Spike-fork bull moose definition.

[zimbu]

I was chatting about immy moose with a guy at work today and he says if a bull has two tines on one side and three or more on the other side it's still considered immature. I tell him he's full of crap, so he pulls out the regs and shows me. Is he correct? Thanks to something called "set theory" he is correct.
"Moose-spike-fork bull means a moose having no more than two tines on one antler."
I have always interpreted this to mean that it cannot have more than two tines on one antler or the other antler. In other words, no more than two tines on each antler. But alas, the regulations do not say "each antler," but rather "one antler."

So, hypothetically, I shoot a moose with "no more than two tines on one antler" and eight tines on the other antler. Have I broken the law? Some people might think so.

Now consider this:
"Mule (Black-tailed) DEER-Four Points or Greater Buck- Means any buck having at least four tines, excluding the brow tine, on one antler."

I have always interpreted that to mean "four tines on one antler" regardless of whether or not the other antler has four tines, three tines, one tine, or exists at all. Am I wrong here?

So, if the regs mean at least four tines on one antler of a muley, regardless of how many or how few are on the other antler, then wouldn't a moose with a maximum of two tines on one antler be considered immature, regardless of how many or how few tines are on the other antler?:-?

As an aside, are you allowed to shoot an immature bull having only spikes and no forks?

I will be contacting the local CO regarding this, in the meantime please discuss. Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

[valleycowboy]

i believe that is why they changed the name from immature moose to spike-fork horn.
if a bull has two points on one side and a paddle on the other,it is a legal spike-fork horn......soooooo boom and enjoy the great steaks.
if your buddy does not agree with you,tell him to let the bull walk and tell you where he seen it:smile:.
as for mule deer...if it has 4 points above the brow on one side and three points or less on the other.....it is legal to shoot.
the regs are pretty straight forward on these issues.

[sawmill]

Good God man!I don`t know how it could be any clearer!
NO MORE THAN 2 POINTS ON ONE ANTLER=BANG!
4 POINTS ON ONE ANTLER(MULIE)=BANG!
Nowhere does it say " on one or the other antler."If so it would have said "On Either Antler"
You are going to complicate your self into an emty freezer if you screw around when and if you see one.
I`m getting real tired of this topic,it`s been done to death.:confused:

[Blainer]

Listen to your co-worker

[KodiakHntr]

Why would the exact same wording mean different things for different species?

I don't understand why this topic has to come up 78 different times in a season.

[Angel]

Why would the exact same wording mean different things for different species?

I don't understand why this topic has to come up 78 different times in a season.


Good God man!I don`t know how it could be any clearer!
NO MORE THAN 2 POINTS ON ONE ANTLER=BANG!
4 POINTS ON ONE ANTLER(MULIE)=BANG!
Nowhere does it say " on one or the other antler."If so it would have said "On Either Antler"
You are going to complicate your self into an emty freezer if you screw around when and if you see one.
I`m getting real tired of this topic,it`s been done to death.:confused:


lol :roll::roll:....... everyone seems to be a little on edge lately it feels like its a week before hunting season again.

[300wsm]

the idea of the regulation is to protect hunters from making a mistake if they can only make out one side. really clear in the regs.

300wsm

[BCrams]

Your friend is correct in harvesting such a bull moose. However, the bull with 2 points on one antler and 10 on the other would hardly be considered an 'immature' bull. There are some quirkly looking moose out there and if you saw one sporting a long spike on one side and a huge tri palmed antler on the other side ...... he's legal to shoot (even though we all know its a mature bull and not immature) Given that it has 2 points or less on one antler, he is still legal to shoot.

Likewise with mule deer, 4 points on one side no matter how many on the other side and he is legal.

[butthead]

we will talk about this more at work tonight
ok

[showoff70]

talked to a CO this weekend when we were pulled over in Boston Bar for a road check and asked him the same question caused I let an imm go last year cause I wasn't sure of one I let pass by, and he told me that as long as there's only two on one side its good to go no matter how the other side looks. But glass it really good and make sure it's not broken in the rut or shot off from a shitty hunter cause you will have to explain to the CO that you didn't break it off.

[boxhitch]

The word 'immature' is not used in the descriptions at all.
Just count the points...... simple .....no?


Why would the exact same wording mean different things for different species?

IF the wording were the same, it would mean the same. So thats why it is different wording.

Clearly, its not the wording of the regs that is the problem here......

[KodiakHntr]

IF the wording were the same, it would mean the same. So thats why it is different wording.

Clearly, its not the wording of the regs that is the problem here......

You missed my point. The OP was using the same wording from the regs, moose/mule deer, and interpreting it two different ways for two different species.

ie. "no more than two points on one antler" (moose) and "not less than 4 points on one antler" muleys...

Read the original post, and you'll see what I was referring to.

[zimbu]

Excellent. It seems everyone is on the same page here regarding "one antler" definition vs. my previous erroneous "either antler" interpretation. It's a dull day when a guy doesn't learn something new. It's even better when you learn something new that works in your favour.:biggrin: Thanks everyone for confirming that.

Now to my second question: Does "spike-fork bull" include a bull with only spikes and no forks?

[BCrams]

Now to my second question: Does "spike-fork bull" include a bull with only spikes and no forks?


Yes. With moose: 1x1, 2x1, 2x2, 2x3, 2x4, 2x10 etc are legal.

4 pt deer however, must have a minimum 4 pts on one antler or greater.

4x1, 4x2, 4x3, 4x4, 4x5, 4x6, 5x5, 6x8 etc to be legal.

[MuleyMadness]

Your friend is correct in harvesting such a bull moose. However, the bull with 2 points on one antler and 10 on the other would hardly be considered an 'immature' bull. There are some quirkly looking moose out there and if you saw one sporting a long spike on one side and a huge tri palmed antler on the other side ...... he's legal to shoot (even though we all know its a mature bull and not immature) Given that it has 2 points or less on one antler, he is still legal to shoot.

Likewise with mule deer, 4 points on one side no matter how many on the other side and he is legal.

That's why the regs no longer say immature....because immature isn't the determining factor anymore, it's how many points on one side...I mean let's be honest, size matters, especially when you're a bull looking to mate, and the law is intended to protect large prime mating bulls, not the bull the cow's look at and giggle at.

[landphil]

Now to my second question: Does "spike-fork bull" include a bull with only spikes and no forks?

Yes, if a spike OR a fork one ONE side (regardless of what the other side is), it's a shooter. As already mentioned, broken antlers may be good to avoid as it would be hard to convince a CO that you didn't break it youself, especially if it's a fresh break. Just be sure your "spike" bull is a bull and not a calf under the definitions in the regs, as some calves will have nubs as well, but still fall under the definition of a calf, and therefore not a spike-fork bull. Some may argue this last point, and it's been hashed over lots on here - I'm sure a little seach will find previous threads on this topic. Go stick a fork in that spike bull8)

[Prowler]

Wow... are there realy guys out there that cant figure this out? Scary.....

[curt]

The Regs Clearly Show A Definition Picture As Long As One Side Is Spike Fork Other Side Could Be Whatever Bare In Mind Browtines Count For This However .i Have Seen Many Spike Fork Bulls With A Single Browntine Antler Which By Definition Would Be Considered Mature.

[sparkes3]

how about a bull with one complete side busted off close to the skull.didnt look new but i let him walk didnt want the hassle the other side was 8-9 points in region three.

[tooty]

Bang.It's legal,done it before with 2 one side 5 on the other.No problem,legal by all definitions in the regs.

[sawmill]

Wow... are there realy guys out there that cant figure this out? Scary.....

I know, I can`t figure out how they ever passed the CORE.Or got a drivers license for that matter:shock:

[tootoowild]

its the wording he doesnt understand or how his stupid ass co-worker explained it. None the less, he is askin a question and half of you are freakin out on him. Its a simple question. its no wonder some dont ask questions. You all start acting like ya know it all...

[zimbu]

Wow... are there realy guys out there that cant figure this out? Scary.....

Actually, what's scary is the dickheads that run around the bush this time of year littering beer cans, shooting signs, pooping in the middle of the road, and shooting mature bull moose and leaving them in the bush to rot... all in the name of hunting.




I know, I can`t figure out how they ever passed the CORE.Or got a drivers license for that matter:shock:

I posted my question on HBC, not because I wish to be ridiculed, but rather because there are many experienced people here that are happy to share their wealth of knowledge. My question was regarding spike-fork bull moose, not immature bull sh*t, so keep it to yourselves.

For the record, I am now quite clear on what exactly a spike fork bull moose is. All of you can rest assured that I have not passed up a 2X3 bull due to my overly conservative misinterpretation, though I know someone who has. Thanks again for the helpful replies all.

[butthead]

its the wording he doesnt understand or how his stupid ass co-worker explained it. None the less, he is askin a question and half of you are freakin out on him. Its a simple question. its no wonder some dont ask questions. You all start acting like ya know it all...

please don't be calling me a stupid ass. remember iam the one that set him straight on this subject. no apologizes necessary.

[Prowler]

My intent was not to belittle or agrivate, I was just surprised that what seems to be a very clear, and consise description in the regulations still leaves people confused.

[bucket]

Wow... are there realy guys out there that cant figure this out? Scary.....

Prowler you'd think that "better safe than sorry" is a way better attitude for a question like this. Why bother shaming someone for wanting to ensure they are compliant and legal. This is a hell of a lot better than shoot first, ask questions later.

I've always taken an attitude of there is no such thing as a dumb question. That's what they are for. Unless its your wife asking you what the engine warning light means 3 months after its come on.

[Caveman]

For God's Sake People, The Term Immature Is No Longer Used

No more than two points on one side is all you need to see, then............................... BANG!!!!!



As others have posted, the bull can have 10 points on one side and two on the other, still legal. No very likely you'll see one, but the odd deformity is out there. Best weed it out of the gene pool anyway

[Mishka]

The guy wanted clarification on a regulation and some of you ridicule him for this. Way to support the hunting community.

[139grainsofhell]

[QUOTE=zimbu;532777]Actually, what's scary is the dickheads that run around the bush this time of year littering beer cans, shooting signs, pooping in the middle of the road.

pooping in the road , that's to funny I came across a guy doing this once he said he was extremly scared of bears!!!

like others have said spike fork = spike or fork on one antler just be carefull as that third point can be awfully hard to see sometimes .

[Caveman]

The guy wanted clarification on a regulation and some of you ridicule him for this. Way to support the hunting community.

Not trying to ridicule anyone, but this same question get raised every year at least three or four times. What I would like to see is the Regs add and extra drawing of a spike/fork with a palm on one side. Then maybe it would be clearer

[Rock Doctor]

4 year old thread, lol.

[Mishka]

LOL, that's hilarious

[Caveman]

Got me! I didn't even notice. They should bury these things. Jelvis is notorious for resurrecting his own old threads

[bucket]

Oh haha my bad. Just felt srry for the guy getting reamed :)

[daxz01]

Just wondering . If a moose has 3 points on one side and 3 the other side what would that make plus if the 2 branches are smaller than the main branch with no palms on either side,.?? is this still a spike fork? because the regs are unclear I think about this. i think if they made moose hunting LEH would clear things up. Wish they would do that.

[reach]

Just wondering . If a moose has 3 points on one side and 3 the other side what would that make plus if the 2 branches are smaller than the main branch with no palms on either side,.?? is this still a spike fork? because the regs are unclear I think about this. i think if they made moose hunting LEH would clear things up. Wish they would do that.
The regs are not unclear. There is a clear definition of a tine (at least 1" long, and longer than it is wide) and a clear definition of a spike fork (maximum of 2 tines on at least one side). 3 on each side = not spike fork.

[Xenomorph]

Just in case anyone is wondering, because I was today

Page 3-4 in the 2016-2018 regs
http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/regulations/2016-2018/hunting-trapping-synopsis-2016-2018.pdf


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