Leh Bison Poachers

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

HI,HBC HUNTERS, today was a very interesting day up here in the north! i run a motel where hunters stay for there leh bison draws and this morning was the opening day of the nov 5-19 hunt. and one group has been here for 3 days scouting and the other has been 1 day.

so this morning group B went out and got to the area nice and Early then had group A pass them by going in the ditch like a bat out of hell to get around them...group B was pissed off as you can imagine! so they went off another way,so later in the morning they went into they area where group A went and found a frozen gut pile and frozen quartered pieces of hide!! so long story short group A shot there bison the night before!!!

how to prove it is my question!! help!!!!:evil:

[Ddog]

no witnesses ,,no charges,,one word against another, who do you believe? well obvious the animal may have been shot the night before but once called in and the CO shows would it have been frozen by then if it was shot in the morning?
i wish i could help but this is a hard one even if its the truth.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

yeah temperatures are mild -5 and warms up to -1 so gut piles don't freeze in 2 1/2 hours... this pissed me off!!

[M.Dean]

How can a man go home with a animal that he had to poach and then make up a bullshit story to tell all his family and friends about how he bagged it legally??? I'd phone the CO's and explain what happened, maybe after they talk to all involved they can get the truth out!

[partner]

I seen the same thing happen in Zone B 2 years ago. They shot a buffalo the day before the season started. Mike from Sikanni River Outfitters questioned the their tag, not only was it a day before it was for zone A.
They knew the jig was up, left in a hurry after they got it loaded. Only made it out about 3 miles.The road was frozen after dark they slid off a corner and into the creek.
Co's found them the next morning, the truck, camper, quad, snowmobiles and the trailer they were in all in the creek. It was an expensive mistake.

[The Hermit]

Call Jack Bauer!!!

[lb_billy]

Your witnesses are the other group. Leave the investigation to the CO, just provide him with the info you have... If it came down to court proceeding, all evidence, such as motel check out time, will come into account. How can they account for their time? Did anyone hear a shot that morning? Did the groups head out to the same general area at the same time?

I don't know much about guts and temps, but I can't see how a warm gut pile can be frozen, or even partially frozen, within a few hours @ -1 to -5...

Leave it to the CO to prove...

Let us know what happens

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

who is jack bauer??

[Kye]

who is jack bauer??

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/jackbauer.jpg

[Allen50]

tell a co and he will figger it out,, and get these kind of hunters out of the woods,, its poacheing,

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

ya not natives for sure, and the season has been closed for 5 days.. so nothing should be fresh and frozen... if you know what i mean, and iam a third party relaying the story and group B did not call the co's so here iam pissed off.. there are some other hunters that are aware of this to so hopefully the can do the right thing and i can back them up?

[jethrobuddy]

The co's just use meat temp as a guide. Meat cools down at a certain rate. They can put the pressure on the hunters. This is not a science, but it gives a rough idea of time of death. They do it around here.

[boxhitch]

And you come to the intraweb for advice on how to deal with law breakers ????????

[3kills]

only thing u can and should do is call the co's

[1/2 slam]

only thing u can and should do is call the co's

What he said.............

[hunter1947]

If me I would call up the local CO and tell them the story of what had happened thats about the only thing you could do.

[hunter1947]

X2 .. if all else fails .. blame the natives ,,, "hey look .. thers a native .. it was him !!.. never could be a white boy .. dont you get tires of your bigotry


I never point fingers till there caught and have been convicted ,a poacher can be a white person ,black ,native ,etc they come in all different colors http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[snowhunter]

Please, please moderate yourself gentlemen.

To often I read, in nasty and derogatory terms, in these otherwise fine pages, about Natives who have inhabitated these parts of the world for over 15000 years.

This is simply not accetable to use these fine pages for stirring up racial hatred towards Natives, or any other minority.

If this does not stop, these pages will be closed permanently, and the perpetrators brougt before justice, for illegal use of the internet to spred racial hatred towards Natives.

The internet use to spred racial hatred is a criminal offence in Canada and most countries in the world.

We have to police ourself against these ******ed racist, who wants to use fine pages to spread their own racist, political agenda, before a puplic outcry against us as hunters and gun owners, forces a closure of these fine pages.

To covertly to use these fine pages of hunting and guns use, for spreading racisme against any minority, tells rest of the canadians and the world, that canadian gun owners are a bunch of insane morons, that needs to be controlled through even more gun laws.

Let work together and find out who these racist morons are, and then sue them for everything they own, and also tell their their employer and customers who they are, and let them make up if they want to employ or buy from them.

Please PM me about their identities.

[Islandbowhunter]

I would say start a new thread but then I would just have to lock that one in about 6 posts.


I am trying to educate myself on the matter, not stir the pot. Anybody with valid information or insight (not speculation) please reply.

[FLHTCUI]

How can a man go home with a animal that he had to poach and then make up a bullshit story to tell all his family and friends about how he bagged it legally??? I'd phone the CO's and explain what happened, maybe after they talk to all involved they can get the truth out!
Mr. Dean, the guy prolly has fine upstanding :eek: citizens like themselves as friends.
Call the Co's and pass the info along, they will do thier best to investigate
and ask some very difficult questions to the party who shot the animal.
Keep us posted on the events, and also be careful how you get yourself involved in this.
Rob

[bridger]

[quote=Islandbowhunter;546313]Going out on a limb...can we start an open dialogue on this?


. Does that mean that aboriginal hunters must follow the published hunting regulations or not?


hunting regs ie open seasons, horn restrictions, sex of species, legal shooting hours, bag limits generally do not apply to natives.

[bigwhiteys]

hunting regs ie open seasons, horn restrictions, sex of species, legal shooting hours, bag limits generally do not apply to natives.

I have family whom are Native and that isn't the case as I understand it. They must be in their traditional territory or have permission from the resident band which isn't always easy to get. This year they went all the way to Alberta to hunt as apparently the laws were more lax.

Carl

[30-06]

I have family whom are Native and that isn't the case as I understand it. They must be in their traditional territory or have permission from the resident band which isn't always easy to get. This year they went all the way to Alberta to hunt as apparently the laws were more lax.

Carl

thats bang on.
we hunt with a native every year. and he was saying he can shoot everything he wishes on his own grounds (Expect Protected Animals to The Area) which happened to be caribou.
he doesn't generally shoot anything when were on his land he follows all the regs and put's in for LEH's every year just like the rest of us.

[steel_ram]

it could have been native hunters!

Why is that derogatory? Could have been, and could have been legal under some First Nations Agreement. You guy try too hard some times to be anti-racial that your quite the opposite.

Hunting game the evening before opening day is practised a lot more than we think. I've had well known members of our hunting community tell me (laughingly) about their groups "unwritten law" about the night before. They are among us, post on this sight and are considered good hunters until they get caught.

[ianwuzhere]

Why is that derogatory? Could have been, and could have been legal under some First Nations Agreement. You guy try too hard some times to be anti-racial that your quite the opposite.

Hunting game the evening before opening day is practised a lot more than we think. I've had well known members of our hunting community tell me (laughingly) about their groups "unwritten law" about the night before. They are among us, post on this sight and are considered good hunters until they get caught.

thanx steel ram for seeing it how i do. A friend of mines brother in law is native, and has shot a bison this year near Pink mountain area. sorry no pix, hehe. but my point is if you never seen who did it, how can one jump to conclusions posting thread titles with "bison poachers".
-i was never tryin to "stir the pot" suggesting it may not have been poachers.
-i find it funny how it seems like people are trying to makes something out of nothing.
-u could phone the co's like other people have suggested- they could think the same thing as me-may have been a legal hunt??

-islandbowhunter- theres many natives that can hunt that area any time of the year legally, some bands have treaty 8 status cards also and have a very large traditional area.
-thanx for letting us know what youve heard from someone tho, makes us keep our eyes and ears open for illegal activity!

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

how can it be a legal hunt when it was closed for 5 days and you find a fresh frozen gut pile???? native hunters need a leh don't they?? and iam just relaying this message from the hunters that are staying here! and it is there choice not to call the Co's AND THIS IS A OPEN FORUM IS IT NOT?

[Mik]

You can only do one thing, report them, however, be careful of accusing one of poaching if you were not there.
Food for thought:for instance, how early is early? You can shoot one hr before sunrise, so did group A hear a shot or not? was there snow on the ground? was the bison shot in a valley? near a creek? or on top of a knoll? was it windy? all these factors could potentially "freeze the gut & quartered pieces of hide" THEN, lets think about this, maybe group group B shot it the nite before and split the area after group A passed them so as they did not want to get caught??? and that is why they do not want to report it!

[835]

Yes they do need an LEH or be on their native hunting land

[ianwuzhere]

how can it be a legal hunt when it was closed for 5 days and you find a fresh frozen gut pile???? native hunters need a leh don't they?? and iam just relaying this message from the hunters that are staying here! and it is there choice not to call the Co's AND THIS IS A OPEN FORUM IS IT NOT?

-no they do not need an LEH, its possible it was a legal hunt.

[Krico]

I'm with Mik on this one.

If you didn't see it happen, your accusations are just that - accusations.

If you feel the need to report something, then report what you personally saw.

The rest is just heresay.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

And That Is Why I'am Talking On Hbc And Not To The Co's If It Was Me I Would Of Called The Co's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND GROUP B IS STILL HERE HUNTING!!!!

[Steeleco]

it could have been native hunters!

First off folks, I take this to be a question and not an insinuation.
There is every chance that the frozen gut pile is coincidental to the actions of Group A. The need to degenerate this thread to an Indian berating one is not needed.

Sure there are many flaws with the way folks on both sides of the fence are treated, but this thread WAS and should be about suspected POACHERS.

I for one would call the local CO, tell them your suspicions and have him talk to group A, Most guilty people incriminate themselves!!!

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

THANK YOU , STEELECO.. great way to put it! my sheep hunting partner is native and he dose not buy tags or a license but he follows bag limits and and hunting regulations as well as filling leh tags like the rest of us!!! stand up guy and stand up hunter!!

[Rock Doctor]

thats bang on.
we hunt with a native every year. and he was saying he can shoot everything he wishes on his own grounds (Expect Protected Animals to The Area) which happened to be caribou.
he doesn't generally shoot anything when were on his land he follows all the regs and put's in for LEH's every year just like the rest of us.

I too hunt with "Natives" every yr, the kicker is that if they are hunting AS a native, IE without a licence or tags, in their traditional area, you can not hunt with them, or help them in any way. If they are hunting as a non-native, IE with licence, tags, LEH, you're good to go with them.
This info was given to me by a CO, so take it for what it is...........second hand info.


how can it be a legal hunt when it was closed for 5 days and you find a fresh frozen gut pile???? native hunters need a leh don't they?? and iam just relaying this message from the hunters that are staying here! and it is there choice not to call the Co's AND THIS IS A OPEN FORUM IS IT NOT?

Having lived around here for almost 40yrs, I have noticed that Natives don't seem to need an LEH. They also don't seem to be required to carry the "minimum required firepower" to harvest a Bison.
Just an observation, for what it's worth.


RD

[835]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/regulations/

flip to page 7

[Steeleco]

Lets get back to the topic at hand, POACHING K!!!!

[835]

damn poachers:-D

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

Indians who are residents of BC are not required to obtain any type of hunting license under the wildlife act.. page 7 hunting regs

[partner]

Did anybody see them come back with a buffalo in their truck??

[huntcoop]

Please, please moderate yourself gentlemen.

To often I read, in nasty and derogatory terms, in these otherwise fine pages, about Natives who have inhabitated these parts of the world for over 15000 years.

This is simply not accetable to use these fine pages for stirring up racial hatred towards Natives, or any other minority.

If this does not stop, these pages will be closed permanently, and the perpetrators brougt before justice, for illegal use of the internet to spred racial hatred towards Natives.

The internet use to spred racial hatred is a criminal offence in Canada and most countries in the world.

We have to police ourself against these ******ed racist, who wants to use fine pages to spread their own racist, political agenda, before a puplic outcry against us as hunters and gun owners, forces a closure of these fine pages.

To covertly to use these fine pages of hunting and guns use, for spreading racisme against any minority, tells rest of the canadians and the world, that canadian gun owners are a bunch of insane morons, that needs to be controlled through even more gun laws.

Let work together and find out who these racist morons are, and then sue them for everything they own, and also tell their their employer and customers who they are, and let them make up if they want to employ or buy from them.

Please PM me about their identities.

Are you for real?

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

ya they came back with a stiff cold bison only after a couple of hours

[Blainer]

Are you for real?x 2
Still shaken my head.
Let's sue them for everything they own?

(Quote=Snowhunter)Minding my own and doing my deer hunting, I learned today that I have to wait another year before I can hunt deer again.

Is really true, that we can only harvest a total 3 deer combination between white-tail and blacktail deer ?

Sharp as a tack are we?

[35 Whelen]

Get ahold of the CO's in the area. They have an instrument available that measures electrical current when they pass the probes over different muscle tissue and eyes. The reading will tell them how long ago the animal was shot. It apparently works on the resistance of the dead tissue. There is a formula they can extrapolate the time of death. CALL THEM !!!!

[Gunner]

Please, please moderate yourself gentlemen.

To often I read, in nasty and derogatory terms, in these otherwise fine pages, about Natives who have inhabitated these parts of the world for over 15000 years.

This is simply not accetable to use these fine pages for stirring up racial hatred towards Natives, or any other minority.

If this does not stop, these pages will be closed permanently, and the perpetrators brougt before justice, for illegal use of the internet to spred racial hatred towards Natives.

The internet use to spred racial hatred is a criminal offence in Canada and most countries in the world.

We have to police ourself against these ******ed racist, who wants to use fine pages to spread their own racist, political agenda, before a puplic outcry against us as hunters and gun owners, forces a closure of these fine pages.

To covertly to use these fine pages of hunting and guns use, for spreading racisme against any minority, tells rest of the canadians and the world, that canadian gun owners are a bunch of insane morons, that needs to be controlled through even more gun laws.

Let work together and find out who these racist morons are, and then sue them for everything they own, and also tell their their employer and customers who they are, and let them make up if they want to employ or buy from them.

Please PM me about their identities.I think the Moderators of this Forum do a fine job controlling any racist comments that arise.I doubt that they require any assistance from you. Gunner

[boxhitch]

AND THIS IS A OPEN FORUM IS IT NOT?Sure~~ as long as you play nice and toe the line........

[Aaron Blom]

Call the CO's they can determine time of death by various methods to within an hour. They may also be able to get the "gentlemen" to make an ommision on there own, they are trained for this exact thing. Good luck.

[Bowtime]

I am not one to accuse people unless I witness them in the act. But you start the post with saying this about the gut pile. that you heard from another hunting party.


yeah temperatures are mild -5 and warms up to -1 so gut piles don't freeze in 2 1/2 hours... this pissed me off!![quote]

Then you mention this about the frozen quarters they came back with. so obviously it wasn't Native hunters.

[quote=sheep.elk.moose fanatic;546659] ya they came back with a stiff cold bison only after a couple of hours

You or the second hunting party should have contacted CO's immedietly after seeing the frozen quarters. That puts the animal in their possesion. so if you would have made a call instead of starting this thread we would not be having this discusion and there would be one less poacher in B.C.

[Paulyman]

Blackmail them! tell them you want your share of the meat or else.

[M.Dean]

I can't believe this thread is still going!!! The bad guys probably have the whole bloody Buffalo eaten, they washed the blood out of the truck and are sitting at home comparing Buffalo Farts while drinking beer and laughing at how they wacked there Buff the day before the season opened!!! So much for RAPP!!!

[partner]

Sounds like group A looked intimidating! I would say it is a mood point now. He said she said type of situation. Maybe focus on "what if" for the next time. Maybe they will be back next season if one of the buddies gets a tag. This is just one of those little learning lessons.