Cattle in the high country

[Fisher-Dude]

Anyone else noticing how many cattle are still wandering the hills? I ran into another herd of 8 at the 5,000 ft level this afternoon. They didn't look to be on their way down either. Shouldn't the cowboys be roundin' 'em up? What's the date for them to be off the rangeland?

[Dirty]

Can't you shoot them and take them if they aren't off the range by a certain date? For some of us, the odds would be higher than getting a moose draw. Mmmmm barnyard moose.

[KB90]

I'd say It's getting pretty late...but I'm no cowboy.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Most of them were down pretty low as soon as that cold snap hit Thanksgiving weekend...but I guess not all of them are woosies:-?.

SSS

[j270wsm]

I cant remember the exact date but here in the East kootenay's it is either the 1st of september or october. I think that if they are left out past their deadline they should become fair game.

[horshur]

Anyone else noticing how many cattle are still wandering the hills? I ran into another herd of 8 at the 5,000 ft level this afternoon. They didn't look to be on their way down either. Shouldn't the cowboys be roundin' 'em up? What's the date for them to be off the rangeland?

some camp and are tough to find as well as move...I do not know the dates in the okanogan here local is oct 15 but there are a few stragglers every year even into January.....

[One Shot]

For the most part I think most ranchers have taken their cattle down from summer pasture. Where there is open range used by different ranchers at there may be some cattle left behind from the round up and they usually will get gathered up when weather/instinct drives them down. I was up in parts of region 8 last week up to about 4000 ft and came across some small pockets of cattle but they appeared to be moving down along fence lines and roadways to be gathered up. There will always be a few cows that will spend the winter out. Only saw on guy out checking on cows.

[frenchbar]

Always a few stragglers that get off the beaten track and arent in a hurry to get home..they usualy get tucked away in decent places that have good eats. i believe its the 15th of oct that they have to be off the range like horshur says.

[Dirty]

Can you shoot them if they aren't off the range be a certain time?:mrgreen:

[frenchbar]

Ive chased them around on horses a few times ..can get quite frusterating:mrgreen:Felt like plugging a few too..lol

[TheDuckinator]

Can you shoot them if they aren't off the range by a certain time?:mrgreen:

I think that should be a new law! I definitely will second that!

[boxhitch]

Not enough money in cattle to go looking for them all. Letting the snow push them down is easier. Oct 15th is the date I heard, but no enforcement?
They come looking once one or two are smacked along S.S. Road.

[valleycowboy]

i thought the date around kelowna was oct. 31.
the last week,i've seen a few that seem to be following the snow level down.

[bad arrow]

I have to wonder why they are there in the first place, alls they do is spread weeds, walk around in creeks, and destroy the natural eco-systems, keep them out of the bush.

[hunter1947]

I come across a few cattle up around the 5,000 foot elevation this year it was on Oct 14 ,they are just bordering the area I hunt.

Never saw them up this hi at any other year http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

The ranchers have the right to let there cattle graze the hills on crown land in the EK ,I don't like it but whats a person to do about it ????.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

[Walksalot]

The rancher who owns the cattle might appreciate a phone call as to where they are.

[Bushy]

The rancher who owns the cattle might appreciate a phone call as to where they are.

They sure do, there are spread out from 3500 to 5000 ft. No or little snow to drive them down this year.
They have been busy looking for them and finding them, it's money walking around the bush.

Maybe helping them out will have them help you out, when there is a big buck an you want permission to access their property:wink:

[Ruger4]

In region 8 I know they like them out by Oct 31, helped wrangle move sort and ship last sunday as most are down but theres always stragglers.

[3kills]

oct 15th is the date i have always been told and i think that if they dont have them out by then u should be able to go get a special permit and then go out and plug them..and i know lots of guys that have cattle and i have family that has cattle and i tell them all the same thing...i seen a few last night up high still one being a great big range bull that wouldnt be good for anything but mcpukes hamburgers

[Devilbear]

I hate cows, always have, always will. I think that they should NOT be allowed on Crown Land as they pollute, introduce noxious foreign species and are fuggin ugly!

[Nooker77]

My outlaws are cattle ranchers...bottom line is when there in the range there not at home getting fed...$$$$$$ They pay a rate per head/day...cheap cheap cheap for them...They have to be off of range by end of Oct. always missing a few stragglers..if its a private lease then they can spend all friggin winter up there!! Look up on the deer winter ranges around Lumby..used to see 300+ M Deer up there! Cows eat every friggin blade/leave twig...nothing left for bambies! Cattle bus. like any other..BOTTOM line/pay the bills try and make it another year! Scary when the farmer doesnt worry about the "lost" head anymore cause they aint worth nothin!!!!:mrgreen:

[horshur]

I swear many cannot see past there own nose.....

what do you suppose the alternative of no cattle on range would actualy look like??

your sentimental utopian visions have no ground in reality.

A long time big lake resident who lives nearby the once famous Bonanza Ranch was showing pictures of back in the day...before much ranching.
The generational differance between the buck racks as the country opened up was more than revealing. Much larger and wider racks with heavier body wieghts now on mature deer. His fathers old bucks were narrow and heavy with short tines as well there are many more deer.

there are many benifits that we all can capitalize on because of ranching.

look at the okanogan as opposed to 40 years ago and tell me you prefer development over ranching.

[Ajsawden]

i was in region 8 last week and there was 9 Moo's wandering around in the hills above tulameen.

[Gilmore]

I hate cows, always have, always will. I think that they should NOT be allowed on Crown Land as they pollute, introduce noxious foreign species and are fuggin ugly!

Yeah get rid of all them ugly cows on the range, tofu burgers are better anyhow.

As for the noxious foreign species you speak of(I assume you mean weeds) you and I are more to blame than anyone for that. We bring our quads and pickups hundreds of miles covered in dirt, mud and yes weeds then proceed to drive all over the place spreading these noxious foreign species you speak of all over hells half acre. But yeah its the cows who were born on that range that never travel more than 50 miles of that range until its to the slaughterhouse that spread the evil noxiousness.:roll:

[rocksteady]

My outlaws are cattle ranchers...bottom line is when there in the range there not at home getting fed...$$$$$$ They pay a rate per head/day...cheap cheap cheap for them...They have to be off of range by end of Oct. always missing a few stragglers..if its a private lease then they can spend all friggin winter up there!! Look up on the deer winter ranges around Lumby..used to see 300+ M Deer up there! Cows eat every friggin blade/leave twig...nothing left for bambies! Cattle bus. like any other..BOTTOM line/pay the bills try and make it another year! Scary when the farmer doesnt worry about the "lost" head anymore cause they aint worth nothin!!!!:mrgreen:


And then the ranchers call for action because the wildlife is eating their hay piles in the winter......Poor ranchers can't make a living cause the big bad elk are eating the hay:mad:

No Sh*t (Sh@t) SHerlock......If your cattle eat all the forage during the summer, where do you think the wildlife is gonna go to eat in the winter?????

But they go crying to their MLA's and Ministers and "viola" more LEH for the "agricultural area".....

Having their cake and eatin it too.....


Rant over...For now !!

[pappy]

farmers collect subsidaries from the gov., get special tax forms for livestock. Thats our money they get and they send there cattle to eat the food of animals we hunt, and most tell us to eff off when we would like to hunt their land. I've heard about this one farmer out past the halfway river that put up private property signs on crown land. until some one had a property map showing he was on crown land. do you fellas think he did this by accident? I don't.

[GoatGuy]

I swear many cannot see past there own nose.....

what do you suppose the alternative of no cattle on range would actualy look like??

your sentimental utopian visions have no ground in reality.

A long time big lake resident who lives nearby the once famous Bonanza Ranch was showing pictures of back in the day...before much ranching.
The generational differance between the buck racks as the country opened up was more than revealing. Much larger and wider racks with heavier body wieghts now on mature deer. His fathers old bucks were narrow and heavy with short tines as well there are many more deer.

there are many benifits that we all can capitalize on because of ranching.

look at the okanogan as opposed to 40 years ago and tell me you prefer development over ranching.

I prefer development over ranching - actually I kinda like both.

Houses on winter range and range maggots in the alpine. Could there be a better combination?

[Devilbear]

I stand accused of spreading noxious weeds by quad, by gawd and I must simply state that I have NEVER even SAT ON a quad or any other atv,even at "Tradex" or at a friend's place, sorry.

I do drive my 1993 Corolla on gravel roads, but, "offroad", give me a break, it won't even cross a "waterbar". I NEVER have and NEVER WILL drive a 4x4 ANYWHERE except a forest road and I STILL HATE cows!

I also hate "development", especially in the Kootenays and on the lake, which now has a lot of huge, ugly houses built on what little "winter range" there was. Well, wtf, I guess I am a miserable old curmudgeon, but, I hate what is happening to B.C. and I fully intend to say so.

[Chuck]

WOW! I once seen a bunch of horses dead along the road near Joe Rich.

[Nooker77]

farmers collect subsidaries from the gov., get special tax forms for livestock. Thats our money they get and they send there cattle to eat the food of animals we hunt, and most tell us to eff off when we would like to hunt their land. I've heard about this one farmer out past the halfway river that put up private property signs on crown land. until some one had a property map showing he was on crown land. do you fellas think he did this by accident? I don't.

Well the way my outlaws complain..not sure about the Gov't checks rolling in..I will say with all that goes on today Dont you think we should THANK the farmers who provide us with OUR food! Where Do you think those veggies/chickens/pork/beef come from..oh ya we get it all from China! Think of what it would cost us if we lost the few farmers that are left...cant wait to get some of that Chinese cows milk...hmm i wonder whats in that!! lol If you've been told to eff off..maybe you should have asked to be on his land first..if hes a rude ahole...well he wouldnt be the first one and he wont be the last!! Like everything else theres good ones and bad ones and inbetween ones!! He isnt that a Mclean and Mclean song!!

[bad arrow]

I understand the economics quite well, but there's too many cattle on all the land, not just some area's. I walked for 3 hours up a ridge heading for a moose swamp and all there was in there were about 10 cows wallowing in the swamp, all the vegetation was trampled and no sign of moose, some cows maybe, but there's too many.

[horshur]

I prefer development over ranching - actually I kinda like both.

Houses on winter range and range maggots in the alpine. Could there be a better combination?

at least the range can recover but once housing development starts it is lost forever.

this deal has been documented in the states.the large holdings provided habitat however when ranches are broken up into small holdings they cease to be productive.



do some riding in the south chilcotin which was once rangleland for the Empire Cattle company....it is a beautiful place....unlike the ex rangeland around Kelowna full of houses.

[GoatGuy]

at least the range can recover but once housing development starts it is lost forever.

this deal has been documented in the states.the large holdings provided habitat however when ranches are broken up into small holdings they cease to be productive.



do some riding in the south chilcotin which was once rangleland for the Empire Cattle company....it is a beautiful place....unlike the ex rangeland around Kelowna full of houses.

I suppose if we're measuring the lesser of two.

I don't get too excited about it other then in the alpine. That range don't recover.

[betteroffishing]

so , no one has an answer ?? if theres an off by date , can they be harvested after that date ?

[riflebuilder]

:they are private property and you would be charged with theft if you shoot them.

[boxhitch]

so , no one has an answer ?? if theres an off by date , can they be harvested after that date ?Thought this was a rhetorical question, never took it seriously. :confused:But yu are serious ?

[JDR]

I swear many cannot see past there own nose.....

what do you suppose the alternative of no cattle on range would actualy look like??

your sentimental utopian visions have no ground in reality.

A long time big lake resident who lives nearby the once famous Bonanza Ranch was showing pictures of back in the day...before much ranching.
The generational differance between the buck racks as the country opened up was more than revealing. Much larger and wider racks with heavier body wieghts now on mature deer. His fathers old bucks were narrow and heavy with short tines as well there are many more deer.

there are many benifits that we all can capitalize on because of ranching.

look at the okanogan as opposed to 40 years ago and tell me you prefer development over ranching.

Don't logging and burns have the same effect?

Most places I hunt in the Okanagan there is no development, but there sure is a lot of cattle. I think there needs to be more balance - i.e. possibly fewer cattle in certain areas and restrictions on where they can go. There was another thread on here where people were complaining about all the damage caused by off-roaders. How about cattle? I've seen plenty of damage to sensitive habitat caused by cattle in the alpine and it aint pretty, but no one says a thing. Long gone are the days when we could drink out of a mountain creek, at least in the Okanagan, and I'm sure cattle played a role in that :icon_frow.

[compton]

Yes there is dates for cattle to be off the range but they all vary depending on the location of the range and type of permit the rancher has. It can vary anywhere from early Sept to middle of Nov.
Matter of fact there is way way less bovine on ranges in BC then ever before. Lots have ranches are reducing herds or closing shop because they can't make money. Ranching keeps more people working then hunting does so you guys might want to cut ranchers a little slack, it's quite the task to round up hundreds of cows over thousands of acres. It makes it even harder when people constantly leave gates open and cut fences or herd them around for fun.
I'm disappointed that hunters believe their inability to find game is caused by cattle grazing on crown land.

[betteroffishing]

not really a sreiouse question , i just dont know what the point is of having an out of the bush by this date rule if not adhearing to it draws no consequence is all , i am aware of the " no season in the regs means no legal season rule ". and as for cows keeping hunter success down , i find it disapointing that someone on here doesnt think cows have an impact on game densities and carrying capacity of an area, or are those all pine stump eating cows i see out there ?

[horshur]

not really a sreiouse question , i just dont know what the point is of having an out of the bush by this date rule if not adhearing to it draws no consequence is all , i am aware of the " no season in the regs means no legal season rule ". and as for cows keeping hunter success down , i find it disapointing that someone on here doesnt think cows have an impact on game densities and carrying capacity of an area, or are those all pine stump eating cows i see out there ?

I said it before.....cannot see past there nose.

do you propose to feed the world with wild hunted game???????

Somewhere somehow people have to face the realitys of life.

We cannot have our cake and eat it too.

Cattle ranching and the subsequent development in those areas has increased the carrying capacity for wild game as well.......

Agri development is the primary reason for the success of the whitetail deer. When my father was a boy whitetailed deer were non existant in the Peace Country.

[One Shot]

And then the ranchers call for action because the wildlife is eating their hay piles in the winter......Poor ranchers can't make a living cause the big bad elk are eating the hay:mad:

No Sh*t SHerlock......If your cattle eat all the forage during the summer, where do you think the wildlife is gonna go to eat in the winter?????

But they go crying to their MLA's and Ministers and "viola" more LEH for the "agricultural area".....

Having their cake and eatin it too.....


Rant over...For now !!

Well I don't think you are properly informed. Range practices dictate that cattle are to be moved about from range section to range section to prevent over grazing and to allow recovery. Provincial Range Managers dictate the number of acres per cow allowed on the range. On most ranges there is more forage after range development than there was before due to thining, burns and laying of feed seed by Forest and Range Departments.

Elk and deer are opportunists just like anything else. They see piled up feed in the winter they will go to it to eat <20% and throw the rest around to lay down, sh!t and p!ss on of which they or cows will not eat. This is a lot easier than foraging through the snow for food.

I have seen and harvested deer, moose and elk on ranch and range land near and some cases amongst cattle.

[rocksteady]

Well I don't think you are properly informed. Range practices dictate that cattle are to be moved about from range section to range section to prevent over grazing and to allow recovery. Provincial Range Managers dictate the number of acres per cow allowed on the range. On most ranges there is more forage after range development than there was before due to thining, burns and laying of feed seed by Forest and Range Departments.
.


Hate to break it to you, I am well informed, as I have worked in the Natural resource managment field for over 25 years in a lot of places in the province....

Yes, the managers dictate to the rancher where/when/how long the cattle can be on the unit, HOWEVER, there is very little enforcement or penalty if the ranchers do not comply.

This spring we were to do an Ecosystem Restoration burn (around 600 ha's) near Canal Flats.....The rancher was told to get his cattle out mid last summer to ensure we had enough forage to carry the burn....We went in this spring...nothing left.....The rancher had left his cattle on that unit til the last week of November......2 weeks after we looked at the site, cows were back in there.....


If you do not believe me that this happens quite consistantly, ask the others on HBC, such as 6616, Sawmill, Everett, Boyd and any other EK'er and see if they support your thoughts....

[6616]

Hate to break it to you, I am well informed, as I have worked in the Natural resource managment field for over 25 years in a lot of places in the province....

Yes, the managers dictate to the rancher where/when/how long the cattle can be on the unit, HOWEVER, there is very little enforcement or penalty if the ranchers do not comply.

This spring we were to do an Ecosystem Restoration burn (around 600 ha's) near Canal Flats.....The rancher was told to get his cattle out mid last summer to ensure we had enough forage to carry the burn....We went in this spring...nothing left.....The rancher had left his cattle on that unit til the last week of November......2 weeks after we looked at the site, cows were back in there.....


If you do not believe me that this happens quite consistantly, ask the others on HBC, such as 6616, Sawmill, Everett, Boyd and any other EK'er and see if they support your thoughts....


Yup that's pretty much what happened on that site at Canal Flats last spring, and it happens a lot also. If course some persons blamed elk winter grazing for the short stubble but a good friend of mine lives right next to the site and he said the area was pretty much full of cows well past the date the ground was frozen hard and covered by snow.

It's a tricky situation for sure, the tall dead grass is required to carry a ground fire in a prescribed burn site but if MOFR asks a rancher to remove cattle before his AUMs are used there needs to be an alternate site to put them and that's not easy since the range is nearly all committed. In that particular case it looks like he put them in there for one last rotation in late fall, quite possibly using more then the allocated AUMs. Seems really counter-productive since he has the most to gain from a range maintenance fire in that range unit and this is at least the second time that fire has been cancelled for the dame reason.

[silvercreek20]

Well if you are going to hammer on the ranchers and farmers , then we might as well hit the loggers , then the miners and everyone else that takes a shot at the land we call B.C.

When you are all done you will have taken most of the back bone out of b.c.'s core economic structure. People saying they want to shoot these cattle??? Are you serious, you think if they are not out on time that gives you the right to whack em? Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to bring em down when you are supposed too? I will tell you its virtually impossible.The winter loss of just a handful of these cattle could be devestational to a small family ranch depending on these animals to turn any kind of a profit in these hard cattle times. With some ranching in my background I tell you that if you were to jot down the brand off the animal (it's where abouts) and contact the rancher, he would be greatly appreciative and that would be an awesome lead in for a few questions on hunting his land.

[frenchbar]

Well if you are going to hammer on the ranchers and farmers , then we might as well hit the loggers , then the miners and everyone else that takes a shot at the land we call B.C.

When you are all done you will have taken most of the back bone out of b.c.'s core economic structure. People saying they want to shoot these cattle??? Are you serious, you think if they are not out on time that gives you the right to whack em? Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to bring em down when you are supposed too? I will tell you its virtually impossible.The winter loss of just a handful of these cattle could be devestational to a small family ranch depending on these animals to turn any kind of a profit in these hard cattle times. With some ranching in my background I tell you that if you were to jot down the brand off the animal (it's where abouts) and contact the rancher, he would be greatly appreciative and that would be an awesome lead in for a few questions on hunting his land.
Well said!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Well if you are going to hammer on the ranchers and farmers , then we might as well hit the loggers , then the miners and everyone else that takes a shot at the land we call B.C.

When you are all done you will have taken most of the back bone out of b.c.'s core economic structure. People saying they want to shoot these cattle??? Are you serious, you think if they are not out on time that gives you the right to whack em? Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to bring em down when you are supposed too? I will tell you its virtually impossible.The winter loss of just a handful of these cattle could be devestational to a small family ranch depending on these animals to turn any kind of a profit in these hard cattle times. With some ranching in my background I tell you that if you were to jot down the brand off the animal (it's where abouts) and contact the rancher, he would be greatly appreciative and that would be an awesome lead in for a few questions on hunting his land.

It would sure help make it easier to contact the owners of the cattle if they had contact info at the different cattleguards on the ranges.

SSS

[Devilbear]

I will make ANY comments concerning ANY commercial OR recreational activities on BC Crown Land that I consider appropriate and whenever I choose to do so.

I have SEEN the destruction caused by ranching, logging and mining and I have zero sympathy for ANY individual or family involved in any of these activities where environmental damage is concerned, just as I do not for poachers, suburbanites who dump anti-freeze, paint or pesticides into storm drains or fish hogs who exceed their limits.

I do not give a shit if some rancher goes broke or a logger cannot meet the payments on his skidder; I expect that these people will meet environmental guidelines consistently and if they fail, well, tough shit, get a job sweeping the local beerparlour.

Commercial enterprise is NO excuse for avoidance or flouting of environmental or social responsibility and the archaic excuse that it is should have gone out with corsets and buggywhips.

[Gilmore]

I will make ANY comments concerning ANY commercial OR recreational activities on BC Crown Land that I consider appropriate and whenever I choose to do so.

I have SEEN the destruction caused by ranching, logging and mining and I have zero sympathy for ANY individual or family involved in any of these activities where environmental damage is concerned, just as I do not for poachers, suburbanites who dump anti-freeze, paint or pesticides into storm drains or fish hogs who exceed their limits.

I do not give a shit if some rancher goes broke or a logger cannot meet the payments on his skidder; I expect that these people will meet environmental guidelines consistently and if they fail, well, tough shit, get a job sweeping the local beerparlour.

Commercial enterprise is NO excuse for avoidance or flouting of environmental or social responsibility and the archaic excuse that it is should have gone out with corsets and buggywhips.


Wow...somebodys shit don't stink.

[rocksteady]

[quote=silvercreek20;552142]Well if you are going to hammer on the ranchers and farmers , then we might as well hit the loggers , then the miners and everyone else that takes a shot at the land we call B.C.

quote]


In MOST cases, logging (harvesting) etc creates forage for the animals.....

Mining, well I have to admit they have come a long, long way with their "rehab" of sites, for example the Elk Valley Coal operations have created some great habitat and its pretty easy to see that the animals appreciate it...There are a lot of critters inhabiting the mines now, not only for prtoection from hunters, but also for habitat...

Wildfires create habitat.....and forage...

Harvesting creates habitat and forage....

Mining eventually creates habitat and forage...

Ranching, if not done properly, removes forage and can destroy habitat...

[silvercreek20]

I will make ANY comments concerning ANY commercial OR recreational activities on BC Crown Land that I consider appropriate and whenever I choose to do so.

I have SEEN the destruction caused by ranching, logging and mining and I have zero sympathy for ANY individual or family involved in any of these activities where environmental damage is concerned, just as I do not for poachers, suburbanites who dump anti-freeze, paint or pesticides into storm drains or fish hogs who exceed their limits.

I do not give a shit if some rancher goes broke or a logger cannot meet the payments on his skidder; I expect that these people will meet environmental guidelines consistently and if they fail, well, tough shit, get a job sweeping the local beerparlour.

Commercial enterprise is NO excuse for avoidance or flouting of environmental or social responsibility and the archaic excuse that it is should have gone out with corsets and buggywhips.


So you are saying that we should cut cut the power, everyone eat off the land instead of the store, and throw all the toilet paper away that you use to wipe your .....what do you suppose we would do in B.C. without those three big industries? Fishing is also toast....maybe you could run around with a grasshopper net and start some environmental company catching pine beetles. I think i would worry about them WAY before your cattle issue or the guys that spills a bit of anitfreeze.

[TrickleCreekRanch]

...And hunters wonder why they have such a hard time aquiring permission to hunt our ranch lands when they feel so strongly against our livelyhood.

[j270wsm]

I dont want to see anything bad happen to your family or your livelyhood.

The longer your cattle are on the range the less the wildlife has to eat. I too, have seen cattle on the range weeks after they were supposed to be off. Why should I waste my time telling the rancher where I saw his cattle, he probable wouldnt go get them anyhow, but I will call the range officer and tell him if a rancher has his cattle where he shouldnt.

Here in the Elk Valley we have a rancher that is the biggest A-hole you have ever met. He runs his cattle about 20K north of his leased land, locks you out of crown land, threatens and has pulled rifles on people, needless to say he is not very well liked. His whole family is the same, they think that they own the valley, and it is because of people like him that I have no sympathy for farmers that whine about the damage elk cause to their crops. You put your cattle on their land to eat their food, so why cant they come on to your land and eat the crop you are growing for the cattle. As for the farmers having a hard time finding alternative land for their cattle when there is plans for burns, why cant they put them on their own property, after all thats where they should be all the time.

If the ranchers cant follow the rules then too F-ing bad, mabey they shouldnt be allowed to put their cattle out on range land.

[TrickleCreekRanch]

..you just emphasized my point.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I can't speak for the rest of the province but in my area all the trails to the alpine that hunters use where put in by ranchers. Well before the outfitters got up and running. The province does not have the funding to run around and enforce the forestery practices as far as cattle go. As far as being some prick ranchers out there I am sure there are. Hunting in Merrit one year 6 cows had been shot that week not that far from town, I am sure the rancher was happy. It is situations like this that give hunters a bad name. As far as ranchers running guys off with guns we do have laws that will deal with that. This needs to be reported and charges brought on the offending rancher. I never hear hunters complain about cows in the high country around here even though there are stragglers left on the range. The complaints come from the bunny hugging hippies who want the cows off the range so they don't have to run over cow crap on there mountain bikes!!! This is no BS, this actually happened.

[6616]

Ranchers are not all bad, cows are not all bad either. Some hunters are dorks too and so it follows with all other walks of life. Here in the EK ranchers and hunters have partnered with MOFR in the eco-system restoration program and it's proven to be a very productive relationship and has successfully improved nearly 25,000 Ha of Crown land where grazing range and wildlife winter range overlap.

There are 40,000 Ha of rural private land in the EK much of which belongs to ranchers. As long as the ranches stay viable this land (except the 12,000 Ha that has wildlife exclusion fences) will stay available to support wildlife and wild spaces. If/When the ranches become non-viable much of that land could end up being developed into sub-divisions or small ranchettes which reduce it's value to wildlife dramatically.

Exploitation of resources on Crown Land is nothing new in BC. Forest companies and mining companies have been doing it for decades, cattle grazing is no different. We cannot adopt a standard of allowing, or not allowing cattle grazing on Crown Land based on what private property a citizen owns any more then we could allow or not allow free mining, claim staking, forestry, berry picking, commercial backcountry recreation, guide-outfitting, etc, based on what private interests a party holds.

Grazing on Crown Land is not a free-for-all. Sure, there is the odd rancher who is out of compliance with range use plans, but this is a small minority. Waldo Stockbreeders Association did a study a few years back which indicated it costs a rancher about $20.00 an AUM to graze on Crown Land when all costs are considered. AUM fees are modest but that is far from being the only cost involved. As citizens, ranchers have as much right as any other citizen to apply for tenures to exploit Crown Land resources.

So, start rippin' and tearin' guys...!

[TrickleCreekRanch]

You sound like the Ek rancher j270wsm was referring to.
Your not doing yourself or ranch any justice with your one line remarks.
__________________



Actually not even remotely close. Our family hunts, are members of the BCWF as well as other outdoor recreational clubs and organizations. We support our local buisnesses by purchasing tags, equipment and supplies just as you do. We are deffinitely PRO HUNTING. Our 9 year old daughter can not wait until next year when she can shoot a bull off the ranch of her own. We run a commercial beef cow/calf operation as well as a purebred program. Our crown range grazing lease is vital to the operation of the ranch, especially durring these tough economic times when the price to produce a calf exceeds the price the calves bring at auction at years end. We actively manage our range to prevent over grazing in accordance with the current range act and grazing schedule issued at the beginning of each calendar year. We are also very active in land stewardship practices including the Environmental Farm Plan our ranch has worked so hard to establish. There are alot of factors that most of you are not aware of when it comes to crown grazing. Our range is 124,000 acres of steep hillsides, box canyons,heavy timber open meadows and some alpine. Until you have actually been involved in locating some missing strays in an area that large your view and opinion is narrowly skewed. We make every effort to get the cattle off the range in compliance with our grazing schedule. Some years when cold weather and snow do not come early enough we hire a small engine plane to locate from air. Its not cheap. As far as cattle grazing off to much forage in the high country causing elk to migrate to the valley bottoms in the fall/winter is not exactly the reason either. The last couple years due to ranchers cutting back herd numbers and shutting operations down, our range is supporting less than 15% of the cattle the range permits. The grass this year was abundant...and still is today. Still the elk migrate down off the high country in early September for the rut.They will next year and the year after that as well regardless of the feed situation in the high country.It is true that over time cattle using trails on the range cause erosion and various run off problems but believe me...by far the most common problem on our range with soil disturbance and erosion is caused by atv's and dirtbikes. It only takes one quad a single trip up a grassland slope to cause permanent damage. And yes we do own atv's, but we are very concious in where we use them and how.

And for the record in regards to another post about cattle being shot up, we have had 3 purebred cows shot and killed by small calibre rifles this year so far. All of them at home on private land. It makes it a little tough to give permission to access our ranchland when these sorts of acts are taking place all too often.

[Devilbear]

I can't speak for the rest of the province but in my area all the trails to the alpine that hunters use where put in by ranchers. Well before the outfitters got up and running. The province does not have the funding to run around and enforce the forestery practices as far as cattle go. As far as being some prick ranchers out there I am sure there are. Hunting in Merrit one year 6 cows had been shot that week not that far from town, I am sure the rancher was happy. It is situations like this that give hunters a bad name. As far as ranchers running guys off with guns we do have laws that will deal with that. This needs to be reported and charges brought on the offending rancher. I never hear hunters complain about cows in the high country around here even though there are stragglers left on the range. The complaints come from the bunny hugging hippies who want the cows off the range so they don't have to run over cow crap on there mountain bikes!!! This is no BS, this actually happened.

The earliest trails still in use in B.C., were not established by ranchers, rather by hunters and trappers and prospectors. This is not mere anecdotal and biased commentary, as with so much on this thread, it is archaeologically and historically verifiable fact.

I also am getting REALLY TIRED of the constant slurs against "environmentalists" that are posted here. I happen to BE one, have a great deal of bush experience and find the comments about "leaf lickers", "tree huggers", "bunnyhuggers" to be NO different that calling someone a ethnic slur. WHY are SOME personal comments allowed here, such as derogatory comments on age and environmentalism, yet, not others?

Everyone in BC SHOULD be considered equal and treated accordingly; there ARE azzhole ranchers and folks like "Tricklecreek", who strikes me as a responsible, decent and caring guy. There ARE slob hunters and guides who cheat both their clients and residents and also GOOD guides and good hunters, et cetera, ad nauseum.

We hunters NEED an alliance with the environmentalists and it IS very possible; there are a few ultra-extremists, but, most I know are NOT "anti-hunting" and they number FAR more than we do.....the conclusion should be obvious.

We really need to work together and I would ALWAYS report any sob I saw shooting a cow, just as I would not allow a rancher to order me around on Crown Land. In over 50 years of active BC outdoors experience, I have had fewer than five unpleasant encounters with ANYONE and while I would prefer no cows on Crown range, I realize that we all have to compromise.

The rancher in the Elk should be reported to the RCMP EVERYTIME he so much as grunts at a legal resident and he should be made aware that this will happen. "Tough guys", IME, act that way, because they know they can get away with it; they are usually very insecure and fearful and simply require a firm, polite and legal approach........



OR, Gatehouse with his mighty spear!!!!!! ;)

[Nooker77]

:they are private property and you would be charged with theft if you shoot them.

Are you friggin kidding me...did I miss that in the last hunting regs? How much for a black angus tag....give your head a shake...they are OWNED by a rancher/farmer...theft is theft!! How would you feel if someone seen your dog in his yard and shot them just cause you didnt like the time of year they where in your yard!! :evil:

[frenchbar]

The cattle will be roaming the free range long after we are all long gone from this world !!!get over it folks..

[j270wsm]

TrickleCreekRanch

If you truly practice ranching the way you described, then you are a rare breed of rancher, in my experiences most ranchers are A-Holes and dont care about anything but their cattle.
The rancher I described is the type of guy that will and does run his cattle where he isnt supposed to, but has tried to turn my friends for 4wheeling below the high water mark, which we are allowed to do-as told by forest service bc. He also owns land that the elk have used for winter range for ever, and 3yrs ago he put up a 7' 10,000volt fence, since then I have seen atleast 10 elk dead in his fence. I cant even begin to count the number of deer and elk that have some how got in side the fence and have spent hours running back and forth trying to get out.
Every year this rancher gets his A** handed to him by someone that wasnt putting up with his SH*T anylonger, he has had the cops called numerous times and nothing seems to happen.
One time I was at the local gas station and he pulled up while I was talking with a cop that I knew, the rancher grabbed me be my coat and starting telling the cop that I was doing this and that while up the valley and that If he catches me again he will kick my A**. I started to laugh and told him to get bent, the cop told him that he was making a note and if he did make good on his threat he would end up in jail. For the record the guy accused me of doing stuff that I wasnt involved with, but I do know who did it, as I stated before the guy thinks his family owns the valley. The worst part is he gives all ranchers a REALLY bad name.

Nooker77

I think that you read the post wrong, you said the same thing that Riflebuilder said.

[KodiakHntr]

TrickleCreekRanch

and 3yrs ago he put up a 7' 10,000volt fence, since then I have seen atleast 10 elk dead in his fence. I cant even begin to count the number of deer and elk that have some how got in side the fence and have spent hours running back and forth trying to get out.


10 000 volts? I'm gonna hafta call BS on that one...Someones been watching too many movies.

Electric fences are typically single strand charged, with maybe one or two other lines strung for visual deterrent.

How did he get permission to hardwire that into a powerline? Houses run 220 volts...Not to mention the liability for forest fires if a tree fell on the line, or some leaf licker wandered up to it by accident...

[j270wsm]

10 000 volts? I'm gonna hafta call BS on that one...Someones been watching too many movies.

Electric fences are typically single strand charged, with maybe one or two other lines strung for visual deterrent.

How did he get permission to hardwire that into a powerline? Houses run 220 volts...Not to mention the liability for forest fires if a tree fell on the line, or some leaf licker wandered up to it by accident...

Next time I drive past I will double check. I am pretty sure that the little yellow sign on the fence says 10,000volts. just to clarify,I assume that the elk died from being caught in the fence, not from the eletric shock.
The town I live in put a fence around the old dump site to keep bears out and that fence was 5,000 volts.

[sawmill]

10 000 volts? I'm gonna hafta call BS on that one...Someones been watching too many movies.

Electric fences are typically single strand charged, with maybe one or two other lines strung for visual deterrent.

How did he get permission to hardwire that into a powerline? Houses run 220 volts...Not to mention the liability for forest fires if a tree fell on the line, or some leaf licker wandered up to it by accident...
Yup I`m with you on that one,grew up on a ranch in Smithers BC,any E fence we had was run off a 12 volt truck battery.Just enough to stop the leaners(cows and horses who hang off the fence till it breaks)
BUT 3 bar ranch in Kimberley runs a shitload of cattle in prime elk and deer country and it does impact their natural range.I don`t like seeing 45 cows where I used to see elk or deer.I also see a lot of month old calves in September which leads me to believe those people do not give a shit about their stock,it`s just a tax write off to them.A shipped brood cow is worth 600$....a dead in the bush cow is worth 2000$ from insurance.I have seen Magnifigant Pure Bred Angus bulls worth around 8 to 10 thousand dollars wandering up the St Mary`s road in November,starving and looking for home.We used to free range our cattle too but we knew every one and we would get them all home safe no matter what it took.

[TrickleCreekRanch]

j270wsm


I think if you looked into it a little deeper with an open mind, you would find that ranching and ranchers are progressing with modern times and issues just the same as any other buisness or industry of today. To catagorize ranchers in general as A holes is a bit over the top. Being a rancher and Hunter/Outdoorsmen I can see points from both sides of the fence. Our ranch happens to be in a prime area for whitetails and elk. It is a piece of property that most anyone would like the oppotunity to hunt. The entire ranch is posted no hunting without written permission by owner. Clear and simple. We hunt the ranch ourselves as do some of our close friends ....and....I also give out permission from time to time for hunters that are having a hard time filling their LEH type tags as long as I have a good feeling they will be responsible with their actions while on and around the ranch. We have children,hired help, and animals throughout the property at any given time. I have to say I have not had a problem with anyone we have ACTUALLY given permission to. Most are curtious and respectful of our operations and are welcome back. Many of them have become friends of ours....The problem is there seems to be an increasing amount of people that do not believe in respecting someone elses property. We have gates that are left open. Fences cut. Atv's ripping up our posted property. People driving over irrigation pipes while they sneak through a feild to retrieve an animal they shot on our posted land.We had 2 guys shoot a buck from the road last year...the buck was between them and our picture window in our house not more than 150 yds away!!!!!....2 weeks ago we had 3 purebred, bred cows shot with small calibre and killed them....value....$3500-$4500 each...not counting their calves that would potentially bring $5,000 each if they were bull calves....I guess what Im trying to say is there are 2 sides to every story and situation.