what's harder to find than a two-point moose?

[Benthos]

many of us have shot a two point (immature moose). has anyone been lucky enough to shoot a big bull, with one antler broken off? Since this also qualifies under the 2/1 point rule, it seems like the best of both worlds.

but, it also seems like a needle in a haystack. i saw a huge bull a few years ago with one antler broken off, but, moose season had been closed for about 1 week:roll:

i'd love to see pics of successful hunters

[finish]

always pack a sledge hammer!!!

[Phreddy]

A 6 pt elk is harder to find.

[leadpillproductions]

i dont think with the antler broke off would work i wouldnt try that one

[bwhnter]

I agree with leadpill. The definition is Legal "Immature" Bull. So if you are looking at a bull that has a monster body I would not shoot it. Just my opinion. I am not sure what a CO would do though.

[Benthos]

the definition is a legal 'spike-fork' bull, not immature bull.

if you see a big bull with a broken antler, it can legally be taken under this definition

[Wild one]

My dad shot a bull with a paddle on one side and a true spike on the other for his first bull but that was before the 2 point season.

[mcrae]

the definition is a legal 'spike-fork' bull, not immature bull.

if you see a big bull with a broken antler, it can legally be taken under this definition

Good luck with that. I am not disagreeing with you in regards to the wording but you are going to be at the mercy of how the CO decides to interpret the definition. If you look at the diagram following the description in the regs it clearly shows an "immature" moose as the example. IMO not worth the hassle because I am betting you would get charged if in fact you shoot a mature bull moose with a broken antler...That is just my opinion though:biggrin:.

My first moose was a spike fork bull and it was good eating...

[Benthos]

perhaps. although i do have it in writing from a CO that it is in fact legal to take a mature bull that has a broken antler.

if somebody is willing to poach a bull and knock off an antler, they probably have more to hide than just that.


i don't think us law abiding guys will have as much of a problem. that being said, i'll wait and see what happens if i ever come across a big bull with the broken antler:lol: and get questioned by the COS

[brotherjack]

A 6 pt elk is harder to find.

No kidding!!

[killman]

I have seen more Sasquatches than 2 point moose.

[lip_ripper00]

Bull moose with one side broken off clean I would not shoot, could have been broken off sparing. A bull moose with a palm on one side and 2 forks on the other, I have taken. When bulls spar, they try to gore one another in the nuts.:shock: When one testicle is damaged it affects antler growth, making it substandard for breeding (now weak gene pool) I think this is where the confusion comes in.

[boxhitch]

The term 'immature' was dropped years ago, too much confusion maybe.

So even if at a stop, a CO thinks something is fishy about a broken antler, what can he do ? Charges won't make it to court, so maybe just a confiscation on principals ? Not likely.
Two points on one side. Clear.

[hunter1947]

Im not a sheep hunter but I would say a legal Ram.

[dave_fras]

i know a guy who had his moose taken away for having a paddle on one side... and a 480$ fine!... so i donno if its a very good idea lol

[Leaseman]

thirty five years of hunting moose, i have seen three and shot two.... all south of vanderhoof.....

To me this was a poor way of the gov't change as we found more dead moose that were 3x3 or 3x4's in the first several years of this change that were shot and left....

[Ddog]

i know a guy who had his moose taken away for having a paddle on one side... and a 480$ fine!... so i donno if its a very good idea lol

I personally have seen a picture with a CO in it and the hunter that shot a bull moose with a paddle on one side and a broken antler that made it a spike on the other.

and i am with Wayne on this, i would say a full curl ram. Although i am not a sheep hunter i know lots that have spent many of days in the field only to come up with 1 ram in the past 4 years.

[open-sights]

Have it in writing you say? I find that the hardest thing to believe yet, just getting a co to give the true definition on any number of blurred regs is tough enough.
Stick to the rules, quit trying to bend to conform to your definitions. Horseshit if you want to try to shoehorn paddled out bulls with spike/forks into the same category.

[boxhitch]

i know a guy who had his moose taken away for having a paddle on one side... and a 480$ fine!... so i donno if its a very good idea lolI hope he fought the charge instead of caving in.

[sfire436]

I shot a unicorn once that had its horn broken off, turns out it was just a horse. The farmer was pissed.

[Caveman]

I've taken 13 spike/fork bulls, have never seen a live mature bull with a broken tine, but know of two taken. Therefore, the mature bull with a broken tine would be the unicorn IMHO!

[dirtybucker]

im gonna say a 3 nippled super model is harder to find:biggrin:

[jml11]

It is perfectly legal to shoot a big bull with a broken antler making it a two-point, I have had this discussion with a CO more than once. But it better be an old break or they will question it.

Here are a couple photos of a bull I found last November. Not sure what killed it, fair ways from a road but not rulling out a lost hunter kill (gut shot?) or maybe he was in a good battle with who ever broke his antler and succumbed from those injuries or maybe wolves got him??? Certainly would have been a legal kill for any lucky hunter though.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/jflex48/PB170044.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/jflex48/PB170046.jpg

[bowhunterbruce]

in all of the 13 moose i have now got in my life, 4 of them were spike forks. its just pure shithouse luck what comes outta the bush when you hear them crunching around in the trees.i'm thinking 6 point elk are way tougher to get then a spike fork and im sure a legal sheep is going to be even harder then that.
they dont call them "swamp donkeys" because of thier brains thats for sure.

[huntinnewbie]

Bull moose with one side broken off clean I would not shoot, could have been broken off sparing. A bull moose with a palm on one side and 2 forks on the other, I have taken. When bulls spar, they try to gore one another in the nuts.:shock: When one testicle is damaged it affects antler growth, making it substandard for breeding (now weak gene pool) I think this is where the confusion comes in.

I'm no genetic engineer but I do know that the loss of 1 testicle does not and cannot alter the genetic make up of a moose's DNA. Just as in the unliklihood you should lose one you can still father children and the DNA is the same.
The only thing lacking in the bulls genetic makeup is perhaps the inability to fight very well. But then you haven't seen the other guy, maybe old 1 antler was the winner!

[Red Foreman]

An honest politician is harder to find.In fact they might very well be extinct.

[Benthos]

the regulations are black and white. there might be some sections that are a bit difficult to interpret, but regardless, there is still a right and wrong. If a CO is not willing to put it in writing for you, then he shouldn't be doing his job because he doesn't know the regulations.

I'll be carrying my email (from a CO) paper copy this hunting season and keeping my eyes open for a bull with a broken antler. i'm not bending the rules, just conforming with a loophole, intended or not. although the intention might have originally been immature, that is not what is written. obviously the CO's you have talked with don't know what they are talking about and are probably seasonal staff




Have it in writing you say? I find that the hardest thing to believe yet, just getting a co to give the true definition on any number of blurred regs is tough enough.
Stick to the rules, quit trying to bend to conform to your definitions. Horseshit if you want to try to shoehorn paddled out bulls with spike/forks into the same category.

[mark]

the regulations are black and white. there might be some sections that are a bit difficult to interpret, but regardless, there is still a right and wrong. If a CO is not willing to put it in writing for you, then he shouldn't be doing his job because he doesn't know the regulations.

I'll be carrying my email (from a CO) paper copy this hunting season and keeping my eyes open for a bull with a broken antler. i'm not bending the rules, just conforming with a loophole, intended or not. although the intention might have originally been immature, that is not what is written. obviously the CO's you have talked with don't know what they are talking about and are probably seasonal staff


If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????

P.S. Id shoot that bull with the broken points in the above pics!

[Benthos]

[quote=mark;452523]If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????


this is one of those things that is 'difficult to interpret', but there is still a right and a wrong.


spikes need to be >1inch, a calf has nubs covered with fur, not spikes

[mark]

[quote=mark;452523]If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????


this is one of those things that is 'difficult to interpret', but there is still a right and a wrong.


spikes need to be >1inch, a calf has nubs covered with fur, not spikes


Ha ha ha ha ha, you are so wrong on both statements!!!
Show me the regs! :p

Maybe you should have a browse at this thread!
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=27372

[mark]

[quote=mark;452523]If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????


this is one of those things that is 'difficult to interpret', but there is still a right and a wrong.


spikes need to be >1inch, a calf has nubs covered with fur, not spikes


Benthos (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/member.php?u=1374) http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_349103", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Prince George
Posts: 154


Re: Smallest legal spike moose????
spike-fork is a moose having no more than two tines on an antler. a tine is defined as being at least 2.5 cm tall, and is considered a branch off an antler.

an antlered animal just means bearing visible bone

however, sounds like your moose didn't have any tines, it was just an antler...

i think it was legal, even if not an inch. it was bony antler, with less than two tines

[Benthos]

[quote=Benthos;452524]


Ha ha ha ha ha, you are so wrong on both statements!!!
Show me the regs! :p

Maybe you should have a browse at this thread!
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=27372



i remembered that thread prior to writing my response as i kinda knew where you were going. but after that thread a few months ago, i had called and asked the wildlife bio who gave me this answer

"spikes need to be >1inch, a calf has nubs covered with fur, not spikes"

[jml11]

If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????

P.S. Id shoot that bull with the broken points in the above pics!


Looking forward to the new regs this summer and if they changed the definitions as they told you they would. Hopefully it clears things up.

[NaStY]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/becauseican_2007/TheCompanyTruck.jpg


My brother inlaw and his best friend shot 2 2pt moose within 20 min of each other 2 seasons ago...

[Sitkaspruce]

Spike/two points are not that hard to find. Lots around, usually see between 2-4 each season while guiding. Maybe the gene pool is all pike/two points;)

Would you shoot this bull????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/MikeMoose.jpg

For me the toughest animal to find is a non-typical blacktail. I have never seen one...yet. Theya re just not that common, not like a NT mulie or NT WT.

or how about a Side-Hill Gouger??? I have only seen one and he was moving pretty fast around the mountain;):p

Cheers

SS

[mark]

[quote=mark;452528]



i remembered that thread prior to writing my response as i kinda knew where you were going. but after that thread a few months ago, i had called and asked the wildlife bio who gave me this answer

"spikes need to be >1inch, a calf has nubs covered with fur, not spikes"

Thats the problem, you get a different answer from anyone ya talk to!
Theres nothing of either statement in the regulations, you just got someones opinion, thats all!

Sitka S..... That moose in your pic is clearly illegal as it doesnt have any visible bone on the one side, way too much on the other!

[Caveman]

If you think the regs are black and white.....tell me what is the smallest legal spike moose that you could shoot????

P.S. Id shoot that bull with the broken points in the above pics!

Here We Go Again!!!! :biggrin:

[porcupine]

A couple of seasons ago, a fellow (without a LEH) in the camp next to us shot a moose that had 5 points on one side, with the other side a broken off stub about 3" long. Afetr they left the CO's came by. I asked them if that would be considered legal as a spike/fork and they said yes.
________
U engine (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_U_engine)

[kyleklassen]

Spike/two points are not that hard to find. Lots around, usually see between 2-4 each season while guiding. Maybe the gene pool is all pike/two points;)

Would you shoot this bull????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/MikeMoose.jpg

For me the toughest animal to find is a non-typical blacktail. I have never seen one...yet. Theya re just not that common, not like a NT mulie or NT WT.

or how about a Side-Hill Gouger??? I have only seen one and he was moving pretty fast around the mountain;):p

Cheers

SSnot if i was on a guided hunt. but any other time hunting for my freezer i wouldn't think twice. thats a beauty and it only having one antler is like winning the lottery.IMO thats way harder to find than a spike bull.

[Caveman]

For those not wanting to wade through the above thread mentioned, here is an e-mail response both Mark and I got on the spike/fork definition

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email dated October 29, 2008, regarding the distinction between calf and spike-fork moose. Your inquiry has been forwarded to me for response.

It is apparent by reading the online forum that clarification of this component of the annual hunting and trapping synopsis is required. Ministry of Environment staff are aware of the issue, and will be taking steps to develop a more coherent definition for the 2009-2010 hunting and trapping synopsis.

The following provides some background on the development of a spike-fork moose season. This may give you an idea as to the direction the Fish and Wildlife Branch will go in clarification of "what is legal to harvest during a spike-fork bull moose season?".

Bull moose are a highly desired big game species. With some exceptions, any bull GOS seasons are not sustainable in BC due to high hunter demand.
When conservation becomes a concern (i.e. when demand exceeds supply), various regulations may be implemented to control the bull harvest within sustainable limits.
LEH is one mechanism to control the bull harvest, but because it limits hunter participation, it is generally least favoured by hunters.
Other mechanisms for controlling the bull harvest are antler point regulations during the GOS. Currently BC provides 3 types of antler regulations: spike-fork bull, tripalm bull and 10 point bull.
Of the 3 regulations, the spike-fork bull is most commonly used. This is because it focuses the harvest on immature (yearling) bulls.
A spike-fork moose means a bull moose having no more than two tines on one antler (see page 4 of the 2008-09 Hunting and Trapping Synopsis). A tine if defined as a branch of an antler that is at least 2.5 cm (1 inch) in length
Studies have shown that generally no more than 50% of yearling bulls have the spike-fork antler configuration. Thus, it is considered a safe regulation because it ensures that enough yearling bulls will survive the hunting season to become mature bulls.
Occasionally, a male calf moose may be observed during the fall with small "button" antlers caused by rubbing the skin and hair off the forehead. The spike-fork definition was not intended to include these calves.
Thank you for bringing this issue to the attention of the Ministry.

Sincerely,
Stephen MacIver
Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment
Phone (250) 387-9767
Fax (250) 387-0239
Email: stephen.maciver@gov.bc.ca

The one interesting point from this is the piece I highlighted. It was not the intent, but would it be deemed illegal if you shot one. Food for thought. Hopefully they address it this year!

[Benthos]

I agree it is a problem when you get a different answer from different people. hence, if i get it in writing from the CO, I keep the email and pack it with me, just in case i need it. by doing that, and you get charged, you'd likely get off as you did your due diligence by asking an official and followed what they said. but i agree with you 100%, it is a huge problem when you get a different answer from different people enforcing the SAME regulation :shock:




[quote=Benthos;452533]

Thats the problem, you get a different answer from anyone ya talk to!
Theres nothing of either statement in the regulations, you just got someones opinion, thats all!

Sitka S..... That moose in your pic is clearly illegal as it doesnt have any visible bone on the one side, way too much on the other!