REG 4 proposed changes

[benbeckoutfitters]

anyone herd about this crap got a email the other day about this...
this is a sum up

aug 15-sep 15 archery
aug 15-sep 15 junior / senior season
sept 10- oct. 20 3 point or better bull elk
sept 10-nov 15 any muley buck
also west kootenay bull 6 point or better no more leh

like wtf are these guys thinking theyre saying its "better hunter oppurtunities" last time i checked our elk herds are finally getting strong and the elk hunting is finaly getting good...my dad was telling me that in the early 90s if you shot a 6 point bull it was pretty awesome and now its a regular thing. I am a huge mule deer finatic and i feel sorry for the deer next year if this goes through they gonna get slammed...
The only method to madness i can see behind this is that when a fella goes out elk hunting...75% of the population will kill that 3 point or better therefore leaving the 6s to others or to just live another year anyone else have some opinons on this absolute outrage?

[hunter1993ap]

i have never went to the koots before but i do thingk that the six point season is esential for keeping a good healthy elk population. And i agree with you it is an outrage if it is going to happen. the elk and mulie herds will get destoyed again if this happens!!!

[blacktailslayer]

Another bonehead move by our undereducated, overpaid bureaucrats.

[Devilbear]

There was just a long and somewhat acrimonious thread on this very situation; I am a bit surprised that you didn't see it.

The ...outrage...in the Kootenays is not and has not been that resident hunters can finally have appropriate access to our wildlife, it is that "non-resident aliens" as clients of GOs have been taking so many animals and in areas that are essentially "out of bounds" for res. hunters, due to bullshitt road closures......like the one behind Anna Fontana's camp up the Elk.......

Nah, what we NEED is to STOP-BAN-END ALL repeat ALL "non-resident alien" hunting in the Kootenays, forthwith, and keep all our game for we resident hunters and share any we do not harvest with our fellow Canadian hunters, at a financial cost that working people can afford.

[benbeckoutfitters]

ya i deff. did not see that thread but fellas this just seems so unfair you know like its just like this stupid 2 point bull moose tag...absolute money grab...honestly i have never seen a 2 pint bull moose ever....but apparently we have so many 2 points lets open er rate up...anyways this is a joke bottom line....i also (sorry non koot hunters) totaly disagree that 95% of cow draws go to vancouverites...thats a piss off theres alot of guys that would love to get that draw. as a matter of fact one of my good huntn buddies has been putting in for that draw for 9 years never been drawn...now that doesnt seem right for a stupid cow draw...puts in with his uncles addy this year( whos from burnaby) and draws cow...fluke? ya maybe but i dunno

[GoatGuy]

anyone herd about this crap got a email the other day about this...
this is a sum up

aug 15-sep 15 archery
aug 15-sep 15 junior / senior season
sept 10- oct. 20 3 point or better bull elk
sept 10-nov 15 any muley buck
also west kootenay bull 6 point or better no more leh

like wtf are these guys thinking theyre saying its "better hunter oppurtunities" last time i checked our elk herds are finally getting strong and the elk hunting is finaly getting good...my dad was telling me that in the early 90s if you shot a 6 point bull it was pretty awesome and now its a regular thing. I am a huge mule deer finatic and i feel sorry for the deer next year if this goes through they gonna get slammed...
The only method to madness i can see behind this is that when a fella goes out elk hunting...75% of the population will kill that 3 point or better therefore leaving the 6s to others or to just live another year anyone else have some opinons on this absolute outrage?

Most of what you have posted is accurate when it comes to what has been proposed.

Here's a link:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/wld/Proposed_reg_changes.html

Re-read the proposals.

[GoatGuy]

i also (sorry non koot hunters) totaly disagree that 95% of cow draws go to vancouverites...thats a piss off theres alot of guys that would love to get that draw. as a matter of fact one of my good huntn buddies has been putting in for that draw for 9 years never been drawn...now that doesnt seem right for a stupid cow draw...puts in with his uncles addy this year( whos from burnaby) and draws cow...fluke? ya maybe but i dunno

95% of cow draws don't go to 'vancouverites', not even close.

I have no idea who's been sending you emails and giving you information but 2 sets of hands, a flashlight and a winch wouldn't cure their problems.

[Devilbear]

...vancouverites...????? Geez, and here I thought that we were ALL BC citizens, silly me!

Oh, sonofagun, I was BORN and RAISED in the Kootenays and my family has lived there for almost 120 years and in BC for quite a lot longer. So ,tell me, just exactly WHO do you consider ...non koot hunters...?

[Clint_S]

Moving any season archery or otherwise to Aug. 15 is sheer stupidity. It's a challenge to get meat out in early Sept. when the mornings and hopefully evenings are substantially cooler.

[Devilbear]

THAT I definitely agree with, but, something tells me that this thread is not quite what it is purported to be...................

[bighornbob]

Moving any season archery or otherwise to Aug. 15 is sheer stpidity. It's a challenge to get meat out by in early Sept. when the mornings and hopefully evenings are substantially cooler.


How do the guys that hunt with bows in mid-august in Utah and Arizona get their meat out??? I would think its a little hotter down there and not one of them complains about being able to hunt then.

BHB

[blackbart]

Goatguy, you just made me laugh. Normally your posts do not have that effect.

Thanks. (two hands and a winch)

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I am in full support of the region 4 proposals but I would like to see more:

Remove all existing road closures

Increase grizzly LEH tag allowance 20 fold (fall and spring seasons)

Restrict outfitter quota for all species and not allow foriegn ownership of outfitter territories.

Helicopter and snowmobile wolf kill

Send in your comments hunters. Victoria needs to hear your voice.

[BlacktailStalker]

Grizz alottments are a must.

[LBM]

In order to agree or disagree with the proposed changes one must decide what kind of hunting experience you want. This will never be consistent amongst all hunters. Do you like to get into elk every time you go out and only shoot a 6 point every couple years, or do you want to kill a bull every year for a short period of time then wait until the elk numbers are back up?Just one example IMO.

[GoatGuy]

i have never went to the koots before but i do thingk that the six point season is esential for keeping a good healthy elk population. And i agree with you it is an outrage if it is going to happen. the elk and mulie herds will get destoyed again if this happens!!!

This actually couldn't be any further from the truth. The population declines for both elk and mule deer had absolutely nothing to do with the buck and bull hunting seasons. Most of it can be attributed to winter kill and in the case of elk high cow harvest in the 90s. Wolves are in the mix as well.

The bull:cow and buck:doe ratios required without significantly affecting timing of the rut and resulting calving (overall population growth) is probably around 3-5:100. To be on the safe side we'll say 10:100 and we know we will not negatively effect the population. Currently elk around the EK is upwards of 30 bulls:100 cows. The 6 pt harvest regime will negatively impact genetics in the long run.

The mule deer buck:doe ratio probably varies significantly across the region depending on the area. Most of the area is probably >20:100 because of the antler restrictions. Ironically the antler restrictions are also bad for genetics in the long term and also result in a decline in mature bucks (3 years+).

If all this fails to have an impact on your thinking consider this:

The elk in the northern part of yellowstone national park went from 17,000 to 11,000 as well that year. There's no hunting in yellowstone and that was before they had wolves like they had in the EK.

The 6 pts season has little to do with the current system of the elk population.

[BCrams]

In order to agree or disagree with the proposed changes one must decide what kind of hunting experience you want. This will never be consistent amongst all hunters. Do you like to get into elk every time you go out and only shoot a 6 point every couple years, or do you want to kill a bull every year for a short period of time then wait until the elk numbers are back up?Just one example IMO.

Sounds like a bunch of guides and outfitters on here.

Hunters will never reduce the population like you imply.

Keeping thr way things are right now will lead to a mass die off. That is what happened last time and will happen again.

[Ltbullken]

What are the reasons for the changes? What is the success rates now with the regs? 7B has some generous elk seasons but the populations are also sustainable. Is there a lot conflict with agriculture? Are populations sustainable in the future if not managed differently?

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking if there is an understanding of the rationale for reg changes. Certainly hear a lot of complaining... :???: Hopefully we can avoid...

2 sets of hands, a flashlight and a winch wouldn't cure their problems.

[bcbooner]

Ek Elk hunting is as good today as it ever was.Great action durring the bugle season,its a rush to call in a Bull close enough to touch even if they are 5pts.I have hunted through the drought when you had to bust your ass for days just to hear a Bull,now you could get 5 Bulls in one basin.Leave the season alone,its great, with some effort finding a 6pt isnt that tough.This year over a 2 week period we had 6 diff.6pts within 60 yards and shot 3.along with those we had at least 12 lesser Bulls in that we could have shot.What a hoot doesnt get any better than that.

[Savage Man]

Sounds like a bunch of guides and outfitters on here.

Hunters will never reduce the population like you imply.

Keeping thr way things are right now will lead to a mass die off. That is what happened last time and will happen again.

Wow !!!!!!!!

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Ray Demarchi who was the Game Biologist in the East Kootenays in the 80's he was the one who caused the mass die off you are talking about . Oh ya that was called killing of all the cow and calves and having a 3 piont season, oh my that was a population decrease caused by hunters that took 15 years to recover from. Maybe you should get your facts straight.

[boxhitch]

Wow !!!!!!!!

........was the one who caused the mass die off you are talking about . Oh ya that was called killing of all the cow and calves and having a 3 piont season, .........Your kidding right ? This is satire? Must be.
There were other factors.

[boxhitch]

Moving any season archery or otherwise to Aug. 15 is sheer stpidity. It's a challenge to get meat out by in early Sept. when the mornings and hopefully evenings are substantially cooler.So why tell someone when not to/to hunt because of something that has such a simple remedy ? Let the hunter make the choice.

[horshur]

Wow !!!!!!!!

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Ray Demarchi who was the Game Biologist in the East Kootenays in the 80's he was the one who caused the mass die off you are talking about . Oh ya that was called killing of all the cow and calves and having a 3 piont season, oh my that was a population decrease caused by hunters that took 15 years to recover from. Maybe you should get your facts straight.


Do a little research on the Kaibab deer herd. Protection based on good intentions....
http://www.biologycorner.com/worksheets/kaibab.html

[Savage Man]

Your kidding right ? This is satire? Must be.
There were other factors.

No not satire I lived thru it it was aweful and no other factors caused this do your home work please. Please leave things the way they are we have lots of Elk now and hunting is alot of fun. This is comong from a guy who just got home at the end of elk season with tag soup, but I had alot of great bugling and many chances which didn't happen in the early 90's.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

No not satire I lived thru it it was aweful and no other factors caused this do your home work please. Please leave things the way they are we have lots of Elk now and hunting is alot of fun. This is comong from a guy who just got home at the end of elk season with tag soup, but I had alot of great bugling and many chances which didn't happen in the early 90's.

It is not, nor will it ever be only about you. It appears that emotion is driving your bus. There is a whole province full of hunters who would enjoy enhanced harvest opportunities.

p.s. I also support extended rifle hunt season for the elk and sheep until at least Nov. 5.

And get rid of the damn road closures and mine closed areas.

[killerkevin]

Well it sounds like there is a high success rate of elk already. So IMO if hunters are filling their tags with 3 point or better instead of 6 then I don't see over harvesting being an issue at all. Might help them out genetically if the smaller bulls are thinned out a bit more.

[kootenayelkslayer]

No not satire I lived thru it it was aweful and no other factors caused this do your home work please. Please leave things the way they are we have lots of Elk now and hunting is alot of fun. This is comong from a guy who just got home at the end of elk season with tag soup, but I had alot of great bugling and many chances which didn't happen in the early 90's.

Ummm... sticking my neck out here, but it may have had a little something to do with a couple horrible winters. 1996/1997?? Ringing any bells? Surely if you lived through it, you would remember that.

[boxhitch]

Savage, I'm not about to go rooting through all the old threads to present where this has been beat up already, but lots of good info and hard data have been presented here on HBC. Take a look and maybe see the whole picture. This is not a new debete.

[Savage Man]

River boat fantasy I think that your location (in the dark ) Is more than just that come out of the dark and realize it is about the elk numbers that create harvest opportunities. Without numbers their are no opportunities!!!!!!

[.300WSMImpact!]

I cant wait to get out to the koots, to shot a 3 pointer, much rather a 3 point than a 6 point, better meat,

[Savage Man]

Ummm... sticking my neck out here, but it may have had a little something to do with a couple horrible winters. 1996/1997?? Ringing any bells? Surely if you lived through it, you would remember that.

The damage was done long before that , But I agree that bad winters do have an effect especially when the numbers have already been decimated.

[dana]

Clint,
Bighornbob is correct. Ut and Az have their archery elk seasons start Aug 15. Nv actually starts their archery season Aug 1. Hell of a lot hotter there than here and the stick and string guys down there ain't complaining. I'd like to see an Aug 15 opener from archery muleys as well. Ut, Az, Nv, CO, and a bunch of other states all start then. Wouldn't it be a blast to hit some of BC's remote highcountry without worry of the sevre weather that hits the beggining of Sept. The southern highcountry is the most under utilized hunt in this province because the seasons are set for failure. It becomes a life and death struggle just to stay warm and not be blown off the mountain than the joyous experience hunting the alpine could be. Think Aug 15, go in ultra light, a lightweight bag and a tarp and the lightness of a bow instead of rifle. That would make me give up the rifle and give up late season muleys in a heartbeat.

[Savage Man]

I cant wait to get out to the koots, to shot a 3 pointer, much rather a 3 point than a 6 point, better meat,

Have fun for a couple of years until we have no elk left and then you won't have to spend your money coming here to hunt because there will be no reason to come.

[Islandeer]

ya i deff. did not see that thread but fellas this just seems so unfair you know like its just like this stupid 2 point bull moose tag...absolute money grab...honestly i have never seen a 2 pint bull moose ever....but apparently we have so many 2 points lets open er rate up...anyways this is a joke bottom line....i also (sorry non koot hunters) totaly disagree that 95% of cow draws go to vancouverites...thats a piss off theres alot of guys that would love to get that draw. as a matter of fact one of my good huntn buddies has been putting in for that draw for 9 years never been drawn...now that doesnt seem right for a stupid cow draw...puts in with his uncles addy this year( whos from burnaby) and draws cow...fluke? ya maybe but i dunno
give it a rest re "your" elk draw. I have been putting in for close to 30 years for island elk and never got it. read the previous thread that covers this very well. The game in this province is for all British Colombians, difficult concept but you should be able to get it. :lol:

[bearass]

I also think we need to leave things the way they are.Would the elk changes be fun? Yes But I don,t think it will do any good for the long term.All the guys on hear that complain that they can,t find a 6 point will be complaining because they can,t find a three point.If this goes threw.:lol:

I was talking to a friend of mine from Fernie the other day. They went out for elk on the long weekend, four guys.They seen 12 bulls over the weekend all the bulls were under 5 points.If we had a 3point rule all four guys could have shot a bull. How long do you think the herds could sustian that.Not to mention how many potential 6 points for the next hunting season that would not be walking around.

[bearass]

L.E.H. In the West Kootenays.


Let out more Leh tags double or tripple the tags but don,t open it up!!!!!!

[dana]

It is nice to see a Region actually doing some serious thinking about how we manage game in this province and come up with some solid concrete ideas to change things for the better. I appaud those in Region 4 for actually putting hunters first. Those from other Regions should take a hard look at these proposals. You can bet if we adopted many of these regulation changes accross all the southern Interior, hunters would see much better quality hunts as the overcrowding issues in small open units would be a thing of the past. More people would hunt closer to home and actually see some success instead of bitching about how the 'out of towners' F**ked them over.

[Savage Man]

I also think we need to leave things the way they are.Would the elk changes be fun? Yes But I don,t think it will do any good for the long term.All the guys on hear that complain that they can,t find a 6 point will be complaining because they can,t find a three point.If this goes threw.:lol:

I was talking to a friend of mine from Fernie the other day. They went out for elk on the long weekend, four guys.They seen 12 bulls over the weekend all the bulls were under 5 points.If we had a 3point rule all four guys could have shot a bull. How long do you think the herds could sustian that.Not to mention how many potential 6 points for the next hunting season that would not be walking around.

Very well said Thank you!!!!!!

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I also think we need to leave things the way they are.Would the elk changes be fun? Yes But I don,t think it will do any good for the long term.All the guys on hear that complain that they can,t find a 6 point will be complaining because they can,t find a three point.If this goes threw.:lol:

I was talking to a friend of mine from Fernie the other day. They went out for elk on the long weekend, four guys.They seen 12 bulls over the weekend all the bulls were under 5 points.If we had a 3point rule all four guys could have shot a bull. How long do you think the herds could sustian that.Not to mention how many potential 6 points for the next hunting season that would not be walking around.

That sounds like it would have been a great weekend of hunting during a 3 point season.

It's always best to not count your bagged elk until they drop and are retrieved:cry:

[Islandeer]

River boat fantasy I think that your location (in the dark ) Is more than just that come out of the dark and realize it is about the elk numbers that create harvest opportunities. Without numbers their are no opportunities!!!!!!
Oh yeah, forgot to add,carrying capacity,killer winters, 1996,dieoffs. more tough concepts, when the next dieoff comes and all of your horded 6pts and 4 spike mulies starve, there will be no Ray Demarchi to blame .. this time. :smile:

[dana]

That sounds like it would have been a great weekend of hunting during a 3 point season.

It's always best to not count your bagged elk until they drop and are retrieved:cry:

LOL!

The first one might get dropped but then the work begins. When it comes to elk, the more hands to help pack the better. Many times this cuts into the hunting time of the helpers, thus limiting their future success.

[GoatGuy]

The damage was done long before that , But I agree that bad winters do have an effect especially when the numbers have already been decimated.

This actually couldn't be any further from the truth.

Wildlife populations that are managed well below carrying capacity fare much better through a hard winter than those near or particularly at or above carrying capacity.

[brotherjack]

Dang.... trophy hunters/GO's make me sick to my stomach.

Nuff said, lest I get "warned".

[dana]

Dang.... trophy hunters/GO's make me sick to my stomach.

Nuff said, lest I get "warned".

Not all trophy hunters are bad. ;) The earlier the meat hunters tag out means the earlier a serious hard core hunter can have the place all to himself. :)

[Savage Man]

Oh yeah, forgot to add,carrying capacity,killer winters, 1996,dieoffs. more tough concepts, when the next dieoff comes and all of your horded 6pts and 4 spike mulies starve, there will be no Ray Demarchi to blame .. this time. :smile:

Well at least next time it won't have been caused by a biologist. I find it very interesting how most of the poeple who disagree with me are from outside the east koot. area and just like last time when the elk numbers are the tank you guy will go somewhere else until the numbers come back.

[Islandeer]

Do you really think that a group of 4 local Fernie boys looking for braggin rights 6 spike bulls are going to go out and shoot 4 3 or 4 spikes?

Not likely. In a GOS all types of hunters get an opportunity to harvest a "trophy" in their eyes. Be it 3 or 6 spike bulls or 3 or 4pt mulies. And a population will adjust to road side harvests eventually too, which will balance things out.

[GoatGuy]

Have fun for a couple of years until we have no elk left and then you won't have to spend your money coming here to hunt because there will be no reason to come.

That is also not true. A 3 pt season won't knock the elk population back. It will likely result in fewer mature 5 + 6 pts overall but its effect on the health of the elk population will be negligible.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I prefer hunting elk elsewhere. But lots of people enjoy an EK elk hunt. Beautiful area to hunt.

[GoatGuy]

Well at least next time it won't have been caused by a biologist. I find it very interesting how most of the poeple who disagree with me are from outside the east koot.

This isn't accurate either. You will find most people from the east koot who are informed won't agree with you.

[Savage Man]

That is also not true. A 3 pt season won't knock the elk population back. It will likely result in fewer mature 5 + 6 pts overall but its effect on the health of the elk population will be negligible.

Give your head a shake !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will have an f ing slaughter for a few years and then WHAT? oH YA no bulls to hunt!!!!!!!!! But then you guys won't have to bother coming here anymore.

[Islandeer]

Well at least next time it won't have been caused by a biologist. I find it very interesting how most of the poeple who disagree with me are from outside the east koot. area and just like last time when the elk numbers are the tank you guy will go somewhere else until the numbers come back.
You pegged me!! BUT I haven't missed a EK season in 30 years. And my old man started hunting there in the 50ties. So we have seen some sh.. t.

the old man new Ray D very well,so i have the facts too!! :cool:

It's a damn good thing us islanders are a bunch of salmon Nimbies, hell we will tell you where to fish,what to use,when to go, might withhold depth and colour though ... :lol:

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Dont piss me off SavageMan or I may start a 10 page thread of where to hunt elk in the EK. And I'll type it in Mandarin.

[GoatGuy]

Give your head a shake !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will have an f ing slaughter for a few years and then WHAT? oH YA no bulls to hunt!!!!!!!!! But then you guys won't have to bother coming here anymore.

That isn't correct either.

When you look at the harvest and inventory data that isn't what happened in the past and there were several more hunters then (double in the 1980s across the province) and mostly a 3 pts season.

The bull harvest has nothing to do with the elk population. You'd have to have an any bull season for a good 3-4 months and remove all the access restrictions before you'd have a measurable impact on recruitment and the overall elk population.

I don't go to the EK to hunt elk. ;-)

I am shaking my head though.

[bighornbob]

Clint,
Bighornbob is correct. Ut and Az have their archery elk seasons start Aug 15. Nv actually starts their archery season Aug 1. Hell of a lot hotter there than here and the stick and string guys down there ain't complaining. I'd like to see an Aug 15 opener from archery muleys as well. Ut, Az, Nv, CO, and a bunch of other states all start then. Wouldn't it be a blast to hit some of BC's remote highcountry without worry of the sevre weather that hits the beggining of Sept. The southern highcountry is the most under utilized hunt in this province because the seasons are set for failure. It becomes a life and death struggle just to stay warm and not be blown off the mountain than the joyous experience hunting the alpine could be. Think Aug 15, go in ultra light, a lightweight bag and a tarp and the lightness of a bow instead of rifle. That would make me give up the rifle and give up late season muleys in a heartbeat.

Dana

You have to remember the guys that would be willing to pack light and head to the highcountry probably already do and will continue to do so regardless of the seasons. The guys complaining are the guys that want to road hunt for their deer and throw it in the back of their truck whole. Can you blaim them, who wants a deer covered in East Kootenay talcum powder road dust.:eek:

BHB

[Ltbullken]

...I find it very interesting how most of the poeple who disagree with me are from outside the east koot. area ....

What's your point here? Hunters travel all over the province - go up north for moose, hunters up north come south for deer... There is a lot of disagreement, a lot of supposition but there are few facts to back up any of the rhetoric.

[Savage Man]

You pegged me!! BUT I haven't missed a EK season in 30 years. And my old man started hunting there in the 50ties. So we have seen some sh.. t.

the old man new Ray D very well,so i have the facts too!! :cool:

It's a damn good thing us islanders are a bunch of salmon Nimbies, hell we will tell you where to fish,what to use,when to go, might withhold depth and colour though ... :lol:

Ya I pegged people from outside the ea
st koot. and if you have been coming for 30 years then you have seen the ups and downs in people coming here to hunt.

As for Ray D. I know his son fairly well and have nothing against the man but political presure caused him to decimate our elk herd.

As for the fish and color you didn't ever ask me where to hunt elk.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Now this is a good thread. Everybody getting along with solid facts triumphant over emotional rhetoric.

I shall put down the Mandarin dictionary.

[Savage Man]

Dont piss me off SavageMan or I may start a 10 page thread of where to hunt elk in the EK. And I'll type it in Mandarin.

HAHA now that is good humor please don't do that i hate to english to mandarin dictionaries . I promiss ill be good haha. GOOd one!!

[humble hunter]

Oh boy, if elk is going to open on august 15th I better just call the divorce lawyer now and get it over with.

I don't know, People just assume that if there was a 3pt season it would be a slaughter. There were alot of poeple hunting during the seniors cow season from Sept 10th to 20th this year. We only saw 1 other cow shot and 1 other bull come out. the lions share of poeple we talked to had not even seen an elk. then again for most of them they would have to run in front of their truck and stop in the middle of the road.

[Savage Man]

That isn't correct either.

When you look at the harvest and inventory data that isn't what happened in the past and there were several more hunters then (double in the 1980s across the province) and mostly a 3 pts season.

The bull harvest has nothing to do with the elk population. You'd have to have an any bull season for a good 3-4 months and remove all the access restrictions before you'd have a measurable impact on recruitment and the overall elk population.

I don't go to the EK to hunt elk. ;-)

I am shaking my head though.

You don't hunt elk here but you are an expert !!!!!!!
Now its me that is shaking my head . I don't milk cows but i think i should be on the dairy congress lol. Again give your head a shake.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Oh boy, if elk is going to open on august 15th I better just call the divorce lawyer now and get it over with.

I don't know, People just assume that if there was a 3pt season it would be a slaughter. There were alot of poeple hunting during the seniors cow season from Sept 10th to 20th this year. We only saw 1 other cow shot and 1 other bull come out. the lions share of poeple we talked to had not even seen an elk. then again for most of them they would have to run in front of their truck and stop in the middle of the road.

No elk is easy. Road killed elk is a Fantasy for most folk.

[GoatGuy]

There is a lot of disagreement, a lot of supposition but there are few facts to back up any of the rhetoric.

Here's the cole's notes of what the science tells us:

Most wildlife populations contain more males than are need to fertilize females.


Progressive reduction of the % males in the population has little effect of fecundity of females until a critical threshold is reached (e.g. not all females fertilized, calving delayed, less synchronous).

Long and short of it is if you have 10 bulls:100 cows you don't have a problem with the sperm getting to the egg. Really you could probably get right down to 3-5 bulls:100 cows without an issue. With elk and deer the age of the 'daddies' doesn't make much difference, with moose it does.


Bull:cow in the EK is around 30:100 with heavy hunting pressure on the 6 point and greater component (and the number of illegal kills 5 pts etc). With no hunting you'll probably have around 60-70:100 due to predation.

We've got a long ways to go with bull harvest before we run into sperm supply problems.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

You don't hunt elk here but you are an expert !!!!!!!
Now its me that is shaking my head . I don't milk cows but i think i should be on the dairy congress lol. Again give your head a shake.

Some of us walk past the elk and go higher when hunting in the EK;)

[GoatGuy]

You don't hunt elk here but you are an expert !!!!!!!
Now its me that is shaking my head . I don't milk cows but i think i should be on the dairy congress lol. Again give your head a shake.

I see plenty of elk where I hunt, just don't really have the itch to shoot one.

A 300-320 class ek bull doesn't get me anymore excited than a 3 pt. I went out elk hunting last fall with the GF for a couple days cause she bought a tag. Had a bunch of bulls on the go but it really does nothing for me either way if we're talking about EK bulls. 3 pt or a 300 makes no difference to me either way. It's a slab of meat no different than a wt doe, a 2 spike moose, or one of the steers that's sitting out in my field.

The part that concerns me is some people believe that the 6 pt season has something to do with the health of the herd and it doesn't. A 3 pt season will have 0 effect on the health of the elk herd in the EK and the science supports it.

If you want to keep the 6 pt season so you can have bragging rights for shooting a rinky dink bull than so be it but don't push this business about the impact a 3 pt season will have on the elk herd - it simply isn't true.

[Devilbear]

GG, don't confuse the "expurts" or "locals" with basic wildlife biology, as everyone "knows" that biologists, foresters and anyone with an education that enables them to spell words of more than two syllables correctly, "don't know fugall, overpaid, underworked, blah, blah, blah.

This is my 45th hunting season and I remember sitting in the old BCFS Ranger District #2 office in the Fernie Courthouse in April, 1965 and having the "oldtimers" tell me, "the game is all gone, ya shoulda seen it in '47". The same rhetoric came from a few so-called "locals" when I was an auxiliary, by choice, at Invermere, in 1970, and some of THESE guys were not even in Canada before the mid-fifties...........

A short 3-pt season in the Kootenays would, IMHO, be beneficial to most resident hunters and NOT detrimental to the Elk populations in any respect. It "might" interfere with the GO's situation, TFB.

Dana makes a point about the early season and while I tend to Clint's view of this and remind those who mention Utah and Arizona, that Elk hunting there is mostly on huge private ranches where the meat extraction is a HELL of a lot easier than packing one out of Crawford, Ladybird or Commerce Creeks in the Kootenays, it is possible to extract Mulies and not lose the meat. Sooo, maybe Dana is right, last month when we were Elking in the WK, it WAS hot, but, in 2006, we were frozen on Sept. opener by that ferocious storm that blacked out Cranbrook, Fernie and made the roads a real bitch to drive on.

Maybe, something could work along those lines, I favour the MAXIMUM access for the average guy as long as it does not negatively impact on the population levels and I do not believe it would.

[bearass]

Oh yeah, forgot to add,carrying capacity,killer winters, 1996,dieoffs. more tough concepts, when the next dieoff comes and all of your horded 6pts and 4 spike mulies starve, there will be no Ray Demarchi to blame .. this time. :smile:


Not to worry all the experts are calling for global warming :lol:

[GoatGuy]

Oh boy, if elk is going to open on august 15th I better just call the divorce lawyer now and get it over with.


I'm sure glad my GF likes hunting. Aug 15th would be a perfect excuse to combine a horse trip with a bit of glassing and hunting when the weather's nice.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I'll be the guy on the ATV when the road closures get removed

[GoatGuy]

I'll be the guy on the ATV when the road closures get removed

You and the dude will be tight then.

[Bugle M In]

I've hunted elk in the EK's for the past 25 years.

1) I support the road closures for the most part, as I enjoy the hikes and the solitude that comes with it, although some signs could possibly be moved further in at some places, to allow a reasonable amount of distance to be hiked to get to some areas, and not just preserve (Reserve ) it for the GO's.

2) The biggest difference from my experience over the years (and it was good change), was the removal of the cow tags.
In the late 80's and most of the 90's, I would rarely see a cow elk all week, which I found made hunting bulls easy...one or 2 bugles...throw in a few cow calls and bang. ( all but 2 out of the 12 were 6 pts.!!)
Then things changed ( reg changes )....cows started to show up, and the bugles stopped bringing in the bulls.
Instead of coming in, the bulls left with their cows...to the timber.

Personally, I don't think they need to make it 3 pt, but, a 5 pt or better would be fine.
It would allow meat hunters better opportunities and it would help on some of those 5 pt's that were shot and then left to rot.

The end result of these new changes, probably would be that most hunters would focus in on the satellite bulls, thus leaving the 6pt to breed, rather then trying to chase him down for 5 days.

And as for trophy hunters, well their selective anyways!!

As long as there is a healthy amount of cows in the valleys, and with all the pine beetle logging in the Koots, the herds should be sustainable for a long time.

I supported the 6 pt for many years as I beleive major steps were needed to bring back the elk #'s.....the numbers from what I see look much, much better now, and habit ( logging ) has improved it even further.

As for dates, they could leave them as they are ( my opinion ), but earlier dates would probably be most beneficial to the locals in the EK's.
I only can book for a week anyways, so for hunters like me, it doesn't matter really, but for locals, they would have a few extra weekends to hunt.

The main group that I see and hear from for the past few years, that still want 6 pt season only, are the GO's and their clients, and lets face it, Money is first there when it comes to the GO's,.. and their clients???, what opinion should they have??? their just woried that 5 G's won't buy them the " Monster " anymore....as if it really ever did!!!

The one thing that I do read from these posts, no matter which side of the fence you sit on, is that all seem to agree the number of elk are up!!

I am an elk hunter first, before any other species here in BC, and consider the beautiful EK's my second home, and I do care about the wildlife there ( especially the elk ), and wouldn't agree to these changes if it would cause negative effects.....but major changes in the past were made so as to at some point in the future (possibly now), would allow for better hunting opportunities and chances once again, for "all types of hunters".

[Fisher-Dude]

In order to agree or disagree with the proposed changes one must decide what kind of hunting experience you want. This will never be consistent amongst all hunters. Do you like to get into elk every time you go out and only shoot a 6 point every couple years, or do you want to kill a bull every year for a short period of time then wait until the elk numbers are back up?Just one example IMO.


Sounds like a bunch of guides and outfitters on here.

Hunters will never reduce the population like you imply.

Keeping thr way things are right now will lead to a mass die off. That is what happened last time and will happen again.

This guy just signed up. Messerli is the surname - outfitters?

Ahh, the power of search engines on the intraweb, I love it! :razz:

BCR is 100% right. We can let the ravens and coyotes fatten up with a massive winter die off like we had the last time, or we can manage the elk population for a healthy herd and a sustainable harvest with a 3 point or better season. The 6 point season has proven to be very detrimental to herd health and genetics in the other North American jurisdictions where it has been used over the longer term. Why is this concept so hard for some to grasp?

It was understood that the implementation of the 6 point season in the late 90s was TEMPORARY to rebuild the herd numbers ONLY after the winter die off in 96/97.

[hunter1947]

I think thats a great idea in some ways http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon3.gif.
The few things I don't like is the open season for mule deer ,I would like the regs to stay the same in region 4 .

Also I would like to see a 2 week only season for 3 point bull elk or a 5 point or better season in most regions in the EK..

It would be to long of a season for senior and junior season ,I would agree on the season opening Aug 25 and not on Aug 15 as for the season for them close Sept 5 ,it would be to long of a season for senior junior Aug 15 to the 10 of Sept..

[bayou]

Sounds like a bunch of guides and outfitters on here.

Hunters will never reduce the population like you imply.

Keeping thr way things are right now will lead to a mass die off. That is what happened last time and will happen again.
Sounds more like a bunch of wannabe bios on here to me. You better be careful as well for the spelling and grammer police might come after you.

[Devilbear]

I see that you are up to your usual trolling tactics, eh, boy? You did not post your thoughts on this issue on the last thread concerned with it, as you SAID YOU WOULD, so, I am very sceptical about any of your posts now.

I do not claim to be a RPBio., however, I DO have some university biology with high marks, my lowest was a B+ and I also have more than 100 wildlife biology texts here at home, which I frequently refer to. I may make errors, every human does, but, you do not post anything other than sneering, illiterate jabs at other posters who actually ARE trying to express their honest opinions.

The ...wannabe... on this thread is you.

[Ltbullken]

You don't hunt elk here but you are an expert !!!!!!!
Now its me that is shaking my head . I don't milk cows but i think i should be on the dairy congress lol. Again give your head a shake.

You got it right! Geographical distance from the EK is indirectly proportional to one's knowledge of the subject.

[LYKTOHUNT]

Clint,
Bighornbob is correct. Ut and Az have their archery elk seasons start Aug 15. Nv actually starts their archery season Aug 1. Hell of a lot hotter there than here and the stick and string guys down there ain't complaining. I'd like to see an Aug 15 opener from archery muleys as well. Ut, Az, Nv, CO, and a bunch of other states all start then. Wouldn't it be a blast to hit some of BC's remote highcountry without worry of the sevre weather that hits the beggining of Sept. The southern highcountry is the most under utilized hunt in this province because the seasons are set for failure. It becomes a life and death struggle just to stay warm and not be blown off the mountain than the joyous experience hunting the alpine could be. Think Aug 15, go in ultra light, a lightweight bag and a tarp and the lightness of a bow instead of rifle. That would make me give up the rifle and give up late season muleys in a heartbeat.
I have not done alot of high mountain hunting but I did get an opportunity to do a horse back trip this year Sept 5 and I agree the area that we were in aprox 8000 ft level was a struggle wiith wind rain and snow everyday. I know some of you will say thats part of the deal ,suck it up but for me it sure would have been nice to have been there a little earlier and not to be cold, wet and wind blown everyday. I enjoyed the trip anyways but some days it did feel like a survival adventure.

[Savage Man]

You got it right! Geographical distance from the EK is indirectly proportional to one's knowledge of the subject.

That is like me saying that I have knowledge of of the moose herd in northern B.C.. I am not their so I can't comment . Get the picture!!!!

[Devilbear]

I have hunted, worked and lived alone in the northern BC wilderness, beginning in 1972 and, while I now live in Vancouver, I can read MOE reports and talk with friends living there, so, I have SOME knowledge of the sitution there.

To say that only those in a given geographical area "know" the game situation in it, is an over-simplification and is not correct. Learning is, or should be, a lifelong process and one can learn in a variety of ways, as the internet demonstrates.

Savage Man, what exactly do you do for a living, or, are you a kid living at home and perhaps "parroting" what you hear from others? No offence meant, but, you do not seem to have much information on Elk biology and I wonder just how much field experience you do have?

[GoatGuy]

Sounds more like a bunch of wannabe bios on here to me. You better be careful as well for the spelling and grammer police might come after you.


He is a bio. :oops:

[Devilbear]

WHO is a bio?

[GoatGuy]

WHO is a bio?

One of the members of the board that Bayou whines about.

[Ddog]

has anyone actually filled out the form? did you guys put in your thoughts on the seasons they are proposing, the worst one in the whole thing is the WT deer season they are proposing, and antlerless season for gun for 6 weeks. WTF is that all about, that would decimate the population. same with mulie season, leave it alone, i agree with opening the west kootenay for 6 point or better bull elk. everything else should be just fine, I do not understand why they would want to make so many changes.
FOLLOW THE LINK ON PAGE 1 AND PUT IN YOUR OPINION

[GoatGuy]

has anyone actually filled out the form? did you guys put in your thoughts on the seasons they are proposing, the worst one in the whole thing is the WT deer season they are proposing, and antlerless season for gun for 6 weeks. WTF is that all about, that would decimate the population.

You based your decision on what?

[Everett]

I will spell this out in simple terms for you kids. Its all about winter range. Presently the ELK in the trench are pretty close to %100 of the carrying capacity of the range. Forest encroachment of the grasslands is the real problem. If the growth of the Elk herd is not stopped one early hard winter after a hot summer will knock the herd back to 97/98 levels.
If any of you have been out in the trench this fall you will know how bad of shape the wintering areas are in this year. If we get an epic winter like 96/97 when it snowed for 22 straight days in Fernie in December this is all going to be moot.
One thing people are missing is there will be a lot less out of region hunters in the EK next year for ELK because all the WK guys will stay home to hunt and a percentage of OK and LML hunters will head the WK insead of EK. Hell some of the EK locals will be headed to the WK to try there hand at a big bull.
Oh and you don`t have to be a BIO to figure this out all the reports and studies are on the BC govt. web site so as long as you can read you can see it for your self in black and white.

[Everett]

has anyone actually filled out the form? did you guys put in your thoughts on the seasons they are proposing, the worst one in the whole thing is the WT deer season they are proposing, and antlerless season for gun for 6 weeks. WTF is that all about, that would decimate the population. same with mulie season, leave it alone, i agree with opening the west kootenay for 6 point or better bull elk. everything else should be just fine, I do not understand why they would want to make so many changes.
FOLLOW THE LINK ON PAGE 1 AND PUT IN YOUR OPINION

The idea is to decimate the WT population they need to be knocked back.

[BCrams]

has anyone actually filled out the form? did you guys put in your thoughts on the seasons they are proposing, the worst one in the whole thing is the WT deer season they are proposing, and antlerless season for gun for 6 weeks. WTF is that all about, that would decimate the population. same with mulie season, leave it alone, i agree with opening the west kootenay for 6 point or better bull elk. everything else should be just fine, I do not understand why they would want to make so many changes.
FOLLOW THE LINK ON PAGE 1 AND PUT IN YOUR OPINION

I am filling the forms out and sending it in. There are a couple proposed changes I do have more questions about but in general, support most of them because I know it will be good for the populations, and more opportunity for hunters, getting more hunters back out buying tags, and believe it or not, these proposed changes actually will promote and give more opportunity for trophy hunters who are selective in their harvest.

The antlerless season for WT deer will not decimate the population. One just needs to look at Saskatchewan where they have a season long 2 deer limit. 1 buck and 1 antlerless. You will never decimate WT deer via hunting seasons and it is known the WT population is a little high for the Kootenays.

I love this coffee shop banter and mentality of hunters who think they know what will happen to the deer / elk populations.

[boxhitch]

I am filling the forms out and sending it in. There are a couple proposed changes I do have more questions about but in general, support most of them because I know it will be good for the populations, and more opportunity for hunters, getting more hunters back out buying tags, and believe it or not, these proposed changes actually will promote and give more opportunity for trophy hunters who are selective in their harvest. X2 Why argue against something that is sustainable and will offer more opportunity ?
The idea that enough hunters will be successful to "decimate" any population is pooor also. After the roadside harvest is over, there will still be lots of pregnant cows.



Oh and you don`t have to be a BIO to figure this out all the reports and studies are on the BC govt. web site so as long as you can read you can see it for your self in black and white.
Anyone can form a narrow vision of things, not all take the time for mind-expanding

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I recently switched to A&W banter - the best there is. Fine discussion about weather, fuel economy, and wildlife - by experts.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

No not satire I lived thru it it was aweful and no other factors caused this do your home work please. Please leave things the way they are we have lots of Elk now and hunting is alot of fun. This is comong from a guy who just got home at the end of elk season with tag soup, but I had alot of great bugling and many chances which didn't happen in the early 90's.


So, you don't believe anything that anyone is posting, I was wondering, with your great knowledge of E Koot elk history, if you could please answer some questions for us???

Let's go back before the bad winter of 96/97 and before Demarchi was ORDERED to reduce the elk herds in the early 90's.........Back to when elk hunting was so great that you described.............

1) What were the antler restrictions that led to such great herd numbers and how long were those restrictions in place??

2)How long were those seasons..that led to such great elk numbers???

3) How many elk hunters were there back then....that led to such great elk hunting????

You keep telling us to "give our heads a shake" and believe me, after reading your posts on this subject, there are a lot of people shaking their heads...and scratching them too:???:.


SSS

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I recall there used to be two tags available for elk. Spikers were open. Most guys shot thier elk within a few miles of home and could load them into a big car (remember those fine machines?). And yes, there were many more hunters killing elk than there is today. Everybody got an elk.

The province should also increase efforts that improve winter range. Damn brush is getting pretty thick these days. Burn it.

I heard this at A and W the other day;)

[rocksteady]

Some of the changes are acceptable, however some I am concerned about.

1) I personally do not believe that we should be harvesting mule deer does, I do not believe the population is that strong in most areas.

2) I agree with dropping the aggregate bag limit of one WT and 1 Muley..(with the exception of late season Wt antlerless archery harvest)...My wife HATES mule deer meat and if I do not harvest a muley buck, great, hopefully tehy will breed the does and replenish the population.

3) I feel the 6 week antlerless WT season, when also combined with any WT buck, would be an "Its brown and its down" mentality...This could cause inadvertant shooting of mule deer and even elk, by accident.....

4) I would rather see an expanded LEH for harvesting of WT does...At least it shows some potential of "Managing" the species, not just a wide open 6 weeks, where we could overharvest in one season with no way to step cautiously, but forward, like we could using LEH...If an area is overpopulated, allow someone to get 2 LEH doe tags for WT????

5) Expanding the jr./Sr. season from 10 to 20 days...I have seen a lot of complaints on here regarding those folks not being able to find one of those round heads during the jr/sr season...From what I saw the pressure caused the elk to go purely nocturnal after the first couple days....Would a 20 day season eliminate that???? Maybe bump up theelevation range a bit more, say 1200 m????

6) I like the thought of 6 LEH seasons in the ag belt. If the timing of the elk coming in and raiding the ranchers hay stack is in December, lets harvest a few in the winter and maybe get the herds to go away for a few days or so....


Thats all of the top of my head....

I have had this discussion/debate with others last year and got raked pretty hard, so heres my opinion and I do not plan to debate further...:shock:

[GoatGuy]

I recently switched to A&W banter - the best there is. Fine discussion about weather, fuel economy, and wildlife - by experts.

It's the best kind. I'm sure you'll run into Bayou down there.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I'll have to turn up my hearing aids and listen for him in between bites.

[Savage Man]

I have hunted, worked and lived alone in the northern BC wilderness, beginning in 1972 and, while I now live in Vancouver, I can read MOE reports and talk with friends living there, so, I have SOME knowledge of the sitution there.

To say that only those in a given geographical area "know" the game situation in it, is an over-simplification and is not correct. Learning is, or should be, a lifelong process and one can learn in a variety of ways, as the internet demonstrates.

Savage Man, what exactly do you do for a living, or, are you a kid living at home and perhaps "parroting" what you hear from others? No offence meant, but, you do not seem to have much information on Elk biology and I wonder just how much field experience you do have?

I am glad that you are an expert , I have never claimed to be one but I do have field experience as I live here and spend alot of time in the bush not in VAN.. But like you I am not a Bio. . As for parrotting I am in my late thirties and have my own views but what makes you so much smarter than me it sounds to me like you parrott what your friends are telling you about the northern moose herd.

Just to clear one thing up I am not a opposed to changing the regulations, just to opening up a 3 point season. If we had a three point season this year I would have harvested an elk on my first morning out and I bet a large percentage of the hunters out there would have harvested too. . If we are in fact close to carrying capacity which is up for debate then i have no problem with more cows being harvested, but why do we need to slaughter our young bulls.

Now I now the next thing that is going to be said is that I am a trophy hunter and although I do like horns I kill the first 6 point that I see. I dont consider a little rag horn 6 to be a wall hanger but I would shoot him for the meat, but at least we gave him a chance to mature and we don't have a bunch of inmature bulls doing all the breading.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Savage Man, once you get over your antler fetish I guarantee that you will enjoy hunting that much more. There is so much that a man fails to see if his only concern is a big rack. Personally, I cant stand the taste of worn down, pissed upon, rutting bull elk - but that is just me.

[koothunter]

BC Rams, BC in no way can be compared to Sask because 95% of BC is crown land and Sask is nearly opposite of that. Access to hunt in Sask is way more restricted.

To everyone else.
Opening up a general season is not the only option! I think that if some 3pts (mulie or elk) need to be thinned then it should be on LEH so that it is more regulated. I do agree that genetics need to be managed better or all that will be left is 3pt mulies and 5pt elk.

As for listening to the "bio" reports. Look at who is paying the bio to collect data. The alberta grizzly #'s are a prime example. There are way more than they say.

I hunted lots for elk in the EK this year and didn't get anything. What ever happened to just the enjoyment getting out hunting. If you have to kill something every season (hence the 3pt season and general WT doe season) then you need to relax and enjoy life a little more.

[GoatGuy]

Just to clear one thing up I am not a opposed to changing the regulations, just to opening up a 3 point season. If we had a three point season this year I would have harvested an elk on my first morning out and I bet a large percentage of the hunters out there would have harvested too. . If we are in fact close to carrying capacity which is up for debate then i have no problem with more cows being harvested, but why do we need to slaughter our young bulls.

Now I now the next thing that is going to be said is that I am a trophy hunter and although I do like horns I kill the first 6 point that I see. I dont consider a little rag horn 6 to be a wall hanger but I would shoot him for the meat, but at least we gave him a chance to mature and we don't have a bunch of inmature bulls doing all the breading.

We don't need to slaughter young bulls, we harvest them to feed ourselves.

If you're shooting a raghorn 6 pt what exactly is the difference between shooting that and a 3 pt? I'd say let the 6 pt walk so he can grow up and harvest a 3 pt - he'll taste better. Looks like you're the one slaughtering young bulls.

The age of the bulls doing the breeding makes no difference for elk.

Squibb found that yearling and mature male elk were equally capable of breeding cows in estrus. That's old research 1985 - we've known that for a lonnggggggggg time. The egg doesn't care how old the sperm is, just as long as there's swimmers in there.

[GoatGuy]

BC Rams, BC in no way can be compared to Sask because 95% of BC is crown land and Sask is nearly opposite of that. Access to hunt in Sask is way more restricted.

To everyone else.
Opening up a general season is not the only option! I think that if some 3pts (mulie or elk) need to be thinned then it should be on LEH so that it is more regulated. I do agree that genetics need to be managed better or all that will be left is 3pt mulies and 5pt elk.

As for listening to the "bio" reports. Look at who is paying the bio to collect data. The alberta grizzly #'s are a prime example. There are way more than they say.

I hunted lots for elk in the EK this year and didn't get anything. What ever happened to just the enjoyment getting out hunting. If you have to kill something every season (hence the 3pt season and general WT doe season) then you need to relax and enjoy life a little more.

Access to hunt in Sask has nothing to do with the actual kill. Most farmers in Sask are more than willing to let hunters hunt their land and will actually tell you where to go. Also the science tells us the only time wt's are really 'vulnerable' is in areas with high sightability.

Yes LEH for mule deer bucks and bull elk. Best idea I've heard yet.

People don't have to kill but if there's a big surplus of wildlife why wouldn't we eat it?

[Devilbear]

I am glad that you are an expert , I have never claimed to be one but I do have field experience as I live here and spend alot of time in the bush not in VAN.. But like you I am not a Bio. . As for parrotting I am in my late thirties and have my own views but what makes you so much smarter than me it sounds to me like you parrott what your friends are telling you about the northern moose herd.

Now I now the next thing that is going to be said is that I am a trophy hunter and although I do like horns I kill the first 6 point that I see. I dont consider a little rag horn 6 to be a wall hanger but I would shoot him for the meat, but at least we gave him a chance to mature and we don't have a bunch of inmature bulls doing all the breading.

I regularly go to the northern areas of BC, as in last month and have for nearly 40 years; this entailed working alone in some of the most isolated regions all over the north, sometimes, for three straight months without a break. I was an "honours biology" student, however, I am not a RPBio. So, while I do not and have never said that I am an "expert", I have a substantial amount of experience to base my opinions on.

The "immature" or "satellite" bulls DO a LOT of the breeding, as you would realize if you had all of the field experience that you claim. My ...friends..., as you refer to them, ARE working, professional wildlife bios., fisheries bios. and RPFs. Quite frankly, my friend, given that I both worked with and frequently discuss these topics with these people, I do consider such opinions valid.

I suggest that you re-consider your opinions and do a bit more research before being so adamant about this topic; I admire your fervour and concern and share it, but, I think that your "solution" is not correct.

[koothunter]

By LEH I mean that 6pt and better elk and 4pt and better mulie should stay general, but 3-5pt elk and 3pt or less mulie should be on LEH.

[GoatGuy]

By LEH I mean that 6pt and better elk and 4pt and better mulie should stay general, but 3-5pt elk and 3pt or less mulie should be on LEH.
As I said:

"Yes LEH for mule deer bucks and bull elk. Best idea I've heard yet."

That's sarcasm........................................... ......

[BCrams]

[quote=koothunter;534447]BC Rams, BC in no way can be compared to Sask because 95% of BC is crown land and Sask is nearly opposite of that. Access to hunt in Sask is way more restricted.

Access to private land is really easy. Simple as walking up to a door and knocking. Plus theres lots of crown land once you hit the fringe country. Some of them tell you to shoot them all because they don't like them.

In the Kootenays, you don't have the sightability GG talks about like you do in the prairies and those deer are doing quite well with just patch brush. Here in BC, we're growing whitetailed deer which die of old age while expanding their range.



Opening up a general season is not the only option! I think that if some 3pts (mulie or elk) need to be thinned then it should be on LEH so that it is more regulated. I do agree that genetics need to be managed better or all that will be left is 3pt mulies and 5pt elk.

LEH isn't required.

[Savage Man]

I regularly go to the northern areas of BC, as in last month and have for nearly 40 years; this entailed working alone in some of the most isolated regions all over the north, sometimes, for three straight months without a break. I was an "honours biology" student, however, I am not a RPBio. So, while I do not and have never said that I am an "expert", I have a substantial amount of experience to base my opinions on.

The "immature" or "satellite" bulls DO a LOT of the breeding, as you would realize if you had all of the field experience that you claim. My ...friends..., as you refer to them, ARE working, professional wildlife bios., fisheries bios. and RPFs. Quite frankly, my friend, given that I both worked with and frequently discuss these topics with these people, I do consider such opinions valid.

I suggest that you re-consider your opinions and do a bit more research before being so adamant about this topic; I admire your fervour and concern and share it, but, I think that your "solution" is not correct.

Well I do agree that satalite bulls do a percentage of the breading you will see that i said young bulls would be doing all the breading. Again I am here not in Van. or the okanogan and spending time afield.

As for what i said about knowledge of moose up north I dont live and spend my time their so I can't comment on this area unlike some of you armchair bios. who role in here for 1-2 weeks a year but seem to know it all . This is my last post on this topic as I will agree to disagree with you.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

How come nobody want to talk about use of helicopter and snowmobiles for wolf control?

And controlled burn for winter range grass? Maybe even some seeding on the clear cuts.

And reduced access restrictions?

These are relevant topics IMHO.

Legislation of seasons and regulations is the easy stuff.

[BCrams]

Hey Rock,

Just one thing on comment 3.



3) I feel the 6 week antlerless WT season, when also combined with any WT buck, would be an "Its brown and its down" mentality...This could cause inadvertant shooting of mule deer and even elk, by accident.....

Thats painting a lot of hunters with a broad brush. I would think the majority are ethical and make sure they're sure of their target before pulling the trigger. Always a couple bad apples but the benefit of reducing the wt population is needed (and I doubt even this 6 week doe season will achieve it).



4) I would rather see an expanded LEH for harvesting of WT does...At least it shows some potential of "Managing" the species, not just a wide open 6 weeks, where we could overharvest in one season with no way to step cautiously,

LEH has never been wildlife management.

Given the very nature of whitetailed deer's habitat preference, I doubt an overharvest will occur. You may see less in the 'fields / cutblocks' during the day but its not because they're overharvested.

5)
Expanding the jr./Sr. season from 10 to 20 days...I have seen a lot of complaints on here regarding those folks not being able to find one of those round heads during the jr/sr season...From what I saw the pressure caused the elk to go purely nocturnal after the first couple days....Would a 20 day season eliminate that???? Maybe bump up theelevation range a bit more, say 1200 m????

And here I thought people on the boards were saying it was going to be a slaughter :smile: The same thing will happen with wt deer.



I have had this discussion/debate with others last year and got raked pretty hard, so heres my opinion and I do not plan to debate further...:shock:[/QUOTE]

No raking over coals. Just added perspective to think about. Its not all that bad really as some people are making it out to be.

[rocksteady]

[quote=RiverBoatFantasy;534476]
And controlled burn for winter range grass? Maybe even some seeding on the clear cuts.
quote]

This is occurring in places across the province, however easier said than done, trying to make everything happen during a certain burn window, where results will be achieved, not just made black.....

Search the Ecosystem Restoration program of the Ministry of Forests and Range..

[boyd050]

One theme that seems to be missed in this thread is that alot of the pressure for change to specifically the Elk season here in the EK comes from the East Kootenay ranchers association, they are very vocal on their position of less elk more range for the cattle , frankly if you ask them they would love to see the majority of elk here gone. I certainly do not agree with them whatsoever... period. but they have ears in victoria and unlike the majority of us hunters rally government on an ongoing basis. so if you really are concerned , then write, don't just jabber as we all tend to do, just my two cents, as for the changes, I'm going to spend more time reading and checking stats and listening to anyone who has an opinon before I put my preferences in print.

[BCrams]

Just to clear one thing up I am not a opposed to changing the regulations, just to opening up a 3 point season. If we had a three point season this year I would have harvested an elk on my first morning out and I bet a large percentage of the hunters out there would have harvested too.

If we are in fact close to carrying capacity which is up for debate then i have no problem with more cows being harvested, but why do we need to slaughter our young bulls.

Now I now the next thing that is going to be said is that I am a trophy hunter and although I do like horns I kill the first 6 point that I see. I dont consider a little rag horn 6 to be a wall hanger but I would shoot him for the meat, but at least we gave him a chance to mature and we don't have a bunch of inmature bulls doing all the breading.

I'm confused. If you're a trophy hunter, why would you and your friends drop a 3 pt bull?

If you shoot the first raghorn 6 pt, you might as well shoot the first 3 pt for better eating and let that raghorn perhaps get bigger for those guys who truely are trophy hunters and are selective about how big their bull will be before pulling the trigger.

This 3 pt season actually will benefit the true trophy hunters and instead of raghorn 280-300 bulls taken, you will see an increase of 300+ bulls.

Reality is, most people are meat hunters first. Let them hunt 3 pt plus bulls and the minority trophy hunters will continue to hold out for 6 point bulls. It is typically these hunters that will go the extra mile anyways to go where the meat hunters won't.

Research has already shown 6 pt seasons are more detrimental to trophy quality over time versus harvesting over a broad range of age classes.

Nothing wrong with immature bulls doing some of the breeding!

[koothunter]

[quote=RiverBoatFantasy;534476]
And controlled burn for winter range grass? Maybe even some seeding on the clear cuts.
quote]

This is occurring in places across the province, however easier said than done, trying to make everything happen during a certain burn window, where results will be achieved, not just made black.....

Search the Ecosystem Restoration program of the Ministry of Forests and Range..


Also people crying about air quality.

RBF As for reduced access restrictions, get off your quad and walk. There are lots of places for people to road hunt!

[BCrams]

Also people crying about air quality.

RBF As for reduced access restrictions, get off your quad and walk. There are lots of places for people to road hunt!

Any place where a Guide Outfitter is permitted to use a key to access backcountry areas in road closure areas for their equipment and clients should be under review and opened up for resident hunter access as well.

If a guide outfitter has 30km to get to his camp, he should be required to be in the same boat as residents, which is likely using up a full day's horseback ride on the road. If he can drive equipment and clients in, then residents should have that same privelege.

[GoatGuy]

RBF As for reduced access restrictions, get off your quad and walk. There are lots of places for people to road hunt!

Even more places to hike that are underused.

Other than a bunch of guides, a couple road hunters on horses and 2 guys hiking I haven't run into anybody in the last 4 years.

Hope I'll see some residents out using the backcountry this weekend.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

[quote=rocksteady;534482]


Also people crying about air quality.

RBF As for reduced access restrictions, get off your quad and walk. There are lots of places for people to road hunt!


Koothunter, (do not try to put words in Rock's mouth) I have no problem walking. I have a problem with packing all edible portions of a large elk over long distances. I am not Superman. Perhaps as you age a bit you will relate to my thoughts.

And please do not tell me to go buy a horse. That is not a viable option for many.

My desire is for increased hunter opportunity that is gained by increased access into formerly accessible drainages.

It has nothing to do with road hunting. It has to do with increased hunter opportunity, reasonable access and ease of retrieval.

Increased hunter opportunity is a good thing. Just ask the folks who supply goods and services to the hunters in BC. Food, fuel, vehicles, hunting gear, etc.

Cattle ranchers whining for increased range can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.

Air quality has never been better.

[koothunter]

[quote=koothunter;534490]

Any place where a Guide Outfitter is permitted to use a key to access backcountry areas in road closure areas for their equipment and clients should be under review and opened up for resident hunter access as well.

If a guide outfitter has 30km to get to his camp, he should be required to be in the same boat as residents, which is likely using up a full day's horseback ride on the road. If he can drive equipment and clients in, then residents should have that same privelege.

100% agreed!

RBF - I was hunting up the mountain on a road closure this fall and two guys were cruising an open road about 5km away and both got elk. One got one friday night and the other Saturday morning right off the road. So much for increased opportunity!

[koothunter]

Air quality is a concern with open burning, ever heard of venting indexes?

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Air quality is a concern with open burning, ever heard of venting indexes?

Yes, air quality could be a concern when debris piles are burnt during periods of increased timber harvest.

As for venting indexes, yes I am very familiar. It is why I light up my piles at night or on windy days:smile:

[RiverBoatFantasy]

[quote=BCrams;534496]

100% agreed!

RBF - I was hunting up the mountain on a road closure this fall and two guys were cruising an open road about 5km away and both got elk. One got one friday night and the other Saturday morning right off the road. So much for increased opportunity!

They must be great hunters. I love the anectodotal reports that are meaningless.

I will be sure to share that story at A&W.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Nice trick moderator! Switching up the names of quoted persons and then preventing an edit.

[koothunter]

[quote=RiverBoatFantasy;534500][quote=koothunter;534490]


My desire is for increased hunter opportunity that is gained by increased access into formerly accessible drainages.

It has nothing to do with road hunting. It has to do with increased hunter opportunity, reasonable access and ease of retrieval.

Increased hunter opportunity is a good thing. Just ask the folks who supply goods and services to the hunters in BC. Food, fuel, vehicles, hunting gear, etc.

Not sure if you remember what you write, but the point of my "anecdotal report" is that opening up road closures does nothing to increase hunter opportunity as seen in the story.

I have read other post from you RBF, you sound like a "pot-stirrer" and I have yet to hear a valid point or even a point for that matter.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So, you don't believe anything that anyone is posting, I was wondering, with your great knowledge of E Koot elk history, if you could please answer some questions for us???

Let's go back before the bad winter of 96/97 and before Demarchi was ORDERED to reduce the elk herds in the early 90's.........Back to when elk hunting was so great that you described.............

1) What were the antler restrictions that led to such great herd numbers and how long were those restrictions in place??

2)How long were those seasons..that led to such great elk numbers???

3) How many elk hunters were there back then....that led to such great elk hunting????

SSS

Savageman-Not trying to be important or anything but you didn't answer any of my questions. Some good answers may win some of us over.

SSS

[Islandeer]

I don't no about where you live but here the whitetails are like freakin rats, they are everywhere eating everything. :-P:razz:::smile:

Range Rats!! I will be there soon with my boys to cull a few for you. And count the plentiful elk. And MAYBE be fortunate enough to take a 4pt muley from the EK ... I do love the East Kootenay :smile::smile::smile:

[Islandeer]

So we are all very passionate about OUR EK big game, that is for sure.

Bottom line we need more of a hunting body to stay politically strong to fight for our hunting heritage. Reasonably more liberal seasons will encourage this. 6pt bull hunters will always find their animals, as will trophy mulie hunters.

Ranchers want fewer elk and whities grazing their crops. Whities are pushing out the mulies,according to Guiest. We all are seeing them way up in muley country.

So in the words of John Lennon, let's give the proposed Region 4 changes a chance.

See you atop my fav muley spot November 14th.:-P:-P:-P

[RiverBoatFantasy]

[quote=RiverBoatFantasy;534500][quote=koothunter;534490]


My desire is for increased hunter opportunity that is gained by increased access into formerly accessible drainages.

It has nothing to do with road hunting. It has to do with increased hunter opportunity, reasonable access and ease of retrieval.

Increased hunter opportunity is a good thing. Just ask the folks who supply goods and services to the hunters in BC. Food, fuel, vehicles, hunting gear, etc.

Not sure if you remember what you write, but the point of my "anecdotal report" is that opening up road closures does nothing to increase hunter opportunity as seen in the story.

I have read other post from you RBF, you sound like a "pot-stirrer" and I have yet to hear a valid point or even a point for that matter.

What story? The one where you state that two guys shot elk from a road?
Must have been up the Alexander Valley.

[koothunter]

My point exactly RBF. Thank you for confirming.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Well anyways I shall repeat and get this thread back on track:

I urge all hunters to fill out the comment form regarding the proposed regulation changes in region 4.

I fully support a GOS for 3 point elk and enhanced harvest opportunities for WT deer, goat.

I favour a longer rifle season for Elk and bighorn sheep that goes until at least Nov. 5

I support the removal of motor vehicle restrictions.

I support a spring and fall grizzly LEH season with at least a 20 fold increase in allotted tags.

I support winter range improvement where feasible and possible.

I support a wolf cull program

I support the immediate cancellation of all permits for non-trapping, non guide-outfitter, non-commercial cabins and immediate destruction of such cabins that are located upon public, tenured, or industrial land.

[Ltbullken]

That is like me saying that I have knowledge of of the moose herd in northern B.C.. I am not their so I can't comment . Get the picture!!!!

No, I don't. One does not have to live in an area to contribute informed opinion and debate on a subject.

[benbeckoutfitters]

ok this is the last reply im puttin on cause its to damn long lol
i am a 100% meat hunter for elk bottom line...yes it would be great to kill a 3 point bull BUT. lets go back to what hunters are actually called CONSERVATIONISTS....
how is killing every GD animal in the woods conservation?
be honest with yourselves and come to the realization that this has nothing to do with anyones better opportunties..its called a money grab..
ITS LIKE THIS STUPID ASS 2 POINT MOOSE SHIT/
lets knock down thos grizzs a lil bit and eradicate them wolves...
for the rest of the absolute crap you know where i stand..

thanks for the comments fellas very well appreciated maybe we should send this to the government ehhhh???lol see ya guys

[Devilbear]

I support the immediate cancellation of all permits for non-trapping, non guide-outfitter, non-commercial cabins and immediate destruction of such cabins that are located upon public, tenured, or industrial land.

NO, the cabins that SHOULD go ARE the GO and ...commercial...ones; would you torch "Butt's" or any of the FEW oldtime cabins remaining?

Your proposal would enhance the ability of the GOs to hunt more comfortably than we residents and that is NOT acceptable. I favour a "heritage" status for ALL old cabins all over BC, BUT, no more gawdam "ski lodges" such as that abortion up Baldface Creek near Nelson which was built where we used to hunt and fish....and at least one of those involved was a Yankee. THEY can get a "permit" to take a truck up there when WE cannot drive our vehicles on that road...same old, same old.

I also am REALLY pizzed about the GOs who can build huge "lodges" in wilderness areas, when our camping is, as it should be, restricted to mountain tents. I am one who fought for decades to preserve wilderness areas in the Kootenays and I damm well do not want Yankees hunting there or GOs building ANY structures there!

[Fisher-Dude]

ITS LIKE THIS STUPID ASS 2 POINT MOOSE SHIT/


What is stupid ass about allowing some people to hunt moose on a sustainable, low/no impact hunt?

[benbeckoutfitters]

lol one more comment on that..
i totally agree with the cabin thing pal thats crap you know about the road access thing your talking about i totaly agree with you on that thats not fair at all...theres a few places in the ek where its like that aswell theres a certian guide here thats trying to put a cabin in or so called cabin thats like an american texas deer huntn effn lodge its BS i dont agree at all what so ever thanks for that post pal good call

[eastkootsnucklesandwitch]

Devil Bear. You seem to me to be a little uneducated, or at the very least - lazy. Anna Fontanas' camp up the Elk has nothing to do with this conversation, nor does any other road closure in the east Kootenays. Also, the non-resident aliens that come to the Kootenays have just as much right to come here hunting as we do as residents of the area, just like we can purchase non-resident tags in the USA and go on a guided hunt. How do you figure these "areas" are essentially "out of bounds"? All you have to do is strap on a backpack, lace up your boots, buy a cheap resident elk, sheep, deer or bear tag and go for it. As far as the "proposed" regulation changes go... I say bullshit as well. The elk and mule deer herds are coming back, and I personally would love to keep the regs the way they are. If any changes to the elk regs are made, it should be only to hand out a couple dozen any bull tags, if you've spent any time up the elk or bull river drainages you would probably notice that their are single brow tine bulls running all around (which will probably never be a 6x6 bull). And as for the archery sheep hunt late in the season... I say yah and nah. On one side, every swingin dick with a bow will be in the winter regions trying to slaughter the lucky rams that make er through the rifle season, and on the other, I have a bow and a swingin dick. If the regulation changes do happen maybe i'll score too (after 15 sheep tags purchased and hunted unsucessfully). Bit of a rant, but now I'm done.

[benbeckoutfitters]

theres nothing wrong for us hunters but its a money grab man period nothing wrong with it on the conservation end of things at all..i totally agree with that but al it is is the govern,ent saying hmmm what else can we get 28 dollars from every other hunter out there??

[Fisher-Dude]

$28 is f all compared to the opportunity to hunt. I burn that much fuel driving to work in a week - a day moose hunting is a hell of a lot more fun than driving to work!

Why do you foresake the $28 that goes back into game management? If YOU can't stomach the cost of a tag (look at other jurisdictions in North America and come to grips with just how CHEAP ours are), don't buy one.

[benbeckoutfitters]

actually there fisher dude....i actually have a completely full book this year with 2 attachments with lehs and what have you that adds up to well over 100 bucks so no i dont have a problem with it all thanks for coming out though im looking at it at a entirely different view so if you cant see that then stop commenting on moose this isnt about moose its about reg changes es i did comment on it but merely for convo sakes.

[deer nut]

Nah, what we NEED is to STOP-BAN-END ALL repeat ALL "non-resident alien" hunting in the Kootenays, forthwith, and keep all our game for we resident hunters and share any we do not harvest with our fellow Canadian hunters, at a financial cost that working people can afford.

I do hope you are joking? Just because you are fortunate enough to live in the Kootenays gives you NO RIGHT to exclusive hunting & fishing in the area. Knowing the habitat better than out of towners should be enough advantage! Any licensed BC hunter has the same rights to hunt this area as a local resident!! :evil:

[benbeckoutfitters]

o by the way it doesnt all go to game managment both my parents work at the gov office for fish n wildlife and it also benifits them i assure you

[Devilbear]

I have attempted to keep my comments polite and based on personal experience throughout the Kootenays for 45+ years of hunting and wilderness work there. Now, some ...swingin' dick... tells me that I am ...lazy... and ...uneducated...; he then informs me that a non-resident hunter has the same right to hunt in the Kootenays that I do.

First of all, I WAS BORN in the Kootenays and NO non-resident has ANY rights anywhere in BC, by LEGISLATION. The typical comment of a GO's buttboy does NOT change what is MY birthright and your ignorant comments and illiterate manner of expressing them simply demonstrate that you are one who needs some "education".

I was backpacking in the Kootenays last month, have backpacked since 1956 and have spent a lot of time alone in the wilderness. I still backpack and will for years to come.

I imagine this character's surname begins with an "F"...........

Time for all GOs and foreign hunters to be banned from the Kootenays and their camps cleaned out.

[benbeckoutfitters]

well put devil

[Devilbear]

I do hope you are joking? Just because you are fortunate enough to live in the Kootenays gives you NO RIGHT to exclusive hunting & fishing in the area. Knowing the habitat better than out of towners should be enough advantage! Any licensed BC hunter has the same rights to hunt this area as a local resident!! :evil:

I have already posted exactly this in the first reply to BBOF on this thread. If, you re-read what I posted, you will see that I do not currently live in the Kootenays and also that I specifically stated that ALL BC hunters have an equal right to hunt in the Kootenays, so, we actually agree.

No worries, I am totally in favour of BC res. hunting and then other Canadians.

[deer nut]

I agree that resident hunters should take priority over non resident allocations, but by resident I mean, a resident of BC! You do not own the wildlife or the watersheds. Help conserve them but don't take your anger at GOs out on other legitimate resident (self-guided) BC hunters. WE HAVE JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO HUNT THE EK AS YOU DO!! And you never know, we might even be your allies.

[deer nut]

I have already posted exactly this in the first reply to BBOF on this thread. If, you re-read what I posted, you will see that I do not currently live in the Kootenays and also that I specifically stated that ALL BC hunters have an equal right to hunt in the Kootenays, so, we actually agree.

No worries, I am totally in favour of BC res. hunting and then other Canadians.

Sorry - we cross-posted. Guess we are on the same side after all. Some of your comments wouldn't be looked upon too favourably by the powers that be though. Try to chill a bit before you try and influence policy-makers or they will just shut you out. The $$ that guided hunting brings in will be hard to argue against, but resident hunters do more for conservation than anyone. This is a very tricky debate you've started here.....

[Devilbear]

I just SAID that I totally support and always have, EQUAL access to hunting-fishing for ALL BC residents. If, there is one thing I am known for on the 'net, it is my adamant defence of BC resident hunters over ALL others and then, our fellow Canucks next.

I would never say that ANY legal BC resident hunter has ANY less (or greater) rights ANYWHERE in our province than I do, the very idea is anathema to me. You misunderstand what I am saying here.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I do hope you are joking? Just because you are fortunate enough to live in the Kootenays gives you NO RIGHT to exclusive hunting & fishing in the area. Knowing the habitat better than out of towners should be enough advantage! Any licensed BC hunter has the same rights to hunt this area as a local resident!! :evil:

I'd advise you to go back and read his post slowly and carefully. And yup get rid of the guide outfitters in the EK also.

[Devilbear]

I began influencing policy-makers in 1961, when I was 15 years old and joined the BCFS at 18, in 1965. I am VERY well-versed in exactly how one goes about this and have had some success and I ain't finished yet.

I have spent many hours with various "boffins" in offices in Victoria, on my own time and dime and also had many articles published on wilderness conservation, but, not in the recent past.

The $$$$$ argument is a specious one and easily countered, what we REALLY NEED is to get the moderate "environmentalists" onside and I think that this can and must be done.

[deer nut]

I'd advise you to go back and read his post slowly and carefully.

Obviously s/t we're all passionate about. This got me instantly riled up! (Partly I guess because I am jealous of anyone who gets to live in the wildlife mecca that is the Kootenays). Hunting coastal blacktails just doesn't compare to elk & whitetails. (Now that statement should rile up some of my fellow coastal hunters!)

[bayou]

I see that you are up to your usual trolling tactics, eh, boy? You did not post your thoughts on this issue on the last thread concerned with it, as you SAID YOU WOULD, so, I am very sceptical about any of your posts now.

I do not claim to be a RPBio., however, I DO have some university biology with high marks, my lowest was a B+ and I also have more than 100 wildlife biology texts here at home, which I frequently refer to. I may make errors, every human does, but, you do not post anything other than sneering, illiterate jabs at other posters who actually ARE trying to express their honest opinions.

The ...wannabe... on this thread is you.
Well if you go back and read the post you mention I said when I have time. Now since you lied a couple times in that post I have to be careful how I say things Plus like I said there I dont know which personality I am talking to, devilbear, kutneay, dewey, deweybear, kutneaydevil who knows.Since you said spelling and grammer doesnt matter, then came unglued when there was some errors I will have to take my time and write that answer carefully then have it sent out and proof read etc this will take time and money, since you also say Im uneducated theres a chance I am also not that wealthy so you will have to bear with me.
Also in that big book collection of yours if theres one on nursery rhymes check out Sticks and stones.
And I just be I dont wanna nothing.

[bayou]

It's the best kind. I'm sure you'll run into Bayou down there.
Thats the best you can do.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

One thing that I have learned about the East Kootenay is this:

The myriad of rules, access restrictions, special favours, and closed areas has turned many of the the locals into people who prefer to act like backwoods secret police instead of being out enjoying hunting.

It has also caused many rifts amongst various user groups such as industry, ATV clubs, horsepersons, naturalists and fish and wild life clubs.

Quite frankly it is a riduiculous quagmire of whining, selfishness, self interest and bitterness.

Removal of the road restrictions would be a positive step in the right direction - for all backwoods users.

[bayou]

He is a bio. :oops:
Oh there is some very good bios in B.C. but there probably out there working etc not playing on the net.

[palmer]

Change yes but slowly....Open Whitetail doe one two weeks to start....Elk 3 point last week of season to start..Muile buck any size first week of season....Moose ..open 7 day season ...Imm or three on Palm...screw LEH and months for GOs to book clients....Goats and sheep...open as much as possible....OPEN ROAD closures....Way more LEH for GRIZZ....and kill some wolves.....Thaahts what I wrote...Time to open region 5 moose too..same week spread pressure

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Also, the proliferation of motorhead buffoons from Alberta has not helped. Many show greater respect while visiting the landfills in thier local communities than when motorizing in BC.

[77hunt]

need to thin out the 5 point elk and elk herds are at thier peak we dont want disease wipping the heards out. as for the mule population i would agree 4 or better is good the heards are just comming back from the 90's.

[SteadyGirl]

please Please Please Just Say "no" To Opening Road And Mine Closures

[Stone Sheep Steve]

please Please Please Just Say "no" To Opening Road And Mine Closures



okay horse girl...


SSS

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Open all road closures, increase hunting opportunity in the mine closed areas AND open up a long season for ANY cougar.

[Devilbear]

Now, now, there are a few " cougars" that you might want to see off-limits to hunting.............. ;)

[Gateholio]

Oh there is some very good bios in B.C. but there probably out there working etc not playing on the net.

I know for certain that some bios play on HBC. There are also a number of others in various wildlife occupations.

[SteadyGirl]

lame *yawns*

Leave the road closures, and I work in a mine so no thank you I don't want a bunch of you guys lurking around every boulder shooting randomly at whatever blinks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT will never happen anyway, not the mines at least too many safety issues~

[SteadyGirl]

We have heard from biosin this thread even:roll:

[Devilbear]

After, this illiterate and ignorant pos called me a liar, I simply put him on ignore. I find it quite interesting that the posters here who seem totally lacking in any reasonable ability to write basic English, are those with the strongest "pro" GO opinions and also tell us that they are often out in the bush.

My impression is that a couple of these buckos are probably "ringers" who are paid to post bullshit here by GOs who are not willing to "face the music" on this forum. I also think that their lack of the most basic literacy is reflective of their REAL bush skills and wildlife bio. expertise.......

[bayou]

After, this illiterate and ignorant pos called me a liar, I simply put him on ignore.Thats what you said last time and then came back. Lie #1 I find it quite interesting that the posters here who seem totally lacking in any reasonable ability to write basic English, are those with the strongest "pro" GO opinions and also tell us that they are often out in the bush.Thats strange for about every third post you tell us how much time you spend in the bush.
Saying you werent concerned about spelling, grammer etc Lie #2
My impression is that a couple of these buckos are probably "ringers" who are paid to post bullshit here by GOs who are not willing to "face the music" on this forum. I also think that their lack of the most basic literacy is reflective of their REAL bush skills and wildlife bio. expertise.......
Its best to stay on ignore and up the meds and admit defeat. Or learn to take responsabilty for what you print and be nice.

[bayou]

I know for certain that some bios play on HBC. There are also a number of others in various wildlife occupations.
Sorry I meant to say biologists probably not the bios your talking about.

[Gateholio]

Sorry I meant to say biologists probably not the bios your talking about.

I used the term "bio" as a shortened version of "wildlife biologist." I presumed that most people would easily comprehend that, but apparently I was incorrect.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[SteadyGirl]

LMAOohhhmuhyygawd

[KodiakHntr]

LMAOohhhmuhyygawd

Hadn't you asked the mods to pull your account?

[Gateholio]

Hadn't you asked the mods to pull your account?

It's very rare for us to delete an account unless a person gets banned. We leave it up to the individual to decide if they want to continue posting or not.

[SteadyGirl]

Hadn't you asked the mods to pull your account?


I gave it serious concideration, instead I just got a 1/2 Great Pyraneese 1/2 Anatolian Shepherd,(they are known for thier loyalty and willingness to die for thier owners) about a half dozen no tresspassing signs, and brinks home security system, plus a union rep to save my job. That about cover it for ya???? or would you like to come over and read my diary??:mad:

[Devilbear]

A Benelli Nova 12ga. pump with a mag. extender and tritium sights loaded with 00 buck would be a useful addition and a S&W 686 custom 7-shot .357Mag., full of 158 gr. "Gold Dots" would also be most useful....just sayin', I admire a woman who can deal with azzholes and defend herself.

[KodiakHntr]

or would you like to come over and read my diary??:mad:

Naw, I'm good...Doubt there would be much more there, than is already here....

[Fisher-Dude]

o by the way it doesnt all go to game managment both my parents work at the gov office for fish n wildlife and it also benifits them i assure you

Uh that makes, like, zero sense. I hope Jim doesn't read this because he will kung-fu your ass for missing the point.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Devil Bear. You seem to me to be a little uneducated, or at the very least - lazy. Anna Fontanas' camp up the Elk has nothing to do with this conversation, nor does any other road closure in the east Kootenays. Also, the non-resident aliens that come to the Kootenays have just as much right to come here hunting as we do as residents of the area, just like we can purchase non-resident tags in the USA and go on a guided hunt. How do you figure these "areas" are essentially "out of bounds"? All you have to do is strap on a backpack, lace up your boots, buy a cheap resident elk, sheep, deer or bear tag and go for it. As far as the "proposed" regulation changes go... I say bullshit as well. The elk and mule deer herds are coming back, and I personally would love to keep the regs the way they are. If any changes to the elk regs are made, it should be only to hand out a couple dozen any bull tags, if you've spent any time up the elk or bull river drainages you would probably notice that their are single brow tine bulls running all around (which will probably never be a 6x6 bull). And as for the archery sheep hunt late in the season... I say yah and nah. On one side, every swingin dick with a bow will be in the winter regions trying to slaughter the lucky rams that make er through the rifle season, and on the other, I have a bow and a swingin dick. If the regulation changes do happen maybe i'll score too (after 15 sheep tags purchased and hunted unsucessfully). Bit of a rant, but now I'm done.

You make much nonsense in this post and your name scares me.

[GoatGuy]

Oh there is some very good bios in B.C. but there probably out there working etc not playing on the net.

Maybe they're listening to their roofer tell them about wildlife management.:lol:

[PGK]

ok this is the last reply im puttin on cause its to damn long lol
i am a 100% meat hunter for elk bottom line...yes it would be great to kill a 3 point bull BUT. lets go back to what hunters are actually called CONSERVATIONISTS....
how is killing every GD animal in the woods conservation?
be honest with yourselves and come to the realization that this has nothing to do with anyones better opportunties..its called a money grab..
ITS LIKE THIS STUPID ASS 2 POINT MOOSE SHIT/
lets knock down thos grizzs a lil bit and eradicate them wolves...
for the rest of the absolute crap you know where i stand..

thanks for the comments fellas very well appreciated maybe we should send this to the government ehhhh???lol see ya guys

You are not even remotely qualified to comment publicly on wildlife management. You clearly have no education, no common sense and no grasp of any natural process whatsoever. I can't believe this thread has gone on so long with your utter garbage.

Why don't you ask questions. Instead of assuming you know everything.

[bayou]

Maybe they're listening to their roofer tell them about wildlife management.:lol:

Or a commercial pilot, or a business student or a communications and education liaison, or a wannabe biologist the list could go on and on a carpenter a store clerk, tim hortons server.
In there profession a biologist will hear points of view from people from many walks of life. Like I said there is some very good biologists in B.C. and some not so good and this is an opinion. Just like there findings it is there opinion, its just theres may in the end effect a lot of people, so they have to be able to accept critizium, and have a fairly open mind, some can some cant.

[eastkootsnucklesandwitch]

Devilbear...just to ease your childish mind, my surname does not start with an "F", although I have been friends with the family since childhood. You're a loser, and your bumbuddy Riverboatfantasy is no better. You say you spend so much time backpacking in the EK backwoods, yet every third comment on HBC are from you and your boyfriend. You must be a busy man. What did GO's do to you to inspire such hatred towards them...make you look and feel silly out in the bush somewhere? What do you doorknobs do in the line of employment... just to give me some profession to bitch about. Cityboy.

[SteadyGirl]

You are not even remotely qualified to comment publicly on wildlife management. You clearly have no education, no common sense and no grasp of any natural process whatsoever. I can't believe this thread has gone on so long with your utter garbage.

Why don't you ask questions. Instead of assuming you know everything.

1,994 posts since September of 08:roll:. I haven't seen ONE post from you that wasn't utter garbage ..


PLEASE JUST SAY NO TO OPENING ROAD CLOSURES .... THANK YOU xo

[Devilbear]

Devilbear...just to easy your childish mind, my surname does not start with an "F", although I have been friends with the family since childhood. You're a loser, and your bumbuddy Riverboatfantasy is no better. You say you spend so much time backpacking in the EK backwoods, yet every third comment on HBC are from you and your boyfriend. You must be a busy man. What did GO's do to you to inspire such hatred towards them...make you look and feel silly out in the bush somewhere? What do you doorknobs do in the line of employment... just to give me some profession to bitch about. Cityboy.


I could reply in kind, but, why sully this forum with comments such as yours. If, you ever grow up, which seems highly unlikely and get an education, so that you are able to debate rationally, I will discuss this issue with you. Until that happens, I suggest that you refrain from further comment here and stop making such a fool of yourself.

[mcrae]

I agree with the region 4 proposals in regards to an elk season,increased mule deer opportunity, and an open GOS on whitetail does. I am not sure about the LEH mule deer doe. This proposal will mean will mean greater hunting opportunity for everyone in region 4. I fully support any proposal that will increase hunting opportunity for RESIDENTS of BC....

It will spread hunting pressure more evenly through out the region. With the W.Koots getting an elk season thru out it will ease pressure on the E.Koots for sure.

This regional protectionism displayed by some is a bit disturbing to me. BC is a big province and there is plenty of room for everyone to play nice.

Road closures are fine with me as long as they apply to everyone. That includes GO,other users, and guys with disability permits. If they don't apply to everyone then get rid of them.

If we don't get more people involved with hunting thru increased opportunity I doubt very much 100 years from now people will be sitting around arguing about regional game limits. Simple fact is hunting is a way of life for most of us but its a way of life that is in danger of disappearing.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

1,994 posts since September of 08:roll:. I haven't seen ONE post from you that wasn't utter garbage ..


PLEASE JUST SAY NO TO OPENING ROAD CLOSURES .... THANK YOU xo

At least he does not appear to be selfish like others.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Thanks Mcrae55, you make good sense and it is a pleasure to read your comments. You are a very sensible person.

[Devilbear]

McCrae's is the best post on this thread and I totally concur. I am also a bit leery concerning MD does and would prefer to see them left as is as the changes take place.

I have been thinking about this all night and today I will send my comments to the Nelson office and perhaps call them as well. I think I knew the person listed as the contact and any polite and supportive calls will, IMO, help us to get a better situation than we have at present.

While "some" roads SHOULD be closed to ALL motor vehicles, there are TOO many situations where GOs and others, as I posted before, can obtain entry while WE are kept out. I am NOT going to watch some Yankee drive a 4x4 up a road which I worked on and hiked on starting over 50 years ago, when I and other BC-born people are denied access.

We now have an extensive wilderness parks system in BC and I was among the first advocates of this; I now think it is time to begin to lobby for "primitive areas" where all human and especially industrial activity are kept, by legislation, subordinate to the needs of wildlife and fish. Such areas should be used for hunting and fishing FIRST and while some logging would be beneficial, NO "grazing" and NO mining would be allowed.

The Kootenays has been SO impacted by industrial activities and often to profit foreign companies; it is high time that the people born in BC received the real, enduring benefits from that landscape and hunting, fishing, timber harvesting and some tourism are both sustainable and beneficial in the longterm.

[Savage Man]

Devilbear...just to ease your childish mind, my surname does not start with an "F", although I have been friends with the family since childhood. You're a loser, and your bumbuddy Riverboatfantasy is no better. You say you spend so much time backpacking in the EK backwoods, yet every third comment on HBC are from you and your boyfriend. You must be a busy man. What did GO's do to you to inspire such hatred towards them...make you look and feel silly out in the bush somewhere? What do you doorknobs do in the line of employment... just to give me some profession to bitch about. Cityboy.

Could not have said it better My self LOL hahaha!!!!

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Devilbear I am proud to be referred to as your bumbuddy and boyfriend.

I have yet to see a valid reason put forth by anyone to support the continuation of the large numbers of road closures in region 4.

The motorhead idiots from Alberta are another huge problem.

[Devilbear]

Savageman, as others here have posted, there seems to be very LITTLE that you CAN say, that is not better said by everyone else here, except you three GO "ringers". You are as illiterate, ignorant and totally bizarre in your comments here as "eastkootnucklesandwitch" and even "bayou" makes (slightly) more sense than you do.

So, mommy and daddy BOTH work for the F&W, do they? Geezleweze, what happened, were you a "blue baby"????