Babine Goat

[Bowtime]

I was just looking in this years LEH synopsis and noticed that Babine Goat has gone from 25 tags to 13. Now this is upsetting to me because I had attended a few meetings to discuss LEH permits and this was not brought forward. Another example of the resident hunters becoming more restricted while the outfitters tags stay the same. There are hundreds of goats in this range. If anything our tags should be increasing. Does anyone know why this has occured?

[kgriz]

If I was to hazard a guess..I would guess that the nanny numbers shot by residents was considered too high....this would not effect the numbers allocated to the guides as they are usually quite a bit better at things like counting annuli and judging sex than simple hunting residents! Hah:p

Really though, good luck in find the "real" reason even from people "in the know" as all it takes is one squeaky wheel at some PAG type meeting and things can be changed or maybe somebody was somebodies drinkin buddy...who knows.

[PGK]

How many outfitter tags were there last year? How many this year? Let's not jump on the bandwagon just yet, maybe?

[Bowtime]

I believe the outfitter takes 3 a year. It is possible that it was because there was a few Nannies taken. But there is nothing wrong with taking out some dry Nannies.

[boxhitch]

But there is nothing wrong with taking out some dry Nannies.

How do you tell ? Tough to judge a dry nanny. Just because she doesn't have a kid at the side has nothing to do with her ability to bear young. That is a poor strategy.

[boxhitch]

this would not effect the numbers allocated to the guides as they are usually quite a bit better at things like counting annuli and judging sex than simple hunting residents! Hah:razz:

IF the ratios are poor
IF the AAH is reduced
IF the Allocation Policy is being followed
The quotas for both groups will go down. Its in the math.

Is reg 6 on the program?;)

[PGK]

There is no such thing as a dry nanny. The older a nanny is, the better she is able to produce offspring.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

There is no such thing as a dry nanny. The older a nanny is, the better she is able to produce offspring.

This is very true to a large degree, one of those hunting "myths". In some goat poulations nannies only have kids every few years, so just because she is dry one year does not mean she is not still productive. Not to mention kids are lost prior to hunting season due to natural mortality. I would say it is virtually impossible to decide if the nannie standing in front of you is no longer productive, and not valuable to the population.

Back to the original poster, I would surmise that the lowering of LEH authorizations is not due to any over harvest but due to resident success rate. But why guess, just phone the local MOE branch. Speculation, fear mongering, and assumptions are common place here, best to get the info from the people who make the decisions.

[ElkMasterC]

The term "dry nanny" or "dry doe" developed as a description of her milk-producing status. Like a cow, a goat or deer will stop producing milk if they have lost their young, as there's no need.
For some reason, people have interpreted this as "dry womb", and an inability to produce young. That trait doesn't get passed on very well, for obvious reasons.
Just because a female has lost her young to an accident, fall off a cliff, vehicle, predators, disease, poachers or hunters, does not have any bearing on her ability to produce healthy young in the future.
If she produces inferior young, those genes get bred out pretty quickly.
Let's please drop the "Dry Doe" and "Dry Nanny" BS.

And as for shooting nannies;
Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

[PGK]

Female deer fecundity (the ability to successfully produce offspring) decreases with age (typically). Female goats do not. They are an exception to the rule. Also, if memory serves, as nannies get older, they produce more male offspring. More old nannies = more billies.
Stop shooting nanies!!!

[behemoth]

Kids have a high mortality rate because of the steep terrain. Their knowlege of the safest routes and trails is learned from the oldest Nannies. Without them, the kids are lost on the mountain and missteps are more likely to occur resulting in death

This is one of the main reasons your shouldn't shoot nannies

[GoatGuy]

Also, if memory serves, as nannies get older, they produce more male offspring. More old nannies = more billies.

I wouldn't rely on that as 'fact'. If you're going to you might as well conclude that <2% of any goat population can be harvested and those can only be <3 yrs old.

[GoatGuy]

IF the ratios are poor
IF the AAH is reduced
IF the Allocation Policy is being followed
The quotas for both groups will go down. Its in the math.

Is reg 6 on the program?;)

All good questions...................... the answers are out there somewhere. Might as well ask about grizz and sheep up there while we're at it. Oh and moose too.

[BCrams]

I'l take a wild swing at it........Region 6 = renegade :lol: