Age this ram

[David Heitsman]

This is my Stone's ram taken on the first day of a hunt two weeks ago with Stone Mtn Safaris.

I don't have his CI done yet so am uncertain as to his age. What do you think?

Taken at 56 yards!

http://www.trophyphotos.com/photos/full/18796.jpg

http://www.trophyphotos.com/photos/full/18818.jpg

http://www.trophyphotos.com/photos/full/18816.jpg

http://www.trophyphotos.com/photos/full/18817.jpg

Thanx to 1/2 Slam for showing the pic posting process!

[MadCat]

I'd say at least 10.5 but it depends on what they give you for the broomed off part. Hell of a ram.

[d6dan]

Tough one!, but i'm guessing 10 1/2. He sure holds his weight. Very nice Ram David, Congrats:smile:and the pics are very well done. It looks like hes missing 1 yr of horn?.

[SKYLINE]

Looks like 10 1/2 to me. Congrats on a beauty ram.

[PGK]

10.5+ Reasonably sure it's just 10.5 though...

[tomahawk]

10..................

[MOL]

I would say that ram is 12 1/2, given age for brooming! A real beauty! Congratulations!

[Rattler]

Beautiful ram and what a cape on him...

I get 11.5yrs

[bayou]

Congrats on one heck of a ram, great pictures and wow what beautiful colours in the cape. Whats the plan head mount or lifesize.

[Ruger4]

he's a 11+ er

[willy442]

I see 9 but believe he is 10 to 11. Can't count what you can't see and second. Why would you age him, just shoot.
Very Nice Ram!

[showtimebc]

I give him 10 1/2 yrs. sweet ram, love the snow pics!

[boxhitch]

I see 9 but believe he is 10 to 11. going from experience, best guess at growth rate, spacing of latter years, comparing to the innumerable horns you have handled........and you are not sure ?? :shock::)

[blackbart]

My guess is 10.5 based on what you can see. Probably one or two years older in reality, given the brooming.

Didn't know that Stone Mtn Safaris had bighorns in their territory:)

Classy ram for sure.

Please let us know what the CO's determine for age.

You could also post up the base circumfrance measurements to tease us a bit.

[hntcrazy]

I say 11.5 very nice ram......

[porcupine]

WOW! What a great ram! I'll say 11 years old. But who cares, it's a great trophy.
________
marijuana vaporizer (http://weedvaporizers.info/)

[d6dan]

Didn't know that Stone Mtn Safaris had bighorns in their territory:)


Its a "Stone Sheep" taken with Stone Mtn Safaris. Not a Bighorn.:redface:

[kootenayelkslayer]

He's 11 I do believe. Nice heavy ram!

[kennyj]

Thats one awesome ram!I'd agree with everyone so far at 10 1/2-11 1/2 yrs. old.
kenny

[behemoth]

That's a nice looking scope. What type of gun/ scope setup are you using? Congrats on the nice nice ram

[Blainer]

Wow David!That is one beautiful ram.
Good on ya!
I was kinda waiting on this thread.
This has been a banner year for ya.

[BlacktailStalker]

11, hammer ram.

[theK.G.B]

i have no professional opinion, just a really nice ram regardless. congrats.
what caliber did you down him with

[ThinAir]

I'd say 10 for sure......possibly even 11.

When you see a ram carry it's mass like that...you shoot!

That will be a beauty mount with the late season cape.

[Mik]

What a great ram, congrats. My Rookie Guess would be 9 1/2 from what I could see.

[boxhitch]

When you see a ram carry it's mass like that...you shoot!
.Careful. I know of a guide that made that mistake on a 7 yr old Stone's

[ThinAir]

Careful. I know of a guide that made that mistake on a 7 yr old Stone's


Ok, 9 out of 10 times you shoot:-P

[6 K]

I am gonna guess 11.5 yrs.
Shame on you for picking on an old and decrepit one. :roll::wink:
Just look how broken those horns are. He was probably in a wheel chair too.:lol:
Seriously, Good job !
First day, What did you do with the rest of your time?


EVERYONE OR NO ONE!

[mr.280]

great broomer stones ram, congratulations! I'd say a solid 10.5 year old ram.

[born2hunt]

I was thinking 11yrs beauty ram - im jealous

[huntsooke1]

nice ram congrats. just wondering wot is best to do with meat .just dont have knoledge on them

[Maxx]

Fantastic ram Dave..... I think that he is 11 +

[bruin]

Great ram, those old worriors are my favorites. I would say 11 and maybe a 12 ring in the long late season hair. I would call the first visable ring from the tip his third year as anything in the 9+ range should have the 3rd ring near the bottom of its curl.

[BCrams]

I initially had 10.5 but changed my mind after looking through pictures of other rams. That is indeed the 3rd year ring (first one from broomed tip) for a 11+ yr ram.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Awesome old ram!:cool:
Pics turned out great too!
I'd guess 11 or possibly one yr older. Like Bruin said.....older ram and a late season cape may be hinding another annuli.

SSS

[6616]

Looks like 11 1/2 but I think it's somewhat possible that the first visible annuli near the tip may even be his 4th which would make him 12 1/2. I'm just going by the diameter at the fourth annuli in comparison to my two Stones.

I don't think there's any annuli hidden at the base, the darkened area usually represents the current years growth, but you never can be sure with a ram that old, the annuli can get pretty crowded together at the base.

Great ram David, I'm sure he left his genes scattered all over that area over his life span.

[hunter1947]

Im no sheep hunter but I will say 10,1/2 years old.

[riflebuilder]

at least 10.5 possibly 11. You need to post after the CI the age

[johnny cabbage]

at least 10.5 possibly 11. You need to post after the CI the age

RifleBuilder, Call Me..Turcotte

[835]

11...........

[RiverBoatFantasy]

12 or 13 years of age. Very nice specimen. Congrats to SMS's for providing you the opportunity. Congrats to you for being a client. A win - win for all involved.

[Bowtime]

Thats how you take a picture!! Great ram to take also, at least 10 1/2.

[d6dan]

David, I've seen some nice Stone Rams over the years with mass but that guy takes the cake and carries it along way. It would have been nice to see him with some length to truly show his gene's. I'm truly impressed and again, Congratulations on a Beautiful Ram:-D..

[HD95]

Nice going Dave;Thats a fine old ram,well done.

[srupp]

Congradulations David, EXCEPTIONAL ram...it has everything...well done...

would also love to know what it scores...a ram of a lifetime...

cheers
Steven

[Gateholio]

Great ram!

It woudl be interesting to age a tooth, to find out the real age.:smile:

[whitetailsheds]

Truly exceptional Stones ram....

[gameslayer]

Great ram Dave, getting the age on that tooth would be neat to compare to the educated guesses.

[ursus]

Well done David, a fine old ram! Love the old broomers!:wink: Gonna make a beauty mount!

[Kody94]

Awesome ram David! Congrats!

[kootenayelkslayer]

Great ram Dave, getting the age on that tooth would be neat to compare to the educated guesses.

Don't need a tooth, thats what the horns are for!:razz: That ram is 11.5 years old, unless there is another ring that we can't see under the hair, in which case it is 12.5.

[slashhunter]

nice ram! 11+ my guess

[dutchie]

I do not know how to age a ram but from my best uneducated guess I would say 11.5-12.5 yrs old...


Very nice ram!

Congrats

Dutchie

[bigwhiteys]

I initially had 10.5 but changed my mind after looking through pictures of other rams. That is indeed the 3rd year ring (first one from broomed tip) for a 11+ yr ram.

You're sure about that...? That first ring looks like 2 to me and I've got some pics of heavy old stone rams to look at too, along with their corresponding ages. I'd give him the 10.5 and would have to see under that late cape to tell for sure.

Very Nice Ram Indeed David!

Carl

[Mtn Wonderer]

WHAT A RAM!!!! HE LOOKS SO BIG AND BURLY!!!!!!!

CONGRATS, DID YOU GO SOLELY FOR THE SHEEP HUNT, OR DID YOU HUNT OTHER GAME AS WELL???

WAS THE MONEY WELL SPENT IN YOUR MIND, HAPPY WITH THE OUT FIT
TER SERVICE??

mtw

[daycort]

Looks like 11 1/2 but I think it's somewhat possible that the first visible annuli near the tip may even be his 4th which would make him 12 1/2. I'm just going by the diameter at the fourth annuli in comparison to my two Stones.


This is what I got to he is very heavy at the first prominent ring. Very nice ram.

[bighornbob]

You're sure about that...? That first ring looks like 2 to me and I've got some pics of heavy old stone rams to look at too, along with their corresponding ages. I'd give him the 10.5 and would have to see under that late cape to tell for sure.

Very Nice Ram Indeed David!

Carl

I thought your way of counting is too count the first ring as three years old on mature rams???

BHB

[Dirty]

What does it green score? That is a beauty.

[bigwhiteys]

I thought your way of counting is too count the first ring as three years old on mature rams???

BHBFirst "prominent" ring as 3 years. That ring at the "broom" looks like a 2 year ring. We all know already the CI's word will be golden though!

Here is a the best one I could find for a comparison... This ram shares similar horns and was taken at about the same time of year. Where is the first prominent ring? I know how old this ram is...

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/sheepics/broomedram.jpg

Carl

[Stone Sheep Steve]

First "prominent" ring as 3 years. That ring at the "broom" looks like a 2 year ring. We all know already the CI's word will be golden though!

Here is a the best one I could find for a comparison... This ram shares similar horns and was taken at about the same time of year. Where is the first prominent ring? I know how old this ram is...

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/sheepics/broomedram.jpg

Carl

Interesting point, Carl. Looks like there is more of a "bump" than a groove at both of those second annuli(first visible on DH's). I looked on my stone and there is a similar bump at the second annuli as well.

All I know is this one is not going to end up in court:grin:.

SSS

[boxhitch]

I actually gave the ram a 12 from the first picture I saw, slightly different.
I was giving more age due to the closeness of the rings in the latter years.
Quite often, the second ring is buffed smooth due to rubbing, and almost invisible.

I stand corrected , by the sherriff. 'Less visible' would be the term. Just why the first predominant ring is called the third.

[fullcurl33]

what a sheep congrats , i would say he's pushing 11 .

[guest]

David,
That is one hell of a Dandy Ram !

An old boy that for sure has done his share of passing on some good genes.

The long hair late season Rams look fantastic!

Congrats to you.

CT

[Deadshot]

Congrats!
Hog of a ram, David.
I'm goin with the 11.5 crowd.
56 yards, that's bow range!:eek:

[Dale]

That is a beauty!!! I would say 11.5 for sure. Not much time left for that big guy. Congrats.

[BCrams]

You're sure about that...? That first ring looks like 2 to me and I've got some pics of heavy old stone rams to look at too, along with their corresponding ages. I'd give him the 10.5 and would have to see under that late cape to tell for sure.

Very Nice Ram Indeed David!

Carl

I've been looking more and more at it over the weekend and I am starting to flip back to my original call as the majority of sheep tend to be like the comparison you posted up. Srupps ram shows the 3 similar to Dave's ram. (likely depending on the curl style of the ram?)

Regardless - its a super ram Dave took and wouldn't begrudge anyone shooting a super ram!

[bigwhiteys]

I've been looking more and more at it over the weekend and I am starting to flip back to my original call as the majority of sheep tend to be like the comparison you posted up.That first visible ring is the 2 year mark... If the ram I posted horns weren't covered with snow you would be able to see his as well. It gives a good idea on what Daves ram could have broomed though, as well as a pretty close comparison horn rate of growth.

And FYI the ram I posted did NOT have an annuli hidden at the base... Had he made another year or two his growth would have slowed enough so that an annuli could very well be hidden. If you look at the base of Davids ram you can see that tell tale dark color of new growth.

Carl

[willy442]

I actually gave the ram a 12 from the first picture I saw, slightly different.
I was giving more age due to the closeness of the rings in the latter years.
Quite often, the second ring is buffed smooth due to rubbing, and almost invisible.
I have seen alot of Rams and never have I not been able to easily identify the second year ring. You are not capable of properly aging a Ram if you have this kind of problem and I suggest you contact BW to see if you can maybe borrow a few flicks to study. He has lots of mine.

Also in regards to the Ram shown on here. Many of you in the past have stated that a Ram should only be shot by horn length. I hope this exceptional ram of Davids, shows how you are wrong. A trophy caliber Ram is very easily determined because when viewed he looks big like Daves. If you have to try and make a Ram legal then he probably isn't and should most likely be left on the mountain for another year.

Last: It sure seems the wanna be sheep experts on this thread have done alot of editing to thier posts. Why?:grin:

[David Heitsman]

Not trying to be coy but the ram has been CI'd and is now in Cache Creek where I'll pick him up after deer hunting sometime around the 9th of November. I don't know his age as of yet but will post it when I get the documentation.

I was most impressed by the size, length of hair and whiteness of his cape as he looked like a walrus on the mountain that morning.

Having seen it with the hair off we at our camp all thought that he was 11.5 yet we taped the first ring visible on both sides and compared it to another ram killed a couple miles away the week before. That ring was the same circumference as the third on a ram with his full tips at which we wondered if he was 12.5. I'm thinking he's 11.5 but posted the pics
as some fun since we don't always get to hold or see pics of one broomed equally on both sides. He's actually a fairly tight ram and with his tips he
likely wouldn't have gone past 37". We roughly greened him at 150".

To answer a couple questions;

The scope is a Schmidt & Bender sitting on a Bansner's Ultimate Ovis that I got at the Grand Slam auction. It's in .300 WM using 180 gr. Triple Shock Barnes. The scope has a little circle within the scope that is right around where the reticles cross. I haven't used it enough to formulate an opinion on the scope but the gun shoots very well. With the small muzzle brake it is softer on my shoulder than my .270.

It was a 14 day hunt but I flew back after a few days of preparing the lifesize cape and riding out to where a plane could get me. I was welcome to hunt elk and moose or goats for the duration but the weather was turning for the worse and I need to be back at work as I have another
couple week long deer hunts planned in November.

I'll write an article about the hunt (allthough it will be a short one!) for the WSSoBC magazine.

As to the pic set up. I try to really take time and create some good pics
but I had forgotton some filament to snub his nose. I ran out of tissue trying to plug him up and the pics posted show a bit of blood. The first pictures didn't at all and I need to learn how to use one of those 'Photoshop' type of programs to clean him up more. Sheep seem to be worse than most by showing color at their mouth even when their lungs aren't hit.

Appreciate the comments from everyone. These broomed rams aren't for everybody but they do exhibit a certain warrior character I like. He's getting up there in age yet his dentition was solid and unworn. He had a good fat cap and very minor bruising so if he could make this year's rut he'd likely have made it to see another hunting season.

[Rubicon500]

Congrats on the ram!! Beaufitul Old broomed warrior!!
Id definalty call the first visable annuli the 2nd year mark. Ive never seen a thinhorn where the 4th annuli was nearly strait up and down (For the guys calling the first visable the 3rd)

How big where the bases on that guy 14"ish ?

[kootenayelkslayer]

Picture that ram if it still had its tips. That would be an unlikely amount of growth if we call that first visible ring "2 years".
Plus on a ram that large, it'd be pretty unlikely that the 3rd year ring would be that far back. Usually on a ram like that, that is old and well beyond full curl (if it had its tips) the 3rd year ring is right around the bottom of the curl.
Although.... he is a bit of a tight curler.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Here's a similar type of ram. You can see the 3rd year ring in the bottom of the rams curl.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/mikeb04/scan0009.jpg

[kootenayelkslayer]

And here's another ram with the 3rd year annuli right in the bottom of the curl... and he was only 8.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/mikeb04/100_1035.jpg

[bigwhiteys]

Picture that ram if it still had its tips. That would be an unlikely amount of growth if we call that first visible ring "2 years".Okay here ya go... The ram at the top was taken not 50 miles from Davids ram at the same time of season and shares similar horns and even has his tips to boot. You think the annuli between his eye and his ear is 3?

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/sheepics/broomedram.jpg

[willy442]

And here's another ram with the 3rd year annuli right in the bottom of the curl... and he was only 8.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/mikeb04/100_1035.jpg

The way you are counting makes the ring you refer to as the 2.5 year ring. I don't count the lamb tip as it is really irrelevant in the aging process. Most times when CI'd it is ignored. With this in mind, if you move back to what would be your 3.5 year ring, it would become the first really prominent ring, showing an indent all the way around the horn. When viewed from a distance with a spotting scope it becomes the first prominent ring also. Davids ram is broomed back to the annuli of his second year, not third. If you look back to the big broomed ram I took in 1975 it is very similar and was 42 7/8ths when we shot him. When in the hands of all the experts at FNAWS they figured it had broomed back to it's second year also and estimated at 8.5 to 9.5 inches broomed. Had the ram still retained his tips like he had a year earlier, he would have been in the same length catagory as the Chadwick.

[PGK]

The way you are counting makes the ring you refer to as the 2.5 year ring. I don't count the lamb tip as it is really irrelevant in the aging process. Most times when CI'd it is ignored. With this in mind, if you move back to what would be your 3.5 year ring, it would become the first really prominent ring, showing an indent all the way around the horn. When viewed from a distance with a spotting scope it becomes the first prominent ring also. Davids ram is broomed back to the annuli of his second year, not third. If you look back to the big broomed ram I took in 1975 it is very similar and was 42 7/8ths when we shot him. When in the hands of all the experts at FNAWS they figured it had broomed back to it's second year also and estimated at 8.5 to 9.5 inches broomed. Had the ram still retained his tips like he had a year earlier, he would have been in the same length catagory as the Chadwick.

You're just confusing everybody. Lamb tip = year one. Everything else is just muddying the water.

[Camp Cook]

Awesome ram Dave...

[willy442]

You're just confusing everybody. Lamb tip = year one. Everything else is just muddying the water.

Easily done for most on here. Aging is really not that difficult.:razz:

[BiG Boar]

Wow, I just found this post. That is one "Heck" and I dont just throw that word at any animal, of a RAM! Good job! Way to lay into em! That is the most beautiful cape I have ever seen on a stone ram to boot! All I can say is WOW!