Broadhead testing

[greybark]

In the latest Traditional Bowhunting magazine is a great article on the three types of broadheads ( mech , modual - replacable blades and fixed) . It applies to all forms of bows and provides insites and answers to their various performances .
The best article on broadhead performance I have read and is highly recommended as MUST reading to all bowhunters both newbys and experienced REGARDLESS of bow type used .
Cheers

[Bow Walker]

Sometimes those magazines are very hard to come by - way out here in the 'bushes'...

I'll probably have to wait 'til I get into town to pick one up.

[Nooker77]

I've done the "leather test myself! 2 blade passes through the BEST..But I cant shoot a blade@290ft/sec! Never fly right!! I just shot a doe tonight with a crimson talon 125 gr! Great flight for a fixed blade..did pass through at 30yds BUT I wont be able to use it again...blades have little chips in it and very dull for one kill and at almust 45$$ for 3 heads...yikes!! Going back to my WASP jackhammers!! My 2 cents!

[huntwriter]

It was the first article I read when I received Traditional Bowhunting in the mailbox. It's a great article to read for every bowhunter.


Nooker77 - I have used, and still do, the broadhead leather test for many years in my bowhunting courses and seminars. However, I am the first to admit that there is a huge difference pushing a broadhead with the hand through leather and shooting the same with a bow. By shooting a broadhead with any bow most types will pentrate sufficiently to kill any animal with ease. Still it is an impressive test that always gets a lot attention. With that said the only consideration as to the choice of broadhead should be, as you mention, arrow flight. The best broadhead is the one that provides the shooter with streight arrow flight and that can vary from bow to bow and from shooter to shooter.

[Nooker77]

AGREED Arrow flight is priority 1 for me then penetration/blood trail! I just scored on a small 2pt this afternoon! Again I used the vrimson talon 125gr! Great flight and a complete pass through again..30yds quartered away..hit him mid ribs and passed through top of other shoulder..buck ran 40yds tops and cart wheeled in the snow...what a great way to end my season! 2 bowkills in 2 days!! Yeeehaw! BUT Again the broadhead is toast...blades all chipped to crap and duller than hell!! SO 2 heads on 2 deer @ 45 bones for 3 heads..ouch..only good for yotal dogs and grouse next season!!:evil:

[rocksteady]

Can you give us a quick and dirty summary of what the article says???

Without copyright infringement, of course:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[greybark]

:wink: Hey Rocksteady , I have used thunderheads (replacable blades) for over 20 years and Satillite fixed two blade for 10 years had no complaints .
This study was an eye opener as to percentage of malfunction with the three types of broadheads . After 30 years of bowhunting I will definitely go from TH`s and their replacable blades back to fixed two blade with bleeders .
Interesting that thirty years ago when using compounds I reduced my arrow speed to 230 fps to get good flight with the fixed blades .
:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.
Rs get the mag for this article it is worth it .. We owe it to the game we hunt ...
Cheers

[MikeH]

I would like to read this said article,I've used thunderheads 125gr for 15 yrs great broad head. haven't had a chipped blade yet usually the carbon arrow take the hit.I haven't used mechanicals yet don't think I will to many moving parts.

[Ambush]

[quote=greybark;574730]:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.

Well, when I get good enough to sneak close to an animal and shove the arrow in, I'll switch to two blade fixed.

SO much more physics and involved when shooting different bows.

Take a thin nail and try to press it slowly into a piece of hard wood. It will likely bend. Now take the same kind of nail and the hardwood and shoot it in with a nail gun. Total penetration. Physics at work.

Don't tell me that I am an un-ethical hunter because I use a QUALITY mechanical broadhead.

If I was only shooting to twenty yards, I wouldn't give a hoot about down-range accuracy either. I'd just shoot a two inch, four blade on a heavy stiff arrow.

I'm not telling you to shoot mechanicals, but alot of dead animals are telling me that they work great.

[huntwriter]

Well, when I get good enough to sneak close to an animal and shove the arrow in, I'll switch to two blade fixed.

SO much more physics and involved when shooting different bows.

Take a thin nail and try to press it slowly into a piece of hard wood. It will likely bend. Now take the same kind of nail and the hardwood and shoot it in with a nail gun. Total penetration. Physics at work.

That is what I said in my first comment. "I have used, and still do, the broadhead leather test for many years in my bowhunting courses and seminars. However, I am the first to admit that there is a huge difference pushing a broadhead with the hand through leather and shooting the same with a bow."

You're absolutely right ANY quality broadhead, be that fixed, replaceable or mechanical blades, shot from a well tuned bow by a proficient shooter WILL KILL any deer.

[xtremearchery]

have never conducted a leather test, but I have wrapped a late season deer hide around a block target. Deep penetration all the time. I am a firm believer that if your bow it set up and tuned properly, arrow flight will be more offten than not consistent. I have never had a problem with mechanical broadheads. The latest ones are awesome! Rage 3 blades, 2 bears. Undertakers, 1 w/t. Nap Spitfire SFMaxx, 2 deer, 1 bear. 99% of them were all pass throughs. I also use slick tricks, which fly the same as the mechanical. What ever comes out of my quiver gets the honors.

[hardnocks]

all those test are just to sell magazines to the masses. if you take a cheap broad head bought at wally mart. if its sharp and flies good ...and YOU make a good shot it will work just fine........ i shoot what i like and that's slicktricks or magnass stingers ..you shoot what you like and are comfortable with.

[Nooker77]

Well the crimson talon flew amazing for a fixed head...shot each one ONCE to check flight..all flew perfect! I still think the WASP Jackhammer is my first choice Great head and have shot 4 animals with them..all but 1 was a pass through..the one that didnt came half way out the other shoulder blade!! Got the job done for sure!

[rocksteady]

I have used the wasp JakHammer and the Rage 3 broadheads with excellent results...

Was reading an article in NorthAmerican Hunter this morning, Chuck Adams was also stating that it really does not matter what head you use as long as they are QUALITY heads and you know how they fly...

[greybark]

:-D Hey Ambush , No-body has accused anyone of being unethical .
I think all should read the Article before commenting as my post was ment to inform and not to confront .....

[Bow Walker]

[quote=greybark;574730]:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.


Well, when I get good enough to sneak close to an animal and shove the arrow in, I'll switch to two blade fixed.

SO much more physics and involved when shooting different bows.

Take a thin nail and try to press it slowly into a piece of hard wood. It will likely bend. Now take the same kind of nail and the hardwood and shoot it in with a nail gun. Total penetration. Physics at work.

Don't tell me that I am an un-ethical hunter because I use a QUALITY mechanical broadhead.

If I was only shooting to twenty yards, I wouldn't give a hoot about down-range accuracy either. I'd just shoot a two inch, four blade on a heavy stiff arrow.

I'm not telling you to shoot mechanicals, but alot of dead animals are telling me that they work great.

:???:As greybark stated - he's not calling anyone (let alone you) unethical. Nowhere, in this thread do I get any idea that anyone is pointing fingers.:confused:


:wink: Hey Rocksteady , I have used thunderheads (replacable blades) for over 20 years and Satillite fixed two blade for 10 years had no complaints .
This study was an eye opener as to percentage of malfunction with the three types of broadheads . After 30 years of bowhunting I will definitely go from TH`s and their replacable blades back to fixed two blade with bleeders .
Interesting that thirty years ago when using compounds I reduced my arrow speed to 230 fps to get good flight with the fixed blades .
:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.
Rs get the mag for this article it is worth it .. We owe it to the game we hunt ...
Cheers
:wink:Thirty years ago broadheads were not of the "skeletal design" that they are these days. This skeletal design lessens the wind planning effect dramatically, allowing archers to tune the arrow so that broadheads will now fly just like field points...(or mechs).:)

BTW, I looked for that issue and couldn't find it. The issue that I picked up is now talking about F.O.C. and arrow dynamics. Another great read. Looks as if I'll have to break down and actually subscribe to this rag...:wink:


all those test are just to sell magazines to the masses. if you take a cheap broad head bought at wally mart. if its sharp and flies good ...and YOU make a good shot it will work just fine........ i shoot what i like and that's slicktricks or magnass stingers ..you shoot what you like and are comfortable with.
Yes, the idea is to sell the magazines to the "great unwashed" - thereby educating and providing quality information.:!:

The idea here is not to single out any particular type of shooting style or ridicule that style, but to give information by which dedicated archers/hunters can improve there chances of 'harvesting' game and killing that game as quickly as possible.

When a person is hunting the idea IS all about using sharp broadheads and arrow (shot) placement. Hell, if it were legal, you could conceivabley kill a deer with a well-place arrow tipped with a field point!

[Maverick7]

[quote=greybark;574730]:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.


Well, when I get good enough to sneak close to an animal and shove the arrow in, I'll switch to two blade fixed.

SO much more physics and involved when shooting different bows.

Take a thin nail and try to press it slowly into a piece of hard wood. It will likely bend. Now take the same kind of nail and the hardwood and shoot it in with a nail gun. Total penetration. Physics at work.

Don't tell me that I am an un-ethical hunter because I use a QUALITY mechanical broadhead.

If I was only shooting to twenty yards, I wouldn't give a hoot about down-range accuracy either. I'd just shoot a two inch, four blade on a heavy stiff arrow.

I'm not telling you to shoot mechanicals, but alot of dead animals are telling me that they work great.


totall agree. i shoot mechs and i love them. no issues here. i shott rage and am actually working on going proshooter cause i lovem so much. I'd only go back if i was shotting something slower than my dream season but now they have that figured out with the 40 kinetic energy models.

[huntwriter]

all those test are just to sell magazines to the masses. if you take a cheap broad head bought at wally mart. if its sharp and flies good ...and YOU make a good shot it will work just fine........ i shoot what i like and that's slicktricks or magnass stingers ..you shoot what you like and are comfortable with.

As an outdoor writer I agree with you. Articles are written to sell magazine but also to pass along valuable information. No writer can be successful by just writing something that makes no sense or has no value to the readers.

Part of being a good writer, as in successful writer, is to have the nose to the ground and be keenly aware what hunters want to know. Forums like HuntingBC and others related to hunting are a writers best tool to keep in touch with current hunter issues and desires.

[greybark]

The Trad Bowhunter magazine is Oct/Nov issue (Thats what happens when you freeze up in Rock Ck for three weeks. It is their Twentieth Anniversary Issue ....
:neutral: To further clarify the modular (replacible blades) blades which I currantly use as stated placed second and to further emphasis their percentage was also terrible.
Also interesting was the broadhead "Skipping and cartwheeling" factor which previous to now I did not think to much about .
:wink: PS . I don`t own any shares in this magazine LOL .

[Bowzone_Mikey]

hmmm I would like to read this article and figure out what heads they were comparing .... top shelf fixed with bargain basement mechs? do they compare apples to apples .... ...

I shot mechs in a windy enviroment up till 3 years ago ... I shoot mechs now ... they harvest just as clean ... if it aint broke ...dont fix it ... the only time I have had a broken blade or any issue with my mechs ... is this year .. I shot a 46 yrd grouse for 35 ... (it was a big Grouse;) ) ...needless to say the arrow hit the rock trail ahead of it ... and skipped off just to the side of the grouse ...broke a blade ... in a 30 stretch sometime later .. I had replaced the blade and was good to go again and infact harvested me a nice fat doe.. took out the top of the heart and caught the one lung .... she went about 25 yards and the blood trail was like the yellow brick road.

[greybark]

:-D Hey Mikey , Several brands were mentioned .
Cheers

[Ambush]

:wink: First place goes to fixed broadheads , second to modular(replaceable blades) and a schockingly miserable performace percentage to mechanicals.
.. We owe it to the game we hunt ...
Cheers[/quote]

So I owe it to the game to use fixed blades? If not I'm......?

Greybark, I've read enough of your posts to know your not antagonistic and I don't take it as such. But to say that a quality mechanical is an inferior tool is just wrong. I could well say that you shouldn't use a trad bow because it is inferior to a compound. Would I be right?

An ethical hunter will limit himself to his own and his equipment's ability, no matter what tool he is using. I think we can all agree on that and to each his own.

[Ambush]

Bowwalker. I know you hate mechanicals as much as you love Vortex.
I've killed over twenty big game animals with mechanicals including bears, deer, moose, goat, sheep. For me, they work, and I'll continue to use them for various reasons.
I kinda feel like you're climbing my frame for no good reason.:confused:

[Bow Walker]

On the contrary Ambush. While I am not a mech shooter, I believe that whatever gets the job done for you is what you shoud use.

I started out using mechs and graduated to fixed/replaceable blade a season (or two) into my hunting 'history'. I have had good luck with Slick Trick, therefore I am a fan. I have three other brands in my repertoire but haven't used them yet.

I just seem to keep reaching for the Slicks, as they haven't let me down. In fact, I've taken 4 deer with the same head. I just keep re-sharpening it.

Personally I'm all about whatever works for the individual. It just seemed like you were jumping all over greybark - who, btw, doesn't need my defence.

[greybark]

:-D Hey Ambush , I did not pay much attention but was aware of problems with earlier mech broadheads and even then adopted the attitude that they will evolve and to each his own .
This article had an impact on me because of poor ratings of the broadheads that I presently use . I was aware that the ferrels of the modular did bend on some game and a few blades dislodged . After years of convenient blade replacment (verus sharpening) the inherient stubborness of Clan McDia worn down a little and perhaps a different blade would be better for ME .
Ambush I have been at this game long enough to realise that a Bowhunters dedication will steer him to what he thinks is best and at no time would I dictate what type of blade to use . I did not say fixed blades were the ethical way to go . Perhapes I should have posted " we owe it to the game we hunt to research and be confident with our gear . Hey It is obvious I did`t win any Pulitzer Prize.
:-D I singled out no one and as for climbing anyones frame hell it took me 70 years of age to mellow out and I like at that .
:-D Hey BZ Mikey ,some of the blades mentioned were NAP Spitfires ,Steelhead 125 s(advertized as the toughest blade in the world) ,G-5 Tekan , Tekan 125 ,The Rage, Grizzly Two Blade , I was relutant to post this as not wanting a comparison war .
Cheers all and try to read the article with an open mind , to each his own ....

[Ambush]

Ed Ashby has an excellent article on maximizing arrow penetration in a recent P&Y quarterly. I'm sure it is available somewhere on the net.

Although aimed more at trad hunters, much of the dynamics apply to all arrows shot into big game. I'm changing a few things because of his findings. I'm slow to change, but I can if it is warranted.

I'm just not sure how far on the other side of an animal the bloody arrow has to fall to be considered enough penetration.:tongue:

[peashooter]

what kind of mech heads are you having success with out there? is the biggest problem with them not opening or breaking?

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I use Steelheads (either original or XP) and have never had a problem with them glancing off, not opening, or little or no penitration ...

the key is to pick good percentage shots ... if an animal is quartering hard .. truth of the matter is with any head (fixed or mechanical) your traget goes from proverbial 9" pie plate to a very skinny oval .... if you miss that skinny oval .. it will skip off ...
want proof? Take a plate .. hold it broadside infront of you ... now turn it broadside ...see the profile get smaller ...when shooting a quartering away animal .. you gotta hit a smaller target ... further back on the animal ...alot of people (average joe) dont wanna hit an animal that far back for fear of hitting guts

all mech bashing is ... Traditional Elitests not accepting change .... its well documented that the majority of hunters dont like or even fear change and technological advancements .... espcially if it involves stuff that they use (example: Broadheads ... Bullets..shape... compositionetc...) Most I have found have the attitude that ... This stuff has killed animals for 100 years .. why should I look at something else ... it cant be any better ...kills em just as dead ...

Its up to us to Harvest each animal as ethically as possible ... if a new peice of technolgy makes for a quicker cleaner harvest then we owe ourselves to look at it

[Bow Walker]

Ed Ashby has an excellent article on maximizing arrow penetration in a recent P&Y quarterly. I'm sure it is available somewhere on the net.

Although aimed more at trad hunters, much of the dynamics apply to all arrows shot into big game. I'm changing a few things because of his findings. I'm slow to change, but I can if it is warranted.

I'm just not sure how far on the other side of an animal the bloody arrow has to fall to be considered enough penetration.:tongue:
This is what I'm think too. Some of the data is transferable to compounds, but how much? Same thing with his next article on "Understanding F.o.C." I guess it will take a bit of test shooting and playing with arrow dynamics to find out for sure.

Great. Bring it on. I love fiddling around with my toys.:wink:

[greybark]

:-D Hey BZMikey , This has nothing to do with your statement regarding the "Trad Elitest" thing . Fred Asbell did the tests with a Recurve and a Compound bow . To bring this up is nonproductive ..
:wink:As far those so called "Trad Elitests" resisting change you have not seen my collection of bows and associated gear . One example of we Trads accepting change is the high percentage of hybrid longbows in use . In fifteen years we have gone from 0 to 80% , that is some change .:wink:
:wink: There are parts of this and his previous articles I have concern with ,however he does his best to present his findings in an unbiased manner.. As bowhunters we research and make up our own minds .
Cheers and try to keep warm:tongue:

[Ambush]

I control one part of the equation. That is to have a bow/arrow/broadhead/accessories package that will shoot consistently well out to eighty yards.

After that, I will depend on the science and experience based knowledge of the folks that have the time and equipment to extract the information to make my set-up lethal.
I will sacrifice one thing to gain something more important. I will sacrifice range to get more accuracy. I may give up a tiny edge in accuracy to gain more penetration or a bigger wound channel.

Eveything is a trade-off. The trick is to maximize your efficiency to your particular hunting scenerio. The perfect set-up for hunting the thick bush of the Island, would be woefuly inadequate for stone sheep or praire muleys.

Pick your game and tailer your gear and shooting to match.:)

[Bowzone_Mikey]

:-D Hey BZMikey , This has nothing to do with your statement regarding the "Trad Elitest" thing . Fred Asbell did the tests with a Recurve and a Compound bow . To bring this up is nonproductive ..
:wink:As far those so called "Trad Elitests" resisting change you have not seen my collection of bows and associated gear . One example of we Trads accepting change is the high percentage of hybrid longbows in use . In fifteen years we have gone from 0 to 80% , that is some change .:wink:
:wink: There are parts of this and his previous articles I have concern with ,however he does his best to present his findings in an unbiased manner.. As bowhunters we research and make up our own minds .
Cheers and try to keep warm:tongue:

Perhaps Traditional Elitest was the wrong choice of words given the context ...... I ment hunters in general

should I have otherwise said Crochity old coots that are stuck in their ways and that their way is the best no matter how archiac they might be and are so closed minded as to not even look at new products technologys ....

Traditional Elitests seemed to roll off the tougne much nicer

[greybark]

:tongue: Hey BZMikey , Perhapes your cold weather has something to do with it !!!!
Cheers