Region 5 BCWF Press Release

[GoatGuy]

Cariboo Chilcotin Regional Wildlife Association (BC Wildlife Federation - Region 5)


PRESS RELEASE

Date: April 13, 2009

For Immediate Release

New Mule Deer regulations for the Cariboo/Chilcotin announced last Monday signals a shift towards fewer opportunities for BC residents to hunt for food and more options for trophy hunting.

Despite increasing Mule Deer populations in the Cariboo/Chilcotin that are causing a growing number of accidents on our highways and conflicts on agricultural land, the recently announced new harvesting regime is predicted to both reduce the harvest and shift it away from a food source for residents towards trophies for rich foreign tourists.

The Mule Deer regulations announced last week at the Provincial Hunting Regulations Review Committee and reported to have been signed off by the Minister of Environment, will take effect for the 2009 hunting season. Under the new changes resident’s hunters will see the following seasons this year. Sept 1st-30th - 4 point buck or Larger
October 1st-31st - Any buck
Nov 1st-10th - 4 Point buck or larger
Nov 11th-20th - No Open Season
Nov 21st -30th - 4 Point buck or Larger
Bag limit is 1 Buck

Up until 2008 residents of BC were allowed to hunt Mule Deer between September 1 and November 30 and were allowed to harvest two deer. The only restrictions during this period were four point buck or larger seasons between September 1st to 9th and November 21st to the 30th.

“These are the most restrictive Mule Deer regulations we have ever seen in the Cariboo and would seem to be custom designed to discourage BC residents from harvesting deer for food and combined with the fact that all Moose are on Limited Entry Hunting, leave the bush empty so that rich tourists can have a greater opportunity for a ‘Quality Hunt” and kill a Trophy Buck” says Quesnel resident and BC Wildlife Federation Vice-President Michael Fowler.

“Non-Residents must employ the services of a Guide-Outfitter and normally are only interested in taking home an impressive set of antlers to hang on the wall. Although provincial regulations ensure that the meat is removed to a processing facility, it will no longer be going into the freezers of ordinary BC residents.”

The membership of the BCWF sees this as one more indication of a government moving away from their promise to use the North American Wildlife Model of managing wildlife based on science to managing wildlife for political reasons. This was been recently indicated by the gutting of the Ministry of Environment’s budget. This has seriously curbed the Ministry’s ability to conduct proper species inventories and enforcement. Another example was the Government’s recent acceptance a recommendation from American environmental groups and First Nations in the Central Coast Land and Resources Management Plan to develop three Grizzly Bear Management Areas despite the advice of independent scientists that for biological reasons only one would be necessary.

The Government also agreed to limit resident harvest of Black Bears on the Queen Charlotte Islands to appease First Nations who want end Trophy Bear Hunting. It is rather ironic that the government would be attempting to create a Trophy hunt for non-residents in the Cariboo while limiting resident harvest on the QCI because of First Nations objections to an existing Trophy hunt by non-residents.

[SAVAGE300]

What a joke!!!! and ya gotta wonder why resident hunter #s are declining

[bowhunterbruce]

i really would be curious as to how much money the goabc members give to the goverment for thier so called trophy fees,is it a set number or a certian percentage.there has to be some buy off's happening in order for all this giving our resident oppertunities away.
maybe its time to bring in the ombudsman for a full study on thier dealings at the same time and in the same breath what the h*ll is the bcwf doing sideing with goabc and not for the residents.correct me if im wrong but isnt thier policies geared towards the stewardship of our resourses for our residents and not just for those putting cash in thier pockets as well.
this is really starting to become pure and utter bull****

[BCrams]

at the same time and in the same breath what the h*ll is the bcwf doing sideing with goabc and not for the residents.

If you have been following any earlier threads, the BCWF is up in arms over this, in addition to a whole other series of issues involving the provincial allocation.

The problem: Ministry of Environment and GOABC are not following the signed policy from 2007 and resident hunters are getting the shaft (have been since the 80's).

[MichelD]

Everybody should make this an election issue with their local candidate.

I did.

His response was this:

"I am a supporter of hunting in BC as an integral part of our culture. I also have to say my bias is with the resident hunter who puts what they kill in the freezer for their family.

This issue of allocation is clearly not settled even though the government thought they had negotiated a solution. "

[Angel]

Will this be a new trend for more regions or is this Reg.5 specific for now?

[bowhunterbruce]

Everybody should make this an election issue with their local candidate.

I did.

His response was this:

"I am a supporter of hunting in BC as an integral part of our culture. I also have to say my bias is with the resident hunter who puts what they kill in the freezer for their family.

This issue of allocation is clearly not settled even though the government thought they had negotiated a solution. "

what party is this responce from

[BCrams]

Will this be a new trend for more regions or is this Reg.5 specific for now?

If this goes through, wait until you see what happens to Region 3, 4 and 8.

With the influx change of hunters to the above regions, the GO's will be harping about the "quality" hunt for their clients. Pressure will be on MOE to 'fix' the problem. Voila, you have what you see happening in Region 5 to the other regions.

[Gateholio]

Time to hammer them wiht letters. The list of contacts is on the other thread. Be sure to send a letter to your own MLA, too.

[Sitkaspruce]

i really would be curious as to how much money the goabc members give to the goverment for thier so called trophy fees,is it a set number or a certian percentage.there has to be some buy off's happening in order for all this giving our resident oppertunities away.

It a set rate by the government. For each animal killed, the G/O pays the government a "Trophy Fee". It is peanuts what they pay, as it is included in the cost of the hunt. Some G/O do charge a trophy fee after the kill, but not too many. I also depends on the animal for the fee. The G/O do charge a "Hunting Preservation Fee" of $125 us per hunter that is used to lobby the government. There is a post on here asking if you, the resident, would pay a fee to the BCWF to lobby for more resident rights. Look it up.

maybe its time to bring in the ombudsman for a full study on thier dealings at the same time and in the same breath what the h*ll is the bcwf doing sideing with goabc and not for the residents.correct me if im wrong but isnt thier policies geared towards the stewardship of our resourses for our residents and not just for those putting cash in thier pockets as well.
this is really starting to become pure and utter bull****

As Rams says, check out the other posts on this topic, it has been well discussed here.

Cheers

SS

[silvicon]

the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.
considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.
next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?

[GoatGuy]

the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.
considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.
next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?


This is only a guess, but I'm gonna go with Itcha Mountain Outfitters??

[BCrams]

there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.


Whats up with the September - 4 point only season???


with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?

Would you say a manager who changes the deer season(s) 4 times in order to try and get 'trophy bucks' is good management and of which the last one was a predictable failure.......and this happening when the prior system worked (at one point held higher buck to doe ratios than right now)!

It wasn't broken to begin with until the GO's started piping up about 'quality' hunts. One needs to really question how good the manager is and where his vested interests and motives are. Right now, I can safely say they are not acting on behalf of resident hunters, nor are they practicing good deer management.

We know you have a vested interest in the GO business and its only natural for you to push the agenda which goes against the provincial allocation, as well as fly in the face of the Hunter Recruitment and Retention Strategy.

[born2hunt]

the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.
considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.
next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?
who the **** are you ? you must be an outfitter or guide in it for the money,

[Seeadler]

Nothing like keeping things simple....

[Micky Finn]

silvicon;445619 - the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.

Somehow I doubt this will be going away by spring, we have been fighting a push toward restrictions on residents hunting Mule Deer in Region 5 ever since I got involved with BCWF. I guess you don't remember the public meetings that we held in November 2005 when the CCGOA was pushing for a reduction to one Buck. That push has never stopped and has been brought up at every Wildlife Advisory Committee that I have attended before and since. I think I have only missed one since I started and that was when introduced their undiscussed Mule Deer strategy.


considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.

One Buck is going to make absolutely no difference, even the Ministry admits that only 1 to 1.5% (somewhere between 40 and 75 deer) of hunters take a second animal and some of those must be Does.

next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

Highly doubt it!!!

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?

I know that we fought for and finally got the Grizzly LEH's opened up (from 1 to 10)in the in the Bella Coola area. Not you Guiding territory, so that doesn't count. Sorry

[Gateholio]

the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.
considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.
next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?

A better question to ask is-

How will the new regs help conservation or the resident hunter?

After all, we ARE supposed to meet the needs of the resident hunter prior to non res, correct?

[bridger]

my opinion! time to quit talking. the moe especially some of the regional managers have been supressing resident hunter opportunites for years through unfair and indefensible leh seasons. they won't change as long as they are comfortable. Time to kick over the table and shoot out the lights and pick up the pieces.

[mcrae]

my opinion! time to quit talking. the moe especially some of the regional managers have been supressing resident hunter opportunites for years through unfair and indefensible leh seasons. they won't change as long as they are comfortable. Time to kick over the table and shoot out the lights and pick up the pieces.


Agreed if there isn't enough deer in region 5 for guys to take two then in my eyes there shouldn't be any non-resident harvest at all:wink:...

[oddsix]

"bag limit is 1 buck"

Does this mean only one deer for region 5, or will they have an LEH doe available to make it one buck and one doe for the season?

[BCrams]

the moe especially some of the regional managers have been supressing resident hunter opportunites for years through unfair and indefensible leh seasons. they won't change as long as they are comfortable.

Agreed. Over time, many get too comfortable.

Time for them to "buck" up (pun intended) and get with the program on allocations and hunter recruitment / hunter opportunity or let someone else who will.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

the BCWF is always whining about everything.
there is a free for all season in october where one can get a spike buck.
considering the native 'harvest' and what the wolves and vehicle kill every year going to one deer/hunter makes only sense.
next spring, this issue will be a non-issue and the professional whiners
will have found another pet beef.

why do we not hear from the BCWF regarding grizzly hunting in region 5
with such vigor as they are opposing good deer management?


Obviously, you're one of the lazy-arse GO's that Dana refferred to in an earlier post that like to sleep-in in the month of August when you should be up in the alpine watching the sun come up and shine on the red coats of some big alpine muley bucks.

The best part out about the guiding set up in the States is that there are no exclusive guiding rights for each area which creates competition from other guides.

"You snooze, you lose"

Instead it's easier to just reduce the competition from the lowly resident hunters:roll:.

SSS

[bad arrow]

Please help me to understand something, if the BCWF represents 30,000+ hunter's and there's 80,000+ hunter's in BC close to half, and they were against all this, and nobody in gov would listen? I think I'm close on the number's, that tells me that there are far greater power's at work than those with the best interest of resident hunter's. There is no way that foreigners should get any more gift's at the expense of bc and or Canadian residents, too bad the BCWF has been working hard for resident hunter's and to see them get shafted like that makes it all smell really bad. It should be proof of the clout G/O have in this province, its all about money, and the whole system from the head of the snake to the tail is guilty, it makes me want to vote for this reason alone, its udder corruption at its lowest level, and resident hunter's have been set up for this all along, and its going to spread to the rest of the province slowly.

[longleader]

Time to hammer them wiht letters. The list of contacts is on the other thread. Be sure to send a letter to your own MLA, too.

I tried to find the list, Gatehouse, but no luck yet after checking a few threads. I apologize; I haven't been folliwing the site that much lately, and obviously have missed this. I found one link :

http://www.dir.gov.bc.ca/

but didn't find what I thought I should be looking for. The local MLA is easy for me to contact, but would like to help "hammer them" as well.

Bill.

[bad arrow]

Good points SSS, also a point of fact, alot of money and opposition has come from down south to oppose aboriginal right's as well, its not all coming from resident's, for the very same reason, reduce competition from resident's and aboriginals for their own gain, turn everyone against one another then sit back and wait, that's the strategy, there's alot of money involved here. Resident hunter's are in a battle they will not win, at least not on their own. I'm not trying to bring a doomsday scenario only a realistic view of the situation.

[GoatGuy]

Good points SSS, also a point of fact, alot of money and opposition has come from down south to oppose aboriginal right's as well, its not all coming from resident's, for the very same reason, reduce competition from resident's and aboriginals for their own gain, turn everyone against one another then sit back and wait, that's the strategy, there's alot of money involved here. Resident hunter's are in a battle they will not win, at least not on their own. I'm not trying to bring a doomsday scenario only a realistic view of the situation.

Lets put it this way there are 85,000 votes who haven't been vocal and haven't contacted their MLA.

I can tell you things change when things hit the media and people voice their opinion. The grizz hunt was banned by the NDP and that was done by only a couple hundred people many of which don't even live in BC.

Get your pen and paper out and start letting the letters fly.

[bad arrow]

With respect goatguy, the whole point of being in an organization such as the BCWF is to go at it from a group approach, why individual letter's it sort of defeats the purpose IMO, but if it works, great, do it. Fact is their is no reason for the gov to listen anyways, whats the consequences for them not listening?

[GoatGuy]

With respect goatguy, the whole point of being in an organization such as the BCWF is to go at it from a group approach, why individual letter's it sort of defeats the purpose IMO, but if it works, great, do it. Fact is their is no reason for the gov to listen anyways, whats the consequences for them not listening?

votes - it's all about votes.

[boxhitch]

why individual letter's Numbers, sheer numbers. If our pile is bigger than their pile we get the attention.
You do enjoy having a voice in society, don't you ?

[Gunner]

votes - it's all about votes.And with the election coming this is the best possible time to make ourselves heard.Hit your MLA hard and often.Demand to know why G/Os are being favored by Regional Managers,and tell them that a resolution to this problem in our favour will determine your vote. Gunner

[Jelvis]

People from the states ain't comin here for trohphy mule deer or mule deer meat, use your imagination, where would you go if you lived in the states for mule deer?
Colorado has all the top B&C records recorded on rocky mountain trophy mule deer on the continent so why would you come to B.C. if you were from the usa and/or for muley meat?
Next is places like Utah, Idaho, New Mexico and so forth like Wyoming and on and on. That argument is'nt going to fly with many. It's almost useless if a person knows the deer books.
Try a different angle.
Goats, sheep, bears not deer. In Canada different cus Caribou back east black bear etc.
Mule deer no.

[boxhitch]

Jel, who do you think is keeping the deer outfitters in business ?
Many americans appreciate the atmosphere in BC, and welcome the op to hunt here, the arrangement is so different from home. Not everyone can DIY so they book hunts here. Its not always about the biggest deer for them either. Quality does not hinge on antlers.

[6616]

I'll bet there's not too many stand alone mule deer hunts booked. They're mostly add-ons to a moose, elk, or sheep hunt like Dana said. BC outfitters are missing the boat on mule deer, they could shoot bucks like Dana's Gang if they really worked at it and then the situation would even be worse for residents. The region 5 outfitters are getting the hint and if outfitters get too interested in mule deer they will be complaining for more trophy management and LEH.

You make a good point though Boxhitch, there's lots of elk hunters book hunts in BC, and BC does not produce very book elk either, but a true wilderness experience can be enjoyed (if they can keep those damned residents out of the bush).

[boxhitch]

I've shared a couple of tea pails with guys who have their jaw on the ground from the time they land.
Look at a BC Hunter or Mountain Hunter magazine and see pictures of some very nice mulies.

I'll bet there's not too many stand alone mule deer hunts booked.enough to justify the press release, though maybe not stand-alone.

but a true wilderness experience can be enjoyed (if they can keep those damned residents out of the bush).BC doesn't know what resident pressure is, let alone resi/g.o. conflict

[bad arrow]

Jel, who do you think is keeping the deer outfitters in business ?
Many americans appreciate the atmosphere in BC, and welcome the op to hunt here, the arrangement is so different from home. Not everyone can DIY so they book hunts here. Its not always about the biggest deer for them either. Quality does not hinge on antlers.
I agree with this statement, its just the tip of the iceberg anyways, a little here, a little bit there, it all adds up. Foreign hunters are great, just not at the expense of resident hunter's.

[Spampy]

The key to letters is to send them by snail mail. They are required to respond by letter and mail, so increase their work load and be heard. Send it to the opposition and politicians who you don't agree with even if it out of your area. CC it to anyone you can think of. I don't think you even need a stamp. Email is too easy to trash.

[bridger]

People from the states ain't comin here for trohphy mule deer or mule deer meat, use your imagination, where would you go if you lived in the states for mule deer?
Colorado has all the top B&C records recorded on rocky mountain trophy mule deer on the continent so why would you come to B.C. if you were from the usa and/or for muley meat?
Next is places like Utah, Idaho, New Mexico and so forth like Wyoming and on and on. That argument is'nt going to fly with many. It's almost useless if a person knows the deer books.
Try a different angle.
Goats, sheep, bears not deer. In Canada different cus Caribou back east black bear etc.
Mule deer no.

most of the mule deer hunting in the states in leh across the board and non residents get 10% or less of the tags. do the math.

[Jelvis]

brigger, So your saying that some mule deer hunter from Colorado or Utah or Wyoming or Idaho is going to pay tens of thousands of American dollars, and go through all the legalities to cross an international border with rifles and ammunition to come up to Willy's Puddle for a mule deer.
If a guy does that for a two point mule deer when he lives in the best mule deer habitat in North America then he's got way too much money and a little shy of the grey matter.
And you believe this happens a lot? Please no need to respond.
Lance ah ok.lol

[longwalk]

brigger, So your saying that some mule deer hunter from Colorado or Utah or Wyoming or Idaho is going to pay tens of thousands of American dollars, and go through all the legalities to cross an international border with rifles and ammunition to come up to Willy's Puddle for a mule deer.
If a guy does that for a two point mule deer when he lives in the best mule deer habitat in North America then he's got way too much money and a little shy of the grey matter.
And you believe this happens a lot? Please no need to respond.
Lance ah ok.lol

I'll take the bait. This past fall I watched a vidoe taken by a guide of his client shooting a two point mulie, the client thought it was the greatest thing in the world, a real trophy.... for him.

[bridger]

Surely you jest! But just in case consider this!
non resident mule deer hunters do come to bc specifically to hunt mule deer it is a matter of public record you can look it. In the peace country there are outfitters that specialize in mule deer. don't be fooled into thinking that the mule deer hunting is all that great in the states they do kill big deer but the average mule deer hunter (guided or unguided) in the states are estatic to harvest a 170 mule deer. something you can see in the peace any day in the fall. read a few american hunting mags or watch a few tv shows.

[Jelvis]

That is'nt the point - no pun intended - It's about someone from across the International Border in this case the USA, a place where mule deer habitat grows great mule deer bucks from the Kaibab Forest Arizona to Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Idaho, New Mexico etc etc would come to Region 5 just for a shot at a mule deer, going over the border with live ammunition, guns etc, getting permission and going through reems of red tape, security clearances paying for it and waiting years for it, paying for a liscensed Outfitter and room and board in the tens of thousands for a deer is like hard to phathom.
Compare it to yourself, would you go thru all that for a two point mule deer in the USA across the border? I don't tink so. Unless your ah what do you call those ah accentric or somethnig. lol.
Hey no use talking about htis forever I just can't see lots of normal people doing this ok so forget it change the subject for now.
Lance -- boring already. Move on.

[bridger]

must be a slow night in the news room! lol!

[bad arrow]

No, they will want to come and shoot a nice 4 point preferably, will settle for a 2 point, but might like to hunt moose as well, oh ya, they come from Germany too, they love to hunt.

[Jelvis]

The rich and famous -- hey if they got that much money I got the time --
send em over to Kamloops lol. Bigger bucks here than in 100 Mile anyways lol.
Germany too whoa --- vee gott veys you don like zee car, vee change da della-- lol.
Lance B.C.'s got it all so hey, can't blame em ok so your right again lol.

[dana]

Jelly,
You are dreamin if you think they are spending tens of thousands on muleys here in BC. Tens of thousands on Stones, yes, mule deer, no. Fact is BC mule deer is a damn cheap hunt. Low end is $2500 American, top end is $4500. When you get a bunch of Yanks just trying to draw a tag in the mulitiple states they put in for, it isn't rocket science to see why they might want to just go hunting in Williams Lake. Especially when they drool over all those crazy pics that BCBOY seems to post up. ;) Getting the permits to bring rifles across the border and then bringing the animal back ain't that hard.
The one and only mule deer hunt I ever guided was with 2 guys from AZ. Yup, the great and mystical land of the Strip and the Bab. They drove up. They were just tired of never drawing and wanted to hunt mule deer. Do you want to be in their shoes? We will be if the GOABC get their way. You might as well give up on the ol' Loops muleys. You have promoted it so well that you will be lookin at odds of 20:1 or worse on most Loops Units. Being you are already an old guy, you probably will be dead by the time you draw one of those Loops muley buck tags. Might as well just give up hunting altogether and hit the gym eh?

[CaribooHunter]

I live and hunt in region 5, Don't really see what the problem is other than the October 1st-31st - any buck season should be 4 point or better also. ( That should have been done years ago)

[boxhitch]

Don't really see what the problem is other than the October 1st-31st - any buck season should be 4 point or better also. Can you back that up with reason ?

Or close deer and open mice, I will still be there Oh that explains it.

[longleader]

Time to hammer them wiht letters. The list of contacts is on the other thread. Be sure to send a letter to your own MLA, too.

Well, I'll try one more time.

I anyone able to give me a hint which thread? I've tried to find it.Thanks.

[boxhitch]

The list should be stuck at the top of the forums

[longleader]

The list should be stuck at the top of the forums

Thanks very much, boxhitch.

[reach]

"bag limit is 1 buck"

Does this mean only one deer for region 5, or will they have an LEH doe available to make it one buck and one doe for the season?
Bump...

I have read all the threads I can find on this topic, and looked on the BCWF and gov't web sites but can't find a definitive answer to this question.

It is highly relevant for planning LEH entries. Does anybody know for sure? Or know how to find out for sure?

[dana]

Straight from the 09/10 LEH regs, P. 13, at the bottom of the Region 5 Mule Deer Antlerless section.


"In addition to harvesting an antlerless Mule (Black-tailed) Deer, a buck can be harvested, in
accordance with antler configuration, during the same time period as long as the regional bag limit
(2) has not been exceeded."

[reach]

Thank you. I should have spotted that. :oops:

So the regional bag limit for mule deer is still 2, but only one may be a buck if the proposed changes go through.