Grizzly harvest and meat removal requirements

[Fisher-Dude]

I was having a few pops with the president and past president of the BCWF last weekend, and we were discussing the current attack on our grizzly hunt by the antis. One issue that I raised was that if there were a requirement to remove the meat of grizzly bears like we have for black bears, the antis would have less of a "trophy only" hunt stigma to label us grizzly hunters with.

What do you think? Would it be a good idea to lobby Victoria for a change to the regulations, making it mandatory to remove the edible portions of a grizzly bear?

PS - the couple of times I've eaten grizzly bear, it was damned good meat!

[KodiakHntr]

Thats kind of ironic, as a fair number of the CO's I've talked to while spring bear hunting would be agreeable to removing the meat recovery requirement for black bears to get more people hunting them, and possibly reduce the number that CO's have to kill in the fall near peoples homes.

I don't think the removal of the "trophy" stigma through meat removal of grizzly bear carcasses would solve anything. Anti hunters want the hunt stopped, for all creatures, period. That would simply be another nail in the coffin, in reducing revenue to wildlife through lack of hunter participation in bear hunting. (Witness the number of guys who have stopped hunting black bears when meat removal became manditory.)

[6616]

I suppose so if that were the only way to keep the hunt, but I fear KH is correct.

[kootenayslam]

you can always take the meat if you want too. I don't think a little concession like this will change the minds of the anti's and their cause.

[Fisher-Dude]

I should add that there's no way to change the minds of the antis...it's the 80% of people in the middle whose opinion I want to influence.

[KodiakHntr]

Didn't make much difference when it changed for black bears though did it...All it ended up being was another rung on the ladder gained for the anti's....Bear hunting is still very much viewed as the sensless murder of soft cuddly teddy bears...

I understand where you are coming from, but losing hunter-generated revenue is the wrong direction. Remove the meat retrieval aspect from bear hunting, and put any increased revenue from increased black bear tag sales into promoting hunting to the public through information distribution about its value as the best management tool.
Increase public awareness about hunting and its value to society as a whole if children are brought up with values and recognition of what taking a life actually means....What taking responsibility for your actions means.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

While I agree that grizz meat "can" be good, it's not always that way. Just shoot a stinky rotten fall bear feeding on rotting salmon....so I've been told.

Grizz hides are large(very large) and many bears are taking after a really good hike(some are taking closer to access points). Pack it home to throw it out??:?

Personally, I like to have the option....but if it came down to grizz hunting or "no" grizz hunting I would say pack it out.

We would most likely win "some" brownie points with antis but they would find a new angle to attack as the usually do.

SSS

[elkdom]

WTF?? if it will make some "ECO_TARD" happy that I haul a couple hundred pounds of bear meat home and ,then toss it in the sewer lagoon?? It really dont matter a shit to me! As for making concessions to "ECO_TARDS"?? SORRY!they never will be satisfied, stop bear hunting, then coyotes, then deer, then everthing else! how about then we all stop eating meat?? become ECO_TARDS" and start grazing on grass in the ditches, like cattle?? I am tired of conceding to the "ECO_TARDS" as far as I am concerned they can FO!

[Kody94]

I'd feel better arguing the merits of g-bear hunting on a scientific basis than on a sham, or kowtowing basis.

[Gus]

By making the meat mandatory is not going to change any anti's opinion on grizzly harvest and will not deter them in any way. I dont think its a good idea.

[Kody94]

Didn't the # of black bear hunters drop when they added the meat removal regulation?

Maybe I should rethink my position....this could improve my LEH odds! :p ;) :D

[KodiakHntr]

I thought of that too as I was typing...:lol:

Heck, maybe it'll discourage all the tirekickers, the hardcore guys will get drawn, and harvest #'s will go waaaayyyy up ;)

Right up until guys start getting fined for not getting all the meat out before it spoils...

Can't know of any other critter that a guy would willingly go after where you KNOW that your walk in on the morning snow crust is going to be so much better than the walk out on rotten spring afternoon snow where you are sinking in to your balls with every step.

Now imagine busting your hump through even only one kilometer of that stuff, knowing that you have 7 more trips to make through that hell....Only to have a big fine waiting for you and a black mark on your record because you shot that bear on a warm grassy slide, and by the time you got back in it was starting to bone sour....Or by the time you got the hide out the hair was starting to slip...

[mainland hunter]

I don't think the idea is to appease the anti's as FD said it'd be more directed at those who are undecided as the anti's would have less fuel to work with. I don't know if it would work but it's not a bad idea imo

[elker]

there is only one way to make anti happy- hunters kill themselves.

To influence those in the middle, I already have a solution: simplify the process, make it easy to get a hunting license like a fishing license.

Hunting is not a privilege for a small group of handcore hunters, it is every citizen's rights. The only thing we need to do then is to enforce tough law and punishment against poaching and littering.

[Gus]

I see how it might take away one point from the anti's arguement, but it would just end up decreasing the number of hunters as it did with black bear.

[KodiakHntr]

Hunting is not a privilege for a small group of handcore hunters, it is every citizen's rights. The only thing we need to do then is to enforce tough law and punishment against poaching and littering.

Actually, in BC it is a priviledge. It most certainly is not a right. Rights cannot be taken away from you. Priviledges can.

[GoatGuy]

This kind of thing certainly leaves trapping in a precarious position.

Anybody ever eaten coyote before?

I think this is just another instance where hunters would sewer themselves. The public's smart enough to figure out that this isn't a meat hunt and never will be and if they aren't the anti-hunters will be more than willing to point that out.

BTW meat recovery on black bears didn't work either. Look at the QCI.


Only thing worse than having the evidence on your hands is being stupid enough to tell somebody you didn't do it. Nobody likes a liar.

[KodiakHntr]

Anybody ever eaten coyote before?

Would probably increase the sales of folding shovels significantly.....

[GoatGuy]

Would probably increase the sales of folding shovels significantly.....

Or remove us farther and farther from the ability to control wildlife populations.

Lets face it - hunting/trapping isn't about eating 100% of the time. Hunting provides clothing and it controls wildlife populations. If we're going to shy away from that we're all in for it.

[KodiakHntr]

Lets face it - hunting/trapping isn't about eating 100% of the time. Hunting provides clothing and it controls wildlife populations. If we're going to shy away from that we're all in for it.

And that is probably one of the most important points that gets missed by hunters themselves. You see this with the distinctions that get made between different factions. Some guys hunt strictly ungulates because the only way they can justify killing an animal is if they are going to eat it. Others find that mentality lacking in some respects I suppose (ie, varmint hunters....You don't find many guys scraping up gopher bits with a shovel to make stew out of after crunching them with a 22-250).

Placing more restrictions on ourselves to try and appease the public is not going to make things easier. Dissention amonst ourselves is not going to make the anti's go away. Or make public perception more favorable.

[PGK]

Bad idea. Only thing that will happen is a decreased number of GBear hunters, or a hell of a lot of ''non-recoverable'' meat left in the bush anyway. Decrease number of GBear hunters, decrease harvest, decrease resident opportunity? Probably...

[BCbillies]

Heck no . . . I've never shot a grizzly even close to the road! Some would really have to change their hunting methods to accommodate the meat. What's the best riding full size available today? ;-)

[BlacktailStalker]

I dont feel the need to sweat my ass off hauling out grizzly meat when the antis are going to boycott hunting them regardless...

[guest]

Personally, I refuse to hunt one with out the intent to take the meat. All the G bear I have eaten has been good, that said they have not been salmon bears, (simular to ducks on the salt chuck). Might as well eat Bullheads.
I will have it tested though, it's worth the few $ for the test, and peace of mind. Then Sausage the beast, Roasts for the BBQ. Some chops, but leave it in the bush ..... not for me. I guess I won't be hunting salmon bears. Just my opinion.
CT

[wolverine]

Personally, I refuse to hunt one with out the intent to take the meat. All the G bear I have eaten has been good, that said they have not been salmon bears, (simular to ducks on the salt chuck). Might as well eat Bullheads.
I will have it tested though, it's worth the few $ for the test, and peace of mind. Then Sausage the beast, Roasts for the BBQ. Some chops, but leave it in the bush ..... not for me. I guess I won't be hunting salmon bears. Just my opinion.
CT


I'm with you on that all the way. I have only eaten it once but it was good. My personal preference is to take the meat. I don't condemn those that don't but to me it just seems like such a waste as long as it's not a fish bear. I apply the same rule to blackies though.... no fish bear there either. That being said I don't apply the same rule to varmints. There is a difference.

[kgriz]

I originally voted no but will now change my vote as long as the stipulation of taking the meat remains with the same wording as at present.........takes alot of shots sometimes to knock one down for good.;-); therefore, still not much meat removed and the ecofreaks get a warm fuzzy feeling while I laugh at them.

[kgriz]

Omigod I just realized that I may have been dabbling in the dreaded grey area again....how unethical of me:eek: I change back to no.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'll play Devil's Advocate for a minute:

Black bears are a good recruitment species for new hunters, and are also on GOS. Grizzly bears aren't really suited to newbie hunters, and are on LEH. Would those two differences result in not as big an impact to retention of grizzly hunters, compared to the drop off we saw in black bear hunters when similar legislation was brought in? Are grizzly hunters a bit more "die-hard" than black bear hunters, on average? Does grizzly being on LEH attract more "I'll hunt 'em whatever it takes" type of folks?

[Bowtime]

I don't think it should be mandatory. I myself took the hinds out on my grizz, but it was nowhere near a salmon stream. Some bears I would not think of eating.

[kgriz]

Fisherdude I can see where you are coming from but it seems that grizzlies attract more trophy hunters ( in general) these days and often these people are more fanatical and have the time and resources to pursue them no matter what the situation may be; whereas, before LEH, moose and Elk hunters who had the money for the tag might shoot one if it comes along during these hunts although I would suspect that often it was shoot first...buy tag later in these situations.

[6 K]

F.D., I think I understand what your idea however,
the truth is this: Antis can't be appeased; they can't be reasoned or even bargained with.
They want no hunting period. They want no shooting period. No guns period. No fishing No trapping No logging No mining No industry ECT.
They want only their own way and nothing but their way.
Don't give in to the idea that we should try to make ourselves more appealing.
It simply does not work.
The only way to deal with them is to firmly stand our ground together.
We are hunters. We kill animals. Some of them for food. Some of them for hides. Some of them for fun. (Varmints) Not all of us partake in all these aspects. But we damn well should stand up for our privilege to do so if and when we choose.
If you want to take out g-bear, coyote or wolf meat be my guest.
Don't force me to.
I for one haven't taken a black bear since before that bull crap was instated.


Any of you guys who think all bears taste good, tag along with me. If you can get the hide off and still believe that, you won't long very after your taste buds pitch that putrid skank out the same way it came in.
Coyote has nothing on big stinky!!!

[GoatGuy]

I'll play Devil's Advocate for a minute:

Black bears are a good recruitment species for new hunters, and are also on GOS. Grizzly bears aren't really suited to newbie hunters, and are on LEH. Would those two differences result in not as big an impact to retention of grizzly hunters, compared to the drop off we saw in black bear hunters when similar legislation was brought in? Are grizzly hunters a bit more "die-hard" than black bear hunters, on average? Does grizzly being on LEH attract more "I'll hunt 'em whatever it takes" type of folks?

Yes, on LEH, once people get drawn, most shoot the first bear, not the 10th. Before people used to casually hunt grizzly bear, now they get drawn and they're shooting.

There are social factors way outside of just controlling harvest when it comes to LEH.

Used to be 5 black bears no meat removal and people hunted black bears.


Remember bears eat moose calves......................................

[mark]

I think this is a bad idea to even discuss!!!
This is a step in the wrong direction!!!
Kodiak hunter said it best in the second post!!
As said the antis wont be reasoned with.
The 80% people on the fence need to be educated, not mentally compensated!

[BCrams]

I know a couple old timers who hunted grizzlies before LEH came out for them. They would make the effort to spring hunt grizzlies every year ....... passing up grizzlies while holding out for a big one .........for years they didn't shoot anything......but eventually they harvested the grizzlies they were looking for .....

They never hunted grizzlies again with LEH. Pretty sad.

They knew they could hold out, knowing they could just buy a tag the next year and keep at it. You can't do that in today's LEH world.

I've put in for grizz ever since they came out and I still havn't drawn a tag in the zones I chose to put in. Given how long its taking, I doubt I'm going to be picky when a grizzly does present an opportunity because frankly, I don't know how long I'll have to wait to get drawn again .......

[Singleshotneeded]

:D Appeasement works on antis as well as it did on a certain German leader before WW2...our best course is to educate the silent majority that LEH hunting of grizzlies is scientifically managed, sustainable, and doesn't harm the future of the grizzly. While we're at it, let them know how much it contributes to the B.C. economy...and then let them make up their minds after being given all the facts. Support the BCWF and when given the opportunity to enlighten the neutral silent majority, then take the time to do so. We're all ambassadors of our sport, and if we want to continue enjoying our sport, we'd all better present an ethical, responsible, and friendly front to the neutral majority.

[sawmill]

I have skinned 9 spring grizz and every one stunk so bad I had to wash my hands with gasoline to cut the smell.I quickly learned to wear old raggedy clothes too so I could just chuck them after.Smelled kinda like cat piss mixed with skunk.Cook a piece of that indoors and you would have to burn down the house after.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

There is not a chance I would be packing out a grizz, There are more grizz in this province then ever. the bear biologist that has been studying grizz in my vally for 3 or 4 years was surprised how many bears spent their time here, way more then she believed, and she was raised here. She is against hunting bears but believes the government will have to allow hunting g-bears here because of the population boom.

[Singleshotneeded]

:-D Regarding Grizzly meat, if the bear's been eating salmon, or been near a dump, then the meat is garbage. If the bear has been eating natural foods, then you can make a decent sausage out of the meat, mixed with pork...