Good or bad??

[B]

Group pays to end killing on central coast

Conservationists buy rights to big-game hunt

Nicholas Read, Vancouver Sun

Published: Tuesday, December 13, 2005
For the first time in B.C. history, an anti-hunting group has bought the guide-outfitting rights to a prime piece of the province's wilderness with a view to ending permanently the commercial killing of all animals in the area.
Late in November, the Raincoast Conservation Foundation paid $1.35 million to acquire the guide-outfitting rights to five contiguous hunting regions along the central B.C. coast. Together the regions, which stretch from the northern tip of Vancouver Island in the south to Princess Royal Island in the north and cover a land mass of more than 20,000 square kilometres, are home to hundreds of species, including such popular commercial game as grizzlies, black bears, the so-called spirit bear (a genetic anomaly of the black bear that manifests itself in a white coat), wolves, cougar, mountain goats, moose and deer.
But Raincoast, in conjunction with the six first nations that occupy the territory -- the Heiltsuk, Kitasoo, Xai'xais, Wuikinuxv, Gwa'Sala-Nakwaxda'xw and Nuxalk -- intend to put an immediate end to all commercial hunting in the area. That means no one from outside B.C. would be permitted to kill any animals in the region for sport. B.C. residents, who operate under different regulations, may continue to hunt and kill wildlife in the area, but members of the five first nations hope to see an end to that early next year.
The deal will be announced at a press conference in Vancouver later today. The money was raised by the Raincoast Conservation Foundation, fundraising arm of the Raincoast Conservation Society.
According to provincial regulations, licensed guide-outfitters must continue to facilitate some hunting in areas for which they are responsible. Raincoast conservation director Ian McAllister, who helped broker the deal, said Raincoast will live up to those obligations by allowing hunting of some ungulates -- hoofed grazing animals -- for food. But henceforth commercial trophy hunting will be a thing of the past.
Raincoast will hold the licence indefinitely although the province will charge an annual fee, which will be negotiated.
"There is no other example in North America where conservation interests have bought out such a large commercial hunting area before," McAllister said.
First nations representatives, who are negotiating a land and resource management plan with Victoria, say they hope the deal will be expanded in early 2006 to include a ban on resident sport hunting as well. About 40 per cent of all animals killed along the coast are killed by resident hunters.
"First nations don't hunt for trophies," said Heiltsuk chief Ross Wilson. "We kill for need, not desire."
Wilson said he has met with Environment Minister Barry Penner and Agriculture and Lands Minster Pat Bell to put forward his nation's case against trophy hunting. "I think the minister hears us," Wilson said. "What he does might be another story."
Kitasoo band manager Percy Starr was more optimistic. "I'm very much excited about the status of our government-to-government process now," Starr said. "It appears they want to negotiate with us. I know there will be some major changes in our relationship. I'm hopeful that they will support what we want."

[fozzy]

Bad bad bad!
The guide outfitters are allocated a certain number of tags in their region as far as I know, which is part of the conservation plan and management strategies. This conservation group is supposed to harvest a certain number of animals, I would bet that the natives will take care of that.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the natives guiding in that region. They do that in Saskatchewan, buy up land with our money, stop residents from hunting there then guide non residents.
I really get a laugh when bears start being a problem by going to the towns and raising hell, then who cries help.
How can the natives stop BC residents from hunting an area? That's just plain BS. Sounds like another closet deal that the Liberals put together. You know once the natives have the right to stop us from hunting in one region what stops them from going for more? Then when there are no places to hunt why do we need to own firearms?
The whole deal sounds ugly. BAD BAD BAD

[Sniper]

It is great for residents as long as the government does not cow-tow to the Indians, and who knows the government dose some pretty haywire things without consulting us. Eliminating guide outfitters and reducing there size back to mom and pop family operations is something that the government should have had in the works anyway. Who said Canadians have an obligation to supply the world with trophy animals anyway?:grin:

[slick_macd]

Unfortunitaly this is a view of what is to come. Things are going to get bad until the general public has had enough and stands against the gov and their ideas. This is why the government is trying to take away our guns slowley. Whe the rovolution comes the governments doesn't want to have angry civilians running around with guns (This is how they think, in and along the lines of self preservation).

We need to prepare for the future, and stand together when the time comes.

[mainland hunter]

why would hunters think it's good to eliminate guide/outfitters. they create revenue which the government can tax making it valueable for hunting to remain. any victories by these anti-hunting groups is a horrible thing.

[Ride]

Of course this is a bad thing. Like you are all thinking right now this has to be stopped before more of this happens. If we don't stop them now and get public interest on our side, This will be the province. Right now they say only trophy hunting has stopped for non-residents. You can be sure their main goal will to eventually keep EVERYONE out of their "little area". And i thought we lived in a province whose land was owned by the people. Why should they even be able to think about keeping anyone out...........................

[Shoey]

Who the heck are you guys that think this is a good thing????

The first thing these nut jobs want to do is divide us agianst each other!!!

[steel_ram]

Just because the guide probably thought he was king of that domain and sold it to these wackers as such, doesn't mean these new "guides" can do dick all as far as controlling access to residents for hunting or any other activity. I guess we'll see how this pans out. Maybe they'll start there own country and call it Suzukiland or something.

One thing though, they did blow a good wad of cash.

[Ride]

If they do proclaim Suzukiland i say we invade..........

[B]

I am not saying it is a good thing, just asking a question....the way it was presented to me was it was good for resident hunters, keeping U.S hunters out and increasing opportunity for residents, I know of the benifits of the dollars they bring in ect, ect, I just thought I would get some informed opinions on it so I posted it...so relax, no need to kill the messenger or in this case the long time hunter caring enough to ask.....

[islandhunter]

would first nations be considered resident hunters? like they couldnt hunt the land either?

[Shoey]

would first nations be considered resident hunters? like they couldnt hunt the land either?

BINGO!

Anything that is done by anti-hunting groups like the raincoast 'conservation' fund in conjuction with indians and people like David Suzuki and Greenpeace IS NOT A GOOD THING!

There was a quote in the Times-Colonist today by some indian chief, he said 'First Nations don't hunt for trophies, we kill for need, not desire'. WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT!

IT GOES ON TO SAY that they plan to ban resident hunting in early 2006.
*NEWSFLASH* Early 2006 starts in 18 days!

I just love how trash like this flies under the radar until it happens, and then it's in every newspaper in the country!

[B]

From what I understand resident hunters will not be affected, just people getting guided in or non residents..

[islandhunter]

I dont see why ANY 1 group has the rights to an area that big. This is OUR province!!!

[Shoey]

From what I understand resident hunters will not be affected, just people getting guided in or non residents..

Quote from Victoria Times-Colonist; Tuesday, December 13, 2005. [PAGE A3]

'First Nations representatives, who currently are negotiating a Land and Resource Management Plan with the province, say they hope the deal will be expanded in early 2006 to include a ban on Resident Sport Hunting as well.'

[B]

Quote from Victoria Times-Colonist; Tuesday, December 13, 2005. [PAGE A3]

'First Nations representatives, who currently are negotiating a Land and Resource Management Plan with the province, say they hope the deal will be expanded in early 2006 to include a ban on Resident Sport Hunting as well.'

Lets relax, we are talking about guiding rights, nothing else, they don't own the land, everyone other than guided nonresidents can hunt there.

[islandhunter]

I agree B, but its one more step in a bad direction in my eyes.

[B]

I understand but how can we stop them from buying guiding rights? They bought it fairly and can do with them what they wish, that is however still the residents land, but it hasn't affected our rights, has it?

[Tuffcity]

No, let's NOT RELAX!! The whole quote of "hope the deal will be expanded in early 2006 to include a ban on Resident Sport Hunting as well" should be sounding alarm bells. It might be easy to blow off a lone quote by some native leader but make no mistake, if it catches the ear of a senior bureaucrat or two it could become a serious contender for reality. Take a look at the past provincial NDP government, you had the tourism minister in bed with Raincoast and the next thing grizzly hunting was stopped.

Raincoast loves to hang the term "trophy hunting" out there because most non-hunters are still stuck with the 1950's impression that it means you take the head and leave the rest, regardless of what species it is and how current game laws apply to wastage.

When the Hunting and Fishing Heritage Act (http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/T/02079_01.htm) was introduced by a Liberal (provincial) MLA, the MLA from Oak Bay opposed it. I emailed him and asked him why and he responded by saying that his constituents didn't like the idea of "trophy hunting".

I guess what I'm saying this that apathy kills, in this case it kills our right to hunt and fish "as formerly" (to borrow a treaty phrase :smile: ). Now is the time to write your local MLA and find out their stand on this proposal to limit (nay, end) resident hunting in this particular management unit(s). DO NOT delude yourself into thinking that it will only affect "Americans" and that there will be more for me. That is very short sighted thinking, and will bite you in the ass in the long run.

Flood the "Ledge" boys and girls, and let your MLA know where you stand on the issue of a possible resident hunter exclusion zone! Be proactive, not reactive.

RC

[Shoey]

Thank you Tuffcity!!!

Just relaxing is the same attitude people took with the Firearm Act, and look where we are with that!

I don't think any of us, especially if your kicking back with your feet up while *stuff* like this happens, realize how many people and groups are out there working against us! AND THEY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPONS OF ALL, the complacency and ignorance of the general public.

Luckily have the most powerful weapon of all, TRUTH. There is only one flaw, we have to get off our asses and get the it out to the people.

You can bet your ass if an indian wants something in this province / country, whether it's a ban on hunting, more money or a ham sandwich, the government's gonna give it to them!

:mad:

[Crimson Viking]

Bad. How can a group that is not a legitimate licenced guide buy the guiding right to land in BC. That makes no sense at all. You have to be a licenced guide to guide in BC so why would rights be sold to a group that isn't legit.

I don't understand , definatly don't understand, definatly , definatly.

[Steeleco]

Not that the GOABC have been our allie of late with the Cariboo issue but has anyone on the inside seen anything that may reflect the groups opinion on this issue. 20,000 sq km has to have quite a dent on the local economies. I should think that the 1.35 mil is nothing compared to the lost wages of all the service oriented people in this area. I agree with some of the previous post that say we should pressure the Gov't to make them maintain their obligation that the previous title hold had to.

[Tuffcity]

Probably the first politicians to start with are Environment Minister Barry Penner barry.penner.mla@leg.bc.ca (barry.penner.mla@leg.bc.ca) and the Minister of Agriculture and Lands, Pat Bell pat.bell.mla@leg.bc.ca (pat.bell.mla@leg.bc.ca) .

Both of these fellows where mentioned in the news article as having met with the Native Representatives.

CC your own MLA as well. Their info can be found at http://www.legis.gov.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm

RC

[bensonvalley]

I wouldn't relax on this issue, instead I'd start getting prepared. Based on my experience in the mid-coast forest industry, these groups are professional, smart, well-financed and exceptionally focused. They WILL get what they want especially if there is no resistance offered. They have the media, the urban populations and the bureaucrats on their side. This scares the crap out me. If the First Nations in this area get their say in how Provincial hunting regs are written, we are screwed. Every other FN's will do the same thing and get the regs written to suit their needs. The government's "New Relationship" document will play into this too. The BCWF and all other local groups had better get organized to fight this goal of stopping resident hunting.

[Steeleco]

I tried to write a letter but gave up. Head's not thinhing straight, but I will be call my Local MLA in the morning. This is crap and needs to be stopped before we need a permit to go for a F*n walk with a camera. I wonder just how many of the major players in the "Raincoast" dipshit group even live in Canada let alone BC. I for one won't stop hunting even if they buy up the whole province, they just call is something different when your breaking the rules.

[416]

I don't think anything has changed really.......same sh!t, different day. That a tree hugging group bought up the guiding concessions..so what..any body or group with the cash could have done the same thing. When working guides outfits were operating in the area, they were doing the same as other operators do....... lobbying the provincial govt to protect their territories with what ever will fly to protect their business interests against ALL intrusions including resident hunters.. And who can really blame them for wanting to protect their lively hoods. Now there are new owners who have the same basic outlook as the guides did towards us resident hunters. As for the natives and their carrying on........whats changed, no one has really brought up anything new that the first nations aren't already doing or contemplating doing. Somehow it seems, if it has any value (usually complements of European descent people) the first nations folks figure its theirs, so this is no different.....
This whole issue pivots around the our provincial govt and getting promises or preferably laws in place that our rights as resident hunters will be protected. This is something that is not dependent on tree huggers, natives or anyone else's approval. We get our collective asses in gear and the various groups that would like to see our rich heritage of hunting and enjoying the outdoors ended, would find it a lot harder if we presented a strong front. So far that "cohesiveness" has eluded the firearms community and until we do "get it together" we will be thrashed by every group that is better organized then we are......

[cwocarsten]

I say all hunters carry syup bottles and rope to tie the tree huggers to their precious trees and then douse them in syup and let them get a birds eye view of their cute little teddy bears licking off the icing before they eat their cake.

[fozzy]

Just a bit more food for thought. Now that this group has bought the guiding rights to this area in my mind it's one step closer to them asking the province to grant it to them as a PARK. Then nobody will be hunting there for sure. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. I could see this as being how they stop resident hunters from hunting there. Ah and the best part.. the natives would still be allowed becouse it's their traditional hunting area and don't have to follow the same rules as you and I anyway.

An area near Sooke where lots of recreation was to be had, fishing,camping,hiking,hunting, riding dirt bikes etc was bought up by TLC and the Capital Region District and is now a park. Hiking only, unless you happen to be a TLC employee or family which seem to be allowed to drive to one of the 4 lakes and have private camp sites.
Anyway that's just an example of how these groups work. Wait and see! Hopefully you don't wait.

[fozzy]

Here this is from their web site. http://www.raincoast.org/publications/news/buyout-dec2005.htm

Check out the left side of the web page. A Thrifty's advertisment. That's enough for me to shop somewhere else.

Here is a quote from their site. See where they mention "aggressively addressing human access into BC’s wildlands" that's you and me. I'm sorry but these people won't stop at just targeting guides for grizzly bears.

"Last June, the EU informed the BC government that for imports to continue, it must implement the recommendations of its Independent Scientific Panel, which included setting up grizzly bear no-hunting reserves of protected habitat throughout the province and aggressively addressing human access into BC’s wildlands. However, for the vast majority of these recommendations, no progress has occurred and several decisions that are contrary to the recommendations have been made."

[Sniper]

One of their spokesman said this dose not affect resident hunters and it is up to the government to deal with residents. I guess what goes around comes around, was it not GOABC that wanted the government to ban all residents from hunting crown land? Sounds like they wanted to shuv a stick up the residents ass and break it off and squealed like a stuck pig when it happened to them. Lets face it they beat us at our own game in a way did they not? Instead of scrapping it out with GOABC we should have been smart enough to band together and do the same thing they are doing! But it seems as though most of the people cannot agree on anything most of the time! As for the damage to the economy we just had a sawmill closed localy with the permanent loss of 170 jobs! beleive me this will hurt the economy far worse than shutting down 1 Outfitter.

[jackychiles]

VERY VERY bad......Jacky

[Deerwhacker]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
GOD I HATE THOSE DAM HIPPIES!!
i should start a foundation to raise money to dissalough any use of topho and marijawana.

[tangozulu]

Just a bit more food for thought. Now that this group has bought the guiding rights to this area in my mind it's one step closer to them asking the province to grant it to them as a PARK. Then nobody will be hunting there for sure. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. I could see this as being how they stop resident hunters from hunting there. Ah and the best part.. the natives would still be allowed becouse it's their traditional hunting area and don't have to follow the same rules as you and I anyway.

An area near Sooke where lots of recreation was to be had, fishing,camping,hiking,hunting, riding dirt bikes etc was bought up by TLC and the Capital Region District and is now a park. Hiking only, unless you happen to be a TLC employee or family which seem to be allowed to drive to one of the 4 lakes and have private camp sites.
Anyway that's just an example of how these groups work. Wait and see! Hopefully you don't wait.

I agree with Fozzy, and the Park all ready has a name - Great Bear Rain Forest. The media has been on side for years - calling this part of the coast just that - even though it is on no map I own.
We as resident hunters are about to fall off a cliff.
The same strategy in the central coast used by Protectionists is applied to the north coast soon after. In this case it is Utah based Round River Conservation Studies that will be in the drivers seat. They want to shut down the Taku River.

[tangozulu]

Bad. How can a group that is not a legitimate licenced guide buy the guiding right to land in BC. That makes no sense at all. You have to be a licenced guide to guide in BC so why would rights be sold to a group that isn't legit.

I don't understand , definatly don't understand, definatly , definatly.

I highly doubt that the Raincoast group would have dropped the 1.35 million if they hadn't already talked to someone in either the government or ministry so that the rules could be somewhat bent.
I know if I bought a tree farm license, I couldnt just sit on it. Entire regions would be dependent on it being managed.
The native bands are goin for a park for sure...................and the gov is over a barrel to consult in their NEW RELATIONSHIP with native governments.
Its been nice sharing a campfire with you guys.

[Ken]

Enough is Enough!

I for 1 am sick of this kind of shit, every time I pic up a news paper or turn on the TV there is some story about the government bowing to some special intrest group, something has to be done, we need to organize ourselves

together we stand, divided we fall. come on boys

now is the time, before it is too late

[fozzy]

The rules won't be bent. They are a registered guide. And they will get the natives to guide for them ( in the park ) 'cause it's our land eh. Remember the native road blocks up north, I never saw one but heard about them? They want us out of their forest. I'm positive this is how it will pan out.
I hate to see it.


I highly doubt that the Raincoast group would have dropped the 1.35 million if they hadn't already talked to someone in either the government or ministry so that the rules could be somewhat bent.
I know if I bought a tree farm license, I couldnt just sit on it. Entire regions would be dependent on it being managed.
The native bands are goin for a park for sure...................and the gov is over a barrel to consult in their NEW RELATIONSHIP with native governments.
Its been nice sharing a campfire with you guys.

[CHilko21]

If they do proclaim Suzukiland i say we invade..........

I second that notion! This is bad bad bad...how long til they kick the resident hunters out too???

[Islandeer]

Well the natives have the government by their respective genitalias. And the gracious greenies are telling them how hard to squeeze. May a dead Rainforest snag fall on them both. We as hunters are the original conservationists,we are the ones forking out millions so we can hunt. the trouble is that our revenue goes to the Gov,maybe we should suck it up and start buying our own territories. Sounds grandiose,but the other side did it. I am going to contact the BCWF,we all need to get involved and get organised. We can't protect OUR rights by watching others take them away.

[tangozulu]

Well the natives have the government by their respective genitalias. And the gracious greenies are telling them how hard to squeeze. May a dead Rainforest snag fall on them both. We as hunters are the original conservationists,we are the ones forking out millions so we can hunt. the trouble is that our revenue goes to the Gov,maybe we should suck it up and start buying our own territories. Sounds grandiose,but the other side did it. I am going to contact the BCWF,we all need to get involved and get organised. We can't protect OUR rights by watching others take them away.

I think islander said it best, and has a good sensible plan too.
I'm writing my mla

[kutenay]

Writing your M.P. or M.L.A. is good, BUT, it is not the most effective method of putting pressure on governments. The Indians, for example, have been VERY successful at demanding and getting special "rights" because they have learned how to manipulate the mass media from the cultural traitors of the political left. Slagging "greenies" annd so forth is actually self-defeating as is calling Indians names; I know it's tempting, but, doing so will work to their benefit.

Consistently stressing the traditional, food gathering and family enhancing aspects of hunting, angling and berrypicking while also advocating an end to "non-resident alien" trophy hunting will, IMHO, resonate favourably with the public at large and also make "good copy" for the media. The consistent advocacy of simple equality among ALL Canadians and gaining the historical knowledge to truthfully contradict the popular lies about the terrible treatment of Indians in Canada will also be very helpful....."know the truth and the truth shall set you free" is a very sound approach to this whole situation. I am NOT religious, but, that is very wise counsel.

This situation, if properly handled, can be the BEST thing for resident hunters in a long, long time. I want to see a permanent end to non-Canadians hunting in B.C. and would like to see the current G/O's quotas used, in part, to provide hunting opportunities for our fellow Canucks from other provinces. Canada For Canadians!!!!

[Sniper]

Wow! Great post Kutenay! Couldn't have said it better! This could be very good news for resident hunters as you say, I think your rationalization of how it should be is right on!:grin: Like the spokesman for the greenies said it's up to the government to make changes regarding residents and I honestly don't think the government is in any more of a hurry to change anything to do with resident hunters today than it was before this story hit the news media. Now if we can get behind an organization like the BCWF to start an Outfitter concession buy back buy out deal or make a proposal to the government to hike hunting license fees for this purpose it would be great!:grin:

[timber]

well its you lucky Day to day. Its real easy. Get 12 of you best hunting buddys put in 33,000.00 eh you can have my 4,000 mile area ,hunt a bull moose each,and every year, and still have 4 cow tag's and a grizz tag, each year left over for when the uninvited 4th removed cousin drop's in for a hunt. you also get a log main lodge ,6 log gest cabins ang 6 out cabins. thats cheep to be abel to have a bull tag + 4 exta cow tags and a grizz to give away(not sell) for the rest of you life. you can hunt 6 months a year,:-)

[Shoey]

Get 12 of you best hunting buddys put in 33,000.00 eh you can have my 4,000 mile area

Do you take post-dated, out-of-state, third party cheques?

[Gateholio]

well its you lucky Day to day. Its real easy. Get 12 of you best hunting buddys put in 33,000.00 eh you can have my 4,000 mile area ,hunt a bull moose each,and every year, and still have 4 cow tag's and a grizz tag, each year left over for when the uninvited 4th removed cousin drop's in for a hunt. you also get a log main lodge ,6 log gest cabins ang 6 out cabins. thats cheep to be abel to have a bull tag + 4 exta cow tags and a grizz to give away(not sell) for the rest of you life. you can hunt 6 months a year,:-)

Where is your area?

[Islandeer]

Your right Kutes,the high road though steep and demanding will win more people over than ethnic ranting. Sometimes too you have to get in bed with your advisary to get a leg up. The natives are looking out for themselves which is a normal human trait. They are making sure that the message that they want the politicians and the general public to hear is being conveyed correctly. It's politics and we need to become better at it. The hunting heritage movement needs to tap into our strengths,we can all contribute.

[timber]

Do you take post-dated, out-of-state, third party cheques? shoey what dates on it.:grin: gatehouse 7