View Full Version : Resident Hunter and Angler Input to MOE.
BCrams
11-12-2009, 10:49 AM
I think the MOE is really behind the times in communicating with the resident hunters and anglers of British Columbia.
The recent post by PeaceRegionInfo regarding only 10 responses so far results in this post / poll. (even I was shaking my head at a .pdf you couldn't fill in)
What system would prompt you to provide more input to the Ministry of Environment fish and wildlife regulation changes?
#1fishslayer
11-12-2009, 10:57 AM
I like the point and click idea of a website.
bigwhiteys
11-12-2009, 10:59 AM
It would take less than an hour to build such a webpage, that could have a series of questions, as well as provisions for hunter input.
Data could be forwarded to a database, or just to an email so somebody can collect, print, compile, whatever.....
Carl
yama49
11-12-2009, 11:01 AM
I like the point and click idea of a website.
x2 on website
BCrams
11-12-2009, 11:11 AM
It would take less than an hour to build such a webpage, that could have a series of questions, as well as provisions for hunter input.
Data could be forwarded to a database, or just to an email so somebody can collect, print, compile, whatever.....
Carl
I agree! MOE is so far out of tune with their own Resident anglers and hunters. Imagine the feedback and provincial representation they could get from residents!!
It would be easy to regulate so it was not abused either over and over by an individual.
Right below each Proposed Change there could be a simple click dot Yes / No / Undecided followed by comments section.
bigwhiteys
11-12-2009, 11:17 AM
I agree! MOE is so far out of tune with their own Resident anglers and hunters. Imagine the feedback and provincial representation they could get from residents!!
It would be easy to regulate so it was not abused either over and over by an individual.Ok... I got a good idea... I'll build it, and host in on my hunting blog. I'll forward ALL results to that MOE email. :)
What questions do we want?
I'll even buy a domain like bchunterfeedback.com or something.
Carl
BCrams
11-12-2009, 11:21 AM
No offence. But I think the MOE needs their own site to conduct this??
Then all PeaceRegionInfo et al. needs to do is post the link and they'll be flooded with answers.
The questions are already posted (regarding Proposed Regional Changes which prompted this poll). He says he only has 10 responses. They need to be more proactive and with the times to reach out to resident anglers and hunters.
bigwhiteys
11-12-2009, 11:24 AM
No offence. But I think the MOE needs their own site to conduct this??
Then all PeaceRegionInfo et al. needs to do is post the link and they'll be flooded with answers.
The questions are already posted (regarding Proposed Regional Changes which prompted this poll). He says he only has 10 responses. They need to be more proactive and with the times to reach out to resident anglers and hunters.
Fine, you can keep waiting then :)
Carl
They need their own site and some way of controlling access so that only resident huters can log in.
That said, a large majoriy of hunters do not use the internet....
Gunner
11-12-2009, 11:34 AM
They need their own site and some way of controlling access so that only resident huters can log in.
That said, a large majoriy of hunters do not use the internet....Resident hunters could log in using their Hunter Number,could they not? Gunner
BCrams
11-12-2009, 11:34 AM
They need their own site and some way of controlling access so that only resident huters can log in.
That said, a large majoriy of hunters do not use the internet....
Dude. It could also be for 'anglers'!
The 'majority' may not visit this site so to speak but there are ways to get the information out and I am sure most are familiar with the internet.
Goatguy disagrees with you, and I agree with him. If you want to bias the results in our (yours and mine) direction, yes by all means set up an internet questionnaire, website, etc. But you will not get a representative sample of the resident hunters...
The less we talk about fishing on the internet, the more good fisheries management can be done. Amazing, really.
GoatGuy
11-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Goatguy disagrees with you, and I agree with him. If you want to bias the results in our (yours and mine) direction, yes by all means set up an internet questionnaire, website, etc. But you will not get a representative sample of the resident hunters...
The less we talk about fishing on the internet, the more good fisheries management can be done. Amazing, really.
How do we even know what good fisheries management is?
BCrams
11-12-2009, 12:33 PM
Goatguy disagrees with you, .
I know he does!!
Its just a fun poll to show the way they're conducting things isn't that great to get involvement.
I'll agree getting personal such as phone in surveys and addressed mail ins are the way to go. Costs money too.
BiG Boar
11-12-2009, 12:39 PM
I hate to say it but I think this poll is biased. Obviously we all have computers and internet so it is easy for us. But I fear that most BC resident hunters probably dont have access, or know how to use a computer. I mean most of us cant even post pictures.
I hate to say it but I think this poll is biased. Obviously we all have computers and internet so it is easy for us. But I fear that most BC resident hunters probably dont have access, or know how to use a computer. I mean most of us cant even post pictures.
Haha now thats funny.
But I think you may have a point, thinking about my family of hunters I would say less than 50% of them use a computer.
How do we even know what good fisheries management is?
Well, you'll know you're close when you stop thinking about fisheries as being some kind of MSY model.
:neutral:
GoatGuy
11-12-2009, 01:11 PM
Well, you'll know you're close when you stop thinking about fisheries as being some kind of MSY model.
:neutral:
Hahahahaha, you missed the question.
How do you know what good freshwater fisheries management is?
What does good mean? Is it good for the fish, the angler or both and how do we know what is 'good'?
Funny how good and quality experience start becoming one and the same when you take your head out of the sand.
Leave it to me, I'll let you know when I need Greg to make me a poll.
Hahahahaha, you missed the question.
How do you know what good freshwater fisheries management is?
What does good mean? Is it good for the fish, the angler or both and how do we know what is 'good'?
GoatGuy
11-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Funny how good and quality experience start becoming one and the same when you take your head out of the sand.
Leave it to me, I'll let you know when I need Greg to make me a poll.
The experience and management have nothing to do with each other unless we're managing anglers.
What is good fisheries management?
What does that entail?
Are we talking about the resource or the resource users?
You need to properly identify the first question if you want to properly identify subsequent questions.
I don't think you're getting it.
:lol:
You do not want me to answer those questions. Remember, the less we talk about it, the more we can do ;)
GoatGuy
11-12-2009, 07:21 PM
:lol:
You do not want me to answer those questions. Remember, the less we talk about it, the more we can do ;)
Interesting thoughts, works for some.
boxhitch
11-12-2009, 10:14 PM
You missed the best option for the poll, to get hunters pro-active.
The option of having a representative show up at their home, with copies of several documents from which to choose the content and the addressed stamped envelopes to send the replies in. Said Rep then fills the envelope, seals and mails, while the hunter cheers her/him on with a beer in hand.
Everyone would get a say then.
BCrams
11-12-2009, 10:38 PM
You missed the best option for the poll, to get hunters pro-active.
The option of having a representative show up at their home, with copies of several documents from which to choose the content and the addressed stamped envelopes to send the replies in. Said Rep then fills the envelope, seals and mails, while the hunter cheers her/him on with a beer in hand.
Everyone would get a say then.
Super idea!! Is the MOE on board??
Gateholio
11-12-2009, 10:43 PM
You missed the best option for the poll, to get hunters pro-active.
The option of having a representative show up at their home, with copies of several documents from which to choose the content and the addressed stamped envelopes to send the replies in. Said Rep then fills the envelope, seals and mails, while the hunter cheers her/him on with a beer in hand.
Everyone would get a say then.
No reason this couldn't be done at a club level...Most of our members are on email, be easy to email directly as well as bring it up at a meeting.
How do we even know what good fisheries management is?
Let the Feds show us........................???????????????????????? ???
Talked to MOE in Cranbrook today and they said the responses are pouring in, most they've ever had. Still, I like your idea Greg if there's sections to include comments.
That being said you should have heard the input from the ranchers today, scary, beginning to wonder myself if they're not carrying this public consultation thing a little too far...??? Is public opinion pre-empting scientific management decisions?
boxhitch
11-12-2009, 11:00 PM
.??? Is public opinion pre-empting scientific management decisions?I would hope science trumps opinion, but once the conservaton concern is taken care of and the discussion is only about what opportunity, The fist on the desk probably gets the weight of the vote. The squeeky wheel......
BCrams
11-12-2009, 11:06 PM
[quote=6616;551848]Talked to MOE in Cranbrook today and they said the responses are pouring in, most they've ever had. Still, I like your idea Greg if there's sections to include comments.
Good to hear the responses pouring in. I sent mine in to them.
I believe they could get a lot more from 'resident hunters' than they're getting right now.
Gatehouse makes a good point with having the BCWF and local game clubs getting the information to resident hunters and getting this information back to the MOE. They can do more, but so can the MOE.
That being said you should have heard the input from the ranchers today, scary, beginning to wonder myself if they're not carrying this public consultation thing a little too far...??? Is public opinion pre-empting scientific management decisions?
Thats the problem with public consultation. Who become the experts / decision makers?? Do you think too much weight is put on public opinion versus managing wildlife for conservation??
huntwriter
11-12-2009, 11:42 PM
That said, a large majoriy of hunters do not use the internet....
And that would contradict a recent marketing survey form 2008 that established that over 70% of the hunters use the Internet as information source.
[quote]Do you think too much weight is put on public opinion versus managing wildlife for conservation??
Yes I believe that's happening in many cases today. There are basic biological decisions pretaining to herd health, etc, that need to be made by biologists, and social decisions regarding overall management objectives, etc, that it's valid to have public input into, but the line appears to be getting blurred.
The public should have input into the management objectives to some extent, but the strategies on how to attain those objectives, and the basic conservation requirements for a stable and healthy population should be the realm of professionals.
When I hear hunters who have lots of field experience but no biological training what-so-ever expressing opinions that MOE proposals are not sustainable, I start to get worried about where we're going with this public consultation system, because the next stage is failure of the proposal due to managers who are reluctant to go against public input, rod and gun clubs, and regional advisory committees. The NIMBY effect begins to take a toll good basic management practices.
GoatGuy
11-14-2009, 03:49 AM
And that would contradict a recent marketing survey form 2008 that established that over 70% of the hunters use the Internet as information source.
Where?
By whom?
What was the sample size and results?
yamadirt 426
11-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Hunter number access only. I chose email because I have a computer but it should be mailed to everyone with a number with the option of a reply buy whatever means possible.
Devilbear
11-14-2009, 12:05 PM
[quote=BCrams;551856]
Yes I believe that's happening in many cases today. There are basic biological decisions pretaining to herd health, etc, that need to be made by biologists, and social decisions regarding overall management objectives, etc, that it's valid to have public input into, but the line appears to be getting blurred.
The public should have input into the management objectives to some extent, but the strategies on how to attain those objectives, and the basic conservation requirements for a stable and healthy population should be the realm of professionals.
When I hear hunters who have lots of field experience but no biological training what-so-ever expressing opinions that MOE proposals are not sustainable, I start to get worried about where we're going with this public consultation system, because the next stage is failure of the proposal due to managers who are reluctant to go against public input, rod and gun clubs, and regional advisory committees. The NIMBY effect begins to take a toll good basic management practices.
I strongly disagree with this attitude as it enhances the specific problems we face in B.C. today. As it happens, ...biological training... in wildlife science, is based on field experience and to discount decades of such learning is, IMO, not a wise approach to management.
Biologists and Foresters are not infallible and decisions they make are not always "correct" from an ecosystematic perspective; the obvious issue is "Mysis" into Kootenay Lake circa 1949, by some of scientists of the F&WB of the day, IIRC.
I also am concerned with the "ownership" attitudes of many professionals who are employed by the BCFS and MOE, where Crown Land and wildlife-fisheries are concerned. To allow these civil servants greater authority is, IMO, a means of slowly eliminating all public influence over management decisions.
So, all in all, I want to see public opinion become stronger in respect of environmental issues of which wildlife is only one.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.