Sheep Hunting Problem

[campking]

Hi;
Was wondering if anyone has heard of this problem ? One of my hunting buddies went to the Ashnola under a LEH authorization for just under one week and met six other sheep hunters . When he left not one of them had harvested, let alone seen a sheep. They found dirt bike tracks all over an area where no motorized vehicles are allowed, they were told that a couple of days prior to opening someone buzzed the entire area to scare the sheep off, do you think something like this could happen?

They are reporting the situation, and boy am I curious what response they get.

[budismyhorse]

It happens Hombre.

My guess is nothing will come of it.

Could be coincidence, could be rednecks, could be an ENGO, could be an outfitter (if there is one), could be someone with a late hunt draw.....who knows.

[shaner338]

I was up their last year and seen the bike tracks everywhere too. Not sure they patrol it much anymore but it sure pushes the sheep out. There was also a helicopter buzziing the hillside a couple times too. We did see quite a few sheep but only three that may have been legal but they didn't hang around long.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Don't bother to hunt them where you can drive a bike:?

SSS

[bighornbob]

Crater Mountain gets atv's and dirt bikes all the time even though it has a motor vehicle closer on it. I doubt the guys chased the sheep to avoid them from getting shot. If I was to guess I would say:

a) guys were up there riding and it scared the sheep away as I am sure loud motors above you would do that to you too. They probably had to clue that they were disrupting animals.

b) they chased the sheep on purpose becuase they were ass clowns. Do you really think the guys who ride up there have a clue or even a care they are not supposed to be up there. Do these same people care if they chase animals, not likely.

BHB

[7 mag]

Was there in'99', same thing. It all boils down to what is & will be the detriment of all hunting in this province, lack of Goverment involvement, AKA - inforecment. Wildlife has no future in this provence with the current goverment priorities.

[horshur]

Was there in'99', same thing. It all boils down to what is & will be the detriment of all hunting in this provence, lack of Goverment involvement, AKA - inforecment. Wildlife has no future in this provence with the current goverment commetments.

I don't agree with this.....people have a responsibility to follow reasonable laws........if the only deterent is 24 hour supervision we are doomed.

more laws and more policing will not make people moral...you cannot legislate morality.

we do not need more goverment we need better people.

[horshur]

the sheep are still there they did not grow wings...I have seen big rams in the open areas after the first two seasons of hunting pressure.
they need to drink and that is how I would hunt them.

[GoatGuy]

Don't look in the pretty stuff at the top of crater and you'll find the sheep.

Same story, every year.

[Pete]

On our range dirt bikes create a major problem especially when they are going off existing trail and road systems. Trying to keep them off of posted private property is challanging. The bikers continue to cut gates and fences, or venture out on to the grasslands causing all kinds of damage where they have gone. For example one gate alone we have had to replace 5 times. Again it is a few ruining it for everyone else. We now have taken a very hard line approach and charge them with trespass at every opertunity. As well we pass on the information to the CO Service, Forestry Protection and the RCMP to look at having them charged with destruction of habitat which carries some very hefty fines.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Look for a ram where you dont expect to see a ram. In the the ugly stuff or timber.

[Blainer]

I would highly doubt it was the outfitter,I met him up there last year and he was a very repectful and a helpful guy.
I do know the c/o's frequent the area during the draws and inquire of such activities,take note of lisc. plates.
They did phone me last year regarding information I might have,as they were investigating similiar activities.

[SteadyGirl]

What SSS and horsur said


I might not have the best sheep hunting spots going but at least I have privacy when I'm hunting .. the crowds just aren't worth it for me. Ruins a day in a big hurry.

[SHAKER]

[quote=campking;505427]Hi;
When he left not one of them had harvested, let alone seen a sheep.


Not quite accurate........ but It is along way from a slam dunk hunt. I know 1 ram came off on the opening week!:wink:

As far as the closures.... It is a real problem and is "usually" not hunters that are going past the closures. I have replaced those signs so many times its almost not worth doing anymore. Time for them CO's to watch that on the weekends on the nice weather days.

[835]

my dad hunted crater this year first hunt of the season this year and said there was a couple of guys who shot a nice ram but they worked hard for it.and that was it

when he was standing beside a gentleman who happened to be the presidant of the princeton fish and game they watched one of the guides assistants rideing a quad across the hillside. co's were phoned the guy was found he has the right to use the quad on crater and cant be charged. He is obviously using this to scare the sheep he will know where they hide on the mountain and if he doesnt get them this year he will the next. Princeton guy did say he will talk to the guide

i dont agree with what he is doing at all but i know he is looking out for #1

[Stone Sheep Steve]

my dad hunted crater this year first hunt of the season this year and said there was a couple of guys who shot a nice ram but they worked hard for it.and that was it

when he was standing beside a gentleman who happened to be the presidant of the princeton fish and game they watched one of the guides assistants rideing a quad across the hillside. co's were phoned the guy was found he has the right to use the quad on crater and cant be charged. He is obviously using this to scare the sheep he will know where they hide on the mountain and if he doesnt get them this year he will the next. Princeton guy did say he will talk to the guide

i dont agree with what he is doing at all but i know he is looking out for #1

Now.....does he have a right to use an ATV in the restriced area because he has the G/O tenure or because he has the cattle grazing rights??


Could be both. Wouldn't surprize me.
The GO in the Tat can use a jetboat in the river but us lowly residents can't:-?.

SSS

[SHAKER]

The closure is a 105 (1) (b) forestry closure. Meaning "Autorized" vehicles only, which would be any comercial operators including the GO can go past. Not that I agree with it but it is true!

As far as the guys who got there Ram... Yep they worked for it and were rewarded with a nice Ram that was fairly easy to get out. (Lucky buggers):twisted:

[835]

honestly i cant say it was my dad who had the conversation with the guy.
It was a guide in the area not the rancher. As i am to understand it is the same principal though. The guide has the right to use a quad in the ashnola. somehow it must come with the guiding rights. On the Island in the stamp river you need a guide license to run a jet, or work for a guide outfit. Im sure it is the same thing. But it was for sure as said by the co the guides assistant not the rancher.

[835]

shaker im guessing it was your friends that are the same as i've heard about. i have hunted that mountain with my dad for years for the deers,
sounds as though they were quote "all over the mountain". i've pulled 4 points from almost every side of that place and it is not easy.Pat em on the back they earned it!

[SHAKER]

For the record the CO did check and it was the one of the hired guides that did go up there, that was the day before the season.

835 We've probably talked up there too bad the Deer hunt'n isn't anything like it was a bunch of years ago. Just too many people now for such a small area and not the #'s of Deer either. I don't even waste my time anymore, too bad cause I can look at it from my house.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

The GO in the Tat can use a jetboat in the river but us lowly residents can't:???:

He uses it for moose. There is some white water ugliness that prevents access to the good sheep spots.

On a side note it has been anecdotally reported to me that the hunting pressure is much higher since the implimentation of LEH for Dall's in the Tat. I believe it, based upon the hunters I have seen crawling all over the hills and the footprints.

During the 80's many of my buddies used to drive in and spot sheep from the pick up window. Pressure was much, much lower back then.

[835]

shaker
ya it was great up there, i think it was when they opened it up to that any buck early season that it fell. that year i remember there was way more people up there and it sounded like a war zone.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[quote=SHAKER;505703]For the record the CO did check and it was the one of the hired guides that did go up there, that was the day before the season.
quote]

Geeze...what a surpize:roll:.

SSS

[BlacktailStalker]

It should be illegal for them to be up there with a motorized vehicle outside of the legal hunting season.
For them to allow that and it being so obvious what is going on is favourtism and just plain ignorance.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The GO in the Tat can use a jetboat in the river but us lowly residents can't:???:
On a side note it has been anecdotally reported to me that the hunting pressure is much higher since the implimentation of LEH for Dall's in the Tat. I believe it, based upon the hunters I have seen crawling all over the hills and the footprints.

During the 80's many of my buddies used to drive in and spot sheep from the pick up window. Pressure was much, much lower back then.

Sorry.. Slight hijack...but I remember reading an article in BC Outdoors many years ago (I think it was by Shockey) about the Tat and how the interest from all parties(not just hunters) went waaaaaaay up as soon as they called made it a "Provincial Park" . Same thing is bound to happen with tourist traffic in the Ashnola if ever becomes a National Park. Just another tourist garbage can!(hijack off).

SSS

[835]

dad was hunting his tag when the guy drove through that im talking about
took every old road up the top of the mountain. the vehicle restriction is for everyone all year except this guy

[SHAKER]

[quote=SHAKER;505703]For the record the CO did check and it was the one of the hired guides that did go up there, that was the day before the season.
quote]

Geeze...what a surpize:roll:.

SSS


At least they were there at all! Unfortunatly though the closure is to all "recreational vehicles only". I do agree that it should be closed to everyone, the grass lands are pretty sensitive.

[Moose72]

If the signs are gone, many, many non hunters go out for a cruise on their quads and bikes. They tend to go where they can get to. They don't read the hunting regs and understand the rules. I know quite a few people from the lower mainland and they haven't a clue about the laws for many of the areas. Not sticking up for anyone but maybe there should be a regulation book for the biking and quadding season? Anyone within these boundries should end up with the same charges as a hunter.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[quote=Stone Sheep Steve;505736]


At least they were there at all! Unfortunatly though the closure is to all "recreational vehicles only". I do agree that it should be closed to everyone, the grass lands are pretty sensitive.

Sorry. I was referring to the GO doing that the day before the season .... not the CO's being there at that time. Wasn't a jab at the COs.

The GO knows where the rams will go once pressured. Keeps us from shooting their sheep:roll:


SSS

[Blainer]

dad was hunting his tag when the guy drove through that im talking about
took every old road up the top of the mountain. the vehicle restriction is for everyone all year except this guy
Ask your dad about the cattle?
It is my understanding that the ranchers are alowed access with atv's.
The area up top is fenced and crossed fenced and the ranchers patrol the area and tend to the fences.
The success rate from last years sheep hunt was 25%,coming from the biologist.
The crater side had the better success rate compared to the snowy side.
The outfitter is a father and son and each works his own side,I believe the son uses horses on the snowy side and the father had a quad when we met last year up crater,and again I would mention he was respectful and willing to offer advice.

[835]

wasnt them, co said it was the guide. i have no problem with the ranchers using every means to run their show. they are the reason we have the limited access we do up there. we have hunted their alot and this guy was not tending his fence he was tending his sheep herd for his clients.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

i have no problem with the ranchers using every means to run their show. they are the reason we have the limited access we do up there.

The deer and sheep would both do a lot better if cattle were kept out of the alpine. Back when I was up there in 2002 there were a few areas of exclusion fencing that we thought were for a study of some kind. The growth inside the enclosures was awesome compared to where the cattle could access. That goes for all alpine areas of the province.

SSS

[bcfarmer]

If the signs are gone, many, many non hunters go out for a cruise on their quads and bikes. They tend to go where they can get to. They don't read the hunting regs and understand the rules. I know quite a few people from the lower mainland and they haven't a clue about the laws for many of the areas. Not sticking up for anyone but maybe there should be a regulation book for the biking and quadding season? Anyone within these boundries should end up with the same charges as a hunter.


The signs are not all gone. In fact, this year, they stayed in place rather well. As part of our local Sportsman club Wilderness Watch Program, I was with Shaker's dad this year, puting up the large 2x3 , 6 figure fine, habitat destruction sign beside the "no unauthorized vechiles past this point" sign.

We encountered six different people that morning that were quading to the alpine. When told it was a restricted access area, they just stated they didnt see the signs.....ignorance is bliss I guess.

The following weekend, guess who was up there again!
Before anyone goes off half cocked, yes , forestry and the MoE were notified.

It is unfortunate that the co service feels that fuel money is only justified during hunting season.

As for the local GO and ranchers, unfortunately, possibly unwittingly, they are part of the problem. When the general public sees tracks made by quads or motorbikes, they don't know they were made by a person allowed to do so or not. So if one does it, others follow. JMHO.

BCF

[horshur]

The deer and sheep would both do a lot better if cattle were kept out of the alpine. Back when I was up there in 2002 there were a few areas of exclusion fencing that we thought were for a study of some kind. The growth inside the enclosures was awesome compared to where the cattle could access. That goes for all alpine areas of the province.

SSS

that seems like a novel idea however you must consider the practicality of such an arrangement.....sentimentalism vs reality.

[835]

that study has been going on since i was 17 its been 17 years plus whatever time before me. you are right the growth in there is way better.
but the animals in this area migrate through there. We hunted the last of the season and one day you would just start seeing the big guys.
the mountain's looks hasnt changed just the amount of people on it and what they are doing to it.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

that seems like a novel idea however you must consider the practicality of such an arrangement.....sentimentalism vs reality.

Yes, I'm a bit of an "idealist":neutral:. Call it a fault if you will.

SSS

[plumbob]

It happens up there ALOT

[SHAKER]

[quote=SHAKER;505744]

Sorry. I was referring to the GO doing that the day before the season .... not the CO's being there at that time. Wasn't a jab at the COs.

The GO knows where the rams will go once pressured. Keeps us from shooting their sheep:roll:


SSS

Too bad for him he didn't get his Ram on opening week, we got ours!:biggrin: LOL.

[bighornbob]

[quote=Stone Sheep Steve;505748]

Too bad for him he didn't get his Ram on opening week, we got ours!:biggrin: LOL.


Well dont be shy lets see some pics.

[SHAKER]

I would post some pics but........ The guys who got their Ram said they would not be posting pics due to the privaliged info they recieved (which I greatly respect) and its not my sheep to show off so I will not be either. Sorry guys.