Questions on bear prints and shot placement

[kastles]

I think I have read somewhere on here that you measure the size of the print and then add one to get roughly how big a bear is. Is this correct? I had sights on a bear but could not pull off a shot. The prints measured in at 5".
Shot Placement: would a 180gr 30-06 RemCorLokt penetrate a bears skull at 100 yards? Would it be an advisable shot? thanks

kastles

[Gateholio]

Inches Across the front pad print +1 gives you a ballpark of the length.

The bullet will penetrate the skull, but it's a poor, low percentage shot. Aim right behind the shoulder, 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the chest.

[todbartell]

head shots can work great, but they're not the best option in my opinion. As for the size of the track, Ive been told a 5" front pad track of a black bear would be roughly a 5' bear, and a 6" grizz track would be a 7' bear.

[Steeleco]

I asked the same question last year, I found a 6" front paw print and was told it was close to a 7' bear. And in reg 2 no less.

[hunter1947]

Take the shoulder shot for sure.

[Mik]

Q1;Yes, as said before, it is a rule of thumb.
Q2; It is not recommended to shoot any bear in the skull as bullets have been known to "ricochet" off with absolutely no penetration.( and if you do, you will not be able to score it as the skull would be damaged), Definately shoot for the shoulder/leg area to bring him down,as I have read that a bears heart beats a lot slower so the bear will run/charge a greater distance if shot there.

[kastles]

Ya I figured the head shot would be a bad idea, thats why he is still out there. Right now I am hopeing work slows for the next couple of weeks so I can get out there.

kastles

[KodiakHntr]

Have heard the pad +1 = length thing a lot, but after measuring a couple dozen or so dead bears and their pads, I've come to the conclusion that pad + 1 can be close, some of the time.

Black I shot last year had a 4.25" wide front pad, but squared 6"8".....

And have seen a few that had 5" pads, that went 5'......

Its a crapshoot, but pad + 1 seems to work more often than not. (Or pad + a half....)

[leadpillproductions]

ive heard a bears heart beats every 12 seconds on a b bear just what ive been told

[todbartell]

Take the shoulder shot for sure.

good shot but not something I would attempt with a 180 gr CorLokt bullet. Behind the shoulder is the better option for that bullet which is not constructed well enough to consistently break heavier bones and make it through with enough mass to do major damage to the heart/lungs.

[boxhitch]

for that bullet which is not constructed well enough to consistently break heavier bones and make it through with enough mass to do major damage to the heart/lungs.
Can only imagine all the wounded game left over the years by this bullet. Probably the most used round in existence.
But then agian, bears are tougher these days..........

[boxhitch]

Its a crapshoot, but pad + 1 seems to work more often than not. (Or pad + a half....)Especially when talking about the one that got away :)

On a couple of bears I've seen the pad+1 would fit for the mature boars, but not so for sows or smaller boars. It is a crap shoot.

Remember too, the track size will be different than the relaxed paw of a dead bear.

[todbartell]

Can only imagine all the wounded game left over the years by this bullet. Probably the most used round in existence.
But then agian, bears are tougher these days..........

I did not say it would not work, I said it isnt the best choice for consistently breaking heavy bone. Any bullet which does not have any sort of design to control expansion other than jacket thickness will sooner or later turn itself inside out.

[mgnm300]

i'm surprised why so many of you think of taking the shoulder shot when you should be thinking of the neck shot, when you try going thru the shoulder all you're doing id ruining all the good meat. yes it will also slow it down and get the heart or lungs but as usual the bear will run up to two hundred yrds.
i don't know about you guys but i myself don't care to look for a bear in the thick bush of bc after i've shot one assuming it's dead.
plus the idea of trying to drag that dead weight out of the bush would be hell as far as i could tell.
every bear i've shot and my kids have shot have bin the neck shot at under 100 yrds and they drop dead right in their tracks. the best part about the neck shot is you either hit him or it's a clean miss with no second guessing as to wether you hit him or not
drive right up to it and gut and load with no dragging involved.
in my honest opinion,,that's the best way to hunt them

[canuckjgc]

At 100 yards with a scoped 30.06? Head or neck shot for sure. If you can't make that shot then go home. There is no way a 180gr 30.06 will "bounce" off a bear skull at 100 yards -- it will blow its brains out.

I suspect all the "bouncing off" stories from decent caliber rifles were clear misses.

[Gateholio]

i'm surprised why so many of you think of taking the shoulder shot when you should be thinking of the neck shot, when you try going thru the shoulder all you're doing id ruining all the good meat. yes it will also slow it down and get the heart or lungs but as usual the bear will run up to two hundred yrds.

TWO HUNDRED YARDS????

I've never seen a bear with blown out lungs/heart/shoulder go more than a few yards...Mostly less than 20.



every bear i've shot and my kids have shot have bin the neck shot at under 100 yrds and they drop dead right in their tracks. the best part about the neck shot is you either hit him or it's a clean miss with no second guessing as to wether you hit him or not

Or you blow off it's jaw, or tear a chunk out of the non vital part of his neck, or blow off his nose....

Properly executed, head and neck shots put down animals dramatically, but compared to the chest area, the head and neck is a much smaller vital area that moves around quite a bit.

[mgnm300]

i'm afraid gatehouse ,,,that not ONCE has there bin a jaw or any part of the head bin hit by me or the kids! if you're less than a hundred yrds and you're rifle is in and you have a good rest you will knock the bear down every time!the neck is a pretty big target between the head and shoulders with a scope. also it don't matter what part of the neck you hit,,,it either get's the main artery or the spine and either way the bear is done immediately
also if you don't get both lungs i\m afraid that bear will go forever!!!! i've witnessed that happening by someone who did try for the shoulders

[Barracuda]

TWO HUNDRED YARDS????

I've never seen a bear with blown out lungs/heart/shoulder go more than a few yards...Mostly less than 20.




.

The blackie from last spring was shot through the lungs and large exit holes out the back and it travelled a great deal of distance.

I could physically put my hand into the lung cavity through the holes.
One wouldnt have thought a blackbear would have done what this one did but it sure did.

. Never seen one travel with both shoulders blown out though.

i never worry too much about the meat loss .
If the animal was smaller by the amount of meat loss folks claim(and very often exagerate) a person would most likely still take it.

[180grainer]

Best shot for a bear is quartering away with a well constructed bullet. Through the heart lungs and hopefully breaking the aft shoulder. The richcette mentioned earlier usually applies to Grizzly as their skull is shaped different, and it only applies to a face on shot. A head shot on an animal of any kind is irresponsible. Ample opportunity to miss or blow off his jaw makes it a silly shot.

[Camp Cook]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/506/BlackBearShotplacment.jpg

[boxhitch]

Great pic there, CC. From a website ?

[olharley guy]

Did you draw these pictures? How come There is no dark spots/target areas on the head? Must mean something! LOL Later

[boxhitch]

i'm surprised why so many of you think of taking the shoulder shot when you should be thinking of the neck shot, .......

........every bear i've shot and my kids have shot have bin the neck shot at under 100 yrds and they drop dead right in their tracks.

the best part about the neck shot is you either hit him or it's a clean miss with no second guessing as to wether you hit him or not
.......IMO this is some of the worst advice I have read on this site.
"hit or clean miss" ?? Don't eat that, its horseshit.
The reason no one else talks about it is because it is such a high-odds risk. A miss may certainly involve other parts of the anatomy that may not cause sudden death, but a slow agonizing one.
Lots of animals are wounded and lost, when trying for a large target like the heart/lungs, so why try a shot at such a small kill zone as the vitals inside the neck area ?
If you can find an anatomiacal chart showing the location of arteries and spine inside a bears neck, amongst the meat and fat and larynax, to prove your theory, I might be convinced. Until then, knowing what I do about the critters, I will believe this is a very poor choice for a clean kill.

[Seabass]

I have always gone with the shoulders/lungs on a bear. This spring I put a 420gr bullet thru a bears shoulders @ 40yrds offhand. The bear colapsed on the spot. Now I know knowone here talks about personal misses but I know I sure have made a couple, and thats aiming at the boiler room. Taking head or neck shots is less than ideal and just increases ones chances of a miss or wounded animal. With a good rest and lots of time a hunter sure can kill an animal with a head/neck shot. This fall I shot a whitetail buck in the noodle at 20yrds with a 300win mag. But i felt at 20yrds I was close enough to make the shot:-P, (I don't make antler soup:-P). But really, how often do hunters take a rushed shot, running animal, offhand, etc. Be safe, go with the biggest target.;)

Cheers

Seabass

[Fisher-Dude]

good shot but not something I would attempt with a 180 gr CorLokt bullet. Behind the shoulder is the better option for that bullet which is not constructed well enough to consistently break heavier bones and make it through with enough mass to do major damage to the heart/lungs.

So I guess the 700 lb elk that I shot thru both clavicles (all he would give me for a shot) with a 175 gr Core Lokt must have been a lot softer than a 400 lb black bear. Bullet was recovered against the opposite hide with a perfect 1.8 mushroom.

Yeah, a $30 box of bullets will never kill a black bear. :roll:

[kgriz]

I think a VERY important factor impacting shot placement is if there is a good cover of SNOW for tracking. If there is no snow....I would opt for a shoulder shot on anything other than a Bison followed up by a shot in the lungs. I've never shot something in the front shoulder that didn't either drop over clean or at least provide another shot for the lungs. My advice would always be use a large caliber and shoot until they are dead and not moving.....some lost meat is a small price to pay vs a lost animal especially in the mountains....a good lung shot animal can still run a long ways sometimes...often into spots that are or close to impossible for retreival.

[rollingrock]

TWO HUNDRED YARDS????

I've never seen a bear with blown out lungs/heart/shoulder go more than a few yards...Mostly less than 20.

.

:p There was one I shot had both lungs and one shoulder blown out made me climbing up and down for four hours in steep shite till one o'clock in the morning to locate him. And this guy ran 60 meters before he climbed another 30 meters of steep cliff and travelled at least another 30 meters. BTW I wasn't tracking on blood drops but blood pool on every step he made.

[kgriz]

Obviously every shot animal acts differently....what I hate is the statement....It should be a good clean one-shot kill.......What makes that better??? What about a good shot followed up by another....often if one shoots quickly after the first instead of using their trigger hand to pat themselves on the back for such a Great shot , you can get more than one into the animal and help to ensure that they remain where they were shot.:idea:

[Gateholio]

]
i'm afraid gatehouse ,,,that not ONCE has there bin a jaw or any part of the head bin hit by me or the kids!

If a [hunter takes a head/neck shot and the animal runs off, never to be seen again, the hunter really doesn't know if they have blown off a jaw etc. The only way to be positive is if all your bears have dropped on the spot.



if you're less than a hundred yrds and you're rifle is in and you have a good rest you will knock the bear down every time!the neck is a pretty big target between the head and shoulders with a scope. also it don't matter what part of the neck you hit,,,it either get's the main artery or the spine and either way the bear is done immediately

As I said before- head and neck shots kill dramatically, but if you don't hit the right spot, you risk losing the animal. I've taken head and neck shots, but I don't recommend them as a high percentage shot.



also if you don't get both lungs i\m afraid that bear will go forever!!!! i've witnessed that happening by someone who did try for the shoulders

If the person was unable to connect with such a biog target as the lungs, how do you think they would have fared on the much smaller neck target?

[Gateholio]

The blackie from last spring was shot through the lungs and large exit holes out the back and it travelled a great deal of distance.

I could physically put my hand into the lung cavity through the holes.
One wouldnt have thought a blackbear would have done what this one did but it sure did.

. Never seen one travel with both shoulders blown out though.

i never worry too much about the meat loss .
If the animal was smaller by the amount of meat loss folks claim(and very often exagerate) a person would most likely still take it.

I like low shoulder shots if I can get them. I still have never seen a black bear go 200 yards after a solid hit that removes both lungs.:p

Even the bear I shot with the wee little .223 never made it more than a couple of stumbling steps before going down...

Meat loss is subjective- Do you want to lose a few pounds of stew meat or lose the whole animal?

[todbartell]

So I guess the 700 lb elk that I shot thru both clavicles (all he would give me for a shot) with a 175 gr Core Lokt must have been a lot softer than a 400 lb black bear. Bullet was recovered against the opposite hide with a perfect 1.8 mushroom.

Yeah, a $30 box of bullets will never kill a black bear. :roll:

If you read what I wrote again, you'd see I wrote about the CorLokt being a less than consistent bone breaker. I never said they wont kill animals. A Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX, or similar premium controlled expansion bullets will hold together well enough during tough terminal resistance to break bone and keep on truckin'.....and Id also say that bears have harder bones than ungulates.

BTW you should reload, then for $30 per 20 rounds you could load better ammo :-P

[snareman1234]

I have yet to shoot a bear,
But i have shot lots of deer, and a moose,
I always shoot them in the lungs/heart and they dont go more then 50 yards.

however I hear bear are different, when I find my bear this year I plan on taking a shoulder shot, however I heard of a friend who shot one in the shoulder, and it didnt break bone just went through meat and the bear didnt drop for a LONG while, it was a long tracking day

[Fisher-Dude]

Id also say that bears have harder bones than ungulates.


Pffffft! An elk's clavicle is about 3 times the size and twice as thick as a bear's. Good luck with that theory!

I don't use regular Core Lokts much anymore, but they've always done the job well from the 308, 7mm mag, and 300 mag. I've killed about 40 animals with them, all with good results. My dad killed many more elk and moose with 180 gr Core Lokts in the 308. They work very well for inexpensive bullets - better than any POS Explodomatic Partition! ;-)

[todbartell]

They work very well for inexpensive bullets - better than any POS Explodomatic Partition! ;-)

Since you've been using Cor Lokts and other Remington factory ammo options for years, I am sure your exploding Partition experiences come second hand.

[Fisher-Dude]

Since you've been using Cor Lokts and other Remington factory ammo options for years, I am sure your exploding Partition experiences come second hand.

My hunting partner uses Partitions. We've killed lots of animals together. I spend a LOT of time carving bloodshot messes off the animals he blows to smitherenes with those damned things.

Too bad he has 4 boxes left, 'cause he says he can't justify switching to Remington Ultra-bondeds until his Partitions are gone. :-?

Maybe I should loosen his scope screws when he's not looking, and suggest a trip to the range to see how our guns are shooting? :-P

[todbartell]

Partitions do tend to open up quick, so the entrance side can suffer some meat damage. Hopefully the carving does not involve the hind quarters.....:lol:

[6 K]

the best part about the neck shot is you either hit him or it's a clean miss with no second guessing as to wether you hit him or not


Not to throw fuel on the fire but, this simply isn't true. Yes, I agree that if you hit the neck well it is very obvious. I think you will agree that there is a margine of error that can result in wounded game. Slip one thought the the trechea with out hiting a major artery or vein and you have a disapearing bear that does not look or bleed like a hit animal. I had a horrible experiance with a two point buck on the QCI that dropped like a stone untill I grabbed his antler. I could not let go due to the thick terraine. So I had to hold him ( bucking, kicking, pawing, jabbing, and GURGLEING but not bleeding very much at all) with one hand, load and shoot my rifle with the other. I accutually felt that bullet strike and exit. Had I been much younger/inexperianced it would have been the end of my hunting days forever. Personally I choose not to take head or neck shots anymore unless conditions are perfect and no other shot is presented.

[snareman1234]

I grabbed his antler. I could not let go due to the thick terraine. So I had to hold him ( bucking, kicking, pawing, jabbing, and GURGLEING but not bleeding very much at all) with one hand, load and shoot my rifle with the other. I accutually felt that bullet strike and exit.


maybe it was traumatizing for yea, but it sure would have been a good video!

[aletheuo]

Reading Flowers' "Education of a Bear Hunter" right now - he shot over 1000 black bears in his career as a professional bear hunter in Washington State. He used a 270 most of the time and, reading his stories, he had a low percentage of bang flop harvests (1 in 10 maybe). More often than not they ran into the thickest of thick brush or down to the bottom of the canyon and died under a log or something equally challenging to get them out. He found that even a heart shot bear can travel 200 yards.

When he started trapping he dispatched them with a .357 to the head from 10 feet. On a couple of occasions he found the bullet to knocked the bear unconcious - and one more occasion where they were cleaning the bear and as his hand was in the chest cavity he noticed the heart still beating.

It's a great read.

[Bow Walker]

Just for informational purposes, here's a diagram that every bear hunter can find useful - if only as a reminder.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Bear_Anatomy.jpg

It seems pretty clear that "powering thru" with a heavier bullet will not only break shoulder/leg bones but should also drive some of the bone fragments into the lungs.

The heart/lung/shoulder area is obviously a larger and more lethal area to aim at and to hit. Far less chancy than the neck/head area, IMHO.