Hunting Region 4

[BBD77]

just sending a reminder too people that did not know that there was durastic proposals/changes that were possibly coming for the 2010/11 hunting season. they are open for public input till Dec. 10.

Access to the proposed changes is online at the BC gov't website

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/wld/Proposed_reg_changes.html



some are just brutal and i hope never happen!!!!!!!!!! its hunting ....not killing!:???:

[GoatGuy]

some are just brutal and i hope never happen!!!!!!!!!! its hunting ....not killing!:???:

Looks like you've got an opinion and it seems to be grounded solidly in facts.

Too bad biologists didn't manage wildlife like that.

[Everett]

Dec 1 was the deadline so you chance to speak has passed

[Stone Sheep Steve]

just sending a reminder too people that did not know that there was durastic proposals/changes that were possibly coming for the 2010/11 hunting season. they are open for public input till Dec. 10.

Access to the proposed changes is online at the BC gov't website

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/wld/Proposed_reg_changes.html



some are just brutal and i hope never happen!!!!!!!!!! its hunting ....not killing!:???:


You didn't happen to send around an email around hoping to get signatures against these proposals did you??

SSS

[Everett]

A member who just joined less tha 6 weeks ago just about the time the region 4 proposals came out and he or she is against resident hunter opportunity. I wonder what he or she does for a living?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A member who just joined less tha 6 weeks ago just about the time the region 4 proposals came out and he or she is against resident hunter opportunity. I wonder what he or she does for a living?

Engineer in training???:wink:

SSS

[Everett]

Engineer in training???:wink:

SSS

So you figure he wants to drive the GOABC train eh:wink:

[grizzlybasinhunter]

I feel the bioligists never seem to contemplate the increased pressure on all species concerned with these open seasons. the hunters flocking to these seasons in the kootenays will undoubtedly also see and harvest non target game as well. The numbers of hunters in the kootenays is at an all time high now and hunter conflicts are becoming common place. the proposed changes will bring a decline to all big game and the changes are too general in nature. might as well place an open season sign on the kootenays as opening day will be a gong show throughout the region.

[GoatGuy]

I feel the bioligists never seem to contemplate the increased pressure on all species concerned with these open seasons. the hunters flocking to these seasons in the kootenays will undoubtedly also see and harvest non target game as well. The numbers of hunters in the kootenays is at an all time high now and hunter conflicts are becoming common place. the proposed changes will bring a decline to all big game and the changes are too general in nature. might as well place an open season sign on the kootenays as opening day will be a gong show throughout the region.

Here we go - nice name!

How high are the hunter numbers and what have they been for the past 30 years? Give every year?

How would the proposed changes bring a decline to big game? Use numbers to substantiate your claim.

Not interested in the BS arbitrary opinions. Try to come up with some form of FACT to support what you're trying to say.

[grizzlybasinhunter]

:???:
I am not a biologist and have nothing to prove with my reply. simpy a hunter in the area concerned that has noticed a large increase in hunter concentration in the the kootenay area. it is easy to be concerned with hunter numbers when you drive up one road and there is a camper, quad, truck, rayzer on every corner. there are simply not enough roads for all the road hunters from every corner of the province to access. my point simply remains that the targeted species will also increase the hunter conflict and concentration. no numbers just personal observation. not sure why i need exact numbers as i thought this was a forum for hunters not government officials with exact numbers.:confused:

[bforce750]

Dec 1 was the deadline so you chance to speak has passed
They are still accepting suggestions

[grizzlybasinhunter]

In addition, the poaching in the area is also at an all time high, and this is straight from the conservation officers. although i still dont have exact numbers for this either. so i should not be speaking on it i guess.

[GoatGuy]

:???:
I am not a biologist and have nothing to prove with my reply. simpy a hunter in the area concerned that has noticed a large increase in hunter concentration in the the kootenay area. it is easy to be concerned with hunter numbers when you drive up one road and there is a camper, quad, truck, rayzer on every corner. there are simply not enough roads for all the road hunters from every corner of the province to access. my point simply remains that the targeted species will also increase the hunter conflict and concentration. no numbers just personal observation. not sure why i need exact numbers as i thought this was a forum for hunters not government officials with exact numbers.:confused:

So basically you're giving me a bile of BS about all the people who were on the roads.

Just got rid of the steers, don't need any more of it.

Was under the impression in your first post you were concerned about over-harvest, now we're talking about hunter conflict?

Which is it?

[GoatGuy]

In addition, the poaching in the area is also at an all time high, and this is straight from the conservation officers. although i still dont have exact numbers for this either. so i should not be speaking on it i guess.

What kind of kills? Which species? Are we talking about 5 pt bulls? Grizzly bears, elk, deer, turkeys, moose, what?

Sounds like bar talk.

[Everett]

I feel the bioligists never seem to contemplate the increased pressure on all species concerned with these open seasons. the hunters flocking to these seasons in the kootenays will undoubtedly also see and harvest non target game as well. The numbers of hunters in the kootenays is at an all time high now and hunter conflicts are becoming common place. the proposed changes will bring a decline to all big game and the changes are too general in nature. might as well place an open season sign on the kootenays as opening day will be a gong show throughout the region.

Well if you read the proposals you would see that by getting rid of the LEH in WK all those WK guys will stay home and alot of OK and LML hunters will stop there instead of the EK. I personaly hunted 46 days in the EK this year and in my opinion there was no more hunters than normal but the early snows concentrated them down low. There may have been an increase of days from local guys from the forest industry who were working the EI hunting team.
If this extreme hunting pressure truly existed there should be no 6 points left at this point so why am I seeing them hanging around the edge of the highway everyday.
Hunters have to wrap there head around the fact that the Elk are over the carrying capacity of the winter range as it stand right now so either we kill alot more Elk or a bad winter comes along and they starve. The other option is the winter range is improved through logging, burning and the banning of cattle on the winter range. But don't hold your breath on that.
As for WT deer who cares they are like rats you, could not get rid of them if you tried.

[bforce750]

Here we go - nice name!

How high are the hunter numbers and what have they been for the past 30 years? Give every year?

How would the proposed changes bring a decline to big game? Use numbers to substantiate your claim.

Not interested in the BS arbitrary opinions. Try to come up with some form of FACT to support what you're trying to say.
Well to keep it simple,just like your reply,more and more every year.Now to answer your last question,early bow season most people end up taking a spike buck or a doe because they didnt find there elk on the road.If you think your having hard time finding an elk or a 4-point muley now,just wait and see how many animals are going to be taken next year.But that's right you and everyone will just travel elsewhere to locations B.C. where the game isn't managed properly and hunt the sh!t of of it too until its all dried up.

[Everett]

In addition, the poaching in the area is also at an all time high, and this is straight from the conservation officers. although i still dont have exact numbers for this either. so i should not be speaking on it i guess.


Poaching is at an all time high for two reason
1. People are out of work and short of food.
2. Frustration with stupid restriction.

Personaly found two poached elk last weekend called the CO they said odds are it was natives.
The poaching that is definatly going on is when a hunter shoots a 5 by accident than says the hell with it and takes it home any way.

[wetcoasthunter]

shoot the s*** out of, slaughter, mass murder, kill kill die die, gong show, LML slobs, island a-holes, ahhhh gotta love the NIMBY vocabulary:wink:

[bforce750]

shoot the s*** out of, slaughter, mass murder, kill kill die die, gong show, LML slobs, island a-holes, ahhhh gotta love the NIMBY vocabulary:wink:
We have them up here too :biggrin:

[Everett]

Natives??? If it was region 4...I would say it was Polygamists ;)

Hey them polygamists have a lot of kids to feed:razz:

[PGK]

Do you guys from the island ever wonder why you get called those things? From everyone in the interior? Everywhere.....has that ever dawned on you? Just wondering.

[grizzlybasinhunter]

I was actually speaking towards the proposed regulation changes for the kootenay region big game animals. Such as elk, whitetail and mule deer. That is what most of the proposed changes are pertaining too. The numbers are doing well in response to the control seasons we have now. a general open season will only bring more hunters and pressure to the limited roads we have now. A prime example was the General open season for spike fork moose this season in region 4. One area in paritcular received an extraordinary amount of pressure, namely the yahk area of region four. in speaking with the CO's there were four or five spike fork moose taken and the sales for moose tags were massive. in my opinion it was more of a cash grab than a moose season. :neutral:

[bforce750]

I was actually speaking towards the proposed regulation changes for the kootenay region big game animals. Such as elk, whitetail and mule deer. That is what most of the proposed changes are pertaining too. The numbers are doing well in response to the control seasons we have now. a general open season will only bring more hunters and pressure to the limited roads we have now. A prime example was the General open season for spike fork moose this season in region 4. One area in paritcular received an extraordinary amount of pressure, namely the yahk area of region four. in speaking with the CO's there were four or five spike fork moose taken and the sales for moose tags were massive. in my opinion it was more of a cash grab than a moose season. :neutral:I was 1 of those 4 or 5 :biggrin:

[sawmill]

OK quit yelling at each other.There IS alot of elk here and a shitload of whities.I have no problem with a GOS on whitie does and in CERTAIN areas a more liberal elk harvest.We could do with a short calf elk season say in late October.It IS a gong show here the last 2 years for the first 3 weeks of elk.Everybody figures there is a monster 6x6 behind every tree.I have lived and hunted here for 12 years and I never saw so many roadside trailer parks in my life.It`s like the Hells Angels showed up with 36 foot Vanguard fifth wheelers and 2 quads each.I miss the old days when a guy could have a nice set up and actually see game.
How ever those days are gone and as a place like this gains more popularity you have too expect more guys to come here.F%ckall you can do about it,I know real nice guys who spend good money to have that 2 weeks and worked and saved for it.
The best thing we as locals can do is buy real estate now because in 10 years all the hunters who fell in love with this area will want to live here.
Then we`ll get `em:mrgreen:

[Everett]

[quote= in my opinion it was more of a cash grab than a moose season. :neutral:[/quote]

I will agree with that big freaking cash grab. But some people have a moose in there freezer so good for them. Wish I had one.

[Everett]

[quote=sawmill;568147.It`s like the Hells Angels showed up with 36 foot Vanguard fifth wheelers and 2 quads each.

Now thats funny:biggrin:

[grizzlybasinhunter]

Do you know of anyone else that harvested one? Were you hunting specifically for one at the time? i seen more hunters this year in the region than ever before. It amazes me how far a person will travel for our turkey season as well. met quite a few ppl from the coast coming for a turkey. It brings money to the area i guess. they have to eat sleep and drink here!!!:-D:mrgreen:

[Everett]

Do you know of anyone else that harvested one? Were you hunting specifically for one at the time? i seen more hunters this year in the region than ever before. It amazes me how far a person will travel for our turkey season as well. met quite a few ppl from the coast coming for a turkey. It brings money to the area i guess. they have to eat sleep and drink here!!!:-D:mrgreen:

I heard a couple guys in Kimberley scored on them. Resident hunters coming to the EK drop alot of cash in our region mostly at small business to boot I wonder how much extra money the little ma and pops roadside gas station/general store bring in join hunting season.

[sawmill]

Do you know of anyone else that harvested one? Were you hunting specifically for one at the time? i seen more hunters this year in the region than ever before. It amazes me how far a person will travel for our turkey season as well. met quite a few ppl from the coast coming for a turkey. It brings money to the area i guess. they have to eat sleep and drink here!!!:-D:mrgreen:
Have you ever lived in the LML?I had to a long time ago,f%ckin hated it with all my hunters heart.I get sorta mad about about the influx of guys showing up here but at the same time I know how unbelievably exciting and wonderfull it is to be here in Gods country and I have taken guys from there and showed them some pretty nice places to hunt and camp.I`m good with that,mans gotta hunt right?If it was me I sure would apprieciate the good old fashioned kindness.Ask Hunter 1911,him and his Dad had a real nice trip,We are all Brothers under the skin.Some of us are just lucky to live where we do.

[bforce750]

I lived in chilliwack for 28 years and hated it,been hunting in the E.K. for only four years and decided to move here 9 months ago,best move ever.

[GoatGuy]

Well to keep it simple,just like your reply,more and more every year.Now to answer your last question,early bow season most people end up taking a spike buck or a doe because they didnt find there elk on the road.If you think your having hard time finding an elk or a 4-point muley now,just wait and see how many animals are going to be taken next year.But that's right you and everyone will just travel elsewhere to locations B.C. where the game isn't managed properly and hunt the sh!t of of it too until its all dried up.


I don't have a hard time finding a bull elk or a 4 point muley. I don't usually by an elk tag - I have no interest in shooting some rinky dink 300" bull when I could fill my freezer with moose. Usually see 50-70 4pts every year in Region 4 so I'm not worried about my hunting seasons over there.

Your game isn't managed that well, maybe that's the point.

Who cares if somebody shoots a spike buck or a doe during bow season? What does that have with sustainable hunting seasons?

Why do you think the MoE is making these proposals? Do you think they're doing it because they want to kill off all the wildlife?

You don't get it.

[GoatGuy]

So only your opinion counts here? Thats what sounds like bar talk to me !!!!

I usually stick to the numbers - makes life easy. I haven't voiced my opinion on this thread yet.:wink:

[GoatGuy]

I was actually speaking towards the proposed regulation changes for the kootenay region big game animals. Such as elk, whitetail and mule deer. That is what most of the proposed changes are pertaining too. The numbers are doing well in response to the control seasons we have now. a general open season will only bring more hunters and pressure to the limited roads we have now. A prime example was the General open season for spike fork moose this season in region 4. One area in paritcular received an extraordinary amount of pressure, namely the yahk area of region four. in speaking with the CO's there were four or five spike fork moose taken and the sales for moose tags were massive. in my opinion it was more of a cash grab than a moose season. :neutral:

The numbers of wt deer and mule deer have nothing to do with the buck hunting seasons, that's a fact.

At this point the numbers of elk have little to do with the elk population.

Shooting more bull moose/elk and mule/wt bucks will not affect the populations you currently have.

Are you trying to suggest that the hunting seasons around the Kootenay's aren't sustainable or are you complaining because there are other hunters out shooting ''your" wildlife?

[GoatGuy]

Have you ever lived in the LML?I had to a long time ago,f%ckin hated it with all my hunters heart.I get sorta mad about about the influx of guys showing up here but at the same time I know how unbelievably exciting and wonderfull it is to be here in Gods country and I have taken guys from there and showed them some pretty nice places to hunt and camp.I`m good with that,mans gotta hunt right?If it was me I sure would apprieciate the good old fashioned kindness.Ask Hunter 1911,him and his Dad had a real nice trip,We are all Brothers under the skin.Some of us are just lucky to live where we do.

100% correct.

[bforce750]

I don't have a hard time finding a bull elk or a 4 point muley. I don't usually by an elk tag - I have no interest in shooting some rinky dink 300" bull when I could fill my freezer with moose. Usually see 50-70 4pts every year in Region 4 so I'm not worried about my hunting seasons over there.

Your game isn't managed that well, maybe that's the point.

Who cares if somebody shoots a spike buck or a doe during bow season? What does that have with sustainable hunting seasons?

Why do you think the MoE is making these proposals? Do you think they're doing it because they want to kill off all the wildlife?

You don't get it.
Neither nor I have a hard time finding game,50-70 4-pnts BULLSH!T!!!! MULEYS????To answer your question,most of these propsals are to offer more hunter opportunity,General any bucks season on mule deer is going to have huge impact on the population AGAIN!!!!Besides The Archery season alone,and the same goes for the elk. What part do you think i dont understand? You wont see any legal 50-70 4 pts at all,let alone a spike.

[835]

Do you guys from the island ever wonder why you get called those things? From everyone in the interior? Everywhere.....has that ever dawned on you? Just wondering.


no please enlighten me PGK with your wisdom why should i be different from you

[GoatGuy]

Neither nor I have a hard time finding game,50-70 4-pnts BULLSH!T!!!! MULEYS????To answer your question,most of these propsals are to offer more hunter opportunity,General any bucks season on mule deer is going to have huge impact on the population AGAIN!!!!Besides The Archery season alone,and the same goes for the elk. What part do you think i dont understand? You wont see any legal 50-70 4 pts at all,let alone a spike.

That's why you don't get it. With any buck for muleys october you won't shoot enough deer to have a sperm supply problem. With wt's you won't either. Same goes with a 10 day 3 pt season. It's statistically impossible.

Deer/moose/elk populations are controlled by eggs and sperm. One bucks sperm can fill many does eggs. Does that make sense? You can have buck:doe or bull:cow ratios right down into the 3-5:100 and most all of the eggs will see swimmers. You're are currently nowhere near that and you won't be with the proposed changes. That's not opinion, that's FACT.

If you wanted to knock the populations back you'd need to shoot a bunch of does/cows - with the amount of hunting pressure you have shooting bucks only will not affect populations. It's no more complex than that.

Yes, 50-70 4 pts. Usually 5-10/day in the early season, things tapper off to a couple/day in October, sometimes more, and then in November average about 2-3/day. If the any buck season comes thorugh I'll probably see more big bucks because the guys who want to shoot a spike or two point can do that instead of having to shoot young 4 pts. Until November you won't find those deer burning gas and even then you won't see most of them.

If you're hunting in the EK and you aren't seeing 4 pts at least every other day it's time to change spots or start burning some boot leather.

[GoatGuy]

you may be focused on numbers but look at how seriously messed up the BC hunting regs are because of these inacurate false numbers over educated city slickers make the decisions on ;)

If you're looking at the hunting regs that's what we call 'social' issues. Has nothing to do with numbers.

[GoatGuy]

like hell it doesn't!

Why do we have a 6 point or bigger elk season in 4? Was it because of the large winter kill we experienced several years ago or was it because of a biologists that can't properly count hoofs in the snow? It's all about numbers.

because you had a bad winter and they were knocking the elk back at the same time.

What does the 6 pt season have to do with numbers now that you have a pile of elk?

[bforce750]

That's why you don't get it. With any buck for muleys october you won't shoot enough deer to have a sperm supply problem. With wt's you won't either. Same goes with a 10 day 3 pt season. It's statistically impossible.

Deer/moose/elk populations are controlled by eggs and sperm. One bucks sperm can fill many does eggs. Does that make sense? You can have buck:doe or bull:cow ratios right down into the 3-5:100 and most all of the eggs will see swimmers. You're are currently nowhere near that and you won't be with the proposed changes. That's not opinion, that's FACT.

If you wanted to knock the populations back you'd need to shoot a bunch of does/cows - with the amount of hunting pressure you have shooting bucks only will not affect populations. It's no more complex than that.

Yes, 50-70 4 pts. Usually 5-10/day in the early season, things tapper off to a couple/day in October, sometimes more, and then in November average about 2-3/day. If the any buck season comes thorugh I'll probably see more big bucks because the guys who want to shoot a spike or two point can do that instead of having to shoot young 4 pts. Until November you won't find those deer burning gas and even then you won't see most of them.

If you're hunting in the EK and you aren't seeing 4 pts at least every other day it's time to change spots or start burning some boot leather.
Like i said,I dont have a problem finding Legal ,bucks,moose,elk whatever,I LIVE HERE!!,Are you a biologist?If you are you should find another career,and well i"ll put it like this,little deer...become big deer one day,small elk become mature elk,if there arent any those you dont ever get any that mature.I think the biologists stats are just like yours B.S.

[GoatGuy]

I have never had a bad winter ever....so not sure what you mean by that????

As for the elk....someone said " OH MY GOD>...our elk are dying because of a bad winter and therefore we need to close the season to 6 point of bigger to make our herds come back stronger then ever!

To me less elk means more hunting restrictions for those animals and that is all about numbers.....correct??

I believe the recommendation was for LEH or possibly spike only. Luckily the locals wanted to maintain a GOS of some form otherwise it would probably still be on LEH.

Correct, at the time that was the reason.

The question is: what does the 6 pts season have to do with the numbers of elk you now have?

[GoatGuy]

Like i said,I dont have a problem finding Legal ,bucks,moose,elk whatever,I LIVE HERE!!,Are you a biologist?If you are you should find another career,and well i"ll put it like this,little deer...become big deer one day,small elk become mature elk,if there arent any those you dont ever get any that mature.I think the biologists stats are just like yours B.S.

What does mature deer and elk have to do with the population? I thought we were talking about the entire population, ie the size of the population? Number of animals?

Or are we talking about the number of mature animals?

I'm getting confused.


I think the biologists stats are just like yours B.S.

One of my favorite quotes.

[GoatGuy]

Because it's sad to see the little ones die ;)

:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Is that why most of the guys on here are shooting the first 6 pt they see?

[GoatGuy]

lol...yup........................

too funny. Don't shoot 3 pts, shoot a dink 6 pt. It'll look much better on display in the flower garden. hahhahaha

I guess it does have something to do with numbers. 3 pts vs 6 pts. Still a 'social issue'.

[bforce750]

Mine was pretty small too,no trophy thats for sure,And Goatguy history repeats itself thats all i'm saying,look what happend 15 years ago,slaughter!!!!

[wetcoasthunter]

and well i"ll put it like this,little deer...become big deer one day,small elk become mature elk,if there arent any those you dont ever get any that mature.I think the biologists stats are just like yours B.S.

Age is only 1 aspect

Theres also genetics, some elk, for example, will never be a 6pt, regardless of age.

There's also food supply, and if you stockpile animals (like what has been happening) they don't eat as well therefore their antler growth is affected (not to mention they are more prone to disease, starvation, large die-offs)

By advocating a 6pt only rule, you are essentially supporting taking some of the best genes out of the population, not the best plan in my opinion.

And I see you hate numbers and opposing views, so I'll stop there.

[bforce750]

Age is only 1 aspect

Theres also genetics, some elk, for example, will never be a 6pt, regardless of age.

There's also food supply, and if you stockpile animals (like what has been happening) they don't eat as well therefore their antler growth is affected (not to mention they are more prone to disease, starvation, large die-offs)

By advocating a 6pt only rule, you are essentially supporting taking some of the best genes out of the population, not the best plan in my opinion.

And I see you hate numbers and opposing views, so I'll stop there.
I aggree with that,we are still friends right??:biggrin:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Mine was pretty small too,no trophy thats for sure,And Goatguy history repeats itself thats all i'm saying,look what happend 15 years ago,slaughter!!!!


Please explain this "slaughter".

SSS

[GoatGuy]

Mine was pretty small too,no trophy thats for sure,And Goatguy history repeats itself thats all i'm saying,look what happend 15 years ago,slaughter!!!!

15 years ago the problem wasn't the bull harvest. They were trying to reduce the elk herd through cow/calf hunting and had a bad winter. It would have been a recipe for disaster even without the cow/calf hunting. The die-off had nothing to do with the bull harvest.

Sperm and eggs, sperm and eggs.

[GoatGuy]

no not the flower garden...it looks better hangin on the front of my truck.
Besides, I have never shot a small 6 point and the one i got this year was the smallest so far.

The front of the truck mount, very nice.

All your bulls except for this year have been 340+?

[bforce750]

Please explain this "slaughter".

SSS
Its Pretty self explanitory

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Its Pretty self explanitory

As GG said there was an "order" from Victoria to drastically reduce the elk herd...due to pressure from the ranchers..... Followed by the worst winter in the last 20 yrs.

How did the elk numbers get this high to lead to this need to reduce the herd???

What were the regulations that allowed this to happen??
How long was the season???

How many elk hunters did we have back then???

SSS

[GoatGuy]

Well...actually i am not a trophy hunter and I gauge my elk size by the body because antlers make crappy soup. I have in the last 15 years gotten 3 bulls over 300 though and those steaks were darn tastey especially my 7x7....;)

I see...................... it's all about an extra pack of steaks. :wink:

[bforce750]

As GG said there was an "order" from Victoria to drastically reduce the elk herd...due to pressure from the ranchers..... Followed by the worst winter in the last 20 yrs.

How did the elk numbers get this high to lead to this need to reduce the herd???

What were the regulations that allowed this to happen??
How long was the season???

How many elk hunters did we have back then???

SSS
I like pizza :biggrin:

[6616]

And Goatguy history repeats itself thats all i'm saying,look what happend 15 years ago,slaughter!!!!

Where were you 15 years ago bforce750, where did you acquire your expertise on this event, Tim Hortons, Chequers or the Royal Oak?

History doesn't have to repeat itself if one learns from their mistakes!

What happened 15 years ago was because elk were away over carrying capacity and so ensued a premeditated reduction of elk numbers by issuing large numbers of antlerless tags. The target was overshot because the reduction occurred over too short of a time period and resulted in the creation of a predator pit situation, which was culminated by the winter kill of 96/97. It certainly had squat to do with bull harvests. During the years previous to this event we were harvesting up to 1500 bulls per year with a 3pt regulation and the population continued to expand in spite of this.

We are again at a point where the WLB feels elk need to be reduced but they are well aware of the mistakes that occurred 15 years ago and are being very careful with the numbers of LEH cow tags to ensure a slow and controlled reduction rate so predator numbers have a chance to stay in step.

Be aware that in 1984, 85, and 86 there were 10,000 (yes 10,000) antlerless elk permits issued in each of those years, harvest was in the area of 3000 anterless in each of those years. We are no-where's near those harvest numbers today. This is not a panic situation nor will any of these proposals cause such.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I like pizza :biggrin:

Excellent answer:roll:

I thought so.................

SSS

[Everett]

Mine was pretty small too,no trophy thats for sure,And Goatguy history repeats itself thats all i'm saying,look what happend 15 years ago,slaughter!!!!

In a thread full of dumb uneducated posts this has to be the best.:twisted:
In 96 we had huge early snow it snowed for 24 days straight in Fernie in December than it rained to the top of Polar peak and froze.
So there was limited food availble for Elk and Deer to eat so they starved got yarded up and worked over by predators. The fact that they had given out record number of cow tags was probably a good thing as even more Elk would have starved as a result. You cannot stockpile wildlife over what the winter range can support its that simple. Why can't people understand this?

[bforce750]

lol..Priceless
sorry guys done engaging,don't want to make too many enimies

[bforce750]

In a thread full of dumb uneducated posts this has to be the best.:twisted:
In 96 we had huge early snow it snowed for 24 days straight in Fernie in December than it rained to the top of Polar peak and froze.
So there was limited food availble for Elk and Deer to eat so they starved got yarded up and worked over by predators. The fact that they had given out record number of cow tags was probably a good thing as even more Elk would have starved as a result. You cannot stockpile wildlife over what the winter range can support its that simple. Why can't people understand this?
maybe cattle should come off the ranges a little ealier

[redcomet]

My biggest concern would be a late season 'any buck' mule deer season that extends from possibly Nov16th to Dec 10th. I don't think the mule deer are doing that well in ALL parts of the region to have a season like that region wide. I think that is the time we would see a lot of the 'big' old boys on low elevation winter range being harvested. Region 3, and Region 5 has a lot more mule deer and larger areas of winter range as compared to the mountainous northern area of the EK. I like the idea of increasing hunter opportunity and maintaining a diversity of hunting options but I’m not sure if the mule deer population in the EK will benefit from that change?
I don't mind the 'any buck' October season, because as GoatGuy mentions, a lot of hunters will be happy at home with a small buck in the freezer, and less 4 pts will get harvested. Nothing wrong with spreading out the buck harvest and giving people opportunity to fill a muley tag in the EK.
Part of the rationale for the changes is “to reduce regulation complexity within and among regions” – BUT the landscape of BC is complex and diverse as to the quality of habitat for any given species of ungulate, so what makes them think that having the same regulations for all regions is going to lead to equally effective management? Some areas within a Region, let alone the entire Region, don’t have as healthy a given ungulate population as others, some areas have more predators than others, some areas have a higher road density than others, etc….so how does having the same regulations/seasons across the province going to help? Ooops, slipped into bit of a rant, I’ll stop!

[Everett]

maybe cattle should come off the ranges a little ealier

Now your starting to get it. Its all about the winter range.:-D

[Everett]

My biggest concern would be a late season 'any buck' mule deer season that extends from possibly Nov16th to Dec 10th. I don't think the mule deer are doing that well in ALL parts of the region to have a season like that region wide. I think that is the time we would see a lot of the 'big' old boys on low elevation winter range being harvested. Region 3, and Region 5 has a lot more mule deer and larger areas of winter range as compared to the mountainous northern area of the EK. I like the idea of increasing hunter opportunity and maintaining a diversity of hunting options but I’m not sure if the mule deer population in the EK will benefit from that change?
I don't mind the 'any buck' October season, because as GoatGuy mentions, a lot of hunters will be happy at home with a small buck in the freezer, and less 4 pts will get harvested. Nothing wrong with spreading out the buck harvest and giving people opportunity to fill a muley tag in the EK.
Part of the rationale for the changes is “to reduce regulation complexity within and among regions” – BUT the landscape of BC is complex and diverse as to the quality of habitat for any given species of ungulate, so what makes them think that having the same regulations for all regions is going to lead to equally effective management? Some areas within a Region, let alone the entire Region, don’t have as healthy a given ungulate population as others, some areas have more predators than others, some areas have a higher road density than others, etc….so how does having the same regulations/seasons across the province going to help? Ooops, slipped into bit of a rant, I’ll stop!

I have some issues with this is well but to be the devils advocate how many deer can bow hunter realy kill?

[redcomet]

I know, I know....it likely won't be that bad, I hope.

But, there'll be people I know dusting off the old crossbow/compound bow, shoot it a handful of times, and say "I'm ready to go out!"

I'm not saying I'm totally against expanding archery seasons, I'm all for it. I'm just saying that it's an awfully long bow season proposal for mule deer bucks!

[6616]

In a thread full of dumb uneducated posts this has to be the best.:twisted:
In 96 we had huge early snow it snowed for 24 days straight in Fernie in December than it rained to the top of Polar peak and froze.
So there was limited food availble for Elk and Deer to eat so they starved got yarded up and worked over by predators. The fact that they had given out record number of cow tags was probably a good thing as even more Elk would have starved as a result. You cannot stockpile wildlife over what the winter range can support its that simple. Why can't people understand this?

Good post Everett, I remember it well, in March of 1997 there about a foot of the fence posts showing above the snow pack on Skookumchuck Prairie, the elk were walking around on top of it, only sinking in 6 inches or so. That's an area that normally gets only a few inches of snow, somethimes none at all. The Kootenay Wildlife Heritage Fund spent several hundred thousand dollars feeding elk. Elk numbers dropped from 18,000 to 20,000 down to 12,000 to 14,000 that winter.

[Everett]

Good post Everett, I remember it well, in March of 1997 there about a foot of the fence posts showing above the snow pack on Skookumchuck Prairie, the elk were walking around on top of it, only sinking in 6 inches or so. That's an area that normally gets only a few inches of snow, somethimes none at all. The Kootenay Wildlife Heritage Fund spent several hundred thousand dollars feeding elk. Elk numbers dropped from 18,000 to 20,000 down to 12,000 to 14,000 that winter.

I remember that winter well the skiing was awsome but it was a little hard on the body:-D. As I had spent the winter before in the middle east living withen a hundred yards of the med. But all the talk was about the Elk starving and wether it was right to feed them.
The problem as I see it with the local entrenched hunters in the EK is they are always fighting the last crises and incapable of seing the next. I spoke with alot of hunters this year and my conclusion after 50 or so of these conversation is a good portion of the local Kootenay hunters are idiots and incapable of seeing the big picture I also believe this is the view of most of the MOE staff. As a result of this I believe in future they will just ignore our opinions. They will listen to the GOABC though because they hire biologist who understand the numbers and can twist them in favour of the guides. So folks smarten up use your heads and not your hearts when thinking about wildlife management.

[mcrae]

I personally support all the of the changes put forward by the MOE for region 4. If we don't increase hunter opportunity and get more people active and hunting the future is bleak for our lifestyle and way of life.

We can stand around and argue about this and that but in 30 years I want my son to still be able to enjoy the outdoors and go hunting with his kids. If we don't get more people interested in hunting this is not going to be the case. As our numbers dwindle so will our voice. Its simple we need increased opportunity for hunters and an active recruitment strategy to keep expanding our voice. Many of these proposals do just that.

I for one am relieved to see the MOE trying to expand hunting opportunity for everyone in the Koots but it perplexes me to know end that the majority of the opposition comes from in region hunters? It makes no sense to me that some fella's want restrictive seasons and LEH which tend to concentrate people in to certain areas. If these proposals go forward you will have excellent opportunities all thru the West and East Kootenays.

The science supports these seasons until it doesn't I see no reason to oppose increased hunter opportunity.

[GoatGuy]

I like pizza :biggrin:
makes more sense than anything else I've read.

[ELKOHOLICBC]

This topic reminds me of the soap opera my wife watches. You can miss four months of comments on here and come back to the same thing. It sounds like and bunch high school girls kat calling, everyone thinks
they have the answer. The best parts are the comments about the Coast hunters coming to your area and taking YOUR animals. Just wondering if you had names for all your pets in region 4. I would hate to see your bill for pet food every month. Those comments are like us Coast people telling you interior people to stop coming to the Island and taking our fish.It sucks I was out the other day looking for my pet salmon Nimo and I couldn't find him. Someone from the Interior must have caught him.
Give it up with those comments, we all pay for a British Columbia hunting license and tags just like you do and have just as much right to hunt any region in BC. Unless I didn't get the info with my BC hunting license stating I can only hunt the MU unit I live in. If someone has an article on this could you please forward it to all us Island hunters.
Thank you from an Island hunter.:mrgreen:

[Everett]

This topic reminds me of the soap opera my wife watches. You can miss four months of comments on here and come back to the same thing. It sounds like and bunch high school girls kat calling, everyone thinks
they have the answer. The best parts are the comments about the Coast hunters coming to your area and taking YOUR animals. Just wondering if you had names for all your pets in region 4. I would hate to see your bill for pet food every month. Those comments are like us Coast people telling you interior people to stop coming to the Island and taking our fish.It sucks I was out the other day looking for my pet salmon Nimo and I couldn't find him. Someone from the Interior must have caught him.
Give it up with those comments, we all pay for a British Columbia hunting license and tags just like you do and have just as much right to hunt any region in BC. Unless I didn't get the info with my BC hunting license stating I can only hunt the MU unit I live in. If some has an article on this could you please forward it to all us Island hunters.
Thank you from an Island hunter.:mrgreen:

As someone who hunts all over BC fishes as well I agree with you completly the animals in region 4 belong to all BC residents.

[Husky7mm]

Sorry for not reading the whole post if there is somtime new here but.......
Dont all of you arm chair bio's get tired of responding to every thread on region 4. I think it would take less effort to pack up and move here than challenge every post. Then as a resident you might get it. Over hunted, or over harvest you drive some where else, we still live here!

[GoatGuy]

Sorry for not reading the whole post if there is somtime new here but.......
Dont all of you arm chair bio's get tired of responding to every thread on region 4. I think it would take less effort to pack up and move here than challenge every post. Then as a resident you might get it. Over hunted, or over harvest you drive some where else, we still live here!

Saw a couple hundred elk this year hunting over there in 4 days. Things looked pretty darned good to me.

How's that for an 'opinion'?

[Husky7mm]

The elk are stable for sure, so ....... how many legal bulls did you see, or better yet how many 4 point mulies did you see?

[GoatGuy]

The elk are stable for sure, so ....... how many legal bulls did you see, or better yet how many 4 point mulies did you see?

Think there were 2 6 pts, didn't bother getting excited, no tag. Didn't see a mule deer that trip, were looking for goats. Hiked into one mule deer hole and got chased out by a grizzer. Bear didn't move even when lead was sent in his direction.

[Devilbear]

Husky7mm,

WTF, were YOU born in the Kootenays? Has your family lived there for about 120 years? Are YOU a biologist?

I live in Vancouver, I was BORN in Nelson and my family came to BC nearly 140 years ago and founded businesses here in Vancouver, in 1884 and in Nelson and Moyie in 1893 and created jobs, paid taxes and helped build BC.

So, you ...live... there, so what, I will return there when my wife retires and nobody is going to tell me where I can/cannot hunt in BC. Geezuz, no bloody wonder hunting in BC is in trouble.

Not enough game in the Kootenays for all BC resident hunters to share in the hunting there? Well, eliminate the GOs, ban non-resident hunting and angling and THEN adjust limits, seasons and improve habitat.

[eastkoothunter]

Thats got to be some of the most ridiculous proposals. Theres enough animals that get killed each year. This is looking to wipe out the deer/elk. But like it says, it was over on the 1st so whatever happens happens, hopefully some of those don't go through!

[Husky7mm]

Husky7mm,

WTF, were YOU born in the Kootenays? Has your family lived there for about 120 years? Are YOU a biologist?

I live in Vancouver, I was BORN in Nelson and my family came to BC nearly 140 years ago and founded businesses here in Vancouver, in 1884 and in Nelson and Moyie in 1893 and created jobs, paid taxes and helped build BC.

So, you ...live... there, so what, I will return there when my wife retires and nobody is going to tell me where I can/cannot hunt in BC. Geezuz, no bloody wonder hunting in BC is in trouble.

Not enough game in the Kootenays for all BC resident hunters to share in the hunting there? Well, eliminate the GOs, ban non-resident hunting and angling and THEN adjust limits, seasons and improve habitat.

Well I certainly would not blame you for retiring here however. Most certainly their isnt enough game for the entire population of BC hunters to expect to come here and take a legal aniamal home. Do the math.
By the way thanks for building BC.

[Fisher-Dude]

I've got a couple of buses that I'm looking at to transport the mobs of LML hunters to the Kootenays this year. I'm serious about this - I think it would be great! Here are two that I'm gonna check out:

http://www.spectrumoutdoors.com/pics/camo_bus_complete_500.jpg


http://www.huntersdream.com/images/camo_bus.jpg


I kinda like the second one 'cause she's lifted, but the old 'hound holds more hunters. Which one would you LMLers like to travel in?

PS - these babies are DIRT cheap in the states right now with the recession - I'm in under $10 grand, delivered! :-D

[Everett]

Sorry for not reading the whole post if there is somtime new here but.......
Dont all of you arm chair bio's get tired of responding to every thread on region 4. I think it would take less effort to pack up and move here than challenge every post. Then as a resident you might get it. Over hunted, or over harvest you drive some where else, we still live here!

Well personally I live in the EK and it definatly isn't over harvested if it was we woudn't be dealing with record number of Elk and WT deer. Seems to be lots of mule deer, wolfs, coyotes and bears around from what I see as well.

[gwillim]

Just a few thoughts on the notion of "hunter recruitment" through extended seasons, doe seasons etc... When I was a kid, (and dinosaurs ruled the earth) I was pretty happy just to go along with my dad when he went hunting. It never occured to me that I needed to shoot something myself to have a good time, it was just a pleasure to spend time with the old man. Are kids so different now, and all suffering from Attention deficit disorder? Why not just enjoy the hike, and if someone shoots something, then its a bonus?

[Everett]

I've got a couple of buses that I'm looking at to transport the mobs of LML hunters to the Kootenays this year. I'm serious about this - I think it would be great! Here are two that I'm gonna check out:

http://www.spectrumoutdoors.com/pics/camo_bus_complete_500.jpg


http://www.huntersdream.com/images/camo_bus.jpg


I kinda like the second one 'cause she's lifted, but the old 'hound holds more hunters. Which one would you LMLers like to travel in?

PS - these babies are DIRT cheap in the states right now with the recession - I'm in under $10 grand, delivered! :-D


If your looking for a driver I have the license and usualy don't work in the fall. Know all the hots spots to drop hunters.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Fisher-Dude]

If your looking for a driver I have the license and usualy don't work in the fall. Know all the hots spots to drop hunters.:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Awesome! PM me your driver's abstract and the scores of your last 10 animals shot in the EK! :-D

[bozz'swife]

By the way thanks for building BC.



HA HA HA Ya thanks, we all really appreciate it!

[Devilbear]

Again, Husky, were YOU BORN in the Kootenays, or, even in BC? You neatly avoided my simple questions and gave me a flippant reply which indicates to me, that you may not even be Canadian born and certainly do not have any education in biology.

So, bud, what is it, can you reply or, are you merely going to sound off about ...do the math...? I worked in resource management, starting IN the Kootenays, had a "A" level in both sciences and arts at Selkirk College and was involved in conservation from 1961 on to the present day, so, I have a pretty good grasp of what is actually happening.

What do you actually do for a living or are you a retiree from another place?

[Everett]

Awesome! PM me your driver's abstract and the scores of your last 10 animals shot in the EK! :-D

Have access to operating authority for BC as well but every trip would have to go through clearwater:twisted:. Have a 15 passenger van as well.:mrgreen:

[mcrae]

Thats got to be some of the most ridiculous proposals. Theres enough animals that get killed each year. This is looking to wipe out the deer/elk. But like it says, it was over on the 1st so whatever happens happens, hopefully some of those don't go through!


Wipe out the deer and elk??? Umm how is that going to happen... Just curious as to why you think they will be wiped out...

[Devilbear]

I think that this crap about LM and VI hunters not being welcomed or even allowed to hunt in the Kootenays has gone much too far. I had a foreigner, an American who lives in the EK, tell me recently, that Americans were fine hunting in the Kootenays, but, LM hunters were not.

I see NO reason to allow ANY hunting, except that by bona-fide BCers here in BC for ANY reason and, with sound management and such an overdue restriction, we will have all the game we need.

Too many commentators who impugn others here with sound reputations and a background in conservation and yet, cannot seem to reply to simple queries concerning their own "creds". In short, we whose families built BC have the RIGHT to hunt ANYWHERE in OUR province we choose to, end of story.

[Husky7mm]

Devilbeer have another in front of the computer, or dust of the old wheel chair and getout there and get some stats. Ps i live here and I have more time in the bush than the bio's. Do you live here and if so is your memory currant.

[Devilbear]

Well, I think that tells me what I wanted to know,so, I won't bother with further responses.

[mcrae]

Just a few thoughts on the notion of "hunter recruitment" through extended seasons, doe seasons etc... When I was a kid, (and dinosaurs ruled the earth) I was pretty happy just to go along with my dad when he went hunting. It never occurred to me that I needed to shoot something myself to have a good time, it was just a pleasure to spend time with the old man. Are kids so different now, and all suffering from Attention deficit disorder? Why not just enjoy the hike, and if someone shoots something, then its a bonus?

The point of the hunter recruitment argument(IMO) now is that in days past the seasons where not as restrictive as they are now. Just take a look at all the post on HBC every year by new hunters trying to interpret regs and such. If the seasons are simple and success is increased interest is kept and people will continue to hunt.

I was born into a family that hunts not all are. I would hunt even if it was a one day season for mice but others need "encouragement" thru increased opportunty and yes success helps...

Hunting is different things to many people. You enjoy the hike others maybe need to put meat in the freezer so harvesting an animal is more a priority than scenery.

My son will learn the same thing you did a quality day in the field is a good day regardless if a critter was harvested or not. My old man likes to say, "nothing runs a good hunt like killing something"...:mrgreen:

[Lord of Gastown]

When all the elk and deer in the east Kootenays are wiped out, slaughtered, and exterminated, can we stock wild boar and Cape Buffalo?
That would be cool.

Heitsman and 1/2 Slam can guide.

If that doesn't work out, then I guess we'll have to kill everything in Region 8. These new rules truly mean a free-for-all for all Lower mainlanders and VI residents! Maybe I should start a contracting business for trophy Rooms here.
Gonna be in demand, with all the wanton slaughter going on.

[mcrae]

I think that this crap about LM and VI hunters not being welcomed or even allowed to hunt in the Kootenays has gone much too far. I had a foreigner, an American who lives in the EK, tell me recently, that Americans were fine hunting in the Kootenays, but, LM hunters were not.

I see NO reason to allow ANY hunting, except that by bona-fide BCers here in BC for ANY reason and, with sound management and such an overdue restriction, we will have all the game we need.

Too many commentators who impugn others here with sound reputations and a background in conservation and yet, cannot seem to reply to simple queries concerning their own "creds". In short, we whose families built BC have the RIGHT to hunt ANYWHERE in OUR province we choose to, end of story.

So is this hate on for guys from the LML an E.Koots thing? I can honestly say I don't get the sense from guys in the W.Koots that we hate guys from the LML??? Just curious is it mostly the E.Koot elk season that causes this tension???

I ran into lots of guys from other areas this fall and I bullchitted with all of them met some nice people this fall. Honestly I ain't the most friendly guy around either so if I can play nice with others I don't get why others find it so hard.

[Devilbear]

Thankyou for those words of wisdom and for calling me a ...putz...; I do enjoy such witty repartee........

[mcrae]

Actually this was suppose to be and started off to be a joke....but turned into a shit storm.
I have met lots of hunters from all over BC while hunting and I could really care less who from BC hunts here. It's a free Country and just glad I live in Region 4.


I hear ya X2

[Devilbear]

My impression is that there are a very few relatively "new" posters here on this thread and some among them may be here to advance an agenda that is a bit "different"......it has happened before, with claims of vast bush time and expertise far beyond that of mere professional bios and, always, the same nasty, misspelled personal slurs.

Who, would do this, well, I wonder, since some seem to be not as "Kootenay" as they want us to think..... can you say "G".....

[Lucky77_]

everett, you chance has not passed, silence is acceptance. send your reply anyway they will still be read. it says so at the bottem of the forms. we need to stop the cattlemans from pressuring our govt. to kill off our wildlife. sure it sounds good for this year but in two yrs there will be nothing again and we will be where we were 15yrs ago. small herds and few bulls

[Bugle M In]

Where were you 15 years ago bforce750, where did you acquire your expertise on this event, Tim Hortons, Chequers or the Royal Oak?

History doesn't have to repeat itself if one learns from their mistakes!

What happened 15 years ago was because elk were away over carrying capacity and so ensued a premeditated reduction of elk numbers by issuing large numbers of antlerless tags. The target was overshot because the reduction occurred over too short of a time period and resulted in the creation of a predator pit situation, which was culminated by the winter kill of 96/97. It certainly had squat to do with bull harvests. During the years previous to this event we were harvesting up to 1500 bulls per year with a 3pt regulation and the population continued to expand in spite of this.

We are again at a point where the WLB feels elk need to be reduced but they are well aware of the mistakes that occurred 15 years ago and are being very careful with the numbers of LEH cow tags to ensure a slow and controlled reduction rate so predator numbers have a chance to stay in step.

Be aware that in 1984, 85, and 86 there were 10,000 (yes 10,000) antlerless elk permits issued in each of those years, harvest was in the area of 3000 anterless in each of those years. We are no-where's near those harvest numbers today. This is not a panic situation nor will any of these proposals cause such.

6616 has it right.

the cow permits etc. were a big factor.

If it's a gong show in some places, it because your in an area where all can access with little effort!!

To tell u the truth, I saw no one all week except GOS in EK, but I did run into tons of guys in Cache Creek??

As for success, 3 guys, took one 6 pt bull, let another 6 walk ( 2 guns on him at 125 yrds ) , it was the last night!! and also chased 2 other 6 pt's during the same week!!

The changes for the most part are good, but hope they leave the vehicle restrictions in areas that are small watersheds....I like the solitude.

Yes , I am envious of people who live and can work in the EK ( great country!!), but if u are a BCer, we should all have the same rights!!
There just as many great areas to see elsewhere also!!!

[Everett]

everett, you chance has not passed, silence is acceptance. send your reply anyway they will still be read. it says so at the bottem of the forms. we need to stop the cattlemans from pressuring our govt. to kill off our wildlife. sure it sounds good for this year but in two yrs there will be nothing again and we will be where we were 15yrs ago. small herds and few bulls

Don't worry my 2 cents got in under the deadline so did my wifes and several hunting partners but I afraid we are first meat hunters so we are in favour of most of there proposals, not all but most. For example I didn't like the late bow seasons for Mule deer and sheep.

[redcomet]

Don't worry my 2 cents got in under the deadline so did my wifes and several hunting partners but I afraid we are first meat hunters so we are in favour of most of there proposals, not all but most. For example I didn't like the late bow seasons for Mule deer and sheep.

Good point & ditto!

[mcrae]

Don't worry my 2 cents got in under the deadline so did my wifes and several hunting partners but I afraid we are first meat hunters so we are in favour of most of there proposals, not all but most. For example I didn't like the late bow seasons for Mule deer and sheep.


yup same here in this house...

[Lucky77_]

mcrea555 it has nothing to do with science. it even says so in the reg changes. input is what they are basing it in and alinging with other areas of bc to make them easer to understand for the uneducated who dont really care to understand them in the first place, people say they are to complex . but judging from your pic. i guess you are a cattleman any way. no changing your view

[Lucky77_]

a mature bull has more meat.. think about the population in general 15 yrs ago we did not have wolves no.... wer are over run. the game needs all help it can get

[mcrae]

mcrea555 it has nothing to do with science. it even says so in the reg changes. input is what they are basing it in and alinging with other areas of bc to make them easer to understand for the uneducated who dont really care to understand them in the first place, people say they are to complex . but judging from your pic. i guess you are a cattleman any way. no changing your view

Its all about the science. They want to manage the herds using scientific data not coffee shop banter. They request the input from stakeholders as part of the process. We being the hunters are stakeholders and part of the process so we get a say.

Not to many cattle ranches in Nelson buddy so don't think you have to worry about me being a cattleman. That is a meat cutting chart you know like at a butchers shop:roll:

[mcrae]

a mature bull has more meat.. think about the population in general 15 yrs ago we did not have wolves no.... wer are over run. the game needs all help it can get

So now the wolves are killing all the game. At least now the guys from the LML and the island are off the hook it was the damn wolves all this time:tongue:

[Everett]

mcrea555 it has nothing to do with science. it even says so in the reg changes. input is what they are basing it in and alinging with other areas of bc to make them easer to understand for the uneducated who dont really care to understand them in the first place, people say they are to complex . but judging from your pic. i guess you are a cattleman any way. no changing your view

So its not about science you claim. So what don't you understand about the carrying capacity of the winter range. The Elk have exceeded it in the trench there is no room for more Elk. Do you have a solution to this? If you do please enlighten us. While your at it pass it on to MOE I am sure they would love to know.

[Lucky77_]

oh ya just pissed off that you have never got the castelgar draw and now seeing an opertunity for it damed the rest of the game. suprised there are still hunters in nelson.. thought all you had there now was granola

[Lucky77_]

game is political,, rember the moritoriun on grizz. that was not scientific.. was it!!!

[mcrae]

oh ya just pissed off that you have never got the castelgar draw and now seeing an opertunity for it damed the rest of the game. suprised there are still hunters in nelson.. thought all you had there now was granola


Sorry bud had the draw two years ago shot a nice bull in 4-16 keep digging though:mrgreen:

I live in 4-18 by the way we have a GOS for elk but since those regs don't confuse you I guess you already knew that...

I like granola I had it for breakfast this AM before work.

[Everett]

Would one of the Biologist on thise site please jump in and explain predator prey relationships to lucky.

[Lucky77_]

LOL guess we just dont. have the same values. just dont want to see the quality of the game go down due to scewen factors like the cattleman and political reasoning. the wolves are more prolific than ever and if a bbad winter comes will it be starvation or preditors?? only time will tell. what will be is what will be

[mcrae]

LOL guess we just dont. have the same values. just dont want to see the quality of the game go down due to scewen factors like the cattleman and political reasoning. the wolves are more prolific than ever and if a bbad winter comes will it be starvation or preditors?? only time will tell. what will be is what will be


Awsome now you question my values? Seriously dude we have a diffrence of opinion I think suggesting my values as a hunter are less than yours becasue I don't agree with your evil cattleman/wolf conspiracy is pretty silly...

[bayou]

Sorry bud had the draw two years ago shot a nice bull in 4-16 keep digging though:mrgreen:

I live in 4-18 by the way we have a GOS for elk but since those regs don't confuse you I guess you already knew that...

I like granola I had it for breakfast this AM before work.
How about a bigger picture of the bull, 4-16 A or B?

[GoatGuy]

mcrea555 it has nothing to do with science. it even says so in the reg changes. input is what they are basing it in and alinging with other areas of bc to make them easer to understand for the uneducated who dont really care to understand them in the first place, people say they are to complex . but judging from your pic. i guess you are a cattleman any way. no changing your view

yes, and it doesn't say conservation concern in any of them.

[GoatGuy]

a mature bull has more meat.. think about the population in general 15 yrs ago we did not have wolves no.... wer are over run. the game needs all help it can get

there are also fewer bulls to shoot due to natural mortality.

[GoatGuy]

LOL guess we just dont. have the same values. just dont want to see the quality of the game go down due to scewen factors like the cattleman and political reasoning. the wolves are more prolific than ever and if a bbad winter comes will it be starvation or preditors?? only time will tell. what will be is what will be

Where do you hunt elk?

How many bulls have you passed up that are over 300"?

How many bulls have you shot over 350"?

[GoatGuy]

game is political,, rember the moritoriun on grizz. that was not scientific.. was it!!!

Funny, you want to hunt grizzlies but you don't want to hunt elk/deer/moose based on science.

I can guarantee you have absolutely no idea how about how the sampling works and what the issues are with grizzly bear inventory. You support the science in this case, because it suites your personal agenda, not because you have any idea how it works.

When the science, that you still don't understand, doesn't fit your personal agenda you don't believe.

Sounds familiar.

[Lucky77_]

rgn4 where do you think,
one or two but thats it just two... what ever
non.... still waiting for mr right.

[GoatGuy]

rgn4 where do you think,
one or two but thats it just two... what ever
non.... still waiting for mr right.

Where do you hunt? EK or WK?

[Lucky77_]

of corse one would always hope seasons are based on science and if the data could be trusted than there would be no question however that is not always the case. bears or what ever if desiese is a consern than so be it . but if winter range is the problem than maybe the cattle have to come off sooner.

[Lucky77_]

so tell me how does it work?

[Lucky77_]

what is causing natural mortality??

[GoatGuy]

of corse one would always hope seasons are based on science and if the data could be trusted than there would be no question however that is not always the case. bears or what ever if desiese is a consern than so be it . but if winter range is the problem than maybe the cattle have to come off sooner.

The problem isn't cattle, the winter range is in shitty shape from 40+ years of fire supression, that's the bottom line. As you continue to build the number of animals up it continues to degrade and it will continue to get worse until you get a fire or spend a pile of money on enhancement. Until that happens you're best off controlling the number of animals.

The ranchers hardly have any cattle on the range right now as it is.

[GoatGuy]

so tell me how does it work?

Does it matter?

You won't believe anything unless it fits your agenda.

[GoatGuy]

rgn4 where do you think,
one or two but thats it just two... what ever
non.... still waiting for mr right.


Again do you hunt the EK or the WK?

[Lucky77_]

what if you spend the money on enhansment threw the hctf and sell more tags for quality bulls if we have more 300+ bulls guide outfitters could bring more revinue in as well as residents

[Hank Hunter]

GG you know he has his own agenda, blind to everything else.

[Lucky77_]

my agenda is the game.... period... that being said i want to hunt. i really do care for all animals big or small and if i am ignorant it just means that i do not have the info that i need to develope an informed dicision

[Lucky77_]

have hunted both born to the wk and raised in the ek. ties to both

[GoatGuy]

what if you spend the money on enhansment threw the whcf and sell more tags for quality bulls if we have more 300+ bulls guide outfitters could bring more revinue in as well as residents

Last time I checked residents weren't looking for more 300" bulls. Most are looking to shoot ANY elk to eat.

If they weren't, they wouldn't be applying for and shooting cows and calves.

Habitat enhancement will probably create more elk, thus more bulls and possibly more age, but for now we're dealing with the elk that we have and the shitty habitat they live in.

What is the whcf?

[6616]

So its not about science you claim. So what don't you understand about the carrying capacity of the winter range. The Elk have exceeded it in the trench there is no room for more Elk. Do you have a solution to this? If you do please enlighten us. While your at it pass it on to MOE I am sure they would love to know.

Everett and Mcrae555 are 100% correct Lucky77, give them a listen, they obviously know what they're talking about.

Did you know that the maximum sustainable harvest for an elk population is when they are at about 70 to 75% of carrying capacity, and sustainable harvest decreases steadily as the populations rises above that approximate density.

What that actually means is that if the population were lowered by about 20% we could actually harvest just as many elk sustainably, maybe more, we'd keep the habitat in better shape, there'd be away less risk of a winter kill event and when one did occur it would be less severe, the herd would be far more vigorous and we'd have more trophy bulls, and we'd get the cattlemen off our back.

The maximum sustainable yield for white tailed deer is when they're at about 55 to 60 % of carrying capacity. If we lowered the elk population as described above and lowered the white tailed deer population about 40% at the same time we could also harvest just as many or more white tailed deer as we do now, bigger bucks, higher vitality, less impact from severe winters, protect the habitat, and moreover these two moves combined would result in lower predator numbers and that would take a lot of predation pressure off mule deer and sheep.

Sounds like win, win, idea to me....let's go for it....!!!!

[Hank Hunter]

x2 6616 sounds good

[Lucky77_]

bulls with more age have more meat, and what can be done about the habitat now?? to insure a healthy pop?? hearing about the herds in the us and the efforts that they have put in to there herds makes me envious and wish to attaine that here some day.

[6616]

Everett and Mcrae555 are 100% correct Lucky77, give them a listen, they obviously know what they're talking about.

Did you know that the maximum sustainable harvest for an elk population is when they are at about 70 to 75% of carrying capacity, and sustainable harvest decreases steadily as the populations rises above that approximate density.

What that actually means is that if the population were lowered by about 20% we could actually harvest just as many elk sustainably, maybe more, we'd keep the habitat in better shape, there'd be away less risk of a winter kill event and when one did occur it would be less severe, the herd would be far more vigorous and we'd have more trophy bulls, and we'd get the cattlemen off our back.

The maximum sustainable yield for white tailed deer is when they're at about 55 to 60 % of carrying capacity. If we lowered the elk population as described above and lowered the white tailed deer population about 40% at the same time we could also harvest just as many or more white tailed deer as we do now, bigger bucks, higher vitality, less impact from severe winters, protect the habitat, and moreover these two moves combined would result in lower predator numbers and that would take a lot of predation pressure off mule deer and sheep.

Sounds like win, win, idea to me....let's go for it....!!!!


PS:
Elk and white tailed deer are currently at or near 100% of carrying capacity in much of the Trench, especially in the southern MUs. This represents a very unstable situation and places those populations in a very precarious position with very high vulnerability to winter weather conditions.

[Lucky77_]

that sounds awsome 6616, it is just hard for myself to wrap my head around i guess... thanks for your .... cander

[GoatGuy]

my agenda is the game.... period... that being said i want to hunt. i really do care for all animals big or small and if i am ignorant it just means that i do not have the info that i need to develope an informed dicision

Your agenda is not the game. There is nothing 'sustainable' about the way deer and elk are being managed in the EK.

You're stacking animals up on dwindling winter range and setting them up for a die off.

The habitat will continue to get pounded and it can take generations to come back, not 5-10 years like it does for deer and elk populations.

None of this makes any sense.

[Lucky77_]

die due to starvation?over generations?because of the habitat?

[Hank Hunter]

What???????????

[GoatGuy]

have hunted both born to the wk and raised in the ek. ties to both

That's what I figured. Maybe you don't get it.

You're another guy looking for the 'big bulls' in the EK.

Met a few of your like-minded folks there, supporting the 6 pt season and looking for the "big bulls". Most of 'em have never even passed up one 6 pt bull and a handful of them have maybe shot one 320" rat. Most of them have never shot anything over 300".

You aren't a big bull hunter, just another guy looking to regulate everybody else's opportunity because you THINK the regulations will make you a big bull. They won't and you'll probably spend your life in the EK shooting little bulls.

In fact since the regulations have changed to 6 pt the number of big bulls in the EK keep going down, every year. By big bulls in that country I mean 340-350 +. The science supports that. If you're focusing your entire harvest on 6 pts you're going to shoot the young 6 pt bulls.

If you wanted a big bull you'd be hunting in the WK or up north where big bulls live and die of old age. But you're not and I guess that's the point.

I'm not sure of your intention, maybe you just don't get it, but I doubt it.

[Lucky77_]

if it makes no sense scientificaly why do they even ask for imput? just do what needs to be done.

[Hank Hunter]

What do you think needs to be done 77

[GoatGuy]

die due to starvation?over generations?because of the habitat?

High density populations + poor habitat + a bad winter means a disaster for wildlife and also permanently damaged habitat that will likely never recover, at least not in one person's lifetime.

Science has shown keeping animals below carrying capacity the sustainable yield (harvest) is higher, the range is healthier and the herd will bounce back much quicker from a bad winter. Best of all you've got good habitat - that's the key to it all.

[GoatGuy]

if it makes no sense scientificaly why do they even ask for imput? just do what needs to be done.

like you said, politics.

[6616]

what if you spend the money on enhansment threw the hctf and sell more tags for quality bulls if we have more 300+ bulls guide outfitters could bring more revinue in as well as residents

Money, how much would it take, where will it come from, we have already spend about 5 million dollars on ecosystem restoration. We've treated 25,000 Ha and we've brought about 11,000 Ha back to full productivity. We started in 1998, when will we finish, the target area for ER is 118,500 Ha. Don't hold your breath. Read this: http://www.trenchsociety.com/setup/content/Blueprint_for_Action_2006.pdf

So in other words, where will the trophy elk come from to sell more tags? Under the current range conditions with elk at or near carrying capacity, 300 bulls are going to get even more rare and then rarer.

[Lucky77_]

the wk is where i have always called home.. yes i hunt in the ek and i have passed on 300 bull to settle for smaller for meat because of time. i dont really get it and i am getting an education on it ... now if anything. there was a 340+ bull shot where i hunt this year and several 320s however i was not one of the hunters to get one.

[Lucky77_]

well thatsf uckn said and i wish that more people were here watching the education im getting...

[GoatGuy]

the wk is where i have always called home.. yes i hunt in the ek and i have passed on 300 bull to settle for smaller for meat because of time. i dont really get it and i am getting an education on it ... now if anything. there was a 340+ bull shot where i hunt this year and several 320s however i was not one of the hunters to get one.

Like I said small bulls. There's always a few 340+ bulls that come out of the EK, but those aren't big bulls.

[Lucky77_]

so if they open the wk to gos what will happen to the elk there??

[GoatGuy]

so if they open the wk to gos what will happen to the elk there??

To the population or to the big bulls?

Two separate issues.

[Lucky77_]

well both i guess... i want my cake and eat it two. if the population is healthy wont the mature bulls be more plentyful?

[GoatGuy]

Lucky,

Here's my suggestion.

Get a hold of Garth Mowat, he's your regional biologist.

He's a sharp cookie and a top shelf type guy. He won't BS you and will tell you how it works and what would/could/should happen. He's got lots of experience and he's a hunter.

He'll tell you where conservation becomes an issue and how far things can go before we get ourselves into a problem. He's got a fairly good grasp on the past and will EXPLAIN things to you.

If you really want to know, that's your best route.

[Lucky77_]

well thank for you patence and my ignorance can only be cured by thoes who know. im sure to catch you later...
LKY

[j270wsm]

My concerne would be changing the current elk and mule deer antler restrictions. I feel that if they change elk to 3pt+ and mule deer to a GOS there will be a slaughter the first year or two. We have alot of elk in the EK's, but IMO the mule deer herd is still down a little. I agree with the youth/senior hunts, but do not agree that they get to start on the 1st of sept when I am trying to bow hunt bull elk.
Somone stated that by shooting 6pts only we were taking all the good genetics out of the herd, I call BS, in a lot of cases the smaller bulls are breeding the cows when the big bulls are fighting and chasing smaller bulls. If the elk season goes to a 3pt+ season I will do what I have done for the last 8yrs and shoot the first legal bull I can. It is great to get a 6pt, but all I want is a freezer full of meat.
The area I live in gets alot of pressure from Non resident hunters, I complain about it every year, but I still manage to get my animal. Every time I complain about the amount of hunters my dad tells me that in the 70's and 80's every wide spot in the road held a hunting camp. Where I live and hunt has very little motorized vehicle access so you see alot of people driving the roads that are open, and every year I see more and more people just driving back and forth.
Most of us realize that the hunter numbers are dropping,and I hope that the idea of creating more opertunity will help increase the hunter numbers, I just dont want to risk ruining what we have just to TRY and increase hunter numbers. I also feel that if the ranchers pulled their cattle earlier it would help the winter ranges.

[6616]

so if they open the wk to gos what will happen to the elk there??

They will survive, the really big bulls will more or less be cleaned out in 3 or 4 years, the bull/cow ratio will drop a little, there will be a high harvest level for a couple years, but a sustainable harvest level will be about 10 times higher then what you harvest there now and the overall population level will stabilize in relation to carrying capacity, there will not be a huge slaughter, and you'll be able to shoot a bull closer to home.

It's not a science based decision, to manage for trophies through restrictive LEH, or to manage for sustainable harvest through a GOS, is purely a social decision. Science is readily available to manage the West Kootenay elk which ever of the two ways society chooses.

[GoatGuy]

well both i guess... i want my cake and eat it two. if the population is healthy wont the mature bulls be more plentyful?

Herd health and mature bulls don't have anything to do with each other really when it comes to elk. A 6 pt GOS won't affect the population.

In some areas, where there's lots of roads the number of 'trophy bulls' will go down - that's a no brainer. You've still got a 6 pt season so you won't ever have a conservation concern.

In the inaccessible areas you'll still have giants just like you do in the trout lake area and 4-18. That arrow lake country will always have monsters, just not enough access and it's tough hunting.

So you won't affect the population and in the areas that are hard to access you'll always have monsters.

Or you can keep it status quo. Don't expect to hunt those MUs cause chances are you'll never get drawn.

[Lucky77_]

well thats what ponys are for....i guess all i need is a new spot to cut trail in to

[Lucky77_]

huuummm???

[GoatGuy]

well thats what ponys are for....i guess all i need is a new spot to cut trail in to

Or hike. If it's a big bull a two day pack out's no big deal.

[6616]

of corse one would always hope seasons are based on science and if the data could be trusted than there would be no question however that is not always the case. bears or what ever if desiese is a consern than so be it . but if winter range is the problem than maybe the cattle have to come off sooner.

Cattle are part of the big picture, but it's not just as simple as bringing them off the range earlier, there are many, many issues with range management in BC and in the East Kootenay. Check out these reports from the Forests Practices Board, they are eye-openers and wildlife are not as innocent as you might like to hear.

http://www.fpb.gov.bc.ca/assets/0/114/178/186/358/7ab75688-20a1-4cf2-917c-ac999856d5ac.pdf

http://www.fpb.gov.bc.ca/assets/0/114/178/298/356/cd6fac1e-e1fa-4d02-a63f-a3f662509d23.pdf

[Fisher-Dude]

How about a bigger picture of the bull, 4-16 A or B?

Search his posts, I remember his story and pics, really nice bull. Not a 350 class piece of shoe leather, just a solid bull that we would all be pleased to get in any season. IIRC, he was in A.

[mcrae]

Search his posts, I remember his story and pics, really nice bull. Not a 350 class piece of shoe leather, just a solid bull that we would all be pleased to get in any season. IIRC, he was in A.

Yup he was in 4-16A. Like FD says he was a decent bull but no record breaker or anything. I can't give you any numbers becasue I never had him scored. I am hoping to see a short GOS for elk in the W.Koots so everyone can have an opportunity to get a nice W.Koots bull. The day I shot this bull is one of my best hunting memories.

[Devilbear]

Well, I have carefully thought this situation over and I am in favour of the Elk GOS, WT. season being changed as per the proposals and not in favour of an increased doe season for Mule Deer. I also am opposed to any late bow seasons, especially for Bighorns.

The comments here, from a few who purport to live in the Kootenays and presume to deny other BC resident hunters the opportunity to hunt there are much like the neverending crap about "aboriginal rights" and the blockades, etc., that regularly interfere with legitimate hunting. This is one of the more serious problems we hunters face in BC and we need to confront such destructive and probably foreign-based ideas and do whatever it takes to eliminate them.

I have encountered such attitudes while hunting at "home" near Nelson and from foreigners who came to my homeland as Yankee "draftdodgers" and, recently, from their spawn. I also had this happen on Texada in 2006 when a woman about my age very rudely told me that only "locals" should be able to hunt there. When I asked her, very politely, if she had been born there and her family had pioneered there when Texada was first settled, she told me to "f**Koff" and flounced off in anger, while I laughed and told her to "have a nice day"....another foreign-born "oldtimer", I would bet.

Generally, I have found most people in BC to be accepting of hunters, IF, you act with courtesy and respect private property. I HAVE recently witnessed LOCALS in the Kootenay-Boundary dropping beer cans, teaching their little boys to shoot squirrels and generally acting like the type of guttersnipes who make ignorant remarks and probably were not born in BC, a problem we also see here. So, I just cleaned up the beer cans and went on my way.....evil, nasty, old LM hunter that I am........... :)

[Nooker77]

:???:
I am not a biologist and have nothing to prove with my reply. simpy a hunter in the area concerned that has noticed a large increase in hunter concentration in the the kootenay area. it is easy to be concerned with hunter numbers when you drive up one road and there is a camper, quad, truck, rayzer on every corner. there are simply not enough roads for all the road hunters from every corner of the province to access. my point simply remains that the targeted species will also increase the hunter conflict and concentration. no numbers just personal observation. not sure why i need exact numbers as i thought this was a forum for hunters not government officials with exact numbers.:confused:
Well I'm not a Reg4 guy, I'm from reg 8 and have been spending 2 weeks for the past 15 years In the Bull river area.. i have to agree with the locals...this year we spent the better part of a day just looking for somewhere to camp!! There where guys everywhere!! Most are seniors lookinf for there cow elk BUT it was tough to just go to "your" spot with out racing other guys up your trail/road! I ended up sitting in the dark for over an hour every morning just so I could hunt where I wanted (nothing wrong with that..just never used to be that way!) We did see elk and had our chances and had a GREAT time But 50% of the time we got an elk to call We just didn't know if it was other hunters or not cause we/they where everywhere!! I still love the Kootneys and will always go there but it is getting busy!! Just my 2cents! Cheers

[bforce750]

Husky7mm,

WTF, were YOU born in the Kootenays? Has your family lived there for about 120 years? Are YOU a biologist?

I live in Vancouver, I was BORN in Nelson and my family came to BC nearly 140 years ago and founded businesses here in Vancouver, in 1884 and in Nelson and Moyie in 1893 and created jobs, paid taxes and helped build BC.

So, you ...live... there, so what, I will return there when my wife retires and nobody is going to tell me where I can/cannot hunt in BC. Geezuz, no bloody wonder hunting in BC is in trouble.

Not enough game in the Kootenays for all BC resident hunters to share in the hunting there? Well, eliminate the GOs, ban non-resident hunting and angling and THEN adjust limits, seasons and improve habitat.
Did he mention anthing about not wanting to share game,thats not the case,quit disecting and picking and choosing what you feel like reading,like women:biggrin:

[Devilbear]

You didn't happen to write the lic plates down to these so called locals that were litterring beers cans all over the place??? If not then you are just as much in the wrong!

No, as nothing will ever be done about this and I would not consider cleaning up after some slobs to be ...in the wrong... These guys WERE from local towns as I spoke with them and they told me where they lived.

Litter is a constant, the BCFS, COs and RCMP do not have the resources to even attempt to deal with this problem, but, we can try to clean up our own acts and pick up after others.

I can give other examples of this, and one incident when I was on Bulldog L/O involved having a .22 pointed at me, by half-drunken, laughing locals who drove a new, red Jeep and I DID report this....the RCMP at Castlegar, were "too busy" to deal with it.

Think what you choose, but, this happens here and in Alberta and nothing is ever done about it.

[Everett]

Well I'm not a Reg4 guy, I'm from reg 8 and have been spending 2 weeks for the past 15 years In the Bull river area.. i have to agree with the locals...this year we spent the better part of a day just looking for somewhere to camp!! There where guys everywhere!! Most are seniors lookinf for there cow elk BUT it was tough to just go to "your" spot with out racing other guys up your trail/road! I ended up sitting in the dark for over an hour every morning just so I could hunt where I wanted (nothing wrong with that..just never used to be that way!) We did see elk and had our chances and had a GREAT time But 50% of the time we got an elk to call We just didn't know if it was other hunters or not cause we/they where everywhere!! I still love the Kootneys and will always go there but it is getting busy!! Just my 2cents! Cheers


Well your problem is you are hunting the Bull River one the most over presured areas in BC. There is so many better places to hunt in the EK I suggest a little research and plan for a new spot next year. Drop me a PM next summer and I will point you in a couple directions.

[GoatGuy]

Well I'm not a Reg4 guy, I'm from reg 8 and have been spending 2 weeks for the past 15 years In the Bull river area.. i have to agree with the locals...this year we spent the better part of a day just looking for somewhere to camp!! There where guys everywhere!! Most are seniors lookinf for there cow elk BUT it was tough to just go to "your" spot with out racing other guys up your trail/road! I ended up sitting in the dark for over an hour every morning just so I could hunt where I wanted (nothing wrong with that..just never used to be that way!) We did see elk and had our chances and had a GREAT time But 50% of the time we got an elk to call We just didn't know if it was other hunters or not cause we/they where everywhere!! I still love the Kootneys and will always go there but it is getting busy!! Just my 2cents! Cheers

Seen 2 resident hunters in the EK last year. Hundreds of spots without a hunter.

Stay away from the Bull River if you don't want to see a bunch of hunters OR lay down some boot leather before light in the morning. There's enough road closures in that country that a person can put 5-10 kms behind them every morning or spike out without a problem.

[Devilbear]

Yup, with a Kootenay GOS on Elk, there will likely be LESS congestion of hunters than is now the case. Or, maybe we should just lobby for licences being issued if one can produce a "Kootenay Birth Certificate"....seems as logical and fair as some of the idiotic bullshit spewed on this thread.

I especially don't want that big dude with the huge spear and pink tutu going there to kill MY Elk,............. ;)

[bforce750]

[quote=Devilbear;569167]Yup, with a Kootenay GOS on Elk, there will likely be LESS congestion of hunters than is now the case. Or, maybe we should just lobby for licences being issued if one can produce a "Kootenay Birth Certificate"....seems as logical and fair as some of the idiotic bullshit spewed on this thread.

I especially don't want that big dude with the huge spear and pink tutu going there to kill MY Elk,............. ;)[/quote

For everyone in the LML or anywhere else in the province,Most people around here are quite friendly,we support people travelling and spending money in our stores ect. Just dont run into Devilbear because he built and owns B.C.:smiles:

[835]

Makes you wonder some times. I was a guide for 7 years in ucluelet, lived there for 12. Saw a million guys from warshington come up fishing. I used to say "man they should have to be guided to fish our water."
You know what now that the gas is expensive and the economy sucks they dont come and the town is dead. I delt with this "migration" on a different level.
Sorry to the EK and interior guys that got it figured but,
give it a break when your job is gone because some unseen thing happens
i wont be crying for you. I am from this damn province and have every right to suck ass at calling and "recking your pristeen wilderness hunting"
just because i dont live there doesnt mean i can't go and shoot "your" elk

[Devilbear]

Exactly, and I will bet that most of the few here who complain about VI and LM hunters coming to the Kootenays were NOT born in BC, have NOT lived in the Kootenays for very long and probably will move elsewhere before they reach old age. So, who cares what a few post, BC hunting is for ALL BCers.

[rocksteady]

Not going to post my opinion on this one.....Been there-Done that- Got the t-shirt to prove it.....

However I must say, I am glad to see good discussion and debate (yeah, some of it is silly, but hey what isn't) as it shows that

WE AS HUNTERS OF BC WILDLIFE PASSIONATELY CARE ABOUT OUR RESOURCES......

With hindsight being 20/20, I am sure a lot of the East Coast people are kickin their arses for not speaking up when it came to fisheries management....

Keep it up guys.....It shows we care....

[bforce750]

edited to remove insults

[835]

im sorry....... i just got a little heated....oops
lets team up guys....
hey rock steady whats the t-shirt say?

[BCTRUCKER]

This thread has a lot B#$$%@t. BCers are Bcers. We have the same rights as everybody else. We as hunters are getting less in numbers, more rights taken away. We should be working together,not against each other. To say that Vancouver Islander's and Lower mainlanders are the only ones leaving a mess behind. Bull. You will find the locals are just as bad or worst. I can say when I leave my camp site its cleaner than when I arrived. But this thread is supposed the about hunting regs in REG 4

[BCTRUCKER]

oh yah There is 6 of us Vancouver Islanders coming up to KTS hunting
next year. We are going to drink all your beer, chase your ladies. And maybe
shoot some deer, and the biggest 6 pt elk thats been taken ever. Just kidden with you. Only 4 of us.

[Islandeer]

Good luck with that ;)
LOL!!!!
Must be freezin in the EK today,all you boys are plinkin on the old PC!!!

Hey Kenkell,

Those Valley Girls you got up there are way to fast for me,like trying to run down a whitey. And those Elk of yours,well they are alot of work don't you think?

But your beer is a real throat charmer.

[bozzdrywall]

oh yah There is 6 of us Vancouver Islanders coming up to KTS hunting
next year. We are going to drink all your beer, chase your ladies. And maybe
shoot some deer, and the biggest 6 pt elk thats been taken ever. Just kidden with you. Only 4 of us.
Drink all our beer HA good luck with that you do know the elavation means you get drunker faster right

[Islandeer]

Nice,she will be good eating!! Uh oh,beer talk must find beer ... :confused:

[835]

This thread has a lot B#$$%@t. BCers are Bcers. We have the same rights as everybody else. We as hunters are getting less in numbers, more rights taken away. We should be working together,not against each other. To say that Vancouver Islander's and Lower mainlanders are the only ones leaving a mess behind. Bull. You will find the locals are just as bad or worst. I can say when I leave my camp site its cleaner than when I arrived. But this thread is supposed the about hunting regs in REG 4


and that is how we should expect all of us here act.and this is also the point of this thread. we are all in it to fill our freezers and hang stuff on our walls and make sure our kids can too

[Seeadler]

I live in the EK and have hunted MU's 4-1, 2, 3, 22, 23, 26 and maybe 1 or 2 more that I can't think of off the top of my head. In my experience it is the same everywhere, the areas with roads/driveable trails get pounded and the areas where a guy has to walk barely see a soul. I am doubtful that any reg changes with change this. The elk and mule deer will get pounded near the roads until they wise up and avoid them. And there will still be big bulls and bucks a couple of clicks (or even closer) away from the road.

[gunpower]

I feel the bioligists never seem to contemplate the increased pressure on all species concerned with these open seasons. the hunters flocking to these seasons in the kootenays will undoubtedly also see and harvest non target game as well. The numbers of hunters in the kootenays is at an all time high now and hunter conflicts are becoming common place. the proposed changes will bring a decline to all big game and the changes are too general in nature. might as well place an open season sign on the kootenays as opening day will be a gong show throughout the region.
I have to disagree with GrizzleybasinHunter on the comment about the al time high of hunters in the Kootenays. I have lived in the Elk Valley for 33 years and the number of hunters fell off by 90% when the Elk were put on the 6 point season only. I for one do not support the 6 point season, as it only benifits the guides in our part of the Elk Valley. It seems like ,all the hunting is now based on the cost instead of the pleasure of hunting! I for one would rather hunt foe the meat instead of bragging rights about who got the biggest rack!!