Problems with using creek water to clean out body cavity and cool animal??

[1911]

Hey all,

we sometimes get an animal into a creek to thoroughly rinse out the body cavity after field dressing, and last weekend we kept our mulie buck in there for a bout 15 minutes in an attempt to start cooling him down before the drive home...

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSC00082_Large_.JPG

I noticed a bit of discoloration on the exposed meat, but I didn't split the pelvic symphysis until we got him out of the creek, so this was just minor damage that could be trimmed off around the opening to the body cavity.

Had a note from Paulyman,


I was told by a hunter that you should never use water on your game meat as it introduces micro bacteria into your meat which can cause spoiling, just wanted to mention it incase you've never heard of that.

Sweet pics and congrats to you on a great trip :)

Wondering if anyone else has some info or ideas on this topic??

Cheers

1911

[barry1974w]

I've been told by my butcher to never wash an animal with creek or lake water because of the risk of contamination. But on the other hand I've field dressed moose in swamp water up to my knees and it turned out fine. But I'll continue to try to keep my carcasses reasonably clean dry and cool with whatever means I have at the time.

[bushpig slayer]

i've done it tons of times never had a problem.with bear on hot spring days,tie a rope and let it float i've left them up top an hour.it's got to be a good deep flowing river.never a lake.maybe i'm just lucky at doing it multiple times?i've seen guys float moose meat in cheese cloth in the river in pg.after they shot one to cool it in warm weather aswell so you make the call.

[guest]

Putting the carcass in the creek would not be my first choice.
I would clean the body cavity out, wipe with clean rags, rinse and clean out with dry rags if you want to leave it whole.

Personally, if I were leaving it whole, I would take the hide off on a clean tarp or while hanging and get it in the shade a s a p. That hide will hold more heat in causing bone sour.

Early season, we quarter, or debone and get it in large coolers for the trip home. I love the big fish coolers, 150 Ltr. ones, you can 1/2 the critter and put it in there.

Laying the meat or animal in cold water should be a last resort with as little meat exposed to the water as possible.

Just my 2 cents

CT

[elkster]

I've used creek water also to clean and cool down the carcass. After I wipe down it down with vinegar and water. 1 cup of vinegar to a gallon of water. Cleans the meat really well, and seems to help it set up.

[Bill Dance]

IMO I think everybody on here has caught fish from a river or lake and cleaned it in the same water with no effects, as long as the water is moving or the water is not in muddy skanky puddle it should be alright. I have only been lucky enough to be close to a stream once to wash out a deer cavity and meat was fine.

[Bow Walker]

The exposed meat wil most likely turn a bit white-ish if you use lake or creek water to cool the carcass. We meatcutters (not butchers) just trim all that away. Once you get to fresh meat, you're good to go. It's the same with hanging a carcass to "age" it (although the exposed meat turns black-ish, not white-ish).

I do it and will continue to do it.

[silvertipp]

ive left deer in a creek for a day with no problems,its alot better than letting the flys & heat at it
Never had abad tasteing animal out of a creek
if the water is a good flowing creek than you wont have any problems
unless you have a heard of cattle upstream

[Buck]

We also rinse with Creek water after dressing.No problems.But be wary of the water supply.

[007]

I think the issue is that water supports rapid bacterial growth, so if you can try to get it dry after the dunking, should minimize the risk of spoilage.

[cainer]

Throw it a plastic bag, then in the river. you get the cold without the wet. Never done it, but seems like a sound idea

[Yak]

Throw it a plastic bag, then in the river. you get the cold without the wet. Never done it, but seems like a sound idea

Good thought, but be carefull of the type of bag you use. Most garbage bags are treated with an anti-bacterial film and perfume to keep down smells, not something i would want on my meat.

I too, always thought you were never to use creek water for anything other than cleaning your hands, so said my old man... But interesting point made on how everyone cleans the blood off their fish with creek water and never thinks anything of it??

[lip_ripper00]

The exposed meat wil most likely turn a bit white-ish if you use lake or creek water to cool the carcass. We meatcutters (not butchers) just trim all that away. Once you get to fresh meat, you're good to go. It's the same with hanging a carcass to "age" it (although the exposed meat turns black-ish, not white-ish).

I do it and will continue to do it.

I will take the meat cutters word for it. We will gut an animal in the field but will get it back to camp asap. Hang, skin, and SCRUB any dirt, mung, blood shot ect with cold clear water, once clean we will let it set up overnight an sock it i the AM, never had any problems

[MB_Boy]

The issue with the water as mentioned earlier is it can provide a perfect environment for bacteria and/or worms/larvae from things like blow flies (IIRC) to do their thing. Wiping down with water shouldn't be too bad or a water/vinegar mix but when you immerse the animal in water it can get water into the tissue pockets and that is where the "enivornment" is created.

I would think if you were cooling meat down right after shooting the animal and getting it to a butcher/cooler in the same day you may not be too bad. When we were flying in on hunts we generally had to wait at least a week for a pickup of the meat or it may be on the pole for 10 days. As others said...all dirt etc was cleaned off the meat and then the quarters were loaded into big "socks" of t-shirt material, sealed up and hung on the pole. For one more layer of protection we had BIG heavy duty mesh bags made that had one end/side with a huge opening and velcro all along it. You could slide these bags up around 2 quarters of a moose and seal the velcro;giving one more layer of protection that was 100% breathable.

[835]

i have always washed off my game with river water or lake water (not slough) with vinigar. scrub hard wipe off let sit till the morning and bag....
but i also dont go camp hunting in the heat. i hunt out of my house in sept.

[Eskimo345]

Me and my buds have raided our girlfriends and wives of all ther old bed sheets u wash them and then they are perfect breatheable and wont let the flies get to ur meat plus they are large enough where one sheet can usaully do a whole moose quarter

[Salty]

I wouldn't drag the whole carcass into a creek on purpose. Imagine soaking a steak in a bowl of water. Ahhhhh, no. Not that it'd hurt anything but who wants grey waterlogged meat?

I always carry a bucket in the truck to thoroughly rince an animal with fresh water once I get it there if there's a decent source around. Then dry it I right away. ..

[BearStump]

shot a buck almost 2 weeks ago and by the time I got him down the mtn. to the truck it was only 10:00 am and 30 deg out.
put the deer in the creek by the truck used a quad tie down around the neck and tied him off to a good heavy rock. he was there all day, till 9:30 that night.
like you said the edges of the exposed belly meat were a bit whitish but once on the hook at home and skinned out it was totally fine, just a little bit of trimmin'.
hung him in a fridge for 2 days, cut him up and froze him. tastes great I'd definately do it again.

I think the key would be to leave the hide on while in water and expose as little meat as possible

[lilhoss]

I take a submersible pump up on our hunting trips.Hang it from a home-made branch "tripod",or off a log in the creek next to camp.Add 2 lengths of 1 1/2" firehose from the pump,reduced to a garden hose,which helps boost the pressure a little, complete with spray nozzle.Start up the generator and we have running water anytime we need it.I use a coarse scrub brush to rinse the hair,blood,etc and let set up overnight before the game bags are put on.We also fill the camper for shower nights the same way.Never ,ever had problems with rinsing the meat.I would rather rinse all the contaminants,anything from the gut bag,and the blood,spinal chords,etc because that is the 1st spot the flies will go after,and it will go rancid quicker that the surrounding meat.

[Bow Walker]

The thing to remember here is that no one in their right mind is going to dunk their animal in a scummy, stagnant stream bed or a pond.

Any sane hunter will look for (and find) a large, clear puddle/pond with some depth - or a steadily flowing, clean stream to wash out the body cavity.

[BCHunterFSJ]

During early August I have seen sheep quarters placed in plastic pack boxes that the horses carry and the boxes then submerged in ice cold creek water. Cools off the meat real well. Personally, I have also buried quarters in snow. No problems...

[maw]

A book I recently read raised two issues with submerging your meat in water:

1) Water will penetrate the meat so when you cook it the meat boils instead of grills.

2) Water will penetrate the meat so when frozen the meat will get ice crystals which affects long term storage.

Also, it is never recommended to put your meat in a sealed plastic bag. The reasoning is that the meat cannot breathe and the condensation/heat will spoil the meat.

The recommended approach is to cool the meat ASAP.

- Field Dress
- Quarter or halve if necessary
- Put inside a cheesecloth bag
- Hang / store the meat to cool
- ideal storage temperature is 1-4 degrees Celsius

Either hang the meat (if it is between 1 and 5 degrees Celsius) or if warmer place the meat near water OR get it to a fridge ASAP. If you're in the middle of nowhere and you can protect the meat from scavengers then find a rock to lay the meat on beside running water. If you have a boat then put the meat in your boat and paddle/putt around causing air to flow around the meat. Air temperature is a lot lower near a water source.

For the record, the first deer I got (last year) I sprayed cleaned with a hose when I got back to camp. This approach was recommended by someone who has hunted 30+ years. However, some of the meat definitely experienced freezer burn which may be related to the hosing. Going forward I am going to take the approach mentioned in the book I read. However, if it is 15+ degrees out and I am camp hunting then I might submerge the meat in water protected in a cheesecloth bag. This would hopefully prevent prevent total spoilage.... or just make sure I brought a few big chest coolers + lots of ice ;).

- maw

[quackquackbang]

As for keeping the flys away we use black pepper and it seems to work great!!!!!

[David Heitsman]

I cleaned a deer after skinning in my driveway years ago using a garden hose. I took it to the butcher just off 264th in Aldergrove and they advised me to never get the meat wet as this inhibits the necessary mold growth that is part of the curing process. Henceforth I have never done it.
I do always immediately skin the animal, propping the ribs open to allow ventilation and when I travel I have placed a sealed icebag or two in the cavities to maintain coolness.

The worst I ever saw was a guy in Aldergrove that had shot a buffalo and never skinned it thinking it would freeze in the cold weather. When I saw it in the garage a few days later the whole thing stunk and it still wasn't skinned. Then the kids complain that the burgers don't taste right...

[sapper]

Related question. We know our deer will be kept at a suitable temperature after we've skinned it. My question though is, when returning back to the LM and our butcher we'll have the deer in an enclosed trailer, should we put a few double bagged bags of chunk ice in the gut cavity to maintain a suitable temperature?

[1911]

Sapper,

We double bag blocks of ice and put them in the body cavity for transport. Rick at Rick's Meats in Cranbrook, a very respected wild game butcher told us that this is a good idea...

[sapper]

Excellent. Thanks, 1911.

[blackbart]

Fistly, nice buck that you harvested. Way to go.

Now to answer, or try to answer your question.
- initial cooling is far more important than ambiant temperature
- the above being said I would recomend full skinning and possibly quartering given the early season. Your photos seem to indicate that this did not occur.
- if after skinning the meat is still warm, then a bath in cold water should not be a problem, provided the previously provided advice is followed.

In the future the best thing that you could do is to knock the hide off ASAP.

I am sure your lovely buck is very tasty. Let us know once you try it.

For the best taste I would also recomend removing all of the fat and not letting the butcher cut the bone. Even a hard rutting animal (except caribou) should be fairly tasty if the fat is removed and the butchering process does not involve a band saw ripping through all the bone. Marrow tainted meat = nasty flavour in my mind!
-

[Beaverhunter]

I did it once with a blacktail I shot in Chilliwack put in the Vedder after I gutted it just to get the blood out of the cavity. Tasted fine.

[Bow Walker]

Fistly, nice buck that you harvested. Way to go.

Now to answer, or try to answer your question.
- initial cooling is far more important than ambiant temperature
- the above being said I would recomend full skinning and possibly quartering given the early season. Your photos seem to indicate that this did not occur.
- if after skinning the meat is still warm, then a bath in cold water should not be a problem, provided the previously provided advice is followed.

In the future the best thing that you could do is to knock the hide off ASAP.

I am sure your lovely buck is very tasty. Let us know once you try it.

For the best taste I would also recomend removing all of the fat and not letting the butcher cut the bone. Even a hard rutting animal (except caribou) should be fairly tasty if the fat is removed and the butchering process does not involve a band saw ripping through all the bone. Marrow tainted meat = nasty flavour in my mind!
-
Well said blackbart. And yes - congrats on a fine buck.

Skinning and quartering and wrapping the meat in old sheets - A.S.A.P. - goes a very long ways to cooling it down quickly.

As for the rutting deer - I always bone them out. Never cut with a band saw or a hand saw. Much tastier that way. The bones go to the dog, after roasting them that is.

[1911]

Good points Blackbart. Thanks!

We would have skinned him, but this was right when we had dragged him down off the mountain, and we were only about an hour drive to the butcher. He was skinned and hanging in the cooler within an hour and a half. I think you are dead right about skinning him ASAP though, and if we had been any further out it would have been done.

[martyonthewater]

I've always used creek/lake water to rag wipe off skinned quarters, never had a problem, we also take a cooler full of water filled frozen milk containers that we stack around the meat during transport to help keep it cool