Ranchers unable to understand reduction in deer harvest

[dana]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/bc_cariboo/williamslaketribune/opinion/letters/43839437.html

Ranchers unable to understand reduction in deer harvest


Published: April 28, 2009 8:00 AM


Editor:
I certainly concur with Jacques Drisdelle and Michael Fowler re mule deer regulations (Tribune, April 16).
As ranchers we are completely unable to understand a reduction in the deer harvest.
All the ranchers I talk to are overrun with deer, and have been for the past several years. They have hundreds of deer on the spring and fall pastures. Grazing the pastures as they are going into the winter or beginning to regrow in the spring seriously depletes the reserves in the roots, thereby reducing the yield and weakening the stand. In addition, the explosion in the deer numbers has led to an accompanying explosion in the wolf and cougar numbers.
Members of our local cattlemen’s association feel that for each of the last three years they have suffered about a seven per cent loss in calves turned to range as a result of the wolf predation.
Local ranchers have had goats, geese, and sheep taken by cougar. One rural resident had a cougar attack their dog as he was sleeping on their back step.
Another hunting issue that should be re-examined is the bear hunt. Since a permit has been required to take a bear and hunting pressure has declined they have been losing their fear of man.
Our neighbour was pursued by a black bear the other day. Fortunately for her, she was riding her mountain bike downhill instead of uphill and was able to outrun it.
It is only a matter of time before someone isn’t so lucky. It is great to have wildlife but if we are to co-exist we have to be realistic about the balance between them and us.
Margie Kaufman
Williams lake

[phoenix]

Most ranchers/orchardists I have met don't want you to hunt on their land till they know you really well and even then not too often so I am not surprised that they are having problems. We had all the orchardists here complaining about deer destroying the trees in winter so the government put in a special season for 1 year and the orchardists wouldn't give anyone access to where the problem deer were so the whole thing was a useless waste of time. I just hate that the government pays a lot of them compensation for losses to wildlife. I think the ranchers/farmers/orchardists that have problems should get special permits that have to be filled by legal resident hunters before they can file for any wildlife related compensation.
Kim

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Wow, she makes it sound like deer are the root cause of every predator problem.

The only thing that should matter when deciding deer harvest rules is the population of deer in a region.

I know very few ranchers in region 5 and 3 that allow hunting on thier property. I have gone door to door and asked many of them. The answer more often than not is no. Correction, the answer is always no.

If a rancher has a predator issue then they should consider a programme of increased vigilance or hiring persons to perform such task.

I have asked many ranchers for permission to hunt wolves and coyotes and once again the answer is usually no. I was willing to do it for free. I will never make such an offer to any rancher again in my life.

Ranchers love to whine and complain about deer, elk, and predators. It just seems that when a gift horse comes to the front door offering help they refuse.

From now forward I will offer my services for a fee.

[horshur]

how about you put yourself in there shoes.....some of the deer you all will hunt this fall will have been subsidized by a ranchers fields and stacks....some of the deer here localy will have died without the help.

would you allow every tom dick and harry in to hunt as well if it were yours?????
And what of favoritism...meaning if you allow one you probably should allow more right??? including ones that asked before that you would never allow... and as will..some have given permission but keep it quit.

it is not as simple as it seems...

regardless...there are plenty of deer to hunt in region 5.....

[RiverBoatFantasy]

You are correct, it can be a messy situation. Lots of full blown idiots out there that call themselves hunters.

Nonetheless, when I walk up to someone, look them in the eye and ask for permission and am told flat out no, to me it signals that there is no problem.

At the end of the day the ranchers are likely looking for compensation and the deer/elk/predators become the political bargaining chip.

[wetcoasthunter]

Ranchers love to whine and complain about deer, elk, and predators. It just seems that when a gift horse comes to the front door offering help they refuse.

Its probably a case where the "damage" done by the deer, in financial terms, is less than what they get from the government, so its a net gain for them. How else would you explain turning down guys that will reduce the "problem" for free.

[boxhitch]

Maybe there is an underlying plot.....
In the U.S. farmers can charge hunters for access to the land and to the wildlife resource that lives there.
Get enough complaints on both sides of the table here, coupled with the taxpayers money spent by Gov';t in compensation packages, and someone could launch a real argument for user-pay.
Current laws do not allow for it, and I hope things never change.

[Ron.C]

I can understand a Rancher having a case against wildlife negatively affecting his stock and wanting govt assistance, but not wanting any old joe hunting on his property. Alot of these ranchers probably get tired of getting asked for access to their land, and in this day and age, it's hard to trust people you don't know.

I know guys will jump all over this, but I don't have a problem with the idea of a Rancher accepting money for access 'lease" to hunt. But if the rancher is to do this, he should get no further assistance/compensation from the govt.

I'm not wealthy and am not able to afford to pay for such privileges, or a hunting lease, but if I did have the means, I would have no problem paying a landowner for access to a great parcel of hunting property.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

Ron C., why not just locate along the edge and be patient. I have shot many a fine buck on the property line. Once I shot one as he jumped over a fence - in mid air no less!:smile: It is a sight to behold when you smack a buck with a 338 in mid air!
Problem is, the deer get really smart and comfy within the confines of a fenced plot.

One of the biggest mule bucks I ever observed lived beside an old shack on a large alfalfa field. He used the shack for shade. The irrigation spigot was 200 yards away and the alfalfa was never cut where he lived because of rough terrain. Needless to say, I never did observe him venture off of the property.

[Jelvis]

You can't tell how many deer are in a region by the ones that live on the edges of some agricultured fields, some don't leave the ranch ever. when deer get a cougar after them they go close to a ranch with dogs cuz the dog barks and chases the cougar away. Same with bears ranchers shoot all bears they see close to their little cows.
If your a real hunter and like the woods shooting in a closed in ranch ain't going to float your boat and if it does than, it's not hunting in my opinion. It's shooting no more than that.
I would'nt go by a rancher for game analysis they are so protective of their area, they will tell you anything, I talked to a few up Durand Creek and well ah, no thanks.
Jel -- imo leave it to the biologists thats their job to drtermine this stuff.

[Onesock]

:shock:The deer and elk were here long before cows. We as bowhunters have asked permission to bow hunt on these "over run" ranches and been turned down repeatedly. I thnk the ranchers are just making noise to get subsidised further.
I am 100% against paying to hunt on some ranchers private land. If this is done we will be better off than the hunters in Europe. As for paying to hunt on lease land, it is not ranchers land to charge access to, it is public land with a "grazing" lease only.

[Gateholio]

Current laws do not allow for it, and I hope things never change.

Are you sure we actually have a law prohibiting charging for access?

[jml11]

Are you sure we actually have a law prohibiting charging for access?

Would be interested to know this as well as I have heard of ranchers in the Peace charging for access.

[sawmill]

I believe it is called a trespass fee,you can`t sell hunting rights but you can charge a fee for acsess to the property.I have seen ten thousand geese land in my buddy`s 160 acre wheat field in Beaverlodge and lay it to waste in one evening.What they did not eat was trampled to the ground.That is a pretty big investment to see Literally fly away.
I have a 172 four point from a farm out by Rolla and I would have no problem paying a trespass fee to get a crack at his offspring.Man has to make money some way.
A lot of times farmers have had a bad expierance with guys cutting fences or leaving gates open or shooting a prime little steer on the way out if they get skunked.I grew up on a cattle ranch and there is a lot of bullshit done by midnight bandits that makes you think twice about allowing guys on your land.
That said,here is a tip for all you Lower Mainland hunters,if you bring a big slab of smoked salmon to the door you would almost always get a get a positive reception.Always worked for me,a special treat that shows you have style.

[GoatGuy]

A couple of the ranchers in Region 5 are actually pretty good. There's one ranch who has a full-time employee dedicated to booking resident hunters. They want people to come and shoot deer - most don't charge an access fee.

We're killing thousands of deer on the highway up there every year - better off in someone's deep freeze than someone's car.

[6616]

I believe it is called a trespass fee,you can`t sell hunting rights but you can charge a fee for acsess to the property.I have seen ten thousand geese land in my buddy`s 160 acre wheat field in Beaverlodge and lay it to waste in one evening.What they did not eat was trampled to the ground.That is a pretty big investment to see Literally fly away.
I have a 172 four point from a farm out by Rolla and I would have no problem paying a trespass fee to get a crack at his offspring.Man has to make money some way.
A lot of times farmers have had a bad expierance with guys cutting fences or leaving gates open or shooting a prime little steer on the way out if they get skunked.I grew up on a cattle ranch and there is a lot of bullshit done by midnight bandits that makes you think twice about allowing guys on your land.
That said,here is a tip for all you Lower Mainland hunters,if you bring a big slab of smoked salmon to the door you would almost always get a get a positive reception.Always worked for me,a special treat that shows you have style.

Excellent point Mill. I was raised on a mixed cattle/grain farm in Saskatchewan and my Dad rarely turned anyone away, of course things were a lot different back in the '50s.... But the gates left open, the garbage thrown out on our land, the cut fence lines because they were too damn lazy to drive a half mile to a gate, all had the same result as they do today and many of Dad's neighbors wouldn't let hunters near their places for the very same reasons that landowners have to deal with today.

[RiverBoatFantasy]

The signs I see most these days include: " No Hunting", "No Trespassing", "Private Property", "Keep Out".

It seems to be getting more common.

Oh and lets not forget the sign: "Indian Reserve, Keep out, No Hunting, No Trespassing, No Human Entry Allowed"

Special mention given to all of the ridiculous mining area closures and access restrictions in MU 4-23. (corporations are allowed to remove mountains, fill valleys, and denude the landscape but you must KEEP OUT)

You gotta give game credit for being wise. They seem to congregate where the hunters are not allowed. Smart buggers they be.

[stalker]

A couple of the ranchers in Region 5 are actually pretty good. There's one ranch who has a full-time employee dedicated to booking resident hunters. They want people to come and shoot deer - most don't charge an access fee.


If your talking about the ranch I think you are, that would be Monica that handles the bookings. Any way the ranch that I'm thinking about tried booking as many hunters as they could for a few of years to thin out the deer. But due to stupidity and ignorance from a few hunters, they were going to be a lot more selective on who was going to be allowed to hunt on the property in the future. Here is a ranch that wants people to hunt the property and grants access to literally hundreds of hunters a year but could just as easily shut it down for anyone new who drives up to the door and asks for permission unless you have a good reference.
I've got permission to hunt on almost half of the ranches that I've asked at and I've found that one of the worst things you can do is to look like redneck rambo wearing full camo and ready to do battle, even though that's the way I walk into the bush it doesn't work when knocking on doors, and if they say no this year that doesn't mean no forever, ask again next year things may have changed

[GoatGuy]

If your talking about the ranch I think you are, that would be Monica that handles the bookings. Any way the ranch that I'm thinking about tried booking as many hunters as they could for a few of years to thin out the deer. But due to stupidity and ignorance from a few hunters, they were going to be a lot more selective on who was going to be allowed to hunt on the property in the future. Here is a ranch that wants people to hunt the property and grants access to literally hundreds of hunters a year but could just as easily shut it down for anyone new who drives up to the door and asks for permission unless you have a good reference.
I've got permission to hunt on almost half of the ranches that I've asked at and I've found that one of the worst things you can do is to look like redneck rambo wearing full camo and ready to do battle, even though that's the way I walk into the bush it doesn't work when knocking on doors, and if they say no this year that doesn't mean no forever, ask again next year things may have changed

Yeah, it's too bad. I've got a buddy who owns one of the big ranches up there. He has two trucks with bullet holes in them along with all the wrecked and ruined fences. He had some guys drive over his fence last year only 50 yards from a gate.

He said he's had enough. A little bit of respect would go a long ways with those folks - most of them are hunters themselves.

[boxhitch]

Would be interested to know this as well as I have heard of ranchers in the Peace charging for access.My point was about the fees charged for the animal harvested.
A trespass fee is allowed here.