Legality question on shotgun bear defense!

[killerkevin]

Howdy
I am going out bowhunting and want to bring my 12 gauge shotgun for peace of mind/bear defense. Now this is a 6 shot capacity shotgun and of your hunting you would need to put plugs in there and make it a 3 shot. Would I need to do the same if i am using the shotgun strictly for defense while bowhunting?

I hope I'm allowed to have all 6 shots in my shotgun for defense! for the bears sake! because if I have an encounter with a bear I would like to use the first 1-2 shots to scare the bear away and give it a better chance of surviving our encounter. Now if i only have 3 shots then potentially I would have to kill this pissed off bear with one shot!. So if thats the case I'd be hesitant about wasting ammo on warning shots.

Anyway if anyone can help me out on the legality of this I would appreciate it alot!

I tried calling the government for the information but all I get is recorded messages or anybody I did get through to didn't have a clue.

[kastles]

As far as I can tell no. I'm not. Regs say allowed more than 3 shots when single projectile.

[killerkevin]

Ok so I should be fine I fully load it with slugs?

[BCBigGame]

If you shoot a bear in self defense you will need a valid bear licence or you will face potential charges under the Wildlife act

[killerkevin]

To hunt bear you require a tag... but to defend my life I have to buy a permit for that? i don't think so... "here is a permit to defend your own life" You know the government controlls too much when...

[MadCat]

If you shoot a bear in self defense you will need a valid bear licence or you will face potential charges under the Wildlife act

Where did you get that from? If I'm getting attacked by a bear and its threating my life I don't need a tag to kill it. And how am I supposed to get a grizzly tag in the koots in the fall if that was true. I used to carry a defender loaded up with 6 shells and never had a problem when I ran into a gamewarden. I believe if its for protection then theres nothing that they can do about it unless they can prove that you were trying to harvest game with it.

[killerkevin]

yeah i didn't think so kenkell... lol Imagine ya needed a permit to defend your own life? good lord!. I was actually planning on doing that combo ammo in my shotgun originally 00buck/slug/00buck/slug etc... But is it legal to do that up to 6 shots? or I guess if it is suppossed to be single projectile only I could load it with 6 slugs... should still be effective!

[lilhoss]

Are you going hunting in an area that holds alot of bears that attack humans? Why take a shotgun at all?Take all your precautions,look "large" when you encounter one,can of bear spray maybe, etc.If you are confident with your bow,shouldn't really need a gun.To answer your original question,should have the plug in.The CO 's won't care if a bear was charging you or not.

[killerkevin]

Hey Madcat thanks for the input! sounds like I should be fine with 6 shots. in my opinion 3 shots is getting dangerous... as I was saying before 1-2 warning shots would be a nice luxury for you and the bear haha.

[killerkevin]

hey lilhoss I am pretty confident with my bow... it is the idea of re nocking another arrow in time that scares me haha. Just want that peace of mind a shotgun can offer haha. But anywhere in BC there is potential for black bear pretty much and I'm not worried and attacks aren't too common here that I know of. But just want that peace of mind before going on a trip... being prepared for the worst case scenerio. Although like I was saying none of this should be neccessary at all.

[bozzdrywall]

I just bought a shot gun for bear protection and it will hold 6 and i will load 6 in it when i go out. I would rather take a fine than my wife and kid take a trip to the morgue. No family needs to see that. If it ever came down to it, my life or the bears i will win every time no matter what the law says. I know iam not out there killing bears for fun its just in case the worst case happens.

[elkdom]

if a big bad bear decides to eat you? :-?

you will be lucky to get off the first shot! :eek:

even MORE lucky! to score a lethal hit on a charging bear :eek:

save money! one round is enough!:lol:

and remember :idea: feeding bears is illegal in BC,,,

[killerkevin]

I agree with ya 100% bozzdrywall! Obviously it's not likely to happen but nobody should have to take a chance on their own life!. I will also do everything in my power to avoid or scare the bear off. I would hate for the encounter to end up getting lethal, but I agree with uncle Ted Nugent on this one "Nobody is gonna tell me how, when or IF I can defend myself!!" Amen!

[MadCat]

The most important time to have that gun loaded up and ready too is after you have an animal on the ground.

[killerkevin]

Good call Madcat!

[303Brit]

You should be fine as long as you don't exceed 3 rounds of multi projectile, so your 00/slug/00 should be fine. However should you have an encounter and end up killing the animal you will then have to talk to the CO or warden about it. the other thing you can do is try to get the name of the area Supervisor, usallly emailling your regional office will get you that the fastest, then have a chat with him on the phone. This is one of the very few instances where sometimes it better to ask then beg for forgiveness.

My 303 cents

303Brit

[thecoug]

Howdy
I am going out bowhunting and want to bring my 12 gauge shotgun for peace of mind/bear defense. Now this is a 6 shot capacity shotgun and of your hunting you would need to put plugs in there and make it a 3 shot. Would I need to do the same if i am using the shotgun strictly for defense while bowhunting?

I hope I'm allowed to have all 6 shots in my shotgun for defense! for the bears sake! because if I have an encounter with a bear I would like to use the first 1-2 shots to scare the bear away and give it a better chance of surviving our encounter. Now if i only have 3 shots then potentially I would have to kill this pissed off bear with one shot!. So if thats the case I'd be hesitant about wasting ammo on warning shots.

Anyway if anyone can help me out on the legality of this I would appreciate it alot!

I tried calling the government for the information but all I get is recorded messages or anybody I did get through to didn't have a clue.

Herein lies the problem... Calling "the government" will not answer the questions appropriately.. Calling the local CO's office will...and they actually return their calls.. The biggest danger is relying on a forum for your legal defense... It is like a criminal trying to find his way around Martin's Criminal Code of Canada... you have to learn your way through it... ASK AN EXPERT.. Call your local CO's.. Most of them are real hunters as well.. good luck..
Just for a teaser... Is it lawful to shoot a bear raiding your hanging game in your camp??

[Jelvis]

KK - Don't forget that bear will make a fake charge at first, then stand up on hind legs and sniff, growl and then run away -- Pepper spray might help tho - if your real quick on the draw - don't get it in your own eyes by mistake-
Hey killer Kev, do like one hunter did -- she was hunting bear with a bow for the first time -- when all of a sudden the bushes right in front of her started shaking violently -- a huge black bruin stood up right with in arms reach -- she had no time for pepper spray -- so she reached out in a split second reaction and started scratching the bears tender under belly and the bear seemed to relax and even had a slight grin and closed it's eyes in pleasure - that's when the Lady bear hunter ran like crazy towards her vehicle and wandering how close the bear was, she looked around and the bear was still standing on it's hind feet at the same spot she had run from -- but it was waving for her to come back, I guess he liked the belly scratch to this day -
Jel -- scratch the bears belly when it stands up after the fake charge - ok

[30-378-magnum]

If you shoot a bear in self defense you will need a valid bear licence or you will face potential charges under the Wildlife act

you dont need a bear licence to protect yourself or your family from a bearif it is in your opinion posing a threat to your or any body with you [it must be a real threat not just looking at you from 100 yds]but if it isshowing aggression and you havetried to scare it away and it wont back down let the lead fly

[ROY-alty33]

Or spend the 15 bucks on the tag, and enjoy the sausage and hams.
Bear bangers and bear spray may be as effective as a 12 gauge, without the explinations.

[elk74]

I remember a question on the pal test that asked something along the lines of how many shells are you allowed in a shotgun used for anything other than hunting(dont recall the exact wording).The answer was as many as the gun will hold. So if its a defence weapon and not actually a hunting gun and it holds 6 than I would put 6 in it.

[rishu_pepper]

Be sure you're not using a semi-auto shotgun: for any semi's can only have 5 shots maximum (centrefire/shotgun) if memory serves.

If it's a pump, go at it. :)

[30-378-magnum]

Or spend the 15 bucks on the tag, and enjoy the sausage and hams.
Bear bangers and bear spray may be as effective as a 12 gauge, without the explinations.

i thought grizzlys were leh in most areas so much for the tag idea maybe i should consult with my lawyer before i shoot a bear that is about to eat me for lunch or maybe not

[killerkevin]

Yeah I'm actually planning on getting a bear tag anyway soon... But for this specific weekend hunt it will be bow only season and my shotgun will be around for defense only. I don't feel ready to take a bear with my bow yet either. This is actually my first year as a bowhunter! I'm shooting pretty good though so I'll work my way up to bowhuntin' bear!.

Once I am through this weekend trip I think I'll get that tag for the next trip!. For this trip I will definetly play it cool and by the book. I'll do everything i can to save the bears life if it encountered me... but once my life is in danger, I think I'll defend myself accordingly! 6 slugs should ensure my survival!

[killerkevin]

Oh and thecoug... as for your teaser question. I'm gonna say no it is not lawful... the bear is not posing a direct threat to you so you can not shoot it. Hmmm... wonder if you had a bear tag however... I guess that wouldn't be intentional baiting hahaha...

[killerkevin]

Jelvis I don't know if I would try scratching the bears belly! lol. thats impressive it worked for that brave woman! hahaha but if it failed to work your gonna be in a pretty serious kill zone!. lol

[Gateholio]

Easy answer- Load it with 6 slugs

You already have a deer tag, so there is zero question of legality. You are allowed to kill a deer with a slug. In the very unlikely event of a bear attack, you can kill it and it's legal if you feel you needed to preserve your life. MIght have to explain to CO's, but it shoudl go well if justified. And if you have a $20 bear tag, you dont' need to report, as long as it isn't a grizz.

The 3 shot rule for shotguns only applies to multiple projectiles, so the slugs are the way to go. As well as they are better suited to bear defense than buckshot,anyway.

And if it is bow only season? You dont' need a reason to carry a defense firearm with you 365 days a year in BC.

[Paulyman]

I think some light bird shot at 100 yards would make a bear think twice about coming any closer!

[35 Whelen]

Gatehouse has it right..

Load it to the nuts with 6 slugs..with bears you want to bust down his wheels in a charge....OO buck is just going to piss him off. Make the first one count and you shouldn't need anymore rounds...but if you do, guaranteed he is going to come headlong full speed. You want to penetrate deep at that point, and the only thing that will do that is slugs.

Just remember drop to one knee to get the the same level as the bear, then all you have to worry about is shooting straight. No ever declining angle as he comes in on you. Kneel and shoot straight.

[CabinFever]

Jelvis, that has to be the best story i've heard in a long time. That one will definately be passed on around my campfire this fall. :mrgreen:

[killerkevin]

Thank you very much gatehouse!! you have given me the clearest answer yet!. I will feel much more confident in the bush now! I'm happy i can go out and enjoy myself with peace of mind!

[killerkevin]

PS gatehouse how did you know I have a deer tag already? lol I didn't think I mentioned it in this thread.... maybe from another thread haha.

[Gateholio]

PS gatehouse how did you know I have a deer tag already? lol I didn't think I mentioned it in this thread.... maybe from another thread haha.

No, I just figured you were bowhunitng for deer. No Sherlock action here...

[bubba350]

The shotgun plug only applies to Migratory birds. I used to carry a 12 gauge defender with (6+1) 3" 00buck-slug-00buck-slug ect. when working in the bush. If your using a pistol grip go pracice "shooting from the hip" it takes some getting used to.

[bubba350]

I actually had to defend myself twice (1 black 1 grizz)and the 00buck works great to slow him down and the slug stopps him in his tracks. Just be sure to report it to a CO. They never gave me a problem.

[Gateholio]

The shotgun plug only applies to Migratory birds..

Not really correct. If you are HUNTING (any game) with a shotgun using SHOT, then you are limited to a plugged gun.

If you are HUNTING with single projectiles in your shotgun (slugs) there is no limit unless it is an auto loader, then it is governed by federal 5 shot semi auto laws.

if you are using a shotgun for DEFENSE then there are no restrictions on shotshells, but again SLUGS ARE BETTER. If you incorporate buckshot in your defense loads, the onus is on you to convince the CO that you are not HUNTING, which is probably not too hard, as most CO's are common sense people.

[troutseeker]

Yes, slugs are better. They weight more and hit harder, you don't want to slow down an attacking bear, you want to STOP it.

[sawmill]

I guided bears in Hazelton for free for friends and had a few real close encounters with grizz and blacks.
In heavy cover you don`t have time to aim and fire a slug accuratly,remember that sucker is popping up 30 feet away and coming hard.I used 000 buck-6 .36 cal pellets with a short barrel pump.With a slug you only get one chance,with 000 you get 6,all in the 2 seconds you have left to live.
Seriously,if you really need to use it you will only get one chance to make a first impression.00 ought gives you 8 .33 cal pellets and will cut down a 6 inch tree at 20 feet.That works great too,use 3.5 magnums.
If you need 6 shots then you are not in danger.
When the shit hits the fan you MIGHT get 1 shot.You WILL NOT be calm and cool and to accuratley aim a short shotgun with 1 slug while being charged by a pissed off wounded or agressive bear is damn near impossible.
I love that shit"drop to one knee"No offence but sometimes you don`t even have time to poop your pants.
Screw the slugs,go with the 12 inch wide pattern of 8 .33cal bullets.
Point and shoot at the face,it will tear him up something horrible at 20 feet,he ain`t going to want to eat you after that.
Saved my life.Remember Buck fever is bad,charging bear fever is deadly,with a slug you can easily miss,with double or triple you can destroy him .My 2 cents........and I`m still alive.:biggrin:

[Little Hawk]

Some good points here me thinks.
Sawmill knows; when the shit hits the fan you really will be lucky to get even one shot off. Maybe a good idea to start 'the dance' with big-buckshot cause it's likely the only shot you'll get.

I've experienced what happens to you when something the size of a Volkswagen with teeth and claws is charging at you faster than a quarter-horse...
first: the hair on the back of your neck stands on end and your heart begins to pound like a big-base-drum.
second: you think of your loved-ones and the prospect that you may never see them again.
third: if you're lucky and you don't 'freeze-up', your survival mechanism kicks in and you react.

I've said before and I'll say it again, everyone who spends time in bear-country should read Gary Shelton's work (Bear Encounter Survival Guide etc.) as well as Dr. Stephen Herrero's work (Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance) then people would be better prepared to survive encounters.

Bear attack is an unlikely yet very-real possibility in BC and I hope all my fellow hunting-brothers out there all get home safe!

My 2-bits.

[ferndogger]

Bring bear spray just as effective IMO

[lilhoss]

Bear Advisory



The Forest Service has issued a BEAR WARNING in the British Columbia forests for this summer. They're urging everyone to protect themselves by wearing bells and carrying pepper spray.

Campers should be alert for signs of fresh bear activity, and they should be able to tell the difference between Black Bear dung and Grizzy Bear dung.

Black Bear dung is rather small and round. Sometimes you can see fruit seeds and/or squirrel fur in it.

Grizzly Bear dung has bells in it, and smells like pepper spray!


..sorry,don't hate me,..couldn't resist :roll:

[d6dan]

I've said before and I'll say it again, everyone who spends time in bear-country should read Gary Shelton's work (Bear Encounter Survival Guide etc.) as well as Dr. Stephen Herrero's work (Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance) then people would be better prepared to survive encounters.
My 2-bits.

Both good books. After reading (Bear Attacks) It gave me a whole new perspective of bears. And some sleepless nights.

[d6dan]

Bear attack is an unlikely yet very-real possibility in BC and I hope all my fellow hunting-brothers out there all get home safe!
My 2-bits.

I knew a young guy who was killed and eaten by a black bear. He was working on a drill rig southeast of Stewart. The authorities later said that the bear had never seen a human before and saw him as a prey animal.

[Gateholio]

At 20 feet, the pattern of your buckshot is pretty damn tight. Miss with a slug, you woudl likely miss with buckshot too.

I used to use OO and slugs mixed in my shotgun, then I read in Gary Sheltons book about how buckshot is a poor choice, it didn't penetrate well on a couple of grizzly attacks he had documented, and thought about it for a bit, then did some tests.

I found the buckshot didn't open enough at close range to increase your hit potential, and when you got further away it was spotty about how many pellets woudl arrive on target in a cluster, and to be effective buckshot really needs to arrive en masse. Penetration tests were a no brainer, buckshot won't penetrate nearly as well as a slug.

There is no doubt that buckshot at close range is a real killer. But so is a slug, and a slug works close and far.

And heck, if you can find Brenneke slugs, they have been used to kill cape buffalo, hippo, etc. Buckshot wouldn't get that job done unless you were really lucky! :)

[Hidehanger]

lol....the day anyone can convice me that bear spray is as effective as a fully loaded 12 gauge is the day I'll eat my shorts....

Bear spray was invented so that during a bear attack you can spray pepper into your eyes and therefore not see yourself being eatin...it also adds a little flavour for the bear. ;)


Try this link and you decide....need some salt with those shorts? ;)
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

[Gateholio]

Bear spray is great if you are always in areas with no wind.:mrgreen:

[steepNdeep]

Hey Killer, If it's just black bears, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Between bear spray and your bow you should be fine.

I've hunted them with my bow and had many encounters inside of 30m. Grizz country on the other hand...

[shaner338]

I've been charged by many a black bear while bow hunting and they seem to stop within 20 yrds if you make alot of noise and stand your ground!! Not sure what happens if you were to turn and run or stick an arrow in them when they are charging..:biggrin:

[muledeercrazy]

Oh and thecoug... as for your teaser question. I'm gonna say no it is not lawful... the bear is not posing a direct threat to you so you can not shoot it. Hmmm... wonder if you had a bear tag however... I guess that wouldn't be intentional baiting hahaha...

i believe that it would be lawful, because the animal that the bear is attempting to eat is your property. It might not be legal to shoot a human to protect property, but a bear i believe you can.

[allan185]

well ive been out bow hunting , i bought a bear tag just in case i have to shoot and i carry a can of bear spray in case the arrow doesnt do the job !!! am i crazy ??

[killerkevin]

i believe that it would be lawful, because the animal that the bear is attempting to eat is your property. It might not be legal to shoot a human to protect property, but a bear i believe you can.

Hmm interesting... that would make sense!

[killerkevin]

well ive been out bow hunting , i bought a bear tag just in case i have to shoot and i carry a can of bear spray in case the arrow doesnt do the job !!! am i crazy ??
I probablly should have gotten a can of bear spray aswell, but I ran out of cash getting all the other supplies and really can't afford another 40 bucks for spray. But for now a shotgun will give me a secure feeling and maybe by next trip I'll have the spare cash for some spray aswell!

[allan185]

what i hope is that if it does happen will the spray work ? anyone ever had that happen ???

[Walksalot]

I have been charged by a black bear which had 3 cubs. She came out of the bush at 20 yds and stopped at 15 ft. I was unarmed at the time but it was a non issue as I didn't have time to put a decent load in my bloomers. Unless you have been there you have no idea how fast they can move.

[Little Hawk]

I remember reading some time ago that a Griz can outrun a quarter-horse in the 100 yd/dash. That's pretty damn fast!

I saw a piece of film some years ago (home video) shot by a hunter or camper. They were in the bush with a dog - another NO-NO in bear country - and I guess the dog (a German Shep/ if memory serves) had brought an enraged Griz back into camp (or back to where its master was). The footage was freaky!

The dog - obviously fearing for its life - takes off full-throttle with the Griz in tow. The guy filmed the two heading straight off into the distance down a wide path. I have to admit I was cheering for the dog but to no avail.

The film quality wasn't that good but you could just make out 'the end' of the chase happened about 200 yds out when the Griz reaches out and swipes the shepard's rear legs out from under him.

Doggy-lunch!

[Hidehanger]

IMO –A biased and an inaccurate article! (Liberal propaganda of course;-))

Scenario-You as a bow hunter have this enraged grizzly charging you at 30 to 40 ft. per second and you have the composure to spray with the little canister waiting until he’s less than ½ second away(20 ft.) & you really think that it will stop him. Give me a break! Crapola I say!
IMO-It’s better than nothing & just great when??? it works!

Here is a rebuttal (see part 1)- link
http://www.bearattackinformation.com/Bear_Spray.html (http://www.bearattackinformation.com/Bear_Spray.html)

Good reference...it does still state though that even those guys agree that spray is over 90% effective, but more importantly it shows that in their mock test that the 'hikers with guns lose' vs the 'hikers with free hands', in their cell phone challenge.
The original post was a KK going bowhunting and looking for options on protection...if the site you posted is accurate, then even they agree that he would be in trouble if he had to drop the bow and then get his gun...why carry the extra weight for something that won't work for you? Besides, his gun will likely be slung over his back otherwise its in his way if he's stalking or ready to shoot his bow, so how is he going to get that gun off and up and shoot in your example...he won't...
As for the 'enraged grizzly you mention, that's a whole new ball game and again, not what KK's original post asked...in your scenerio a shotgun is still likely mixed results...especially if he has to scramble to get it off his back.

[ROEBUCK]

i dont think its practical to pack a shotgun or a rifle while bow hunting as it gets in the way .ive tried and it is a pain in the arse,you cant draw your bow well with a gun sling round your kneck.your better in bear country to have 1 weopen you have complete control off ,than 2 weopans you have no control over

[300wsm]

i think the original poster made reference to cleaning an animal. that is when you can have a loaded 12 guage handy. i know i do every time. the other time it is loaded is in camp. i think it is a great idea and i carry a pistol grip for that reason.

really is there anyone here that would rather have bear spray in that situation? i have thought a lot about it and definately not me.

300wsm

[killerkevin]

Good reference...it does still state though that even those guys agree that spray is over 90% effective, but more importantly it shows that in their mock test that the 'hikers with guns lose' vs the 'hikers with free hands', in their cell phone challenge.
The original post was a KK going bowhunting and looking for options on protection...if the site you posted is accurate, then even they agree that he would be in trouble if he had to drop the bow and then get his gun...why carry the extra weight for something that won't work for you? Besides, his gun will likely be slung over his back otherwise its in his way if he's stalking or ready to shoot his bow, so how is he going to get that gun off and up and shoot in your example...he won't...
As for the 'enraged grizzly you mention, that's a whole new ball game and again, not what KK's original post asked...in your scenerio a shotgun is still likely mixed results...especially if he has to scramble to get it off his back.
The shotgun would be a hassle while bowhunting if you were alone. But if hunting with a partner like I recently did, I had him handling the shotgun while I was bowhunting... I even had bear spray in my cargo pocket to be extra safe! I wasn't too worried about bears using that method!.

[allan185]

does the bear usually stop 15 or 20 feet away when they charge ???
:eek: i hope so !!!!!:frown:

[35 Whelen]

If they are bluffing..........if not bend over and kiss yer arse. Lets put it this way; If they don't stop , they will be on you in less than a second.

I had a buddy who was a guide for coastal grizzly and he was VERY good at reading a charge. He said if the bear was bounding up and down, hair bristling ears up and he was making himself look large...it was a bluff charge.

He told me when the bear comes, low to the ground, running like an crocodile, ears laying down, and hair flattened out so much it looks shiny....then start shooting. He is low to the ground to keep his center of gravity low, so in a fight with another bear he won't flip belly over easily. His ears are flat to his head to protect them, and his hair is flat to act like armour. He was one of the best I have ever seen for bears, and he knew their signs and body language well.

[BCRiverBoater]

One fact I have read or heard numerous times that would make pepper spray effective is it is on you at all times. Thus making it effective at certain times. A rifle or shotgun in hand is fine and would be my first choice. But I have read about numerous attacks on hunters and in lots of the cases the hunter did not have his gun handy or on him. There is no doubt about having little to no time when the attack happens. As a hunter how many times is your gun left hanging on a branch or leaning on a tree 20 feet away from you? Is it in the tent first thing in the morning until you remember it? Is it with you when you go down the creek 100 feet from camp for water? Do you take it to the crapper? Is it on your horse while you are glassing? These are all valid and very real examples where you are left vulnerable? In all these cases the spray would be attached to your belt.

When reading these examples it is the only real information that I felt was 100% believable and the only info that would make me think of carrying it while hunting. The few individuals that have mentioned this have always said to carry both. They said all hunters, fisherman and camper or hikers who can and do carry firearms should also have pepper spray. This makes sense and is hard to argue. None of these pro pepper spray users say it is better or should be used before a firearm. One of them is a grizzly attack survivor who was caught for only a few seconds without his gun that he thought was within a safe distance. He wished he would have had spray as he had time to pull it out but not the time to run 100 feet for his gun. he also mentioned if he had his gun and did not get a shot off it would have been knocked out of his hands as he was knocked all over the place. He said he may have (stressed may have) been able to get the spray out while covering up etc. if it were on him but did not really know for sure but would have been worth trying.

Made sense to me. I still hunt and carry rifles for protection. When not hunting I carry a defender with 6 magnum shells. (Still not sure about slugs vs 00 but I have loaded both) I have had to draw the gun but so far have not had to fire a shot. When in camps for larger trips every hunter has a rifle and we have one camp defender at our chairs at all times.

[phoenix]

I've had to use spray twice now and bear bangers a couple of times also. I used my spray a few weeks ago on a sow when the dogs and I got between her and her 2 cubs. She was mainly charging the dogs which ran behind me and I think me standing there and yelling at her to stop startled her and caused her to rear up about 15-20' away and I let her have a small dose. She wheeled around and charged into the bush where I could hear her bawling her eyes out for quite a while as we headed in the opposite direction. I was down wind in a slight breeze and I got a bit also so our retreat was a bit slow as it is hard to run with your eyes streaming tears let me tell you. I barely got any and it was awful, I can't imagine what it would be like for a bear with the senses they have. It must be complete sensory overload. The only thing I don't like about the spray is its wind sensitivity. I carry it 100% of the time when I am in the woods.

Also a couple quick questions if I may. Would you kill a bear for trying to take a kill away from you? Say a bear finds you with a fresh kill and you shoot a couple of rounds in the air or whatever to scare it off and the bear won't leave do you abandon your kill or kill the bear?
Kim

[35 Whelen]

Tough question Phoenix

If I was returning from packing the first portion of game out to find a bear on the kill.....no question. I would leave it to the bear, black or grizzly. After they have been slobbering all over the meat with their bacteria infest mouth and NO meat is worth my life.

If I was dressing an animal and a bear came along. I would initially try to defend it if the bear was coming is slow enough for me to see it. However it was a grizz hell bent on taking it...again I would not hesitate to back away and leave it to him......Usually a bear coming in with blood on the wind is coming fast, and he will likely not give you much warning.

[phoenix]

I would initially try to defend it if the bear was coming is slow enough for me to see it.
Would that include killing it or in the end would you leave the kill to the bear if you could not scare it off?
Kim

[moosinaround]

I have been charged by a blackie, sprayed him with pepper spray and he was not phased by it. I had a face to face with a blackie and he came out on the losing end. 00 buck and it was all over. I had slugs to back up the 00 buck. I don't give warning shots! Period!! I back off give the bear room. If it enters my personal space, boom it is a dead bear. Now defining your personal space is up to the situation and your relative experience with bears. Grizz display different reactions than blackies, you need to learn the differences between these reactions. I load my 12 ga with 6. If it is not dead with 6 then you deserve to be a main course!! Good luck with the bow hunting, Moosin

[35 Whelen]

Would that include killing it or in the end would you leave the kill to the bear if you could not scare it off?
Kim


I would likely fire a couple of rounds to the side of his legs in the dirt and see what reaction he had. If he kept coming, in my mind, it would depend on the breed. Blackie....he is dead. Grizzly....I am leaving him a nice dinner. Like I said, no meat is worth my life.

[Essential]

heres a thought: The mob has used .22 for killing humans and a small caliber rifle will drop a man in his tracks. But a cracked out guy or even a mad women will charge right through pepper spray and keep comin.

Yet we use large caliber rifles and 12 gauge slugs to slow down or stop bears.... And you want me to carry a can of pepper spray to defend myself from a ton of angry animal NO THANKS give me a BIG gun with as many shells I can have!!!!