Game Over ... B.C. Wild Salmon Lost

[JAFA]

Here's the latest cut to BC's salmon route jugular.

TheTyee.ca
Alexandra Morton has spent over 20 years studying whales and salmon on the B.C. coast. That led her, inevitably, into conflicts about the fish farming industry. She has argued, on the evidence of her own research and others’, that farming Atlantic salmon is destroying B.C.’s native wild salmon.

After a vote taken last week by the Strathcona Regional District, it looked as if Morton and the supporters of wild salmon had sustained their worst defeat yet.

Morton isn't giving up -- but she is demanding that British Columbians take serious action if they really do want to save the salmon.

Last weekend Morton sent a letter to members of several newsgroups, setting out the problem. Excerpts from that letter:

"On June 25, 2009, the Strathcona Regional District rural directors opened the door to fish farming on the jugular of the B.C. coast. Every other fish farm has been sited among braided waterways, but this Grieg application is for one of the biggest fish farms on the B.C. coast to be lodged where 1/3 of all Canada's Pacific salmon pass on their voyage back to us through Johnstone Strait.

"Sensing some public opposition to this decision, the board did consider the risks and asked Grieg to compromise. But the concessions Grieg responded with are worthless tradebeads of deception as they are either impossible or irrelevant.

"The media reports they offer to harvest their fish before the wild salmon migrations, but they know their fish need to be in our ocean for 22 months and ours migrate every 12 months. They say they will have zero lice, but they know this is impossible with the drugs we allow in Canada. And they say they will turn off their growlights in the spring, when they never use them anyway.
"I know the fish farmers and I know the governments; in fact, they are often the same people. And most of all I know the fish...

'Wild salmon are failing'

"A Norwegian corporation has become gatekeeper to the Fraser, East Vancouver Island, and south coast Mainland rivers, and our fish are their market competitors.

"I have tried to bring reason to the B.C. fish farming industry for 21 years. My community has been lost. The science is done. The courts ruled the way it has been regulated is unconstitutional. The people of the B.C. coast are aware of the issue now.

"Wild salmon are failing and sea lice, diseases, and massive schools of salmon predators parked in pens every few km along their migration routes are clearly not helping. Anyone who looks can see that.

"And yet every level of government from federal to regional favours farm salmon over wild salmon. Since this is a democracy, I have to assume at this point that B.C. has made its choice.

'I have no right'

"There are many places on this coast that government could play with this risky business, so when I see one of the biggest farm applications ever, being handed B.C.'s primary wild salmon artery by the most local, on-the-ground level of government, I have to think, 'This is OK with B.C. This is what B.C. wants.'

"The next day I watched farm smolts pour through a hose from a truck. I could see the Atlantic salmon in the translucent tube swimming above black pavement falling into the farm boat and I thought, 'This is what B.C. has chosen.'

"I thought about cool forest rivers, and what the first salmon of this coast looked like as they enter the sea. Feeding trout, birds, then whales, my children, you, and the trees that make us oxygen and stabilize our climate.

"...I have no right to tell B.C. one salmon is better than the other. You have clearly made the choice.

"So British Columbia, here is what I am going to do.

"I can't sustain this effort against every level of government because no matter how thin the veneer of democracy, you did vote for them, you had the choice and you picked the people who are giving our coast to the Norwegian salmon 'farmers.'

'British Columbia, over to you'

"If you want wild salmon in British Columbia, you will need to roar all the way from Campbell River to Parliament Hill in Ottawa, because only you have the power to turn this around and let the wild lifeblood of this coast survive.

"If I can hear you, I will meet you wherever you take a stand, but until then, good luck in your decision. British Columbia, it is over to you.

Alexandra Morton Adopt a Fry"

'Only the public can turn this around'

Interviewed by The Tyee, Morton speculated that the Strathcona Regional District wanted to compromise, "because if they said no, they'd be overridden by the province."

She also emphasized that "Only the public can turn this around. The province won't care for four years, but the feds may have to listen to us."

Reflecting on the recent provincial election, Morton saw one silver lining: "People can't just write a cheque to some environmental organization and forget about it. They have to take personal action."

The Strathcona Regional District's website contains detailed files containing submissions on 'Bylaw No. 29,' as well as the minutes of the June 25 meeting, which includes numerous last-minute submissions.

In addition to Adopt-a-Fry, Alexandra Morton posts on Calling from the Coast.com, a video blog.


http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/06/30/MortonsCry/ (http://thetyee.ca/News/2009/06/30/MortonsCry/)

[ElkMasterC]

Every fisherman and woman in BC owes Alex a humble thanks. She's been waging this battle virtually alone, and under-funded for years, trying to protect our heritage. She's even been fined for studying lice infested smolts and fry by Fisheries. Our Gov't (The Gorgon) has sold us out.
It's time we all contacted out MLA's and told them no more open-water fish farms.
Like Alex said, "the Science is in" ...and it's time for them to be out.

[Plincker]

I was recently in Ketchikan AK. and did a tour of their fish hatchery. Their returns hardly fluctuate at all and the only see lice they find is apparently from salmon that have swam by fish farms in BC. These salmon actually have a chance against lice because their scales are fully formed unlike fry salmon who basicly get slowly eat'n alive. I asked the first nations guide why they don't have fish farms and he said "we did, but we chased them out of town a long time ago". How they did that I don't know, but it's too bad we didn't.

It's pretty sad that the goverment isn't taking this huge probleme as seriously as they should.

[cariboobill]

great thread to get people's view, even if it may be based on a believe and not facts. Does more harm to promote and give support to a cause where the reason for the decline is unknown. Better to find a real problem and fix it. Fish Farming is only one issue facing our wild salmon stocks. Government is the biggest problem.

[30.06 Hunter]

http://www.newsdata.com/fishletter/263/2story.html

http://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=6-2009&day=23&id=32830&l=e&country=&special=&ndb=1&df=0

The people of this province have vast experience with the rantings of anti's. Anti hunting, anti logging, anti mining, anti run of river anti etc.... When it comes to the apocalyptic rantings spouted by the anti's, the people of this province are smart of enough to take these with several very large grains of salt. When the people of this province voted salmon farmer was a very tiny issue for 99% of the voters. As I said before people are smart enough to look at the proper science being done and form an opinion and that opinion has obviously greatly distressed Morton who see's her gravy train evaporating.
If people want to help wild salmon in BC maybe they should spend money on real problems affecting salmon such as pollution, the Fraser comes to mind, restoring lost habitat, understanding the problems of open ocean survival and how climate change is affecting ocean currents and productivity.

One last web site for you. Patrick Moore who founded Greenpeace and later left them. A person who knows how these people work. Under the issues section is a piece about sea lice. Enjoy.

http://www.greenspirit.com/home.cfm

[30.06 Hunter]

Hmmm edits not working for me right now so please ignore spelling errors in previous post.

And I have another link you should peruse with regards to sea lice.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/322/5909/1790b

[ElkMasterC]

great thread to get people's view, even if it may be based on a believe and not facts. Does more harm to promote and give support to a cause where the reason for the decline is unknown. Better to find a real problem and fix it. Fish Farming is only one issue facing our wild salmon stocks. Government is the biggest problem.

A REAL problem??????????

Let the Congregation say: WTF?

How is this based on a belief, and not facts? Is the Gov't sucking the lifeblood out of smolts?
Have you read up on it???
Put a ****ing fork in this issue....it's done.
The Jury's gone home
The only ones that don't acknowledge the facts are the Fish farmers and the Gorgon.

[ElkMasterC]

Oh, and here's a little blurb by some local rag.
I think they're called "National Geographic", but I'm sure they NEVER check their facts at all.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071213-salmon-lice.html

And 30.06...gravy train? Gravy ****ing train?
You should really read up on this incredible woman, cuz you obviously are woefully and deliberately uninformed about this, and you should really do a little reading before you make vague, sweeping condemnations of a person you owe a debt of gratitude to.
You should be shining her shoes with your fishing license.

[DBM]

I spent 6 months on the farms on the West Coast of the Island where the lice weren't a problem but protesters were an ongoing concern. What I did learn out there is that if there wasn't money to be made these professional protesters would be onto something else. Mark my words, if and when the salmon farming protesting has ended they'll go onto something else - probably hunting.

On the west coast, members of the local FN band cut open some nets to protest a salmon farm sitting on traditional shellfish grounds (in 60 feet of water?), after a few years - whatta know, to end the trouble they gave that band part ownership of that company. The protests stopped, did they sell out, or were the protests done with the hopes they'd get a piece of the pie? What does Morton do for a living, where does she get the money to pay her bills? Does she benefit financially by protesting salmon farms? I honestly don't know, since elkmasterC seems to worship the ground she walks on maybe he can enlighten me. I'm not necessarily on here side but if she doesn't benefit financially then I say good on her for sticking up for what she believes in.

[Gateholio]

Oh, and here's a little blurb by some local rag.
I think they're called "National Geographic", but I'm sure they NEVER check their facts at all.
.

I didn't read the article, but I have been told a number of times that National Geographic is one of the most fastidious fact checking publications in existence.

[spreerider]

That article by National geographic is just an article based on one study that was not followed up by a peer review before the short article that picked and chose what to include as to make an article that would sell to the magazine editor.
All that you read should be taken with a grain of salt especially a two page review on a study that is not even linked to, all the sources are personal pages by the studies authors, not to the actual study cited.

If you have done so much reading, did you read the articles posted by 30.06 some of them showed a direct opposition the the results of the studies you are using, Pink salmon numbers peaked in 2000 22 years after the start of salmon farming started in the brougham in 1988. The studies you have been reading use 2000 as their baseline for where salmon stocks should be not as a historical freak maximum. This inflates any future lower years to seem a lot lower than they should and that something is wrong but really it could be a normal effect of the sinusoidal function of population growth and decline.

[PGK]

Food for fodder:

Would you have the aquaculture industry tank and put more commercial pressure on wild stocks to meet demand? I wouldn't...

The number one sign of poor science is when the scientist takes his or her findings to the media before they take them to the peer review process. I am skeptical of her work, and still unsure about where to stand on aquaculture.

The industry can work, but it nees a major overhaul. The rules need to be changed to protect wild fish, and the rules need to be enforced. Right now, this can't be done as the BC Supreme Court put the ball in DFO's court. DFO now makes the rules and administers the rulebook. Fox guarding henhouse? I think so.

Give control of policing back to the province, and hold their feet to the fire on making new rules about species, genetic enhancement and steroid use. Consider forcing them into land based containers. Make them accountable.

[Phreddy]

http://www.newsdata.com/fishletter/263/2story.html

http://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=6-2009&day=23&id=32830&l=e&country=&special=&ndb=1&df=0

When the people of this province voted salmon farmer was a very tiny issue for 99% of the voters. As I said before people are smart enough to look at the proper science being done and form an opinion and that opinion has obviously greatly distressed Morton who see's her gravy train evaporating.
If people want to help wild salmon in BC maybe they should spend money on real problems affecting salmon such as pollution, the Fraser comes to mind, restoring lost habitat, understanding the problems of open ocean survival and how climate change is affecting ocean currents and productivity.

One last web site for you.

http://www.greenspirit.com/home.cfm

I tend to agree with you 30:06. When I was a guide in Campbell River years ago, the Guides Ass'n often worried about and pointed out their concerns about the herring roe fishery. You can enhance all the streams and build all the hatcheries you want, but if there isn't sufficient food (read herring) for them to eat, they will just die.
No matter what anyone tries to tell me, real fish don't eat pellets.

[ElkMasterC]

This one:

http://www.newsdata.com/fishletter/263/2story.html deals with fish returns improving due to a believed lowering of ocean temps, and subsequent better #'s of zoo and phytoplankton. Also attributes poor Sockeye runs to warming waters in spawning streams. OK. Don't know where you're going with that, unless it's to say "We had some good runs, so that means fish farms aren't a problem" Not even gonna go there, so forget it.
That website deals mostly with WA and ID runs, and yet, from this site:
http://www.foodandsocietyfellows.org/publications.cfm?refID=88244

"Several coastal states have passed resolutions opposing production of genetically engineered fish and ocean aquaculture. Yet in Washington state, proponents are working quietly to allow farms off our shores."

Does WA not have net pens off it's shores? I did not know that. Good salmon returns though. Good on 'em.

_________


That last link (http://www.greenspirit.com/home.cfm ) points to another study commissioned byyyy...... you guessed it:

A report commissioned by Positive Aquaculture Awareness

(Paid for by Psssssst: salmon farms.....don't tell anyone)


Please tell me you're joking with this one:




http://fis.com/fis/worldnews/worldnews.asp?monthyear=6-2009&day=23&id=32830&l=e&country=&special=&ndb=1&df=0





"Overview




FIS, the web site of Fish Information & Services, is widely recognized as the standard for global seafood industry information on the Internet.

Founded in 1995 by professionals deeply engaged in the seafood industry, the site delivers the most reliable, timely, comprehensive worldwide fishing, seafood, and aquaculture information and we do it daily in three languages: Japanese, English and Spanish."

You're joking, right?



I admire your choice of calibres, 30.06, but when being fed what you wanna hear, ask where it's coming from, and why.
I don't eat farmed fish, and never will.

Here's a good read, quite informative.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.cd1fcfd7be77ad1416b91df5a215bab 1.481&show_article=1

It doesn't particularly prove anyone's point, but it's something I found when I was looking up your links, '06.
Good discussion though, I'm learning a lot.
Cheers
EMC

[spreerider]

I admire your choice of calibres, ElkmasterC, but when being fed what you wanna hear, ask where it's coming from, and why.

[ElkMasterC]

Food for fodder:

Would you have the aquaculture industry tank and put more commercial pressure on wild stocks to meet demand? I wouldn't...
.......

Consider forcing them into land based containers. Make them accountable.

PGK: read that last link I posted above about what it takes to feed these fish in pens.
And I agree with your last statement, they're gonna have to go fully enclosed if they want to control their biggest problems.
Personally, I don't care, I don't eat these drug-laced fish, so whatever.

[ElkMasterC]

I admire your choice of calibres, ElkmasterC, but when being fed what you wanna hear, ask where it's coming from, and why.


OK, so if the Fox tells you that he ain't eatin' no chickens, you just believe him? lol (Oh, and get your own witty barbs, I just used that one) ;-)
The Fish farming Industry commissions studies to tell the public that the Fish Farming Industry isn't bad. Hmmmm.
I'll try and find a link to Alex Morton's Documentary, and you watch it and tell me where the Big Money is.

[30.06 Hunter]

Glad I can be of assistance in your education Elk.

The following link is a power point presentation so it is a bit difficult to follow the points but it has some very interesting information on fish meal and usage by various agricultural sectors.

http://www.cnr.uidaho.edu/fish510/PDF/fish%20meal%20lecture.pdf

And if you want even more fish meal entertainment try this one. The feeding fishmeal segment is very interesting.

http://www.gafta.com/fin/index.php?pge_id=1

A good take on the nutritional benefits of salmon.

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/arts_life/story.html?id=b5676764-cff9-4c89-8526-05ece8c25694

Smoked farmed Atlantic salmon is about the best there is. Candy smoked yummy. An old Norwegian fella did some cold smoked for me that was unreal good.

[ElkMasterC]

"Glad I can be of assistance in your education Elk. "

LOL, don't flatter yourself, '06. You're pretty cocky for a noob, as well. :rolleyes:
But there's nothing like a debate to make you research your position, and hopefully, re-validate your convictions. And sometimes, if you're open-minded enough, you'll actually change your view.
A new paradigm shift, as it were.
Not this time though. It's just reinforced what I believe.
Not much is to be learned from Industry lackeys, as your bogus links have shown.

"...farmed Atlantic salmon is about the best there is....."


What IS your involvement anyway?
And be honest. You obviously have a vested interest in farmed salmon, so out with it.

[THE SWEDE]

The goverment wants every last wild salmon dead..It'll be easier for them to put a dam on every river and stream.Selling fish or power?What makes the most sence to money hungry shit bags???.Its sad that the little guys voice is no longer heard.

[betteroffishing]

too many millitant anti everything groups shouting out too much bs and rhettoric. its deafening and numbing. in this new info age where everyone is an expert and the lawers are the final editor of any true revelation . i find myself completely unconected and unable to define my impression of the subject . i wonder what the indians thaught when the first european cattle ranchers started penning thousands of head of cattle on their fenced land , burning their marks onto their hides and injecting them with different medicines. clearly this cant be good for the buffalo some of them must have said. yes , but look at how many people that acre of land will feed said some others. same debate , different time. so tell us all emc , how do you like your steak??

[ElkMasterC]

Well tell me something BetterOff.........

Imagine that these cattle ranches (to use your example) were put into migration corridors for wild ungulates, let's say Wild Cattle (Work with me here...I need the parallel). Now let's say that these penned cattle were pumped full of antibiotics and anti-tick and lice medicine, jammed into pens that encouraged transfers of parasites and diseases, and the meat was colourless, flavourless and paled in comparison to the organic anyway. In fact the meat is so bland that it had to be made visually appealing to the consumer by using food dyes in the feed to turn it from reddish-gray to a deep red just so they could sell it.
Now lets say that these cattle, despite being over-medicated, were still infested with ticks and lice. Not naturally occurring ones anymore, but control-resistant ones. These parasites were passed on to the migrating Wild Cattle at least twice a year, to the point that some of the young were covered in parasites, and died as a result. Let's say that the penned cattle had diseases like Bacterial Kidney Disease (BKD) and Infectious
Hematopoietic Necrosis (IHN) that could be passed on to the wild ungulates. Let's say that some of the penned cattle escaped periodically, and competed with the wild animals for food, and ultimately, breeding room.
Would ya still buy this beef, BOffFishin'?
Would ya, huh? I would certainly hope not.

On a side-note: I'm lucky enough to get fed at work. We generally work 12-14 hrs a day in my job, so they throw in the food so we don't wander off...lol
At the start of any new show if Salmon comes up on the menu I always ask their Chef/Buyer if the fish is wild or farmed. Without one single exception, the answer is a variation of the following: "We serve only WILD salmon.........we don't buy that farmed shit." Throw in a little righteous indignation, and you get the idea.

And to answer your question, I eat organic meat, including some free-range beef from my friends ranch in the Cariboo, but mostly wild salmon, wild trout, and wild ungulates. Like Elk!

I'm really disappointed in some of the responses here. Especially from members with names that include the word: "FISHING".
You might want to ask yourself why our neighbour, Alaska, banned finfish farming entirely, if it's so harmless. Republican Governor to boot.
The problem with many people here is that the SECOND that anything smacks of an Environmental cause, it's automatically demonized.
Doesn't matter if it's a good idea for all of us, habitat-wise, conservation-wise, it's classed as "tree-hugger" and condemned outright.
A knee-jerk reaction that seldom seems well-researched.

WE have to start looking beyond the end of our fishin' poles, or one day we'll have nothing to cast to.
WE have to start looking beyond the end of our rifles, or one day we're gonna have nothing to shoot at.

[Devilbear]

...There are some kinds of ignorance, against which even the Gods, struggle in vain...

The awful truth of Heine's comment is never more obvious than when attempting to discuss environmental reality.

[steel_ram]

BC is one of the last remaining Salmon habitat's that allows a Krill fishery. No krill, no herring, no salmon. Yet another tree to bark up.

[30.06 Hunter]

And sometimes, if you're open-minded enough, you'll actually change your view.


Yes you do have to be open minded,you are obviously not, oh well we can't all be perfect.


"Now let's say that these penned cattle were pumped full of antibiotics and anti-tick and lice medicine, jammed into pens that encouraged transfers of parasites and diseases, and the meat was colourless, flavourless and paled in comparison to the organic anyway"

Just what do you think happens to beef cattle anyhow? Cattle are continually pumped full of antibiotics to improve growth, with out the requirement of a veterinarian prescription, and treated with ivermectin to control lice. Cattle disease, how about foot and mouth disease, mad cow disease; ever hear of that one?

Nice to hear that you are trying to live an organic lifestyle but are you also advocating everyone return to eating wild meat? Gee I wonder how long the wild populations would last? Wild salmon was going for 40$ a pound in Seattle this spring. I imagine very few people could afford it. Farmed salmon is a lot more inexpensive but just as nutritious and healthy for you and is environmentally very low impact.

Alaskans may like to try and take the high road saying they do not have salmon farms but just look at the huge cage systems they have for holding fish. Every year they release 10's of billions of hatchery raised salmon smolts with no idea of the impact this has on the ocean ecosystem. Are you also advocating that cattle ranchers just let millions of cattle roam free where ever they want? Alaskan salmon runs fluctuate just like every other run of salmon in the world.

"A knee-jerk reaction"

Yep that about sums it up.

[Devilbear]

You make VERY sweeping statements concerning ...the ecosystem... and I am curious as to your credentials in respect of using this oftimes mis-understood and improperly used scientific term. Are you an RPBio. here in B.C. or are you a student at the graduate level at U.B.C. or UVic.?

Simply put, your comments do not reflect any real understanding of marine ecology and are obviously merely self-serving propaganda. If, you CAN supply DATA as to the ...impact...you refer to, well, do so; if not, well, pot, kettle, black, eh.....

[Andy83]

one thing I do not understand is why they are farming ATLANTIC salmon in the PACIFIC ocean? why not set up fish farms on the east coast where there are no wild pacific salmon to worry about???? Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't see the logic here. Mind you I do not see much logic in anything our government does anymore. And it does not seem to matter who you vote for, they are all greedy shite bags!!!
I went off on a bit of a tangent. So anyways, back to the fish, if anyone knows why they farm atlantic salmon here, and not off the coast of Newfoundland, let me know.

[Devilbear]

It's called MONEY!!!

[Andy83]

But no matter where they farm them, money will be made.

[betteroffishing]

because the atlantics grow quicker on less feed and are naturally more tollerant of varriables in temp and water quality. and emc , we do raise our cattle in wild game corridoors , we do add hormones and antibiotics , we do create resistant strains of parasite and deseases through the overuse of the above , the meat is of inferior flavcour and color to that of wild , and they do add nitrates and other stuff to enhance the color of some cheap grade beef . and while i envy your connection to affordable organic beef in the boo , surely you understand that the number of people who would have to die in order for us all to eat in such a style would put the nazi camps to shame . our earth only has so much carrying capacity for humans and we have chosen to ignore her natural limits , its now upon us to make some hard decisions , do we continue to poison her land water and air in order to keep all us ants busy for longer and longer spans or do we choose to ignore the pained death throws of half the earths human pop for a decade and all eat pesticide free , hormone free, free range diets rich in wild pacific salmon . i for one vote for the latter but thats me , im selfish . the liberals among us who hold forth the possibility of picking up a sh-t from the clean side wouldnt let that happen so were stuck in the real world for another century or so , you know when itll be too late to do anything about it all . while i agree fish farms are the devil and i dont serve or purchase farmed salmon , i also understand the implications of eliminating the pharmacutically{sp} raised cyber foods are far reaching and something our society would not tollerate.

[Johnnybear]

I just picked up a Westcoast Fisherman magazine the other day (I like reading up on the commercial side of things) and low and behold there was a huge fold out pamphlet about pro fish farming inside of it. Does anyone else find this ironic? I guess money talks (advertising money that is).

Lot's of interesting idea's on how we should feed ourselves in this thread:???:.

I can buy organic beef from our neighbour at work for less than I pay for it in the big stores so let's put an end to that discussion that it's a luxury or something. Get off your butts and seek it out and support your local farmer instead of ol' Jimmy Pattison and the industrial beef industry of Alberta;).

I kind of like the Alaskan's methods and would also like to see some "data" on the so called devastation it causes on the eco-system!

[spreerider]

The reason we farm atlantic is because they grow better in cage systems, unlike many of the higher value pacific salmon, like sockeye that cannot survive captive rearing.
Domestic atlantic salmon have been removed from the wild for over 50 years in europe and our atlantic salmon stocks come mostly from icelandic and norwegan stock even on the east coast of canada they use these fish as they have been bred for aquaculture not straight from wild fish. this makes them more resistant to diease and to the stress of the pen culture.

If everyone went from eating farmed salmon to only eating wild how long do you think it would be before we fished wild salmon to extinction?

Everything humans do has an effect on nature because we are part of that nature and its an elietest view that we are above nature.
do you do everything ecologically friendly, do you use paper products do you use cleansers, fuel, is your house wood, does your sewage pump into the ocean, all this will have an effect on salmon.
do you support logging that causes higher silt levels in streams killing salmon eggs and fry?
How many salmon have you directly killed? can you definatly 100% beyond a reasonable doubt prove that salmon farms have killed more fish than you as an individual?

No matter how many studies you read you will never be able to do this, all these studies are just someone looking at numbers and how to manipulate them or out for their own end looking for what they believe is the truth, not one of these studies on both sides gets finished and at the end of the day they come out and say sorry we were wrong fish farming is great or farmers come out and say fish farming is bad we will stop.

Fish farming is now the #1 employer on vancouver island the government cannot just get rid of all those jobs.
Remember when logging was the worst thing for the environment and a large number of people wanted logging the coast shut down for good.
You cannot have an uninformed (and unless you are directly involved you are uninformed no matter how much you read in papers and the net) mobs making the decisions with that many peoples livlyhoods on the line.


excuse any grammer, spelling mistakes and the like its late and way way too hot out.

[ElkMasterC]

Fish farming is now the #1 employer on Vancouver island

Wow....where did you get that statistic? Was it perhaps extracted from your hindquarters? It certainly wasn't from the Gov't website.

http://www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/pubs/qrs/dr1.pdf

And not even from the Salmon farming industry website:
"aquaculture industry provides direct jobs and opportunities (http://www.salmonfarmers.org/careers.php) for 2800 B.C. residents and including First Nations"

http://www.salmonfarmers.org/

I'm no mathematical genius, but 2800 jobs province-wide hardly qualifies as the biggest employer on Van Isle, esp considering that not all those jobs are on the Island. Even factoring in support jobs, man......wayyyy off.
Got a link to back that statement up?

Anyway, my final thoughts on this topic. A Creationist and an Evolutionist can talk themselves blue in the face to no avail. A Catholic and a Protestant, a Buddist and a Taoist, a Republican and a Democrat..well, you get the idea. I feel like the Local NDP Candidate that just knocked on Fisher-Dude's door, looking for a vote.... lol
I don't think anyone's of the idea that farming seafood should be outright banned. However, all due diligence must be taken to ensure that impacts on the environment are minimal, and hopefully, non-existent.
Enclosed pens, or land-based pens where the fish cannot escape, and any discharge can be strictly controlled is the viable alternative.(And those precious jobs saved) Critics scream about costs, but sometimes bitter pills must be swallowed.
I've made my point and, like I said I'm surprised and a little disappointed at some of the responses and attitudes here.
I'll leave this thread with two good reads on the topic.

Note: These aren't industry-sponsored, so might actually have facts in them. ;-) So be fore-warned.

From the BBC:
"Sea lice production from the farm we studied was four orders of magnitude - 30,000 times - higher than natural. These lice then spread out around the farm.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40974000/jpg/_40974547_sal_ap_203.jpg


"Infection of wild juvenile salmon was 73 times higher than ambient levels near the farm and exceeded ambient levels for 30km of the wild migration route.


Link here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4391711.stm



And one more:


Sea trout populations have been hit especially hard in Scotland,
Ireland, and Norway. Wild Atlantic salmon populations have also plummeted.
Each year, an estimated 30-50% of all sea trout and 48-86% of salmon smolts leaving Norway’s rivers are killed by farm-source lice. Farmed salmon in the North Atlantic now outnumber wild salmon by nearly 50:1.


http://www.watershed-watch.org/publications/files/SeaLice_BriefingNote_Oct2005.pdf


And I'm done. Discouraged and disheartened, but done.

Peace.
EMC Out.

[betteroffishing]

those articles are too sponsored , just sponsored by pro activist types not aquaculture industry types . like was stated in the post above yours , everyone , EVERYONE has an agenda and no one side of the debate is altruistic or above selling their posiotion through open manipulation of the facts. at least be open minded enough to see that .

[30.06 Hunter]

Interesting that anything that does not support your view is suspect and anything that supports your view is factual. I guess that is human nature though.

Here is some sea lice information from the BC coast.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/lice-pou-eng.htm

And the Pacific Salmon forum.

http://www.pacificsalmonforum.ca/final/index.php?op=final_faqs

In the end people will make up their own minds about what to eat and what not to eat. For some people it is very easy and inexpensive to live an "organic" lifestyle, for the majority it is not.
I would encourage everyone to eat as much salmon as they can, whether farmed or wild, as part of a healthier lifestyle.

[Devilbear]

I do notice that the supporters of the industry as presently configured seem VERY willing to throw around comments about various ecological situations' this is highly amusing, given their lack of ability to spell simple English and one CANNOT progress even through "Bio-101" with the lack of basic education they display.

SCIENCE is NOT about ...agendas..., it IS about precise, empirically obtained measurements of observable, natural phenomena and MUST repeat MUST be repeatable in order to be accepted. Sooo, the comments here about human effects on the Biosphere are simply wrong and indicate that those making them are both ignorant of ecological facts and are themselves "agenda-driven".

I strongly favour banning ALL "aquaculture" except that practiced in dry land pens and THEN I am sceptical about the health issues with the highly medicated fish. Atlantic Salmon sp. belong IN the Atlantic and NOT here in B.C.

[spreerider]

SCIENCE is NOT about ...agendas..., it IS about precise, empirically obtained measurements of observable, natural phenomena and MUST repeat MUST be repeatable in order to be accepted. Sooo, the comments here about human effects on the Biosphere are simply wrong and indicate that those making them are both ignorant of ecological facts and are themselves "agenda-driven".


this only applies in a perfectly scientific world, but we dont live in one we live in a political world of agenda's. Most studies that you read in papers or on the internet are not accepted as truth in the scientific comunity as a whole as they do not go through peer review and proper scrutiny and instead are released through a non scientific media (ie newspapers can print just about whatever they want and make many reporting mistakes)


I do notice that the supporters of the industry as presently configured seem VERY willing to throw around comments about various ecological situations' this is highly amusing, given their lack of ability to spell simple English and one CANNOT progress even through "Bio-101" with the lack of basic education they display.

I find this quite insulting, Spelling is not a marker of intelligence, especially on the internet, Just because i am not an english major with perfect spelling means i am not as intelligent as someone else, perhaps i can read and write electrical diagrams better than you, does this make me better than you?
As i keep a living reef in my house i probably have a better understanding of marine biology and water chemistry than average but this doesnt make me smarter than you, just that i have an interest in this area and chose to explore it more, i am sure you have other interests that you know more about than me but i will not call you out because you dont know as much as i do regarding one subject.

[spreerider]

For onland cage farms, salmon are not an effective species, the volume of water and turnover rate required are enormous, and just the electrical cost to run sufficient pumps to keep the fish healthy with minimul stocking is in itself bad for the environment.

One of the greatest concerns for our wild salmon is damming rivers to generate power, if we move all the farms onto land we would require alot of power to run the pumps and other machinery, that woudl requier more generation and more rivers dammed off or other environmentally unfriendly method.

[winchester284]

My concern about the supposed facts from the DFO website is the very real potential for political bias. It has been well documented that the collapse of the east coast cod fishery was forecast years before it happened. Government however countered the "facts" by continuing to allow fishing because of the economic benefits that the east coasters were receiving. They continued to allow the fishing because of the economic benefits that were deemed neccessary for the east coast provinces. Ultimately the fishery was closed down totally and it's been over a decade and the stocks still do not support a viable cod fishery. The cost to government has been huge!

The cod fishery in my mind is similar to the salmon fishery, not neccessarily in the sense it is being over fished, but in the sense that DFO is ignoring the facts surrounding the detrimental effects of fish farms on the wild salmon because of the economic benefits fish farming has for BC. My fear is that one day we will wake up to see no wild salmon at all. The effects will be devastating on not only the economy, but on the wild life that exists because of the salmon.

[Devilbear]

Exactly, and THAT is the point that the agenda-driven industrialists ALWAYS ignore, just as they did with the forest industry here in B.C. However, when the terminally ignorant are allowed to make decisions concerning vulnerable species, ecosystems and base these on their short-term economic concerns, well, Alexandra's comments are validated.

When, you have an "education" system, that is as pathetic as our Canadian one is, then, the sort of utter ignorance of SCIENCE and what it actually IS tends to obscure any real hope of a general understanding of what can/should be done to keep our fisheries sustainable. Many of the comments here demonstrate that only too well.

Marine ecosystems are highly complex and variable and are VERY difficult to study; my personal interests are in sub-alpine ecology and wildlife adaptation, however, one of my nephews is a Phd. in marine ecology and was born and obtained his "honours" Bsc. in Nanaimo. I spent some time as a Lightkeeper and so have some actual field experience to base my opinions on, but, we know so little, that the contemporary "ethos" of management is not based on real science, as it should be.

Anyone can claim to "understand" ANYTHING, but, it certainly is not obvious here that many understand or even care about the Salmon and the marine habitat they require to survive.