How much is too much for a designer breed?

[Lots'oLabs]

This question arisies out of a comment by Kasomor.What is an appropriate price to pay for a dog that is considered to be rare or even a designer breed IE: Labradoodle?
I visited a website for Australian Labradoodles and the pups were being sold in excess of $2700.
Also what about the merits and associated cost of a "rare" breed ie:Flatcoat or NSDTR (Toller)?
Does anyone have any thoughts?

Keep it nice. It's Christmas:)

[darrin6109]

designer dog? i call them mutts!
nothing wrong with them but thats all they are

[Clint_S]

In my day we used to call labradoodles etc. mongrels and they were generally free. I guess they will charge what the market will bear so if people are dumb enough to pay top dollar for a crossbred non-registered dog well, more power to the breeder I guess.

[Angel]

IMO... I would only buy a pup from a breeder who is in it for the love and to provide the best quality dogs available and not a breeder who is in it for the money. You can find this out with a 15 min phone call and a quick Internet search. I would have a hard time spending more the $1500 on a pup that's for sure.

[Iron Glove]

In my mind the problem with a designer "breed" is that they really are a one generation dog, not a multi generation dog. If you breed two labradoodles, it's possible you'll get some labs, some poodles and some mutts, that's the way genetics works. If you breed a true pure bred, you get pure bred.
Having said that, all dogs are to a degree mutts - they all were basically cross bred at on etime or another.
A Toller being "rare", maybe a few years back but now they are relatively popular. $1,500 now - ours was @ $800 7 years ago. Would we pay $1,500 now for a Toller - who knows, it's a lot of money. But then, I look at our girl (when she behaves) and there isn't an amount I wouldn't pay to get her again.

[dutchie]

I would top off at $1200 MAX.

I feel... I will emphasize "I FEEL"... if you are selling dogs for more then $1200, it is not to better the breed, rather it is about money.

I know of a breeder in Kentucky that charges $500 more for a Roine Black GSP over a Ticked Liver... whats that about? To me that is being a dog Flogger/puppy mill, not a breeder.

In the AKC and CKC they keep the breeding rights unless you pay for them!?! This to me is strickly ego driven...If they have a pup and it is a super dog then the breeder wants THIER name on YOUR dog and the breeding rights. If you want to BUY the breeding rights of YOUR dog then it will cost YOU another $1200-$2000 on average, some will not sell the rights. To me this is a problem because if you have a dog that is genetically superior, and the dog is nutered or spayed... well that dog will never be involved in the breeding program because the breeder didn't get thier piece of the pie.

IF A BREEDER SELLS A PERSON A DOG AND RETAINS THE BREEDING RIGHTS, YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE OWNER. SO WHEN CALCULATING THE COST OF A DOG ADD IN THE "BREEDING RIGHTS". 95% OF THE AKC/CKC DOGS WILL COST IN EXCESS OF $2500...

If the people that breed do it to better the breed, rather then the money, the dogs would be around the $800 mark.

RANT FINISHED!


Dutchie

[Angel]

Dutchie you are such an idiot and don't know anything about dogs.... Blah blah blah....... Lol :mrgreen:


I agree tho I could in my right mind fork over more then $1200. It's a freaking dog!! I mean we all move our pets but seriously... You still gotta pick up it's crap and buy it food.

[Kasomor]

How much would you pay for a truck?

I think people who spend more than $25000 for a truck are idiots. All trucks should be no more than 15000 and all manufacturers who want more are just in it for the money. For GS it just a TRUCK! :mrgreen:

It's all about education to me. I would not pay for a labradoodle or any unregistered mutt. The SPCA has lots of those.

Nor would I buy a registered non health cleared pup and since field with versatility is my thing I want a pup out of proven stock as well.

I would likely pay $5000.00 for a started lab if I wanted one. I don't. I would likely pay that for a started field golden as well. I would expect to pay in the area of $1200 to $1800 for a well bred field lab/golden pup because that is what they are selling for.

If you go on to RTF there are buyers galore for well bred, registered, health cleared started dogs. And people are willing and ready to pay for them.

Don't get me going on people who are breeding just for the $$. You absolutely bet that IS happening in ALL breeds and mutts as well with people who slap an ad on to any Internet forum or in the newspaper.

Yes, you can make money off of breeding. Breed your unregistered, non health checked bitch to your buddy's unregistered non health checked male. As long as there are no problems in whelping, only cost associated with the breeding is food for the pups and momma and a vet check MAYBE for the pups.

Last litter I had I made $543. 67 off of 6 pups. That works out to about $8 per day over the 9 weeks I kept the pups. I really should be breeding for the money, eh? :???:

Kasomor

[Lots'oLabs]

I would top off at $1200 MAX.

I feel... I will emphasize "I FEEL"... if you are selling dogs for more then $1200, it is not to better the breed, rather it is about money.

I know of a breeder in Kentucky that charges $500 more for a Roine Black GSP over a Ticked Liver... whats that about? To me that is being a dog Flogger/puppy mill, not a breeder.

In the AKC and CKC they keep the breeding rights unless you pay for them!?! This to me is strickly ego driven...If they have a pup and it is a super dog then the breeder wants THIER name on YOUR dog and the breeding rights. If you want to BUY the breeding rights of YOUR dog then it will cost YOU another $1200-$2000 on average, some will not sell the rights. To me this is a problem because if you have a dog that is genetically superior, and the dog is nutered or spayed... well that dog will never be involved in the breeding program because the breeder didn't get thier piece of the pie.

IF A BREEDER SELLS A PERSON A DOG AND RETAINS THE BREEDING RIGHTS, YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE OWNER. SO WHEN CALCULATING THE COST OF A DOG ADD IN THE "BREEDING RIGHTS". 95% OF THE AKC/CKC DOGS WILL COST IN EXCESS OF $2500...

If the people that breed do it to better the breed, rather then the money, the dogs would be around the $800 mark.

RANT FINISHED!


Dutchie

I think you have a very good point (despite what your friend, Angel says:)) and I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the craziness between buyer and breeder contracts.

I wouldn't ever purchase a dog on a "no breeding contract". I don't have any problem with health & safety issues, however, when a breeder chooses to tell me if I can breed my dog and whom it must be to and also retain a kennel name, thats a deal breaker.
When I buy a dog I carry the Dam's Kennel name and do my best to train it and fullfil my responsibilities toward the breeder. Anything beyond that is my dog. My kennel name should I choose to breed and my choice to whom.
In my mind exclusivity pushes prices up.
If prices are above the average, regardless of breed, then they had better be bringing something to the table.

Very observant Dutchie

[Kasomor]

In the AKC and CKC they keep the breeding rights unless you pay for them!?! This to me is strickly ego driven...If they have a pup and it is a super dog then the breeder wants THIER name on YOUR dog and the breeding rights. If you want to BUY the breeding rights of YOUR dog then it will cost YOU another $1200-$2000 on average, some will not sell the rights. To me this is a problem because if you have a dog that is genetically superior, and the dog is nutered or spayed... well that dog will never be involved in the breeding program because the breeder didn't get thier piece of the pie.

IF A BREEDER SELLS A PERSON A DOG AND RETAINS THE BREEDING RIGHTS, YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE OWNER. SO WHEN CALCULATING THE COST OF A DOG ADD IN THE "BREEDING RIGHTS". 95% OF THE AKC/CKC DOGS WILL COST IN EXCESS OF $2500...

If the people that breed do it to better the breed, rather then the money, the dogs would be around the $800 mark.

RANT FINISHED!


Dutchie

Dutchie,
I don't know where you are getting your information on breeding rights and the CKC but it's wrong.

Any CKC registered dog can be sold on full ownership. You slap down your money and the dog is yours to do with what you want including breeding 20 times and the breeder gets nothing back.

The CKC does encourage breeders to sell their pups on Non-Breeding contracts. This isn't an "ego-trip" thing for breeders. It is a preventative measure to try and stop back-yard breeders from breeding their registered dog to their hunting buddy's mutt for profit with out educating themselves to the ramifications of dog breeding for one thing.

The other option is co-ownership. If your dog proves to be a great example of the bred and worthy of breeding, then the breeding of that pup would have been worked out in a private contract mutually agreed upon before the pup even left the breeders house.

If a buyer is foolish enough to sign any contract that stipulates that a breeder can refuse to "sell" you the breeding rights of that dog...as I said that would be a very foolish thing to do. And why would ANYONE buy a dog from that kind of breeder in the first place??

There are people willing to sign contracts which stipulate 2 litters back or 2 pups back or 3- 4 or more breedings from the male, or ?? any number of those combinations. Did they have a gun held to their head when they agreed to this??? What if anything did they gain in return?

All my pups are sold on either non-breeding or co-ownership. I don't hold a gun to anyones head to sign it. Nor was a gun held to my head when I bought my first toller, agreeing to give back the first litter to the breeder of my girl. What I gained in KNOWLEDGE by doing that was more then I would have EVER made by any finicacal profit on the litter.

I would bet that almost 100% of tollers are sold in this manner and would be leary of any breeder who did NOT sell toller pups either in co-ownership or non-breeding. For one thing it is against the NSDTRCC Code Of Ethics which I have to take seriously since I am the NSDTRCC BC Director. :mrgreen:

A good contract is one that protects both buyer and seller, that they are both happy with, with welfare of pup always the first consideration.

Cheers, Kasomor

[BCHoyt]

My wife originally wanted a French Bulldog so started looking into breeders... One on the mainland wanted $4000 for a puppy.. Are you #$%@#$%'ing kidding me? No WAY! Even on the island they were over $2000... Ended up rescuing a dog from Taiwan... Daschund cross Basenji... He cost us $500 but that included all vet checks, shots, neutering, microchipping, flight to Vancouver airport, and the kennel he came in.. He is a great dog and he herds our 2 ferrets around the house quite well! lol

[Kasomor]

He is a great dog and he herds our 2 ferrets around the house quite well! lol

That's hilarious!!

Cheers,
Kasomor

[RambleOn]

I think that for the overall time, effort, and cost you need to pay what ever it is that you need to to get the one you want and that will be a good fit. They are around for a long time and become part of the family. The initial price will be a dent in the fender in the end.

I have a Dogo Argentino that we brought up from Argentina. They breed them to hunt Puma and Wild Boar. They are a mix of ten species developed in the 40's. There was 3 interviews with the breeder and overall quite the hassle to get him. I won't even mention the total cost and flights etc.

He will be 3yrs on Xmas day and is 140lbs of hungry muscle. He eats like a tank and requires alot of attention. Did I mention how much he eats. I am not sure but think that vets also secretly charge by the pound.

All in we spend massive time, effort, and money on him, but it is more than worth it. Walking in the pooring rain and cold sucks, but we couldnt ask for one better.

[BCHoyt]

Ya our dog and ferrets are our kids as my wife cant have children.. We love our pets to death.. Our dog is 6 months old now and knows how to sit, laydown, roll over, shake paw, and is learning STAY! lol Absolutely loves the outdoors... we take him hiking and geocaching all the time.. Maybe I can train him to retrieve grouse! lol

[416]

They are around for a long time and become part of the family. The initial price will be a dent in the fender in the end.

Absolutely right.....I have to wonder about how folks who want a "deal" on a pup will react when they get handed a $1000.00 vet bill for their pet getting into something it shouldn't have. In the end the initial purchase price of a dog is a lot less then the cost of raising and caring for your dog. As for conditions/agreements and limitations........as mentioned, no one has a gun to anyones head to sign anything, if a person feels the price of anything is to rich, don't buy it.

[BCHoyt]

Thank god for pet insurance in cases like that! Being that my wife is an insurance agent she insures everything out the wazoooooo... lol

[Marc]

I feel... I will emphasize "I FEEL"... if you are selling dogs for more then $1200, it is not to better the breed, rather it is about money.

In the AKC and CKC they keep the breeding rights unless you pay for them!?! This to me is strickly ego driven...If they have a pup and it is a super dog then the breeder wants THIER name on YOUR dog and the breeding rights. If you want to BUY the breeding rights of YOUR dog then it will cost YOU another $1200-$2000 on average, some will not sell the rights. To me this is a problem because if you have a dog that is genetically superior, and the dog is nutered or spayed... well that dog will never be involved in the breeding program because the breeder didn't get thier piece of the pie.

IF A BREEDER SELLS A PERSON A DOG AND RETAINS THE BREEDING RIGHTS, YOU ARE NOT THE SOLE OWNER. SO WHEN CALCULATING THE COST OF A DOG ADD IN THE "BREEDING RIGHTS". 95% OF THE AKC/CKC DOGS WILL COST IN EXCESS OF $2500...

If the people that breed do it to better the breed, rather then the money, the dogs would be around the $800 mark.

RANT FINISHED!

Dutchie

Lets look at the cost of getting the clearances done to both parents of the pups, lets also look at the cost of getting the titles put on these dogs. Some of them having multiple titles with CKC / AKC in different sporting fields and show rings costing thousands of dollars over the years. Lets also factor in the cost of a high quality puppy food for 10 hungry and growing pups. Lets look at the cost of taking these pups to the vet for deworming and first shots. Now lets look at the cost of having each pup registered with one of the CKC / UKC /AKC. Lets now look at returning calls to potential owners all over North America trying to decide wich home is right for one of your pups.

Do you honestly believe that a breeder who may do a litter per year going through all that trouble is doing it for the money ?

Like it's been shown in previous threads it's easier to make money selling your dogs for the same price of a pure bred dog without going throught the cost of paying for clearances for the parents, titles to prove their wortheness of passing on their genes or the cost of registering each pup, or having to worry about contract obligations if something goes wrong. To me these are the people who are out there for the money and not the better of the breed.

Most breeders will give you the option of buying the breeding rights if the dog proves to be worthy later on. Some kennels have a clause in their contracts where you don't receive the registered papers until there is proof of neutering or spading of the dog.

I guess the reason to make it expensive to get the breeding rights to an animal is to discourage people from breeding their dogs just because "they" think that their dog is the greatest thing on the planet. I'm a firm believer that a dog should have at least one CKC / UKC /AKC title under his belt proving that it is worthy of passing on his genes before it should be allowed to breed. I'm also a firm believer of having all the clearances done on the parents as well before breeding. I don't think at this time that it is a must but it should be.

When I decided it was time for another dog I did some research on the breed I wanted to get. I ended up buying a pure bred registered dog who's parents and ancestors had titles in the field as well as the show ring. Both parents had clearances to prove they were of sound breeding. I spent countless hours on the phone with the breeder discussing the type of hunting and the type of home the puppy would have if I was the right person for one of the pups. Was it worth the cost of $1000? Hell yea.

Would I pay the same for a mutt or unregistered dog? Hell no. That would be like buying a new truck for $50,000 without knowing the brand name or being able to look under the hood to see what's in there. When you pay that much money you want the same guarantee, warranty and certificates stating what you've got is genuine and sound.

Unless it's some kind of hound, If it's not a pure bred dog I would say that anything over the cost of having to feed it until it's old enough to go to a good home and it's initial first vet bill is to much. Anything more then that is to make money. It's definitely not to improve the breed as without registering they can not contribute to the breed pool. I guess you now know how I feel about back yard breeders / puppy mills.

Marc.

[RBH]

$2,700 for a labradoodle? People pay it but Go figure! It is amazing to me that people will pay twice as much for a cross bred dog as they will for a purebred where at least you have the prospect of getting some of the cost back in breeding fees if you are so inclined (cross breeds are not CKC registered.)

As someone said above, it is worth finding a good breeder that is in it for the love of the animals and not for the money (whether talking about purebreds or otherwise.) This is particularly true for popular breeds such as labs and goldens, where hip displasia is rampant.

You mentioned flat coated retrievers -- I had a flattie and he was a wonderful animal, sorely missed indeed. :cry: If you want to know more about the breed or would like the breeder's name, PM me.

[Iron Glove]

When we got our Toller 7 years ago, we signed a non breeding contract and in any event had her fixed. No problem, we knew what we were signing and had absolutely no intent on breeding anyways - I leave that to the experts.
As stated by others, the initial cost of your dog is the least of your expenditures - amortize it over a 10 - 15 year life span and it's likely less per year than you spend on the dog's toys.
Re the breeder making a great living out of it, first of all, so what? If it's a legitimate business and they provide a good "product" who cares? Don't buy the dog if you object. Our breeder now charges $1,500 a pup. Now with a litter of say 8, that's $12,000 income. Sounds like a lotta money but the costs are high in raising the pups. She lost an entire litter to parvo one year so no $12,000 income but still a ton of expenditures.
My Sister is one of Canada'a top breeders and "experts" in a particular breed of ankle biter and no, she is not rich. By the time you add up all the expenses, it's at best a rewarding hobby that pays for itself plus a little in the pocket.

[labguy]

Re the breeder making a great living out of it, first of all, so what? If it's a legitimate business and they provide a good "product" who cares?
Sorry but I have to disagree with this.

Not all "breeders" provide a "good product".........

Someone who breeds their own dog so they can get a pup out of that litter, is much more likely doing it for the right reasons. They saw characteristics in their dog that they wanted to improve or enhance by breeding to an acceptable mate.

I dislike the concept of "breeders". While they make all the right noises to their clients, ("this is a wonderful combination out of great parents who are known producers.championship lines, wonderful confimation......blah, blah blah") the bottom line is that it's mostly about the money.....which is not nobleist of motivations.

Give me a pup from a person who bred so they could get a pup for themselves anyday over a "breeder".

:neutral:Dislclamier: There are some "breeders" out there who do this for all the right reasons and this opinion is not intended to slam them all. I personally know of some who do a great job and are in fact doing it for breed improvement. Best thing is do your research before buying a pup.

And...............as for non breeding agreements??? I would never buy a dog with this attachment...........ever. The world doesn't need any more self-righteous, sef-appointed police........especially puppy police:mad:

[Kasomor]

I see is as a complete picture thing. It's all about educating yourself before you slap your $$ down.

I know numerous people who say they are breeding so they can keep a pup out of that breeding. Hello! These people "breeders/ puppy mills" all ready have upwards of 15 to 20 adult dogs, breed 3, 4 or more litters per year and their house is a revolving door for dogs/ pups that are not "turning out" they way they expected! Would I buy a pup from them because they are breeding to keep a pup for themselves? Hell NO! How an individual, or couple, unless it is a full time job for both of them, has the time required to work the dogs, let alone care for and feed that amount of dogs and the resulting pups is beyond me.

It's in the Lab Club of BC COE also that "The breeder should sell puppies with a CKC non-breeding contract" Same with the Golden Retriever Club of BC COE "Reputable breeders sell all their pet puppies on non-breeding contracts." Hmmm...are they trying to be self appointed, self righteous puppy police? I would think the COE of the Lab Club of Canada and the Golden Retriever Club of Canada is says much the same. I know most of the other breed club say the same thing too.

I've always thought the Non-Breeding Contract was to protect the puppy and ultimately the breed. Which should be foremost in a breeders mind not the fact that some people don't like rules and don't like being told what to do. Basic contract that goes along with a non-breeding is for the owner to prove that the dog is worthy of breeding. It's not onerous.

I'm in the process of looking for a pup. It is a daunting task. I know to much. :icon_frow

Kasomor

[labguy]

.

I've always thought the Non-Breeding Contract was to protect the puppy and ultimately the breed. Which should be foremost in a breeders mind not the fact that some people don't like rules and don't like being told what to do. Basic contract that goes along with a non-breeding is for the owner to prove that the dog is worthy of breeding. It's not onerous.

That's the theory all right, however some breeders (particularly those of the so-called rare breeds) have been known to use this agreement to keep others from breeding pups and thus allowing the original breeder an uncompetative market place to charge ridiculous prices for their own pups......all done in the name of ethical breeding for the betterment of the breed??????????..................give me a break!!!!!

You will never legislate good and honorable behavior..........no matter how well intentioned the legislation reads or the code of ethics is written, there will always be ways around it for unscrupulous and dishonorable people..........always.

If someone wanted me to sign an Non Breeding Contract, I'd tell them to take three more just like it, turn them sideways and shove them all up their pompous self-righteous ........:mad:.....well, you get the idea.

And..........as far as the CKC is concerned.....I wouldn't give 2 cents for any wisdom that comes out of that dysfunctional consortium of nit wits.

I guess I just know too much as well.:icon_frow

[Lots'oLabs]

I see is as a complete picture thing. It's all about educating yourself before you slap your $$ down.

I know numerous people who say they are breeding so they can keep a pup out of that breeding. Hello! These people "breeders/ puppy mills" all ready have upwards of 15 to 20 adult dogs, breed 3, 4 or more litters per year and their house is a revolving door for dogs/ pups that are not "turning out" they way they expected! Would I buy a pup from them because they are breeding to keep a pup for themselves? Hell NO! How an individual, or couple, unless it is a full time job for both of them, has the time required to work the dogs, let alone care for and feed that amount of dogs and the resulting pups is beyond me.

It's in the Lab Club of BC COE also that "The breeder should sell puppies with a CKC non-breeding contract" Same with the Golden Retriever Club of BC COE "Reputable breeders sell all their pet puppies on non-breeding contracts." Hmmm...are they trying to be self appointed, self righteous puppy police? I would think the COE of the Lab Club of Canada and the Golden Retriever Club of Canada is says much the same. I know most of the other breed club say the same thing too.

I've always thought the Non-Breeding Contract was to protect the puppy and ultimately the breed. Which should be foremost in a breeders mind not the fact that some people don't like rules and don't like being told what to do. Basic contract that goes along with a non-breeding is for the owner to prove that the dog is worthy of breeding. It's not onerous.

I'm in the process of looking for a pup. It is a daunting task. I know to much. :icon_frow

Kasomor

Hi there Lab guy and Kasomor:)

I think you two are coming from 2 different directions.
Kasomor, you may not realize that in the "World of Field Trial" there are reletively few breedings that take place. When it is done, the pups go primarliy to competitive homes. The resulting pups are regularly seen by it's breeder at licensed events. If the resulting dog turns out to be a good dog, then perhaps a bitch from the litter may be bread and the breedline lives on and the pups go onto to other field trialers. For this reason none of us would ever consider a no breeding contract.

An example of this is a female Lab here on Van. Isle. For several years she was high point female dog in Canada. She had 2 litters only. Most of the pups went to working homes. Resulting pups are having successful careers.
Only 1 of the females she gave birth to have gone on to have pups. You can read about them in this month's Dogs in Canada.
There is no puppy mill involved and no financial gain in anybody's wallet, but there are some pretty good dogs because of her, all of which are in field trials or back east doing seal counts.

HOWEVER, having said that, Lab guy:), sadly what Kasomor says is true. There are a lot of unpleasant breeders out there who are pushing out multiple litters yearly without integrity to the breed. We all know this and I don't think it's an avenue any of us "in the know" would go to for a dog.
That's where this kind of Forum is a great place to exchange knowledge and assist potential new dog owners.

But, getting back to "How much is too much? I think the answer is in how much the buyer is willing to spend.
2K for a special little ankle biter? Obviously for some.
100K for That special F/T dog with National potential? Well maybe one day if there is a big lottery win coming my way!!:-D:-D

Deb
P.S. met a little guy today named Crash. VERY NICE!

[labguy]

Oh Deb, you little diplomat you...........:-D

[Lots'oLabs]

Hey there Kasomor,
If you are finding choosing a pup to be a daunting task, then come on over to the dark side.
Field breedings are (for the most part) ethical, well priced, $1000- $1500, fully health checked, and always have lots of talent behind our choices!

Afterall, it's in our best interest to maintain all of the above:-D

Sadly, we'd crap out in the show ring......
but we think our pooches are beautiful despite this.

Seriously.......

[Kasomor]

Ah...the dark side... beauty is all in the eye of the beholder they say.

Challenge yourself, get a toller, chessie or a flattie, anyone can train a lab. :mrgreen:

I'd be more likely to get on of those breeds then a lab. Labs are just so.....common?

That said, I get to hunt with The Black Bitches on a regular occasion. Even finished a MH title on one of them, that the pro had given up on. They are great dogs and a great field lab amazes me at the kind of work that they are capable of doing.

Cheers,
Kasomor

[Lots'oLabs]

Hey good comeback!

As my gal pals and I say "In order to play this game and play it well, ya gotta be an alpha b*tch."

But if you really want to experience the dark side get yourself a big black boy:lol:

Glad that we can all have fun with this.

[Islandeer]

[quote=Lots'oLabs;581288]Hey good comeback!



But if you really want to experience the dark side get yourself a big black boy:lol:

LOL!!! Trump ...:wink:

[dutchie]

hahaha I got you all beat! (us dog snobs are way to much fun to get going!)

Get yourself a DK, DD or DL and bring them through the German tests! you will have your heads spinning... although mine is probably spinning a little faster! and if you don't like the dog... you have only spent $800-$1000:mrgreen: and from my breeder, there are no contracts!

I remember in grade 3 we did a plege of allegance to BC and it went something a little like this... "I live in BC and I must own a Lab"

i belive that it is part of the BC code of conduct! (the fam. use to have a Lab so i full filled my duty)

Dutchie

On the flip side... this thread is compleatly hijacked!:-D

[Lots'oLabs]

I know!!
I keep trying to bring it back but it's just too much fun!

[Kasomor]

[quote=Lots'oLabs;581288]Hey good comeback!



But if you really want to experience the dark side get yourself a big black boy:lol:

LOL!!! Trump ...:wink:

OMG!! Mercy, mercy!! I give!!

Any answer that I have is x-rated. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Kasomor