GSP training around PG

[moosetaken]

Hi all. I've got a 7 month old GSP that has had limited training. I'm hoping to find someone with a GSP or other pointer that would be willing to give me a few pointers and maybe allow me to bring her along on a few hunts and let her work with an experienced dog. I've had her out 4 times since the season opened and she's fine with the shooting but not to sure on pointing or retrieving yet.

[RyanGSP]

Where are you located? I got a 3.5 year old Broke GSP and a 8 year old Irish Setter you could use.

[moosetaken]

I'm in Prince George. She's been a pretty good dog but the whole recall thing just hasn't been working out too well. If she is given half a chance she's got her nose down and is GONE. I've had dogs my whole life and never had a runner like this. This last weekend a hunting camp she took off and one of the guys found her 15 minutes later about 4kms down the main line. I've never used an E collar but I'm thinking I might need one for her. Ryan I'd love to take her out with your dog on a grouse road for some experience but after this weekend I'm a little nervous.

[RyanGSP]

An ecollar is only a training too to reinforce known commands. I have never used one on my GSP (have used them on my setter and other dogs). I find dogs get collar smart and you start to rely on them too much. There will come a time when you need your dog to come or whoa and you wont have that ecollar.

I train with a pinch Callar (J.A.S.A) and a CC. Start in the yard and work your way into the woods as she masters it.

[moosetaken]

Ryan: Thanks for the tip. are you in the PG area? I'm going to focus on getting the recall issue solved before letting her off leash in the bush so this hunting season is out but by late next summer or early fall we would be looking to go along with an experienced dog & see how it's done.

[dutchie]

I have a question for you... Has your pup been on a leash pretty much it entire life?

There is a great book called the Drathaar Training Maunal that outlines behaviour like this.

E-collars used incorrectly will destroy a dog and you will have a dog that will never listen. The reason is because the the over use of the collar will make the dog take the attitude... "well if I do it I get zapped, if I don't I will get zapped... screw this I ain't doing anything".

If was you I would get a 30 foot check cord and use a C and enforce comands with tonnes of praise when the pup does what you want and a correction when not. The correction I use is a slight tug on the CC. I am training my pup this way and I have never used treats to get the dog to do what I want.

I do not use treats because dogs have better noses then us and if we don't have a treat, you will never get the dog you want strictly on command, they will learn to listen only when you have a treat.

I will upgrade to a Pinch collar when the CC proves to be uneffective. 8 months and proves to still be effective.

Dutchie

[moosetaken]

Dutchie: Yes she's allways been on a leash. I will check out the book you suggested. I had been trying to train her with only positive reinforcement and treats. This works in the house where she's happy to do whatever you want but outside no way. It seems all the praise and treats in the world can't compete with all the interesting smells and sights, nevermind how much she likes to just run when she's outside. I'm going to have to toss the halti and new age positive energy training books and get back to basics. I'll start with a choke chain and if needed move to a pinch collar. Do you use an e collar when you are hunting with your dog or do you find you don't need one? Thanks for the tips and advice I've had dogs my whole life and been a hunting nut for the last 15 years (slow starter) but never tried to combine the two.

[RyanGSP]

The trick is to start now in the yard. Get her on a Ceckcord and let her run around (make sure you always have 1 end of the CC). When she isnt paying attention to you use your recall. Only say it once if she doesnt listen haul her in at a good pace. When she gets to you praise her "Good Girl "insert name" and let her go off again. Eventually she is going to be reliable 99% of the time this is when you can take the CC off and work without it for a few sessions.

Trust me they hear you in the yard they are just ignoring you.

Once she is returning everytime you call start inserting distractions (with checkrod to start it can be taken off as she goes but always put it back on when introducing new things), kids playing, a ball being throw, anything that will make her not want to listen because there are better things. Once she is 100% on that you can start laying bird scent in the yard but dont leave a bird out we are not working on pointing here, this is where you were having problems so this is why the scent.
You dont need game birds. I pigeon will do just fine, let it walk around in the yard rub it around on things. Dont make the yard 1 big scent pile but lay a couple good patches. Then start your recall training, especially when she hits scent. Now this is important you dont want your dog returning to you every time she makes game so sometime recall her right away as soon as she hits scent and sometimes let her sort it out for a minute or 2. If you keep recalling her as soon as she makes scent she is going to keep returning to you.

Once she has mastered this in the yard move out into a school field back to square 1. Once she has that mastered and you are able to recall her from as far as she is willing to run you can move into the actual field. But remember start from square 1 everytime.

Never make the sessions too long if you see the dog getting board its time to stop, it was time to stop a few minutes ago. You never want the dog to get board. 5 10 minutes to start 15 at the most 2 or 3 times a day is perfect but you can do at your own pace to your own schedule. Also always end the training on a positive note, anything works, a treat with some praise, a few pets a quick play session.

The last thing to remember is never give a command when you think the dog isnt going to listen and you have no way to reinforce it. Your better off making the recall, if she blows you off run her down and haul her back.

This is how I trained my guy, it took alot of work but I can call him off anything now, running rabbits, deer, even females in heat.

If you pick up "Wing and Shot" by Robert G. Wehel it is a very good training book anyone with a pointing breed should own. My other book I reccomend is "The Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog, the Delmar Smith Method" By Bill Tarrent. This is also a very good book.

[Kasomor]

I agree with all the recall training advice that RyanGSP has given.

After doing everything he advises so your dog knows what a recall is....get an e-collar, learn from a knowledgeable person how to use it and re-enforce the recall with it.

I'm really glad that RyanGSP and Dutchie have never lost a dog in the bush, to the front end of a car, drowning, or coyote, etc...becuase their dogs always come back to them.

I have known dogs lost to all the above. All the owners felt their dogs had a solid recall.

However, besides keeping your dog on leash, NOTHING makes a recall more solid then a dog that is properly collar conditioned. And all the dogs above would be alive if they had been wearing a collar and their owners known how to use it!! :mad:

My personal dogs hunt with their e-collars on all the time. Rarely do I use the collar in a hunting situation but if needed it is there. Like when Yogi comes out from behind the corn patch and they want to go check him out. I'm not going to rely on their re-call to get them back to me lickety-split!!

If all you ever use the e-collar for is the recall I would consider it money and time well spent. It may just save your dogs life one day.

Regards,
Kasomor

[RyanGSP]

After you do what I explained you wont need a ecollar to reinforce the return command :tongue:

[rchoward101]

skeena is from Geneva and Indiana's litter in july last year. Our ryan you dog looks like a clone...minus the markings...special dogs...special dogs.http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=15724&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=955 (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/../photos/showphoto.php?photo=15724&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=955)