rich mans sport

[jasper]

was looking at some of the guide outfitter sites and found out your average stone sheep hunt runs about 30 to 40 thousand dollars ouch!!

[jasper]

here is about 400.000 grand worth of bonehttp://www.stonemountainsafaris.com/photos/photo9.jpg

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I think there's going to be a correction in the market as there have been MANY cancelled hunts this yr due to the economy. How much of a correction?? Who knows:???:

SSS

[Stoneddallhunter]

SSS that is music to my ears. I am tired of bumping into guided hunters while in pursuit of Stone's. The more cancelled hunts the better say I. Calling all you Merkin hunters, go ahead and cancel. Do it. Do it now.

p.s. a BC resident does not need to be rich. He just needs a good set of legs and knowledge of where to go:grin:

[open-sights]

p.s. a BC resident does not need to be rich. He just needs a good set of legs and knowledge of where to go:grin:

Amen to that. Well put.

[Blainer]

This makes an Africa safari seem cheap.


8 DAY PACKAGE HUNT


$3,725.00 US
8 FULL DAYS OF HUNTING*
1X1 Hunting - 5 Trophy Animals

[ROEBUCK]

thats a crazy price 30 to 40 grand wow!!!!! bet that dont include any extras also! for around 10 grand you can hunt a cape buffalo with 5 star service free booze and food a leopard for around 5 grand again including all inclusive accomadation, a lioness is around 10 grand, and a cow or non trophy bull elephant is about 10 grand also, so for the same money you could hunt 4 of the big five with 5 star all inclusive accomadation!

[Barracuda]

I actually like the fact that the hunts are high priced for non residents.

Why would anyone call the people dumb for wanting to hunt for thier desired species (for many they save thier whole life for it). I am very sure that they feel the same way about the people that dont hunt and live here.

yes money buys favours ,hunting buddies, Guides and trophies but at the end of the day does it really matter?

We have a ton of opportunities here so someone willing pay to play really does not affect me.

[boxhitch]

Why would anyone call the people dumb for wanting to hunt for thier desired species (for many they save thier whole life for it). I am very sure that they feel the same way about the people that dont hunt and live here.
X2
Calling someone dumb because they have $30k to pay for a hunt ? Plus airfares ? And the two weeks free time ?:roll: :-? :roll:

Supply and demand set the price, and there are no Stone's in Africa.

[FlyingHigh]

This makes an Africa safari seem cheap.


8 DAY PACKAGE HUNT


$3,725.00 US
8 FULL DAYS OF HUNTING*
1X1 Hunting - 5 Trophy Animals


whoa. sweet. which outfitter is that with?

[Gateholio]

B and N are right beside each other on the keyboard. A and U are nowhere near each other....

:biggrin:

[houndogger]

To each their own. I would bet if they are dropping 30k on a sheep hunt they are probably wealthy buisness man or woman. I am sure it is a drop in the bucket for them. Some dream of africa some dream of B.C. Can you blame them? We live in the best place on the planet8)

[Night Hawk 3]

B and N are right beside each other on the keyboard. A and U are nowhere near each other....

:biggrin:

Same difference...

[Barracuda]

:biggrin:
B and N are right beside each other on the keyboard. A and U are nowhere near each other....

:biggrin:


i wasnt sure which anti american sentiment they were going for so i went with the most common? :roll:

perhaps they were combineing the two? :biggrin:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

SSS that is music to my ears. I am tired of bumping into guided hunters while in pursuit of Stone's. The more cancelled hunts the better say I. Calling all you Merkin hunters, go ahead and cancel. Do it. Do it now.

p.s. a BC resident does not need to be rich. He just needs a good set of legs and knowledge of where to go:grin:

I wouldn't hold your breath hoping for lower number non-resis in the mtns...just yet. Cancelled hunts means they've lost their deposits. Lots of GO's out there willing to sell those cancelled hunts minus the deposit. It's happenned enough this yr where hunters are calling up GO's and asking for a cost-reduced hunt.

SSS

[jasper]

.

p.s. a BC resident does not need to be rich. He just needs a good set of legs and knowledge of where to go:grin:[/quote]
true enough its just if a resident hunter wanted to go the outfitted route its priced so high your average working family guy would have to wait half a life time to save that kind of money charge the non residents through the nose but give the locals some sort of a break :grin:

[Barracuda]

gotta admit i have thought of that also I think the closest one can come to it would be a liscenced packer.

[huntwriter]

Not every hunter that comes to this province is a rich man. A good many of these hunters save up money for many years so they can go on a once in a lifetime hunt. Why call this hunters dumb? Is it really necessary that hunters always have to belittle each other and while doing so feed the anti hunting movement?

Why wish that more hunters cancel their hunts in BC? There are thousands of people that make a living directly or indirectly of hunting in this province and it brings millions of dollars to this province. Canceled hunts means unemployment and loss of important revenue. In the current economic situation losing more revenue and having more people loos their jobs is surly not what we want.

[frenchbar]

Not every hunter that comes to this province is a rich man. A good many of these hunters save up money for many years so they can go on a once in a lifetime hunt. Why call this hunters dumb? Is it really necessary that hunters always have to belittle each other and while doing so feed the anti hunting movement?

Why wish that more hunters cancel their hunts in BC? There are thousands of people that make a living directly or indirectly of hunting in this province and it brings millions of dollars to this province. Canceled hunts means unemployment and loss of important revenue. In the current economic situation losing more revenue and having more people loos their jobs is surly not what we want.

Your right on not everybodys rich that comes up from the USA,freind of mine guided a couple young guys in their early 20s once who had saved up for a few yrs to go on there trip of a life time for bighorn.These guys job was cutting the grass between the freeways in California and didnt pay a whole lot of cash.

[Stoneddallhunter]

Packer, floatplane, foot, jetboat all possible for a BC resident.

If I were going to spend big money on a Stone sheep hunt I would opt to give less money to me as a birthday gift and I will allow you to be my hunting partner!:grin:

Paying an outfitter is not a guarantee but it sure is nice to ride up with a pack string and have a capable and knowledgable guide at your side. A man has to be in decent shape no matter how you choose to do it.
I would opt for a Yukon or NWT Dall's hunt if I were going to buck up. Stone's country is easy to access for a BC resident.

Low fog, snowstorms, and rainy weather always play havoc with a sheep hunt.

[jml11]

I heard a guy from BC got a monster Dall in the NWT last fall and did it by refinancing his mortgage!

[Stoneddallhunter]

Why wish that more hunters cancel their hunts in BC? There are thousands of people that make a living directly or indirectly of hunting in this province and it brings millions of dollars to this province. Canceled hunts means unemployment and loss of important revenue. In the current economic situation losing more revenue and having more people loose their jobs is surly not what we want.

Sorry, I have no concern if an outfitter loses business, goes bankrupt, or cant pay the bills. I also have no concerns if a hunting magazine or a company that sells hunting equipment closes the doors. It is a tough world out there.

But I do like the idea of less big rams being killed, especially in the areas I like to hunt.

[bigwhiteys]

true enough its just if a resident hunter wanted to go the outfitted route its priced so high your average working family guy would have to wait half a life time to save that kind of money charge the non residents through the nose but give the locals some sort of a break

If a resident hunter wanted to buy a guided stone sheep hunt they would pay much less then the advertised USD price. Stone Mtn Safaris is one such outfit who takes residents. I believe the ram doesn't come off the outfitters quota either... So they can sell just as many foreign hunts as they usually would.

Carl

[huntwriter]

Why wish that more hunters cancel their hunts in BC? There are thousands of people that make a living directly or indirectly of hunting in this province and it brings millions of dollars to this province. Canceled hunts means unemployment and loss of important revenue. In the current economic situation losing more revenue and having more people loose their jobs is surly not what we want.

Sorry, I have no concern if an outfitter loses business, goes bankrupt, or cant pay the bills. I also have no concerns if a hunting magazine or a company that sells hunting equipment closes the doors. It is a tough world out there.

But I do like the idea of less big rams being killed, especially in the areas I like to hunt.

So you also have no concern if people become unemployed and the province loses more hunting revenue which would also weaken our stand against the anti hunters. I hope for you that nobody ever thinks of your profession in such a self serving way and you become unemployed because of it. Like I said a few times. Sometimes hunters are their own worst enemy and the antis are laughing.

[Stoneddallhunter]

So you also have no concern if people become unemployed and the province loses more hunting revenue which would also weaken our stand against the anti hunters. I hope for you that nobody ever thinks of your profession in such a self serving way and you become unemployed because of it. Like I said a few times. Sometimes hunters are their own worst enemy and the antis are laughing.

Nobody has to. All the heavy equipment is parked. None of the land is selling and I'm no longer generating revenue. As I say, its a tough world. Should have lots of time to focus on a Stone's sheep this year.

[boxhitch]

.

charge the non residents through the nose but give the locals some sort of a break :grin:Get right on that and let us know how you make out.
Maybe someone will give you a break on the fuel price on the way, too.

[steelheadSABO]

30 40 grand i know what job i want

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If a resident hunter wanted to buy a guided stone sheep hunt they would pay much less then the advertised USD price. Stone Mtn Safaris is one such outfit who takes residents. I believe the ram doesn't come off the outfitters quota either... So they can sell just as many foreign hunts as they usually would.

Carl

Absolutely.
David Heitsmann from this site has done this at least 6 times. Send him a PM for those outfits willing to guide a resident at a reduced rate. It did take him at least 6 trips to finally get a ram that made him happy....so I'm not sure how that compares to a resident that does it himself??:-?

SSS

[gamehunter6o]

Calling all you Merkin hunters, go ahead and cancel. Do it. Do it now.

p.s. a BC resident does not need to be rich. He just needs a good set of legs and knowledge of where to go:grin:

Merkin;A female pubic hair piece.
I didn't know you could actually hunt them. I know you can buy them from Sirs, the mens hair piece shop and they come in all colours.:biggrin:

[Sitkaspruce]

Sorry, I have no concern if an outfitter loses business, goes bankrupt, or cant pay the bills. I also have no concerns if a hunting magazine or a company that sells hunting equipment closes the doors. It is a tough world out there.

But I do like the idea of less big rams being killed, especially in the areas I like to hunt.

Just goes to show us that we will never win the fight against the anti's and others with statements like this. Putting me out of a part time job will not hurt me as I have a full time job and just guide for the fun of it. Not to many jobs out there that you can get paid for doing something you really love.

95% of those who I guide are blue collar workers who have saved and saved to do a once and a lifetime hunt. I sure hope they keep injecting their $$$ into our economy, because right now we need all the help we can get. Campbell is not helping us any.

But with the NIMBY's like this, who want it all for themselves and be damn to the outside world, I have to ask how many sheep do you need to kill to be satisfied that you have enough, or do you dislike a little competition with somone who paid to hunt a sheep and helped put food on the table of a guide, a wrangler, a cook and who knows who else.

I do not agree with most allocation processes, but my understanding is that a lot of G/O got cut way back on their sheep quota, which should allow the NYMBY's to go kill a BIG RAM and still be happy.

Is hunting not about enjoying the outdoors and just being out there???? The kill is just a bonus and if you get lucky enough to kill an animal, all the power to you to show it off and be proud of it. You are pretty lucky to just be able to hunt sheep with an OTC tag. Most places it is a draw system.

Good luck on the sheep hunt and make sure you post up the ram you shoot:-D.

Cheers

SS

[Stoneddallhunter]

I do not pay attention to the "anti" movement. Much better things to do with my time and mind.
Sorry bud but I just dont care if the Guide Outfitting business falls on hard times and revenues decrease. Don't take it personally and please dont blather on about NIMBY.

The silver lining may be greater quality sheep harvest opportunity for me and others that live here in BC. I like that.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Sorry, I have no concern if an outfitter loses business, goes bankrupt, or cant pay the bills. I also have no concerns if a hunting magazine or a company that sells hunting equipment closes the doors. It is a tough world out there.


That's a pretty ignorant view on things. Outfitting and guiding is a pretty big business that puts a fair bit of money back into the economy. Not to mention the fact that guiding is what puts me through school at the moment. It's because of this recession that I'm at home right now instead of up north making money, I have to go up 2 weeks later than usual due to cancellations. Next year could be even worse and we could see alot of guide/outfitters unemployed for the season.
This attitude you have is also why there are so many rifts between the hunting community. No matter what "section" of hunter you fall into, all hunters need to be united or else this whole thing will self-destruct one day...and it won't be because of the Anti's, it will because of hunters ourselves.

[bigwhiteys]

Absolutely.
David Heitsmann from this site has done this at least 6 times. Send him a PM for those outfits willing to guide a resident at a reduced rate. It did take him at least 6 trips to finally get a ram that made him happy....so I'm not sure how that compares to a resident that does it himself??:???:

SSS

What's your point...? I know many others who've gone multiple trips/years without shooting a ram, including myself. It's called "hunting" Brent. Believe it or not there are sheep hunters who aren't out to kill the first legal ram they see.

Carl

[gamehunter6o]

[quote=huntwriter;478856]Not every hunter that comes to this province is a rich man. A good many of these hunters save up money for many years so they can go on a once in a lifetime hunt. Why call these hunters dumb? Is it really necessary that hunters always have to belittle each other and while doing so feed the anti hunting movement?

Thanks Huntwriter, I'm one of those "dumb" hunters that isn't as rich as some of the contributors to this thread think all non resident aliens are.
I can only afford to hunt in BC because I haven't wasted income on what many people class as "must haves" all my life. I drive a 1992 Mazda ute, and my wife, a 1998 Mazda car. Our TV is 15yr old and has a square screen. I've only just lost the callouses on my hands for the first time since my teens.
I believe I well and truly pay my way when hunting in BC. Last years hunt cost $7,700USD, (travel extra) I saw 3 elk and shot none in 10 days, but had a great time.
I'd like to do a horse back hunt for moose in the Yukon, next year, but at $13-17,000USD, that'll be a toughy.
After 45yrs of free hunting in NZ, that's a big shock. The resident hunting and hunting in general is strengthened by hunting being "big business".

I'm back this year for more. There aint no hunting in heaven.

[gamehunter6o]

This attitude you have is also why there are so many rifts between the hunting community. No matter what "section" of hunter you fall into, all hunters need to be united or else this whole thing will self-destruct one day...and it won't be because of the Anti's, it will because of hunters ourselves.

Even in NZ where the hunters opposition is the Department of Conservation, who's doctron is to exterminate every deer in the country, as they were introduced, hunters can not unite to fight a common foe.
In my 45yrs of membership of NZ Deer Stalkers Association, I've seen this faction and that faction break away because they got their nickers in a twist over this or that.
The best way to win against a foe is to split them up.
Hunters in NZ are just starting to get their act together, for how long,who knows.
Bloody hunters.:roll:

[Stoneddallhunter]

That's a pretty ignorant view on things. Outfitting and guiding is a pretty big business that puts a fair bit of money back into the economy. Not to mention the fact that guiding is what puts me through school at the moment. It's because of this recession that I'm at home right now instead of up north making money, I have to go up 2 weeks later than usual due to cancellations. Next year could be even worse and we could see alot of guide/outfitters unemployed for the season.
This attitude you have is also why there are so many rifts between the hunting community. No matter what "section" of hunter you fall into, all hunters need to be united or else this whole thing will self-destruct one day...and it won't be because of the Anti's, it will because of hunters ourselves.

Yawn. Send me your address and I will ship out a case of tissues. I wont even attempt to bore you or others with my current financial issues.

[kootenayelkslayer]

I'm not looking for any sympathy buddy. I'm saying you need to open your eyes up a bit and take a little less selfish view when it comes to hunting/outfitting. Just because you might be in the tank financially you want other people to be stuck in the same situation?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

What's your point...? I know many others who've gone multiple trips/years without shooting a ram, including myself. It's called "hunting" Brent. Believe it or not there are sheep hunters who aren't out to kill the first legal ram they see.

Carl
My point was ...well it was actually a question...what's the average success rate on guided Stone's hunt? I would imagine that most solid outfits run at least a 50% success rate. Was it really a "deal"...or a horseback trip with a smile???

SSS

[Stoneddallhunter]

Who said anything about being in the tank?????:grin: Nothing selfish about the way I feel and my eyes are always wide open. I did not infer that I want other people to be in the tank. I said that I don't care.

Perhaps I should change my handle to "Smiling All The Way To and From The Bank" :wink: so folks like you are not confused.


I'm not looking for any sympathy buddy. I'm saying you need to open your eyes up a bit and take a little less selfish view when it comes to hunting/outfitting. Just because you might be in the tank financially you want other people to be stuck in the same situation?

[NaStY]

Anyone else hear get the feeling "RiverBoatFantasy" is back?????

[bigwhiteys]

Anyone else hear get the feeling "RiverBoatFantasy" is back?????


lol... good call.

[Stoneddallhunter]

The name is Stoned. Stoneddallhunter. I'm good looking, rich, and one helluva hunter and I am happy to be here.

[NaStY]

Ya ok then :roll:

Well have fun with that. Not everyone is as special as you.....

[kootenayelkslayer]

The name is Stoned. Stoneddallhunter. I'm good looking, rich, and one helluva hunter and I am happy to be here.

Hahah that must be fun living in your own little fantasy world.

[houndogger]

Absolutely.
David Heitsmann from this site has done this at least 6 times. Send him a PM for those outfits willing to guide a resident at a reduced rate. It did take him at least 6 trips to finally get a ram that made him happy....so I'm not sure how that compares to a resident that does it himself??:-?

SSS

Not to sure why you and a few others are always bring David up? I don't know him from Adam. Everybody can hunt the way they want and if this is how he likes and does it all the power to him! I would love to go on a guided leopard hunt with hounds one day! Sorry if that makes me a bad guy too:cool:

[BlacktailStalker]

A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him.

Quick, lynch the new guy who doesn't "follow" :roll:
To each their own.
There's nothing stopping anybody from being as successful as they want to be except themselves.

[frenchbar]

The name is Stoned. Stoneddallhunter. I'm good looking, rich, and one helluva hunter and I am happy to be here.

you have Ultamag bob written all over ya ,maybe his evil twin:mrgreen:

[Bearen 09]

Hey "good looking, rich, helluva hunter"...must be nice to live in a world where you see yourself as better then everyone else. Guys like you shouldn't even be able to call themselves a hunter. Enjoy the "wonderful" life you have now because with an arrogant attitude like yours it will not get you far. Your comments make you look like an idiot...you would have been better off keep them to yourself. You have a right to your opinion, but in the real world you should open your eyes to others opinions too, and not be so naive. p.s. if your sending out tissue, can I get some 2-ply?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Not to sure why you and a few others are always bring David up? I don't know him from Adam. Everybody can hunt the way they want and if this is how he likes and does it all the power to him! I would love to go on a guided leopard hunt with hounds one day! Sorry if that makes me a bad guy too:cool:

Someone mentiond going on a discount guided sheep hunt as a resident so it doesn't count against their quota. David has mentioned that he has done this numerous times. I told the person to send him a pm as he can probably help out(not all GOs would do this).

Personally, I (and many others I know on here )would be a little leary that I would get a "tour" and not given the same chance to harvest a ram as a full paying non-resident.:neutral:

SSS

[NaStY]

Wow banned already. That didnt take long...


Stoneddallhunter (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/member.php?u=13346) http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Banned

[Blainer]

Not to sure why you and a few others are always bring David up? I don't know him from Adam. Everybody can hunt the way they want and if this is how he likes and does it all the power to him! I would love to go on a guided leopard hunt with hounds one day! Sorry if that makes me a bad guy too:cool:I have met David and believe him to be a successful businessman as well as a successful hunter.
He has done lot's for the sport and is more than willing to be helpful when needed.
David has been on many guided hunts,and success is to be determined by the individual.
I would wager that his trophy room is second to none.

[bigwhiteys]

Personally, I (and many others I know on here )would be a little leary that I would get a "tour" and not given the same chance to harvest a ram as a full paying non-resident.:neutral:

Putting some more wood on the fire in between sobs. :roll:

Carl

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Putting some more wood on the fire in between sobs. :roll:

Carl

More like looking at it from the"business side" of it as a GO. :neutral:

SSS

[bigwhiteys]

More like looking at it from the"business side" of it as a GO.

SSS

And another log for the fire, wet with tears. :cry:

Carl

[kootenayelkslayer]

Personally, I (and many others I know on here )would be a little leary that I would get a "tour" and not given the same chance to harvest a ram as a full paying non-resident.:neutral:

SSS

Ya that would probably be in the back of my mind if I was in that situation. You never know with some of the outfitters out there! :lol:

[willy442]

Someone mentiond going on a discount guided sheep hunt as a resident so it doesn't count against their quota. David has mentioned that he has done this numerous times. I told the person to send him a pm as he can probably help out(not all GOs would do this).

Personally, I (and many others I know on here )would be a little leary that I would get a "tour" and not given the same chance to harvest a ram as a full paying non-resident.:neutral:

SSS

No doubt if it was you, a TOUR would be the correct word. David has bucked up for guided hunts and appears to go for the experiance as much as the kill. I have not seen him complain on here once in regards to one of his hunts. So he most likely feels he had a good time and probably got his money's worth. Remember Guide Outfitters sell a service to get you into the country on a hunt, feed and care for you, then bring you back out at the end. Hopefully with a Ram. There are no quarantee's as you would hope.
I also have taken out both BC residents and Non Resident Canadians. On every occassion they are clients and were treated the same as any other.
Your mistrust for the G/O industry and it for you is something, you yourself have done alot to create. Looks good on you!:lol:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

No doubt if it was you, a TOUR would be the correct word. David has bucked up for guided hunts and appears to go for the experiance as much as the kill. I have not seen him complain on here once in regards to one of his hunts. So he most likely feels he had a good time and probably got his money's worth. Remember Guide Outfitters sell a service to get you into the country on a hunt, feed and care for you, then bring you back out at the end. Hopefully with a Ram. There are no quarantee's as you would hope.
I also have taken out both BC residents and Non Resident Canadians. On every occassion they are clients and were treated the same as any other.
Your mistrust for the G/O industry and it for you is something, you yourself have done alot to create. Looks good on you!:lol:

Willy
What was your career success rate as a guide??

SSS

[silvertipp]

i know some resident hunters who have been guided for two years & not been able to see many legal rams with out being able to shoot one
question do you think the guided resident hunt has a smaller success rate the the non resident hunts & how do you justify chareging such huge amounts to go on a hunt

[willy442]

Willy
What was your career success rate as a guide??

SSS

Very Good as you've seen from the picture's. Remember experiance will increase success. Keep hoofing the ridges.

[willy442]

i know some resident hunters who have been guided for two years & not been able to see many legal rams with out being able to shoot one
question do you think the guided resident hunt has a smaller success rate the the non resident hunts & how do you justify chareging such huge amounts to go on a hunt

I believe if you do your home work on who you are hunting with and the area, you should recieve the same service as any other hunter. I have been on both sides of the fence and when booked with other outfitters. I recieved the same service as any other, with the exception of a green guide due to unforseen issues sprung on the G/O on one hunt. This was not a problem due to my own ability as a guide.
The justifacation on price issue is something it's almost impossible to see unless you have been on one of these hunts. The cost of commercially accessing some of these remote area's is huge. Horses are used for 3 months, but eat year around, airplanes are very costly to operate, tents rot out every three to four years. Most lodges are totally self sufficiant, ie; their own power generation, and all the rest. We use to figure it cost us 74% of gross revenue to operate.

[silvertipp]

if this is true than why arent all species hunted the same price ,
as far as my freinds one trip in 1/3 of the price pack trip only same area two sheep none guided

[willy442]

if this is true than why arent all species hunted the same price ,
as far as my freinds one trip in 1/3 of the price pack trip only same area two sheep none guided

Moose and Caribou hunts are generally shorter and can be hunted 2 hunters to a guide with very good success. Thus reducing costs. Goat are an animal that can be hunted throughout North America and do not draw the huge price that supply and demand of Sheep sets.
If your friends are hunting with licenced packers, unguided, I would think the price would be alot less than a fully serviced hunt.

[silvertipp]

you can pack in for sheep for about 4 grand the same hunt with a guide is about 30 grand so are you telling me that the personal guide is worth 26 thousand

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If I was a full-paying client I would expect the best treatment no matter if I was a resident or non-resident...but I believe DH mentioned somewhere paying ~1/3 the non-resident rate(IIRC??).

Willy-Were the residents client's hunts "full value" or were they discounted that much??

SSS

[houndogger]

I have met David and believe him to be a successful businessman as well as a successful hunter.
He has done lot's for the sport and is more than willing to be helpful when needed.
David has been on many guided hunts,and success is to be determined by the individual.
I would wager that his trophy room is second to none.

Just what I would have guessed.

The main point I am trying to say is he is a hunter. If he is a successful businessman then some on here should be trying to get on his good side. I am sure he would probably beat SSS, BCrams, Willy...me you in a donation for this new fund Bridger is trying to get going.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just what I would have guessed.

The main point I am trying to say is he is a hunter. If he is a successful businessman then some on here should be trying to get on his good side. I am sure he would probably beat SSS, BCrams, Willy...me you in a donation for this new fund Bridger is trying to get going.

I "think" he would be more interested in supporting "Residents for Quality Hunts"....not speaking for him...just guessing:neutral:. The BCRHPF and the RQH have opposing agendas.

SSS

[hunter1947]

Way back years ago I used to see dozens of stone sheep on the mountains above where I hunted for moose.

They never interested me for a hunt for them.
If a persons young in age and has got good health and is in good shape and knows where to hunt Stone ,Dall or Bighorn you will get your ram ,may not be the first year.

It may take two or 3 years to fill your tag but you will find your sheep and you fill your tag ,the key is to find an area that carries good numbers and as remote as possible http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[Deaddog]

While there are those that disagree with David H regarding different hunting issues I would challenge anyone to question his commitment to wildlife in BC. I personally am aware of 10's of thousands of dollars he has used of his own money to benefit wild sheep in BC. Not many others put their money where there mouth is. DD

[Stone Sheep Steve]

While there are those that disagree with David H regarding different hunting issues I would challenge anyone to question his commitment to wildlife in BC. I personally am aware of 10's of thousands of dollars he has used of his own money to benefit wild sheep in BC. Not many others put their money where there mouth is. DD

I am certainly not questioning his commitment to wildlife in BC, that's for sure....and I apologize to DH if any of my posts were misconstrued to make people believe that I felt otherwise.

SSS

[jasper]

wow looks like i stired up all kinds of diferent thoughts its been a good read i dont think i personaly would ever pay that kind of money for a fully guided hunt but the idea of a fly in drop of self guided hunt may be possible some day they put you in the general area of sheep and you and your boots do the rest i hunted calis on a leh draw a couple years ago it was one of the best hunts i have ever been on i saw lots of rams a couple leagal to but not the one i wanted sheep live in such beautiful country it was nice just to be out there with them i have not hunted them since then but i shure do think about it i think maybe i caught that sheep bug ha ha:-D

[willy442]

you can pack in for sheep for about 4 grand the same hunt with a guide is about 30 grand so are you telling me that the personal guide is worth 26 thousand

There is alot more than just the guide. The service between to two services is not even comparable.

[willy442]

If I was a full-paying client I would expect the best treatment no matter if I was a resident or non-resident...but I believe DH mentioned somewhere paying ~1/3 the non-resident rate(IIRC??).

Willy-Were the residents client's hunts "full value" or were they discounted that much??

SSS

In the early nineties our sheep hunts were 18,000.00 US and we would take the resident for 14 days, fully serviced for 7500,00 Can.

[willy442]

I "think" he would be more interested in supporting "Residents for Quality Hunts"....not speaking for him...just guessing:neutral:. The BCRHPF and the RQH have opposing agendas.

SSS

The problem you can't seem to grasp is we are all hunters. It's damn well time this is considered are we will all go down in the near future.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The problem you can't seem to grasp is we are all hunters. It's damn well time this is considered are we will all go down in the near future.

"I" can't seem to grasp??:???:

SSS

[willy442]

"I" can't seem to grasp??:???:

SSS

Yeah; You are the one chucking shit at those that take guided hunts, Outfitters, and anyone else that seems to be able to be more successful in their quest for sheep than you are. :roll:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

The problem you can't seem to grasp is we are all hunters. It's damn well time this is considered are we will all go down in the near future.

Please exlpain to me how putting mule deer bucks on LEH in the Chilcotin would be good for the future of hunting here in BC??

Explain that one and you'll win me over.

SSS

[Gateholio]

In the early nineties our sheep hunts were 18,000.00 US and we would take the resident for 14 days, fully serviced for 7500,00 Can.

I wish I had been interested in sheep hunting in the early 90's!:biggrin:

Of course, I was building my house then, probably couldn't have afforded it anyway.:grin:

[hunter1947]

I myself have never payed for a guided hunt for any animal and never will.

[Seeadler]

Sheep hunting is one of those things that the price of which has FAR outpaced inflation. This will either continue or there will be a major correction, more likely the first option. In 10 years look for $80,000 sheep hunts.

[silvertipp]

packers are the way to go ,get you in the back country food ,tents showers at base camp than it up to you & affordable prices for just about anyone

[jml11]

Sheep hunting is one of those things that the price of which has FAR outpaced inflation. This will either continue or there will be a major correction, more likely the first option. In 10 years look for $80,000 sheep hunts.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't supply and demand dictate the price of sheep hunts in Norh America more than inflation and operating costs? I've noticed the price of California Bighorn hunts are on par or exceed many Stone's hunts now. From discussions with others this hasn't always been the case. It is thought he increase in Cali hunt prices is due to increased demand from americans as many sheep organizations and hunters are unofficially recognizing the California Bighorn as a completely seperate species from the Rocky Mountain Bighorn (The official NA Sheep Slam lumps them together as Bighorn) and they want one on their wall as well. As we have quite a few Cali outfits here in BC, the hunters are looking here. I think the only way we would see $80,000 sheep hunts is if the guides allocations dropped to near nothing, in which case it may be justified.

Most outfitters have a very limited quota on sheep and not so much on other species which to me justifies the added expenses that come with guided sheep hunts versus a common moose or elk hunt (which for the most part have better trophy opportunities in the USA). A resident hunter going on a guided hunt should be cheaper as to my understanding their tag can be purchased by them anywhere in BC and does not affect the guides quota (?).

[jml11]

Looks to me like Desert Bighorns are the true Rich mans sport in NA. Here's an excerpt from a online source I found. Prices are from 2007/2008 and do not include licence, tag or trophy fees (maybe $5,000-20,000 depending on outfit and species). Oh and airfare not included as well.


1. Dall Alaska/Wrangell-Nutzotin 7 days/Aug-Sept $12,000 Glenallen Grizzly,Wolf
2. Dall Alaska/Brooks (ANWR) 8 days/Aug-Sept $12,900 Deadhorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
3. Dall Alaska/Wrangell-Nutzotin 10 days/Aug-Sept $12,000 Tok Wolf
4. Dall Yukon 10 days/Aug $15,500 Whitehorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
5. Dall Yukon 10 days/Aug $11,700 Whitehorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
6. Dall N.W.T./MacKenzie Mtns. 10 days/Aug CAD $19,500 Norman Wells Wolf, Wolverine
7. Stone B.C./Kechika 14 days/Aug-Sept $24,000 Prince George Caribou, Moose, Grizzly, etc.
8. Stone B.C./Cassiar 14 days/Aug-Sept $26,000 Whitehorse Caribou, Goat, Wolf
9. Stone Yukon/Central 12 days/Aug-Sept $26,000 Whitehorse Moose, Caribou, Grizzly, etc.

10. Stone B.C./Skeena Mtns. 14 days/Aug-Sept $25,000 Smithers Goat, Moose, Grizzly, Wolf
11. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn B.C./E. Kootenay 10 days/Sept-Oct $22,000 Cranbrook Elk, Deer, Black Bear
12. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Alberta/Brazeau River 14 days/Sept-Oct $23,000 Calgary Elk, Wolf
13. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn B.C./Kootenay 10 days/Sept-Oct $20,500 Cranbrook Elk, Deer, Black Bear
14. Desert Bighorn Baja (South) 10 days/Dec-Mar $45,000 La Paz
15. Desert Bighorn Sonora 10 days/Dec-Mar $60,000 Hermosillo Mule Deer, Coues Deer

[houndogger]

I myself have never payed for a guided hunt for any animal and never will.

That is the case with the bulk of BC resident hunters. Most can't even come close to hunting the province to it fullest, myself included. Maybe when the kids get older I will get serious again8) Most of the hunters I have guided in the past have always dreamed of getting a canadian moose. Saved for years and really cherish the hunt. Same as some of the cougar hunters. You can get way cheaper hunts in the US but they have always dreamed of seeing a big BC cougar.

[willy442]

Please exlpain to me how putting mule deer bucks on LEH in the Chilcotin would be good for the future of hunting here in BC??

Explain that one and you'll win me over.

SSS


GG tutoring you now?

[wideload]

Absolutely.
David Heitsmann from this site has done this at least 6 times. Send him a PM for those outfits willing to guide a resident at a reduced rate. It did take him at least 6 trips to finally get a ram that made him happy....so I'm not sure how that compares to a resident that does it himself??:-?

SSSare you for real?? six trips whith no ram,sounds like he is getting his moneys worth there!
do you really think he is being treated like someone who paid full price?
come on give your head a shake!!

[willy442]

are you for real?? six trips whith no ram,sounds like he is getting his moneys worth there!
do you really think he is being treated like someone who paid full price?
come on give your head a shake!!

Maybe the thing to do would be ask him. I fail to see where anyone said he took no Rams. I think he actually took a couple. What the statement did say was he had 6 hunts before he shot one he was satisfied with, guess his standards might be higher than yours.

[Mr. Dean]

Just lookin'.....

[hunter1947]

Years back when hunting moose in the redfern lake area I used to like beating the guide outfitters to the backend of the draws where the moose hung out ,give me great pleaser to go by them on there horses with outsiders looking at me with a moose quarter on my buds back and me caring the moose rack :lol:.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Maybe the thing to do would be ask him. I fail to see where anyone said he took no Rams. I think he actually took a couple. What the statement did say was he had 6 hunts before he shot one he was satisfied with, guess his standards might be higher than yours.

That's what I said in the first place. Send Dave a PM.

I said personally that "I" would be leary. It was MY opinion...for me.....but I don't know personally any of the GOs. DH does. He would not have gone back if he felt he was getting a tour.

Sorry that this thread has gone sideways.

SSS

[bridger]

Just goes to show us that we will never win the fight against the anti's and others with statements like this. Putting me out of a part time job will not hurt me as I have a full time job and just guide for the fun of it. Not to many jobs out there that you can get paid for doing something you really love.

95% of those who I guide are blue collar workers who have saved and saved to do a once and a lifetime hunt. I sure hope they keep injecting their $$$ into our economy, because right now we need all the help we can get. Campbell is not helping us any.

But with the NIMBY's like this, who want it all for themselves and be damn to the outside world, I have to ask how many sheep do you need to kill to be satisfied that you have enough, or do you dislike a little competition with somone who paid to hunt a sheep and helped put food on the table of a guide, a wrangler, a cook and who knows who else.

I do not agree with most allocation processes, but my understanding is that a lot of G/O got cut way back on their sheep quota, which should allow the NYMBY's to go kill a BIG RAM and still be happy.

Is hunting not about enjoying the outdoors and just being out there???? The kill is just a bonus and if you get lucky enough to kill an animal, all the power to you to show it off and be proud of it. You are pretty lucky to just be able to hunt sheep with an OTC tag. Most places it is a draw system.

Good luck on the sheep hunt and make sure you post up the ram you shoot:-D.

Cheers

SS

guide outfitter quota's are being cut back in stone sheep areas as most of the quota's were set years ago when we had a much higher sheep population that we do now. yes we are lucky that we can hunt with over the counter sheep tags and we are fighting to maintain that opportunity. on that note it is important to realize that non resident sheep quota's are set at a higher per centage of the harvest in bc that any other state or province. in most states non residents get a maximum of 10% sometimes 5%. in bc guides get between 20 and 40% seems the non resident is also lucky. "how many sheep does a resident have to kill to be happy?' is a question guides always at the conference table and at the same time will take a non resident and get him a sheep every year as long as he pays the $30,000 fee. Seems it is morally justified to harvest lots of rams as long as you pay an outfitter.

[silvicon]

I hunt and guide for more than 20 years and have no sheep, GB, WT, CB and still be happy.
I do not know of one non-resident hunter that pays $30 000 every year to hunt sheep. never mind kill one every year as some airheads state on this forum.
what do you guys want?
free guided hunts without a kill limit?
gut-shooting moose cows,
shooting caribou in closed areas and mystaken them for (closed) elk cows?
(yes, I witnessed such an incidence, guys got 6 month)

be happy with what you have and get, it could be much worse!

in region 5, excessive high # of wolves kill the moose and reduce deer herds.
the management refuses to do any wolf control ecxept reducing outfitters moose quotas.
reducing MD to one buck is not the end of your world.
if you need meat take a spike, if you want a penis extension go out and look for a 200+ buck.

[bridger]

I hunt and guide for more than 20 years and have no sheep, GB, WT, CB and still be happy.
I do not know of one non-resident hunter that pays $30 000 every year to hunt sheep. never mind kill one every year as some airheads state on this forum.
what do you guys want?
free guided hunts without a kill limit?
gut-shooting moose cows,
shooting caribou in closed areas and mystaken them for (closed) elk cows?
(yes, I witnessed such an incidence, guys got 6 month)

be happy with what you have and get, it could be much worse!

in region 5, excessive high # of wolves kill the moose and reduce deer herds.
the management refuses to do any wolf control ecxept reducing outfitters moose quotas.
reducing MD to one buck is not the end of your world.
if you need meat take a spike, if you want a penis extension go out and look for a 200+ buck.

you must live deep in the woods!

[boxhitch]

Looks to me like Desert Bighorns are the true Rich mans sport in NA. Here's an excerpt from a online source I found. Prices are from 2007/2008 and do not include licence, tag or trophy fees (maybe $5,000-20,000 depending on outfit and species). Oh and airfare not included as well.



1. Dall Alaska/Wrangell-Nutzotin 7 days/Aug-Sept $12,000 Glenallen Grizzly,Wolf
2. Dall Alaska/Brooks (ANWR) 8 days/Aug-Sept $12,900 Deadhorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
3. Dall Alaska/Wrangell-Nutzotin 10 days/Aug-Sept $12,000 Tok Wolf
4. Dall Yukon 10 days/Aug $15,500 Whitehorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
5. Dall Yukon 10 days/Aug $11,700 Whitehorse Caribou, Grizzly, Wolf
6. Dall N.W.T./MacKenzie Mtns. 10 days/Aug CAD $19,500 Norman Wells Wolf, Wolverine
7. Stone B.C./Kechika 14 days/Aug-Sept $24,000 Prince George Caribou, Moose, Grizzly, etc.
8. Stone B.C./Cassiar 14 days/Aug-Sept $26,000 Whitehorse Caribou, Goat, Wolf
9. Stone Yukon/Central 12 days/Aug-Sept $26,000 Whitehorse Moose, Caribou, Grizzly, etc.

10. Stone B.C./Skeena Mtns. 14 days/Aug-Sept $25,000 Smithers Goat, Moose, Grizzly, Wolf
11. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn B.C./E. Kootenay 10 days/Sept-Oct $22,000 Cranbrook Elk, Deer, Black Bear
12. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Alberta/Brazeau River 14 days/Sept-Oct $23,000 Calgary Elk, Wolf
13. Rocky Mtn. Bighorn B.C./Kootenay 10 days/Sept-Oct $20,500 Cranbrook Elk, Deer, Black Bear
14. Desert Bighorn Baja (South) 10 days/Dec-Mar $45,000 La Paz


15. Desert Bighorn Sonora 10 days/Dec-Mar $60,000 Hermosillo Mule Deer, Coues Deer

-NWT Dalls are high because of the quality and high success rates. Could be higher, but are kept in check by the lower priced hunts.
-Alaska Dall's are lower due to competition for bookings. Not all hunts ae equal value.
-Mexican Desert prices have come down some due to increase population on both sides of the border, IIRC

[boxhitch]

Sheep hunting is one of those things that the price of which has FAR outpaced inflation. This will either continue or there will be a major correction, more likely the first option. In 10 years look for $80,000 sheep hunts.Every year there is an increase, there is resistance to it, tougher bookings. The clientel changes as the pockets have to get deeper. As long as there are followers of the Grand-Slam Club and the likes of SCI there will be collectors making attempts at Stone's Sheep. The true-at-heart U.S. sheep hunter will be happy with a draw for Bighorns or another Dall trip in Alaska.

The demand for International sheep has gone up too.

[silvertipp]

Hunting sheep does not need to be a ritch man sport
ther is no justification for such high prices its all BS the only reason they are priced that high is simple rich forenors are willing to pay whatever they want
Packers dont charge any differant for elk moose or sheep
there is alot of good sheep hunting within a short hike of many rds
for the residant hunter
there is also places to rent pack horses to get you in all at very resonable rates,forget the g/o do it on your own its way more rewarding

[willy442]

Hunting sheep does not need to be a ritch man sport
ther is no justification for such high prices its all BS the only reason they are priced that high is simple rich forenors are willing to pay whatever they want
Packers dont charge any differant for elk moose or sheep
there is alot of good sheep hunting within a short hike of many rds
for the residant hunter
there is also places to rent pack horses to get you in all at very resonable rates,forget the g/o do it on your own its way more rewarding

Silvertip; The prices you are refering to are for nonresidents. People that cannot legally hunt with packers or off of the highway. The costs of these nonresident hunts is something you have no idea about as shown in your post. They have no other option but supply and demand setting the price. As the guide quota's are reduced the price will go up and there is hunters out there that will pay it. Yes the BC resident can hunt these sheep off of the highway as many have. Hence the reason success doing this reduces every year. Next to that is backpacking, river boats and packers depending on what you choose the price differs all considerably lower than the nonresident fee. The G/O can take a resident out for alot less, simply because the resident can buy an over the counter tag and his taking a sheep has no effect on the guides quota. Many are serving the resident hunter now and most likely will continue to do so. The Guide is very good at determing if a resident hunter is booking because he wants a sheep or if he's booking to learn the country and bring his buddies the following year. The resident view and approach to this could be the determining factor on if you see sheep or go for a trail ride.

[houndogger]

A partner and I went in for dalls 4 years ago. With ferrys gas a few hotels flew in and out of Atlin. It cost us just under 1200beans each. I am thankful I am a resident of BC cause I would never be able to pay 30k for a sheep hunt.

[silvertipp]

willy your obviosly pro guide acording to all your post,the average working man with a family can still put a good payment on his house with what you will charge him for a resident guide further more his success rate is dependant soley on what the guide thinks of him as you have already stated & you seem to think that is working with the resident hunter what aload of crap

[houndogger]

willy your obviosly pro guide acording to all your post,the average working man with a family can still put a good payment on his house with what you will charge him for a resident guide further more his success rate is dependant soley on what the guide thinks of him as you have already stated & you seem to think that is working with the resident hunter what aload of crap


I don't think you are getting willy's point. These outfits cost millions to buy. Everyone knows the best place to hunt stones are in BC. If you are looking for world class moose you go to yukon alaska. How many sheep hunts would you have to sell to pay off 1.5 million. Even if the operating costs were nothing it would still take along time. Sheep hunting has always been a rich mans sport. Unless you live in BC! You are one of the lucky ones like the rest of us;) If the hunts were 100000 it would only be better for all us residents would it not?

[silvertipp]

Lets say every thing els you guide for covers all your cost wich im sure it dioes & than some 10 sheep hunts & your well on your way to paying off your 1.5 mill whats the average number of sheep tags alotted to a guide
and this still does not explain the lower rate of success for resident hunter

[wideload]

silvertip what the hell are you tryin to say?

[houndogger]

Lets say every thing els you guide for covers all your cost wich im sure it dioes & than some 10 sheep hunts & your well on your way to paying off your 1.5 mill whats the average number of sheep tags alotted to a guide
and this still does not explain the lower rate of success for resident hunter

You will have to ask GG for numbers I don't guide sheep.

When I went on my dall sheep hunt we flew in dropped gear on the beach. Later that afternoon the outtfitter came over in his boat. Asked where we were headed, up there. Ok I won't send any of my guides up there. He said he had a camp over there and another will go over there. Residents over there and there. Good luck! I thought he was curtious. Had to come off the mountain two days early as partner had knee trouble. Asked if he would radio phone the plane for us. No problem:lol:

The main thing as why they are so successful is they hunt the same area year after year. All the guides talk about what they saw over there over here,year after year. Not to mention all the plane rides in and out. You look out the window to don't ya:lol:

[silvertipp]

your not reading it right Both guided hunts the non resident sucess rate is always higher than the resident & what province were you hunting in

[willy442]

Lets say every thing els you guide for covers all your cost wich im sure it dioes & than some 10 sheep hunts & your well on your way to paying off your 1.5 mill whats the average number of sheep tags alotted to a guide
and this still does not explain the lower rate of success for resident hunter

Silver Tip; Again by your own post you have no idea what you are talking about. Being the normal run of the mill uninformed resident hunter, you are shooting your mouth off with, by your own words, no idea what operating costs are, permit numbers and success rate.
No as a matter of fact I'm not pro guide. Realistic, with my own beliefs and opinions yes. I'm also very sure that a resident that honestly books a guided hunt with a licenced G/O will have damn near the same success rate as the nonresident or even better.:(

[bridger]

In one sense it is no one's business what an outfitter charges for a sheep hunt on the other hand when it is necessary to adjust non resident sheep quota's the first argument from the g/o's is that the non resident will pay a lot more than residents and use the economic argument against residents. I remember being at meeting on sheep hunting one time about three years ago where a representative from FNAWS publically stated that outfitters in BC were not charging enough for stone sheep hunts and that they should charge at least $50,000 the same as desert sheep. I really wonder how many non resident sheep hunters are working stiffs that save their money for 10 years. I think the non resident sheep hunting community is pretty much made up of high rollers. Suppy and demand will continue to set the price of a sheep hunt, but if you want to know the true value of a sheep hunt to the average non resident change the way the quota's are distributed. now non resident quota is given to the g/o for basically nothing and they sell it to whom ever will pay the price as they control the availability of tags. Put the non residents on leh and give the tag to the hunter and let the hunter negotiate the price with the outfitter. I would bet my best saddle horse that the price would be adjusted fairly quickly. would that be the best thing to do? I don't know but I'm betting it would certainly change the argument that more sheep should go to the non residents because of economics. it would also put more money directly into the government coffers if they charged say $150 in US funds for each non resident leh application like they do in the western states.

[willy442]

In one sense it is no one's business what an outfitter charges for a sheep hunt on the other hand when it is necessary to adjust non resident sheep quota's the first argument from the g/o's is that the non resident will pay a lot more than residents and use the economic argument against residents. I remember being at meeting on sheep hunting one time about three years ago where a representative from FNAWS publically stated that outfitters in BC were not charging enough for stone sheep hunts and that they should charge at least $50,000 the same as desert sheep. I really wonder how many non resident sheep hunters are working stiffs that save their money for 10 years. I think the non resident sheep hunting community is pretty much made up of high rollers. Suppy and demand will continue to set the price of a sheep hunt, but if you want to know the true value of a sheep hunt to the average non resident change the way the quota's are distributed. now non resident quota is given to the g/o for basically nothing and they sell it to whom ever will pay the price as they control the availability of tags. Put the non residents on leh and give the tag to the hunter and let the hunter negotiate the price with the outfitter. I would bet my best saddle horse that the price would be adjusted fairly quickly. would that be the best thing to do? I don't know but I'm betting it would certainly change the argument that more sheep should go to the non residents because of economics. it would also put more money directly into the government coffers if they charged say $150 in US funds for each non resident leh application like they do in the western states.

I think anyone trying to change the way the quota system works for the nonresident right now, would be in for the fight of thier life with the G/O's and Government. At present the resident can't get the guides to agree on any fronts. Why would you want to open up this kind of battle, reducing the dollar figure on our sheep. Remember the Sheep don't belong to the resident hunter alone, others also have joint ownership. I'm sure they want the best dollar they can get. Reducing the price now to win on something so small is not good business. I fail to see what this would gain anyone but the nonrsident. Let me remind you the tags are tied to the licence and also the area. Would you give them up?

[willy442]

You will have to ask GG for numbers I don't guide sheep.

When I went on my dall sheep hunt we flew in dropped gear on the beach. Later that afternoon the outtfitter came over in his boat. Asked where we were headed, up there. Ok I won't send any of my guides up there. He said he had a camp over there and another will go over there. Residents over there and there. Good luck! I thought he was curtious. Had to come off the mountain two days early as partner had knee trouble. Asked if he would radio phone the plane for us. No problem:lol:

The main thing as why they are so successful is they hunt the same area year after year. All the guides talk about what they saw over there over here,year after year. Not to mention all the plane rides in and out. You look out the window to don't ya:lol:

Most would not have approached the G/O in fashion that would even present the opportunity for the same kind of dialouge as you had. There is too much of SSS's attitude out there that the G/O is the bad guy. I know in the later years of our guiding, we had a few horse outfits come into the area. Most stopped in at the mainlodge before hand and asked permission to come through our gate to access the packtrails. On every occassion, they were helped with trail locations etc. We did request that they not interfere with our clients and we would give them the same respect. There was also a couple of groups that tried to go around the ranch gates, by passing us, to those we were'nt as friendly.

[silvertipp]

willy the problem for the resident hunter is that he has the oportunity to return to the guided sight on his own in years to come
you said by your own mouth that it is up to the guide to decide wether he will actually take them for a hunt or a trail ride i know of several people that ddnt get there sheep the first year & maybe the second the elk they gat nno problem you say maybe its a shity quide well big nine has been around for quite awhile
now you post this bullshit comment that resident guides have the same chance if not better than non resident

[bridger]

i didn't say I was trying to change the way quota was issued. if we did however, I am well aware of the reaction from the goabc. government I am not so sure. leh for residents would bring more money directly into the governments revenue stream. the backbone of the goabc's arguments for a larger share of the pie has always been based on three tenets. 1) we are canadian businessmen with famlies (true in the old days today i am not so sure) 2) we provide a lot of employment (seasonal and at a lower pay scale than other industries many assistant guides now come from out of province) 3) and the big one sheep, elk, and moose sold to non residents are worth more than those taken by residents. My point in the earlier response was that the guides get those big prices for sheep because the quota system gives them a price set by monopoly not free market. which in turn adds fuel to their economic value argument. crunch the numbers and i think you will agree that the governmnet would get more direct money from a non resident leh system that guide controlled quota. that is my only point in the discussion. if we want to maximize the return to our coffers that is one way to do it. not saying it will happen or if I would even advocate it. just the other side of the economic argument.

[bridger]

put a mark on the wall for this one! I am acutally going to agree with willie! the few outfitters and there are only a few that i know that activley take resident hunters treat residents with the same respect they treat their non resident clients. not everyone resident or non resident gets a sheep every time. I would imagine tho that as in any business certain long time clients may get preferential treatment, but that is true in my business and others as well. the whole contentious issue of allocation would calm down if the moe would acutally implement the allocation policy we recently negotiated. I have never gone on a guided hunt in bc but i have in the nwt and the yukon. As a canadian paying in canadian funds I was treated equally to americans paying in american funds. I had three sucessful sheep hunts and three great times as well.

[goatdancer]

Silvertip; The prices you are refering to are for nonresidents. People that cannot legally hunt with packers or off of the highway. The costs of these nonresident hunts is something you have no idea about as shown in your post. They have no other option but supply and demand setting the price. As the guide quota's are reduced the price will go up and there is hunters out there that will pay it. Yes the BC resident can hunt these sheep off of the highway as many have. Hence the reason success doing this reduces every year. Next to that is backpacking, river boats and packers depending on what you choose the price differs all considerably lower than the nonresident fee. The G/O can take a resident out for alot less, simply because the resident can buy an over the counter tag and his taking a sheep has no effect on the guides quota. Many are serving the resident hunter now and most likely will continue to do so. The Guide is very good at determing if a resident hunter is booking because he wants a sheep or if he's booking to learn the country and bring his buddies the following year. The resident view and approach to this could be the determining factor on if you see sheep or go for a trail ride.

If a resident hunter books with a guide, that guide should make every attempt possible to find a sheep for the client. After all, the client has paid for a hunt, not a trail ride. Anything else is fraudulent behaviour.

[houndogger]

i didn't say I was trying to change the way quota was issued. if we did however, I am well aware of the reaction from the goabc. government I am not so sure. leh for residents would bring more money directly into the governments revenue stream. the backbone of the goabc's arguments for a larger share of the pie has always been based on three tenets. 1) we are canadian businessmen with famlies (true in the old days today i am not so sure) 2) we provide a lot of employment (seasonal and at a lower pay scale than other industries many assistant guides now come from out of province) 3) and the big one sheep, elk, and moose sold to non residents are worth more than those taken by residents. My point in the earlier response was that the guides get those big prices for sheep because the quota system gives them a price set by monopoly not free market. which in turn adds fuel to their economic value argument. crunch the numbers and i think you will agree that the governmnet would get more direct money from a non resident leh system that guide controlled quota. that is my only point in the discussion. if we want to maximize the return to our coffers that is one way to do it. not saying it will happen or if I would even advocate it. just the other side of the economic argument.

Their number 2 argument is a rather silly one. Believe me I would be far better off staying at work if it was about money:lol: Don't always make a good tip. Alot of the tips don't impress the wife. Look high tec Bino's, another bow:lol:

[boxhitch]

your not reading it right Both guided hunts the non resident sucess rate is always higher than the resident & what province were you hunting in


i know of several people that ddnt get there sheep the first year & maybe the second the elk they gat nno problem you say maybe its a shity quide well big nine has been around for quite awhile
now you post this bullshit comment that resident guides have the same chance if not better than non resident
always higher ? more fiction. Who would even keep info on that sort of thing ?
Theres not an outfit in BC that has 100% success for sheep, for any client.
Going on a hunt and not being successful?? Boohoo, thats hunting. The loosing hunter will always blame something on his poor times.

[houndogger]

your not reading it right Both guided hunts the non resident sucess rate is always higher than the resident & what province were you hunting in

BC8-) I can't afford guided hunts:lol: I wouldn't hire a outtfitter in my own province as I have alot more time then money, and I don't have alot of time. So what does that tell ya:wink:

[bridger]

Their number 2 argument is a rather silly one. Believe me I would be far better off staying at work if it was about money:lol: Don't always make a good tip. Alot of the tips don't impress the wife. Look high tec Bino's, another bow:lol:

what can i say to a logical response like that if you are ok with working for low wages while international hunting companies sell a sheep for $39,000 (that really costs them nothing in comparison) my hat is off to you. you will always have a job.

[houndogger]

what can i say to a logical response like that if you are ok with working for low wages while international hunting companies sell a sheep for $39,000 (that really costs them nothing in comparison) my hat is off to you. you will always have a job.

No worries don't guide sheep:lol:

[Hotshoe]

Bridger,
There happens to be lots of young sheep fanatics out there that don't live in B.C. and the only way they can feed the fever is to come to B.C., Yukon or N.W.T. and guide. The wages are irrelavant along with who the actual owners of the area are, in most cases your first year guide would be willing to do it for zero dollars, their "pay" comes in the form of the experience and opportunity. Later on, after a few years are under their packs, then good ol' money and politics tend to have more of an influence.

[bridger]

I really have no problem with guides coming from out of province. a canadian is a canadian as far as those things go. other industries have employees from all over canada and the guiding industry should be no different. I just get fed up with the goabc basing every arugment on economics and how much money they bring into the province. young guys who would guide for the fun of it are real