Region 4 changes? anyone know?

[aletheuo]

I know ppl have been discussing region 5 changes (and hard to do a search for "region 4" for some reason) Does anyone have the skinny on any changes or proposed season changes for region 4 for the coming year?

[finish]

Yup!!! They are removing ALL Elk and DEER!!!! So nobody needs to bother hunting region 4 anymore!!!!

[Jelvis]

What!!! You got to be kidding finsh, really no more deer or elk hunting in the Cranbrook area? I guess there's no use coming out to the Bull River then.
I'm assuming it's still open for sheep and bear? Thanks in advance.
It's finished according to finish!!!

[Seeadler]

Yeah right, there will be another massive winter kill before there is much in the way of changes.

[Jelvis]

Three point elk (general open season in the region) this year or not
according to Reg. a.k.a. (Raymond Roomer) 3 point GOS May B.

[aletheuo]

No spec of mulie changes? Road closure removals?

[Trapper]

This is what i've heard from a reliable source.there will be a G.O.S.on whitetail doe,a G.O.S. season on inmature bull moose,and a 10 day archery season on bighorn sheep (rams)after the regular season.remember its only hear say

[finish]

Three point elk (general open season in the region) this year or not
according to Reg. a.k.a. (Raymond Roomer) 3 point GOS May B.


I sure hope THAT doesn't happen!!!!!!!

[Jelvis]

Could be this season according to Ray, pilot project. GOS Elk 3 points --in 4
Ray does tip the wobbly's a bit tho. Lifting a few lol says their lifting quite a bit
Road closures.
Jelly-Ray-Shiras

[mark]

I sure hope THAT doesn't happen!!!!!!!

Why not finish???
The elk herd is very healthy, it would provide excellent opportunity for lots of hunters!
Do you not agree????

:lol:

[Fisher-Dude]

Why not finish???
The elk herd is very healthy, it would provide excellent opportunity for lots of hunters!
Do you not agree????

:lol:

He's afraid someone will shoot HIS elk, Mark. Let's you and me load up our quads and chase him around the backroads of Cranbrook this fall! :biggrin:

[mark]

He's afraid someone will shoot HIS elk, Mark. Let's you and me load up our quads and chase him around the backroads of Cranbrook this fall! :biggrin:

I did include a smiley!
I figure this topic is due for another go-around, see what all the new HBC'ers have to say!

[6616]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/wld/Proposed_reg_changes.html

[hunter1947]

Open season for 3 point elk in region 4-15 http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[mcrae]

Open season for 3 point elk in region 4-15 http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

They need to open it all up with a GOS not just 4-15:wink:. I would love to see a region wide elk season with a 3 point rule. The guys that want a meat bull can have a go and the hardcore guys that want a 6 point or better can still have at er...

[Elkaholic]

They need to open it all up with a GOS not just 4-15:wink:. I would love to see a region wide elk season with a 3 point rule. The guys that want a meat bull can have a go and the hardcore guys that want a 6 point or better can still have at er...


That is exactly what I think Mcrae555.

[BCrams]

They need to open it all up with a GOS not just 4-15:wink:. I would love to see a region wide elk season with a 3 point rule. The guys that want a meat bull can have a go and the hardcore guys that want a 6 point or better can still have at er...

They need to extend the 3 point across to other regions (i.e., 7A, 8 etc) as well, thus harmonizing the season(s).

Its a great opportunity to get more people buy elk tags and going hunting when they realize they do not have to wait for a 6 point bull.

The very small percentage of "trophy hunters" can still choose to hunt for 6 point bulls.

[mcrae]

They need to extend the 3 point across to other regions (i.e., 7A, 8 etc) as well, thus harmonizing the season(s).

Its a great opportunity to get more people buy elk tags and going hunting when they realize they do not have to wait for a 6 point bull.

The very small percentage of "trophy hunters" can still choose to hunt for 6 point bulls.


I think if this was done one of the benefits would also be that the hunting would be spread out province wide not just concentrated in the E.Koots. I feel it would help the elk herds greatly province wide. I drew a W.Koots LEH draw a couple of years ago and had an awsome hunt. I got myself a respectable 6 point on the 2nd day of the hunt but I also realized under the LEH system I was not likely to ever hunt those elk again....

[aletheuo]

Its a great opportunity to get more people buy elk tags and going hunting when they realize they do not have to wait for a 6 point bull.

That whole spike fork moose thing makes me think... when I go to buy my tags "I'll just spend the extra $25 on the moose tag in case I see one of these..." Another revenue grab??

[mcrae]

That whole spike fork moose thing makes me think... when I go to buy my tags "I'll just spend the extra $25 on the moose tag in case I see one of these..." Another revenue grab??

I am in the same boat but I have seen spike fork bulls every year in the areas I hunt so it will be interesting to see if its a region wide GOS or specific areas. The past couple of years I have seen them who wants to bet that with a GOS in place I don't see one ever again:biggrin:...

[BCrams]

That whole spike fork moose thing makes me think... when I go to buy my tags "I'll just spend the extra $25 on the moose tag in case I see one of these..." Another revenue grab??

Not really a revenue grab. You buy the tag and go hunting knowing you have a reasonable chance at one......

There are a lot of hunters out there who just don't bother buying an elk tag or go hunting because of the 6 point regulation.


McRae: I feel it would help the elk herds greatly province wide.

Actually, harmonizing seasons like this actually would make hunting better for those who want the big bulls while providing opportunity.

There's too much belief with hunters that 6 pt elk seasons and 4 pt buck seasons create more and bigger bucks / bulls when its been proven the opposite happens.



Need to get hunters out there and point restrictions don't help when the herds can support a season otherwise.

Its like all those "trophy - fly only - catch / release or only 1 fish limit. The hardcore flyfishers (like those trophy bull elk hunters) love it. But at the end of the day - you're not recruiting those young fishermen/women who just want to go out with their parents on a catch and bonk em fishery with a worm / bobber / gang trolls / spinners to take those 14-16" fish to brag about.

[aletheuo]

Not really a revenue grab. You buy the tag and go hunting knowing you have a reasonable chance at one......

There are a lot of hunters out there who just don't bother buying an elk tag or go hunting because of the 6 point regulation.

Seems to me that the populations should be pretty much "normal" as they are a natural occurring phenom that have yet to be hunted this way. Now, that said, I am NOT a biologist. A normal distribution would imply small numbers on both the lower and upper ends and a whole bunch in the middle (more than fork, but less than trophy-sized). ie/ below -2 for spike/forks and above +2 for grand-daddys)
http://www.tushar-mehta.com/excel/charts/normal_distribution/images/normal2.gif
Someone is welcome to put some light on this for me. The only other thought I would have is that the spike/forks are definitely more naive and so it would be easier to take one... but then again, I've yet to come across anyone who would tell you an aged bull moose is smarter than an aged whitetail buck.

[GoatGuy]

Seems to me that the populations should be pretty much "normal" as they are a natural occurring phenom that have yet to be hunted this way. Now, that said, I am NOT a biologist. A normal distribution would imply small numbers on both the lower and upper ends and a whole bunch in the middle (more than fork, but less than trophy-sized). ie/ below -2 for spike/forks and above +2 for grand-daddys)
http://www.tushar-mehta.com/excel/charts/normal_distribution/images/normal2.gif
Someone is welcome to put some light on this for me. The only other thought I would have is that the spike/forks are definitely more naive and so it would be easier to take one... but then again, I've yet to come across anyone who would tell you an aged bull moose is smarter than an aged whitetail buck.

Figured from the start of the thread it looked like somebody was out trolling...............................:roll::roll ::roll::roll:

Keep it up.

[BlacktailStalker]

The thread is about elk in 4-15, not moose somewhere else.

[aletheuo]

goatguy, btslayer
well, since finger pointing is headed my way (I started the thread - also posted the normal distribution stuff) I'll just clarify. The intent of the thread was simple curiousity (sure, trolling, if you like) to find out what proposed changes were on the block for the region. Plain and simple, I trust. Nothing to do with elk in 4-15, actually, except that is was mentioned by someone else - and it's in the region.

[GoatGuy]

goatguy, btslayer
well, since finger pointing is headed my way (I started the thread - also posted the normal distribution stuff) I'll just clarify. The intent of the thread was simple curiousity (sure, trolling, if you like) to find out what proposed changes were on the block for the region. Plain and simple, I trust. Nothing to do with elk in 4-15, actually, except that is was mentioned by someone else - and it's in the region.

If you aren't trolling you're best abandoning the bell curve when it comes to bulls or bucks for that matter to describe age. Natural and hunting mortality results in many yearlings and few 'old age' bulls/bucks. That changes depending on how heavily hunted the population is. The curve to describe it is inverted.

About 40-50% of yearling bull moose are 2 pt or less on one antler.

[Fisher-Dude]

The only other thought I would have is that the spike/forks are definitely more naive and so it would be easier to take one... but then again, I've yet to come across anyone who would tell you an aged bull moose is smarter than an aged whitetail buck.

Nope. It's the opposite. Those little guys don't rut hard like the bigger bulls, so they are actually more wary during the rut. They don't cover the many miles that the mature breeders do looking for cows, so they stay off the roads like the big boys use to cover the miles. Their vulnerability is way lower than a red-eyed cow humper.

[Fisher-Dude]

That whole spike fork moose thing makes me think... when I go to buy my tags "I'll just spend the extra $25 on the moose tag in case I see one of these..." Another revenue grab??

If you can't afford $25 to give yourself a chance at a moose, you might as well stay home all season. You'll burn $25 in fuel before you get out of the city limits most days.

[mcrae]

If you can't afford $25 to give yourself a chance at a moose, you might as well stay home all season. You'll burn $25 in fuel before you get out of the city limits most days.

My thoughts exactly if spike/fork is open in the area's I am hunting I am gonna carry a moose tag even if the odds are low I will get a crack at one. My first and only moose to date was a spike/fork and damn was it good eating...

[bigben]

On this spikeand fork horn good luck another way to create revenue and more money out of our pocket just like the shared hunt two guys get to harvest a moose but the other two guys get to participate 40 extra dollars for the goverment what about the non resident do they still get to hunt ?????

[aletheuo]

dunno - even if all 80,000 hunters spent the $25 on a moose tag, that's 2 million. Ok, so let's be realistic and say 3000*$25=$75,000 - that pays for another CO's salary here in Region 4.

Or more researchers to decide if there are enough moose to sustain the hunt. ;)

[mcrae]

dunno - even if all 80,000 hunters spent the $25 on a moose tag, that's 2 million. Ok, so let's be realistic and say 3000*$25=$75,000 - that pays for another CO's salary here in Region 4.

Or more researchers to decide if there are enough moose to sustain the hunt. ;)

I guess it will be one of those things guys will just weigh the pros and cons and decide for themselves. I would have someone kick me in the junk though if I ran across a spike/fork in the W.Koots new GOS and didn't bother to buy a tag just in case. For me its just insurance. Whatever is open I buy tags for. I always have a cougar tag as well. You just never know:smile:...

I agree though most guys will not bother...

[GoatGuy]

dunno - even if all 80,000 hunters spent the $25 on a moose tag, that's 2 million. Ok, so let's be realistic and say 3000*$25=$75,000 - that pays for another CO's salary here in Region 4.

Or more researchers to decide if there are enough moose to sustain the hunt. ;)

Like I said, a troll.

When do we get to hear about how the immature bull moose season is going to affect the 6 pt elk in the back country?

[eastkoot]

Lets just hope they reduce the bag limit to one (one elk OR one moose).. Based on current LEH rules I believe you can kill a moose and then carry on elk hunting..It shoudn't be the same bag limits if a GOS is introduced..IMHO

[6616]

Lets just hope they reduce the bag limit to one (one elk OR one moose).. Based on current LEH rules I believe you can kill a moose and then carry on elk hunting..It shoudn't be the same bag limits if a GOS is introduced..IMHO

Why? Do you think there's a potential conservation concern, or are you thinking it might allow more hunters a chance to fill their freezers if they prevent the expert hunters from doubling up?

I think we need to look at this from the perspective of how best we can have a positive impact on recruitment/retention. We probably don't want to introduce unnecessary restrictions.

[Fisher-Dude]

Lets just hope they reduce the bag limit to one (one elk OR one moose).. Based on current LEH rules I believe you can kill a moose and then carry on elk hunting..It shoudn't be the same bag limits if a GOS is introduced..IMHO

When moose was on GOS in reg 4 previously, the aggregate regional bag limit was 1 (one elk OR one moose). I'm not against the aggregate limit, IF they open elk to 3 point again.

[Jelvis]

What ah leh's are offered ah, in the Cranbrook area for elk usually, like I mean last year for instance. Is there leh for any bull elk available in Region 4, I don't have last years leh synopsis. I tried to find it on the backroom desk but somehow overlooked it or the wife tossed it into the trash by mistake.
So I was wondering is there a chance of any bull elk on leh's in the region 4 lower down towards Cranbrook area, Thanks in advance --- Lance.

[eastkoot]

I
think we need to look at this from the perspective of how best we can have a positive impact on recruitment/retention. We probably don't want to introduce unnecessary restrictions.

My taking a moose then killing an elk is being a bit on the "piggish" side don't you think?? Not to mention, if I kill a moose and can't kill an elk, that leaves an elk for you or a newbie?? Not hard to do both in a day here if you have a good day, I think you have to agree?? You have answered your own question in your post.. Why should I double up as you put it and perhaps cut a newbies chance to bag his first animal by taking another species..Conservation concerns aside, if it's all about opportunity and recruitment, the better odds we have to "kill", the more hunters will buy tags and get out there. That being said, if I leave an elk in the bush cause I shot a moose, that increases someone elses odds of killing that elk?? Another happy hunter who will buy tags and licences for next year..And that's not filling "a" freezer, that's filling 2 freezers, do you need to do that because you can and there is no conservation concern??

[Jelvis]

I'd rather get an elk than a shiras moose anyday. Not that those Shiras are not ok but elk would be preferred if I was to drive out to Cranbrook or say the Teepee area, cuz living out here in close proximety to Pg the moose have better feed and are not the smaller shiras type.
Elk is what would be preferred to many coming out from the west or south I would imagine.
Is there any size bull wapiti allowed on ahh leh in that area around Cranbrook in the past couple seasons? Thanks in advance. Lance

[rocksteady]

Is there any size bull wapiti allowed on ahh leh in that area around Cranbrook in the past couple seasons? Thanks in advance. Lance

As long as I can remember there has never been LEH on Bull Elk ( In the East Koots)...There was a 3 point or better season in the 90's, with LEH for cows or calves, but nothing for bulls. Then it was about 1995 IIRC that they changed to the 6 point or better rule.

The only other way you could get a smaller than 6 bull was to take advantage of the archery any bull goes season, which is now a "any elk" season in Zone "X" of the trench...Above 1100 m (3400 feet) it is still "any bull" during archery....Sept. 1 through 9...

[Fisher-Dude]

The last "little shiras" moose that I killed in the EK, many moons ago on GOS, was a 3 1/2 year old that tipped the butcher's scale over 450 lbs. I've only shot a couple of elk that managed that weight, only one of which was from the EK.

Given the opportunity, I'd harvest the first 2 point shiras or 6 point bull elk that I saw. ;)

Jel-belly, no any bull elk LEH in R4E.

[6616]

I

My taking a moose then killing an elk is being a bit on the "piggish" side don't you think?? Not to mention, if I kill a moose and can't kill an elk, that leaves an elk for you or a newbie?? Not hard to do both in a day here if you have a good day, I think you have to agree?? You have answered your own question in your post.. Why should I double up as you put it and perhaps cut a newbies chance to bag his first animal by taking another species..Conservation concerns aside, if it's all about opportunity and recruitment, the better odds we have to "kill", the more hunters will buy tags and get out there. That being said, if I leave an elk in the bush cause I shot a moose, that increases someone elses odds of killing that elk?? Another happy hunter who will buy tags and licences for next year..And that's not filling "a" freezer, that's filling 2 freezers, do you need to do that because you can and there is no conservation concern??

I agree, probably more chances for more people. I don't believe there's a conservation concern for either species. Just hate to see restrictions without a conservation justification.

[6616]

I'd rather get an elk than a shiras moose anyday. Not that those Shiras are not ok but elk would be preferred if I was to drive out to Cranbrook or say the Teepee area, cuz living out here in close proximety to Pg the moose have better feed and are not the smaller shiras type.
Elk is what would be preferred to many coming out from the west or south I would imagine.
Is there any size bull wapiti allowed on ahh leh in that area around Cranbrook in the past couple seasons? Thanks in advance. Lance

Are you sure those moose are Shiras, where's the scientific justification. Seems kinna funny, the biggest bulls shot in the EK usually come from the Elk Valley, well south of the so-called Shiras/Canada moose boundary. My opinion if it means anything,,,, this Shiras classification in southeaster BC is pure bullcrap.

[Jelvis]

If Hanna's dad is Billy Ray Sirus? Then those east koot's moose are Shiras ---
Jelly ray shiras. lol. Ackey Breaky Heart. 6 a one half dozen of the same --lol

[GoatGuy]

If Hanna's dad is Billy Ray Sirus? Then those east koot's moose are Shiras ---
Jelly ray shiras. lol. Ackey Breaky Heart. 6 a one half dozen of the same --lol


They aren't Shiras. They don't meet any of the requirements of a sub-species for one, their weights aren't even close to a Shiras and the antler configurations are also bigger than a true Shiras.

Just look at SCI and all the 'record book' bulls - they're coming out of BC and Alberta because they've arbitrarily assigned a line that B&C doesn't support so they can generate more interest. I guess it's one of the pitfalls of trophy hunting. Tell somebody their animal isn't what it is but it'll score high and people buy into that. "Yes honey you look reallyyyyyyyyy good in that dress."


There are lots of Hanna's out there Jelly, make sure you can tell the difference between them. It's all about where they live and Hanna ain't from BC she's from the US.

[GoatGuy]

As long as I can remember there has never been LEH on Bull Elk ( In the East Koots)...There was a 3 point or better season in the 90's, with LEH for cows or calves, but nothing for bulls. Then it was about 1995 IIRC that they changed to the 6 point or better rule.

The only other way you could get a smaller than 6 bull was to take advantage of the archery any bull goes season, which is now a "any elk" season in Zone "X" of the trench...Above 1100 m (3400 feet) it is still "any bull" during archery....Sept. 1 through 9...

Bull moose went LEH in Region 4 in 1991. Lots of people because damn near every other region had closed it's moose hunting. Some of the same issues as today, not enough communications between regions and not enough constructive thought put into seasons. Of course there was always the 'intent' (verbal 'promises') of going back to the GOS but apathy and complacency jump in and you end up with LEH.

Elk
Region 4 didn't go all 6 pt until 1998. 10 years before that it was a 41 day 3 pt and a 16 day 6 pt. There have always been lots of cow/calf but piles in the 90s and principally a bad winter. The 'bull' season never had any effect on the population.

[kootenayelkslayer]

They aren't Shiras. They don't meet any of the requirements of a sub-species for one, their weights aren't even close to a Shiras and the antler configurations are also bigger than a true Shiras.

Just look at SCI and all the 'record book' bulls - they're coming out of BC and Alberta because they've arbitrarily assigned a line that B&C doesn't support so they can generate more interest. I guess it's one of the pitfalls of trophy hunting. Tell somebody their animal isn't what it is but it'll score high and people buy into that. "Yes honey you look reallyyyyyyyyy good in that dress."


There are lots of Hanna's out there Jelly, make sure you can tell the difference between them. It's all about where they live and Hanna ain't from BC she's from the US.

So just to clarify, you're saying that SCI recognizes moose in southern BC and Alberta as Shiras, and B&C does not? I had heard B&C draws the line for Shiras moose at the 49th parallel, but I'd never heard that SCI recognizes Shiras moose in Canada.
I understand that it would be difficult to draw a clear boundary between the two different sub-species in southern BC and Alberta (just like it's a fine line between Alaska/Yukon and Canadian sub species in northern BC), but from my experience, the moose I see in the Kootenays are noticeably different in size than the moose I see around Prince George. I've always claimed the moose in the Kootenays are Shiras, but maybe I've been mistaken.
It always made me feel more special to say that I've shot a Shiras, especially when the tag I drew was 50:1 odds :-P

[GoatGuy]

So just to clarify, you're saying that SCI recognizes moose in southern BC and Alberta as Shiras, and B&C does not? I had heard B&C draws the line for Shiras moose at the 49th parallel, but I'd never heard that SCI recognizes Shiras moose in Canada.
I understand that it would be difficult to draw a clear boundary between the two different sub-species in southern BC and Alberta (just like it's a fine line between Alaska/Yukon and Canadian sub species in northern BC), but from my experience, the moose I see in the Kootenays are noticeably different in size than the moose I see around Prince George. I've always claimed the moose in the Kootenays are Shiras, but maybe I've been mistaken.
It always made me feel more special to say that I've shot a Shiras, especially when the tag I drew was 50:1 odds :-P

Yes, there are two organizations who say the moose below the trans Canada highway (all the way across the Province's) are Shiras. Those are SCI and GOABC.

You won't find a biologist/zoologist or what have you that support it but that's what those two organizations have decided - like I said it helps the trophy concept.

Have a look at the Shiras moose in the US - they're like dark elk with tiny antlers. Our cows in the EK are probably around 140 lbs more than the biggest Shiras bull.:lol:

[kootenayelkslayer]

Well thanks GG, that's pretty interesting stuff. I guess I can no longer use the excuse that my bull's antlers were so small because it was a Shiras.
Between you and me, I might just stick with my Shiras story haha.

[GoatGuy]

Well thanks GG, that's pretty interesting stuff. I guess I can no longer use the excuse that my bull's antlers were so small because it was a Shiras.
Between you and me, I might just stick with my Shiras story haha.

Sounds good, you won't be the first!

They all still taste the same. ;)

[6616]

I knew it, I knew it,,,,that last dink elk I shot was a Tule,,,, wandered up from Frisco, no wonder his horns were so small, might actually be a world record Tule.

[J_T]

I knew it, I knew it,,,,that last dink elk I shot was a Tule,,,, wandered up from Frisco, no wonder his horns were so small, might actually be a world record Tule.Hey, watch those stories. You know those small bulls in WK 4-08 with the nice crown top are Tule's, which must be why we can't hunt them.

[Seeadler]

Yes, there are two organizations who say the moose below the trans Canada highway (all the way across the Province's) are Shiras. Those are SCI and GOABC.

You won't find a biologist/zoologist or what have you that support it but that's what those two organizations have decided - like I said it helps the trophy concept.

Have a look at the Shiras moose in the US - they're like dark elk with tiny antlers. Our cows in the EK are probably around 140 lbs more than the biggest Shiras bull.:lol:

The RBCM "Hoofed Mammals of British Columbia" does state the Shiras' Moose is found in SE BC, however, it seems it is not clear if the area is restricted to the Flathead or if the area is bounded by the TransCanada and Kootenay Lake.

Honestly though, I can't say that I care. But I do think that the moose in the Flathead and Wigwam are certainly smaller, both in horn and body than those I have seen in northern BC.

Are any of the subspecies of moose valid or are the difference just expressions of Bergmann's Rule?

[GoatGuy]

The RBCM "Hoofed Mammals of British Columbia" does state the Shiras' Moose is found in SE BC, however, it seems it is not clear if the area is restricted to the Flathead or if the area is bounded by the TransCanada and Kootenay Lake.

Honestly though, I can't say that I care. But I do think that the moose in the Flathead and Wigwam are certainly smaller, both in horn and body than those I have seen in northern BC.

Are any of the subspecies of moose valid or are the difference just expressions of Bergmann's Rule?

Last question, you're probably right as all moose seem to be geographically linked now and that body size and antler growth likely changes all the way up. Gene flow in a sub-species should be minimal; that certainly isn't the case.

I was wrong Boyer put them south of the Trans Canada and everybody else had different lines. The last line may be the most significant. Also for all intents and purposes the % of yearling bulls that are 2 pt or less on one antler was about the same between north and the flights conducted in the bottom end of Region 4.

A population review of moose in the Kootenay Region
Kim G. Poole
Aurora Wildlife Research


Here you go:

"Three subspecies of moose occur in British Columbia: Alaskan (or Yukon or tundra) moose (A. a. gigas) in the far northwestern corner of the province, northwestern moose (A. a. andersoni) throughout much of the rest of the province, and Shiras (or Shira’s or Shiras’ or Yellowstone) moose (A. a. shirasi) in the extreme southeastern part of the province (Shackleton 1999). The border between Shiras’ moose and northwestern moose in British Columbia is debateable. Cowan and Guiguet (1965) placed the range of
Shiras moose fairly tightly as the Flathead Valley and adjacent Rocky Mountains south of Crowsnest Pass. Shackleton (1999) placed the boundary at the Trans-Canada Highway (TCH) to the north, and the east side of Kootenay Lake to the west. Bowyer et al. (2003) show Shiras moose range across all of southern British Columbia approximately south of the TCH. The outfitting organizations consider Shiras moose to occur in British Columbia south of the TCH with the Monashee Mountains (recently extended to the Okanagan valley) as the western boundary (C. Addison, Guide Outfitters Association of British Columbia, pers. comm.). Shiras moose are characterized as having the smallest body size and antlers of the North American moose (Bowyer et al. 2003). Mean body weights of adult cow moose captured in the 3 areas of the East Kootenay (Flathead, Upper Elk, and Spillimacheen valleys) as estimated by regression from body measurements (Hundertmark and Schwartz 1998) did not differ among areas (F = 1.39, 35 df,P = 0.26), and averaged 439 kg (K. Poole, unpublished data), greater than the supposed maximum body weight for bull Shiras moose (370 kg; Bubenik 1998)."

[Jelvis]

I talked to some hunters from Kamloops they told me to take an old age pensioner out elk hunting in Region 4 they can shoot any bull is this right or are they misinformed, sounds crazy but there going this season with gramma and their friends dad so any positivelies on this new news in Kammy area for reg 4 elksters, if it is then why is'nt it advertizzzed pilly's. Or is this the Best Kept Secret that is'nt a secdret or not?
Thanks in advance --- you guessed it ------ Lance

[6616]

I talked to some hunters from Kamloops they told me to take an old age pensioner out elk hunting in Region 4 they can shoot any bull is this right or are they misinformed, sounds crazy but there going this season with gramma and their friends dad so any positivelies on this new news in Kammy area for reg 4 elksters, if it is then why is'nt it advertizzzed pilly's. Or is this the Best Kept Secret that is'nt a secdret or not?
Thanks in advance --- you guessed it ------ Lance

In 2008 there was a 10 day GOS for youth and seniors for antlerless elk. I don't know if that will be extended to any elk for 2009 but it's definitely possible.

This is a season to try to keep us old guys interested, and to introduced the young'uns to hunting (recruitment/retention), not to take gramma and the grandkids along to watch camp while guys go out and slay elk on their tags. Let's be careful this opportunity is not abused or it will be taken away.

[rocksteady]

I talked to some hunters from Kamloops they told me to take an old age pensioner out elk hunting in Region 4 they can shoot any bull is this right or are they misinformed, sounds crazy but there going this season with gramma and their friends dad so any positivelies on this new news in Kammy area for reg 4 elksters, if it is then why is'nt it advertizzzed pilly's. Or is this the Best Kept Secret that is'nt a secdret or not?
Thanks in advance --- you guessed it ------ Lance


Here is how it was last year....

September 1-9, under 1100 metres elevation, ANY ELK with archery tackle.
September 1-9, outside of the 1100 metres boundary, archery only, ANY BULL
September 10- 20th - Rifle - Jr/Sr season Antlerless elk, but only if under 1100 metres in the "X" zone

September 10 to October 20 - Non Sr, non Jr. Regular hunter with a rifle - 6 point no matter where you are or elevation.


If somebody tells you that they were bringing a Sr with them cause the could shoot any bull with a rifle....They are MISINFORMED !!!!!!!

[hunter1947]

I talked to some hunters from Kamloops they told me to take an old age pensioner out elk hunting in Region 4 they can shoot any bull is this right or are they misinformed, sounds crazy but there going this season with gramma and their friends dad so any positivelies on this new news in Kammy area for reg 4 elksters, if it is then why is'nt it advertizzzed pilly's. Or is this the Best Kept Secret that is'nt a secdret or not?
Thanks in advance --- you guessed it ------ Lance


You heard wrong jel ,no bull alowed for old age pensioner ,if they want they can hunt during bow season for any bull anywhere ,Sept 1 till the 9th... or like Mike said below the 1100 meters in the X area bow only.

[Jelvis]

I have a relative that has a disability ah was wondering does this mean that she could go down the road closure in region 4 if I could drive her cuz she can't walk through the bush?
Thanks in advance --- you know by now --- Lance.
I feel so bad for her she is legally disabled please if some one is in the same boat it would be kind of you to give a polite response and an interpretation of the reg's pertaining to the region 4 road closures for people with disabilities. Thanks again in advance --- L.J P.

[rocksteady]

I have a relative that has a disability ah was wondering does this mean that she could go down the road closure in region 4 if I could drive her cuz she can't walk through the bush?
Thanks in advance --- you know by now --- Lance.
.


I get the feeling you are doing some trolling here:biggrin: trying to keep the thread alive til huntin season....:twisted:

[hunter1947]

You would still have to stick to the hunting rules for hunting any region Jel.
If there are road closers below the 1100 meter mark she still would have to get a special permit to hunt in the road closer ,you have to talk to the wildlife branch and get a permit to go into the road closer.

Sometimes they will let a hadycap person into areas some times not..

[Jelvis]

Just the facts mam, like I said someone who understands the legalities with having someone in this situation. If you don't know then don't say anything but if you do --- wood b appreciated. Unless you don't want to for some strange reason? Don't have the regulations around from last year. It is a legitmate hunting question. Thanks in advance --- Lance.

[hunter1947]

Jel send a private mesage to d6dan he will know what the scope is http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[Jelvis]

Sounds good brah but like I was sayin different disabilities so might be different too. Does'nt matter that much but was interested to know but I don't phone the government won't give a answer anyways over the phone. Just thought someone's bin dare dun dat, no big dealy mick bobber.
Thanks I'll figure it out on my own then jelly bo deli.
Your kewl tanks

[Jelvis]

That there ten day senior hunt for antlerless sounds not too shabby people, what's the take on that as far as success rate pardner's.
My oldest brother is like 66 yearse old. kewl he can't git around to good since twisten his left knee doin the russian polka.
Jel---success rate figures on that? Thanks dudes.

[Seeadler]

That there ten day senior hunt for antlerless sounds not too shabby people, what's the take on that as far as success rate pardner's.
My oldest brother is like 66 yearse old. kewl he can't git around to good since twisten his left knee doin the russian polka.
Jel---success rate figures on that? Thanks dudes.

Without any statistics to back it up, just my own observations, I think success was good-very good in Year 1, and poor-very poor in Year 2. Was it the weather or did the elk catch on?

[Jelvis]

Heck of a point C-adler weather could make a difference especially around the Rocky Mountaanes --- I don't think elk would catch on quite that fast but never say never --- what about that 1100 metre thing is that hard to determine or is there an allowance on that at all cuz ah a map could be hard to go by unless a guy had one of those altimeeters but who could affard one a doze? C-adler? talk 1100 metres friend.
Lance -- Whats the elevation of the valley floor in Cranbrook?

[6616]

Heck of a point C-adler weather could make a difference especially around the Rocky Mountaanes --- I don't think elk would catch on quite that fast but never say never --- what about that 1100 metre thing is that hard to determine or is there an allowance on that at all cuz ah a map could be hard to go by unless a guy had one of those altimeeters but who could affard one a doze? C-adler? talk 1100 metres friend.
Lance -- Whats the elevation of the valley floor in Cranbrook?

City = 3020 ft elev, 920 meters.
Airport = 3984 ft elev, 940 meters

300 to 400 antlerless elk killed in LEH seasons
450 to 550 in Youth/Sr GOS season.

[Jelvis]

6616 --- right on so 1100 metres = how many feet for us ole timers hehahe
I guess we're not supposed to compare feet and metres eh?
39 inches in a metre or so calculator is needed friend-a-mine.
Wow 800 antlerless approx good information thats a few alright.
Lance not great at matho-matics. Could yah thanks

[6616]

3575 feet.

[J_T]

Sounds good brah but like I was sayin different disabilities so might be different too. Does'nt matter that much but was interested to know but I don't phone the government won't give a answer anyways over the phone. Just thought someone's bin dare dun dat, no big dealy mick bobber.
Thanks I'll figure it out on my own then jelly bo deli.
Your kewl tanksThey've had requests for disabled permits. Based on what I've seen, I wouldn't have high expectations on getting one.


Heck of a point C-adler weather could make a difference especially around the Rocky Mountaanes --- I don't think elk would catch on quite that fast but never say never --- Hunting pressure is like air pressure to the elk, they catch on "as" it starts to change. And they don't forget.


what about that 1100 metre thing is that hard to determine Based on the way you are presenting yourself in this thread Jel, when you run out of thigh and you run out of air, your still going to be below 1100.

[rocksteady]

what about that 1100 metre thing is that hard to determine or is there an allowance on that at all cuz ah a map could be hard to go by unless a guy had one of those altimeeters but who could affard one a doze?


Most GPS units read elevation

[6616]

There are good maps on the MOE web site Jelvis, do not rely on the little maps in the regulations. The x-zone and the bow zone are the same.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/elk_1100m_0708maps/Elk_BowOnly_Zone_X.pdf

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/elk1100m.html

[Jelvis]

Because I grew up in the saxties I have a problem trusting contracts so could'nt agree to the ah contract to down load so still am in a maze of haze about the 1100 metre thang.
How many feet above sealevel is 1100 meters exactly, ah.
I don't do banking or credit card stuff on line either, too untrusting because of hackers and jackers.
Old fashioned I guyess.
I told that guy who told me that any bull elk was opened for hunters over 65 was not quite correct in Reg 4 and mentioned the 1100 metres but he's older too so anyways tanks a schmillion for your help 66.
We got some stuff cleared up.
Lance --- > Elk meat is pretty good but I still like pg moose better --> later

[aletheuo]

Hmmm... things missing in LEH - cow/calf elk draw in region 4-5 was there last year, but not this year... something is definitely on the way here since they should be increasing harvest in this area, not decreasing. Maybe be an open season???? Anyone notice any other changes or omissions?

[wapitiwhacker]

The first Senior GOS antlerless elk in '07 was very successful. We dropped our bull off at Rick's in Cranbrook Oct 3rd and got the last hook as he was full to the rim with cows. Got skunked last year for a bull, if only we could have stayed another week whe it finally cooled down.

[Jelvis]

-------- Cow/Calf GOS in Mu 4-5, you gotta be, OUT TO LUNCH, WHAT! ---

[aletheuo]

LOL you bite like a trout in the elk river in 1905

[Jelvis]

Which Mu's in Region 4 are they going to put in Region 8.
They liked it before in 1985 so they are going to move at least two, so I herd but the guy had a few strong ones that night.
Jel -- 4 to 8 -- helps the elk herds spread out more.

[riflebuilder]

[quote=mcrae555;445059]I guess it will be one of those things guys will just weigh the pros and cons and decide for themselves. I would have someone kick me in the junk though if I ran across a spike/fork in the W.Koots new GOS and didn't bother to buy a tag just in case. For me its just insurance. Whatever is open I buy tags for. I always have a cougar tag as well. You just never know:smile:...

I am kicking mysf as Ihad 2 cougars 3 yards away and all I got to do was look at them...sould of bought te tag.

[Jelvis]

Region 4 changed a lot back in 80-81 and after that, it was a lot different before going into Region 8.
In 1978 the Fish and Wildlife instituted the ah, "Motor Vehicle Access Closure" Basically hunting on foot, a road hunters nightmare. OMG!
Elko-Upper Wigwam
Same species smaller numbers then pre 70's
More changes coming 4 to 8 need to litigate -- don't be late. lol.