 100 meters ? No takers...:wink:

I don't think it's possible............

[Gateholio]

I recall an article a number of years back where Shockey shot a bison with a ML. Not sure if it was in BC or the law was in effect then,though.

[dana]

So are some saying Shockey barely pays the bills? LMAO! That is funny. You don't get a World Slam by just barely paying the bills. :)

When it boils down to it, Shockey used to be a good whitetail hunter. Then he became a good salesman and the rest is history.

I just got Wild TV last week and watching these new shows is rather interesting. Wondering why the market is so driven to sell $hit. Essentially every show is a giant ad. My son made a great observation. Aren't the commercials for selling stuff? Why do you need to spend 25 mins of your 30 min show selling $hit. I have to say from what I've seen thus far, Jim was one of the worst for lack of hunting content in his show. He was lucky to have 5 mins jammed in there that was actually hunting.

[d6dan]

possible, but when's the last time he shot something with a rifle?

ammunition to hunt bison must be constructed with
a 175 grain or larger bullet, which retains 2,712 joules
(2,000 ft lbs) or more energy at 100 m

I know he's probably not much of a gun buff, maybe he assumed his muzzleloader meets the minimum specs?

Apparently, Thompson Center contacted Jim and reasurred him the gun would be fine...:?

[huntwriter]

So are some saying Shockey barely pays the bills? LMAO! That is funny. You don't get a World Slam by just barely paying the bills. :)

When it boils down to it, Shockey used to be a good whitetail hunter. Then he became a good salesman and the rest is history.

I just got Wild TV last week and watching these new shows is rather interesting. Wondering why the market is so driven to sell $hit. Essentially every show is a giant ad. My son made a great observation. Aren't the commercials for selling stuff? Why do you need to spend 25 mins of your 30 min show selling $hit. I have to say from what I've seen thus far, Jim was one of the worst for lack of hunting content in his show. He was lucky to have 5 mins jammed in there that was actually hunting.

Nobody said Jim can just barely pay his bills.

You're right though its all about selling. I overheard one of my sponsors saying to a hopeful on a hunting show. "I don't care how many big bass you can catch or how many bucks you have killed. All I care about is if you can promote my products. If I want you to catch a big bass or kill a monster buck I can arrange that for you by tomorrow."

I am not a trophy hunter but I am a heck of a salesman and promoter and that is what the industry looks for. It's all about money, nowhere is that more evident then on a hunting or fishing show.

[todbartell]

Apparently, Thompson Center contacted Jim and reasurred him the gun would be fine...:?

all he would have to do is chronograph his load and run the ballistics in a program. ya might want to do that before the trip so you know you're up to snuff, instead of breaking the law

[gibblewabble]

I get waaaaaayyyyyyyy more entertainment on this site than I ever got from a hunting show. I have to say I have seen maybe 10 or 15 shows in my life. I would rather do my chores so I can get out there more......wish I could do that with this site though way tooooooo many hours sitting at the puter going over threads and not enough chores getting done. as for Shockey, used to like his magazine articles, used to.

[Barracuda]

there are so many things abut shockey that would not bode well with manly men or his mainstream hunting sponsors LOL!

[shotgunjohn]

all he would have to do is chronograph his load and run the ballistics in a program. ya might want to do that before the trip so you know you're up to snuff, instead of breaking the law


Jim has personal contact with the engineering staff at Thompson Center/ Smith and Wesson. Why is it such a stretch for you to believe that these folks who have been developing and advancing muzzleloader technology for years can't work up a high energy load? Read the thread that's been started to that affect.
Are you a ballistic engineer?
If not then you are not doing yourself any favours by making unfounded accusations on an internet forum.

[BimmerBob]

How come I'm 41, never had any kids, and I've been paying school taxes for almost 20 years?:mrgreen:

You are paying for YOUR education, the reason the price is so high is that you are paying off the interest that was built up over 20 years of non-productivity... :mrgreen:

And the crazy thing is that School Taxes are based upon your home ownership and location, if you were educated in an area other than where you live you don't even pay the right people back.

The people that figure out taxes are the least logical of the human race, they are politicians and lawyers so don't expect any logic in their decisions, just emotion...

[Will]

Jim has personal contact with the engineering staff at Thompson Center/ Smith and Wesson. Why is it such a stretch for you to believe that these folks who have been developing and advancing muzzleloader technology for years can't work up a high energy load? Read the thread that's been started to that affect.
Are you a ballistic engineer?
If not then you are not doing yourself any favours by making unfounded accusations on an internet forum.
I shot ML's for years...find me a load that will make 2000 ftlbs at 100 meters please.
Betcha can't :wink:

And nobody is really accusing anyone of anything....just curious as to what load would make the BC requirements...that's all.

[levind]

i'd like to welcome jim to the lovely world of your average hunter. guess its a bit different when you hunt in areas locals can't get into easily or at all. Its funny people think he is a great hunter even though there have been a few members here that have gotten there bison and that one dandy from a member can't remember who. to me he is spoiled. i'm sure there is a nice ranch some were he can get his monster bison on and it would probably stand still for that perfect shot of video footage lol.

as to the allegation of poaching didn't sound like it was reported or seen for that matter. If it was seen should have been reported but we don't need people talking badly of hunters and calling people poachers with out proof. this is a guy that always said hunters should stick together to not say anything to give hunting a bad name and ammunition to the anti hunters. guess he forgot about that!!!

[Fisher-Dude]

He's a member in good standing of that jackass organization, GOABC. Of course he wants to paint resident hunters as poaching slobs, he, like the rest of the GOABC, want you out of the bush so they can sell "quality experiences" to their foreign hunters.

Kiss my ass Shockey.

[killman]

I heard he was a member here as well.

[todbartell]

Jim has personal contact with the engineering staff at Thompson Center/ Smith and Wesson. Why is it such a stretch for you to believe that these folks who have been developing and advancing muzzleloader technology for years can't work up a high energy load? Read the thread that's been started to that affect.
Are you a ballistic engineer?
If not then you are not doing yourself any favours by making unfounded accusations on an internet forum.

I understand you have personal ties with Mr Shockey, and that`s ok but please try and open your eyes and realize that a 50 cal muzzleloader with a hot load, HOT load with a 300gr bullet does not meet the required 2000 ft lbs @ 100 meters for the legal requirements for a bison weapon. And seeing how he was hunting in -40c temps I am extremely confident his muzzle velocity would be much less than what they rate them at for specs.

[killman]

I missed something here, where does it say he was using a muzzleloader on his hunt? I see Tanya used a .338. By the way congrats Tanya.

[Will]

I missed something here, where does it say he was using a muzzleloader on his hunt? I see Tanya used a .338. By the way congrats Tanya.
He was carrying a Muzzleloader............confirmed by Tanya herself:wink:

[GoatGuy]

So are some saying Shockey barely pays the bills? LMAO! That is funny. You don't get a World Slam by just barely paying the bills. :)

When it boils down to it, Shockey used to be a good whitetail hunter. Then he became a good salesman and the rest is history.

I just got Wild TV last week and watching these new shows is rather interesting. Wondering why the market is so driven to sell $hit. Essentially every show is a giant ad. My son made a great observation. Aren't the commercials for selling stuff? Why do you need to spend 25 mins of your 30 min show selling $hit. I have to say from what I've seen thus far, Jim was one of the worst for lack of hunting content in his show. He was lucky to have 5 mins jammed in there that was actually hunting.

Hunting on TV is generally just a bunch of bullshit, like it is in many of the 'americanized' magazines. Very few hunting or fishing shows I've watched that are anything like the real thing - usually on private land/stocked water with some half-domesticated animal. Or a 'governors' permit for sheep, penned hunts, what have you. Most of it's all about the 'trophy', 'get out the tape' and on and on. One of my fav's is the 700 yard grizz kill, what's the point, really? Which part of 'hunting' did I miss in that hunting show?

Treestand location is one of my favorites - it's the most important part. It's funny, can't say I've had many deer come and sit under the stand and chow down - course I've never had a couple of 40 lbs bag of corn placed under it either and if I did the deer I hunt don't hang around the stink of a human too long. :roll: Although I think it would work well if I wanted to hunt cattle out of a treestand.

Most of the hunting shows miss the entire point of hunting. Enjoying the outdoors with friends and family, respecting wildlife, and maybe harvesting something. It's all about the kill.

[killman]

He was carrying a Muzzleloader............confirmed by Tanya herself:wink:

Oh, thanks.:-D

[Will]

Oh, thanks.:-D
I'm here to serve :twisted:

[killman]

I'm here to serve :twisted:

That's what I've heard.:mrgreen:

[Fisher-Dude]

So, whatdyall think, shall we get an investigation into Shockey's choice of weapon going through the CO Service? I've pasted the posts with the evidence of the witnesses who saw his choice of weapon into Word, so we don't have to worry about changed posts.

I think it's time for Shockey to prove to the CO Service that he wasn't poaching, which according to some very well-informed individuals on this website, will be difficult for Shockey to do.

[yukon john]

I recall an article a number of years back where Shockey shot a bison with a ML. Not sure if it was in BC or the law was in effect then,though.
I know shockey got a wood bison for his NA slam in the yukon and he used his muzzle loader

[30.06 Hunter]

So, whatdyall think, shall we get an investigation into Shockey's choice of weapon going through the CO Service? I've pasted the posts with the evidence of the witnesses who saw his choice of weapon into Word, so we don't have to worry about changed posts.

I think it's time for Shockey to prove to the CO Service that he wasn't poaching, which according to some very well-informed individuals on this website, will be difficult for Shockey to do.

I think that if people are already this bored so soon after the end of hunting season it is going to be a llloooonnnnggggg winter.
http://muzzleloadingbullets.com/muzzleloader_ballistics.html
At 100 yards ft lb energy is 1971 on this chart for a 340gr bullet and 110 gr powder. Found this out with a quick google.

[Gateholio]

I know shockey got a wood bison for his NA slam in the yukon and he used his muzzle loader

That's the one I read.:-D

[huntwriter]

So, whatdyall think, shall we get an investigation into Shockey's choice of weapon going through the CO Service? I've pasted the posts with the evidence of the witnesses who saw his choice of weapon into Word, so we don't have to worry about changed posts.

I think it's time for Shockey to prove to the CO Service that he wasn't poaching, which according to some very well-informed individuals on this website, will be difficult for Shockey to do.

Good luck with that. That has been tried elsewhere a few years back. The court declared the forum posts as "hearsay" and kicked the collected forum posts out, and quite rightly so.

[DV-67]

So, whatdyall think, shall we get an investigation into Shockey's choice of weapon going through the CO Service? I've pasted the posts with the evidence of the witnesses who saw his choice of weapon into Word, so we don't have to worry about changed posts.

I think it's time for Shockey to prove to the CO Service that he wasn't poaching, which according to some very well-informed individuals on this website, will be difficult for Shockey to do.

What good would this accomplish?

All it will do is tarnish hunting even more. And nothing will come of it.

[Bighorn hunter]

wouldn't he have had to kill a bison for it to be poaching? Maybe he was just using that particular gun for wolf hunting:)

[shotgunjohn]

As has already been stated here Jim was carrying a letter from the Thompson Center engineers stating the capabilities of his load. I'm sure the CO service would be much more interested in some of your level of expertice however.

[Bighorn hunter]

As has already been stated here Jim was carrying a letter from the Thompson Center engineers stating the capabilities of his load. I'm sure the CO service would be much more interested in some of your level of expertice however.


Don't remember reading that, thought in one of your or Tanya's post that he had consulted tc, not that he was carrying confermation:confused:

[Gateholio]

I'm sure the CO service would be much more interested in some of your level of expertice however.


All you need is a chronograph,weight and B.C. of the bullet to determine if it meets requirements. It's not a difficult formula.

[K-1]

As has already been stated here Jim was carrying a letter from the Thompson Center engineers stating the capabilities of his load. I'm sure the CO service would be much more interested in some of your level of expertice however.Since when did Thompson Center get to interpret B C hunting reg. to suit their clients.

[burger]

I would still ike to know what load it was as that might give people that would like to use a ML a chance to be able to meet the requirements.

[Fisher-Dude]

Well, here's the regulation, and the regulation states that it MUST be a centrefire rifle or a bow. Was he not, therefore, hunting illegally if he used a muzzleloader and not a centrefire rifle? All other game under the Wildlife Act Hunting Regulations specifies "rifle" or "weapon", whereas bison specifies "centrefire rifle" or "bow". I think this is the smoking gun!

Offence — weapons

17 (1) A person commits an offence where he hunts:

(r) bison with a weapon other than:
(i) a centrefire rifle and ammunition other than ammunition constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet which retains 2 712 joules (2 000 foot pounds) or more energy at 100 metres, or
(ii) a bow having a pull greater than 22.6 kg within the archer's draw length, an arrow greater than 26 grams in weight and a broadhead greater than 8.1 grams in weight and 2.2 cm in width at its widest point.

[30.06 Hunter]

Anyone ask Shockey what load he was going to use? And what it was capable of generating? Or is speculation enough to sic the CO's on him?

[leadpillproductions]

wouldn't he have had to kill a bison for it to be poaching? Maybe he was just using that particular gun for wolf hunting:)
too funny i was waiting for some one to figure that out good going bighorn

[Fisher-Dude]

wouldn't he have had to kill a bison for it to be poaching? Maybe he was just using that particular gun for wolf hunting:)


too funny i was waiting for some one to figure that out good going bighorn

No. Hunting includes pursuing or searching for. You don't have to fire a shot or kill anything to be hunting. The Regulation clearly states "hunt", not "kill".

[vortex]

This might be a stupid question but if a muzzle loader can produce the same ballistics as a centrefire rifle at those ranges, what is the point of using a ML? Why don't you just use a single shot such as a Ruger #1 so you still get the same sporting feeling of reloading one shell at a time? OR you could just put 1 shell at a time in a regular old bolt action...

[burger]

What other thread are people talking about and where did tanya??? state he used a muzzleloader?

[Fisher-Dude]

A muzzleloader is not considered a centrefire rifle, according to the CO Service. Therefore, you cannot hunt bison with a muzzleloader according to the Wildlife Act - Hunting Regulation. The discussion over the energy level is now a moot point.

Offence — weapons

17 (1) A person commits an offence where he hunts:

(r) bison with a weapon other than:
(i) a centrefire rifle and ammunition other than ammunition constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet which retains 2 712 joules (2 000 foot pounds) or more energy at 100 metres, or
(ii) a bow having a pull greater than 22.6 kg within the archer's draw length, an arrow greater than 26 grams in weight and a broadhead greater than 8.1 grams in weight and 2.2 cm in width at its widest point.

[d6dan]

What other thread are people talking about and where did tanya??? state he used a muzzleloader?

Look for thread: ta tonka x2 down, in the mainland section and you will find it..:)

[killman]

Call the Cavalry lets go get him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[30.06 Hunter]

LLLLLLOOOOOONNNNNGGGGGGG winter.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

well don't you think he should of consulted the co service instead of Thompson center fire!!! to make sure he was legal???

[30.06 Hunter]

well don't you think he should of consulted the co service instead of Thompson center fire!!! to make sure he was legal???

Do you know he did not?

[Fisher-Dude]

Do you know he did not?

If he had, he would have been told that a muzzleloader is not a centrefire rifle, and therefore illegal for bison. You see, I DID bother to call and ask. :wink:

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

thanks fisher dude beat me to it!!!

[30.06 Hunter]

If he had, he would have been told that a muzzleloader is not a centrefire rifle, and therefore illegal for bison. You see, I DID bother to call and ask. :wink:

I will ask again. How do you know he did not? As has been noted on this forum many times different CO's give very different answers.
There is no seperate muzzleloader section in the regs, only center fire and rimfire so by that the use of a muzzleloader for any game is illegal.

[gameslayer]

How come I'm 41, never had any kids, and I've been paying school taxes for almost 20 years?:mrgreen:

It's extra insurance that some of those kids will turn into health care professionals so they can take care of your sorry A-- in 30 years to give you a liver transplant after years of succusful hunting trip abuse :-D

[Fisher-Dude]

I will ask again. How do you know he did not? As has been noted on this forum many times different CO's give very different answers.
There is no seperate muzzleloader section in the regs, only center fire and rimfire so by that the use of a muzzleloader for any game is illegal.

You're wrong. Other big game species are not restricted to centrefire rifles, they are only restricted from rimfires and bows that don't meet energy requirements. Don't bother with the synopsis, it's ambiguous and states clearly that it is not the law, only a summary of the law. Read the Hunting Regulation section 17.1 of the legislation.

Offence — weapons

17 (1) A person commits an offence where he hunts
(a) with a rifle using
(i) a full metal jacketed non-expanding bullet, or
(ii) a tracer, incendiary, or explosive bullet,
(b) big game, other than lynx, bobcat or wolverine, with a rifle using a rimfire cartridge,
(c) with a shotgun using a tracer or incendiary shot shell,
(d) mountain sheep, mountain goat, elk, moose, caribou, bison or grizzly bear with a shotgun,
(e) deer, black bear, cougar, coyote, lynx, bobcat, wolverine or wolf with a shotgun
(i) less than 20 gauge, or
(ii) using a shot shell loaded with shot smaller than the shot size 1 Buck,
(f) game birds, other than turkey, grouse and ptarmigan, with a rifle,
(g) small game, game birds, lynx, bobcat, wolverine, mule (black-tailed) deer, white-tailed deer or fallow deer with a crossbow (except a compound crossbow) having a pull of less than 55 kg,
(h) big game, other than deer, lynx, bobcat or wolverine with a crossbow (except a compound crossbow)
(i) having a pull of less than 68 kg, or
(ii) having a bolt with a broadhead less than 2.22 cm at the widest point,
(i) with a compound crossbow having a pull of less than 45 kg at full draw,
(j) with a crossbow having a bolt weighing less than 16.2 g,
(k) with a bow having a pull of less than 18 kg within the archer's draw length,
(l) big game with a bow using an arrow with a broadhead less than 2.2 cm at the widest point,
(m) bear
(i) by placing bait, or
(ii) by using a dead animal or part of it as bait,
(n) migratory game birds by using a power boat, unless the boat is beached, resting at anchor or fastened within or tied immediately alongside of a fixed hunting blind,
(o) migratory game birds using
(i) a rifle or shotgun loaded with a single projectile,
(ii) any weapon other than a bow and arrow or a shotgun not larger than number 10 gauge, or
(iii) more than one shotgun unless each shotgun in excess of one is disassembled or unloaded and encased,
(p) waterfowl, coot or snipe while using shot other than non-toxic shot,
(q) turkey with a rifle using a centrefire cartridge,
(r) bison with a weapon other than
(i) a centrefire rifle and ammunition other than ammunition constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet which retains 2 712 joules (2 000 foot pounds) or more energy at 100 metres, or
(ii) a bow having a pull greater than 22.6 kg within the archer's draw length, an arrow greater than 26 grams in weight and a broadhead greater than 8.1 grams in weight and 2.2 cm in width at its widest point, or
(s) with a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand or that has a barrel less than 305 mm in length.
(2) A person who possesses shot, other than non-toxic shot, for the purpose of hunting waterfowl, coot or snipe, commits an offence.
(3) A person who hunts big game with a shotgun loaded with single-projectile ammunition is exempt from section 26 (1) (h) of the Wildlife Act.

http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/freeside/--%20w%20--/wildlife%20act%20%20rsbc%201996%20%20c.%20488/05_regulations/18_190_84%20hunting%20regulation/190_84_01.xml#section17

[Bighorn hunter]

This might be a stupid question but if a muzzle loader can produce the same ballistics as a centrefire rifle at those ranges, what is the point of using a ML? Why don't you just use a single shot such as a Ruger #1 so you still get the same sporting feeling of reloading one shell at a time? OR you could just put 1 shell at a time in a regular old bolt action...


Different placement in the record books

[Will]

http://www.handcuffwarehouse.com/common/images/products/large/SW1900.jpg
:oops::oops::oops:

[Fisher-Dude]

Throw away those keys Will!

[d6dan]

Hey Fisher-Dude, before we get too excited here, on page 6 of the LEH paper it says a "rifle" which produces...............etc. Is a Black powder classed as a Rifle?.. ( It does have rifling)

[30.06 Hunter]

There is no seperate muzzleloader section in the regs, only center fire and rimfire so by that the use of a muzzleloader for any game is illegal.
The bison reg merely states a mandatory weight and energy.

[Fisher-Dude]

Hey Fisher-Dude, before we get too excited here, on page 6 of the LEH paper it says a "rifle" which produces...............etc. Is a Black powder classed as a Rifle?..

Don't go by the synopsis. It's not the law. The only law that applies is the actual legislation itself.

[DV-67]

Once again......(Because nobody answered this)

What good would this accomplish?

Fisher-Dude, .............anyone??????

All it will do is tarnish hunting even more. And nothing will come of it.

[d6dan]

Gotcha!.. (r)(i)..

[Fisher-Dude]

There is no seperate muzzleloader section in the regs, only center fire and rimfire so by that the use of a muzzleloader for any game is illegal.
The bison reg merely states a mandatory weight and energy.

Can't you f'n read? Other big game species are NOT restricted from any weapon other than rimfire, underweight bows, and certain shotguns. Bison are restricted to centrefire rifles and bows.

Obviously, you have no experience interpreting and applying law/legislation.

Obviously, you're in love with Jim Shockey too.

[Fisher-Dude]

Once again......(Because nobody answered this)

What good would this accomplish?

Fisher-Dude, .............anyone??????

All it will do is tarnish hunting even more. And nothing will come of it.

Should we turn a blind eye to poaching just because it is someone famous? Does that make it okay? Not in my books. In fact, if anything, it can serve to dummy up closet poachers who think no one ever gets caught.

[30.06 Hunter]

Can't you f'n read? Other big game species are NOT restricted from any weapon other than rimfire, underweight bows, and certain shotguns. Bison are restricted to centrefire rifles and bows.

Obviously, you have no experience interpreting and applying law/legislation.

Obviously, you're in love with Jim Shockey too.

LOLOL. Going with the personal attacks now huh?
I guess only your interpretation is the correct one?
I enjoy his show, I find it is one of the true hunting shows out there, but more I was just providing a different perspective other than the lynch mob mentality that was pervading this thread.

[Fisher-Dude]

My interpretation is that of the CO Service. That can and will prove to be a problem for those who choose to hunt illegally.

I guess you're not concerned that the GOABC wants to restrict your hunting opportunities with negative campaigns against resident hunters either?

[Will]

Where's Jim ? :-D

[MuleyStalker]

Jim Shockey is never wrong.

[trigger]

It will put shockey in his place

[30.06 Hunter]

My interpretation is that of the CO Service. That can and will prove to be a problem for those who choose to hunt illegally.

I guess you're not concerned that the GOABC wants to restrict your hunting opportunities with negative campaigns against resident hunters either?

Ahhh, I see. You are attacking Shockey because of negative attacks against other hunters.
It is still just your opinion he was hunting illegally. And if you think negatively attacking another hunter, no matter that he is a member of GOABC, will help solve things then you are a bigger part of the problem.

[Fisher-Dude]

Ahhh, I see. You are attacking Shockey because of negative attacks against other hunters.
It is still just your opinion he was hunting illegally. And if you think negatively attacking another hunter, no matter that he is a member of GOABC, will help solve things then you are a bigger part of the problem.

Not at all. You missed the point. I was questioning your undying love of a man who belongs to an organization that doesn't want to see you hunting. Each to their own.

I'd call any resident hunter a poacher if he were breaking the law too. I don't discriminate based on a poacher's affiliation. :-D

[Ozone]

I will check with fisher dud before pulling the trigger from now on :mrgreen:

[burger]

Ahhh, I see. You are attacking Shockey because of negative attacks against other hunters.
It is still just your opinion he was hunting illegally. And if you think negatively attacking another hunter, no matter that he is a member of GOABC, will help solve things then you are a bigger part of the problem.

If in fact he was using a ML then the reg state he is in violation of the law.(still not sure where this was confirmed from) Not just FD opinion but it is the law. Reading the regs it is quite cut and dry that there is no option for the use of a ML.


17 (1) A person commits an offence where he hunts
r) bison with a weapon other than
(i) a centrefire rifle and ammunition other than ammunition constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet which retains 2 712 joules (2 000 foot pounds) or more energy at 100 metres,

Now I'm just a scared caveman gasfitter but I am pretty sure that is easily interpreted

[shotgunjohn]

O.K. just because I'm bored and for arguments sake. A modern inline muzzleloader is fired by a primer through the center of the load . Anyone want to argue the definition of what constitutes a centerfire rifle. I know for sure the barrel is rifled.

As for Jim posting here it just ain't gonna happen.

[burger]

O.K. just because I'm bored and for arguments sake. A modern inline muzzleloader is fired by a primer through the center of the load . Anyone want to argue the definition of what constitutes a centerfire rifle. I know for sure the barrel is rifled.

As for Jim posting here it just ain't gonna happen.



Center-Fire Rifle - A rifle cartridge which has a centrally located primer in the base of the case, which is for the most part removable. (Reloadable)


quick google but I'm sure this would apply

[Fisher-Dude]

As for Jim posting here it just ain't gonna happen.

I agree. He's too busy slagging resident hunters on his blog to be wasting keystrokes on us low-brows.

[Gateholio]

There is no seperate muzzleloader section in the regs, only center fire and rimfire so by that the use of a muzzleloader for any game is illegal.
.

Incorrect. The regulations do not specifically define what you may use, they define what you may not use.

Sticks, stones, spears and muzzleloaders are not named as illegal, therefore they are legal.(Except in the case of bison,)


O.K. just because I'm bored and for arguments sake. A modern inline muzzleloader is fired by a primer through the center of the load . Anyone want to argue the definition of what constitutes a centerfire rifle. I know for sure the barrel is rifled.
n.

A centerfire rifle uses a center primed case for ammunition, and is not loaded via the muzzle. I dont' see how a muzzleloader is legal in BC for bison. I dont' agree with ANY of the bison weapon limitations, but there it is.

A CO with some spare time could probably make a case about Shockey hunting with a ML for bison, but I just don't see it happening.



FD, knock off the personal crap.

[Gateholio]

One thing I can almost guarantee- We will see a change in the regulations in the near future to include ML rifles and define how much energy they must have at 100 yards!:mrgreen:

[Will]

One thing I can almost guarantee- We will see a change in the regulations in the near future to include ML rifles and define how much energy they must have at 100 yards!:mrgreen:
That will be nice for sure..........

The regs are kinda silly anyways.......it's not like CO's have bullet pullers and weigh scales to check weights in the field :confused:
Not too mention a chrony to calculate ftlbs of energy from said bullet:confused:

Take the Regulation for what it is meant to be.......a guideline for choosing an adequate Cartridge to get the job done as humanely and quickly as possible.

I will also add that when a person of somewhat, Celebrity status throws themselves "out there" for all to see via TV shows etc. That person deserves to be critiqued when they are not conducting themselves under the same rules and regs as everyone else.......they are suppose to be the Embassadors of the sport and should be setting the bar higher, not lowering it.:???:

[BimmerBob]

they are suppose to be the Embassadors of the sport and should be setting the bar higher, not lowering it.:???:

WTF is an "Embassador"? :confused:

[Will]

WTF is an "Embassador"? :confused:
Sorry there Shakespeare ! That's would be an Ambassador :rolleyes:

after a few pops I thought I was typing good...........:wink:

[Lord of Gastown]

How come I'm 41, never had any kids

Possible because you are shooting blanks?
Do not know answer to question, but good luck.

[Will]

Possible because you are shooting blanks?
Do not know answer to question, but good luck.
hahahahaha

[Gateholio]

Possible because you are shooting blanks?
Do not know answer to question, but good luck.

Me not having any kids is intentional. I like my life, and I see no need to send it into an uproar.:mrgreen:

[Fisher-Dude]

Me not having any kids is intentional. I like my life, and I see no need to send it into an uproar.:mrgreen:

I don't blame ya, just look at the trouble Bartell has with his son! :shock::shock::shock:

[DV-67]

Should we turn a blind eye to poaching just because it is someone famous? Does that make it okay? Not in my books. In fact, if anything, it can serve to dummy up closet poachers who think no one ever gets caught.

I have heard the same stories about JS's attitude. It makes me wonder about him as well.

As long as you think that this is going to help out us hunters and it is not just to get back at JS for his comments than go ahead and let the witch hunt continue.

Yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa grab your guns boys and lets go get him!!!!!:roll:

[silvicon]

traveller is wrong when he writes there are no roads going into Tahr country in NZ. there are roads going ALL the way up.
depending on where one hunts.
to JS's statement about bison poachers:
he may be right!

[Bighorn hunter]

traveller is wrong when he writes there are no roads going into Tahr country in NZ. there are roads going ALL the way up.
depending on where one hunts.
to JS's statement about bison poachers:
he may be right!



Yeh, he may be right,,,,, we could also argue that if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. It certainly could be possible that there were a few guys up there not completly following the rules of the law(including Jim)but calling all 150 said hunters poachers on his blog is quite a streach

BH

[huntwriter]

I don't know Sockey from a bar of soap, but I do know a guy who guided for him for half a season and woulded go back.
I've seen some of the utube stuff and especially the NZ tahr hunt, which I was appaeled at! To hunt these beasts in the wide you cannot drive above them in the wild as there is no roads as the closest comparison to the country they live in is the mountain side around Stewart. Shockeys tahr came from a pen same as every animal from Africa as all South African hunts are from "Ranchers"
It may make good viewing but its not hunting. Maybe the buffelo hunting was REAL hunting and was too much for him!!

Of course you will be able to provide evidence that in South Africa hunters shoot penned animals. Just because you hunt on a ranch does not indicate that the animals are penned, just like when you gain permission to private land here.:roll:

The animal rights are going to love this thread.

[MattB]

How many people here know of people that party hunt? I do. Do I hunt with these people? No! So is there a real possibility that some of the groups Jim encountered were party hunting? Yes. Not many people would want to drive that far and not at least get some meat out of the deal. I'd guess there was a lot of poaching going on up there, if Jim could prove it he should have reported it!

[dana]

Huntwriter,
Cause the animal rights guys love to waste their time reading threads on HBC???? I love it when I see comments like that on internet hunting sites. It always gives me a good chuckle.

Back to the debate at hand. I'd say Jim gone and opened a can of worms of which he should have left well enough alone. When you point fingers at others be aware that fingers are pointed back at yourself.

The issue of party hunting was brought up in the Hunter Recruitment and Retention Strategy. Thus far the government has sat on their hands and done nothing. Several years ago the Shared Moose hunts were brought in to basically accept the fact of what was going on anyways and legalize a form of party hunting. Why they have yet to bring that system over to other critters is beyond me. Bison would be tops on my list for having another shared hunt in the LEH. Not too many Trophy Hunters are willing to walk away empty handed on that hunt. It is a meat hunt and should be on a shared hunt LEH system.

[huntwriter]

Huntwriter,
Cause the animal rights guys love to waste their time reading threads on HBC???? I love it when I see comments like that on internet hunting sites. It always gives me a good chuckle.



You go ahead and chuckle if it tickles you.:-D
I, on the other hand happen to know that animal rights organizations frequently cruse hunting forums to gather information about hunter/hunting controversy. Don't ask me how I know because I can't tell you. Not yet anyway.:wink:

I also happen to know that almost every big hunting forum with a "members only section" has at least one member that is an animal rights activist gathering information that can be used against hunters/hunting.

Ever wondered where their public statements come from starting with; "Hunters said..." and "Hunters agree with us..." or something to that effect?

Here is a rule I live by on the Internet. Never implicate hunters/hunting or yourself on the Internet. You never know in who's hands it ends up.:wink:

[Will]

Here is a rule I live by on the Internet. Never implicate hunters/hunting or yourself on the Internet. You never know in who's hands it ends up.:wink:
Here's a rule I live by in life......

Never DO anything that justifies having yourself "implicated" with any wrong doing in the first place :wink:

[30.06 Hunter]

Me not having any kids is intentional. I like my life, and I see no need to send it into an uproar.:mrgreen:

High Five bro.

[ChilliwackWinchester]

So does Jim S believe that the MOE's intention is that only the individual with the tag is expected to participate in the hunt? Of course only the individual with the tag can shoot the bison, but surely the expectation isn't that the guy with the tag is to be out in those conditions alone and will be able to pack a 2000.lbs animal out by themself.

[elkdom]

So does Jim S believe that the MOE's intention is that only the individual with the tag is expected to participate in the hunt? Of course only the individual with the tag can shoot the bison, but surely the expectation isn't that the guy with the tag is to be out in those conditions alone and will be able to pack a 2000.lbs animal out by themself.
it is perfectly "legal" to have as many accomplices to your hunt as you can personally tolerate!, so long as the "tag holder does the actual kill shot" and the acccomplices do not partake by "driving/ herding/harassing wildlife, you can have as many helpers as you wish,

kinda like "Santa and his Elves":wink:

[willy442]

He's a member in good standing of that jackass organization, GOABC. Of course he wants to paint resident hunters as poaching slobs, he, like the rest of the GOABC, want you out of the bush so they can sell "quality experiences" to their foreign hunters.

Kiss my ass Shockey.

Fisher Dude: You are part of that know nothing radiacal anti Outfitter Group with thier head up thier ass. You being one of the most unknowing vocal mouth piece's on thier behalf should really have your head examined and realize the G/O's are here to stay. Your continuos bashing them has nothing but negative impact on all hunters equally. So with this in mind and unlike you I will probably get banned. But you can kiss my ass along with every other hunters that is actually trying to achieve something constructive.
I don't stand behind Shockey for one moment as I have run across his kind in the past ie, Jack O'Conners and others. They all come from the same mold of give me a hunt and I'll write an article or shoot a film for you, very rarely does the G/O get his monies worth.

[huntwriter]

Here's a rule I live by in life......

Never DO anything that justifies having yourself "implicated" with any wrong doing in the first place :wink:

Absolutely agree with you. That's why I have a squeaky clean slate.:wink: Yet still if people, especially on the Internet, don't like what you say or do, or not agree with how you do something, even if perfectly legal, or are simply jealous they will come up with accusations and implications.

My comment is not in particular about this thread. I have no opinion on Jim. Everything here is hearsay no hard refutable facts that would stand up in an investigation. Yet people judge like they know the facts of what really went on and how it went down based on a few posts that have been written.

Could just as easily have been that he carried the ML with him to display in the "trophy picture" ones the bull was shot with a legal firearm. It's been done many times before by many "celebrity hunters". Kill a deer with a rifle and then take the picture with a bow in the hand. Sponsors really don't care, most of them anyway, if you use their product or not as long as you display the product once in a while with a trophy.

[Prowler]

You go ahead and chuckle if it tickles you.:-D
I, on the other hand happen to know that animal rights organizations frequently cruse hunting forums to gather information about hunter/hunting controversy. Don't ask me how I know because I can't tell you.


Haha, dont look now HW but theres a black helicopter circleing your house:mrgreen:

[huntwriter]

Haha, dont look now HW but theres a black helicopter circleing your house:mrgreen:

Thanks for the warning.:mrgreen: I'll go and get my rocket launcher from the basement.:mrgreen:

[Devilbear]

If, I were a famous hunting writer, videographer and made my living hunting and then telling/showing others about it, I would read this thread with increasing anger and disgust. I met Jim Shockey once, at the Tradex show, he was polite, friendly and easy to talk to; he is making a living at the type of "outdoor sports" we now have and seems like a nice guy, to me. My problem with this thread is that so many here castigate him as a "poacher", without any evidence of his using any gun to shoot any animal on this particular hunt.

What next, should we just legally allow only those with the tag(s) to carry a gun on a given hunting trip, for fear that they will be overtaken by temptation and shoot in an unlawful manner? This is what the "antis", as HW implies, would just f**king love!

Shockey is a hunter and thus one of us until and unless he actually breaks a law or tries to prevent a resident hunting here in BC...and, quite frankly, I seriously doubt that a man who is as successful in this sport/industry as he is, would ever even consider doing anything so self-limiting. Jim is not a GO that I would want to hunt with, as I prefer a more "low profile" situation, but, he is a Canadian working where he wants to and has the right to be considered "innocent" until there is evidence to the contrary.

Also, I have no great admiration for the GOABC, but, not all of it's members are assholes and there are some GOs, whom I like and respect. Fair is fair and Shockey is as entitled to such consideration as any among us.....well, I don't know about that big dude in the ............... :)

[huntwriter]

If, I were a famous hunting writer, videographer and made my living hunting and then telling/showing others about it, I would read this thread with increasing anger and disgust. I met Jim Shockey once, at the Tradex show, he was polite, friendly and easy to talk to; he is making a living at the type of "outdoor sports" we now have and seems like a nice guy, to me. My problem with this thread is that so many here castigate him as a "poacher", without any evidence of his using any gun to shoot any animal on this particular hunt.

What next, should we just legally allow only those with the tag(s) to carry a gun on a given hunting trip, for fear that they will be overtaken by temptation and shoot in an unlawful manner? This is what the "antis", as HW implies, would just f**king love!

Shockey is a hunter and thus one of us until and unless he actually breaks a law or tries to prevent a resident hunting here in BC...and, quite frankly, I seriously doubt that a man who is as successful in this sport/industry as he is, would ever even consider doing anything so self-limiting. Jim is not a GO that I would want to hunt with, as I prefer a more "low profile" situation, but, he is a Canadian working where he wants to and has the right to be considered "innocent" until there is evidence to the contrary.

Also, I have no great admiration for the GOABC, but, not all of it's members are assholes and there are some GOs, whom I like and respect. Fair is fair and Shockey is as entitled to such consideration as any among us.....well, I don't know about that big dude in the ............... :)

Well said.

[quadrakid]

Seems to me that mr shockey is guilty of what your saying Huntwriter.In his blog he doesn,t agree with how something is done even if perfectly legal and may simply be jealous and has come up with allegations and implications. In doing so he also slagged resident hunters.Whether he was breaking the law is a moot point,he was accusing others of breaking the law.

[huntwriter]

Whether he was breaking the law is a moot point,he was accusing others of breaking the law.

So what you're saying is we can do that (accusing him of breaking the law without evidence) but he cannot say that other hunters break the law?

So he bashed resident hunters on his blog. Big deal. Here on this forum this is done relentlessly every single day. Is there a difference if a "celebrity hunter" bashes other hunters versus "regular hunter" bashes "regular hunter"?

Sounds to me like double standards.

[quadrakid]

I don,t disagree with you,people should have the facts before they slag other folks ie residents. I certainly don,t agree with all the back and forth about whether he was breaking the law.People are making judgements without the facts. One fact that is certain is Jim Shockey is still posting on his blog about all the poaching going on by residents and whining about the fact that a hundred and fifty guys are up there for fifty tags and its ruining his hunt. Too bad mr bigshot i say.

[tomahawk]

So what you're saying is we can do that (accusing him of breaking the law without evidence) but he cannot say that other hunters break the law?

So he bashed resident hunters on his blog. Big deal. Here on this forum this is done relentlessly every single day. Is there a difference if a "celebrity hunter" bashes other hunters versus "regular hunter" bashes "regular hunter"?

Sounds to me like double standards.

There's a huge difference to me when the blog is read around the world by folks from other provinces and countries. He made BC resident hunters, in his blog he claims there were 150 or so bison hunting, seem like they were all poachers! He is in a position where many hunters, including young and new hunters who know no different, will believe that we are just a bunch of BC poachers.

[leadpillproductions]

There's a huge difference to me when the blog is read around the world by folks from other provinces and countries. He made BC resident hunters, in his blog he claims there were 150 or so bison hunting, seem like they were all poachers! He is in a position where many hunters, including young and new hunters who know no different, will believe that we are just a bunch of BC poachers.


I agree 100 % But everyone is slagin on him for so called poaching with out evidence what is the difference . But if he was poaching (wrong caliber so on DAM HIM )LOL

[huntwriter]

There's a huge difference to me when the blog is read around the world by folks from other provinces and countries. He made BC resident hunters, in his blog he claims there were 150 or so bison hunting, seem like they were all poachers! He is in a position where many hunters, including young and new hunters who know no different, will believe that we are just a bunch of BC poachers.

I agree with you. But the difference is not as big as you see it. This and other forums are read internationally too. This forum, more so than Jim's blog, is regularly visited by young and new hunters and they might believe all the negativity we spread about fellow hunters on this forum too.

The point I am trying to make is that the same standards should apply everywhere. We should not judge another hunter, regardless of social status, for something that happens every single day here too. We're just as guilty of bashing our own as Jim. How many times have you read on this forum about hunters that had their opportunity ruined by others and the heated, often demeaning and slanderous, debates that result from that? I'll tell you it happens almost every single day here, versus ones a year, that I am aware of, on Jim's blog.

In my opinion a little respect and consideration before jumping the gun would do us all good and in the long run serve hunters and hunting better than this constant bashing and accusations of fellow hunters based on nothing more than hearsay. In the end we all sit in the same boat.

[BearStump]

This thread is growing increasingly more stupid. Did anybody take the time to actually refer back to the origional post.

one group only had one tag, but managed to shoot two bison. They were then trying to find someone in the lodge to claim their second bison. It is too bad that people do this, yet then complain that there are not any more tags put out.
That IS poaching. and if thats what JS is calling poaching then how can anybody disagree with that, regardless of weather they like the guy or not.

[Fisher-Dude]

This forum, more so than Jim's blog, is regularly visited by young and new hunters and they might believe all the negativity we spread about fellow hunters on this forum too.


Not friggin' likely. Shockey is huge in the states, with 300 million plus people to draw on. A western Canadian hunting forum has no hope in hell of getting 5% of the hits that Shockey does on his website. You can make up all the BS you want, but sometimes when it's that blatantly obvious, you'll get called on it. :wink:

[tomahawk]

In my opinion a little respect and consideration before jumping the gun would do us all good and in the long run serve hunters and hunting better than this constant bashing and accusations of fellow hunters based on nothing more than hearsay. In the end we all sit in the same boat.

Couldn't have said it better myself, totally agree!

[huntwriter]

Not friggin' likely. Shockey is huge in the states, with 300 million plus people to draw on. A western Canadian hunting forum has no hope in hell of getting 5% of the hits that Shockey does on his website.

if I could be bothered I could easily and quickly find out how many visitors each website gets.:wink: Fact is that this website gets a lot of people from all over the world too. Anybody looking for information about hunting in BC WILL come to this website. That's how I found this site in 2003 when I lived in China.:wink:

[Wild_Dog]

I think the wink symbol should be banned. It's way overused. :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

freaking annoying trying to read something with that pretentious f**** wink......

Now back to my popcorn.

[Fisher-Dude]

This forum, more so than Jim's blog, is regularly visited by young and new hunters


if I could be bothered I could easily and quickly find out how many visitors each website gets.:wink:

So, you now admit you don't know. Yeah.

[huntwriter]

So, you now admit you don't know. Yeah.

I do have the figures from two respectively three years ago when I contacted both website owners for advertising purpose. I am not at liberty to disclose the figures and I am sure they have changed quite a bit since then.

[Hank Hunter]

This thread is growing increasingly more stupid. Did anybody take the time to actually refer back to the origional post.

That IS poaching. and if thats what JS is calling poaching then how can anybody disagree with that, regardless of weather they like the guy or not.

You need to refer back to the original post, dont edit it. The OP said he HEARD that someone done this, not that he witnessed it

[Hank Hunter]

This whole thread is intraweb bs, all innuendo and hearsay. Jim Shockey made a mistake, in my opinion. He posted on his blog the remarks about resident hunters and poachers, again innuendo and personal opinion without basis in fact. Now most posters on hear are guilty of the same thing. My issue is with his poor choice of words, nothing else

[huntwriter]

This whole thread is intraweb bs, all innuendo and hearsay. Jim Shockey made a mistake, in my opinion. He posted on his blog the remarks about resident hunters and poachers, again innuendo and personal opinion without basis in fact. Now most posters on hear are guilty of the same thing. My issue is with his poor choice of words, nothing else

What I said all along, but try to convince those on a mission.

[bigwhiteys]

Not friggin' likely. Shockey is huge in the states, with 300 million plus people to draw on. A western Canadian hunting forum has no hope in hell of getting 5% of the hits that Shockey does on his website. You can make up all the BS you want, but sometimes when it's that blatantly obvious, you'll get called on it. :wink:


Spouting off about stuff you know absolutely nothing about... A trait you've displayed before.

To give you some perspective.

JimShockey.Com has an Alexa rank of 972,736. (on the list of popular websites that's where he stands)

HuntingBC.Ca has an Alexa rank of 229,053 (significantly more popular than shockeys site.)

Mywebsite has an Alexa rank of 63,027 (better than both) This is a site that receives about 50,000,000 hits per year. (not hunting related)

The lower your Alexa rank the better... It's not an indication of HARD traffic numbers, but it gives a guy who knows what he is looking at a good idea.

So as far as the intraweb goes, Shockey doesn't get even close to what you think he does. I think most of the Shockey/GO hate is coming from Jealousy for one reason or another. An ugly human emotion.

My family has already had dealings with Shockey... Just ask him who shot the #1 black powder Stone Ram...


but sometimes when it's that blatantly obvious, you'll get called on it. :wink:

You just did!

Carl

[sawmill]

Bearstump I did read his blog and he used the word "Resident "like Clansman use the N Word.
I am a resident and I don`t like some rich dickhead crying about the fact that he didn`t get the whole area to himself."Too many Residents hunting so we went home"Resident hunters every where"(Paraphrase)
Do a little research Shocky and don`t expect all of us "Residents" to stay home untill you have finished filming the next episode of your hunting show.We actually have to pay for our rifles and fuel and tags and take time off work to go hunting.I friggen wish I had a sponser.Asshat,hope I never run across him here.:evil:

[trigger]

Bearstump I did read his blog and he used the word "Resident "like Clansman use the N Word.
I am a resident and I don`t like some rich dickhead crying about the fact that he didn`t get the whole area to himself."Too many Residents hunting so we went home"Resident hunters every where"(Paraphrase)
Do a little research Shocky and don`t expect all of us "Residents" to stay home untill you have finished filming the next episode of your hunting show.We actually have to pay for our rifles and fuel and tags and take time off work to go hunting.I friggen wish I had a sponser.Asshat,hope I never run across him here.:evil:

:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D. Right on

[huntwriter]

Bearstump I did read his blog and he used the word "Resident "like Clansman use the N Word.
I am a resident and I don`t like some rich dickhead crying about the fact that he didn`t get the whole area to himself."Too many Residents hunting so we went home"Resident hunters every where"(Paraphrase)


And how many times did you read on this forum hunters complaining that they went to such and such place and that there where resident hunters everywhere spoiling their hunt. Often these complaining hunters use very rude and uncalled for remarks to air their disgust about the number of hunters they encounter in the bush.

My question to you is. Is it different when a celeb. hunter complains about encountering many hunters "spoiling" his hunt then when we do exactly the same thing and often in the same unflattering, or worse, way. Just curious what makes Jim's complaining about resident hunters different than that of regular hunters. Is it different because, according to you, he does not have to pay for his rifle? Because he is an outfitter? Because he is, according to some, rich?

[Ozone]

Asshat,hope I never run across him here.:evil:

Or what? You going to use all capitals when you type at him? :confused:

[gary murray]

I've always been a fan of Jims videos and own quite a few. Unless he is a 100% positive that there was poaching going on then he should of kept his mouth shut. Don't assume that they're poaching unless you actually witness it happening and see the CO's and R.C.M.P. confiscating guns and game. The residents have as every much right as he does to be in those hills to try and fill a bison tag but he makes it sound like the resident hunters have no right to be there while he's filming or hunting. He could of said other hunters but instead used the word "resident" like it's some kind of a disease.

[stitch]

I also enjoy watching his video's. Watched one on the weekend where he fell flat on his face after hey got excited after he shot a moose. I thought it was soemthing I would have left out of my video but he left it in. Honestly I've nevermet the man before so I don't have an opinion of him.

[d6dan]

I also enjoy watching his video's. Watched one on the weekend where he fell flat on his face after hey got excited after he shot a moose. I thought it was soemthing I would have left out of my video but he left it in. Honestly I've nevermet the man before so I don't have an opinion of him.

Good vid, I have the same one. I see Jim just posted his new territory in South Africa..

[bad arrow]

Or what? You going to use all capitals when you type at him? :confused:
I just pizzed myself

[huntwriter]

Yesterday we went all day never saw a bison again. Saw lots of resident hunters. There are 50 or 60 resident tags. I have one and Tanya has one. But we're seeing literally 150 hunters out there with guns. They're all saying they're wolf hunting, but ... we've seen 150 of the 50 bison hunters that are supposed to be there. They are all over the place.
Tanya did manage to get a small bull yesterday. One shot perfect, and they saw another big herd. But we were off a million miles away trying to get away from the hunters and we didn't see anything.

So this morning we went back in the area where Tanya got her bull. I finally saw my first bison. We saw three cows, two calves and one 2-year-old male and that was it. They started running, and then some other hunters showed up that didn't have bison tags, but they were hard on the bison tails. They said they were six wolves, so it was kind of an unusual hunt.
Anyway I pulled the plug at that point. There was just too much poaching going on for my liking.
So I left and we are on our way home.This is the post on Jim's blog everyone is referring too as derogatory in respect to resident hunters. Now if it were me I probably would have chosen to write the post differently, maybe not, maybe I wouldn't have written it at all. But the point is that I can not see anywhere in his post where he uses "resident hunter" in a demeaning way or implies that they have no right to be there. All he states is that there where a lot of resident hunters all over the place. He states a fact whats derogatory about that? He states that it appeared that some of them where poaching or claiming to hunt wolfs. He states an opinion based on what he saw and what he has been told. We do that everyday on this forum.

In fact, as stated in an earlier post, I have seen hundred times worse said about resident hunters, including calling them poachers based on mere gossip and emotions, on this forum. I am still wondering what makes his remark so different from the comments about other hunter some of the members on this forum relentlessly spew forth every single day.

There are sure a lot of emotions here and little facts on this thread. It seems almost everybody reads more into the blog post then what it actually says.

[gary murray]

He actually says "Anyway I pulled the plug at that point. There was just too much poaching going on for my liking." He didn't say it appeared that way.

What i can't figure out is why would these people be out poaching with all these other hunters around them and a big name guy like Shockey amongst them. It's not like they can just stick the bison under their coats and smuggle it out without being seen. Also i see where you're coming from Othmar but when he says "resident" i get the feeling from reading his blog that there's some other choice words that he'd rather use towards the resident hunters because he obviously isn't too happy about how things went for him up there.

[bridger]

X2 that is the impression i got fromreading his blog. i was offended as he seemed to dis associate himself from resident hunters giving the impression to me that if all those hunters had been guided their would be no problems.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

that blog has been edited from the original.....

[Fisher-Dude]

Spouting off about stuff you know absolutely nothing about... A trait you've displayed before.

To give you some perspective.

JimShockey.Com has an Alexa rank of 972,736. (on the list of popular websites that's where he stands)

HuntingBC.Ca has an Alexa rank of 229,053 (significantly more popular than shockeys site.)

Mywebsite has an Alexa rank of 63,027 (better than both) This is a site that receives about 50,000,000 hits per year. (not hunting related)

The lower your Alexa rank the better... It's not an indication of HARD traffic numbers, but it gives a guy who knows what he is looking at a good idea.

So as far as the intraweb goes, Shockey doesn't get even close to what you think he does. I think most of the Shockey/GO hate is coming from Jealousy for one reason or another. An ugly human emotion.

My family has already had dealings with Shockey... Just ask him who shot the #1 black powder Stone Ram...



You just did!

Carl

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in your family.

Alexa rankings are completely unreliable. Alexa web stats are only tallied for those who use the Alexa tool bar in their browsers. Moreover, users with Macs and Firefox users don't get tallied.

But, it suits your purpose Carl, so flail away. It doesn't change the fact that Shockey will likely be investigated for using an illegal firearm on a bison hunt in BC. I can well imagine the bruhaha that you and Willy would stir if a resident hunter and non-member of the sacred GOABC were to use an illegal firearm on a coveted LEH bison hunt.


Inherent Limitations of Alexa Data

First and foremost, because the toolbar requires the Windows version of Internet Explorer 5.0 or later, the data gathered by Alexa will obviously be biased against sites which attract users from other platforms. Alexa data will favour sites with a primarily Windows user base; so, for example, enthusiast sites dedicated to the Macintosh or to the Linux operating system would be expected to show almost zero presence in Alexa rankings. Given the rapid growth of the Firefox browser, especially among web users who might describe themselves as 'technologically sophisticated' (one of the groups most likely to switch away from Internet Explorer), this suggests that sites with a 'sophisticated' mix of users will also be swimming against the Alexa current, as fewer and fewer of their visitors wind up using the toolbar.

In addition, in the course of tracking site performance for my own sites or for those of other private practitioners who are my consulting clients, I have sometimes found the traffic data reported by Alexa to fluctuate by a factor of 10 times or more, for no apparent reason -- even though I know perfectly well from examining those sites' web logs that their traffic has not fluctuated by anything at all like that amount. (Especially during the latter part of 2004 and the first part of 2005, Alexa traffic data seem to have gone completely bonkers for many sites; data for CounsellingResource.com sometimes go wildly out of correlation with our own data, dropping to virtually zero even while our real visitor numbers and traffic levels continue to set new records.)


Similarly, for a given number of visitors, overall traffic levels can be skewed upwards simply by providing a poorly designed site with awkward navigation: the more pages a user must click through in order to reach the information they're seeking, the more traffic gets generated. Therefore, it is difficult to interpret the relationship between traffic and visitors (i.e., the average number of page views per visitor) for a given site: a relatively low number of page views per visitor might indicate that a site contains little of what its typical visitors are seeking, or it might indicate that it is especially well designed and that visitors are finding what they're seeking very quickly.

[Gateholio]

As I said in my first post on this thread- I thought his use of the term "resident hunter" seemed odd, since he is a resident hunter,too. If I have an experience where there I run into lots of other hunters I say "Lots of other hunters" I don't make a point of mentioning that they were residents.

I thought it was odd.

[horshur]

As I said in my first post on this thread- I thought his use of the term "resident hunter" seemed odd, since he is a resident hunter,too. If I have an experience where there I run into lots of other hunters I say "Lots of other hunters" I don't make a point of mentioning that they were residents.

I thought it was odd.

could it be he was being politicaly correct???.......residents= first nation??

[bigwhiteys]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in your family.

Here we go again... :mrgreen:


Alexa rankings are completely unreliable. Alexa web stats are only tallied for those who use the Alexa tool bar in their browsers.
Moreover, users with Macs and Firefox users don't get tallied.

I already said they didn't provide HARD traffic numbers but for someone who knows what they are looking at it can give one a good indication into how popular a website actually is.

You think Shockeys site gets millions upon millions of visitors... I called BULLSHIT and said so.


But, it suits your purpose Carl, so flail away.

You've never posted rhetoric BS to suit your purpose??? That's laughable.


It doesn't change the fact that Shockey will likely be investigated for using an illegal firearm on a bison hunt in BC.


And it will probably go down something like your asshole buddies charges he tried to press on my dad for kicking him out of some gated hunting land... Absolutely Nowhere.


I can well imagine the bruhaha that you and Willy would stir if a resident hunter and non-member of the sacred GOABC were to use an illegal firearm on a coveted LEH bison hunt.

Bruhuhaha? You're the one on this site that is constantly quoting laws, legal info, charges, blah blah, bullshit all the time. You are constantly in confrontations with people on here, Now you want to hang shockey because of his blog comments...

Look in the mirror once in a while

Carl

[30.06 Hunter]

could it be he was being politicaly correct???.......residents= first nation??

That is sort of what I thought when I first read the post. The way it read that the season for the residents had just opened seemed to indicate that this was for the reserve residents. And they had fifty tags among them to fill.

[Will]

That is sort of what I thought when I first read the post. The way it read that the season for the residents had just opened seemed to indicate that this was for the reserve residents. And they had fifty tags among them to fill.
And the PLOT thickens...............http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/images/smilies/new/popCorn.gif

[sawmill]

Or what? You going to use all capitals when you type at him? :confused:
YES I AM!BIG RED ONES.

[Kody94]

Wouldn't really be poaching if it was the "First Residents" though, would it?

[horshur]

Wouldn't really be poaching if it was the "First Residents" though, would it?

That isn't really clear now is it???? What are they allowed?? are they allowed to shoot moose and deer now or not??? cause they do and are.

And a matter of personal oppinion.......I'd beg to differ

[ChilliwackWinchester]

Guys!!! Theres a big fight in the other post. FD's really getting an ass whooping. Come see!!!!

[Hank Hunter]

Wow you keyboard wizards are too much. Cant prove he was hunting illegally so now you want to throw the racist thing out there. Give your heads a shake

[Twolucky]

Tanya, what a great hunt you must have had, its nice to see you got a trophy of a lifetime!! For the rest of you guys do you feel better after blowing of some steam. I think you all need to sit back and take a deep breathe.

[bridger]

That is sort of what I thought when I first read the post. The way it read that the season for the residents had just opened seemed to indicate that this was for the reserve residents. And they had fifty tags among them to fill.


just a note to clarify something. the ranch that is owned by the blueberry band is not reserve land and there is no special bison allocaton for first nations. they hunt them when they want year around. the blueberry band bought the guiding area in the halfway valley and the ranch was part of the deal. it is deeded land no different from any other ranch in the area.

[muledeercrazy]

Do they have shared hunts for bison? Or people go with there buddy to help out and hunt wolfs until a bison is shot ?


im not sure how shockey gets his game out of the bush but i would want a friend or two to help me with it, i dont think i would go on a bison hunt myself unless it was the only option.

Also, what are the odds of shockey and someone else from his outfit getting a draw together.. next to nothing, so something seems strange. maybe he bought his tag? He is a hypocrite anyways,imo!

[Fraink]

Just got back from that same hunt, my son harvested a nice 4 yr old bull, I carried a gun as a back up, scopes and guns can have trouble specially in the cold, also to keep the boogyman away. He got his bull 57 km from the truck, we kept going till we were hunting away from the crowds. It was quite a chore for the two of us and I am not surprised to hear of guys taking more than one helper. When we were going in the next day to recover the rest of the animal, we ran into a couple guys that were still hunting and offered to let them follow us. Anybody that would have seen the four of us travelling together might have assumed we were one group with one tag and four rifles, clearly not the truth. Easy to make snap judgements based on observations but would be better to get accurate info or SHUT UP!!!!

[Blainer]

As for Jim's comments on his blog personally I would say poaching was a strong word to use, but to put it in perspective there were things that happened while we were there.

There were two bison shot on ranch property , which according to the outfitter was not supposed to be allowed. Was this poaching? Apparantly they had paid the trespass fee so this may come down to the agreement between the native band and the outfitter. I don't know.

There was a group of seven guys spread out watching a large section of the main trail. They said they had one tag. Were six of them "wolf hunting"? I don't know but I think the guns they were carrying would have done a lot of damage to a wolf hide.

While we were stalking a herd of Bison a group of people opened fire on them. There were at least a dozen shots in this fusilade including what sounded like a semi auto be fired about as fast as the shooter could pull the trigger. There were at least three and maybe four guns.We were close enough to here them yelling about who was shooting at what animal. When we were leaving the area we heard four more shots followed by another then another. We ran into these guys as they were coming out and they said they had killed one buffalo. Maybe they were just really bad shots? I don't know.

What I do know is that for Tanya after waiting all these years for a draw it was dissappointing to see this behaviour. We did still manage to have a great time.

Seems like a honest opinion of what they witnessed when they were there.

She also got her bison.:confused:

[PeaceHunter]

im not sure how shockey gets his game out of the bush but i would want a friend or two to help me with it, i dont think i would go on a bison hunt myself unless it was the only option.

Also, what are the odds of shockey and someone else from his outfit getting a draw together.. next to nothing, so something seems strange. maybe he bought his tag? He is a hypocrite anyways,imo!

It happens, back in 2006 I got a draw and my wife's uncle, who I hunt with quite often also got a draw. Two years before that my father-in law got a draw and this year my brother in law got a draw. Keep putting in and you may eventually get lucky yourself. (also the december hunt in region A has the best odds of any of the Bison LEH draws this year, probably because it's -30 out at that time of year!!!!!)

[PeaceHunter]

just a note to clarify something. the ranch that is owned by the blueberry band is not reserve land and there is no special bison allocaton for first nations. they hunt them when they want year around. the blueberry band bought the guiding area in the halfway valley and the ranch was part of the deal. it is deeded land no different from any other ranch in the area.

and of course the First Nations in the Peace are under Treaty #8 anyways which gaurantees them the right to Hunt Fish and Trap. They do not need licenses or are required to follow the same regs as we are, so they are not restricted to a specific season.

[bridger]

It happens, back in 2006 I got a draw and my wife's uncle, who I hunt with quite often also got a draw. Two years before that my father-in law got a draw and this year my brother in law got a draw. Keep putting in and you may eventually get lucky yourself. (also the december hunt in region A has the best odds of any of the Bison LEH draws this year, probably because it's -30 out at that time of year!!!!!)


it is possible to buy a bison hunt from one of the two outfitters in the area, but two people that hunt together getting drawn is not unusual.

[xtremearchery]

Did Jim witness the hunters poaching a bison? If he did great! Report the prick! But if he didn't and the hunters were indeed hunting wolves which in that area there are alot scene, Maybe his poaching comments should be kept to himself and not broadcast over a public website. Just my thoughts... What you guys think?

[Hank Hunter]

Did Jim witness the hunters poaching a bison? If he did great! Report the prick! But if he didn't and the hunters were indeed hunting wolves which in that area there are alot scene, Maybe his poaching comments should be kept to himself and not broadcast over a public website. Just my thoughts... What you guys think?

Are you kidding ? read the other 200 + posts and you will know what they think

[Seeadler]

Wow, somebody (well known or not) whining about too much pressure in an area with road/trail access. Sure sounds familiar.

Now for the obligatory JS comment. I never cared for his writing, wouldn't buy one of his videos, don't like the "muzzleloader world record" type stuff. He may or may not be a great guy or a loser, can't say, don't know him.