Griz, What do you do?

[Vinny]

Here is the story. Hiked about 2 hours in from vehicle for a day of elk hunting. Got up hi to do some glassing and as I get near the spot I want to glass from I hear a bugle from below. I walk up another 100 yds or so to try and get a peak and as I'm looking down I hear movement above and behind me. Quickly unshouldered the rifle, spin to get a look atb the "elk" coming and see a large boar griz.

Now this would not be a problem except he is standing on hind legs now(!@#$ huge)staring at me from about 15 yds. Now comes decision time, I have him in my sights and I am deciding do I shoot, where do I shoot, and is it necessary to shoot? If I shoot, is he going to be injured and come at me or run, and if he runs is he going to come back pissed(I'm 2 hours from the nearest road). I have a good clean shot at his chest from the front but unsure how lethal this will be if I'm to hi or too low. Also, he hasn't shown any real aggression yet but if he does 15 yds isn't much ground for him to cover.

It's now been about 15 seconds and he hasn't moved, and hasn't been aggressive yet. I decide that if there is any sign of aggression that the .300 RUM is gonna have to do my talking(I didn't care if it was something as little as his ears flattening out).

Give me some insight on what you think I should have done and then I will complete the story.

[hillclimber]

i wouldn't take any chances i would've shot. but it's never happened to me before and i'm sure other will chime in

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You're here...so you did at least one thing right.:shock:

If you feel that your life is threatened, then do what you have too.

Bet you're glad you had a .300rum in your hands and not a 7mm-08 or something.:smile:

SSS

[olharley guy]

Howdy, if he would have shown the slightest movement of aggression or anything-I would have shot him dead and explained later.
As I have said in some earlier posts I know people fairly well that have pieces missing from there bodies/like big chunks missing and others that are not here anymore. To close for comfort! Later

[ZENYO]

You're here...so you did at least one thing right.:shock:

If you feel that your life is threatened, then do what you have too.

Bet you're glad you had a .300rum in your hands and not a 7mm-08 or something.:smile:

SSS

X2... Although I might have been to frozen scared to pull the triger...

[J_T]

hmmm here's a thought. Shorten the distance up to under 5 yards, standing griz and all you have is a bow.

As SSS says, you're here. So you did the right thing.

[1899]

An honest 15 yards? Or 30 yards but it was so scary that it looked like 15 yards?

I've fired a warning shot at ~25 yards before, but it is hard to say what one would do when sitting in the comfort of a chair in a nice, warm, cozy room.

One thing that might be a bit comforting is to leave that .300 RUM at home next time and have a .375 H&H or even a .416 RM if you are comfortable shooting it. I used to own a .416 and boy did it ever lay the game out. A fellow I know in the Yukon once told me that things start happening much more dramatically when you have a .416 or larger - and I agree!

[valleycowboy]

had the same type of situation with a sow and two cubs.
gun up,safety off,yelled or talked very loud at her. after 30 sec.(seemed like an hour,lol).the cubs ran up the bank and 10 sec. later the sow followed the cubs and turned and looked at me and walked off.

my feeling....any type of movement towards me.....BOOM.
but,seeing she wasn't being aggresive.we both got to see another day.

if the boar you seen took one step closer,he would have got shot.

[Amphibious]

15yrds I would shoot. that is to close. outside 25 I let them be and egress from the area. been bumping into a lot of g-bears last few years hunting/guiding, although, none have been openly aggressive in nature.

[brad ferris]

thats real close but i hope you waited for him to come down.i've seen them turn almost 90 degrees as they come from hinds to all fours.if he hasn't come at you by now i would hope he's thinking about booking the f outa there.safety off, finger on and muzzle on the bear.leave your shorts on the mountain no sense hiking two hours with that mess chafing you the whole way.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I would have casually lit up an H1N1 twister and blew calming smoke rings at him.

[Foxtail]

Tough one... What if you're aiming at his chest and he drops down to charge just as you fire... You miss high... Aim low, like at his crotch. That way if he drops to charge his head should be in your crosshairs. Either that or take him out at the neck immediately, don't even give him the chance.

He was probably stalking the same bull you were.

[Gateholio]

Standing on hind legs he is trying to figure out what you are....He is trying to get a sniff and maybe get a look. He came in expecting an elk and found you.

I'd wait until he makes the next move. When he drops down he is either going to come straight for you with his ears down or straight away from you. Once he drops down, if he takes one step toward you from 15 yards, it's time to shoot well.:smile:

[huntcoop]

.300 RUM, I woulda pulled the trigger and shot the c0cksucker. Then taken off my underwear, thrown then away, reached into my pack and pulled out my bottle of Fireball and got shittered :-P . Mind you, easy to say not being in your shoes.

[bayou]

You have to realize that theres bears, wolves and cats in the bush so if those things make you scared or nervous to start with then stay outa the bush your the ones putting yourself in the situation that causes the problem.

[Vinny]

An honest 15 yards? Or 30 yards but it was so scary that it looked like 15 yards?

I've fired a warning shot at ~25 yards before, but it is hard to say what one would do when sitting in the comfort of a chair in a nice, warm, cozy room.

One thing that might be a bit comforting is to leave that .300 RUM at home next time and have a .375 H&H or even a .416 RM if you are comfortable shooting it. I used to own a .416 and boy did it ever lay the game out. A fellow I know in the Yukon once told me that things start happening much more dramatically when you have a .416 or larger - and I agree!

It was an honest 15 yds and I don't like shooting anything over a .300(although it is a big .300)

[huntcoop]

You have to realize that theres bears, wolves and cats in the bush so if those things make you scared or nervous to start with then stay outa the bush your the ones putting yourself in the situation that causes the problem.

Who's scared and nervous?

[835]

I'm sorry an honest 15 and standing? i'd put the x under his chin and squeez. Call me a scardie cat but you wont be throwin dirt on me.
If he hits the ground running you got 1 sec, while he is standing as long as you have said you can place your shot to drop it.Running? well you gotta be tough.

[shantz]

Who's scared and nervous?

I'm never going in the woods again.:sad: haha

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Who's scared and nervous?

Not me. I'd have been "in the zone" and probably not noticed the bear. Once he got a whiff of the ole H1N1 he'd have layed down like a tired puppy dog.

[Vinny]

Some good posts. I'd have to say that I was surprised at how calm I was and how steady my aim was. There was absolutely no time to be nervous or scared which probably worked in my favor. That bear stood like that for what seemed like an hour but was probably more like 20-30 secs.

After this amount of time I was getting to the point that the trigger was almost pulled when he dropped and ran down hill. at this point I ranged where he was standing and began the long hike out as I didn't want to kill an elk and have him come back to visit the dinner bell.

[bozzdrywall]

I want to go home to my wife and kid. Bears are wild animals, not to sure what there going to do. Aim at his wind pipe and let lead fly.

[guest]

Wish you had Wolverine with ya, .... he's the bravest ......

CT

[olharley guy]

Some good posts. I'd have to say that I was surprised at how calm I was and how steady my aim was. There was absolutely no time to be nervous or scared which probably worked in my favor. That bear stood like that for what seemed like an hour but was probably more like 20-30 secs.

After this amount of time I was getting to the point that the trigger was almost pulled when he dropped and ran down hill. at this point I ranged where he was standing and began the long hike out as I didn't want to kill an elk and have him come back to visit the dinner bell.

Howdy, that's great everything worked out in your favour, next time take a buddy even if he is just a packer Ha! You won't forget this episode for a while. Later

[1899]

It was an honest 15 yds and I don't like shooting anything over a .300(although it is a big .300)

Why don't you like shooting anything over a .300?

[Vinny]

Why don't you like shooting anything over a .300?

I guess I shouldn't say I don't like it, I just never saw the need for it before this. I had thought about a 450 marlin or 45/70 lever gun for protection during bowhunting but opted for a defender.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Why don't you like shooting anything over a .300?

A 375HH with 300 gr triple shoks leaves a surprisingly tiny exit hole.

[Vinny]

had the same type of situation with a sow and two cubs.
gun up,safety off,yelled or talked very loud at her. after 30 sec.(seemed like an hour,lol).the cubs ran up the bank and 10 sec. later the sow followed the cubs and turned and looked at me and walked off.

my feeling....any type of movement towards me.....BOOM.
but,seeing she wasn't being aggresive.we both got to see another day.

if the boar you seen took one step closer,he would have got shot.

Sounds like my bowhunting experience last season, hence the purchase of the defender. Arrowing a protective momma didn't seem like a good idea. At least last year I was further away when she bluffed and barked at me and I had time to exit the area without incident.

[Fixit]

come on, he stood there for 20-30 seconds and you didnt even get a picture!!!

[1899]

A 375HH with 300 gr triple shoks leaves a surprisingly tiny exit hole.

I don't like the triple shock in the .375 offerings (I tried the 270gr). Neither does another fellow I know in the Yukon who has had poor luck with them (250gr IIRC).

The good 'ol Hornady or Partition is just fine. I'm also more concerned about what happens inside the critter as opposed to the size of the exit wound.

[Vinny]

come on, he stood there for 20-30 seconds and you didnt even get a picture!!!

The picture in my mind will do just fine for a few years, I don't think a pic is necessary for me to remember. Besides, it's a little hard to reach the camera and hold a bead on the bear.:idea:

[f350ps]

Howdy, that's great everything worked out in your favour, next time take a buddy even if he is just a packer Ha! You won't forget this episode for a while. Later
And make sure you can run faster than yer buddy. K

[1899]

I guess I shouldn't say I don't like it, I just never saw the need for it before this. I had thought about a 450 marlin or 45/70 lever gun for protection during bowhunting but opted for a defender.

Well, don't knock it til you try it!:smile:

The nice thing about the .375's and the .416's is that they shoot plenty flat for even that long shot on an elk. I have found that with the proper recoil pad and properly fitted stock they are not terrible to shoot. In fact they seem to have less of a bit than a lightweight .300 with high velocity loads. Just something to think about.

[wolverine]

Wish you had Wolverine with ya, .... he's the bravest ......

CT
Naw, just seems that way to cowards. Shit... did I forget my smiley face? Next time.

[wolverine]

I'm with the others. You're here, so you did the right thing. I know guys that wouldn't think twice and would pull the trigger and they are right too. I think it's all up to the individual and what you are seeing/sensing at the time. Personally, I don't know what I would have done. That's a tough call. Would have scared the living shit out of me though and I think you did the right thing not going after the Elk knowing you had company looking for dinner. He might not have backed off the next time or might have caught you packing a quarter out. Good job. Good post.

[moosinaround]

Understanding bear behaviour is an important skill in bear country. Like Gatehouse said, he was expecting an elk!!:shock: 15 yrds doesnot give a person much time to react to a decision!! Keeping a bead on him was a good idea, and reading his behaviour saved both of your lives! Going home afterwards was a good decision too! Glad it worked out and you are here to post the story! Moosin

[bigben]

The cards are laid out for ya ................. do what you have to ...................... your still here to talk about it so it all panned out .................... anyhow thats my theory...................... it happenend to me on a elk with a sow and cub ......................all four of us lived to tell stories still ........just my thought..........

[taurus]

Id shoot, like you said thats not much distance for him to cover. Might have to explain yourself to a CO and all the bleeding hearts that think they are endangered but at least your around to do it.

[srupp]

hmmm when a grizz stands it gives him his "different perspective" he is at that point actually decieding what you are..and if it will require agressive behavior or a flight reaction...

At 15 yards you are 1.5 seconds from contact..:shock:...once he drops and COMES at you its pretty damn quick..however while STILL in the standing position he is STILL decieding...

No quick movements...but the 300rum better be heading up READY for a quick but accurate shot...

The 15 yards is inside my comfort zone if a bear is on all fours..but still standing I would be ready and aimed and bullet in the tube saftey off..

Glad it worked out for ya///

Steven

[ROEBUCK]

so were would you guys reccomend shooting the bear?
i would be wary taking a chest shot as he could hurt you bad before he expired.?
what about between the eyes?would it get through the scull???
or try to break its neck? a lot of room for error with a big animals kneck??
where would you aim for???

[Vinny]

so were would you guys reccomend shooting the bear?
i would be wary taking a chest shot as he could hurt you bad before he expired.?
what about between the eyes?would it get through the scull???
or try to break its neck? a lot of room for error with a big animals kneck??
where would you aim for???

This is something I would like to know as well. The "between the eyes" thing wouldn't work in my situation as i would have had to aim up and through his nose. I had thought about a neck shot hoping to do some major damage or a chest shot(largest target) and followed up with anywhere I could hit him if he came at me(don't think I would have gotten a second shot if he came at me after the first). It's because of these questions that that bear didn't eat lead right off the bat.

[ROEBUCK]

This is something I would like to know as well. The "between the eyes" thing wouldn't work in my situation as i would have had to aim up and through his nose. I had thought about a neck shot hoping to do some major damage or a chest shot(largest target) and followed up with anywhere I could hit him if he came at me(don't think I would have gotten a second shot if he came at me after the first). It's because of these questions that that bear didn't eat lead right off the bat.


not sure if there would have been time but possible brain shot as it went back down on all fours?

[srupp]

having had to actually do this..centre of chest with 300rum would work very well

I would STRONGLY urge you to NOt aim for the head or between the eyes or between the nuts......

another good aim point is where the neck joins the chest..

anything else is just a HERO shot to be avoided..IMHO..

good post

Steven:mrgreen:

[ROEBUCK]

thanks srupp
the only reason i was thinking a brain shot
is because it seems when the guides in africa shoot a charging animal buffalo ,lion elephant or whatever they allways shoot for the brain.
but ive never been in that situation and hope never too

[Vinny]

Thanks srupp, I figured the chest shot would be the best choice for more than one reason(largest target in a tight situation and the most vital organs to hit) I saw what the .300 rum will do on a blackie but never had to shoot a griz and hope I don't until I get drawn!!!

[hillclimber]

ok so lets say the bear is standing on his hind legs and facing you. is his heart more on the left side like a human or is it located else where. and is it different for blacks then grizzlies?

stefan

[steepNdeep]

Seems like you held it together pretty well... and you're still typin'.

At that distance CNS - spinal cord or brain are all that's gonna stop him in his tracks. The aim point if he's coming is just below the chin so that you catch his spine where it drops down from his neck.

You are gonna owe me some sleep - I'll be hikin' up in the dark and sleepin' in the bear burrito in big grizz country on Sat. night... Hopefully the bull's will be giving a show... Sleep is overrated anyways! ;)

[groove]

Sounds like two cloth touching experiences on this board!
I would like to say I would have done the same as you, but I think I'd be telling fish stories. 15 yrd for a grizz, wow. Way to hold it together. Both parties won on this one.

[Kody94]

Sleep is overrated anyways! ;)

lol

Its like the old saying....there will be plenty of time to sleep when you're grizz poop. :D Or something like that... lol

[Vinny]

Seems like you held it together pretty well... and you're still typin'.

At that distance CNS - spinal cord or brain are all that's gonna stop him in his tracks. The aim point if he's coming is just below the chin so that you catch his spine where it drops down from his neck.

You are gonna owe me some sleep - I'll be hikin' up in the dark and sleepin' in the bear burrito in big grizz country on Sat. night... Hopefully the bull's will be giving a show... Sleep is overrated anyways! ;)

Sorry bout the sleep thing, but if your gonna go into bear country ya gotta believe you are gonna have contact with them(hopefully not as close as mine but belive me, it gets easier after the first couple of experiences) This was the closest for me and next time, cause I know there will be a next time, I hope I am more prepared. Good luck with the bulls, they have shut right up around here. Only dropped to +13 last night and +11 night before. Still fun though and 100% better than work!!!

[huntcoop]

...centre of chest with 300rum would work very well I would STRONGLY urge you to NOt aim for the head or between the eyes or between the nuts......Steven

Good advice, aim for the centre of mass.

[browningboy]

From typing behind the computer it is quite easy to say one or the other, for me I would have practiced shietting the pants and then shooting, I can honestly say I wouldn't wait to take the gamble...just my perspective.
Good on you though!

[srupp]

Hillclimber..its like police training..hold center of mass and squeeeeeeze..
dont add any difficulty..just center of chest and squeeeeeze...and keep shooting PRN....as needed...:shock:

The problem with the neck shot..just below the chin is most guys are shaking so bad they could concievably pull the shot and miss..make that FIRST shot count..the next shell you rack in.....jam...may not get time for a second shot..

When you finally decide its time to shoot..do not waste that opportunity...

When its life and death...make it count...go with the odds...a certain hit from close range with a .300rum center chest will have some great results..in your favour..

cheers
Steven

[J_T]

Good advice, aim for the centre of mass.
Yup, Centre of mass.

[bigshooter]

Quick story
Me and a friend sitting on a cliff looking down over a 50 foot drop talking after a long walk. We hear some noise comming from the bush behind us. I think grouse or something. My friend stands up turns around and as Im looking at his face it goes white " It's a bear man " I turn around and through a blueberry bush 6feet around is this bear. Grab gun shoot was my answer
Bear ran off with a hole in its upper sholder and some powder burns.
If it was a griz it would have probably killed us for my bad shot at that range no time to look through the scope.

[fozzy]

Great post Vinny I'm glad you brought it up. For those of us that have had little or no experience with them it's good to hear from those that have and try to learn from others experiences.

On the Sept long weekend I was in a similar position with a hunting partner. My first Grizz experience.

We had just set up camp above the tree line. On the way in we saw where a bear had been digging up marmots. We were doing some glassing having a late lunch when we spotted a bear heading up hill as he was looking around and huffing or loud sniffing, about 200 yards away. Obviously the wind was swirling and he got our scent. He started heading in our general direction. I had my boots off trying to dry off from the hike in, I quickly lashed them up. :) As we were getting to a better vantage point he spotted us moving so we started waving and yelling. Once he spotted us he pretty much came straight towards us. Not on a run or anything but certainly fast enough for my liking. We tried to stay on high ground and keep an eye on him. At one point we lost sight and he had closed the distance to about 25 yards. He didn't act aggresive like popping teeth or anything like that but he sure wasn't scared and made no attempt to avoid us, way different than any black bear that I've dealt with which here on the island usually run away more scared of humans than they should be.

After he checked us out for a bit he just wandered off and dissapeared behind some scrub brush and we backed away and again went to high ground over looking where our tent was. We each were packing 308's, mine being a single shot (loaded too long to fit in mag box) with 150tsx's. Both of us would have at least felt better with something bigger. The TSX's would have done the job just fine, I'm certainly glad it didn't come to that.

At this point it was getting late in the afternnon and we decided to pack up rather than see if he would return and have to deal with him again after dark or if we had shot something would he be back. This all transpired less than 100 yards from where we pitched our tent...so we decided it just wasn't worth the risk so we packed up and hiked out. I wish the hunt would have played out better but it sure could have been worse. I'm sure he could cover 25 yards pretty quick.
At one point my partner said to put my rifle down and get a couple pictures, I wasn't too sure but did snap a few. He stood fully broadside and would have made a perfect pic but the bloddy camera didn't refresh fast enough.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/09_grizz.jpg

Sorry to highjack your thread Vinny:oops: just thought I'd share.

[35 Whelen]

Sounds to me like the bear wasn't quite sure what you were. If he is standing on his hind legs he is trying to get a better view and may have been trying to cast for your scent....if his head was going side to side he is casting for scent.

He obviously heard you, but couldn't make out what you were. Speak in a moderate tone and back away slowly. I have heard that yelling as loudly as you can may incite a bear at close range to charge....ever heard a grizzly roar...sounds just like a man would yelling at the top of his lungs. So sound like a human, and not a trespassing grizzly. I think that once he got your scent, he would drop and leave.

You were wise to single out his ears, one sure fire way to read a charge is ears lying flat, hair on the hide laying flat and looks shiny like new paint....the all time sure fire sign he is going to carry out a charge is running low to the ground like an alligator. He is trying to keep his center of mass or balance low to the ground, so that when he hits you he is hard to flip and expose his vitals....remember he is going to attack you like you were another bear.

You did well........you came home to fight another day.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I am much,much more afraid of blacks than I am of grizzly. Blacks are ALWAYS sneaky, stealthy, quiet stalkers. More often than not, griz announce themselves by huffing, popping, and thrashing. There are always exceptions

I have no answer because I was not wearing your shorts. A grizzly 15m uphill is not a good situation - gun or no gun.

As srupp said, when the bear is standing up on hind legs it is trying to identify you. Down on all fours and you'd best have a bead on him. Most times it happens too fast to think much.

[ROEBUCK]

ive never been in a bad situation with a dangerous big game animal! so im only talking from behind the screen here!
but sure you have better odds of making a successfull chest shot,but would that be enough?
african professional hunters always take brain shots on dangerous charging animals,so why would a grizz be diferant?
ive blown the lungs right out of small deer and they have still gone 50 metres so what could a lung shot grizz do to ya!!
hope i never need to test 1 out!!

[killman]

ive never been in a bad situation with a dangerous big game animal! so im only talking from behind the screen here!
but sure you have better odds of making a successfull chest shot,but would that be enough?
african professional hunters always take brain shots on dangerous charging animals,so why would a grizz be diferant?
ive blown the lungs right out of small deer and they have still gone 50 metres so what could a lung shot grizz do to ya!!
hope i never need to test 1 out!!

You don't really want to know:shock:. I would think at that distance he could mess you up really bad without lungs or a heart.

[steepNdeep]

Sorry bout the sleep thing, but if your gonna go into bear country ya gotta believe you are gonna have contact with them(hopefully not as close as mine but belive me, it gets easier after the first couple of experiences)

I was kidding - I LIVE in bear country. I have several blacks that live around the property and grizz that cruise through at times. I have been stalked and charged by blacks. Almost every day that I hunt is in grizz country. I have had them in my scope on several occasions, but usually spot them first and have yet to have a showdown with one. I'm sure that I will eventually...

I have slept close to alpine, solo, in the bear burrito the last 2 weekends in a row. I want to be awake and aiming my gun when a grizz comes into camp... I get a good rest BUT like I said sleep is overrated in bear country! :shock: :biggrin:

[ROEBUCK]

You don't really want to know:shock:. I would think at that distance he could mess you up really bad without lungs or a heart.


yeah aint that the truth!!!
ive seen video footage in africa when they brain shoot charging bull elephant and they drop on the spot when hit in the brain. and the 1 time when it didnt penetrate fully it still nocked it over and they spined it as it turned to run away!!
those ph,s have some big sweet peas

[ROEBUCK]

can you imagine a 6 ton bull hefalump bearing down on ya with its ears flaping and it screaming with anger, those guys are as cool as it gets!! to stay calm enough to shoot straight must take some doing!!!

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I dont mind being in an area with lots of huge piles of bear crap. At least you know there is a bear in the area and you also know he has been eating well. They are voracious in the late fall. Kill a man with one swat and eat him - bones and all - in minutes.

[ferndogger]

I think you made a good choice. It sounds like he was just checking the situation out. Good to be ready to shoot if you need but if he wasnt showing any signs of aggression let him be. I would say most of the time they will go on there way without incident, unless its a sow with cubs, you suprise it, or come across a fresh kill. Theres a good chance he was listening to the bugle as well.

[Gateholio]

ive never been in a bad situation with a dangerous big game animal! so im only talking from behind the screen here!
but sure you have better odds of making a successfull chest shot,but would that be enough?
african professional hunters always take brain shots on dangerous charging animals,so why would a grizz be diferant?
ive blown the lungs right out of small deer and they have still gone 50 metres so what could a lung shot grizz do to ya!!
hope i never need to test 1 out!!

A bear standing on it's hind legs doens't offer much of a brain shot, but a chest shot is a sure thing.

If the bear is coming straight for you, on all 4 legs, aiming for the head/spine isnt' a bad idea. If you hit it in the CNS it will drop, and if you miss, you will take out a shoulder and penetrate down into the chest area, and most likely turn the charge.

Grizzlies are faster than buffalo, too. A lion woudl be faster, though.

[35 Whelen]

Brain shot is one tough shot to make in a panic situation. Elephant is one thing...a bear coming at you like an alligator is quite another. Last week when I was out I found an intact bear skull. I have hunted and killed lots of black bears, but never realized until I found this skull how small the brain area is, and how well protected it is.

Here is a shot of a skull.....front on Side...the area for the brain is tucked in between the eyes and does NOT extend out past the eye sockets at all.....small target about the size of a small grapefruit.

[ROEBUCK]

theres some great books about the early african proffesional hunteres
like jeferey bell and j.e hunter.around the 1920/30,s.
j.e hunter was hired by the tanzania railways to clear out dangerous game from areas were they were laying railway tracks, he shot more lions than enough wel in the hundreds. exciting books if your into that kinda stuff

[ROEBUCK]

Brain shot is one tough shot to make in a panic situation. Elephant is one thing...a bear coming at you like an alligator is quite another. Last week when I was out I found an intact bear skull. I have hunted and killed lots of black bears, but never realized until I found this skull how small the brain area is, and how well protected it is.

Here is a shot of a skull.....front on Side...the area for the brain is tucked in between the eyes and does NOT extend out past the eye sockets at all.....small target about the size of a small grapefruit.




a brain shot at an elephant is a very dificalt shot!!
they stand at about 10-12feet tall and when charging they tilt there heads back not a good situation to be in .and there sculls are about 2 inches thick

[TheDuckinator]

At 15 yards I would of squeezed, at 25 that's a very different story. But you obviously have much steelier nerves than I do.
Good Job

[elkdom]

Seems like you held it together pretty well... and you're still typin'.

At that distance CNS - spinal cord or brain are all that's gonna stop him in his tracks. The aim point if he's coming is just below the chin so that you catch his spine where it drops down from his neck.

You are gonna owe me some sleep - I'll be hikin' up in the dark and sleepin' in the bear burrito in big grizz country on Sat. night... Hopefully the bull's will be giving a show... Sleep is overrated anyways! ;)

x2 on the spinal column and the brain shots for a DEAD bear on the spot!
I have shot a 7 foot bear and watched him go 60 yards full speed ahead after his HEART was pulverized by a 338 Win mag shooting 250 grn Speer grand slam bullet fired at 40 yards, the bullet opened and exited with perfect performance, a heart shot only stops the heart, a bears heart beats at an incredible slow speed, the heart muscle can be totally destroyed, but NOW the entire system stoked and pumped by adrenaline, the bear still performs perfectly another 20/30 seconds,,, along time if your only 15/20/25 yards from him when you blow his heart to pieces,,,
on the other hand a 8 foot camp terrorizing BOAR grizzly shot between the eyes with a 30-06 shooting a 180 grn spitzer dropped like a ROCK, never even wiggled! his head measuring over 21 inches resembled a rotting watermelon and just about totally void of bones, only juicy stuff for a head! from a 180 soft point spitzer, leaving the 06 at about 2700fps,,,

I'll take the head shot if possible thank you! :shock:

[Tikatack]

elkdom, you gotta that right! Mr Grizz has too much energy and power within 40 yds to play around with a vitals shot when he makes the wrong decision.

I just got back from an encounter with a sow and three two year olds, one who decided to play curious george once I got winded. It was just over 100 yds away though and I managed to sneak away, although the rest of the day made me a little cautious. I was in 7-50 and between two of us we saw 7 grizz in five days of active hunting. Interestingly, there's only 1 LEH allocation for the region. Something is way wacked!

Its just too bad there aren't anymore grizz left in BC :roll:

[srupp]

hmmm hi Doug!..

What this entails is a lot more complicated than where to shoot..fact is the average guy would shit his pants BIG TIME in this situation his nerves jello..and his ability to stay calm and relaxed and to slow everything down and do whats right the first time and perfectly..most guys just cant do that..Ive seen it over and over and over again over 30 plus years..

sorrry most John Wayne wannna be's end up pulling PeeWee Herman manovers...yes some like the guy on BCTV stay calm and fight off a grizzly with a arrow...

I have had a fair amount of grizzly hunters and some in spite of a very direct instruction on when and where to shoot still want to do their own thing against the advice ....

I have seen bears shot in the side of the neck..had the bear come it could have been nasty..I have seen clear misses...at very close sudden encounters..
Some folks believe bigger is better so they show up with a .754 remchucker mangelum rifle..more afraid of recoil and the rifle than the bear..and very limited experience shooting the new gem...

The head is just a no win shot.....perhaps one in a thousan with a elevated position shooting down...but a 8 foot grizzly standing on its hind feet you are shooting up..ther is no shot at the head...none..

The neck where it joins the spine is "doable" but not by many weekend warriors..

Its one thing to sit at your computer with a beer and expound advice..some by folks that have never shot a grizzly..or been 15 yards from one standing up...

I dont get my financial advice over the computer its too important..same for close encounters of a grizzly kind..:shock:..

Dave and Rob experienced a grizzly charge by a sow with cubs @ Kwatna this spring..fast and furious..no warning..you MUST have a game plan a head of time..

Yes there are signs a bear gives but most guys are so preocupied with the fact its a grizzly they cant tell you what the bears ears were doing flat ..for protection equals a charge..or up listening and vulnerable..still deciding..

A bullet, quality stout bullet as all should be when in grizzly territory..shot at a grizzly at 15 yards dead center of the chest..will drive completely through the bear , sending bone and such through its vitals...and if center through the spine..

There are 2"sure drop em in their tracks shots..

1) brain shot..not doable on a standing grizzly @ 15 yards for reasons already discussed

2) spine..only spine showing is from his chin to where the neck joins the body..maybe 11-14 inches long and under 2 inches across..(thats being generous ) pretty small target uNDER EXTREME pressure...

Anyhow thats my experience...and a bear hit center chest with that .300rum is a lot more dead than a close shot or one that misses the spine as ina neck shot..and at that range there is no plan B...

And YES if done right on a standing bear the spine shot will drop em I have succesfully HAD TO do this...its what i was given..but I considered myself experienced and in that situation it was the right choice..
Steven

[elkdom]

hmmm hi Doug!..

What this entails is a lot more complicated than where to shoot..fact is the average guy would shit his pants BIG TIME in this situation his nerves jello..and his ability to stay calm and relaxed and to slow everything down and do whats right the first time and perfectly..most guys just cant do that..Ive seen it over and over and over again over 30 plus years..

sorrry most John Wayne wannna be's end up pulling PeeWee Herman manovers...yes some like the guy on BCTV stay calm and fight off a grizzly with a arrow...

I have had a fair amount of grizzly hunters and some in spite of a very direct instruction on when and where to shoot still want to do their own thing against the advice ....

I have seen bears shot in the side of the neck..had the bear come it could have been nasty..I have seen clear misses...at very close sudden encounters..
Some folks believe bigger is better so they show up with a .754 remchucker mangelum rifle..more afraid of recoil and the rifle than the bear..and very limited experience shooting the new gem...

The head is just a no win shot.....perhaps one in a thousan with a elevated position shooting down...but a 8 foot grizzly standing on its hind feet you are shooting up..ther is no shot at the head...none..

The neck where it joins the spine is "doable" but not by many weekend warriors..

Its one thing to sit at your computer with a beer and expound advice..some by folks that have never shot a grizzly..or been 15 yards from one standing up...

I dont get my financial advice over the computer its too important..same for close encounters of a grizzly kind..:shock:..

Dave and Rob experienced a grizzly charge by a sow with cubs @ Kwatna this spring..fast and furious..no warning..you MUST have a game plan a head of time..

Yes there are signs a bear gives but most guys are so preocupied with the fact its a grizzly they cant tell you what the bears ears were doing flat ..for protection equals a charge..or up listening and vulnerable..still deciding..

A bullet, quality stout bullet as all should be when in grizzly territory..shot at a grizzly at 15 yards dead center of the chest..will drive completely through the bear , sending bone and such through its vitals...and if center through the spine..

There are 2"sure drop em in their tracks shots..

1) brain shot..not doable on a standing grizzly @ 15 yards for reasons already discussed

2) spine..only spine showing is from his chin to where the neck joins the body..maybe 11-14 inches long and under 2 inches across..(thats being generous ) pretty small target uNDER EXTREME pressure...

Anyhow thats my experience...and a bear hit center chest with that .300rum is a lot more dead than a close shot or one that misses the spine as ina neck shot..and at that range there is no plan B...

And YES if done right on a standing bear the spine shot will drop em I have succesfully HAD TO do this...its what i was given..but I considered myself experienced and in that situation it was the right choice..
Steven

well the "terrorizing 8 ft Grizzly" was eating our tent and it was quite dark, and being "Scottish" by decent I only grabbed one 3006 round from my pants, and went out in my skivvies to wreak pain on the poor Gbear, as for 3 nights he had terrorized our camp, took 2 quarters of moose and one quarter of bull elk, my 2 buddies I was sharing the tent with were locked in thier pick up by the time the echo subsided in the valley from my shot with the 06, and they continued to be suspisious of my behavior and bad habbits throughout the following years, now they hunt from motor homes, but I still like sleeping in tents! It works for me! :wink:
and so does the head shots, several times, several bears :o

[denali]

ok so lets say the bear is standing on his hind legs and facing you. is his heart more on the left side like a human or is it located else where. and is it different for blacks then grizzlies?

stefan

Bear and human anatomy is quite similar, with the heart being in the centre of chest.... only slightly bulging to the left....have a look...

http://streetanatomy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/gummy_anatomy.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3184/3019259154_c3c622feab_o.jpg

[landphil]

Once he saw ULTRA and MAGNUM stamped on your barrel he decided to wander - maybe you should get some big stickers:biggrin:


It sounds like you made the right call - as already posted a bear on it's hinds is a curious bear, and you were a funny looking elk to him. Here's another option if you're on horses :grin: - dem dare boyz gotz mor guts den mehttp://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/pic1.jpg

[Little Hawk]

After my first Griz encounter I decided afterwards that NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO WHILE IN THE MOMENT bothered me as much as the fear of the incident.
So I resolved that never again would I have to turn to someone else for advise during a bear encounter. I devoured all the books I could on the subject when I got home.

I can't believe how many 'cowboys' on this forum are so quick to advise about 'shooting in the nuts...' or 'brain-shot's' or whatever.

FACT IS: IN THE MOMENT YOU'LL BE LUCKY TO HIT A FUC#ING BARN!

Why don't more of the seasoned members here recommend good reading material (like Shelton or Herrero) to hunter's who don't know what to do?
There would/will be more bears and hunter's unscathed in BC as a result.

Seems 'Coop' is the only one to pipe-up (..."Center of mass") that's read Shelton.

Don't we owe it to new-hunters and to each other to offer the best advise possible - especially when there are lives at stake?

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I would have casually lit up an H1N1 twister and blew calming smoke rings at him.

Nuttin "cowboy" about this response. If a bear is above you there is a good chance the smoke rings will waft upwards right into his brain - even if he is standing erect on his hinds.

[srupp]

Actually spend some time talking with Gary James Sheldon...I also had the privilege of having Clayton Mack , Betty Franks..and numerous others..whole different perspective

Best learning is a close encounter with MR G BEAR..then things get real... FAST...

Steven

[THE SWEDE]

110 TTSX outta a 270 Win at 3500 FPS

[Sunny]

I will shoot

[elkdom]

After my first Griz encounter I decided afterwards that NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO WHILE IN THE MOMENT bothered me as much as the fear of the incident.
So I resolved that never again would I have to turn to someone else for advise during a bear encounter. I devoured all the books I could on the subject when I got home.

I can't believe how many 'cowboys' on this forum are so quick to advise about 'shooting in the nuts...' or 'brain-shot's' or whatever.

FACT IS: IN THE MOMENT YOU'LL BE LUCKY TO HIT A FUC#ING BARN!

Why don't more of the seasoned members here recommend good reading material (like Shelton or Herrero) to hunter's who don't know what to do?
There would/will be more bears and hunter's unscathed in BC as a result.

Seems 'Coop' is the only one to pipe-up (..."Center of mass") that's read Shelton.

Don't we owe it to new-hunters and to each other to offer the best advise possible - especially when there are lives at stake?

well this "cowboy" is just telling it like it is, what works for me! so after(being there) for the killing about 35/40 GBears over the years doesn't qualify me for being "Experienced" at dispatching Gbears, then I apologize, and as for what it takes to kill a GBear, basically it just takes a well placed shot, nothing magical, nothing mystical,no tremendous powerful weapon, Gbears die quite easy in fact!, way easier than the average elk, as there is more chance of falling in your shower and dying than being killed by a Gbear, Im going to go have a shower,,,:eek: wish me luck,,,:lol:

[LYKTOHUNT]

Just curious, say you did shoot at 15 yards whether or not the bear was showing aggression ,what are the legal ramifications If you have no tag or no open season. (you are scared or feel threatened real or not)
We had a grizz in our camp 3-32 twice and maybe three times as we had to get up in the night to catch our horses when they broke off the tether line first two times was in the daylight and he showed no aggression, so we just kept an eye on him ,he took his time and moved off down the mountain both times. I really have no desire to shoot a grizz at any time so do not get tags or pay attention to whether there are seasons or not.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

I don't like the triple shock in the .375 offerings (I tried the 270gr). Neither does another fellow I know in the Yukon who has had poor luck with them (250gr IIRC).

The good 'ol Hornady or Partition is just fine. I'm also more concerned about what happens inside the critter as opposed to the size of the exit wound.

Well all the guys I have hunted with in Alaska love the 300 gr triple shok offering.

I have recently turned on a comrade in Kamchatka to the same bullet. He reports of great success.

[TSW]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/506/BlackBearShotplacment.jpg

Found this from an old post. I personally would not shoot a bear standing on it's hind legs. I've heard of too many bears that have been "flattened" and then ran away (and were never recovered) from chest shots while standing or sitting upright. After reading Shelton's stuff, I am of the opinion that if it's coming at you, you hold on the center of mass and shoot, although there is no such thing as an "ideal" shot when being charged. If there was I'd wait for him to quarter away or turn broadside!! :biggrin:
With the way bears are protected (or overprotected) these days, if you shot a bear in that situation, with it standing and not aggressively coming at you, you would be having a lot of meetings with the C.O.'s, no doubt resulting in punishment (fines/charges). It's unfortunate, but the anti's raise such a stink about bears dying that that's what it's come to. Makes a guy tempted to shoot, shovel and shut up if he's ever put in a situation where he needed to kill a bear out of self defense.
Just my 2 cents.

[1899]

Well all the guys I have hunted with in Alaska love the 300 gr triple shok offering.

I have recently turned on a comrade in Kamchatka to the same bullet. He reports of great success.

Going from memory here:

.375 H&H
Muzzle vel - just under 2800fps
distance - ~90 yards
media - wet newsprint

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/1899/270gr.jpg



Bullet on left is 160gr XLC from 7mm Mag, same day, same distance, same media, very similar penetration and, as you can see, similar frontal area. Muzzle velocity ~2900 fps.



http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/1899/Xbullets.jpg


The hunter from the Yukon has recovered 250gr TSXs from moose....and it ain't pretty. He has since switched back to Hornady Interlocks.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Well that settles it. I'm going to steal a big bundle of The Province, soak it down and perform the experiment for myself.

Shame. Such a waste of good firestarter.

[Gateholio]

Phil Shoemaker (Alaskan grizzly guide) says his favorite .375 bullet is the 270gr TSX.

I guess it works for him. I've yet to shoot an animal with one, and haven't tried any tests, either.

[Orangethunder]

Good post, being very close to a grizzly is no fun at all. I'm very glad for your sake it didn't charge and that all ended well. Yes, chest shots work on charging bears.

[1899]

Phil Shoemaker (Alaskan grizzly guide) says his favorite .375 bullet is the 270gr TSX.

I guess it works for him. I've yet to shoot an animal with one, and haven't tried any tests, either.

If you recall I offered them to you free of charge. PM me when you are in Vancouver and we can get together. Why Not? from CGN is the fellow who also had bad luck with them. And you know he is not one to bs.

[Vinny]

This was my complete thought process in the closest chronocological order that I could remember:

1. holy shit a g-bear
2. one in pipe, safety off, point it at the bear
3. slowly walk back, but don't act like your fleeing
4. f#ck thats a big bear and I'm 2 hours from nearest road
5. wonder if I should aim at head instead of chest, nah, I might miss and I'm only gonna have one shot at this if needed
6. watch his ears, if they fold back, pull the trigger
7. is he ever gonna leave?
8. f#ck, if he don't leave soon, I'm gonna shoot
9. he's moving, get ready
10. wonder how fast I can make it back to the Jeep, I think I'll go home and cut the grass!!
11. I HATE G-BEARS
12. I wonder how far he was from me(I then ranged where he stood and then left the area)

This is as accurate as I can come up with from memory. Most of my decisions fall in well with alot of the advice I have heard here. Also, a good source of info for me was a tour through the Bear exhibit in Innisfail, AB. Houses some of the most famous kodiak bears in the world and you can meet them and get pics with them, and the trainer has some great info on bear behaviour that she shares with you.

Funny thing is that during her speeches on how to keep safe in a bear situation, I was whispering to my wife that I would just pump it full of lead. Well, I guess I was wrong!!

Thanks for the great info:eek:

[springpin]

Pucker factor of 10..Good decision, and even better result.

[Little Hawk]

Bit of a delay here (computer down).

Clarification: When I referred to some of the poster's to this thread as "Cowboys" I fear some of you may have taken it out of context.

Truly, I intended no insults or defamation. Poor choice of word I suppose.

Read too many raunchy bear-stories...

[BiG Boar]

Another thing to know, because chance favours the prepared mind is what you are going to do if the bear is actually charging you (after you fire your first shot and hes on top of you), and what to do if he is mauling someone, or even mauling a tent someone is in. If he is mauling someone, I have heard to shoot him in the arse, and if you shot him and you have no time to reload, do you swing your gun at him, or do you lay on your back, with fingers interlaced behind your head with your legs spread so he cant flip you over that easy. Or do you fire your second shot at your buddy, give the bear some bait. Personally, I dont think the writer here really reacted at all, more just froze like a deer in the headlights, and I would probably have done the same thing. Same as an intruder in the house. Do you have a plan of action?

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Another thing to know, because chance favours the prepared mind is what you are going to do if the bear is actually charging you (after you fire your first shot and hes on top of you), and what to do if he is mauling someone, or even mauling a tent someone is in. If he is mauling someone, I have heard to shoot him in the arse, and if you shot him and you have no time to reload, do you swing your gun at him, or do you lay on your back, with fingers interlaced behind your head with your legs spread so he cant flip you over that easy. Or do you fire your second shot at your buddy, give the bear some bait. Personally, I dont think the writer here really reacted at all, more just froze like a deer in the headlights, and I would probably have done the same thing. Same as an intruder in the house. Do you have a plan of action?

I am signed up for online "ninja" lessons thanks to THE SWEDE.

[1899]

Another thing to know, because chance favours the prepared mind is what you are going to do if the bear is actually charging you (after you fire your first shot and hes on top of you), and what to do if he is mauling someone, or even mauling a tent someone is in. If he is mauling someone, I have heard to shoot him in the arse, and if you shot him and you have no time to reload, do you swing your gun at him, or do you lay on your back, with fingers interlaced behind your head with your legs spread so he cant flip you over that easy. Or do you fire your second shot at your buddy, give the bear some bait. Personally, I dont think the writer here really reacted at all, more just froze like a deer in the headlights, and I would probably have done the same thing. Same as an intruder in the house. Do you have a plan of action?

Oh my....:???:

Where to begin with this post?

[Gateholio]

If you recall I offered them to you free of charge. PM me when you are in Vancouver and we can get together. Why Not? from CGN is the fellow who also had bad luck with them. And you know he is not one to bs.


I forgot about that! yes thanks! :)

[BigBear.338]

pull the trigger with in 30yrs your life is worth more than his especially,if you have kids or family.

[Vinny]

Another thing to know, because chance favours the prepared mind is what you are going to do if the bear is actually charging you (after you fire your first shot and hes on top of you), and what to do if he is mauling someone, or even mauling a tent someone is in. If he is mauling someone, I have heard to shoot him in the arse, and if you shot him and you have no time to reload, do you swing your gun at him, or do you lay on your back, with fingers interlaced behind your head with your legs spread so he cant flip you over that easy. Or do you fire your second shot at your buddy, give the bear some bait. Personally, I dont think the writer here really reacted at all, more just froze like a deer in the headlights, and I would probably have done the same thing. Same as an intruder in the house. Do you have a plan of action?


I wouldn't say I froze, I would say I did as good as possible within the situation. All things considered, I have to believe that you can only have the knowledge to aid in this type of situation, you cannot "plan" what you are gonna do.

As far as what to do if a bear is mauling someone else, that is a whole other situation that brings up lots of other questions that could be a whole other thread.

Thanks for the info though.

[dutchie]

The grizz would have been in my personal bubble! I think any predetor within 15 yds is a personal bubble invasion.

With that being said I would have done the same thing that the majority would have done.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you would be able to tell if him standing on his back legs it was of inquisition or threat.

and my thoughts are a 300rum is plenty with the right bullet, I always load Barnes beacuase of the penetration, and in my 30-06 and I would be confident it was stop any bear if needed.

I have a 45/70 that I would use if I was in Grizz country.

Dutchie

[Bearen 09]

thats real close but i hope you waited for him to come down.i've seen them turn almost 90 degrees as they come from hinds to all fours.if he hasn't come at you by now i would hope he's thinking about booking the f outa there.safety off, finger on and muzzle on the bear.leave your shorts on the mountain no sense hiking two hours with that mess chafing you the whole way.
I couldn't agree more. just make sure you dig a big hole for your shorts so he can't find you later.:twisted: