Pacific salmon-action by the people [Archive]

View Full Version : Pacific salmon-action by the people

branthunter

08-18-2009, 12:50 PM

Below in blue (the brown is the letter within the blue letter)are two letters I recently e-mail'd. I urge all of you to do the same or similar. If we do not exert the pressure of millions of voters on our provincial and federal governments to stop the desecration of the wild salmon runs by open net salmon farming then the loss of that resource will be on our heads. If you act, and if you can get your friends and their's to act, we will create sufficient political pressure that government listen. This kind of movement has to start somewhere. Let it be with us--with you--following Alexandra Morton's leadership and creating a political motivation in our politicians to act to stop the travesty of open net salmon pens on OUR coast. Go to http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/ and http://www.raincoastresearch.org/home.htm read up on the subject of salmon farming and our wild stocks and the evidence of what the former is doing to the latter, sign the adopt-a-fry petition, join that organization and send them $20, start your own e-mail campaign (e-mail may be the most powerful political tool of our generation). Please when you send your e-mails post a comment that you have done so here so we can keep this thread alive and in the forefront of the active threads list so that everyone here sees it and takes action too.

Dear Fisheries Minister Shea: I recently sent an e-mail to all the contacts in my e-mail address book. I want you to have a copy and enclose same herewith:

Hi Folks: I've raided my address book to send this e-mail out. Some of you may already be involved. I am not normally an activist nor do I get involved in political causes/movements but this one has got me up off my butt so I can get to my VISA card. The other thing I can do is send something like this to encourage all of you to go to this website ( http://www.raincoastresearch.org/home.htm )and review it----then sign the "adopt-a-fry.org" letter (see top left corner of Raincoast website page or go to this website---http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/---)to the federal and provincial governments and thereby add your name to Alexandra Morton's effort to save our salmon stocks. She has been a lonely voice for too long. A close friend, who some of you met at our 40th anniversary party last weekend, is heavily involved in the fishing industry. He has been working with Morton and fully supports her efforts. His description of the things he and she have seen as to how the salmon farming industry is killing millions of juvenile wild salmon has convinced me that Alexandra Morton's voice in the wilderness needs to be supported by every person who enjoys salmon based sport and/or values the ecologically central role wild salmon play in this province. It takes so little time/effort for us to sign on and sign up but if we can make the voices start adding up to the hundreds of thousands then maybe the politicians will wake up. Whenever I go down to my duck shack at the mouth of the Fraser R. I can watch the schools of little 1.5 cm. fry scurrying around in the shallows as they head out to sea. But right now the run of sockeye that was supposed to show up this year appears to have been decimated. As I've seen in so many years past the river should be full of sockeye right now but it isn't. The little ones that went to sea have not come back. Read the "adopt-a-fry.org" website for Morton's description of what she saw happening to them as the fry went past the salmon farms. Look at the picture of what sea lice do to them. A "protest-by-petition" isn't much commitment but at least we can let the governments know that we don't like what's happening and want them to act to change it. Going further and sending a donation helps those who are inclined to commit to a more in-depth involvement in this fight get the job done. So far I've been inclined to go along with the "two sides to every story" excuse for inaction on this issue but talking to my friend and seeing these websites has moved me to get off the fence and side with the salmon----even if the pros and cons were balanced (and I don't believe they are) we cannot afford to take a risk on losing our wild salmon. I hope you all will add your voices and support---and raiding your own address books to send this out to all your friends and associates would also help immensely.

The failure of our federal and provincial governments to prevent the rape of our marine salmon habitat by a foreign government (Norway) and it's commercial open net salmon farm interests on OUR coast is mind boggling . I helped elect both our governments but I assure you that if something is not done to eliminate the threat posed by commercial salmon farming to our wild salmon stocks I will not be voting for those parties again. I am shamed as a Canadian by your indifference and inaction and by the superior leadership shown by Alaska and it's politicians in banning commercial salmon open net farms and thereby preserving their salmon runs. You are not doing the job you were elected to do of preserving our country and our resources. The commercial activity and jobs created by these salmon farms is inconsequential compared to the losses they are causing, both in environmental degradation and economic value of the wild salmon runs. Don't you care enough to do something about this? Making these "farmers" go to closed pens would be a simple solution that will protect both the environment (and our wild salmon stocks) and the economic base /jobs generated by salmon farming. Such action would even generate more economic activity in carrying out the switch over. Would you risk our salmon heritage just because a foreign corporate interest cries that such a changeover would be too costly? You are killing two economies (commercial and recreational salmon fishing) to further the economic activities of a much smaller one (salmon farming) , and that one controlled by foreign interests (Norway) at that . How can you let foreign interests come into our country and do this to us? There is no time to study this. You must act now based on the scientific work already done by Alexandra Morton. This years sockeye runs have already been decimated . If the smolts of the fish that have managed to survive and spawn are subjected to the same plague of salmon farm sea lice the die off may well result in the extinction of that run ( and if not this time then even more likely the next time) , and once they are gone that's it---there is no second chance . If the evidence doesn't satisfy you and you choose to wait for more information without imposing a moratorium on salmon farming as it exists today, the consequences of being wrong will destroy what nature has created, and that can never be undone. When I was called to the Bar in 1978 a wise old judge by the name of Mary Southin who was giving the address to the incoming class said to us, "If you have to stop and ask yourself whether it is ethically or morally right to do something the answer will inevitaby be 'Don't do it. It is wrong to do this.' ". Surely you must at the very least have to stop and ask yourself if it is morally right to be risking our salmon heritage in this fashion for so little (if any) gain. Madam Justice Southin's advice must guide you in deciding.

30.06 Hunter

08-18-2009, 01:05 PM

branthunter

08-18-2009, 01:50 PM

Or you could do a bit more research first and find out that the sky is not falling and the science is in and salmon farming has nothing to do with the poor returns of sockeye. And that Alaska is not immune to poor salmon runs despite what others would have you believe.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Poor+ocean+survival+blamed+sockeye+returns/1894865/story.html

http://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=8-2009&day=17&id=33472&l=e&country=&special=&ndb=1&df=0

http://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=6-2009&day=23&id=32830&l=e&country=&special=&ndb=1&df=0
If you call "research" reading the local newspaper and an industry sponsored rag then you are a big part of the problem.. The following is taken directly off the FIS website that you cite as research----"FIS, the web site of Fish Information & Services, is widely recognized as the standard for global seafood industry information on the Internet.

Founded in 1995 by professionals deeply engaged in the seafood industry, the site delivers the most reliable, timely, comprehensive worldwide fishing, seafood, and aquaculture information and we do it daily in three languages: Japanese, English and Spanish."

I didn't say Alaska is immune to poor runs. All I point out is that they've had the brains and guts to refuse to take the risks open net salmon farms so obviously pose to the natural resource. When we've been given the gift of such a huge and bountiful resource as wild salmon why on earth would we take any risks whatever of harming that resource?

Cbuck

08-18-2009, 03:06 PM

Branthunter I couldn't agree with you more. Fish farms are a part of the problem and are not in any way a solution to the issues faced by pacific salmon.

Good on you for helping to increase awarness. Hopefully this fight continues long after the fall runs again fail to add up. Makes one wonder how bad it has to get before something is done. Seems the general voting public is not showing enough concern to influence government...yet - hopefully that changes soon.

spreerider

08-18-2009, 03:13 PM

branthunter

08-18-2009, 06:08 PM

and who sponsers Alexandra Morton and her research?
If she didnt come up with fish farms harming salmon would she retain her funding or would the funding move to someone who could get the results that those suporting her funding want.

Sockeye are larger when they pass by the salmon farms so should not be as affected by sealice as other species as a fishes immune system can reject the lice after a short time, and only fish going through the smoltification where they have a suppressed immune system are in real danger of death by parasites.

My personal belief is that overfishing the ocean for krill shrimp, herring, and other small fish and crustacians is causing a lack of food for ocean going adult fish causing higher mortality rates through lower energy levels and less ability to fight diease and escape preditation.
Global ocean currents are also changing possibley due to global warming causing the best places for salmon growth to move towards Japan and Russia where if you read into it have been having increased salmon returns for the last 4 years. (from national geographic)

The oceans are all connected and to say that this is only a local problem caused by fish farms only and ignore all the other possible causes is irresponsible there are an infinate number of causes to a problem this complex.

I wish people would read a post carefully before they go off with untrue accusations. I didn't say that fish farms are the only problem. But they are a problem that is clearly playing a major role in salmon mortality if you look at the research, which you obviously did not do before offering your own bogus "personal belief theory" , and they are a problem that is a lot easier to deal with than global warming. I have to wonder what is the personal agenda of people like you and 30.06 is in being so offhandedly scornful of a legitimate concern (and an attempt to do something about it) for a situation that is going to have disastrous consequences for wild salmon and our coastal people and economy.
You ask who sponsors Morton, so if you don't know who sponsors her (if anyone does--I don't at the moment) what gives you the right to question her motivations? At least she's doing something to try and avert a disaster. What are you doing?

f350ps

08-18-2009, 09:23 PM

A simple Google search of Norwegian Fish Farms should be mandatory before someone spouts off about how great aquaculture is. I totally agree with you Branthunter although it wasn't that long ago that I would have argued with you. I used to be very skeptical of Morton but after having listened to what she had to say and doing a little research of my own I think she knows what she's talking about. I'm afraid that by the time the government figures out the damage that is being done it's going to be to late. K

brad ferris

08-18-2009, 09:59 PM

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou-eng.htm

i don't get out to the coast as often as i'd like to but i do love to eat sockeye. i know there will always be at least two sides to every issue and i don't begrudge anyone having an oppinion.having said that i have seen kneejerk reactions in the past (a g- bear moratorium and an elk closure in region 4 durring the rut) come to mind.i sure would like to see a healthy return of salmon so i'm all for figuring out the true reasons for the poor returns.

Johnnybear

08-18-2009, 10:46 PM

http://gallery.fishbc.com/albums/Ironnoggin/DFO_Clown_Logo.jpg

Brant hunter those two work for fish farms so the comments are expected.

Anyone take a look at the reports coming out of Chile lately? Now the fish all the way up to the lakes are infected with cr*p caused by aquaculture of the salmon kind:mad:. Love to hear the logical come backs on this one:roll:.

dryflyguy57

08-19-2009, 07:45 AM

Branthunter , Good thread . I have been spreading the word also . Move them out of the salt chuck into closed containment and quit being pushed around by Norweigen multi-nationals . Hard to believe DFO can say they don't know what the problem is with missing sockeye and then the next day say it isn't the fish farms fault . Between Run of the River and fish farms I think Gordon has plans to export our water south .

30.06 Hunter

08-19-2009, 08:20 AM

If you call "research" reading the local newspaper and an industry sponsored rag

Interesting that you don't want anyone to read anything except what comes out of an anti's web site.
Also interesting to note that you don't mention the Skeena river sockeye runs that are also significantly lower than predicted and there are no salmon farms anywhere near there.
What also seems to not get mentioned is that the species of sealice found on sockeye in the Georgia Straight is different than that found on farmed salmon.
I guess salmon farms are just an easy target and the media machine of the anti's has focused on them as their main fund raising activity, and they are very good at writing emotional appeals. Strangely similar to the ones written by the anti bear hunters.

Devilbear

08-19-2009, 08:42 AM

My personal belief is that

Scientific research, such as that done by Dr. Morton, has NOTHING to do with personal belief.

The risk to our indigenous salmoids from open net farming in the ocean is simply too great to accept; they should close ALL of these "farms" and not allow ANY such potential eco-catastrophes to be built in B.C., again.

I trust the "salmon farmers" as I trust politicians, lawyers, cops, used car salespersons and the oil industry.

dryflyguy57

08-19-2009, 05:55 PM

I hear that the Canadian Fisheries minister is in Norway this week to promote the BC coast for Atlantics . I thought the DFO had a mandate to manage the wild stocks of this country . Norway has already destroyed their wild stocks and need room to grow . We are sluts to the foreign corporations once more.

branthunter

08-19-2009, 06:47 PM

Interesting that you don't want anyone to read anything except what comes out of an anti's web site.
Also interesting to note that you don't mention the Skeena river sockeye runs that are also significantly lower than predicted and there are no salmon farms anywhere near there.
What also seems to not get mentioned is that the species of sealice found on sockeye in the Georgia Straight is different than that found on farmed salmon.
I guess salmon farms are just an easy target and the media machine of the anti's has focused on them as their main fund raising activity, and they are very good at writing emotional appeals. Strangely similar to the ones written by the anti bear hunters.

Your misrepresentation of what my posts say is classically typical of the distortion and half truth tactics used by the industry of which you are so proud to be a part to counter the increasingly clear and abundant peer reviewed scientific research that shows the connection of open net salmon farms to a multitude of risks to our wild salmon stocks. I know you're only trying to protect your job but mitigation of those risks does not have to threaten the continuation of your industry. There are ways to farm salmon without creating the current level of risk to wild stocks. Moving the few farms that are on migration paths and turning off the lights at night on all farms is not much to ask when faced with the risk of extinction of wild runs. Containment pens work and they eliminate the risk. I wouldn't expect someone in your position to picket at the door of your boss's office but what do you hope to gain by ranting here in support of their rape of our coast? Nothing is 100% sure in this dispute EXCEPT the existence of the risk that open net salmon farms will adversely affect some wild salmon runs to the possible point of extinction. Are you willing to risk that just to maximize the profits of Norwegian aquaculture corporations.? I would be similarly incensed at Canadian firms but it is especially galling to have foreign corporations come onto our coast and do this.
It shows a real lack of insight into the issues involved here and lack of respect for the members here when you insult their intelligence by trying to use the anti-bear hunt booegy man as a scare tactic to sway opinion. No one here is dumb enough to fall for that tripe.
Watch this movie. This is a fight all Canadians need to join. It's one we can't afford to lose. http://www.puresalmon.org/video2.html

branthunter

08-19-2009, 07:07 PM

I want to say it again. Watch this movie. This is a fight all Canadians need to join. It's one we can't afford to lose. http://www.puresalmon.org/video2.html
And if you can get yourself down to this rally tomorrow it will be a big help----nothing impresses government like people concerned enough to show up and be counted.

Media and Public Advisory

The Wild Salmon Circle, a group of concerned citizens, is calling all supporters of wild salmon to a protest held in front of the Fisheries & Oceans Canada office in Vancouver.

Who: BC citizens who want to see open-net salmon farms taken off our coast permanently. We have invited conservation groups, First Nations, scientists, and fisheries stakeholders.

What: We will have Tum Tum the salmon appearing in costume, people to speak and answer questions, a petition and postcards.

Where: 401 Burrard - Burrard and Pender in Vancouver, in the square.

When: Thursday, August 20, 2009 at NOON.

Why: With this protest, we hope to increase local public awareness about the DFO presence at the Aqua Nor trade show in Norway, and Minister Gail Shea's hopes of essentially selling Canadian waters to global fish farm corporations.

Rationale: The Minister of Fisheries & Oceans is in Norway at the Aqua Nor conference to lay out the welcome mat for fish farms to populate the Atlantic and B.C. coast. Considering sea lice from fish farms on salmon migration routes are known to kill wild salmon, and these may have been at least partly responsible for the disastrously low sockeye returns this summer, we think this is an incredibly bad idea.

There are currently excellent people in Norway at the conference letting the Norwegians know that the people of British Columbia are not behind this plan. Gail Shea has been given a 16,000 signature petition against Norwegian fish farms, and a video was screened showing scientific evidence of high wild salmon mortality due to fish farm sea lice. Coverage of the Canadian protest was aired on prime-time Norwegian news.

Additional Information:

The DFO's Canadian Pavilion website for Aqua Nor:

< http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/norway-norvege/commerce_canada/aquanor07/aquaculture.aspx <http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/norway-norvege/commerce_canada/aquanor07/aquaculture.aspx> >

Other informed websites on Aqua Nor, salmon farms, and DFO (the WSC is not endorsed nor supported by these organizations):

<www.puresalmon.org <http://www.puresalmon.org/> >

< www.saveoursalmon.ca <http://www.saveoursalmon.ca/> >

Contact: Maria Morlin (teacher, biologist) - 604.728.4580, Judah Harrison (lawyer)- 778.866.0943, Tyee Bridge (writer)- 604.879.2203

fowl language

08-19-2009, 08:37 PM

brant. the last time i bought fish in johnstone straits about 5 years ago i had about 65 or 70,000 lbs of wild salmon and about 4000 lbs. of farm fish.i documented it took pics and called dfo,i never recieved a return call even after i spent hours on the phone, nobody cared.and we wonder what is happening to our salmon. im sure there are other reasons that add to the pile but i feel confident that the appearance of more and more sea lice over the years is not a coincidense.thank you for your letters and concern, to bad we couldnt get more people on here to care.imagine if we could get noticed as a body that cares.......fowl

branthunter

08-19-2009, 10:17 PM

30.06 Hunter

08-20-2009, 08:38 AM

typical of the distortion and half truth tactics used
So laughable. The industry could learn from the tactics of the anti's when it comes to distorting truths and misrepresenting facts.
Morton is not a Dr. she has no academic or scientific training and if you think this is a good thing give your head a shake.
None of you have thought as to why all of a sudden the Fraser river sockeye are supposedly being affected by salmon farms and none of the other runs are? Given that for years salmon farms have been in the same places same areas? Given that the number of active sites has not increased nor has production. But all of sudden it is the salmon farms that are responsible for the decline in the run size, the size of which was grossly inflated to begin with?
The anti's are not stupid, in fact they are very good at what they which is to manipulate a situation and play on the public's emotions in order to increase their fund raising efforts. These guys saw an opportunity figured out they could blame the salmon farms, without any evidence what so ever, and use it as a fund raising tactic.
Nobody has wondered why the Broughtons has suddenly stopped being the cause celebre? Possibly because the research coming out of there now shows that sea lice from salmon farms is a none issue with the pink salmon runs and is there by no longer a good fund raising issue.
These anti's are very good media and public relations manipulators and know exactly how to craft any kind of film to use as a scare tactic.
They well understood PT Barnums axiom.

f350ps

08-20-2009, 06:23 PM

I don't think you need to be a Doctor to figure this mess out, you just have to look at Norway and their non-exsistent wild stock. K

Ozone

08-20-2009, 07:38 PM

you just have to look at Norway and their non-exsistent wild stock. K

You may want to do a little research before saying such things. I recomend Google. Who knows you just might learn something:|

branthunter

08-20-2009, 08:20 PM

You may want to do a little research before saying such things. I recomend Google. Who knows you just might learn something:|

Like these from Google ?: http://www.norwegian-salmon.com/salmon/index-en.php

http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/63/7/1159

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2008/10/17151940 (Note;discusses a cause of wild salmon declines Norway & Scotland due to non-farm causes)

f350ps

08-20-2009, 09:47 PM

You may want to do a little research before saying such things. I recomend Google. Who knows you just might learn something:|
Ya, yer right I did learn something on Google, you should take yer own advice! Do you think I could make that up on my own?:idea: K

branthunter

09-17-2009, 01:18 PM

There are some folks in this province who are determined to save our wild salmon stocks from being decimated. Have a look at what I have copy/pasted below and judge for yourself what YOU can do to help. Sending e-mails of protest to Fisheries Minister Shea and PM Harper and Premier Campbell and local news media and also joining "adopt-a-fry" ( http://www.adopt-a-fry.org/ ) and contributing $20 (then and another $20 today) was a first step for me. I confess I was surprised at the lack of interest in this problem from the HBC membership shown by the number of responses when I started this thread (as you can see above, a few supporters and a bit of self interest based objecting) and let it fade but at the very least I will now regularly pass on the info I get as an "adopt-a-fry" subscriber and folks here can make their own judgements and decisions on whether something needs to be done, what that should be, and how they themselves can contribute. If we love our natural resources and want to preserve them for our sons and daughters then we are, I submit, obligated to do more on this site, and as individuals, than post pics of our glorious successes afield and clap our hands for the pics others post. What Alexandra Morton and her associates are asking for seems pretty reasonable to me, based on the available evidence.

From: wildorca@island.net
Subject: [fishermenlist] Judicial Inquiry
Date: September 17, 2009 10:00:09 AM PDT (CA)
To: wildorca@island.net

I realize I am sending you a lot of emails, but time is of the essence and you are now a group 18,000 strong, you are the biggest single voice for the wild salmon of British Columbia! You can follow the rapid progress on this call for a Judicial Inquiry, which would put essential people under oath via my blog: http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/

My thanks to all of you! If you are moved to action write your MPs and MLAs, and the Prime Minster of Canada and your local news services. Those of you from outside BC please write the Prime Minister of Canada Stephan Harper as well, you can Google his address.

Judicial Inquiry into Fisheries and Oceans Handling of Fraser River Sockeye Collapse is Essential to Preservation of this Fishery
Sointula BC, September 16, 2009 there must be a judicial inquiry into Fisheries and Oceans Canada’s handling of the Fraser River sockeye crash. Statements by Minister of Fisheries, Gail Shea and Regional Director General (Pacific) Paul Sprout to exempt salmon farm companies from the investigation into this crash are misleading. The current situation bears disturbing resemblance to the same department’s inactions that culminated in the commercial extinction of Canada’s North Atlantic cod. Hutchings et al. (1997) critique of Federal Fisheries on this include:

Misinformed the public on the science on the state of the cod stock
Reprimanded their own scientists who tried to speak freely
Offered plausible but wrong theories that allowed continued inaction
Did not take recommended action

No one was held accountable for demise of one of earth’s largest human food resources. Today, the highest levels of Fisheries and Oceans Canada are exonerating salmon farms using plausible but wrong arguments before the investigation on the collapse of the world’s largest sockeye salmon river has even begun.

Specifically:

August 26, 2009 Minister Gail Shea sent multiple copies of a letter to citizens stating:

“The coastwide scope of the decline that has occurred across all Pacific salmon species suggests that this decline [Fraser sockeye] is associated with much larger ecological events than localized salmon farming. These events include climate change and changes in ocean productivity along our West Coast. “

FACT: On August 26, 2009 it was widely known that there had not been a coast-wide collapse of all Pacific salmon species.

On August 15, 2009 Mr. Paul Sprout, published a letter to the editor of the Globe and Mail stating:

“Sea lice from fish farms are not the explanation for this year’s extremely poor marine survival of Fraser sockeye. … The sea lice species found on juvenile sockeye in the Strait of Georgia are not the same species that typically infects farmed salmon.”

FACT: In spring/summer 2007, when the missing sockeye went to sea as smolts, over 90% of the Marine Harvest salmon farms on the Fraser migration route reported presence of this species of louse.

Mr. Sprout repeats this again in the North Island Gazette September 3, 2009.

We cannot know at this point if salmon farms destroyed millions of Fraser sockeye, but they are a factor that bears close scrutiny including disease occurrence.

Sockeye runs near the Fraser River that did not pass salmon farms including; Columbia River to the south, and Somass River to the west survived better than forecast. Even within the Fraser River, the Harrison sockeye, reported to migrate via fish farm-free Juan de Fuca, came in at twice the DFO forecast. Only the sockeye stocks that migrated past 60 salmon farm sites failed at over 90%. Fisheries and Oceans Canada has never mentioned this publicly.

It is my opinion that Fisheries and Ocean Canada’s (recent and past) incomplete and inaccurate information to the public regarding salmon farming is threatening wild salmon of the eastern Pacific. There have been a plethora of scientific papers, government and environmental group reviews listing recommendations that have been critically ignored. It is my observation, as a resident and a scientist, that Fisheries and Oceans Canada is not honoring their original mandate to protect wild fish and that this will not be corrected without the highest level legal inquiry. I believe there are scientists, including myself, who should be questioned under oath on the science and review process that leads to publication of the science. One very critical and urgent episode is Minster Gail Shea’s March 11, 2009 assertion in a letter to me that there is no strong evidence that ISAV (fish virus) is transmitted via eggs, in support of continued farm salmon egg imports into British Columbia. Scientific papers report the opposite conclusion and it is believed that the devastating ISAV outbreak in Chile arrived in farm salmon eggs. Virologists report impact of this virus would likely be devastating and irreversible to naïve BC wild salmon stocks.

The fundamental issue at stake is Canadians’, present and future, right to the economic, ecological, food-security and social benefits of wild salmon. Fisheries and Oceans Canada has two conflicting mandates to protect wild salmon and promote salmon farms. This is not working. Farm salmon have a far reduced habitat requirement, in particular they do not require the rivers where 600 applications have been made to divert water for power production at 720 separate diversion points.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada’s handling of marine fish farms is not only inadequate, it is following the pattern of behavior that led to demise of an extremely valuable fishery resource in eastern Canada and a global food resource. A judicial inquiry with binding recommendations is essential to prevent repeat of that here in western Canada.

Alexandra Morton

goatdancer

09-17-2009, 02:45 PM

DFO has mismanaged our wild stocks for a long time. Cuts to research, cuts to enforcement, gravel extraction on the Fraser, shameless promotion of fish farms, etc, etc, etc. They politicians and bureaucrats just don't care. Too much hassle for fish on the west coast. Now if these fish were closer to Ottawa maybe they'd actually do something. Fish farming should be done in land based enclosures to prevent damaging the wild stocks. Trouble is this costs more money thereby decreasing profit. Think of it this way. Would you like large herds of cattle doing their thing in YOUR water reservoir?

branthunter

09-17-2009, 03:01 PM

"I agree with the farmers in one way and that is that they arn't the only problem"

What are the other problems? Maybe they are the only problem. There was a huge return of springs and coho on the west coast this year, the pinks are in great shape thanks to the farmers doing something to control the lice in their pens at the time the pink smolts were passing thru farm territory, and sockeye runs that don't pass the farms on their way to sea as babies are doing well. We have to work on what we can do something about but we need a government that will do it and the only way that is going to happen is if we kick hard enough on their doors.

Ozone

09-17-2009, 03:44 PM

"I agree with the farmers in one way and that is that they arn't the only problem"

What are the other problems? Maybe they are the only problem.

Or may they arent a problem at all.

Browningmirage

09-17-2009, 03:50 PM

Morton is not a Dr. she has no academic or scientific training and if you think this is a good thing give your head a shake

Firstly, Alexandra Morton is not a Doctor. She does have a bachelors degree (Which is scientific training). Secondly, she saw something unusual and decided to look into it. By her looking into it and raising the concern, she got the interest of masters students and professors, who came up with similar findings as she did. Is that a bad thing?

"I agree with the farmers in one way and that is that they arn't the only problem"

What are the other problems? Maybe they are the only problem. There was a huge return of springs and coho on the west coast this year, the pinks are in great shape thanks to the farmers doing something to control the lice in their pens at the time the pink smolts were passing thru farm territory, and sockeye runs that don't pass the farms on their way to sea as babies are doing well. We have to work on what we can do something about but we need a government that will do it and the only way that is going to happen is if we kick hard enough on their doors.

They most definately are not the only problem. If there is one thing I have learned in 3.5 years of University, it is that there is rarely only 1 cause for decline. Case and point, On western Vancouver Island, sea otters are hugely abundant. They eat large amounts of crabs and other shellfish and have therefore been labeled as the cause for the lack of good crabbing in places such as winter Harbour. I was there this summer, looking around on the shore, and I found european green crabs, which have been known to cause some issues with the native species of crabs. An issue that was "cut and dried" actually is much more convoluted than we used to think.

A question: Are fish farms the straw or the cinderblock that broke the camels back. Over the past century, we have degraded spawning habitat, overharvested, pumped chemicals into the oceans, decimated baitfish populations, and many many other things which could (and do) potentially impact the health of returning salmon populations. Only recently have we seen massive declines in populations (recently being the last 25 years). Is it because of fish farms solely, or is it that we have pushed them so far that they can no longer adapt and therefore their numbers are declining. Just food for thought

Personally, I think fish farms are ridiculous. I talked to a few German Tourists this year, and they said that Pacific Farmed salmon is cheap...like pennies cheap in Germany. Why cant we make it a bit more expensive and put it on land.

branthunter

09-17-2009, 08:13 PM

It is obvious that salmon farms are not the only problem affecting wild stocks. They might be , but that's highly unlikely. But that's not the issue. It appears clear that they are capable of having seriously deleterious effects on the wild smolts and have in the past done so. With so many potential adverse factors working against our salmon shouldn't we do something about the ones within easy reach of remedial efforts? What's wrong with making the salmon farmers control their lice infestations at times when the smolt runs are passing through? What's wrong with making them turn their lights off at night so wild fish aren't attracted to the pens? What's wrong with making them go to closed containment systems so that the problems they create are eliminated entirely ? What's wrong with refusing them permits (and rescinding the existing ones now that the hazards are becoming known risks) to set up along the smolt migration routes? If you refuse to accept that risks are established to the extent of being "known" do we have to "know" that a murky pool is also shallow to resist the impulse to dive in? Isn't the prudent course to proceed conservatively until we "know" whether salmon pens wreak havoc on native populations? What is the benefit of continuing to press ahead blindly with our dive into this murky pool?

Browningmirage

09-17-2009, 08:25 PM

What's wrong with making the salmon farmers control their lice infestations at times when the smolt runs are passing through?

I think, Rachel Carson put it best "The control of nature is a phrase concieved in arrogance, born of the neanderthal age of biology and the convenience of man". We need to get it through our heads that when we try to make nature better, we simply make it worse. There is no way to control lice infestations other then removing the farmed fish. Control of nature is a misconception of the highest order.

as to all your other What's wrongs? A simple answer, wrought with politics, and corruption. Money.

Our society cannot see the benefits of a sustainable wild fishery. We are plagued with shortsightedness.

Ozone

09-17-2009, 08:25 PM

Johnnybear

09-17-2009, 08:57 PM

Personally, I think fish farms are ridiculous. I talked to a few German Tourists this year, and they said that Pacific Farmed salmon is cheap...like pennies cheap in Germany. Why cant we make it a bit more expensive and put it on land.

X2. Why is it so cheap?. I also can't understand seeing canned salmon (wild) of various species in our local stores sometimes cheaper than canned chicken or SPAM:eek:. What is with that?

Overfishing of the food chain for salmon (Herring have been at ridiculously low levels. How much baitfish is being scooped up to feed farm fish by the way?)

I often wonder about this as well all though the ratio is going down I understand it is still over pound in for pound out. Just because the salmon fetch more money than the feed fish on the open market.

What about the increase in the seal and sea lion populations up and down the coast. This must have an inpact on the Herring, other feed fish, and salmon as well.

Dirty

09-17-2009, 09:16 PM

Weird how all the skeptics are from Campbell River. What are the benefits packages like at Marine Harvest? Any job openings?

Browningmirage

09-17-2009, 09:16 PM

X2. Why is it so cheap?. I also can't understand seeing canned salmon (wild) of various species in our local stores sometimes cheaper than canned chicken or SPAM:eek:. What is with that?

Have you seen the "WILD SALMON" Catfood?

Ozone

09-18-2009, 07:41 AM

Weird how all the skeptics are from Campbell River.

It is the salmon capital of the world.

What are the benefits packages like at Marine Harvest? Any job openings?

Good Benefits. It never hurts to apply, you just never know:roll:.

Wild one

09-18-2009, 09:25 AM

I am an inland trout farmer and I do agree that the off shore salmon farms do need work to say the least. As for moving them inland one major problem is getting the permits as you will get a run around if you try. The other fresh water farmers and I meet with DFO every year(some years multiple times) and they have no clue when it comes to inshore farming. I know the first guys in BC to do salmon inshore and they had to go over DFO's head just to get started.

There is ALOT more to the salmon stocks going down hill and salmon farming is only a small piece in the puzzle. Browningmirage has already listed a good portion so I will not bother repeating them. The abuse of the salmon stocks is on so many levels that putting an end to one problem will do very little.

branthunter

09-18-2009, 10:01 AM

"We need to get it through our heads that when we try to make nature better, we simply make it worse. There is no way to control lice infestations other then removing the farmed fish. Control of nature is a misconception of the highest order."

You hit the nail on the head there BM. Trying to improve nature by putting salmon in nets within the natural environment to raise them quicker, bigger, faster, in an easily harvested environment has made nature so much worse that it is in fact playing a central role in decimating some salmon runs. It is the most disastrous attempt to control nature our coast has ever seen. And you're wrong---apparently there are ways to control lice infestations in salmon pens.

"The abuse of the salmon stocks is on so many levels that putting an end to one problem will do very little."
So we should just give up? That's a quitter attitude that I don't buy. Deforestation along salmon streams was finally recognized as harmful so controls were brought in. At least we try to control pollution of rivers. Again I ask, where are the benefits of risking the existence of an entire run of salmon?

branthunter

09-18-2009, 10:14 AM

Why is it that Alaska gets low returns some years were there are no fish farms? Also in BC there were low years before farms were here? Can you explain the high returns of pinks this year when farms are around? Who do you blame for that?

We're not talking about low returns here---we're looking at disastrously low returns of sockeye to the Fraser this year. Try reading some of the references I posted. If you do, you will discover the explanation for the high return of pinks this year despite the presence of the farms. It is because Morton discovered the decimation of earlier pink runs and got the salmon farmers on the smolt migration routes to use some chemical to control the lice populations in their pens at the time when the run of pink smolts that grew up to be this years surplus run was passing through the farm zone.

Wild one

09-18-2009, 10:40 AM

No we should not give up but it would be easier to fix some of the other problems that do not bring the gov so much money such as fixing and restocking salmon spawning grounds (I know it is already going on but it needs to be done at a greater level). More enforcement of fishing laws on all international chemerical ,Native, and anglers. You can not put an end to fish farming because that is the only way to supply the demand for fish with out depleting all native fish stocks. As an example Canada can not even supply it's own demand for trout as 90% are imported from the states or Chilli. The only way to stop the damage of salmon farming is change the way it is done and that is a fight you stand a chance on winning as I know for a fact there are non destructive methods that can be performed inshore.

Neckshot

09-18-2009, 04:27 PM

I think all farms should be banned. We should all eat wild game. Forget beef, chicken salmon pork. We should give it all up and put all the pressure on the wild to feed the world. What could possibly go wrong...oh wait that's right the forests would be empty. Never mind. Salmon farming ain't the problem. The sockeye fishery collapsed in 1908...I think salmon farms showed up 80 years later. Makes a good story though. The fraser river run used to be 16 km long. The canneries took care of them in a real hurry. If you want to blame salmon farming go ahead. Morton has been proven to be wrong again. The pinks in the Broughton showed up in record numbers this year. Last year she said they would be extinct. Enviromentalists are liars looking for funding like just like the big companies they supposedly police...

thunderheart

09-18-2009, 05:12 PM

The pinks in the Broughton showed up in record numbers this year. Last year she said they would be extinct. Enviromentalists are liars looking for funding like just like the big companies they supposedly police...

i spent my summer in the broughtons .. record number of pinks returned ??? think you may be smoking some bad sheeeeet mon .. record numbers have not been the case for several yrs ,, i used to buy pink salmon commercially caught up there 16 or so yrs back when there were record numbers but yes ,, did you read that ,, i said yes there was a return of humpies in the knights and some in kingcome and all little rivers and creeks around the area .. record numbers ... NOT .... if you actually read Alex mortons work instead if listening to the boys at the bar you would know she said she feared that the pinks in the area COULD be extinct with in a couple of cycles ..

it always amazes me how some people call those that see a problem, spend yrs studying that problem make suggestions on how to fix that problem ,are ignored and then called anties .. tell me good people of the shire what are the people calling the whistle blowers anties called? .... idiots .. that might work .. blind at the least .. life is not, in my humble opinion and i repeat not all about getting the last fish the last piece of wood the last big bear .. life is not about capitalism aggression and "me first and phuque u all"...

one question people .... just one ... what if alex morton and all the SCIENCE .. not politics but SCIENCE she and the other researchers have come up with is true ...
oh right one more question ... anyone ever eat that shit they call farmed salmon ..

Salty

09-18-2009, 05:27 PM

i spent my summer in the broughtons .. record number of pinks returned ??? think you may be smoking some bad sheeeeet mon .. record numbers have not been the case for several yrs ,, i used to buy pink salmon commercially caught up there 16 or so yrs back when there were record numbers but yes ,, did you read that ,, i said yes there was a return of humpies in the knights and some in kingcome and all little rivers and creeks around the area .. record numbers ... NOT .... if ..

WTF :confused: Not sure what you were doing on the broughtons but you must not have spent much time on the water if you think there wasn't a bumper crop of pinks this year.

This week's North Island Gazette's front page story is of the record number of pinks salmon in the area. And Alex Morton is quoted in it as agreeing that's the case and she's glad it is. (She says its because the companys changed their fallow and sea lice practices. The fish farm companys say they haven't changed anything).

I live here. And I have only figured one thing out for sure. Anybody that tells you that they know what is causing shortfalls/bumper crops of various salmon runs are either confused or liars.

Ozone

09-18-2009, 07:22 PM

if you actually read Alex mortons work instead if listening to the boys at the bar you would know she said she feared that the pinks in the area COULD be extinct with in a couple of cycles ....

Well one time while she was vidioing me she said they will be extinct, not could be, I dont have to read her "work" its all written on toilet paper.

Browningmirage

09-19-2009, 07:20 AM

Well one time while she was vidioing me she said they will be extinct, not could be, I dont have to read her "work" its all written on toilet paper.

Not all work on parasites is done by her, although she does have a lot. A quick search found this

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/272/1564/689.full.pdf+html

In response to the statement that we can manage sea lice concentrations. True, but with some pretty severe side effects.

Ozone, humor me. What if her data and analysis of the trend is true? What do we stand to lose? With fish we never have all the data. Probably never will. We have to make guesses based on what information we have.

I think Morton missed the mark in the North Island Gazette. She said the extinction forecast was if nothing changed, and that the fish farms are doing a better job, and that is why we are seeing better returns. the PR people at marine harvest did a good job of making her look like an idiot through their comments.

I think what happened was more related to survival in the marine environment than fish farms doing a "better job". Oceanic scientists are indicating that we are in a period of 10 years of better ocean conditions for salmon survival. Usually each 10 years of good is followed by 10 years of bad (decadal oscillation). If we dont continue to look at it and come up with some solutions for if we are wrong, we do stand to lose a population. I am not going to put numbers on it, I am not going to promise it. I am going to put it out there as a possibility that if we dont change our acts, there will be some serious consequences.

dryflyguy57

09-19-2009, 08:51 AM

Lots of dedicated people working to get rid of these sh_t factories . I for one would start looking for another job as Marine Harvest and DFO are going down . Listen to Paul Sprout and tell me if you honestly believe his DFO position . One day he says he has no idea what happened to the sockeye and the very next day he says farms have nothing to do with the disapearance . 18,000 people have signed the petition against farms . Is there a pro farm petition out there circulating ? Jobs over wild stocks ! Give me a break !

Ozone

09-19-2009, 11:52 AM

Ozone (http://Ozone), humor me. What if her data and analysis of the trend is true? What do we stand to lose? With fish we never have all the data. Probably never will. We have to make guesses based on what information we have.

I dont have to play what if, I have science behind me. What you also have to understand is I am the guy that sees whats going on, I do lice counts every month, I look at the fish eating every day and notice different reactions, I do water samples and look for many different types of plankton, all which kill fish, every day. I am not some guy in a office reading a newspaper articale by some hippie who falsely says she is a scientest. I also grew up fishing for salmon and saw lice on all fish long before farms were around.

What if the sun expoded, what if robots took over the world, what if my child got cancer (if I had any), what if a bear attacks me while hiking or a whale rams me while sailing. There are alot of what ifs I could worry about but choose to enjoy life instead of playing what if.

branthunter

09-19-2009, 06:21 PM

Ozone --if you have science behind you please refer us to any peer reviewed journal articles that support the proposition that open net salmon pens are harmless to wild salmon, and in particular wild salmon smolts. You may have seen lice on salmon---we all have--but that's not the issue, it's so many lice on the smolts (the babies) that they kill them. Who do you work for while you're doing all the things you say you do and?

Ozone

09-19-2009, 08:03 PM

Here is some data regarding lice counts on pinks for 2005 - 2009 during out migration
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/aquaculture/pinksalmon-saumonrose/results-resultats/index-eng.htm

As for who I work for, I work for Marine Harvest. I have worked for them for 16 years and have farmed coho, chinook, atlantic, steelhead and even sockeye in my 22 years in the buisness. Perhaps you can tell us about you now:)

betteroffishing

09-19-2009, 08:37 PM

well done ozone , you represent your industries side of the arguement nobely. i love seeing people challenge the status quo , especially people with as much info , as many articles to cite and as much { more it seems } intimacy with the topic at hand . too many people with too much time on their hands seem to read only the articals that prove their allready entrenched ideas to be true , just to call names and claim all that disagree or dare to call the debate still on heretics and ignorants. for if you love fishing you MUST agree with me that fish farms are baaad.

Wild one

09-19-2009, 09:06 PM

Ozone that is info I have never seen before and has peaked my interest in to other info you have. The only info I get to hear is from those fighting it or low level off shore farmers(ones who just know how to do there part of the job and don't really know what is happening). I get all the aqua culture news letters but to be honest when it does not involve my field I don't read it.

Ozone

09-19-2009, 09:15 PM

I hear you there, I rarely read a artical about mussel farms in New Brunswick.

Dirty

09-19-2009, 09:22 PM

I hear you there, I rarely read a artical about mussel farms in New Brunswick.

Ozone, can you answer a few serious questions. I was sampling pinks and other salmon and noticed a couple of things.

1) Profuse amounts of sea lice on adult fish. When I say profuse, 22 louses on one fish. Notable marks on the outside of the fish between the caudal and anal fins. Looked like hemorraging. Is that a lot for a fish in fresh water?

2) Open lesions, looked like lamprey marks, but in a hotdog shape 1" wide, and 3-4" long on sockeye, coho, and pink salmon. They were red, not open cuts, but with whitish around the outside. What are they caused by?

Ozone

09-19-2009, 09:30 PM

Ozone, can you answer a few serious questions. I was sampling pinks and other salmon and noticed a couple of things.

1) Profuse amounts of sea lice on adult fish. When I say profuse, 22 louses on one fish. Notable marks on the outside of the fish between the caudal and anal fins. Looked like hemorraging. Is that a lot for a fish in fresh water?

2) Open lesions, looked like lamprey marks, but in a hotdog shape 1" wide, and 3-4" long on sockeye, coho, and pink salmon. They were red, not open cuts, but with whitish around the outside. What are they caused by?

1) Yes it is as lice normaly jump off fish as they go into fresh water.

2) I dont have a clue what lamprey marks look like.

Browningmirage

09-20-2009, 09:20 AM

1) Yes it is as lice normaly jump off fish as they go into fresh water.

2) I dont have a clue what lamprey marks look like.

Lamprey marks are round. Dogfish can make interesting looking marks in fish that match what dirty describes

Oh and Ozone, That data has no context. Nothing to compare it to. I can give you a dozen numbers, not tell you what they are, and you have learned absolutely nothing. summary stats for 7 years of data doesnt really explain much.

DFO is hardly a non-biased bystander. A friend of mine works for DFO, and they had a presentation given to them outlining how Alexandra Morton and other researchers with similar conclusions are wrong and the aquaculture industry is right.

Neckshot

09-24-2009, 04:00 PM

DFO is hardly a non-biased bystander. A friend of mine works for DFO, and they had a presentation given to them outlining how Alexandra Morton and other researchers with similar conclusions are wrong and the aquaculture industry is right.

Could it be maybe just maybe that Alexandra is wrong? I mean so far nothing she has said has come true. The pinks showed up in the Broughtons in record numbers this year (when she said they would be extinct). Same with the Quinsam in C River. Two of the biggest concentrations of salmon farms are in those areas. Conversely Alaska had the lowest returns of pinks and springs in recent history. I dont trust a single enviromental movement they all have a hidden agenda. Especially one that says the best way to save wild salmon is to eat more of them.

branthunter

11-27-2009, 12:05 PM

This is just a trailer for an apparently soon-to-be-released film, but it presents a fairly broad spectrum of commentators. The whole film should be interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eggrGn0V0fg

branthunter

03-28-2010, 12:33 PM

This is scary. Watch the first video on this site (Alex Follows a Trail of Lice) then have a look at the rest of the site. If you think there's a problem and you'd rather fish for salmon than bullheads---- join the march---contribute to the march---write your MP & MLA & the Minister----do something........the agenda here is to get the government bodies responsible to properly investigate and control the salmon farming industry.

http://www.salmonaresacred.org/video-gallery

branthunter

03-28-2010, 12:40 PM

Something else of interest sent out by Alexandra Morton of .
www.salmonaresacred.org <http://www.salmonaresacred.org>

Weekly update March 28

Our migration down the length of Vancouver Island from April 23 – May 9 to give people the opportunity to tell Ottawa wild salmon are essential is building. People have contacted me to plan events in communities far beyond those that we are passing through. Hundreds have said they will walk portion of the trip with us and have signed the new petition at www.salmonaresacred.org <http://www.salmonaresacred.org> Unless every person who cares about wild salmon stands up and becomes visible to Ottawa this will not succeed in bringing reason to this situation. You can download posters on the website. This is not about getting rid of aquaculture, this is about bringing three runaway Norwegian companies into compliance with the laws every other fishery in Canada respects.

Salmon farms were exempted from the fishing regulations of Canada in 1993 and these Norwegian companies are lobbying our Members of Parliament to continue these exemptions when they become federally regulated in December. If they succeed we can give up, they will once again be outside the law.

We cannot possibly manage Canada’s wild fish sustainably, if one group is allowed unlimited by-catch of wild herring, wild salmon, rock cod, black cod and other species in their nets. We cannot have one set of rules that says no fishing with bright lights and then allow fish farms on every major migration route to use these lights, attracting millions of wild fish to their farms. Scientists studying sockeye don’t know what is causing our Fraser sockeye to inexplicably crash, even when cutting back fishing to near zero has not helped. Only the south coast sockeye that migrate past 60 salmon farm sites vanished. These Norwegian fish farmers cannot be allowed to keep their disease outbreaks on the Fraser migration route secret any longer. Highly mechanized fish farms will never replace the wild salmon jobs in fishing and tourism, nor can they feed us as wild salmon do.

The tide is turning because of all of you. We will support the small communities we live in to build land-based aquaculture. Small independent businesses are much more stable than large foreign operators that come and go based on world markets. – please read the good news below and thank you. http://alexandramorton.typepad.com/

The Strathcona Regional District has defeated the zoning bylaw for the huge proposed Grieg Seafood fish farm at Gunner Pt.
http://www.georgiastrait.org/?q=node/958

"Controversial fish farm site rezoning defeated" (The Courier-Islander, 24th March
http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=f143b9f8-b499-4158-ba3d-b28708d66283 <http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=f143b9f8-b499-4158-ba3d-b28708d66283>

Below is a very significant show of solidarity between First Nations on removing fish farms from the incredibly valuable Fraser sockeye migration route. Scientists who specialize on Fraser sockeye and gathered by Simon Fraser University also made this recommendation.

Date: March 11, 2010
During the March 9-10, 2010 inaugural AGA of the Intertribal Treaty Organization (ITO) held in Prince George, attending Chiefs voted unanimously to support Indigenous Nations of the Broughton Archipelago and Georgia Straits for the immediate removal of fish farms from their territories to support in the survival of Fraser River bound fish stocks.
The member Chiefs of the ITO expressed their concern and support to urge the open net cage practices of the aquaculture industry to move toward closed containment. As the coming season and runs of Chums and Pinks draws near the Chiefs call for alternative aquaculture procedures recognizing the economic gains ventured by some coastal Nations. The concern is for the smolts that will arrive soon; Sockeye, Coho and Chinook. There is an increased mortality rate as they pass through the fish farm congested and bio-chemically hazardous inside passage which was cited as the primary cause of reduced returning stocks.

Lawrence Williams of the Splatsin, Secwepemc Nation, recognized the need for all to work together on this issue, “In our watershed, we are in support of that. If there could be a legal petition I could take it to the non-Native communities in our area, as well we could send that letter in to parliament supporting this, and if there could be a legal writing then I could send this through our watershed table area to the neighboring communities who could support us as well. Even though they are not First Nations they also share this responsibility for their future generations.“

Contact: Grand Chief Saul Terry, Intertribal Treaty Chair

Other Media

"Norwegian Farms Poison the Wild Run - BC's salmon stocks plunge; sea lice, salmon farms to blame" (The Dominion, 24th March): http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/3273

"Critics challenge health of Canadian salmon industry" (Food Manufacturing, 24th March): http://www.foodmanufacturing.com/scripts/ShowPR~RID~14925.asp

"Groups hope for co-operation" (The Telegraph Journal, 20th March): http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/city/article/990661

Ozone

03-28-2010, 02:17 PM

This is scary. .
http://www.salmonaresacred.org/video-gallery

Your correct that it is scary that you align yourself with these people. Lets take alook at who supports these type of people shall we.

Raincoast Conservation Foundation...they are but one that want to shut down the grizzley hunt.....you didnt put in for a grizz tag did you? I believe they also were instramental in stopping the wolf cull to help save the Mountian Cariboo, but dont quote me on that.

or how about good old David Suzuki Foundation, how many things does he want to shut down that we all enjoy. Is it not them throwing the indangered black kermode bear phrase around now?

These are but 2 supporters that you align yourself with, so yes I do find that scary

Browningmirage

03-28-2010, 03:03 PM

Your correct that it is scary that you align yourself with these people. Lets take alook at who supports these type of people shall we.

Raincoast Conservation Foundation...they are but one that want to shut down the grizzley hunt.....you didnt put in for a grizz tag did you? I believe they also were instramental in stopping the wolf cull to help save the Mountian Cariboo, but dont quote me on that.

or how about good old David Suzuki Foundation, how many things does he want to shut down that we all enjoy. Is it not them throwing the indangered black kermode bear phrase around now?

These are but 2 supporters that you align yourself with, so yes I do find that scary

I dont understand how you can be so sure that there is no problem here. Drug resistance in anything is not a good thing.

Are you trying to protect your livelihood? I simply dont get it. Most people are at least a bit open to the discussion, you are openly hostile.

Ozone

03-28-2010, 03:09 PM

you are openly hostile.

Not sure how you find me hostile when I am pointing out who is supporting who. Does that make me hostile?

Browningmirage

03-28-2010, 03:10 PM

Not sure how you find me hostile when I am pointing out who is supporting who. Does that make me hostile?

no no, I believe it was some of your previous posts on these topics (although I may have confused you with 3006)

Ozone

03-28-2010, 03:22 PM

no no, I believe it was some of your previous posts on these topics (although I may have confused you with 3006)

While I have been hot headed in the past, I find it better latey to just point out the facts and move on (but am willing to debate it if need be:mrgreen:).

While I do have a nice Tikka 3006 it is not my go to gun and I do believe you have confused the 2 of us.

Browningmirage

03-28-2010, 03:27 PM

While I have been hot headed in the past, I find it better latey to just point out the facts and move on (but am willing to debate it if need be:mrgreen:).

While I do have a nice Tikka 3006 it is not my go to gun and I do believe you have confused the 2 of us.

No worries then.:)

30.06 Hunter

03-28-2010, 03:52 PM

http://salmonfarmers.org/attachments/Beamish%20et%20al.%202009%20Gulf%20Islands%20sea%2 0lice.pdf

High levels of sea lice generally exceeding a prevalence of 60% were found on all species of juvenile Pacific salmon and on juvenile Pacific herring in the Gulf Islands area within the Strait of Georgia, British Columbia. Virtually all sea lice were Caligus clemensi and most stages were maturing or mature. There are no active fish farms in this area, indicating that this is a naturally occurring epizootic of sea lice. It is possible that the infection was associated with Pacific herring that spawned in the area in the spring, although the linkage between the spawning Pacific herring and the infection on Pacific salmon was not determined.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou-eng.htm

There continues to be surges of (mis)information circulated about sea lice and its impact on aquaculture in British Columbia, and more specifically the Broughton Archipelago. DFO is committed to protecting our finfish stocks, both farmed and wild. With this commitment in mind DFO researchers and scientists work diligently to ensure the safety and sustainability of both aquaculture and wild salmon fisheries.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou/lice-pou04-eng.htm
Are fish farms in the Broughton Archipelago causing a dramatic increase in sea lice levels?

No. Since 1953, there have been significant fluctuations in the number of pink salmon returns. This was long before salmon farms were introduced to the area in 1987.
Ongoing research conducted by DFO is showing that the levels of sea lice found on wild Pacific salmon in the archipelago have declined consistently each year since 2004.
It is also important to note that there are two sources of sea lice in the Broughton Archipelago, from natural sources (e.g.: the marine environment), and potentially from salmon farms. Sea lice existed on wild salmon for tens of thousands of years before the first salmon farm was established in Canada and wild salmon have adapted to them.

Is it true that sea lice are killing juvenile sockeye salmon?

No. Sea lice from salmon farms cannot singularly explain the extremely poor marine survival of Fraser River sockeye. Sockeye returns to the Skeena River in northern British Columbia were also significantly lower than anticipated this year and the migration route of juvenile sockeye from this river system does not take them anywhere near fish farms.

http://www.aboriginalaquaculture.com/home.htm

The Aboriginal Aquaculture Association was established as a federally incorporated company in July, 2003 by six Founding Members, representing a cross-section of aboriginal leaders in British Columbia. These leaders had come to realize that there were very few opportunities for their band members to look forward to within the resource sectors of their local communities. After careful studies, they concluded that various forms of aquaculture may provide successful careers for their communities, especially among young aboriginal people.

http://salmonfacts.blogspot.com/2009/01/facts-about-salmon-and-pcbs.html

Though the use of PCBs has been banned since the 1970s, they still persist in the food chain to this day, though at steadily decreasing levels. But as the chart from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer sourced from the U.S. FDA shows, the level of PCBs in salmon found in supermarket seafood sections and served in restaurants is lower than you find in a staple like salted butter or other common dinnertime fare like meatloaf, chicken breast and even brown gravy.

http://anativecanadian.blogspot.com/

So Called Researcher Exposed

Letter by Randy Lake submitted to the Campbell River Mirror Jan. 20, 05
Dear Editor:

Alexandra Morton displays the words "Registered Professional Biologist" next
to her name, yet she presents highly questionable studies to the courts and
at conferences, and publishes them in scientific journals with the support
of the Suzuki Foundation. While members of the scientific community
chastise Ms Morton for her abuse of the scientific process, members of the
Vancouver media seem determined to foist Ms Morton upon the public as a
credible entity. Ms Morton's professional association, the Association of
Professional Biologists, has also backed her claims.

In 2002, I attended an international conference and witnessed Alexandra
Morton present her research including a control study on Sea Lice. This
research was the start of the "Sea Lice Issue" that Ms Morton sold as a
journalistic controversy to the Vancouver media in 2001. She presented her
overly simplistic claim that, since the fish in her control site had "0
lice", her report of higher numbers of sea lice elsewhere must mean that sea
lice were caused by fish farms.

After persistent questioning about why she didn't disclose the number of
fish sampled for her control site, Ms Morton later admitted privately that
she "didn't catch any fish there". I submitted a formal complaint fo the
Association of Professional Biologists (APB) that their member Alexandra
Morton presented a false control study at the conference in violation of the
APB's Code of Ethics. She should have reported a result of "0 fish", not "0
lice". However, the APB's Discipline Committee described Ms Morton's
control study as "works in progress" and dismissed my complaint without a
hearing.

The following year, Ms Morton along with three co-authors published a 2002
sea lice study in the Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences
(CJFAS) in which she claimed to have used an unbiased sampling procedure - a
statistical method critical for publishing her study as science. I
published a letter to the editor about Alexandra Morton in the North Island
Gazette and received a phone call from one of Ms Morton's co-authors who
complained about my maligning Ms Morton in the media and demanded I tell her
what was wrong with their study.

However, Ms Morton's co-author went on to tell me she also disagrees with Ms
Morton's "use of the media", and that she had observed "very few lice" when
she helped Ms Morton dip net wild salmon smolts near a fish farm. She
stated that Ms Morton had even directed her to avoid sampling from some
groups of fish. I won't speculate how this picking and choosing of fish
affected Ms Morton's results, but it is not the valid statistical method
that she described in her study to get it published in CJFAS as science.

Ms Morton presented herself as a witness in a 1997 Washington State court
case brought by American political activists against Washington fish
farmers. Ms Morton claimed to have undertaken a killer whale study in which
she listened for killer whales through an underwater hydrophone from her
house in the Broughton Archipelago. A marine mammal expert reported to the
court that for Ms Morton to have collected the enormous amount of killer
whale data reported in her study she would need to have been listening for
killer whales inside her home 24 hours a day, 11 consecutive months a year,
for the last 14 years. Under cross-examination, Ms Morton replied that she
accomplished this feat, adding that she can identify killer whales in her
sleep: "The underwater listening that I do broadcasts right in to my home
and work space, so whether I'm cooking dinner or sleeping or doing research,
I'm always listening and, yes, I've now been there for fourteen years. To
say I've been away for a month every year was actually a generous allowance
on my part." Ms Morton later described a different methodology for that
same killer whale study and published it in ICES Journal of Marine Science.
I believe that it formed part of her credentials for membership in the APB.

Ms Morton has claimed to have a Bachelor of Science degree. Yet, in her
direct testimony to the Washington State court she stated she has a Bachelor
of Arts degree, then in a later statement she said she received a science
degree for this two-year Bachelor of Arts program in linguistics in which
the students "designed the program themselves". This so-called science
degree from a two year Arts program did not include a curriculum in biology,
chemistry, or physics. Ms Morton stated that she received no additional
training in biology or life sciences.

During the same period in which she was presenting debatable studies to the
court in Washington State, Ms Morton publicly claimed that a dead killer
whale had been killed by "mutant bacteria" from a fish farm. Dr. Mike Kent,
Chair of the Microbiology Department at Oregon State University did a
necropsy on that killer whale. He found the killer whale had died from
starvation due to a naturally deformed jaw. A week after his results were
released, Dr. Kent heard Ms Morton on a Vancouver radio station once again
claiming the killer whale had been killed by fish farms.

It is the unbiased skepticism of objective scientists that gives science its
credibility. Alexandra Morton has been operating under the guise of
objectivity for too long. She is an activist cum biologist who does a
disservice to the science she is sworn to uphold.

Randy Lake, MSc.
Salmon Biologist

Neckshot

03-29-2010, 09:26 AM

Amen to that.

branthunter

04-20-2010, 11:05 PM

Unlawful by-catch of wild salmon by Norwegian fish farm company

(April 20, 2010, Port Hardy) Today, Todd Gerhart of the Department of Justice, stayed charges laid by biologist Alexandra Morton against Marine Harvest, the largest Norwegian fish farm company in the world, for unlawful possession of wild salmon. In a landmark initiative Gerhart advised the Court that on April 16, 2010, DOJ filed a new indictment against Marine Harvest, including the original charges laid by Alexandra Morton as well as new charges for unlawful possession of herring reported in October 2009. Mr. Gerhart will be the prosecutor.

Morton and her lawyer Jeffery Jones are relieved. “It is my strong opinion,” says Mr. Jones, a former Crown Prosecutor for DOJ, “that this industry was given access to the BC coast and appears to have been conducting itself as if it were above the law. Today’s decision by Mr. Gerhart and the Department of Justice confirms that no corporation is above the law. This is why private prosecutions are important democratic safeguards. Ms. Morton’s prosecution has triggered enforcement action by DOJ. I am extremely pleased by Mr. Gerhart’s decision.”

In June of 2009, young wild salmon were observed falling from a load of farm salmon being off-loaded from Marine Harvest’s vessel Orca Warrior. Some of these fish were collected and Marine Harvest admitted in the newspaper to catching the wild salmon. “By-catch” is fish caught without a licence in the process of fishing for other species. By-catch is strictly controlled in all other fisheries and in some cases causes entire fisheries to be shut down.

“For decades we have heard reports of wild fish trapped in fish farms, eaten by the farm fish and destroyed during harvest,” says biologist Alexandra Morton, “but when DFO was informed of these offenses they would not, or could not, lay a charge. Canada cannot manage wild fish like this. You can’t regulate commercial and sport fishermen and then allow another group unlimited access to the same resource. BC will lose its wild fish.”

In 1993, the Pacific Fishery Regulations exempted salmon farms from virtually all fishing regulations. Unlike commercial fishermen, salmon farmers can use bright lights known to attract wild fish. The oily food pellets they use also attract fish and wildlife. Commercial fishermen are required to pay for observers and cameras on their vessels that record by-catch, so that fishing can be halted to preserve non-targeted stocks. No such enforcement has been applied to salmon farmers, despite regular reports of black cod, rock cod, herring, lingcod, wild salmon, Pollock, capelin and other species in the pens, in stomachs of the farmed fish and destroyed at harvest time….Until now.

“This is a ray of hope that we can work through the issue of Norwegian salmon farming in BC waters. I am thankful to hand this over to the Department of Justice. Aquaculture is not the problem. The problem is the reckless way government sited it, managed it and gave it priority over the public fisheries. I call on government to protect the families now dependant on this industry as it undergoes the long overdue scrutiny of the courts, the judicial inquiry and public opinion.“

Trapper D

11-10-2011, 10:54 AM

Dirty, interesting now , that we are becoming more eduacated on , diseases and viruses. Possibly what you were looking at was the Infectious Salmon Anemia that hasnt been widely talked about. I think we as sportsfishermen , as well as commercial fisherman, must look for possible signs of such diseases , as we catch them, and learn how to appropriatly handle them , as well as contacting the right people who can examine them. I myself caught several sockeyes this year, and while I was cleaning one, I took a second look because when i was gutting , I noticed pale gills, then for some reason, double checked thinking maybe the salmon was a different species. It wasnt and continued on. Well , now since the Infectious Salmon Anemia, Im thinking I might have canned one. As it did have quite pale gills, kind of mucky as well. Obviously I'm no expert, but I'm now going to read more , so I can potentially identify possible disease. I personnally think , it is a very good idea to be able to generally identify possible infected salmon, then contact the right sources for inspection. IMO