View Full Version : Winchester Expert ammo. Don't BUY
If you hunt Water fowl,Please read longshots thread Junk shotshell !!!
Crazy_Farmer
11-26-2009, 10:07 PM
At the yardage we shoot em at, I could be throwing rocks or shooting a classy o/u 28 guage. Anyone got any 12 guage experts you wanna sell so I can reload them into a 28 guage shell. I really love the knock down power.
f350ps
11-26-2009, 10:13 PM
Ya I agree, that blended stuff sucks! I'll buy any unwanted Xperts at $.50 on the dollar and dispose of it properly. No thanks neccessary, just happy to help out. K
Pictures don't lie. Check out the pics of the shot in my album in photo bucket. Its physics man bad shot does not fly true, Plain & simple.I don't know what the shot looked like that you were hunting with I am commenting on the crap we were shooting with.I can also post pics os the 1000's of birds I have shot in my life. Even better I could have carried on shooting that day & filled my bag. But I count birds I know I have winged in my bag limit.We were using winchester Expert no 4's. How many birds did you guys wing & loose during those shoots. Did every gun use the same ammo Give me a break. Don't be irresponsible bad shells like we are describing should not be sold plain & simple.
heyblast
11-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Thats right . I killed ducks with Experts as well. I wounded a hell of a lot too. That's why I quit using this shit excuse for shotgun shells. Some of you guys say it works, how many birds do you knock down dead and how many are wounded.
Crazy_Farmer
11-26-2009, 10:27 PM
Yeah most of all those birds were shot with experts, and on the cripples, we count cripples on a limit, and we pride ourselves on always getting our birds. In a field its not too tough to find them if they sail. So your question of how many were winged and lost? Maybe 1 or 2 and I'm dead serious. I dont like leaving a wounded bird out there.
Thats the thing with steel, distance and penetration sucks. You get any bird in 15-20 yards and smack it and it'll drop. Its the 40-50 yard shots where the chance of cripples is high.
I'm just busting your balls a bit so dont worry, I know experts are on the shittier end of the shell spectrum but we've been using them for years with no problems and it stacks up the birds, and no cripples. As a matter of fact we've been shooting #3s at ducks so far and we noticed this year, how much better it was fat out killing them. Not just knocking them down and they were still alive on the ground, but straight death on impact.
Five easy steps to killing ducks with winchester xperts
Step 1: Load Xpert in gun
Step 2: Sound like a duck
Step 3: See duck
Step 4: Put little white bead on ducks head
Step 5: Pick up dead duck.
They kill just fine. Then again, most of my shooting occurred under 20y this fall.....I notice the same thing. Flat out no-twitch dead when they fall.
f350ps
11-26-2009, 10:38 PM
This is very simple, don't shoot the crap!! My offer still stands. K
I thought I would post this again....I believe that we should all be ethical in our hunting. Using sub standard ammo is just wrong for hunting!!!!!!
Unbelievable I can not believe they are still selling this CRAP.5 years ago I went on my first duck hunt in Canada.An Old school duck hunter with many years experience Invited me along to shoot duck on the Salmon river.He purchased rounds from Wallmart for the two of us, Winchester 'Expert 12g.
The hunt started off just great getting into position early ,setting up a blind & decoys.I was so excited, myself & the dogs could hardy contain ourselves.As it started to dawn the birds started to fly & mike started to call,minutes later we had our first drake wings locked coming straight for us.@ 20 yards I let him have it Bang,he turned & I let him have it again Bang, still flying "what the F...k?Than Mike gave him two,he went down & Xenia my pointer made a great 100 yard retrieve.He was still alive so I did the deed.
The morning continued with birds coming in & been winged more or less every shot,A complete gong show.
5 birds in the bag & another 10 wounded & lost we called it a day,after we nearly lost my dog in the ocean after she was chasing a swimmer.
The discussion went like this"God dam Mike if this is how steel shot works on birds than Im sorry but I will not be hunting anymore,That was terrible. That is how I felt, I enjoy wing shooting but the birds we wounded & lost were going to die a terrible death & as far as I was concerned it was F...ed up & Unethical to say the least.
2 weeks after the hunt I was sitting @ home & decided to cut open one of these shells.I was shocked to say the least . The shot was different in size some oval all irregular ,It even had flat spots unbelievable.So I had found the reason for us wounding so many birds.
I did a test,I called the role test. Where I would put all the shot from a shell in a tin lid and proceeded to slide photographs under until the shot started role down. Normal round lead shot only took 2 to 3 photo's to make it role. Winchester Expert shot took more than 20 photo's make it role, and some of the shot did not role at all.Check out the pictures in my photo bucket album.
I was so pissed off I wrote to Winchester & Wallmart ,I did not get any replies, But thought they would pull it off the shelves.I did not follow up & even more pissed after reading this thread.I have been shooting birds & used to guide wing shooters in SA.I used to reload and no that Irregular Non round or Swept shot is no good for hunting .
All I can say to duck hunters out there is don't shoot this crap ammo at birds,its just not ethical.If you do count the birds you have winged & lost as your bag limit.
http://s794.photobucket.com/albums/y...0expert%2012g/
heyblast
11-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Crazy Farmer. Cut one of those #3 shells open that I assumed you bought this season and tell us what the shot looks like. Maybe Winchester has cleaned up thier act. The shell I cut open was 3 years old.
Crazy_Farmer
11-26-2009, 10:48 PM
I may just do that, but really why waste one when I could shoot a duck with it. I'm not about to go cutting a perfectly good shell up just to see if the pellets are all round. I get my results in the field. So what if they arent perfectly round. I've seen the pellets from hevi-shot and remington hd shells. And that stuff is damn near perfect.
But I still keep killing them with xperts so why sweat it. I do see where you're coming from though.
Round pellets might win a pellet rolling competition, but I'm not convinced they kill ducks any better.
Crazy_Farmer
11-26-2009, 10:51 PM
Round pellets might win a pellet rolling competition, but I'm not convinced they kill ducks any better.
Haha thats signature worthy right there lol.
Hell give me a punt gun, I dont know what I'd rather load it with. A bag of perfect round pellets or a bunch of nuts and bolts. :mrgreen:
The winchester ammo I used was 4 years ago.I hope they have cleaned up there act.
lp270win
11-26-2009, 10:53 PM
I use this stuff all the time..................our first trip out this year on Nov. 11th we only shot 11 between the 2 of us. I shot 8 out of the 11 and only shot 9 shells. All DEAD minus one clean miss. Mostly pass shooting aswell. Never have a problem with this stuff. I use 2 3/4 #2 out of my ithaca xl 900 and will continue to do so.
Round pellets sure do fly allot straighter then irregular ones.Simple physics!
If you had a choice,would you use Round pellets Or oval Irregular shaped pellets?
lp270win
11-26-2009, 11:08 PM
Ive used both the federals and winchester. Ill admit I've opened both and federal do have a more uniform pellet shape and size. However, I dont cripple more birds with one or the other (and hardly ever do anyway). At $13 a box I'll be sticking with winchester xperts.
longshot
11-26-2009, 11:12 PM
(Hey "Spy" I posted your pic for you on my thread.)
Since we can only shoot steel at ducks, which has a very light density compared to lead(illegal) or high density shot(who wants to spend 30$ a box? right??), we need every bit in these shots to drop birds.
When you see a duck at 35 yards, with 2's! shouldn't matter what brand, you should drop it in one shot, maybe two if you hit him in the A**. But 3-5 and it goes sailing?? Hmm. something aint right. Thats when dad and I took a look at these scatter-shots, and we found what was wrong.
Before we know it, we'll see "DEAD DUCKS" for our 6 o'clock news. Hey, even with lead you'll get the odd cripple. But these shells need to be gone. To many wounded birds and not enough stoned. We neeeeed round and consistant sized and equal weight pellets to kill. Not random tin foil balls.
Sure you can shoot pebbles at a duck at 15 yards and it'll fall, but shots should kill up to an easy 35 yards. As most hunters shoot at around 30 yards on average. With experts, more and more ducks are going belly up unclaimed. And there are many irresponsible hunters who wont claim there "sailers" in their bag.
__________________________________________________ _______________
We bought 10 boxes from our local store, and we are going to show to the guy that we dealt with the pellets and see what he has to say. And I am definately going to send a notice to DU, Winchester, and anywhere else I can to get these far far far away.
If some of you guys out there can get ducks in at 15 yards ALL THE TIME, sure these shells are a fine fit for you. But for the other 80% of hunters who shoot at 25-35 yards, I strongly dont recomend these.
Longshot junior
Longshot, Im with you all the way.I cant believe Winchester is still manufacturing this crap as I said I wrote them letters 5 years ago.Do the math If 100 hunters buy these rounds,shoot there bag of 8, wing or wound another 20.Thats 2800 birds.2000 birds floating that is a crime.Im sure there are allot more than 100. Its much easier to retrieve birds on land then it is in the salt chuck.
As I said I nearly lost my dog,after she swam after a swimmer.It took her nearly a half hour to get back to shaw,thank god she found a back eddy created by the island we were on. She was so exausted when she got back to land she could hardly stand & was hypothermic. Thanks winchester for a great Hunt, NOT.
303Brit
11-26-2009, 11:49 PM
Well I have gone through a flat of Xperts this yr, I have only lost 3 cripples 2 were due to a corn field, and the 3rd was due low light and not wanting to screw up a flock that was locked up for my buddies.
Outside of that I have folded up ducks with #4's at an easy 30yds or better. During first goose season I was folding up geese with #2's in the 25-30yd range.
@$14.00/box When I am using a $200 Maverick shotgun and Killing just as much as the guy I hunt with his SX2 and Blackclouds. I really don't see the point, I mean every once and a while he'll fold up a bird at 40ish yards and I mean fold it up. But Most times I wouldn't look at taking that shot unless sure of prior wounding.
could just be me. I do tend to be able to get most of my birds to fully commit so basically I choose when to shoot and I'm never more then 10yards from my spread.
just my 303cents
P.S I'm a Field/Sheet puddle hunter
303Brit
11-26-2009, 11:55 PM
If you had a choice,would you use Round pellets Or oval Irregular shaped pellets?
I dunno Adam Vinatieri Seems to have no problems kicking a oval shape thing 50yards. most of the time he even kicks it through the uprights
303
I believe That it kills at close range. But anything over 20 yards & your pattern starts going for a ball of shit & pellets loose velocity ie more wounded birds.I believe if you are going to be manufacturing rounds & put the words Expert on the round,than the shot better be round.
I believe you guys are seasoned hunters but what about the novice hunter,s that start shooting at 50 yards. There are allot of guys on here that don't really no to wait for birds to come into range.
I dunno Adam Vinatieri Seems to have no problems kicking a oval shape thing 50yards. most of the time he even kicks it through the uprights
303
If the oval ball was reaching the velocity's we are talking about no it would not make it through the uprights. The round ball would have a better chance. Physics Man Physics. Unless it had the right amount of spin.I cant believe you are using this as an example.
Well I have gone through a flat of Xperts this yr, I have only lost 3 cripples 2 were due to a corn field, and the 3rd was due low light and not wanting to screw up a flock that was locked up for my buddies.
Outside of that I have folded up ducks with #4's at an easy 30yds or better. During first goose season I was folding up geese with #2's in the 25-30yd range.
@$14.00/box When I am using a $200 Maverick shotgun and Killing just as much as the guy I hunt with his SX2 and Blackclouds. I really don't see the point, I mean every once and a while he'll fold up a bird at 40ish yards and I mean fold it up. But Most times I wouldn't look at taking that shot unless sure of prior wounding.
could just be me. I do tend to be able to get most of my birds to fully commit so basically I choose when to shoot and I'm never more then 10yards from my spread.
just my 303cents
P.S I'm a Field/Sheet puddle hunter
How many rounds in a flat?
303Brit
11-27-2009, 01:00 AM
How many rounds in a flat?
10 Boxes so 250rnds
303
I am not here to agree or disagree, but when it comes to shooting either birds or big game animals. The means I use better be adequate, so I can make a clean kill. You ask any expert clay shooter or hunter & they will tell you the same as I am,shot has to be round. What I want to know from you hunters is,Why would you use a substandard round if you know there is a chance you will wound & loose your game?
10 Boxes so 250rnds
303
So you have shot & retrieved 247 birds this season?
303Brit
11-27-2009, 02:24 AM
Not quite, that sounds more like a Marc number on the season.
I patterned a box of #2's and #4's (let the wife try out the shotgun as well)
I'd say I hit 65-75% of what I shoot at (rushed second shot, tunnel vision, etc), and that 10% of those required a follow up either to enable an easy retrieve (from the tall grass or tree line) or to prevent a cripple getting away.
I would say a further 10% of my hits are multiple hunters hitting the same bird or a killshot on a bird someone else drew first blood on. Birds I didn't take home.
So by that math I should have brought home 106-122 birds less three cripples, off the top of my head I could account for 73 birds. Those were the memorable shoots that have really made me want become an all round fowler. That would leave between 30-46 birds, and given general open season has been on for about a month and a half. I have gone out every other or every third day, and I've only been skunked twice. Those numbers make sense to me.
hope this is laid out in a logical format, I am pretty tired and the youngest does not want to go back too sleep.
I am flattered you think I have downed over 240 birds though ;)
303
P.S I may have hit more, but I haven't kept a logor anything so I figure I put up conservative numbers. I know I have made a tonne of Goose Jerky and roast a lot of bird this year.
f350ps
11-27-2009, 09:01 AM
One important thing you guys are missing here is the fact that this is Winchesters economy line. If ya wanna quit whining don't be so cheap and buck up for a premium ammo. And my offer still stands, fifty cents on the dollar and I'll take all ya got. K
Ian F.
11-27-2009, 09:41 AM
f350ps beat me too it, you get what you pay for!
Experts are the bottom end of the winchester line. Myself I prefer to shoot kents, but have shot lots of experts and will in the future. Yes the pellets are mis-shapen, yes they are less effective then a premium shell, but not so significant to start a witch hunt against a reputable company.
Before you lynch the shell I'd first ask if you've patterned your gun? Do you get the birds decoying, or passing? Do you spend time at the clays range?
The number of variables in shotgunning is astounding, the surest answer to dead birds is getting them close and knowing what your gun will do!
and as a final note, I find #4's are the worst shot size for my guns and style of hunting, #3's are a totally different kettle of fish though..
Very best,
Ian
well i agree with spy and long shot
as for whining, knobody is. We found out the hard way that the shot is shit. You guys are comparing yourselves against the whole.
You guys that do a tonne of shooting ducks are of course way better than myself. 303 brit, pgk and f350ps. obviously are good shooters.
but stop and think of all the new or inexperianced fowlers out there thinking they are buying the right #2 shot or whatever and dont understand why all thoes birds go missing.
point is the stuff is crap, it is advertised as a specific shot size which it is not and birds are dying in the bush because of it.
so you guys that are arguing that this shot is ok stop thinking about what you do and look at the big picture. you are not it.
i spend the best buck i can on shot i can because i dont do this three days a week, i shoot 3 boxes at ducks a year i shoot at responsible distances but im not as good as you
f350ps
11-27-2009, 10:04 AM
Ian hit the nail on the head! Patterning your gun is probably the most important thing there is. Next it would be learning to judge yardage. I've seen a ton of shots made where guys will say it was 70 yds. when in actual fact it was more like 45 yds. Seventy yards is a looong way! I would venture to say that most of my shots are inside 25 yds with the bulk of them closer to 15 or 20 yds. To top it off they are all with one of them cheap black guns with the plastic stock. :) K
you are right f350ps
these are the appropriate things to do.
my only point is the lack of proper advertising on the box of experts
i dont know how you would word it cuz "$hit shot" probably wouldnt work.
trouble is there are a tonne of people out there who dont take the proper steps who are proper stand up hunters.
what if my 130gr .270 was mixed with 140gr and 150gr
i go to the range and dont understand why they dont shoot?
that is what im getting at.
well i agree with spy and long shot
as for whining, knobody is. We found out the hard way that the shot is shit. You guys are comparing yourselves against the whole.
You guys that do a tonne of shooting ducks are of course way better than myself. 303 brit, pgk and f350ps. obviously are good shooters.
but stop and think of all the new or inexperianced fowlers out there thinking they are buying the right #2 shot or whatever and dont understand why all thoes birds go missing.
point is the stuff is crap, it is advertised as a specific shot size which it is not and birds are dying in the bush because of it.
so you guys that are arguing that this shot is ok stop thinking about what you do and look at the big picture. you are not it.
i spend the best buck i can on shot i can because i dont do this three days a week, i shoot 3 boxes at ducks a year i shoot at responsible distances but im not as good as you
835 This is exactly what Im getting at! It is unfortunate for the birds.I remember when I started wing shooting 100 rounds did not last a morning.
Not quite, that sounds more like a Marc number on the season.
I patterned a box of #2's and #4's (let the wife try out the shotgun as well)
I'd say I hit 65-75% of what I shoot at (rushed second shot, tunnel vision, etc), and that 10% of those required a follow up either to enable an easy retrieve (from the tall grass or tree line) or to prevent a cripple getting away.
I would say a further 10% of my hits are multiple hunters hitting the same bird or a killshot on a bird someone else drew first blood on. Birds I didn't take home.
So by that math I should have brought home 106-122 birds less three cripples, off the top of my head I could account for 73 birds. Those were the memorable shoots that have really made me want become an all round fowler. That would leave between 30-46 birds, and given general open season has been on for about a month and a half. I have gone out every other or every third day, and I've only been skunked twice. Those numbers make sense to me.
hope this is laid out in a logical format, I am pretty tired and the youngest does not want to go back too sleep.
I am flattered you think I have downed over 240 birds though ;)
303
P.S I may have hit more, but I haven't kept a logor anything so I figure I put up conservative numbers. I know I have made a tonne of Goose Jerky and roast a lot of bird this year.
Thanks for been honest sounds like you are having a great season.
Mike. Ps. I hope you got some sleep & thanks for your 303 cents worth
I've opened a bunch of rounds. And have found this in almost all of them.
Kent and Black Cloud are the only ones i find are round and consistant.
so its what I shoot.
I can understand the cost factor these guys must have that shoot alot.
And i would love to hunt with them. I dont doubt they are doing what they say and i dont think they are out there crippeling birds.
So if any of you big shooters need a partner i'll buy the shot! just pm me!
good huntin
Interesting post.......l started water fouling 3 years ago and have used experts since l began. I hunt with a fellow who is what l would call an expert shot who up till this year has used Kent, but because it was unavailable when he was looking, he bought a case of expert. His shooting is as deadly as ever and its been my limited experience that the experts work fine as long as l do my part. The Winchester expert may be everything some are saying but when you can occasionally shoot your limit with as many shots, l don't know what you could buy for shells that would make it any better.
Far too many Variables involved for the beginner & novice. Allot of guys don't even know they have hit the bird.Ie if they were using premium rounds their success rate would increase.
303Brit
11-27-2009, 12:42 PM
Hey Spy
No worries, I got a little bit of sleep.
So I re-read my post seems ok to me still, I should also add that at about $145.00 for a flat. Even if I have only rendered 106 birds and taken home 103 of them, that would mean my shell output per bird costs me $1.37. That I can live with, not that I won't try other shells.
Most of the time it's a availablility thing combined with a wife in a post secondary Nursing program thing. I can buy at least 2 box of 3" Xperts for the price of one blackcloud sometimes 3 depending on the shop. Buying the Xperts lets me shoot more which is what I am all about:twisted:
Especially considering we no longer have a Shooting team at CFB Comox, meaning I don't get many "Free Ammo Days!!!" anymore.
303
303Brit
11-27-2009, 12:44 PM
If the oval ball was reaching the velocity's we are talking about no it would not make it through the uprights. The round ball would have a better chance. Physics Man Physics. Unless it had the right amount of spin.I cant believe you are using this as an example.
Teasing YA lol
303
303Brit
11-27-2009, 12:53 PM
Thanks 835,
I like to think I am a reasonable shot, I am by no means a super expeirence fowler. First year of Geese and kinda shot duck off an on a bit as a kid. All I am doing her is explaining what I am doign and how it is working out for me.
It is not my intent to make myself sound like that best fowler on the planet. But like 350 and a few others pointed out you do get what you pay for. And right now I'm enjoying what what I'm get @ approx $1.37/bird. But like I have also said I'm a field/puddle shooter, and I let the birds decoy. So the water shooting I may not have the same outcome.
I try to be very patient, sometimes even letting the first flock land in the dekes and hitting the second flock seems to increase the ease of target selection.
303
So CFB comox guy to CFB esquimalt guy..... where you goin :)
just kidding!
i shoot over water and am not really knowing how to decoy. I have 12 crappy decoys. I do my duck hunting on the chuck in tofino / ukee
most of my game is location. In a bottleneck or where they naturlly want to be. i use the trees to judge my shots, under the tops i shoot over i dont (40-yds). I am trying to figure the decoy thing but the trouble is is the coast isnt really a flyway it's more puddle jumping like. They dont come to you you go to them.
anyway good debate good luck
303Brit
11-27-2009, 07:17 PM
835
I hunt right in town, the birds decoy pretty good for the most part. everyonce and a awhile we got pick a different field as they tend to get skiddish and circle lots after 3 or 4 days in the same spot. But when we get rain and the puddles swell, they get stupid and land where ever, I only have about 30 dekes and 12 of them are cheapos and the rest I guess are about mid price.
Good luck to you as well
303
heyblast
11-27-2009, 07:36 PM
Okay I've been hunting waterfowl for 37 years so I'm not new to this. I hunt over decoys and keep most shots in close 20/25 yds. less if I can but I will shoot out to 40 yds. or I should say up, I currently don't have a dog so I want the ducks falling close and in open water not in the grass. Because my shooting distances vary I can't depend on Experts doing the job. I understand the cost factor, I'm going to use Black Clouds tomorrow, but I would much prefer to spend less money on shells, but I just will not use bad ammunition and that's what I think of the Experts. Yesterday I suggested Crazy Farmer cut one of his #3 s open which I assume he recently purchased, and I still ask you to do it. If your worried about the cost I'll give you the money for the shell, or better yet I'll give you the box and a half that I have and won't use. I really would like to know what the shot looks like, I hope it's better than what I found and then I would think about using them again and saving some money. The picture Longshot got posted for Spy shows shot that is better than what I found which I don't know how else to describe than what I already posted. I'll say again that if the Winchester shell's are working for you whether it's your gun or hunting style then by all means stick with it but to date Winchester just doesn't work for me. And anyone going out tommorrow good luck, with all this rain it could be tough, the ducks I'm sure will be scattered all over .
field marshal
11-27-2009, 08:15 PM
Crazy and the rest of you guys who shoot EXPERTS!
I'm with you guys:-D I shoot Experts from my 12 guages.
I'm old and cheap and use whatever works. The main reason for cripples is
poor shooting and sky busting. I do get the odd bird every year:mrgreen::mrgreen:.
Yours in frugality, the Field Marshal.
f350ps
11-27-2009, 08:22 PM
I cut an Xpert HV #2 apart tonight and found a beautiful blend. The majority of the shot was #2 with 9 pellets that I would say are BB and 4 pellets that would be about a #1 size. There was definetly a few that were not perfectly round. Just as I would suspect for an ECONOMY shell!! K
The picture Longshot got posted for Spy shows shot that is better than what I found which I don't know how else to describe than what I already posted.
Don't only check out that picture, check out all the pictures in my album. Especially the one with normal shot in the other tin lid.It shows that it only takes 3 pictures underneath to get them ALL rolling,whereas it takes 20 + pictures underneath the lid on Winchester Expert shot, for some to start rolling, most still haven't moved. you be the Judge.
album.http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy226/Hunterspy/200_001E.jpg
f350ps
11-27-2009, 09:17 PM
Ya sorry, I never did the photo test so I'm gonna do the dead Mallard test tomorrow. Have fun!! K
303Brit
11-27-2009, 09:23 PM
Ya sorry, I never did the photo test so I'm gonna do the dead Mallard test tomorrow. Have fun!! K
LMAO
I don't think I have 20 actual pics lying around to do that with.:)
303
Ya sorry, I never did the photo test so I'm gonna do the dead Mallard test tomorrow. Have fun!! K
Have a great day maiming birds. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Spy, you're getting really annoying. Maybe you can afford three bucks a round premium shells, but for those of us that can cut them in close and whack em in the lips, $13 shells do just fine. Pattern your gun, shoot some skeet, practice your calling. There's no excuse for wounded birds other than poor shot selection and poor shooting.
So you have shot & retrieved 247 birds this season?
Not quite, that sounds more like a Marc number on the season.
OK first off I've nowhere near shot that many birds this or any season.
Different size pellets isn't really that much of a factor when you're shooting within the effective range of steel shot, some reloaders including myself have and will mix shot size in their loads depending on their intended purpose. I've loaded #2 & #3 shells and have had great success with them. I've also loaded #2 & BB together as well so I wouldn't have to keep switching shells when hunting ducks and geese.
Take the expert loads to the range and pattern them and see what they are doing at 20-35 yards as this is the range that steel shot is effective at.
I don't buy this new or novice hunters are not in the same league and require better shells. New and novice hunters need to learn and be taught to shoot within 40 yards and if they can't hit them there then wait until they are within 25 yards. Duck & Goose hunting is about decoys and calling, shooting is a bonus.
The best way to cut down on the number of cripples is pattern your gun, practice on the off season, shoot within 25-30 yards, and hunt with a trained retriever. If you can't afford a dog then limit your shooting to high percentage shots. Just because a duck flies within 40 yards doesn't mean you have to start shooting at that range.
f350ps
11-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Pretty much what I've been saying all along. Ya gotta love the blended loads. K
I might be annoying, but I Know when Im right!
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is & meet me on the clay range after the season. Bring your Winchester Expert ammo & I will shoot the equivalent in any other brand. You can choose trap,skeet or sporting clays.
I will pay for your round & put a $100 bucks on it.I will even shoot a borrowed gun.
When we are done I will buy you a bear.
OK first off I've nowhere near shot that many birds this or any season.
Different size pellets isn't really that much of a factor when you're shooting within the effective range of steel shot, some reloaders including myself have and will mix shot size in their loads depending on their intended purpose. I've loaded #2 & #3 shells and have had great success with them. I've also loaded #2 & BB together as well so I wouldn't have to keep switching shells when hunting ducks and geese.
Take the expert loads to the range and pattern them and see what they are doing at 20-35 yards as this is the range that steel shot is effective at.
I don't buy this new or novice hunters are not in the same league and require better shells. New and novice hunters need to learn and be taught to shoot within 40 yards and if they can't hit them there then wait until they are within 25 yards. Duck & Goose hunting is about decoys and calling, shooting is a bonus.
The best way to cut down on the number of cripples is pattern your gun, practice on the off season, shoot within 25-30 yards, and hunt with a trained retriever. If you can't afford a dog then limit your shooting to high percentage shots. Just because a duck flies within 40 yards doesn't mean you have to start shooting at that range.
Marc I agree with everything in your post. But I am not talking about blended loads or cocktails as we used to call them. The shot that Winchester is loading in their Expert rounds is just ugly. The no 4s we were using were not getting the job done.We were hunting over decoys & the birds were coming in wings locked.30 yards max.
f350ps
11-27-2009, 11:30 PM
Have a great day maiming birds. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
If I was maiming birds as you suggest I would be looking at changing something. May it be shells, shot size, chokes etc. I've been yankin yer chain all along about the blended load thing, but I give up, yer too serious. You go buy whatever shell that will help ya and I'll do the same. K
I might be annoying, but I Know when Im right!
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is & meet me on the clay range after the season. Bring your Winchester Expert ammo & I will shoot the equivalent in any other brand. You can choose trap,skeet or sporting clays.
I will pay for your round & put a $100 bucks on it.I will even shoot a borrowed gun.
When we are done I will buy you a bear.
Hell, the hundred bucks might pay my gas. Being arrogant on the internet is silly, you never know who you're talking to. I would spank you with my 410.
I would still Like to buy you a beer,or shoot a round of clays.
Mike.
Hell, the hundred bucks might pay my gas. Being arrogant on the internet is silly, you never know who you're talking to. I would spank you with my 410.
Let's go, bring your 410 or 12g & your winchester Expert ammo. Im not being arrogant, Im just passionate about the things I believe in. When we are done I will buy you a beer aswell.
303Brit
11-28-2009, 12:05 AM
Really Marc Based on your Pics, I'd say you gotta be on track for a 240 plus season. If your season maintains its pace and you able to continue going out.
That aside, I fully agree with everything you said especially the patterning bit. Could just be that my cheap shotgun digests cheap shells well I don't know, maybe one day I can get a fancy autoloader.
303
field marshal
11-28-2009, 10:05 AM
It's always amazing to me why Johnny come latelys come on this site
and question the motives of experienced waterfowlers. I grew up in the
lead shot era. Their are no more wounded birds today than there were then!! In fact I believe gunners today are more aware of letting game
get right in effective kill zones. This is because of all the hype surrounding
steel shot. All the stuff about patterning each gun has been correctly
stated before on this site!! Shot shell selection is a personal choice.
I take out a few NEWBIES every year. Those willing to learn the game and
make an effort to better themselves are invited back. Those that don't
are not. LEARN HOW TO SHOOT!!! The speed pellets are travelling, or what they look like ,doesn't mean SHIT to a duck, when he is spiralling to
earth as dead as DISCO.:-D
Good shooting everyone! By the way those wishing to join MARC"S
fan club contact 303 Brit:mrgreen: Cheers, Field Marshal
crazy ducker
11-28-2009, 11:02 AM
you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. it's like rifle shooting each gun shoots a bullet different. for my 3006 any cheap federal will do but my 300 min mag only the expensive stuff works it like that, if your not happy switch brands for ducks i hate federal they are not good for me I have not tried experts because a friend gave me kents to try and love them so why switch. if your not happy sell them to f350 and move on. and buy a different brand of shell
It's always amazing to me why Johnny come latelys come on this site
and question the motives of experienced waterfowlers
It's because they are all legends........at least in their own minds, here to bestow their galactic wealth of experience on those of us who are incapable of understand the fine intricacies of how to shoot a duck. You may have mistakenly assumed that old Stevens that has been successfully filling your limits for the last 30 years with what ever ammo you fed it was the right way, but no .......just ask and you shall be enlightened. Shooting a duck is alot more then hitting where you aim, if you're not using the latest greatest fastest and usually most expensive gun and ammo on the market, you are truly doing a great disservice to our water fowl. :)
field marshal
11-28-2009, 12:32 PM
PGK-- What are you going to do with the BEAR , SPY is buying for you??:confused:
Cheers, Field Marshal.
303Brit
11-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Ouch Field, I'll start one for you in the new year:mrgreen:
303
longshot
11-28-2009, 08:29 PM
Well, dad and I hit a field today and we brought our Ancient European Double Barrels. We took them as my grandfather passed away this year and we wanted to make him proud by killing birds with his original first shotguns. And yes we HAD to use our experts as it's the only stuff we have and we don't want to buy anything else till we run out.
First ducks comes in at about 25 yards, I hit one twice (both shots hit em) and didn't fall, then dad gives em' two, and the bloody duck flutters then falls to another field??? Funny cause after each shot he got slower, and slower... This happened twice then we got fed up decided to only get them in our face. Then a hen lands 15 yards away, my dad took the shot and killed it. But when the pellets hit the water I saw the biggest spread I've ever seen at 15 yards??? Anyway we still got a solid 7 ducks.
__________________________________________________ _____________
The main purpose of my thread was to show you guys you arn't getting what you're paying for. You buy 2's, you should get 2's, not BB-6. If we wanted the blended shot, we'd get blended shot. Heck, these experts here in Victoria are 18.99 a box!! (total rip!)
jr.
Geeze go away for a weekend and..... wow!
i think we all got our point across.
Theo722
12-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Shot kent's, and blackclouds with my O/U at the start. Could not find anymore and saw W. Experts around and used those. Started with #2's then tried #3's and #4's. #3's and #4's were just not dropping them as well for me as #2's. As a note, I've always had a Robo so they were comming in quite close. Having only shot 6 rounds of trap before I ever hunted waterfowl, I waited till they were really close. I couldn't assume confidence in my shooting just cause I look good in camo. They dropped and I sprinted for them to not loose sight since about 2 in 3 didn't die right off. That was me not the shells. I shot alot last year and a fair bit this year, not as much rain and no field access so weekends on public land is just not an option for me anymore. I'm getting better but still wait for close shot's since I'm cheap so don't want to waste ammo, and as a happy byproduct, live's of birds on I hope I hit shots from the sound of the posts regarding the Win Experts effectiveness. I usually use a box of ammo or less per outing, not cause I'm good, cause I'm too cheap to wan't to use two boxes for the same results. I'm not qualified to judge anything but myself so I can only say Win Exp 3" #2's are my go to ammo (cost and same results as 'spensive ammo) and really close is my fire control (cause I like to hit them)
shadow1982
12-29-2009, 12:55 PM
All i want to say is " a bullet is only as effective as the person shooting it". If you are a poor shot no matter if you are shootine black cloud or kent you are still going to injure birds
Yes i shoot Xperts and i am on my forth box this season and i have downed 78 birds, most of the birds i shoot are also within 20 yrds and i know i would miss or just injure the bird if i shoot anything outside my confort zone so i just dont shoot them.
f350ps
12-29-2009, 03:33 PM
You must be one helluva shot!!! K
shadow1982
12-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Not really, just too cheap,lol... Every missed bullet is money thrown in the gutter" i rather wait extra few seconds so they can come closer then take a chance
Gunner
12-29-2009, 03:59 PM
I normally use Kent #3s, when I can't get them I'll use expert #3s.I shoot over good decoys and I know how to call,I've noticed no difference in my kill ratio.I have the luxury of being able to pull mostly uneducated birds in close,and I don't miss many.If there is a difference it will be in the longer range spectrum,and the shooter always has the choice on whether to pull the trigger or not.I could care less about pellet shape,pattern your loads at 40yds,and then make your decision on ammo. Gunner
limit time
01-01-2010, 01:14 AM
....Well I'm new to this duck huntin' stuff and thanks to Cazy_Farmer my bag limits have increased:-D
That being said, I took apart some shells.
This is what i found, Sorry for the shitty pics!
pic-1, is xpert #2 hv steel. the shot is really deformed and different sizes.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll305/satan300wsm/DSC01949.jpg
pic-2, is xpert BB hv steel. the shot was fairly uniform in size with little deformation.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll305/satan300wsm/DSC01955.jpg
pic-3, is Remington sportsman hi-speed steel BB. this shot is real nice, all uniform in size and no deformation.
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll305/satan300wsm/DSC01953.jpg
I'm sorry I had no #2 in another brand, when i get some I will post a pic.( I think my bro has some Black cloud)
Happy new year!
f350ps
01-01-2010, 03:12 AM
And the point is? It's well known that you only get the blended shot in #2 shot HV Xperts. Ya get what ya pay for! K
limit time
01-01-2010, 10:30 AM
And the point is? It's well known that you only get the blended shot in #2 shot HV Xperts. Ya get what ya pay for! K
Is the "blended shot" in all #2 shell brands? (I'm new to this)
heyblast
01-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Limit time thanks for your post. Now I can see that the larger shot size is fairly uniform compared to smaller shot size. At 1550 fps. the BB should be a good option for geese. As for blended no were is it marked as blended on the box. It's one size shot wether it is #2,#4 or what ever size is marked on the box that's the size. The pellets should all be a uniform size and the winchesters don't seem to be that way.
limit time
01-01-2010, 02:47 PM
Limit time thanks for your post. Now I can see that the larger shot size is fairly uniform compared to smaller shot size. At 1550 fps. the BB should be a good option for geese. As for blended no were is it marked as blended on the box. It's one size shot wether it is #2,#4 or what ever size is marked on the box that's the size. The pellets should all be a uniform size and the winchesters don't seem to be that way.
Thanks for the reply!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.