IMMATURES questions

[ratherbefishin]

Having drawn ''nil'' for 6 years in a row,I'm looking for the elusive ''immature'' again-any idea of what percentage of bulls will be'' immature''
and-are the chances of seeing one better or worse in the rut?Do they hang out with the cows-or are they on their own ?[I've never seen an immature-called in nice bulls but nary a legal one]

[todbartell]

I heard 5% of population is spike/fork

[martyonthewater]

I've also heard that if they're in the area, immy's are usually the first to respond to a cow call. no idea on percentages

[Bowtime]

I find where I hunt, the immature bulls are with the cows before the rut. Then when the rut begins the larger bulls move in and the smaller bulls are forced out. so I call in smaller bulls more often in the rut. mainly because they are not with cows anymore. And I always use a cow call.

[Gus]

I've seen immy's with cows, by themselves, and with big bulls. I have called them in more than once but if there is a bigger bull close they will probably be hesitant. Its pretty much shit house luck i think. Also remember to take a second look at that "cows" ears. Sometimes those little chunks of bone are hard to see.

[ratherbefishin]

so-would scheduling a hunt pre rut be better?[5% odds is pretty low-but maybe that accounts for me never seeing one]

[jml11]

3 of 4 spike fork kills I have been a part off, the bulls were alone including two kills in september before the rut. The other bull (shot opening day, sept 10) was in a cohort group (all yearlings) with another bull (3X3) and cow.

Others that I have seen but not been able to harvest have been alone or hanging with moose of the same age or maybe a year older. I have yet to see a spike fork with it's cow or with a mature bull.

[kyleklassen]

shot a spike bull in the middle of october that was with a cow. only other one i've seen was by itself in early nov.

[LYKTOHUNT]

I've seen immy's with cows, by themselves, and with big bulls. I have called them in more than once but if there is a bigger bull close they will probably be hesitant. Its pretty much shit house luck i think. Also remember to take a second look at that "cows" ears. Sometimes those little chunks of bone are hard to see.
I have called them in in the late season (Nov)and I agree with Gus have a real good look at those ears sometimes there is bone hiding in there

[gary murray]

I missed an immy last year that was with a cow and calf.

[jml11]

Most often when I run into a bull it is an immature so my thoughts are the "precentage" is higher than 5% but maybe I am just lucky. The percentage of legal spike fork bulls is harder to figure out as so many immatures will end up as 3 point and greater bulls. It may also vary by regions accross the province. As an example, Region 7a has an open calf season so maybe the percentage of immatures would be lower than other regions due to this harvest?

I recall several years back, I believe when Region 5 implemented (and quickly repealed) their spike-fork season, it stated in the regs that approx 17% of moose where "immature" bulls. My thoughts were that this should have stated that 17% of all bulls were "immature" which would put the overall numbers closer to the 5% that bartell stated. Honestly the numbers are low but in some areas there seems to be more than others. I have never had much trouble finding them but I live in a very moosy area so my chances of running into one is pretty good (relatively speaking). Last season I hunted moose two days, saw 7 moose: 3 cows, 1 calf, 1 mature bull and 2 immatures. I consider those to be a very good two days of moose hunting!

[NEEHAMA]

immy's are the dumbest of the moose bulls.

remind me of two point mulies.

i shot a 4x2 immy a few years back. it was with a cow. at first glance it looked like a cow and calf until i seen the spikes with the bino's.

[835]

in my opinion there is not enough immature bulls out there to make a worth while hunt. I've hunted moose now for a number of years and have gone on immy hunts and "had a great time" but no moose. i would rather go deer huning up a mountain somewhere. in saying that i only call moose in and once was told by an old timer that the immature bulls show at 9:30
i know it sounds a little precise but that year he was right. the other thing he said was they will snort mucus in to their snout on the treeline to help smell if their is a bull with the cow (me). that year he was right. the final thing he told me was that if you miss the above signs they just show up, as they are trying to sneak in without the bull noticing. You will see them in the cutblock all of a sudden. They do not grunt their way in as a bull does.THAT being said this was immy #2 and personally ive shot 2 in 10years. This might be because i deer hunt when we dont get tags.

[SUAFOYT]

We've been real lucky with them in the past- the wife and I scored a double a few years ago in Late October- with a cow at the time. Got one in 7-06 during peak rut while calling, called a big bull out that was with a cow and when we were walking out the 2 point ran right into us so I assume he was hanging on the fringes. Got another locally 2 years ago in mid to late October by himself. Pure luck IMO. I have heard but don't know the real #'s that of the ones that are legally an immature by the regs, a larger % are the 3x3 that we see and can't take. They are probably the same age as in birth year as the spike fork but just have a little more growth that allows them to make the cut.

[todbartell]

this thread needs some immy pics :mrgreen:

Sept 10, all alone
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Sept_10th_2006_LEH_Bull_010.jpg

late October, was with a two cows
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/13Pictures_732.jpg

an 'almost' immy - was with a cow/calf late October
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/501/medium/Oct_24_07_25_.JPG

Sept 18 I think, was with a cow (my first moose! :-D)
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/1997_first_moose.jpg

I shot a 5x4 bull on LEH in 2001, Sept 20 or so, he was with an immy.

they exist!!!!

[GoatGuy]

Most often when I run into a bull it is an immature so my thoughts are the "precentage" is higher than 5% but maybe I am just lucky. The percentage of legal spike fork bulls is harder to figure out as so many immatures will end up as 3 point and greater bulls. It may also vary by regions accross the province. As an example, Region 7a has an open calf season so maybe the percentage of immatures would be lower than other regions due to this harvest?

I recall several years back, I believe when Region 5 implemented (and quickly repealed) their spike-fork season, it stated in the regs that approx 17% of moose where "immature" bulls. My thoughts were that this should have stated that 17% of all bulls were "immature" which would put the overall numbers closer to the 5% that bartell stated. Honestly the numbers are low but in some areas there seems to be more than others. I have never had much trouble finding them but I live in a very moosy area so my chances of running into one is pretty good (relatively speaking). Last season I hunted moose two days, saw 7 moose: 3 cows, 1 calf, 1 mature bull and 2 immatures. I consider those to be a very good two days of moose hunting!

Usually ~30% of yearling bulls will have 2 pts or less on one side.

Down south it's probably a bit higher.

[jml11]

I can contribute a couple photos as well...

'08 2x3...Sept 20ish was alone but saw a 3x4 earlier in the day not too far away.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/jflex48/P9270016.jpg

A modified 'immy' I found later that year...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/jflex48/PB170046.jpg

NOT an IMMY!! Sept 23, 2006 LEH

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/jflex48/P9230133.jpg

[ROEBUCK]

so if 5% of moose are immies! and they say that 10% of moose are bulls,that meens 50% of bulls are immies!
In the 3 hunting seasons ive lived in bc
ive been on 3 moose kills all being immies ,the first was with a guy who taught me how to cow call in 7.28 in 2007 he shot it at 12.30pm
THE second was in pink mountain, in 20th aug 2008
my wife shot that one!
And i got my immie on the 1st oct last year it resonded to my cow calls, it really can be difficult to see the antler under the ears.and i believe this is the main reason for people not seeing immies mistaking them for cows

[todbartell]

so if 5% of moose are immies! and they say that 10% of moose are bulls,that meens 50% of bulls are immies!


where did you hear that?? I would think that the % would be closer to 25-35% but I am no biologist!!

[835]

would that be the lucky % or the unlucky % ?

[ratherbefishin]

looks like I'm heading up PG way early October, nice country-lots of grouse and moose-and to tell the truth-I'd be delighted with an immature,less work and they probably are better eating than a mature bull.My only problem is shrinking antlers-I call in a niice bull, count the points-and then have to watch them walk away...My only other option is go way north-its about a 30 hour drive to a GOS area

[ROEBUCK]

where did you hear that?? I would think that the % would be closer to 25-35% but I am no biologist!!
probably from the same source that you got 5% of moose are immies!

[835]

PG is nice. Last week of sept first of october is the best calling. but as for calling in an big bull... i love it, there is nothing like hearing them grunt and watching them sway there heads back and forth. the bad part is there looking at you! letting them walk is fine after you have said "bang"

[kyleklassen]

looks like I'm heading up PG way early October, nice country-lots of grouse and moose-and to tell the truth-I'd be delighted with an immature,less work and they probably are better eating than a mature bull.My only problem is shrinking antlers-I call in a niice bull, count the points-and then have to watch them walk away...My only other option is go way north-its about a 30 hour drive to a GOS areatheres closer seasons than 30 hr drive.

[ratherbefishin]

I'm looking for an ''ANY BULL''GOS area in October after the weather cools,I know there's a GOS for ANY BULL - ending september 15.Don't like flies,hornets or losing meat because its too warm-a real challenge when you have a long days drive ahead-I know too many guys who have shot a nice bull-only to lose it to spoilage

[coach]

www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/moose_2.jpeg

[GoatGuy]

looks like I'm heading up PG way early October, nice country-lots of grouse and moose-and to tell the truth-I'd be delighted with an immature,less work and they probably are better eating than a mature bull.My only problem is shrinking antlers-I call in a niice bull, count the points-and then have to watch them walk away...My only other option is go way north-its about a 30 hour drive to a GOS area

Not sure where you live but a 30 hour drive would put most of us well into the yukon. :biggrin:

[moosinaround]

Seen a spike/fork on my way home from work this morning. Right in city limits. Gonna be a beauty for the dinner plate this year! Moosin

[jml11]

I'm looking for an ''ANY BULL''GOS area in October after the weather cools,I know there's a GOS for ANY BULL - ending september 15.Don't like flies,hornets or losing meat because its too warm-a real challenge when you have a long days drive ahead-I know too many guys who have shot a nice bull-only to lose it to spoilage


What any bull season ends Sept 15th??? I don't think such a season exits anywhere in the province. Region 7b Any bull ends Aug 31.

Region 6 has generous any bull moose seasons from Aug throug to november, most are in the northern part of the region but there is a week long any bull season in the southern portion from Oct 20-26 every year. Parts of 6-1, 6-4, 6-5 and 6-6 can be accessed within a couple hour drive of PG so from vancouver you would be looking at no more than a 12 hour drive to get into those areas!

The 7B Any bull season in August can be accessed as close a 2 hours north of PG. Some die hards carry freezers and generators to cool the meat when hunting the early season up there.

[killman]

Seen a spike/fork on my way home from work this morning. Right in city limits. Gonna be a beauty for the dinner plate this year! Moosin

The only moose around here are the odd ones in town. Looks to me like out west would be the place with all the immies. I don't think I have ever seen one here. Only ever shot calves in region 7.

[Caveman]

where did you hear that?? I would think that the % would be closer to 25-35% but I am no biologist!!

Tod, you're on the right track. I was told years ago that 35% of the yearly bulls will be of the legal Spike/Fork description. the other 65% will already sport a 3X3 or bigger frame. This came from a biologist I spoke to. This being factored in along with predation, and poaching, based on past data, is what they use to determine timelines etc for the Spike/Fork season.

[ratherbefishin]

so...if only 35% of the yearling bulls are two points, and the idea was to harvest ''immature'' yearlings-then WHY is the designation two points instead of three points?How many misjudged ''legal'' two points were shot and left because the hunter came up on them and discovered a small extra point?Guys I talk to say the number of bulls shot and left is higher than the officials know-or admit.

I remain highly skeptical of the process-especially in areas where moose are plentiful-plus the fact that only half the hunters are in the field than were 30 years ago.I say if in areas where they do need to limit the harvest-make a GOS-but limit a hunter to one ''any bull'' every 2 or 3 year.

[swb]

I got one last year begining of october, he was by himself and answered to a cow call.

[Caveman]

The reasoning comes in that 65% of the bulls are not legal and will represent the breeding stock of the future. The other thought process they had was that a mature will bull will breed 6 or more cows and the yearlings might service one. So if the mature bulls are left to LEH, then a larger # of cows will be impregnated and therefore hopefully allow the population to grow. They do figure in illegally shot animals as well. I didn't mention that on purpose, so not to get into all that. They also estimated the increase in poaching in the early seasons to allow for error or illegalling taken animals.

[ratherbefishin]

again, my point is,why not INCREASE the of LEGAL harvest and by doing so DECREASE the number of poached or misidentifed animals-seems to me the system as it stands serves to limit the careful and legal hunters and allow the careless and illegal hunters to carry on.And-nobody has ever been able to answer my question-if we were able to sustain a GOS 30 province wide years ago,why can we NOT sustain a GOS with HALF the hunters in the field?I'd be happy with a draw every couple of years...has the moose herd declined that dramatically that we have to have these restrictions?and if the system we have is working-then why has the number of moose available for harvest NOT increased?

[Brett]

The only moose around here are the odd ones in town. Looks to me like out west would be the place with all the immies. I don't think I have ever seen one here. Only ever shot calves in region 7. Yup, never seen any moose around here

[Fisher-Dude]

again, my point is,why not INCREASE the of LEGAL harvest and by doing so DECREASE the number of poached or misidentifed animals-seems to me the system as it stands serves to limit the careful and legal hunters and allow the careless and illegal hunters to carry on.And-nobody has ever been able to answer my question-if we were able to sustain a GOS 30 province wide years ago,why can we NOT sustain a GOS with HALF the hunters in the field?I'd be happy with a draw every couple of years...has the moose herd declined that dramatically that we have to have these restrictions?and if the system we have is working-then why has the number of moose available for harvest NOT increased?

I would agree with you that moose are far too restricted in this province. They are truely an under-utilized resource. Many decades of GOS any bull in BC with twice the hunters is proof that the resource can handle removal of restrictions in pretty much all areas. However, it looks like we are stuck with spike/fork and the like, since many hunters would rather see a moose that they can't shoot instead of having moose roast on the table.

Antler restrictions are not set with poachers in mind. The unethical hunters will shoot a 4 point if we change to a 3 point season, and so on. We set laws to keep the majority in line, and not to accomodate the minority who are careless or unethical.

[GoatGuy]

.And-nobody has ever been able to answer my question-if we were able to sustain a GOS 30 province wide years ago,why can we NOT sustain a GOS with HALF the hunters in the field?



politics, access, politics, FN harvest, politics, predation, politics, fire suppression, politics, nimby hunters, politics, changes in moose management, politics, lack of predator control, politics, LEH, politics,


oh did I mention politics? :roll:

[hunter1947]

Yes the immatures do hang out with there mother in the second year of there life ,you have a good chance at filling your tag.

A few years ago we took a fork bull that was still with his mother ,she was not a very happy mother after my partner took him from her.

[ratherbefishin]

I just wonder if some of these regulations come as a result of a lot of university theories rather than in the field observation.It seems to me that if we had a province wide GOS for moose ,then the hunting pressure would be spread out,rather than concentrating it on certain areas,with people coming from near and far homing in on a small area,which inevitably results in over harvest-and justifys more restrictions

Given that hunting is only one of a number of factor[winter kill,predation,native harvest, road and rail kill, in moose populations, I also question whether restricting the hunt they way they do[immatures] has much impact on the overall numbers.Its a great theory on paper-but I've yet to see proof its increasing the harvestable numbers of moose.

[6616]

I just wonder if some of these regulations come as a result of a lot of university theories rather than in the field observation.It seems to me that if we had a province wide GOS for moose ,then the hunting pressure would be spread out,rather than concentrating it on certain areas,with people coming from near and far homing in on a small area,which inevitably results in over harvest-and justifys more restrictions

Given that hunting is only one of a number of factor[winter kill,predation,native harvest, road and rail kill, in moose populations, I also question whether restricting the hunt they way they do[immatures] has much impact on the overall numbers.Its a great theory on paper-but I've yet to see proof its increasing the harvestable numbers of moose.

I don't think it's university theories. I believe it's an overly conservative management approach and attitude on the part of both managers, rod and gun clubs, and many hunters. We went through recovery periods for many species over the last couple of decades and it's just hard to shake that recovery management mentality. Also inventory data is weak so managers want to err on the side of caution and keep seasons conservative or on LEH. Just the though of GOS sends fear coursing through their veins..!

It's really not just as simple as there were 178,000 hunters and GOS thirty years ago and only 90,000 hunters today. There is much more backcountry road access, we have better equipmemt (quads and better trucks, etc), there are higher non-hunting losses (predators and road/railway kill). The railway kill along the CN main line west of PG is truely staggering.

I'm not saying a province wide GOS is unsustainable, it is because the season length could always be adjusted to meet harvest objectives. The number of LEH hunters in many areas is only 20% of the number that hunted moose when it was on GOS, so it's possible a GOS might have to be only 20 to 25% as long as the current LEH seasons....???? Shorter seasons usually mean higher concentrations of hunters. I'd sure like to see it given a try anyway.

I believe the immy seasons serve a purpose. They provide a sustainable GOS opportunity at least. Biologists assure us they are sustainable seasons even though the opponents of such seasons will always use the excuse that they're not, but very few of those people are biologists.

Not sure what you mean about increasing harvestable moose numbers? Immy seasons certainly increase the overall harvest because without them we'd only have the LEH harvest, so the total harvest is increased by the number of immys shot. Immy seasons cannot and will not increase overall moose population numbers nor are they intended to do that.

[ratherbefishin]

every moose hunter I've talked to tells me of seeing ''immature'' moose left to rot because they turned out to have an extra point...and if the current management system is working-then that should translate into more harvestable moose.I know one thing-drawing a LEH tag about every 5 years and with only 50% success,I've only reduced the moose population by one bull in 15 years....
and if the road /rail kill is ''truely staggering''-then why hasn't the number of LEH been INCREASED to reduce the numbers in that area?

[GoatGuy]

every moose hunter I've talked to tells me of seeing ''immature'' moose left to rot because they turned out to have an extra point...and if the current management system is working-then that should translate into more harvestable moose.I know one thing-drawing a LEH tag about every 5 years and with only 50% success,I've only reduced the moose population by one bull in 15 years....
and if the road /rail kill is ''truely staggering''-then why hasn't the number of LEH been INCREASED to reduce the numbers in that area?

it isn't just moose. there are 3 pt mules and 5 point bull elk, 9 pt moose, 5 pt bull elk, less than full curl rams shot and left every year. There are also does misidentified as bucks every year. It's a fact of life.

[jml11]

it isn't just moose. there are 3 pt mules and 5 point bull elk, 9 pt moose, 5 pt bull elk, less than full curl rams shot and left every year. There are also does misidentified as bucks every year. It's a fact of life.

It goes for any antler restrictions really and is all considered in game management. It is very unfortunate to see when you come across a left animal. I imagine there will be some incorrectly identified caribou shot and left along the alaska highway now that they have rid of the early any bull season and gone to a 5 point restriction.

I am still baffled by a 6x4 bull elk I found in the middle of a wide open cutblock, 50 yards off a road a few years back. It would have been hard for a hunter to have lost this elk but I found it early november about 3 weeks after the 6 point season had closed and it was not very degraded yet (maybe a week to ten days old). My only thoughts are that it was either purposely poached, but why leave it? or someone actually thought it was deer....and realized their mistake once they got up to it! I know it sounds far fetched but people do mistake species as well...which is sad to say the least.

[bighornbob]

It goes for any antler restrictions really and is all considered in game management. It is very unfortunate to see when you come across a left animal. I imagine there will be some incorrectly identified caribou shot and left along the alaska highway now that they have rid of the early any bull season and gone to a 5 point restriction.

I am still baffled by a 6x4 bull elk I found in the middle of a wide open cutblock, 50 yards off a road a few years back. It would have been hard for a hunter to have lost this elk but I found it early november about 3 weeks after the 6 point season had closed and it was not very degraded yet (maybe a week to ten days old). My only thoughts are that it was either purposely poached, but why leave it? or someone actually thought it was deer....and realized their mistake once they got up to it! I know it sounds far fetched but people do mistake species as well...which is sad to say the least.

Or they shot first and then read the regs and saw elk had closed a few days earlier.

[6616]

every moose hunter I've talked to tells me of seeing ''immature'' moose left to rot because they turned out to have an extra point...and if the current management system is working-then that should translate into more harvestable moose.I know one thing-drawing a LEH tag about every 5 years and with only 50% success,I've only reduced the moose population by one bull in 15 years....
and if the road /rail kill is ''truely staggering''-then why hasn't the number of LEH been INCREASED to reduce the numbers in that area?

I believe they're actually "decreasing" the number of LEH permits to account for the losses on the railroad. It's not a matter of too many moose, it's a situation where deep snow encourages them to use the RR line for movement and the difficulty of getting out of the way when a train comes. Maybe CNR should seriously assume some of the responsibility for this and attempt some preventative strategies.

[ratherbefishin]

didn't they have a similar probeem between west bank and penticton with the whitetails being killed on the highway?-same with the Coquihala.I think they fenced it-maybe that is a solution to consider.

But it bothers me to think that I pass on an animal because I'm not 100% certain its legal and some other guy shoots it-and then checks ,but that dead animal counts in terms of allowable harvest for next year

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

so...if only 35% of the yearling bulls are two points, and the idea was to harvest ''immature'' yearlings-then WHY is the designation two points instead of three points?How many misjudged ''legal'' two points were shot and left because the hunter came up on them and discovered a small extra point?Guys I talk to say the number of bulls shot and left is higher than the officials know-or admit.

I remain highly skeptical of the process-especially in areas where moose are plentiful-plus the fact that only half the hunters are in the field than were 30 years ago.I say if in areas where they do need to limit the harvest-make a GOS-but limit a hunter to one ''any bull'' every 2 or 3 year.
They know and that's why there is thought's of closing the immy season in reg. 3.Too many guys are shooting bull's with wrong antler configuration , Also mature bulls with broken antlers are being harvested ,What we have may not be the best but at least we still have a chance to get out and hunt moose. Please everyone take the time to look or we well lose what little we have

[ratherbefishin]

so-what I would like to know is do we really have drastically reduced numbers of moose today as opposed to 30 years ago that we need all these restrictions?Has anybody got any accurate statistics?

[elkdom]

so-what I would like to know is do we really have drastically reduced numbers of moose today as opposed to 30 years ago that we need all these restrictions?Has anybody got any accurate statistics?

as for harvest stats I cant say , as for open seasons not so very long ago the BC bag limit for moose was 2 per year, and a very long ANY BULL GOS,and a GOS for cows or calves,,

as for black bears not so long ago, it was 5 per year,a very long GOS, spring and fall,,, and no requirements about bear meat retrieval,,,

also 90 years ago a moose sighting south of Prince George was rare! but with logging opening up more areas, and regrowth being what moose thrive on, they proliferated the Province, with little, if any encouragement from the MOE, moose populations thrived basically all over the province,,

now still today it is not unusual to see 25/30 moose in one day in region 7B just driving looking over cut blocks and willow swamps, but that is NOT in Aug or September, many years ago with liberal GOS moose seasons many closing dates were in January and most seasons for moose didnt start until Mid Sept or late Sept, also many GOS seasons started in November and ended in Dec,,,

[bowhunterbruce]

i have harvested 6 immys over the years and everyone of them was either with a cow or a bigger bull.it has been my experience that moose love each others company and when they are young i believe they stay with each other to learn how to be more like the big guys.
immys are not all that far off the tit so to speak and every immy ive have gotten responded in some way to long drawn out cow calling.some came in right away while other lingered in the back ground waiting and watching.a slow approach towards them while staying out of sight and maintaining a cow like demeanor is what worked on the 2 that hung up.i might add that not one of those lil guys responded back by grunting at all they all came with an air of caution and following either mom or mr.big.
they know thier place and a big bull isnt threatned by an immature nor will an immature get in the way of a cow who is looking for a lil once a year nookie.
all ya can do is go to likely locations and start talking like a sexy ol cow looking for a lil nookie.
goodluck
bruce

[GoatGuy]

They know and that's why there is thought's of closing the immy season in reg. 3.Too many guys are shooting bull's with wrong antler configuration , Also mature bulls with broken antlers are being harvested ,What we have may not be the best but at least we still have a chance to get out and hunt moose. Please everyone take the time to look or we well lose what little we have

There are no thoughts of closing the immy season in Reg 3.

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

There are no thoughts of closing the immy season in Reg 3.
The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different

[bighornbob]

The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different

I had a CO in vernon use a flexible steel hand saw to try and tell if my bighorn was legal instead of the horn jig (what the government uses) that was three feet away.

Just becuase he is CO does not mean he knows what is going on behind the scenes in regards to wildlife management.

BHB

[elkdom]

I had a CO in vernon use a flexible steel hand saw to try and tell if my bighorn was legal instead of the horn jig (what the government uses) that was three feet away.

Just becuase he is CO does not mean he knows what is going on behind the scenes in regards to wildlife management.

BHB

lol, not all CO's are created "equal" , and even less are accredited BIO's :roll:

[ROEBUCK]

The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different
the co,s are there to enforce the laws not change them!
in my experiance with speaking to co,s quite a few of them would put a stop to resident hunting(if they had the power)quicker than the antis!
at the range the other day, I was speaking to a young c/o and he was telling me how he hopes that they end the grizzly bear hunt. he was from victoria but working in vanderhoof for the summer.
In my opinion I believe the police dont want us to have guns and i believe that some c/o,s would like to see the end of the hunt!

[jml11]

The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different

Vernon is in Region 8 not 3....

[GoatGuy]

The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different

That's great - there's no discussion about changing the regulations in region 3. The moose are doing well there.

Does he also bring in the grizzlies that are misidentified as black bears, the 3 pts identified as 4 pts, does identified as bucks, 5 pts bull elk identified as 6 pts.

Are there plans to close those seasons as well?

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

I love all the self apionted experts on this site . gives a guy something to laugh at . Have a great day!

[jml11]

I love all the self apionted experts on this site . gives a guy something to laugh at . Have a great day!

How do you know some of us aren't experts :biggrin:. You don't know anyone's background or even where they work. There are many biologists, MoE included, that post on this site! There are even members tied to the BCWF who are involved in negotiations with the Ministry on regulation changes,so they will have the best information available...better information than most CO's in BC!

[jml11]

That's great - there's no discussion about changing the regulations in region 3. The moose are doing well there.

Does he also bring in the grizzlies that are misidentified as black bears, the 3 pts identified as 4 pts, does identified as bucks, 5 pts bull elk identified as 6 pts.

Are there plans to close those seasons as well?

A buddy of mine emailed me in a panic earlier this year that he had heard the spike-fork season in Region 7a was going to be culled this year because of too many illegal bulls shot. I thought that was the funniest thing I heard all year and told him not to worry, we have plenty of moose. Funny how rumours develop out of context.

[Fisher-Dude]

The C.O out of vernon is a member of our rod and gun club. Every year he bring's in antler's and skulls from confiscated kill's to show the problem is real. He would say different

Interesting. I know those guys. They are hunters first and foremost, and I've spent time with them looking to increase hunter opportunity, not shut it down. I think you've perhaps jumped to the wrong conclusion from their efforts to educate you on what's legal and what's not.

I get firsthand information on illegal kills in the Central Okanagan, and it's a very small proportion of the legal harvest.

[Rob]

I would think the Bios would take into account the # of Moose which are shot by accident. And all of the numbers are inaccurate anyway, because they dont get any stats from the first nations. Man, I cant believe a CO is hoping they shut down the Grizz hunt, I wonder what his reason is?

[Rob]

One other thing, is it true the fn's were responsible for closing down the immy season in reg5? (not trying to highjack here)

[ratherbefishin]

''I get firsthand information on illegal kills''-true-but thats just the REPORTED illegal kills-how many ''unreported'' illegal kills are there?Almost EVERY moose hunter speaks of seeing moose left to rot.Did they report them?-probably not...

frankly,this reminds me of the spring salmon tagging some yeas ago-a great idea that took a lot of time enforcing-but did nothing in terms of conservation.I narrowly escaped conviction when the CO picked up my tagged salmon and the tag came undone....

[308Lover]

What's an "immature" ?

[elkdom]

What's an "immature" ?

Immature bull moose, Identified by less than 3 points on one side of antlers or (spike fork bull) indicating the bull moose is an "immature Bull" ,,, usually 2 years old or less, but bearing visible bony antlers,,, not nubs as found on calves,

[Fisher-Dude]

Immature bull moose, Identified by less than 3 points on one side of antlers or (spike fork bull) indicating the bull moose is an "immature Bull" ,,, usually 2 years old or less, but bearing visible bony antlers,,, not nubs as found on calves,

Nope. There's no such definition as an immy. It's a "spike/fork" bull. He can shoot the goo 10 feet and have a 60" rack and still meet the definition.


''I get firsthand information on illegal kills''-true-but thats just the REPORTED illegal kills-how many ''unreported'' illegal kills are there?Almost EVERY moose hunter speaks of seeing moose left to rot.Did they report them?-probably not...


Why didn't they report them? Do you have stats on the number of hunters that found illegal kills and didn't report them? Probably not - you're hypothesizing. We actually find that the same moose get reported multiple times to the CO Service, so I think one can surmise that reporting by the public is quite good.

How many break a leg in a gopher hole and die? How many get taken down by predators? How many get taken by FNs? How many die of disease? How many die of wounding? The number that counts is the post-rut bull:cow ratio, and right now across region 8 that is at 30:100, which is the provincial target. It would appear that the season and "all those illegal kills" :roll: is allowing the moose population to meet the conservation standards that game managers have set with no problems.

What a bizarre twist this thread has taken - the OP started off looking for advice on how to hunt and kill a spike/fork, now he says S/F seasons are bad because there are "so many" illegal kills. :-?

[Fisher-Dude]

One other thing, is it true the fn's were responsible for closing down the immy season in reg5? (not trying to highjack here)

Yes.

Highjacks aren't allowed on HBC. Gatehouse says so.

[elkdom]

Yes.

Highjacks aren't allowed on HBC. Gatehouse says so.

that must be the same Region 5 where during the 1970's, I personally observed many times driving Hwy 24 between Hwy 97 and Little Fort, signs made on 4x8 sheets of plywood "mooze meat 4 sale",,,

that also must be the same region 5 during the 1970's when I would drive to Bella Coola from Williams Lake the same type of 4x8 plywood signs, "Mooze meat 4 sale",,,

now there is next to nothing for moose hunting authorizations, funny how that works!

OH! I musn't forget to say! Hi! Jack! good day! Jack!:shock:

[Fisher-Dude]

that must be the same Region 5 where during the 1970's, I personally observed many times driving Hwy 24 between Hwy 97 and Little Fort, signs made on 4x8 sheets of plywood "mooze meat 4 sale",,,

that also must be the same region 5 during the 1970's when I would drive to Bella Coola from Williams Lake the same type of 4x8 plywood signs, "Mooze meat 4 sale",,,

now there is next to nothing for moose hunting authorizations, funny how that works!

OH! I musn't forget to say! Hi! Jack! good day! Jack!:shock:

Quit living in the past elkdum! Those 4x8 plywood signs are long gone.









They are now 1220mmx2440mm, and made from OSB.




:biggrin:

[elkdom]

[quote=Fisher-Dude;492411]Quit living in the past elkdum! Those 4x8 plywood signs are long gone.









They are now 1220mmx2440mm, and made from OSB.



ahhhh! Metric Moose! much clearer now! lmao:biggrin:
thanks for the pointers "fisher duddd" :???:

[martyonthewater]

What a bizarre twist this thread has taken - the OP started off looking for advice on how to hunt and kill a spike/fork, now he says S/F seasons are bad because there are "so many" illegal kills. :-?

Hallelujah, brother. or should I say Dude? whatever. Anyhow, a few years back I was lucky enough to tag out on an immy in the princeton area:eek:, he was running with another immy at the time. Last year , the day before we got to our area, an illegal (3 point by a hair) was shot at the end of legal shooting light the day before we arrived at camp, he was running with a cow and calf . For those concerned, the shooter himself called in a CO who checked to insure the hunter had cancelled his tag then unceremoniously carted the beast off to wherever they take them.

[elkdom]

Hallelujah, brother. or should I say Dude? whatever. Anyhow, a few years back I was lucky enough to tag out on an immy in the princeton area:eek:, he was running with another immy at the time. Last year , the day before we got to our area, an illegal (3 point by a hair) was shot at the end of legal shooting light the day before we arrived at camp, he was running with a cow and calf . For those concerned, the shooter himself called in a CO who checked to insure the hunter had cancelled his tag then unceremoniously carted the beast off to wherever they take them.

that clears it up then!, the CO's are eating the "immies" :neutral:

[835]

wow this thread has gone on every aspect of the whole immie thing here it is "immies are a moose, they are small and hard to get cuz there isn't many of them in a percentile coparison as any other moose some times they are seen with cows and some times not. But we chase them that was the original point this percentile thing is alot of luck i dont care how skilled you think you are "