road along westside of williston lake

[bowhunterbruce]

i have offten wondered how the road along the west side of williston lake is.has anyone traveled it all the way up to fort ware,are thier place's to get both desiel and regular fuel,what about any kind of supplies,how long of a trip is itand how long does it take,how much traffic is there in the mid to late sept time frame.whats the weather and road like at that time of year.at finally are there any good numbers of both elk and moose at the far end of the lake.

[moosinaround]

i have offten wondered how the road along the west side of williston lake is.has anyone traveled it all the way up to fort ware,are thier place's to get both desiel and regular fuel,what about any kind of supplies,how long of a trip is itand how long does it take,how much traffic is there in the mid to late sept time frame.whats the weather and road like at that time of year.at finally are there any good numbers of both elk and moose at the far end of the lake.
Where to start? Take everything you need to go up and back. Fuel, food, tools, spare tires. It would take me about 7 hrs to go up the lake from Mackenzie with my truck camper, and a trailer with quads. This is to 30km on the finlay at the Akie river. The road last I travelled it was good to the Omineca camp at 173. Kemmess ore trucks haul on this part of the Finlay. From there on it is subject to seasonal conditions, culverts washing out ect. From the old Messalinka camp in the 184's to Ingenika camp(Swanell) They call it the Factor Ross the road is not too maintained(ROUGH). From Ingenika to Ted Browne Camp the road is better. Tsey Key Dene Indian Reservation has a general store, with fuel but hours and prices are subject to local conditions. Take cash as it is accepted everywhere up there. Remember This is supposed to be a "dry" community, no booze or drugs, probably better if you don't have it with you, or at least advertise that you have it. Canfor Mackenzie is starting up the mill in July, so they will be hauling to the mill and the log dumps up there again. They haven't done any road maintenance since the mill was shut so there will be lots of road activities going on, as well as log hauling. Take a road radio with all the frequencies. You can call the Ministry of forests up there to get them. This area is in the rocky mountain trench, so expect mountainous weather. It snowed 6 inches on us the first part of Aug, so pack for everything. When I was up there we would see quite a bit of moose. Now the natives do hunt moose up there too. Seen Elk up the Akie river, as well as at the Pesika river, and the Paul river. They are up there, but the hunting is tough. Seen caribou up there, not sure if they are open? Lots of big Black bears, and LOTS of grizzlies. Check the regs to see if Dollies are open, if they are take a fishing rod. The dollie fishing is pretty good too! This is a very isolated part of the world, but worth going and exploring. If you want to talk further about it give me a PM and I'll throw you my Phone number. Moosin

[Riverratz]

Access FSR from Hwy 97 at Windy Point just south of Mackenzie junction intersection. Road is open and regularly travelled all the way to Ingenika and Ware. No services, need to be self contained. 4-6 hr. drive from hwy 97 to Ingenika River depending on conditions. Last fuel is Windy Pt. Hunter traffic heavier closer to hwy. and lessens the further north you go. Weather can be anything from sunny/scorching hot to freezing with snow. Main Road is generally open to allow access to/from Ingenika/Ware, barring any unforseen washouts, heavy snowfalls, etc. Elk are scattered, reasonable moose hunting. No logging up there for years now, so access off main road may be limited if not impossible. Check regs. re hunting in 7-39 - requirement to check with native band offices, etc. Note quad restrictions. General feeling amongst most people is that hunters are not welcome in the Ware/Ingenika traditional areas.

[stonecrazy]

I heard some horror stories about the natives in the area stealing stuff from camp and ruining equipment but other than rumors no real info on the area. I talked to a hunting buddy about the area and he had mentioned that stuff like that can happen up there. just bring lots of fuel with you. should be good hunting though.

[kbb]

one night, we shot at in our bunkers. Did alot work up there. Be careful where you set up camp, don't want your camp raided by two legged and four legged animals.The cost of fuel in ingenika is very exspensive.
Remember the logging trucks get the right away, no exceptions.
Watch for grizzles, lots. They were in our camps daily

[Dukeofearle2000]

Hey Bruce. I took that trip two years ago. Beautiful country and contrary to what we had heard we had no trouble with the natives- some interesting discussions but no trouble. Moosin's comments are pretty right on. Fuel at Tsey Key was actually cheaper then in Mackenzie. We set up at the old Fin Bow camp/airstrip. We even floated the Finlay River in an aluminum boat but then we are not too bright. Took moose and saw elk and bear but not shooters. The down side was 1] the long drive 2] too many hunters. I think we expected to have the place to ourselves but this was not the case.Great draw odds and lots of guys put it as a second choice. I will send you an email with a link to some photos.

[guest]

Years back, had a terrible experience with the natives from Inginika.
Lucky to be here matter fact, to long of story to even start ..... one thing for sure, you don't want to break down in the middle of no where. Some local loggers saved our butts!
Don't know if I would ever go back. Law enforcement s non existent in those parts.
CT

[bowhunterbruce]

it sounds like our resident hunting fraturnity must have done the native wrong somewhere back along the line. or is this where all the true old school natives run and hide and pretend they are still in the 1800's.dont get me wrong here as i am all for them haveing traditional grounds but with alot of what i am hearing why hasnt someone reported and had the cops and co's involved.and if they are raiding camps when no one is home well i'm sure its only a matter of time when someone hides a trailcam pointed at camp to accually put a face and or a vehicle to record all they are doing so that they do time for thier crime.i for one wouldnt hesataite shootin ,shutting up then burring anyone that threatend myself or my wife while we were doing what we truely love doing,let alone trying to steal what we have worked our ass's off for.
what about contacting the local band offics up thier ,are they even approachable,or do they all have the same mentallity towards us resident hunters.

[bighornbob]

it sounds like our resident hunting fraturnity must have done the native wrong somewhere back along the line. or is this where all the true old school natives run and hide and pretend they are still in the 1800's.dont get me wrong here as i am all for them haveing traditional grounds but with alot of what i am hearing why hasnt someone reported and had the cops and co's involved.and if they are raiding camps when no one is home well i'm sure its only a matter of time when someone hides a trailcam pointed at camp to accually put a face and or a vehicle to record all they are doing so that they do time for thier crime.i for one wouldnt hesataite shootin ,shutting up then burring anyone that threatend myself or my wife while we were doing what we truely love doing,let alone trying to steal what we have worked our ass's off for.
what about contacting the local band offics up thier ,are they even approachable,or do they all have the same mentallity towards us resident hunters.

I remember reading a story by someone on this site or the other one about being shot at (or shots over their camp) in the middle of the night and reporting it to the police and the police basically saying they should probably leave town.

The jist of the whole story, was pretty much the cops were affraid to do something about it.

BHB

[Riverratz]

Refer to last year's hunting regs., Region 7A, page 72 "Notice to Hunters". There are instructions to contact the band office,with names and numbers of those to contact, before your hunt. There is no mention of what the ultimate response or results of that contact might be. For many years now, the general perception has been that the native population in that area do not welcome hunters, or for that matter, outsiders of any kind, into what they regard as their traditional lands. The history is long and no doubt there are arguments for or against this situation.

Historically the area has been policed by the RCMP. For many years the detachment at Tseh Keh, (which was basically a converted mobile home), was manned by RCMP members from Mackenzie who rotated in and out for a few days at a time, access by air. This was a crude and minimal situation. Approx. 10-15 years or so ago, some of the native locals lobbied for a permanent detachment that would be manned 24/7. The RCMP started construction of a permanent detachment. At or near completion, the newly constructed building, not yet occupied, was mysteriously destroyed by fire. It was subsequently rebuilt and has since remained to this day, although it is more like a barb wired bunker than a building.

There are 3 (perhaps 4) permanent members stationed there, tasked with policing 10's of thousands of square miles of country. As with anyone else in any other profession, they are entitled to their time off, holidays, etc. They don't work 24/7, despite the fact that some people seem to think that they should. The receive no benefits or extra's for their time and dedication to job conditions that very few, if any, would tolerate or work under. Their lifeline to the world is by radio. Their only source of contact to the outside world is via satellite, and that only came to pass in the past few years.
There are two ways to access the area; a day long , life-risking, arduous trek on a road that is barely better than a cattle trail, or by aircraft.
This is isolation.......they live and work in conditions that are barely beyond what one would experience in some third world country, including the risk of being taken out at any time by some demented lunatic, all without the benefit or support of 1000's of back up units or air-strikes.
They aren't there on a 7-10 day vacation to enjoy the wilderness and solitude.
Once every month or so, for a day or two, they get to drive out to Mackenzie or PG to get their grocery shopping done, hair cut, and remember some semblance of civilization. They don't have the luxury of heading to the corner store, downtown for some entertainment, or returning to their cozy condo or house in some suburban metropolis.

Imagine for a moment that you work in a business with only three employees. The business requires that 1 or 2 or you be gone from the office on outside duties. Now imagine that one of them is gone on holiday, and the other is sick or injured. You are tasked with being out on calls and being in the office to attend to all that is required there. You can't simply call in outside help, because it doesn't exist. How do you do it?

This isn't rocket science. Blaming the members who have, in most cases voluntarily, taken on the responsibility of an utterly impossible situation is not the answer.

The situation in terms of MOE and the Conservation Officer Service is no better, if not worse.

This is an area that has barely progressed beyond what was experienced there a hundred years ago. Who is responsible for this situation is a debatable subject. There are no doubt some good people there, but as with anywhere else, there are also the bad. It is supposed to be a "dry community", but drugs and alcohol are smuggled in on a regular basis. There is no quick fix, and nothing is going to change in the short term.

Are you legally entitled to go there to hunt ? Yes you are.

Are you legally entitled to walk around in the seedier sections of some urban center ? Yes you are.

Are you legally entitled to partake is some life threatening sport or pastime ? Yes you are.

Should you do any of the above ? You decide. It's called "risk management"

[bowhunterbruce]

great input river and i thank you,its accually refreshing to hear about the detacthment up there and there is no doubt in my mind that they have thier work cut out for themselfs.
your right there are good people everywhere in this world and yes the bad ones always seam to stand out more then the good ones and i'm pretty sure the police up there know exactly who the jerks are as they deal with them on a pretty regular basis.
i do have a friends from many different bands from all over the province and in fact my father was made a blood brother to a squamish band member who, when he passed away i was commissioned to build his musolieum.
as i said originally that i agree with them haveing thier traditional land in which to hunt and do believe that if they do indeed still live thier 1800's way then im pretty sure they would tie up a moose and an elk if i showed up with a couple bins of apples and peachs and gave them a gift to distrubute amoungest the whole band.
when we first moved up to the okanagan ,the squamish band would send up a couple trucks with salmon in them for us to give away and in return we let them have all the apples in our 5 acreas.better yet the woman would pick the apples and me and dad would take the men out hunting.more then one year they went home with 4 or 5 deer in thier trucks as well.by the way do you have any idea how hard it is to get rid of 2 bins of sockeye when you hardly know anybody in a new town,man we were rotateing fish in and out of the freezer every day for a week just to keep everything frozen and fresh.
the 2 nd year we were much better prepared though and had everyone thier when they arrived and they had all the apples picked before the band members even arrived.the barter system really works.
anyways this has been abit of an eye opener and im going to be doing a little researsh and see if anyone i know ,knows anyone up thier. its not that big of a world after all, and i believe that everyone always wants to be a good person and do the right thing.

thanks again river, you enlightened me and reminded me of my past
bruce

[guest]

I know guys that have had repeated moose success in 7-39 and 38 and had minor trouble. But my experience years ago with 5 adults and 2 kids was actually quite frightening. I could not believe the way they acted in front of the children, some parents, or elders ... what ever ! Terrible examples for the young ones. Then hours later a truck full of drunk younger males came to finish they're work.
We are very grateful to the local loggers who truly did save our bacon, blocking them from pursuing us further. Very Scary !! Was a very long ride back to camp !
CT

[Camp Cook]

If anyone is in trouble up there and can get to 185klm on the road from Omineca camp to the Messilinka River my buddy lives there year round on Bonnie Lake.

His name is Werner and he is married to one of the local native ladies Rosie, they will look after you and help you out just tell them that Cam told you to stop in and they will do what ever it takes to help you out.

Werner loves company but do not let Rosie see that you have any alcohol with you she will go on a binge if she can.

You can take Werner aside and ask if you can offer her a beer but that is it never offer hard stuff, Werner doesn't drink.

Don't worry about the locals stealing your stuff they do not want to get caught with it worry about them coming into your camp and busting everything up though...

If you do have problems giving the locals a couple beer will get them to help you out and wow some of them are scary looking dudes these guys will drive 4 hours for 6 beer and when you hand them the beer it will be downed as fast as they can guzzle them.

Myself I always hide that I have booze and only drink out of a Tim Horton's coffee cup with the lid on and told everyone that I do not drink so sorry no booze for you... :biggrin:

I've been trying to call Werner on his satt phone for a snow/road report but have not been able to reach him I'll try again tonight.

The road to Fort Ware is actually classed as a hwy and is plowed year round it isn't in the best of condition but it is plowed.

CC

[pmj]

Wow. All this free advise....
-hunters not welcomed
-great draw odds, ...lots of guys put it as second choice
-the RCMP operate out of a building that is more like a barb wire bunker, live and work in conditions barely above a third world country with a risk of being taken out by demented lunatic.
-it is a dry community
-bring beer if you want the locals to help you.
-they won't steel your stuff, just bust up your camp.

bowhunterbruce,
you plan on ;
-posting a trail cam to catch the camp raiders (and their trucks with out licence plates).
-giving them a couple of bins of apples, peaches and a gift to distribute amongst the whole band in exchange for a moose and elk,
-you will shoot and shovel any one who threatens you.

I am not sure if you are being serious...If you decide to go I was going to ask you to post a trip report when you return but I think this should make the 6 o'clock news. Just post the date you are heading up.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/images/smilies/new/popCorn.gif
I have also read that armed stand offs are not uncommon if you run into a camp raiding party. May be check some of the military forums to see what you should pack with you:wink:.
Good luck,
Paul


General feeling amongst most people is that hunters are not welcome in the Ware/Ingenika traditional areas.


too many hunters. I think we expected to have the place to ourselves but this was not the case. Great draw odds and lots of guys put it as a second choice.


or is this where all the true old school natives run and hide and pretend they are still in the 1800's. why hasnt someone reported and had the cops and co's involved.and if they are raiding camps when no one is home well i'm sure its only a matter of time when someone hides a trailcam pointed at camp to accually put a face and or a vehicle to record all they are doing so that they do time for thier crime.i for one wouldnt hesataite shootin ,shutting up then burring anyone that threatend myself or my wife


For many years now, the general perception has been that the native population in that area do not welcome hunters, or for that matter, outsiders of any kind, into what they regard as their traditional lands.

The RCMP started construction of a permanent detachment. .... although it is more like a barb wired bunker than a building.
This is isolation.......they (RCMP) live and work in conditions that are barely beyond what one would experience in some third world country, including the risk of being taken out at any time by some demented lunatic,

It is supposed to be a "dry community", but drugs and alcohol are smuggled in on a regular basis.




Werner loves company but do not let Rosie see that you have any alcohol with you she will go on a binge if she can.

You can take Werner aside and ask if you can offer her a beer but that is it never offer hard stuff, Werner doesn't drink.

Don't worry about the locals stealing your stuff they do not want to get caught with it worry about them coming into your camp and busting everything up though...

If you do have problems giving the locals a couple beer will get them to help you out.... these guys will drive 4 hours for 6 beer....
CC


i'm pretty sure the police up there know exactly who the jerks are as they deal with them on a pretty regular basis.

im pretty sure they would tie up a moose and an elk if i showed up with a couple bins of apples and peachs and gave them a gift to distrubute amoungest the whole band.
bruce

[moosinaround]

Bowhunterbruce, It is beautiful up there, and worth a trip up to see this part of the world. How any situation comes to be will have to be delt with at that time. I have found that sticking to yourself, being self reliant, and camping, leaving as little of an impact as possible is the way to be successful. What ever your decision is, good luck. I can only relay to you my experiences, and again if you are interested PM me and we can disscuss it further. Moosinaround

[Camp Cook]

Werner told me about the issues with camps being busted up and he has been up there 20 or so years, I never had it happen to me and I have spent a lot of time up there.

Being that I always had my cowboy hat on and a s/s Ruger Bisley Vaquero 45 Colt in a leather cowboy holster whenever I had a visitor/s in my camp was always a bit of good humour and the word got out pretty fast that I had a dry camp ;) so they didn't waste their time with me.

Never know maybe Werner & Rosie got the word out to the family to leave me alone.

Here is a little tidbit for you the highest murder rate in Canada are in the villages at the north end of Williston Lake.

Both of Rosie's sisters murdered their husband in drunken rages and I met another guy that was on bail for beating up then repeatedly driving over a guy that raped his sister... :shock:

Not a nice group of people...

Here is another tidbit that I learnt if you have a vehicle coming towards you on these back roads I recommend that you drive as if the driver of that on coming vehicle is drunk or stoned out of their minds might just keep you alive... :biggrin:

[bowhunterbruce]

hey moosin you know already from previous posts of mine what i am hopeing to achive and what exactly i am looking for with the wife.when i accually do make a decession as to where i will definatly get ahold of you.
i am pretty certian that going up there would be a great experience and as long as the insurance is paid up on all the gear, well if anything were to accually happen with camp,they might just be doing me a favor lol.joking of coarse.
im a pretty good people person and have delt with a very vast array of people including drug addicts and acoholics as i have been clean now for 14 1/2 yrs now from drugs.yet i am around people that use almost on a daily basis if not everyday.so i feel pretty good about being able to understand and work with what ever the moment brings forth.
i honestly never antisipaded this kind of responce about this area and in fact i am accually surprized that this is going on here in bc yet at the same time, what do the youth of these native bands have to do for excitment and entertainment,not too much from what i know other then learning the ways of the land and to the new aged youth they want to be a part of what the rest of the world is doing ,seeing as this is mostly out of thier reach then they will just find thier own mischievious ways to have thier own kind of fun and this may be at the hands of others.
they are being taught to protect and live thier way of life and all thier forefathers and elders no doubt have tried to install that its this way that is the best way for thier future to never let go of thier past.
unfortunatly a few of them take the protecting part literally and probably even sub-consciensly when they are out looking for something to do.i'd bet dollars to donuts that most of them have even heard stories from thier dads /uncles/cousins while they were young and the camp raids they did all the while laughing and haveing a good time reminising.so as the kids get older they too go looking for the same fun.this is a circle that would be almost impossible to break.
i mean what do teenagers in bigger cities do for fun.what did those of us do when we didnt have any cash to go anywhere .sure a few of us found constructive ways and means to go out and entertain ourselfs and even some of us went out and vandelized things/stole cars and went joy riding until we were out of gas then went and stole some gas to carry on haveing fun. others maybe even went on to become career criminals.
the bottom line im thinking is that it all boils down to what values were installed in us all at a young age, makes everyone who they become.
maybe it would be a better idea to take the tourist approach for this piticular area huh :D

[arcadia]

I flew over Williston Lk. once up to Davis river inlet on the east side. There was good fishing and the trout and arctic greling went after anything. We ran out of tacke so we used fish eyes from the fish we caught and that worked okay. We had black bears in our treeplanting camp at night. I watched em from the tent window. My foreman finally killed one.

i drove all around the Messilinka Ossilinka area got lost and ended up at trappers cabin. He had homemade wine in a great big new plastic garbage can. You just pushed your cup into the old orange slices and peelings and you came up with some nice dry wine wine- a bit cloudy though. That trapper was sure happy to see visitors. I sure saw a lot of BC in my treeplanting days.

[recoil]

I was thinking of heading up last year but after hearing horror stories i am glad i did not have the time to head up. An RCMP friend was offered a position up there but declined as he had doubts also about safety, they promised him that if he survived he would be promoted upon return.

Has anyone explored the area by boat, particularirly 7-37? Is it safe to leave your truck parked at the launch on the east side of the lake north of Mackenzie, i belive its called Finlay bay?

[Camp Cook]

I've talked with the RCMP in the area quite a bit they have no real problem and commented that they very rarely if ever feel threatened they all get along with the locals.

I think the key is to be a presence there and not push to hard and they are fine.

If your refering to driving around the north end of the lake past the village that is actually the worst area up there it is a dead end and their back yard there is only one way in or out and they like to come in to do their afternoon/evening hunts they don't normally hunt the mornings because they don't get up until late.

If the logging camps were running then you could leave your vehicle there and not have a problem but I believe all of the camps are shut down right now.

You could put in at Omineca Camp and run across the lake I have an 18' Harbourcraft and if I ever took it up there I wouldn't have a problem running across the lake, it is a big lake though and the waves do come up when it's windy.

I've seen lots of cariboo tracks on the east side... :wink:

[guest]

We used to hunt it by boat, we would park on the west side near Meselinka narrows. The lake can get very rough and a number of tugs have gone down with loss of life. There used to be a lot of dead heads in the lake and we would always change out props. A jet drive would be best. Always an adventure. We would get our moose though, I personally would not go any where near Inginika, the head of the lake .... not again.
Bad attitude people up there, sure wouldn't want to count on them for help.
CT

[Philcott]

This has been a very interesting read about the area. I knew nothing of the troubles people have had in there.

[BCrams]

I've seen lots of cariboo tracks on the east side... :wink:

That would be elk tracks wouldn't it! :D

[Rackmastr]

I guided in that area for 2 years and only had one minor problem in all the time I was there....

Went into Tseh Key to get some snacks and smokes for the hunter, and ended up leaving with 2 flat tires. Although frustrating, not something that was a HUGE suprise and also our camp had several spares around so it wasnt a huge deal. We limped home with one flat and changed it out.....

I have ran into other native hunters in that country and had good conversations with them and enjoyed a tea with them, but for the most part didnt see much of them in all the time we were up there. Did run into the RCMP 5-6 times along the road and had a quick chat with them as well.

Amazing game populations with great grizz, moose, caribou, blackies, etc....

[Camp Cook]

I spoke with the CO and showed him a picture of the tracks and he confirmed there were actually cariboo in the area this was 4 years ago now so who knows maybe they have been shot out by now.

The scare stories are just to keep most of you guys out of some of the most beautiful remote country in BC there are already too many hunters in there... ;)

Sometime this year I am going to be prospecting in the Williston Lake area and will also be on a treasure hunt, I have been privy to a buried treasure story.

App 55 years ago an old prospector/trapper left his extremely remote cabin buried his revolver in a bucket of grease near his cabin and left his rifle in Fort Graham that is now 200 - 300 feet below the surface of Williston Lake.

He came out to Prince George and while he waited for his flight down to Vancouver had a visit with 2 of his friends one of which told me this story the other has now passed on.

During the visit he told them where he had left his firearms unfortunately for him while in Vancouver he got sick and died.

The 2 fellows due to the inexcessibility of the cabin never had a chance to get into it to look for the revolver so it is possible that it is still buried there.

There are now logging roads into the area so this year being entrusted with the GPS coordinates I am taking in a metal detector and hopefully find that gun.

I will then pass it over to the fellow that told me the location and he will give it to the museum in Prince George.

The history in those hills is so much more than any of us could ever dream... :cool:

[moosehunter21]

As previously mentioned a bush radio is a necessity up here. So I got the radio frequiencys for ya if you are interested:
Krause(Ingenika)- 151.5950
Mackenzie Road(Slocan, Canfor)- 151.6250
Abitibi Road(Donohue, FFI) /FNFI- 151.1150
Cheni Gold Mines Road (Kemess)- 151.9250

Those above will be the main ones you will use.
You might also want some logging ones/ truck company that uses the road alot and for active cut blocks if/when they go back to logging for here in Mackenzie

Lomak- 150.9350
Duz Cho- 153.1250

Hope this helps

Russ.