elk leh 4-22 zone x feedback/question

[Winder]

######## long version for those affected/interested in zone x leh elk first time hunting, short version in the end #########



It started with call to coordinator at 7am first day you had do it. Some guy said "you will definately get farm for whole duration of stay, no worries". We actually planned to do it more natural way (hiking and glassing) and to have farm ready as reserve spot, we explained it to that guy, he said it was fine.

Next call was made day before leaving for Kootenay and woman said there werent any farmers signed up for 4-22 and guy we talked month before that couldnt promise us any farm because he is her husband and he just registers people when they call. So according to her 3 of us listening to guy on speakerphone missheard his words. Yeah, right, we all heard stories about Christmass gifts for poor family. Well, no biggy, we have lots of crown land to hunt and it was our first choice anyway.

First 3 days we hit Pickering hills (foot traffic only), saw some whitetail does every day, huge bb on 1st day of hunt. Couldnt find fresh elk droppings anywhere. Made a turn to check Horseshoe lake and saw like 50 hunters camping around it, never went there again. Funniest thing is we havent seen even one on foot anywhere in zone x.

Then we moved down to Galloway, Sand creek. There we saw hunters dropping off on main road near powerline every evening. Since we never heard shot from their side I would assume they were just birdwatching there... Overall Sand creek area looked more promising than Pickering hills
but again - no fresh droppings anywhere to be seen and hunters talking about "too hot weather so elk doesnt come down" and "no rain". Rain would definately help with tracks but I dont get what should we track if its too hot for elk to come down...
So far we saw around 300 wt does, 2 black bears, 1 spike wt buck on highway and 2 different elk cows just few kms outside of zone x area... We walked more than our feet could handle each day in most promising areas without any result.

####### Short version ############

Dont count on coordinator, she is there to just make her Christmass more enjoyable.
Pickering hills and sand creek areas checked by foot, no elk to be seen
Tons of WT does seen, 0 elk in zone x itself, few black bears. Lots of hunters driving on the road, very little walking in the bush.


Question: does hot weather actually affect elk in this area that much or we just miss something really important? And second question would be is there any area we should check in last day of our hunting or those areas we already visited are our best bets?

Thanks

[Ddog]

question, if you were in the pickering hills and you did not see any sign, Why would you stay for 3 days in the one area?

to answer your question about the hot weather, IMO it does not effect the elk at all, what does effect the elk is pressure, seeing to many people when they are not used to seeing to many people.
did you miss something really important,,,,,you must have, you stayed in 1 area for 3 days with no sign.
i would definitely check a different area because the already visited spots are obviously not your best spots.

[ElkMasterC]

Wow...I have no idea what that post was about.
Are you saying there are no available hunts for cows on farms?
I have a list of numbers from the Kootenay Ranchers Association (or something like it.....it was awhile ago) of farmers that want hunters to shoot elk off their property.
Are they useless? Or did you not plan ahead?

[Winder]

question, if you were in the pickering hills and you did not see any sign, Why would you stay for 3 days in the one area?

to answer your question about the hot weather, IMO it does not effect the elk at all, what does effect the elk is pressure, seeing to many people when they are not used to seeing to many people.
did you miss something really important,,,,,you must have, you stayed in 1 area for 3 days with no sign.
i would definitely check a different area because the already visited spots are obviously not your best spots.

first time elk hunting + buzz about pickering hills on HBC and it being vehicle closed area with little foot traffic made me do it. Well, plus little of stupidity, I guess

[Winder]

Wow...I have no idea what that post was about.
Are you saying there are no available hunts for cows on farms?
I have a list of numbers from the Kootenay Ranchers Association (or something like it.....it was awhile ago) of farmers that want hunters to shoot elk off their property.
Are they useless? Or did you not plan ahead?

I didnt find any information on such lists when I was back in Vancouver and to be honest I didnt bother much because we got promised farm land for duration of our whole trip by the guy who answers when you call coordinator's phone number.
Susan (coordinator) claims there are no farms willing to accept hunters in 4-22. I would suggest you to call her and talk about list you have because it seems like she doesnt know anything about it.

[reach]

I spent 6 days there last week looking for a cow with the same result. 0 elk sighted, old elk sign everywhere, no fresh sign anywhere. Did a lot of walking in lots of different areas.

I have never hunted elk before, anywhere, so I don't know whether that's normal for that zone at that time of year.

Didn't try contacting the private land coordinator. I should've contacted the members on here who offered to help, but I'm too stubborn - figured I'd give it my best shot on my own. Now we know exactly how good my best shot is. :D

[4 point]

I was camped at Horseshoe lake last week Saturday to Saturday. There was 16 of usin our group. 15 folks hunting 13 of which were in 4-22X with some atvs and lots of walking and 2 of us in 4-03X on foot.

Long story short after talking to "some locals" who all tell a different story and the nice CO Paul whom we saw three times in the field it is pretty clear there are some problems with these two hunts down there. 1. The LEH hunts for both zones that stared 9/21 followed the 10 day youth/senior hunt. Apparently there were a ton of hunters for this hunt and the elk got shot up and spooked out big time. 2. Then there was the high temperatures. The elk were all broken up into smaller groups and went nocturnal. 3. To many LEH tags to early in the season and for two short a term for cow/calves only. If they really wanted the elk numbers reduced you'd think it would be any elk LEH's.

We know off three cows and 1 six point taken near Horseshoe Lk. One cow was actually taken on a ranch without permisssion and 2 guys had to bone it out to get it out.

Some ranchers appear to be in favouir of access to their property through the program but a lot more aren't. Some near Horseshoe Lk were actually patrolling their fence lines to watch for folks getting on to their land. Some land all posted others not.

We ran into some guys walking thru areas where they are planning underbrush clearing to produce more ungulate winter range. As the CO said there is lots of crown land in the river bottoms to hunt but access past private land to get there is diifcult to find when you from somewhere else and peolpe tell you stuff to mislead you so you can't get to it.

I went to help a hunting partner who had a LEH tag and I was only looking for a big whitetail. Nice country, mainly nice folks but I wouldn't go again to that hunt even if the weather was more fall like.

[rocksteady]

[quote=4 point;522318] pretty clear there are some problems with these two hunts down there. 1. The LEH hunts for both zones that stared 9/21 followed the 10 day youth/senior hunt. Apparently there were a ton of hunters for this hunt and the elk got shot up and spooked out big time. 2. Then there was the high temperatures. The elk were all broken up into smaller groups and went nocturnal. 3. To many LEH tags to early in the season and for two short a term for cow/calves only. If they really wanted the elk numbers reduced you'd think it would be any elk LEH's.




All three of your points are very valid for these hunts.

Another issue is that some of the people coming here for the jr/sr season have unrealistic expectations. Do they expect to see endless herds of elk wandering across every meadow and famers field, while they just road hunt? After it is still called hunting...not shooting...

I do feel the frustration of the people who have LEh after the jr/sr season, its tough....Takes a while for animals to settle down again.

The initial thought process behind having the jr/sr season was two fold. 1) Attempt to target the "homesteader" elk, those that live in the valley bottom year round, that allegedly are responsible for the crop damage. 2) Create an opportunity for less restrictive harvest (round heads, no bulls) for the former hunters (who may like to get back into it) or the new hunter.

Yes, it does have its flaws, but nothing is going to be 100% perfect.

[6616]

Reality Check: :biggrin::grin:

There are 3500 elk in 4-22, there is no shortage of elk. Just because you're not seeing a lot of sign doesn't necessarily mean you're in the wrong area, the elk could be just over the ridge, a little farther away from the roads, etc.

The guys who shoot most of the elk are local guys who are very knowlegeable about the habitat and elk behaviour, or very experienced elk hunters with many years of experience. Even then an elk does not come easy, the above guys work very hard for their elk. RS is right, many guys have overly optimistic expectations. Elk are premier game animals because they do not come easy, they come at a price in knowledge and effort.

If we want a bow season, a youth/Sr season, and LEH antlerless seasons, that all must be over before mid-October when the migratory herds come down into the Trench, followed by a 6pt GOS, there is going to be some crowding, it cannot be helped. Get off the beaten track and away from the heavily roaded areas.

When there's crowding and extreme hunting pressure elk are going to get much harder to hunt. Hot weather can be a minor factor, but it's like Sawmill says, they still eat and drink daily.

Many landowners do not list with the x-zone coordinator because they want to coordinate hunting activity on their lands themselves. Don't be afraid to knock on doors and develop a relationship. Few landowners are going to allow everyone and anyone, they want to know the person and it takes repeat visits and effort to develop this kind of relationship.

Many landowners have had some very bad experiences with hunters in the past and are not going to allow hunting at all, just a fact of life you'll find anywhere, not just the EK.

The objective of the elk management program is not to reduce the overall elk population so much, but more to reduce the non-migratory component which means that all the special seasons have to end before mid-October when the migratory herds start showing up in the Trench. The special seasons are tools to accomplish this objective.

[spock]

There seems to be theme of havng problems contacting the hunt coordinator, anyone else have these problems?

[4 point]

Rocksteady & 6616 I agree with you both. I personally have no bitch with anyone. I appreciate the value of elk hunting, the difficulties of which I take as a given. I was just with folks who were limited to the 1100 meter limit which made us stay in areas that we wouldn't have otherwise.

And yes nothing in hunting is a given or perfect and after my many years in the field I can appreciate that maybe more than some.

I'll be out 5 of the next 6 days in my next of the woods hunting with 2 nephews & my older brother for mulies, spikers and will be enjoying every minute of it whether I take anything or not.

[6616]

Rocksteady & 6616 I agree with you both. I personally have no bitch with anyone. I appreciate the value of elk hunting, the difficulties of which I take as a given. I was just with folks who were limited to the 1100 meter limit which made us stay in areas that we wouldn't have otherwise.

And yes nothing in hunting is a given or perfect and after my many years in the field I can appreciate that maybe more than some.

I'll be out 5 of the next 6 days in my next of the woods hunting with 2 nephews & my older brother for mulies, spikers and will be enjoying every minute of it whether I take anything or not.

Hope I didn't offend anyone but there's a lot of shaded bush, ridges, gullies, cutblocks, etc between the valley bottom fields and the 1100 meter line. There's a lot of elk and some of pretty decent hunting on Crown Lands below 1100 meters but not right next to the roads or fields once the elk are spooked away by the early season pressure.

Do you carry an altimeter? You can get them pretty cheap now-a-days, some even on wrist watches. Just calibrate them every AM from a known elevation and you're good to go.

[CooperSscat]

One of the nephews here who can't wait to get out and hunt with family this weekend! Good times are a coming!

I've never been to MU 4-22 and MU 4-03. Have any pics of the terrain anybody? Too bad about the elevation restricitons.

Jeremy

[brotherjack]

Since the institution of the Jr/Sr cow/calf elk and doe open seasons, I have personally witnessed wildlife populations of both species in pretty much all of those handy "close to home/town" areas drop radically. Last year, I noticed the pickins were a lot slimer than I was used to. This year, areas where I once could find a cow elk on any day of the week, are now almost totally void of fresh tracks and sign for the first time in my 7 years hunting here. My favorite water hole, where I used to sit and watch dozens of deer each night -- this year, there are zero deer (or elk) using it -- and it ain't the weather keeping them under cover; in the past, hot weather has been THE key to catching critters at the water hole... no, the trails going to/from it (once as well worn as cow trails) were overgrown and void of tracks. I saw one doe in the whole area -- and I saw a Sr hunter loading her carcass onto his quad later the same day.

I'm not saying that I'm opposed to the Jr/Sr seasons, wildlife populations were way too high; I understand that. But the net result has sure put me back to square one for finding good spots to hunt that aren't too far from home.

[jg]

Sounds like the strategy of getting rid of or moving out the homesteader elk is working....

[Chillybilly]

I've hunted the trench for 20 + years and in my opinion what thay are doing with the Jr/Sr cow/calf / Whitedail doe is insane. The Wildlife branch has no control over the harvest amounts. I think we are starting to see the results already of this. I believe they should pick a zone and set up an LEH for this hunt so the harvest is controled. If they continue this hunt for a couple more years the animals will be few and far between! At least the ranchers will be happy! Just me 2 cents worth.

Chilly

[4 point]

Yes we did have a GPS with altitude tracking. We were not expecting an easy hunt and were prepared to do, go where ever to get er done.

See you Saturday morning Copperscat can't wait to get you guys out, lots of bucks being spotted.

[Ddog]

so BJ you can notice a difference in population of WT does after one 10 day season? you must keep a numbered watch on those deer.
the wintering grounds that i visited last season i seen countless deer and elk in a period of 1 week while out and about.
in fact during the archery season i seen more does in just a couple of days than you could count, we saw dozens of good bucks to. so after the one week senior/youth hunt last year the doe population is still very large.

i have noticed that the large number of elk herds seem to be broken down into smaller herds, however the spots that i have been in elk populations have not changed whatsoever. its only obvious that there is so many spots under 1100M that the elk may have been taken down a notch but the larger herds in the mountains have not changed at all, other than a few 6 point plus bulls being knocked down. this year has been great for watching elk.
the WT population is as healthy as it has ever been and to manage properly a few does need to taken out. i had no problems taking an elk, wt doe and a wt buck this year with my bow, the farthest shot was at the elk at 30 yards.

[brotherjack]

so BJ you can notice a difference in population of WT does after one 10 day season? you must keep a numbered watch on those deer.


Well, when deer sightings in a given area drop from say 10 or 20 a day to 0 or 1 a day and the trails go from heavily used to overgrown and trackless, it doesn't exactly take a spreadsheet to figure out that the population IN THAT AREA has dropped dramaticly.

Also, if you'll notice -- nowhere did I say that all the deer (or elk) were gone -- I said that in the areas I tend to hunt (close to home/close to town), that I have noticed a HUGE difference in the amount of game seen. Once I get out into the deeper bush, I have noticed no apparent difference in critter numbers (or sizes).



the wintering grounds that i visited last season i seen countless deer and elk in a period of 1 week while out and about.
in fact during the archery season i seen more does in just a couple of days than you could count, we saw dozens of good bucks to.

Yeah, yeah, whatever -- good for you oh mighty hunter, you are far superior to the rest of us. I'm happy for you.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today, but I think you're going back on my ignore list.

[GRH]

Spent 9 days in 4-22X
Sept 21
I was amazed by the amount of hunters.We stayed north of the bull.Setup camp at horseshoe.Never moved truck again.Took quads as far into the bush as possible and then walked till found fresh sign.By the end my feet hurt and no elk.It had nothing to do with the weather.It was hunting pressure.Was lucky enough to bang on doors and found private 800 acres to hunt north of horseshoe.Talked to the owners who told us that the elk just were not there.Phoned another HBC user that lives there and he said he had not seen any elk on his fields yet.The land owner did say that the youth/65 hunt was a gong show.Hunters everywhere.I too was told by co-ordinator that hunting on private land would not be a problem and then it came time to head down there she had no land owners signed up.You are right about land owners doing thier own private hunts as most I talked to did just that.
Its not a gimme I'll give you that.
A change I can see is the LEH's be fewer and no 1100m restriction.
Other hunters I talked to gave up hunting cows and were going after 6 point high in the hills.Some of the landowners DONT leave the house as the sun goes down as shots have rung around them.Pighins
The country is beautiful.No doubt about that.Seen a ton of does
Seen one 4x5 and a spiker about 1000 yards off.Thank god for spotting scopes.There is a real problem there with youth/65 then LEH draws as they are to close together.The elk have no time to calm down and another 400 hunters come in looking for them again.Then Oct 1st another 400 hunters come looking for them.Not all are LEH cow/calf hunters.
So what do you do.
Make the youth/senior season earlier.Let the elk calm down somewhaqt get back to normal.Issue less cow/calf tags for both hunts and make it an enjoyable time atleast seeing elk.Even if you dont get one.
Will I put in for the LEH cow/calf draw again in 4-22X......... NO ...........
When I did talk to the co-ordinator when I was down there there were lots of land owners looking for hunters in 4-03.That maybe my next draw for elk

Just my 2 cents and I know I'm going to hear about this

[325]

Spent 9 days in 4-22X
Sept 21
I was amazed by the amount of hunters.We stayed north of the bull.Setup camp at horseshoe.Never moved truck again.Took quads as far into the bush as possible and then walked till found fresh sign.By the end my feet hurt and no elk.It had nothing to do with the weather.It was hunting pressure.Was lucky enough to bang on doors and found private 800 acres to hunt north of horseshoe.Talked to the owners who told us that the elk just were not there.Phoned another HBC user that lives there and he said he had not seen any elk on his fields yet.The land owner did say that the youth/65 hunt was a gong show.Hunters everywhere.I too was told by co-ordinator that hunting on private land would not be a problem and then it came time to head down there she had no land owners signed up.You are right about land owners doing thier own private hunts as most I talked to did just that.
Its not a gimme I'll give you that.
A change I can see is the LEH's be fewer and no 1100m restriction.
Other hunters I talked to gave up hunting cows and were going after 6 point high in the hills.Some of the landowners DONT leave the house as the sun goes down as shots have rung around them.Pighins
The country is beautiful.No doubt about that.Seen a ton of does
Seen one 4x5 and a spiker about 1000 yards off.Thank god for spotting scopes.There is a real problem there with youth/65 then LEH draws as they are to close together.The elk have no time to calm down and another 400 hunters come in looking for them again.Then Oct 1st another 400 hunters come looking for them.Not all are LEH cow/calf hunters.
So what do you do.
Make the youth/senior season earlier.Let the elk calm down somewhaqt get back to normal.Issue less cow/calf tags for both hunts and make it an enjoyable time atleast seeing elk.Even if you dont get one.
Will I put in for the LEH cow/calf draw again in 4-22X......... NO ...........
When I did talk to the co-ordinator when I was down there there were lots of land owners looking for hunters in 4-03.That maybe my next draw for elk

Just my 2 cents and I know I'm going to hear about this


That's why I'll never hunt the EK again....not that there is no game...there's plenty of it, but to me the aspect I enjoy about hunting the most is the solitude, and that is difficult to find there.....the East Kootenays are just too close to the LML

[CJW]

I just spent the morning looking for a cow elk in 4-22X. Parked the truck and walked into the bush about 1.5km hoping to see some elk heading into the thicker stuff after coming out of the fields. Between the two or three quads that were constantly driving around from first light and the trucks driving around I didn't see a thing.

The whole time I was in the bush I didn't come across another hunter, but once I got back to the truck they were on the roads everywhere. I think there has been too much hunting pressure in the area and the elk have thinned out.

I wonder if a guy should keep at it trying to find a cow in zone x or try for a six point up in the higher elevation?

[IHUNTBC]

I had LEH for 4-20 & was also told by the co-ordinator that hunting on private land would not be an issue, but when it was time to go I also was told there were no farms available at all. There were hunters everywhere I went and no one was seeing a thing(plus it was over 30 degrees every day). I even walked into the bushes to get away from quads & trucks and only saw one respectable moose and 5 whitetail bucks which I did not take as they were only spikes or two points. All I got was sore feet and never saw an Elk, not even where they were last year BIGTIME. This was not as great a hunt as it sounded, that's for sure.
The 1100m restriction sucks when it is hot, it makes your LEH useless.
Yes most hunters, including myself gave up cows & went for 6 Pt bulls in higher ground. I was not impressed at all, as I shot my Elk without a problem the last many years elsewhere, and will be going back there and not doing this draw again. We even drifted the river one day for 30 km and saw only one whitetail doe. Good bye LEH area 4-20 for good.................... If any one else tries it GOOD LUCK, you will need it...............

[ElkMasterC]

I wonder if a guy should keep at it trying to find a cow in zone x or try for a six point up in the higher elevation?


All the elk are gone pretty much in 4-3 and 4-22.
I heard there's TONS up north....maybe should think about trying there next year.
;-)

[Fisher-Dude]

So, despite ruining cheapskate BJ's hunting spot 1.2L of fuel from his house, the program (youth/sr, bow, LEH X zone) has been a HUGE success, because the main objective was to get these elk the hell off their winter range and back UP the hillsides! It was NOT to kill off the elk, it was to get them moving back into the mountains where they should be, and let them come to the winter range in the winter. A well-orchestrated gong show was just what the doctor ordered! :-D

[CJW]

All the elk are gone pretty much in 4-3 and 4-22.
I heard there's TONS up north....maybe should think about trying there next year.
;-)

I would but the 10 minute drive compared to the 15 hour drive if I were to go up north, keeps me around here.