bison rifles

[moose hunter]

anyone here experiance bison hunting what kind of rifles do you recogmend i dont think that 30-06 will do it is that true

[ex bc guide]

moose hunter just search the fourum,this topic has be brought up a couple times,but I do beleive that one of them is a locked thread though,
Mike

[swamper]

I fail to see why you would think that a 30-06 is not enough gun to hunt bison. You most likely will not be shooting long range, and a good hand load with 190 or 200 grain bullets will easily drop a bison. The main thing you have to remember when choosing your shot on one is that the vitals are in the lower 1/3 of the body, it is very deceptive because of the size of the hump. The 06 is a highly under rated gun. So many shooters out there are touting the "bigger is better" thing that people are actually starting to believe that bunk. A well placed shot with an 06 will do an affective job on any big game animal on this continent.

Just my humble opinion.

[BC4Bowhunter]

I agree with Swamper, 30 06 is going to take down a bison just as well as any magnum. One of my buddies has taken a bison, but with 338 win mag and the reason he used that caliber is because the outfitter recommended it. He believed his 06 would have done the job just fine. I even know a fellow that killed a bison with a 55lb compound bow.

[Iron-Head]

Its all about shot placement,an odd six would and will kill anything on this continent and i would argue that it would kill anything on this earth.
I did a search on elephanth hunting and a guide was doing a small game hunt in africa and was charged by a elephant and witht the proper shot placement he killed it with his .22 ?! So i would think the 30-06 is plenty of gun for a bison.

[lakelander]

I seriously doubt that a .22 would kill an elephant especially a charging one. Consider the thickness of the hide and density of the bone. It would be practically impossible to penetrate the skull for a head kill. A charging elephant will not present the ideal position for a heart shot. Forget a lung shot with a .22. A little pin prick in its massive lung would not even take the wind out of the beast.

.22 no way on an elephant. I think it must have been an ostrich that looked like an elephant.:razz:

A 30.06 would drop a bison without any problem. Just ensure that you use either a bear claw or accubond bullets for deep penetration.

[youngfellla]

600 Nitro Express with 900 grain soft-points.:twisted:

hehe

Any '06 with a stout 180 or 200 grain load will easily do the job. Like Swamper said the vitals are low, many people shoot too high for a lung or heart shot, but not high enough to break the spine, and the bullet simply breaks a couple ribs and exits with very little damage. Doesn't matter how big your rifle is if you can't place your shots. My 2 bits.

[Brambles]

From the hunting synopsis
ammunition to hunt bison must be constructed with
a 175 grain or larger bullet, which retains 2,712 joules
(2,000 ft lbs) or more energy at 100 m.

So basically YES, you would have no trouble legally shooting a bison with a 30-06.

[CanuckShooter]

I seriously doubt that a .22 would kill an elephant especially a charging one. Consider the thickness of the hide and density of the bone. It would be practically impossible to penetrate the skull for a head kill. A charging elephant will not present the ideal position for a heart shot. Forget a lung shot with a .22. A little pin prick in its massive lung would not even take the wind out of the beast.

.22 no way on an elephant. I think it must have been an ostrich that looked like an elephant.:razz:

A 30.06 would drop a bison without any problem. Just ensure that you use either a bear claw or accubond bullets for deep penetration.

One of the largest grizz bears ever killed was shot with a 22....through the roof of the mouth I think....but your probably correct not an elephant too much mass.

[Iron-Head]

just something i read:wink:

[bigwhiteys]

In Symons Defense...

I actually read that article online not too long ago. A PH (Professional Hunter) in Africa apparently did bring down an elephant with a .22 LR. Far fetched I know but I think stranger things have probably happened.

If I can find that article again I'll post a link. I was reading up on elephant and african hunting a few weeks ago when I stumbled across it.

I'll see if I find it.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

PS... 30-06 is more then enough for a buffalo. We took one last year with a .338 and it worked okay :)

[Johnnybear]

I know what the regulations say etc. etc. but aside from that look at what all the bison slaughters used over a century ago all the old bpc rifles and such alot of them where alot less effective than the 06'.

[todbartell]

I'd prefer something along the lines of a 338 or bigger, but the 7mm/30-06 class of cartridges work, especially when loaded with heavy for caliber premium bullets.

[moose hunter]

an elephant with a 22 is well i dont think so my only point im trying to get across is im will take a 300 instead just because i geuss an 0d 6 will do the jonb but the 300 will do a betetr one

[Gateholio]

I owuld have no problem shooting a bison with a 30-06 and a good bullet.

If I got the draw, I woud take my 375 H&H with 300gr Nosler Partitions, or my 300WSM with 168gr X bullets.

Simply because a beastie as big as a bison is clearly in the 375 range...Our bison are larger in size han an African buffalo, although usually not as mean.:razz:

[bochunk2000]

I thought it was 175gr minimum, is there an allowance for the massive kinetic energy from some of these magnums?

[Gateholio]

I thought it was 175gr minimum, is there an allowance for the massive kinetic energy from some of these magnums?

No, you are correct, 175gr minimum is the legal minimum.

However, the regs are too BLANKET

A 165gr X bullet will penetrate WAY more than a 175gr Ballistic tip...

[Schmaus]

My dad shot a buffalo a few years ago with a 30-06 using a 180 grain softpoint made by federal he said the buffalo dropped like it was hit by a train. Also there is some fellow on the accurate reloading forum that has taken a few buffalo with his high power airgun. I'm actually not kidding he has some special made pellet gun and he killed a buff. Anyway don't be silly a buffalo is no match for a 30-06.

[steel_ram]

According to the regs and the bureaucrats in Victoria, a 45-70 blackpowder load is insufficent for bison. Hmmm.

[Kirby]

.22lr through the eye might do the trick on a elephant, not that I would want to try it.
I do however know a gentleman who dropped a charging black bear in its tracks with a single shot cooey .22lr.

As for the '06, definatly, load'er up and go. 180gr Partitions.

Kirby

[lakelander]

Ok that's enough...An elephant with a .22 and now a bison with an air gun. Heck I'm selling my rifles and gonna shoot a nice buck this year with a slingshot.:cool:

[Schmaus]

http://www.bigborebob.com/bobspics/a.jpg

This is the picture of the buff supposedly shot with the airgun. Now just to get it clear to everyone I am not suggesting that you shoot something like this with an airgun but I just thought that this was kind of cool and this was an opportunity to bring it up.

[Kirby]

Holy crap! Talk about feeling under gunned!

Kirby

[mark]

i hunted bison in 96 and i witnessed alot of buff getting wounded, including 1 which took 11 -300. weatherbys until it stopped getting up. my advise is take the biggest gun your comfortable with! there is no substitute for shot placement, but there is no rifle to big either! i shot mine in the head with a 300. mag. called my buds over, walked up and started taking pics of him then he started to get up while i was sitting on him. there tuff!

[moose hunter]

fianly someone that agress with me thanks alot mark ill take the 300 and see how it goes

[todbartell]

I am a firm believer than bullet construction is more important than caliber or impact energy.

A bison may take alot of rounds from a Weatherby loaded with Hornady Interlocks which fail to penetrate the vitals, but a 308 Winchester loaded with an X bullet just might let the air out of a big bull a bit quicker with deeper penetration.

Shot placement is always important as well.

[KMH]

a elephant with 22!!!?:biggrin:
http://www.school-safety.net/ecomimages/38083.jpg

[3kills]

i have actaully read some where about a guy years ago takin a elephant with a .22...i think there actaully might have been a thread on here quite awhile ago about it...

[X-man]

file:///C:/DOCUME~1/JAMIE~1.COB/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif

This is the picture of the buff supposedly shot with the airgun. Now just to get it clear to everyone I am not suggesting that you shoot something like this with an airgun but I just thought that this was kind of cool and this was an opportunity to bring it up.



That looks suspiciously like lung blood dripping out of both nostrils onto the ground!
I have a 2 air guns that shoot 1100-1200fps which I regularly shoot in my basement…My backstop????
Several layers of hanging cloth!


What a load of Bovine Excrement!


You only need to see a Buff caped out once to realize that you better bring a big time penetration bullet like a heavy Partition, Barnes X, or a monster lead slug (45/70).

There is nothing wrong with the a 30-06 properly loaded, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

[Fred]

There is a fellow who visits BOOC who uses an Airgun for hunting. You must understand though, his airguns are not standard fare. Fred

[Elkhound]

I am sure the airgun would work on a bison...........


If you rammed the barrel up it's nose and pulled the trigger.:biggrin:

[moose hunter]

ya i think ill go club one with my airgun aswell i dont think it matter how much fps that airgun has the bullets are tiny

[Schmaus]

Ok so I did a little bit of research on the pic that I posted with the airgun thing since it was causing a bit of comotion.:grin: Check out this website if you still don't believe me:tongue:

http://www.bigborebob.com/

[bruno]

Here is a little air gun history
www.airguns.net/air_boar.html (http://www.airguns.net/air_boar.html)
Bruno

[moose hunter]

O they use rifle bullets well you never said that that would very much be possiable witha couple thousand fps

[PGKris]

You can just borrow my coyote gun. .416 Rigby :mrgreen: :mrgreen: BANG-FLOP!

[moose hunter]

:shock: coyote gun? lol ya ill take it hahaha

[Postal]

I've read similar stories about hunters dropping elephants with a .22. I seriously dought however that any of them were charging. From what I've read the only way to drop a elephant with a .22 is to place a shot just behind the ear. There isn't any protection there to the brain, hence it tends to fall down :) I can't remember the hunters name, but he was mentioned in a Peter Chapstick book called "death in the tall grass." I highly recommend it as a great read if you're at all interested in any big game stories. Apparently there was a hunter back quite a ways who was famous for dropping big bull elephants with a .22 and made quite a name for himself with the above trick.


I seriously doubt that a .22 would kill an elephant especially a charging one. Consider the thickness of the hide and density of the bone. It would be practically impossible to penetrate the skull for a head kill. A charging elephant will not present the ideal position for a heart shot. Forget a lung shot with a .22. A little pin prick in its massive lung would not even take the wind out of the beast.

.22 no way on an elephant. I think it must have been an ostrich that looked like an elephant.:razz:

A 30.06 would drop a bison without any problem. Just ensure that you use either a bear claw or accubond bullets for deep penetration.

[alremkin]

Ok my $0.02 on this is that buffalo calibers start at 338 and go up from there.

[cowboy-up69]

I think its safe to say that if a bow can kill a bison, a 30.06 would do a damn fine job too..

[Radar]

I just got back from a Bison Hunt and I used my .308 with 180 grain Hornady SST, it dropped it no problem.

[Bison]

Well I did my Bison hunt in '96, at just over 100 yds, used my .300WinMag with a 200gr Premium Safari. Went between the ribs on the right side, took out the heart and lodged against the hide on the left side. Never touched a bone. The bullet did not bruse the hide on the left side.
I can only imagine what would of happened if it had hit bone on the right side on the way in. Granted I was rather fortunate (lucky), I suspect that it would have probably still done fatal damage if I had hit a rib going in. I'm a good shot, spend lots of time at the range; knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't go with anything less than a .338 Mag unless I didn't care how many shots it too to put the animal down.
Go big or go home I figure.

[gary mok]

Yes,I 100 % agree that 30-06 can drop bison down,cause one of my friends who tried it.;)
I fail to see why you would think that a 30-06 is not enough gun to hunt bison. You most likely will not be shooting long range, and a good hand load with 190 or 200 grain bullets will easily drop a bison. The main thing you have to remember when choosing your shot on one is that the vitals are in the lower 1/3 of the body, it is very deceptive because of the size of the hump. The 06 is a highly under rated gun. So many shooters out there are touting the "bigger is better" thing that people are actually starting to believe that bunk. A well placed shot with an 06 will do an affective job on any big game animal on this continent.

Just my humble opinion.

[Bison]

I watched some people try it too. Not a pretty sight. Watch out for people with a theory on how things might be.:(

[CanuckShooter]

I just got back from a Bison Hunt and I used my .308 with 180 grain Hornady SST, it dropped it no problem.

A .308 on bison??or just bsssin....call me sticky but I don't think a .308 meets the legal requirments for a bison rifle???

[ratherbefishin]

How many hundreds of thousands of bison were killed with 50 calibre black powder rifles,then later by 45-70's?

[coaster]

I believe it was Karamojo Bell that shot the eliphant with a .22. He was an ivory hunter at the turn of the century "1900 ". He placed the shot behind the ear..

[Ltbullken]

The BC hunting regs require one to be able to deliver a minimum ft-pound requirement on target for bison. Does the .308 with 180 grn bullet meet that requirement? :confused:

[Bison]

Elephant and a .22, I'm not sure how this fits in this particular conversation. I know of a person who has killed a Bison with a Mac Truck but I'm not sure how relevant that is either.

I have been on two Bison hunts out of Pink Mountain, I have not seen anyone with a .30-06 or a .308, nor probably a .22.

[ratherbefishin]

Old Joe Gibault[of the BC Fish and Game dept] once told me when I said my 6.5X55 was ''too small'' for moose,that if I took one careful shot behind the shoulder with the 160 gr bullet, then sat tight for 20 minutes,my bull would more than likely we down and dead within 50 yards .He wasn;t a big fan of magnums that kicked so hard the average guy would flinch-he said use a rifle you are comfortable shooting with and could shoot accurately.

[Marc]

I've been checking over the balistics of the 308 using a 180 gr bullet and it's got lots of energy out past 200 yards to hunt a Bison. This bullet combination has over 2000 f/lbs of energy at 200 yards!

[ruger#1]

you are so right there ratherbefishing, dont take a rifle you are scared to shoot, take one that is legal to use for the game you are going to hunt, and one that you shoot well. 3006 find some books that jack occoner wrote and you will see on his african safaris, to back up his magnum rifles he used a 270 and a 7x57 mauser. he also shot and killed elephants with his 7x57 mauser with 175grn bullits. always remember to place your shots in the kill zones.

[Bison]

In theory you are mostly correct. In reality a Bison is a HUGE animal. My brother in law loves his 7mm Mag. We always have to go and find his Moose after he shoots it. It is always an adventure. Fortunately a Moose is relatively small, you don't want a wounded Bison you have to track down and then man handle out of the bush from the awkward spot it chooses to die in. Not everyone is a dead eye dick all the time, other than in a book.

Save your self some misery, if you can't handle a large magnum have someone along who can, as a backup.

[john-brennan]

If you own a larger rifle than a 30-06 then use it otherwise use 180-200gr bullets and make a good shot and it will all be over.

[Bison]

Maybe .

[Fred]

Bison, that 7mm mag of your friends might be zipping through a moose so quick that it isn't doing all of the damage that it is capable of. I'd almost be willing to bet that a different bullet might serve him better.
I watched Ex and a rancher while they smacked one young bull 4 times with a 340Wby and a 338 WM and it wasn't until Ex's second 340 round that the chase was done. Man, you should have seen the body bits flying out the off side of that critter! :eek:
If one studies terminal ballistics then one gets an appreciation for what any given cartridge is capable of. Fred

[Ltbullken]

BC Hunting Regs state: "ammunition to hunt bison must be constructed with a 175 grain or larger bullet, which retains 2,712 joules (2,000 ft lbs) or more energy at 100 m."

[ratherbefishin]

correct me if I am wrong,but it seems to me that these large animals have huge amounts of blood ,and in order to put one down,that blood supply must be interrupted from getting to the brain, so a heart lung shot which causes the massive hemmoraging that results in the animal losing consciousness,is going to take at least several minutes.I have never shot a bison,but my neighbour did,and he shot it with a 338 about 60 yards away,and according to him ,he put the first shot right behind the shoulder-with no appearant effect, so he shot again,same place[both shots hit the top of the heart] The bison continued grazing, wandered off about 50 ft, lay down, gave a cough,and rolled over dead.He said it was very undramatic- no knock down, or even any sign he had even made the hit,although either shot would have killed it,he concluded had he only fired once,the results would have been pretty much the same.Again-this is whathe told me-not my opinion or experiance

[Fred]

Bison aren't constructed like other ungulates. Well sort of? The internal organs are,IIRC, a bit lower than one would expect and the spine has a definite downward curve to it.
The rancher that Ex and I delt with likes to get a Buffs attention, wait until it is facing him then smack it in the forehead with his 338. They drop like someone just pulled their plug! Fred

[mark]

you guys are all right! i got one in 96! smack in the forehead and all over! i watched guys lung shooting them over and over and youd think they missed every time! there was blood trails going in every direction up there. a total gong show!

[todbartell]

alot of guys who dismiss the use of 7mm & 30 calibers dont know what these cartridges can do when loaded with todays super premium bullets

Id rather hunt bison with a 416 over anything else, but I wouldnt sit at home just because I only had a 7-08 Rem! Id load some 160 gr, triple shock Xs and make my shot count.

Id bet that a 30-06 with a 200 gr. triple shock X would dig just as deep, if not deeper than a 338 with 250 noslers! :oops:

[The 'Hummer']

Most likely the #1 factor for me would be shot placement. In theory, with precise shot placement, virtually any calibre or projectile would do the job. The technology of bullet construction has come a long way in the last few years and as a result, the capeabilities of some of the smaller calibres has been elevated considerably. For me, the #2 consideration would be the likelyhood of a less than perfect shot opportunity. You're lucky enough to be successful and get a draw once every 'X' number of years, so you may have to settle for the best 'possible' shot. With that in mind, I would prefer something big, not necessarily a 'fast mover' but something that would penetrate almost the length of the animal and be capeable of busting a lot of bone.:idea: Putting the shoe on the other foot, with my bow, I have to wait for the perfect or almost perfect shot.:smile:

[willyqbc]

I can't believe we are still hashing out threads like this one.....the american west was settled by folks killing buff with 30-30's for god sake's,....and before that the indians were doing it with handmade bows, or lances. so why are we worried that a 30.06 won't do the job?? if it doesn't do the job its because you haven't done yours....simple as that.

Just my opinion
Chris

[sealevel]

There is a lot of differance shooting a buff from a herd of 2000 in1875 with a 45-70 loaded with black powder then a hunt to pink mountain in 2006. Now the only shot you might get is a poor shot at a bad angle i am a 30-06 fan but if i got a draw and a choice between a 338 and a 30-06 i would take the 338 every time. Our the biggest i can handle.

[todbartell]

and that is a smart choice

biggest gun you can handle well.

[The 'Hummer']

I can't believe we are still hashing out threads like this one.....the american west was settled by folks killing buff with 30-30's for god sake's,....and before that the indians were doing it with handmade bows, or lances. so why are we worried that a 30.06 won't do the job?? if it doesn't do the job its because you haven't done yours....simple as that.

Just my opinion
Chris

I thought that was one of the benefits of forums such as this, to inquire and see input from others.:idea: Involvement isn't mandatory. You don't have to get involved in the 'hashing out'.
How many 'folks' in the 'American West' lost buff's and other game, when using their 30-30's? :?: And how many native North American's lost buff's when using their 'sharp pointy things'?:?: I have a 30.06 and I'm not saying it couldn't do the job. I just think, given the choice, there others that could it more reliably.

[Ltbullken]

Acute hydrodynamic shock to the smartie! That's the way to drop a 3000 cow!

[Bison]

If you get a LEH draw for a Bison they will give you some guidance on the expected minimum performance of the rifle you choose to use. They also provide some guidance on where the heck to place your shot. I don't recall the suggestion to shoot them in the head. Having skinned it out it would be right up there with shooting a Grizzly in the head, actually shooting the Grizz in the head would likely have a far worse immediate result!

[Elkhound]

Besides, Grizz or Bison, I want to keep those skulls. Not shatter them