sheep pack weight ?????

[leadpillproductions]

when all the sheep hunters go for a back pack hunt whats your weight of the pack gear included

also do you guys use a walkin stick if so what kind

[mudbud]

I'll go first.

With 2 of us including water, salt and one rifle we were exactly 102lbs 6 ounces. This is for ~10 days. I think I could drop that a few lbs but at the sacrifice of some comfort.

[pro 111]

I use a wilderness wanderer , for 10 days, around 60lbs not including rifle. lots of sox is the key. Change em every morning. Smart wool over cotton liners. NO blisters at all.

[yukon john]

I use horses but I pack about 30lbs on my day trips remember a full body cape with horns and every ounce of meat will be 110-130lbs for thinhorns anyway. When you pack one out by yourself you hurt for days but man its worth it!!!

[Dale]

I'm gonna try for 40lbs plus rifle, minus water for 8-10 days

[BCrams]

I'm gonna try for 40lbs plus rifle, minus water for 8-10 days

Post your gear list / weight when its all set.

[leadpillproductions]

40 lbs would be great that might be tough to do

[Manglinmike]

40 lbs, that's pretty light,its the right idea but what do you leave behind to obtain that low net?I went on a fly in 10 day backpack trip, and I'll be honest with you,I packed and unpacked and weighed and reweighed that flippin wilderness wanderer so many times that I thought my wife was going to have a fit !Still could not leave enough stuff behind to break 55lbs!!

[Goliath]

I've dreamed about a 40 lb pack. So far it's never turned to reality. The best I've done is 55 lbs all in. I know how I could shave 2-3 more pounds, but that would cost another 400-600 bucks and a little less comfort.

PS. Never skimp on socks. If your feet are dry & comfortable ALL the time, 60% of the battle is won.

[leadpillproductions]

does any one have lists of whats goin in there packs

[BCRiverBoater]

I have yet to see a 40 lb pack. I have heard people talk about them but for a 10 day hunt I have never seen one. 50 lbs is still a light pack for 10 days.

[Everett]

Either I don't bring as much stuff when I hunt our I have way lighter gear than you guys. Anything over 40lb sounds way to heavy to me.

[gerrygoat]

I don't think I've ever come in under 60 lbs, don't know how it would be possible to have a pack that weighs 40

[mod7rem]

58 total pounds is the lightest I have acheived for a 10 day trip. Dropping another 8 pounds seems possible with some more gear changes.

[Goliath]

does any one have lists of whats goin in there packs

A fine gentleman on this site named Carl (Bigwhities) has an excellent list c/w photos. It's about as comprehensive as it gets.

good luck.

[mudbud]

Well I went thru my gear list to see if 40 lbs is possible, (without rifle) I think it is, but I would be leaving behind: salt, binoculars, spotting scope, tripod, camera, gps, rangefinder, first aid stuff, my supercomfy sleeping matt (can't leave home without it, even if it is heavier)....oh and not including water. Sure you can head out for 10 days @ 40 lbs, but I don't think you would be equipped for sheep hunting.

Also I think you should include your rifles weight, you have to carry it one way or another, plus it is one of the big areas where you can lose major lbs.

Also a solo list is alot different then a group or partner list, as alot of the heavier items can be shared.......

[Ambush]

Mine is about 55 pounds, but then my partner's is about 80. Getting old is do-able if you have good hunting buddies.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[mudbud]

How about tips to lower your pack weight?


Heres a few,

Cut off everything you don't need, I cut off all the labels off my tent, boots, sleeping bag, clothes etc....

I cut off all the extra length of strapping on my backpack

Get Corlanes to build you a rifle (under 6lbs - scoped, sling, ammo and scope covers)

[bigwhiteys]

My pack comes in at about 60-62lbs including my rifle... I've spent a pile of money upgrading/replacing gear, so if anyone has a 40lb pack for 8-10 days I'd love to see your gear list.

With a super custom rifle, smaller spotting scope, and lighter sleeping bag I could shave another 3-4 lbs, but I am okay with it like this...

Carl

[bigwhiteys]

A fine gentleman on this site named Carl (Bigwhities) has an excellent list c/w photos. It's about as comprehensive as it gets.

Thank you for the kind words.... Here is the list again.

Aside from your pack here is a list of the items I currently pack along…
I have updated this list with some newer gear, replacements, etc...

The photos no longer reflect this updated list but I'll include them anyways...


Clothing
- 6 Pair Thorlo Level III hiking socks. (expensive but worth every penny)
- 1 mid-weight polartec fleece pullover.
- 1 lightweight Merino Wool Icebreaker (wear t-shirt underneath).
- 1 pair North Face Paramount Convertible Pants (2 pairs including the ones I wear)
- 1 pair light-weight thermal underwear. (use these for sleeping in or on colder days)
- 2 pair "Willy Wickers" boxer shorts. (including the one I wear)
- 1 light weight North Face wick away t-shirt.
- 1 pair lightweight rainpants. (rockwater designs)
- 1 lightweight rain jacket. (Helly Hansen)
- 1 pair uninsulated leather gloves.

Sleeping/Shelter
- 1 Lightweight backpacking sleeping bag. (good to about -5c - I will upgrade this bag soon)
- 1 Silcoat packcover (essential for keeping your pack bone dry)
- Prolite 4 Thermarest. (I own 3 thermarests. This one is nice & light and compacts very small)
- 1 Sil-Tarp II 8′x10′. (These lightweight tarps are awesome for a fast light weight shelter)
- 1 Integral Designs MK-3 Expedition Tent (4 season tent)
- 2 HUSKY heavy duty garbage bags (use for groundsheet under tent)

Equipment/Optics/Misc.
- 1 roll of asswipe.
- 2 packs of 15 baby wipes.
- 1 small can of penetan (diaper rash cream)
- 2 Hiking Poles (Chinook)
- SPOT emergeny satellite locator
- Petzl Myo Xp Headlamp. (very bright - runs on 3 AA batteries.)
- Handmade Hunting Knife (could shave weight here with a smaller buck or puma knife.)
- 1 scalpal handle with 3 extra blades (forget size sorry)
- 1 pair Swarovski 8×30 Binoculars.
- 1 Zeiss 85mm Spotting Scope.
- 1 Manfrotto 718 SHB Tripod (okay but there is better)
- First Aid Kit (Tylenol,Ibuprofen,Antiseptic,Bandaids,Bandages,Ga uze,blister kit)
- 1 Tube firepaste (this stuff is the best firestarter I have used yet - Perfect for backpacking)
- 2 or 3 bic lighters stashed in different places on my person or pack.
- 6 AA batteries. (I could probably get away with only 3 but just in case…)
- 1 TrailBlazer Buck Saw (This handy unit breaks down into a light aluminum tube. Makes getting wood for your fire much easier. - We use this lots)
- 12 Federal 130 Grn .270 Rounds (3 in my magazine and 9 on the butt of my rifle)
- 100′ Poly Rope. (Maybe a little overkill but I like to make a good camp)
- Tikka Lite S/S .270 W/Bushnell Elite 3200 Scope. (Great Gun - Accurate & Light!)
- 1 Sony Handycam Video Camera (20x Optical Zoom W/Zeiss Lenses)
- 1 Sony DSC-W50 6.0 MP Digital Camera (Great Small Compact Camera)
- 1 Garmix 60Csx GPS pre-programmed with maps of area.
- 1 printed and laminated copy of Google Map image for area.

Food & Cooking.
- Jetboil Stove (w/2 Canisters fuel - Good for 10 days of boiling water for drinks and meals)
- 2 Liter Soft Plastic Water Container (In case you need to pack extra water)
- 1 1.5 liter Nalgene bottle (Strap to outside of my pack)
- 1 4.85lb bag of salt.
- Pristine water drops (water treatment)

Breakfast
- 4 MountainHouse Granola W/Blueberries (Great Filling Breakfast)
- 3 Packets of Maple & Brown Sugar Oatmeal (Great Light Breakfast)

Lunches/Snacks (I don’t eat much throughout the day)
- 1 Clif Protein Bar for each day. (These are great snacks)
- 2 small bags of Grimms beef jerky
- 1 Ritter Sport Almonds Chocolate Bar. (eat a few squares per serving.)
- 1 Ritter Sport Hazlenut Chocolate Bar. (eat a few squares per serving.)
- 2 Nut & Raisin Chocolate Bars. (eat a few squares per serving.)
- 1 small ziplock with instant coffee
- 1 small ziplock with some sugar
- 2 packages of Emergen-C drink mix for each day.

Dinners. (all mountainhouse)
- 1 Chicken Teriyaki W/Rice.
- 1 Turkey Tettrazinni.
- 1 Chicken Breast w/mashed potatoes.
- 1 Beef Stew (Really Good)
- 1 Chili Mac W/Beef.
- 1 Noodles W/Chicken.
- 4 Pasta Primavera (Really Good)

Total Pack Weight = approx. 58 lbs W/Rifle.

One of the biggest challenges when getting your pack ready is how to efficiently pack everything so it’s going to be easy to locate and repack should you need to. As you can see in the photo below there is a lot of gear here!

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/packspread.jpg

(All Of My Gear For 7 Days Sheep Hunting In The Mountains)

One of the best things I have found is to use those thin mesh draw string bags that so many camping/backpacking supply stores now carry. I can organize all of my gear into the mesh bags and it keeps everything together and packed as tightly as possible. The less volume your pack has the easier it is to navigate through heavy brush or tricky situations.

Here is a another photo of all the same gear but now I have reorganized my Clothes, Socks, and Food into the mesh bags. Look at the difference. It’s much more organized and makes it so much easier to handle when you are out in the field. The last thing you want to do is tear apart your bag and repack the mess while your out hunting or on your way to camp. When I am hiking I go non-stop until I reach where I am going.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/packcondensed.jpg

When packing my pack I lay the food in the big mesh bag to your right on the bottom of my pack. I then put my clothes on top of them trying to keep the heavier items towards the center of the pack. I make sure everything is strapped down and the zippers are all closed, nothings hanging out anywhere.

Here are some photos of all of my gear packed up and ready to go. This backpack has some handy straps on the side that work excellent for carrying my rifle around. Usually I prefer to carry my rifle in my hands but sometimes when you are going up a steep climb or side hilling along a mountain creek it’s nice to have free hands. (My tent will be attached near the bottom via 2 large buckled straps)

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/packloaded.jpghttp://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/packloaded2.jpg

(Here is all my gear fully packed up and ready to hit the hills)

Carl

[leadpillproductions]

what about walkin sticks any one useing them

[bigwhiteys]

what about walkin sticks any one useing them

Yes, mentioned in my list... I used to take just one, then tried taking two and will likely always take two now. I do all my training without, so it's like a "treat" when we actually go and they make a major difference in keeping my knee problem in check, especially coming downhill, quite helpful in stream crossings and tricky spots with the extra points to leverage with.

I just use cheap $15.00 "Chinook" hiking poles. They work fine. If you're doing a lot of walking some thin fleece gloves or something similar will prevent your hand from getting blisters.

Carl

[gerrygoat]

After watching BCbillies use a pair of poles I started a couple of years ago using an old ski pole. It really does help stabile you on uneven ground and actually helps you power up a slope easier than without one. At some point I will get a real collapsable walking stick that you can put in your pack sometimes the one piece ski pole can be annoying.

[houndogger]

Great list Carl. What kind of pack and tent are you using?

[SHACK]

I have mine to 55 pounds, I could shave maybe a couple pounds of of that, but 2 or 3 pounds at that point was not going to kill me.
Hiking poles are Great, I don't think I will hunt without them, they sure help to take a load off your legs, stabilize assents and descents, work great for setting up a sil tarp shelter and with a little neoprene/Velcro rod wrap around one of them they can quickly be attached together to make a very good and stable bipod;)

[bigwhiteys]

Great list Carl. What kind of pack and tent are you using?

Thanks Dave, the pack is a Lowe Alpine 90 liter expedition pack (internal frame) and the tent is an Integral Designs MKIII... I could shed weight with a different tent. The pack has held up really well through a lot of thick nasty shit. I carry a spare waist belt buckle as well as some misc buckles in case anything breaks.

Carl

[Kody94]

For anyone wanting a 40 lb pack, excluding rifle, for an 8 to 10 day trip I have only two words: pack dog(s)
Otherwise, 50 to 55 lbs (excluding rifle) is a lot more realistic.

My pack for 8 to 10 days of backpacking in the summer is about 45lbs. The hunting gear you need to add to that for a northern sheep trip is considerable (wool clothes, spotter, tripod, ammo, salt for capes, etc, etc).

[bighornbob]

For anyone wanting a 40 lb pack, excluding rifle, for an 8 to 10 day trip I have only two words: pack dog(s)
Otherwise, 50 to 55 lbs (excluding rifle) is a lot more realistic.

My pack for 8 to 10 days of backpacking in the summer is about 45lbs. The hunting gear you need to add to that for a northern sheep trip is considerable (wool clothes, spotter, tripod, ammo, salt for capes, etc, etc).

SSSSter is right. I got my pack down to about 46 pounds and then I got this guy.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Picture_0034.jpg

The picture was taken when he was 5-6 months old. He is a just over a year now and the bags wont hang that low now (StoneSheepSteve and BC Rams saw him this weekend and said I should get him a saddle).

So my pack for the upcoming sheep season should be about 25 pounds:p:p

BHB

[GoatGuy]

SSSSter is right. I got my pack down to about 46 pounds and then I got this guy.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Picture_0034.jpg

The picture was taken when he was 5-6 months old. He is a just over a year now and the bags wont hang that low now (StoneSheepSteve and BC Rams saw him this weekend and said I should get him a saddle).

So my pack for the upcoming sheep season should be about 25 pounds:p:p

BHB

Nice pack! :-x

[GoatGuy]

Pack and walking sticks. Depends on how warm the weather is and how many people are going. Steaks, eggs, bacon can all add up in a hurry. Also got to bring lots of extra clothes in October. I wonder if Steadygirl recognizes the rocks in this picture?

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/croppic2.jpg

Pack Dog - pack is small only carries probably 10 lbs but it helps.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/10077kaz.JPG

Tired Pack Dog
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/dogtired.jpg

[Dirty]

You guys with dogs. What do you do when you spot animals? Do you tie the dog up? I have always wondered that.

[GoatGuy]

You guys with dogs. What do you do when you spot animals? Do you tie the dog up? I have always wondered that.

The dog comes along - if she didn't she'd probably whine. Once she knows you're into hunting mode she'll get right down and belly crawl beside you.

Everybody likes to see the first shot.

[GoatGuy]

What do you guys recommend for a dog pack?

I think the Wilderness Wanderer is what BHB has and is probably the way to go.

He stole it off some old guy from the Kootenays.

[Dale]

I said I would TRY and get my pack to 40lbs, didn't say it was possible. I loaded it up last night and I think I can get it somewhat close. Probable gonna be more like 46-48 without pea shooter.

[mudbud]

Hey Dale, if you make sub 50lbs post a gear list, I'd love to find a few more areas to shave my weight, plus we might be able to help you drop a few more. Hey even Carls great list has about 5lbs that could be dropped if he so desired....

[bighornbob]

What do you guys recommend for a dog pack?


My pack is a Wilderness wanderer pack. I have only used it around the neighborhood so no real use yet. But the Guy I bought it from used it and you cant even tell other then a little dust.

When I started looking for dog packs I hit all the pet shops and all I found was these packs that were made to carry a lunch and a bottle of water to a picnic or beach and they wanted close to $80 for them.

Once you see the dog packs from Wilderness wanderer you will laugh at what the pet shops carry. The bags are more then twice the size and about 10 times stronger. They are made of strong cordura and the bottoms are made of a sort of rubberized cordura. When i washed them out they literally hold water for some time before it slowly starts leaking out the seams. Each bag also zips off so you load it first then zip it onto the sort of saddle.

The one thing is the price, for the large set its close to $200 but well worth it if you want to use them more then lunch and a snack at the beach.

BHB

[30-378-magnum]

i havent been able to drop below 55 lbs with my pack for a 7-8 day hunt [thats with a buddy along to share items to carry tent stove rangefinder etc]

[leadpillproductions]

i should come real close to 50 lbs my wife will be at around 45lbs. both packs loaded with gun shells video equipment once i get it all freezed deied food ill post a complete weight of both packs loaded with list for a 8-10 day hunt

[BCbillies]

I am impressed with some of the pack weights being posted here! With my hip and back currently giving me pains I really need to get below 60 lbs this year. Shouldn't be a problem . . . just have to leave the oranges and grapefruits back at the truck. It would be tough leaving behind the pepper salami and cheese!

Onto poles - two poles are a must for me. I've tried a few different varieties (ski and trekking) and last season MEC replaced my previous set with what they said are their toughest pole. They are the Black Diamond Contour Eliptical carbon fibre pole. Cost a few bucks at $108 but to me well worth it. They have proven themselves so far and I use them for most outings including casual hiking - some of us have to nurse old injuries and need all the assistance we can get!

[boxhitch]

Carbon Fibre ? for the back-country ? MEC conspiracy.
Do not abuse these, do not scrape or scratch, weak points will explode.
Although, at $108, content may be low enough to be forgiving.

[Everett]

Weighed the wifes pack tonight 38lb thats set up for 7days. Not including rifle. So going off that my pack would weigh abought the same though I am in a weight reduction spree at the moment so I exspect to lose at least 3lb hopefully 5lb. Lost half a pound today with a new stove and a ti pot.
Looked at that list nobody needs half that stuff.
I once did seven days in the pyrenees with 50L pack that didn't weigh more than 25lb.
Buy decent gear and you can go light if your like me and have a bad back and crap knees you don't have a choice so you learn.

[Brambles]

Just a word of caution to the guys who are trying to get Uberlite packs. Don't skimp on the pack itself. Sure you can drop 5 lbs just by getting a lightweight expedition pack that can handle the weight going in, for example 50-60 lbs. BUT I wouldn't trust it to not tear apart going out heavy, you toss 120 lbs or more in one of those packs and you'll be dragging it across the ground by its ripped out shoulder straps and busted seams.

I'm going to do a little more experimenting with lighter packs in the future but only on short trips and I"ll have a spare pack back at the truck just incase things go south.

[Kody94]

You guys with dogs. What do you do when you spot animals? Do you tie the dog up? I have always wondered that.

He comes along until the final stalk. Then I drop my pack and leash him to it. He learned quickly that whining was not acceptable behavior while left with the pack.

[Kody94]

What do you guys recommend for a dog pack?

Best dog pack ever made was by DogStuf out of Alberta. Unfortunately they don't exist anymore.

I've checked out the Wilderness Wanderer dog packs, and although I don't like them as much as the DogStuf, the appear to be the next best thing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/Backpacking/redtail3a.jpg

[sfire436]

SSSSter is right. I got my pack down to about 46 pounds and then I got this guy.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Picture_0034.jpg

The picture was taken when he was 5-6 months old. He is a just over a year now and the bags wont hang that low now (StoneSheepSteve and BC Rams saw him this weekend and said I should get him a saddle).

So my pack for the upcoming sheep season should be about 25 pounds:p:p

BHB

Is he strong enough to carry a cooler too??:lol:

[Dirty]

Best dog pack ever made was by DogStuf out of Alberta. Unfortunately they don't exist anymore.

I've checked out the Wilderness Wanderer dog packs, and although I don't like them as much as the DogStuf, the appear to be the next best thing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/Backpacking/redtail3a.jpg

Great picture.

[budismyhorse]

hopefully you are heading down...

very nice photo. the kind you probably look at often.

[Riggzers]

I weigh 150 to 155 and try to pack 50 to 55lb complete with gun or bow with out water. Early season seems 50lb late season with extra clothes and more food 60+ happens more often than I would like but o well price of comfort. I definatly recoment poles I use one and the biggest advantage to me is I never have to look at my feet to see where Iam going. This make a huge differance less likly to bump game acidentaly when you come huffing around that corner on the mountian. Down hill loaded also they work magic. I only use one seems to me that two just get in the way. I rigged up a camera mount on my hiking pole( video of digital) Works awsome for the group photos and for steadier movie footage even on the move. The fist thing that goes in my pack is my petzel headlamp. To many of my sheep kills end the same way heavy pack and walking on sh-ty trail back to camp in the dark.

[spear]

Had to resurrect this thread, curious what other guys pack weights are down to.
Also, what capacity pack are most guys taking in for sheep?

[bigwhiteys]

Had to resurrect this thread, curious what other guys pack weights are down to. Also, what capacity pack are most guys taking in for sheep?
My pack weight hovers around 58lbs with 8 days food and my rifle. With a few more upgrades/downgrades whichever way you look at it, I could probably get it down to around the 50 lb mark.

Smaller Spotter
No Tripod (use rocks or pack, but it sucks!)
Bivy instead of tent
NeoAir instead of Exped Downmat
1 less pair socks
SPOT II instead of I
2AA headlamp instead of 3AA headlamp
Less Snacks
Only take 1 pair of pants (+ rain pants)

Just a few ways I could lighten up the load.

For pack size it all depends on what you're doing and where you are going. If you're headed out for 8-12 days then you'd want at the very least a 100+ liter (6500 is 107 liter) or bigger would be my opinion, you need room left over to bring a ram out.

Carl

[BCrams]

65-68 lbs average with gear / food to last 14-16 days

SSS and I have it down really well gearwise for 2 weeks.

The main gear required for a sheep hunt isn't going to differ much weight wise for hunts once you get beyond 5-7 days and up to 15 days. Your biggest difference will be food weight.

Planning first sheep hunts, unless you've done a lot of back country wilderness trips, you're better off planning shorter trips to start and build on it as your experience increases. Many new sheep hunters will find it hard to stay in the mountains past 7 days let alone 2 weeks.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

65 lbs average with gear / food for 14 days

SSS and I have it down really well gearwise for 2 weeks.

Packing for a 5-10 day sheep hunt would be a breeze.

Mine was 70-72....of course that was before I lost those bullets:-D

SSS

[BCrams]

Mine was 70-72....of course that was before I lost those bullets:-D

SSS

You'd be down a bit more if it wasn't for those delicious moisture filled jerky chunks fresh from the store you like packing!! :mrgreen:

[srupp]

my last stone sheep hunt was aprox 60 pounds..however my clothe sizes are larger than most = more weight..:cry:..the tent was super light..and super good..mountainhardware HELIOS..

The 2 places on equipment I could lose weight is the Cabelas pack is stoopid heavy...and my rifle is too heavy..but very accurate...tradeoff..

I use the 2 hiking poles...a must for me...

the spotter was the Swaro..65 hd with tripod is not light either but I send so much time quality is paramount..

steven

[pushbush]

Would an Eberlestock Just One pack be sufficient for a 7 day sheep hunt or should I be looking at upgrading my pack.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Would an Eberlestock Just One pack be sufficient for a 7 day sheep hunt or should I be looking at upgrading my pack.

It might work with a spike duffell.......as long as you don't shoot a ram:neutral:....or have very far to pack it out.

SSS

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You'd be down a bit more if it wasn't for those delicious moisture filled jerky chunks fresh from the store you like packing!! :mrgreen:

They only weigh one pound:mrgreen:.

SSS

[pushbush]

Okay, so what would be the ultimate pack I should be purchasing.

[vortex hunter]

My pack weight hovers around 58lbs with 8 days food and my rifle. With a few more upgrades/downgrades whichever way you look at it, I could probably get it down to around the 50 lb mark.

Smaller Spotter
No Tripod (use rocks or pack, but it sucks!)
Bivy instead of tent
NeoAir instead of Exped Downmat
1 less pair socks
SPOT II instead of I
2AA headlamp instead of 3AA headlamp
Less Snacks
Only take 1 pair of pants (+ rain pants)

Just a few ways I could lighten up the load.

For pack size it all depends on what you're doing and where you are going. If you're headed out for 8-12 days then you'd want at the very least a 100+ liter (6500 is 107 liter) or bigger would be my opinion, you need room left over to bring a ram out.

Carl


Hey Carl

Would your gear list work for a ten day grizzly hunt in reg 4 ? or what should a rook bring I have tent backpack not a big one tho riffle lamp truck two pack friends lol :twisted: but what would a guy really need .....

[Buck]

Here are some good ones

Mystery Ranch-Nice 6500 -7500 or crewcab
Barney packs -External frame freighter with pinnacle 7800 bag
Kifaru - Longhunter
Eberlestock - Just one
Wilderness wanderer- external frame
Ideally try each one to see which suits your frame these are all more than up to the task .

[bigwhiteys]

Hey Carl

Would your gear list work for a ten day grizzly hunt in reg 4 ? or what should a rook bring I have tent backpack not a big one tho riffle lamp truck two pack friends lol :twisted: but what would a guy really need .....


You might want to take a bigger gun and more toilet paper. That list is for a backpack hunt, if you are hunting grizz out of a truck/quads you can have a much better camp.

Carl

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Here are some good ones

Mystery Ranch-Nice 6500 -7500 or crewcab
Barney packs -External frame freighter with pinnacle 7800 bag
Kifaru - Longhunter
Eberlestock - Just one
Wilderness wanderer- external frame
Ideally try each one to see which suits your frame these are all more than up to the task .

Personally, I would cross off the Eberlestock and WW off that list....and I own both of them.:neutral:

SSS

[Blair]

I'll go first.

With 2 of us including water, salt and one rifle we were exactly 102lbs 6 ounces. This is for ~10 days. I think I could drop that a few lbs but at the sacrifice of some comfort.

Wow, although I have never hunted sheep, I would never pack water, especially in an alpine setting where the sheep usually are. For places with inferior water, a filter can save a lot of weight.

[calvin L]

Bc Rams At least I pack beer for SSS . Come on a young man like your self should not have any problems packing 1-2 beer .

calvin L

[bigwhiteys]

Wow, although I have never hunted sheep, I would never pack water, especially in an alpine setting where the sheep usually are. For places with inferior water, a filter can save a lot of weight.

Sometimes you've got to pack water, because there some mountains where it is scarce, and certain times of year it's scarce. I have a 1.5 liter nalgene I like to always keep full and 3 1L platypus I fill for when we want reserves at camp.

Having a pump filter, has allowed to us to get water from some pretty small watering holes, that would be otherwise be very tough to get water out of.

The last few years we've dug holes at the bottom of snow pack and let them fill then pump the water out.

Carl

[pathfinder55]

Wow, although I have never hunted sheep, I would never pack water, especially in an alpine setting where the sheep usually are. For places with inferior water, a filter can save a lot of weight.

It took us 6hr to hike up to the alpine, with no water sources along the way.Be prepared to carry water...Peter

[BCrams]

Here are some good ones

Mystery Ranch-Nice 6500 -7500 or crewcab
Barney packs -External frame freighter with pinnacle 7800 bag
Kifaru - Longhunter
Eberlestock - Just one
Wilderness wanderer- external frame
Ideally try each one to see which suits your frame these are all more than up to the task .

I have seen all the packs and my number 1 recommendation for sheep hunting on extended hunts is the Barney Pack. The "pinnacle" bag in my opinion is a tad big but the 'hunter' is just perfect. In-law owns the pinnacle so had a good look at it during a sheep hunt vs hunter.

Didn't like WW from the get go quite a few years back and witnessing SSS's pack fall apart didn't help :-D

Eberlestock - too small .. great for deer hunting or 2-3 day weekend warrior goat / sheep / deer trips.

Kifaru longhunter - just didn't like the fit and internal bag set up.

I know MR packs are fine looking packs and comfortable to a certain point but I always wondered how they would perform with a 'sheep load' and so far everything I've heard under a sheep load weighs in on negative from other 'extremely hardcore and experienced' hunters. A couple of whom are members on here.

More than a few hardcore sheep guys on this site and non-members have purchased the Barney backpack after seeing mine first hand and sets a chain reaction to their friends and can attest to a bomb proof / tough pack for sheep hunting (including sheep guides).

If you're looking for a solid pack to use year after year for sheep hunting type trips....have a serious look at the Barney.

That said, I park the Barney for my other hunts unless leaving it in the camp or truck and using it to pack elk quarters in the bag (works like a hot damn strapped in).

I think the MR pack would be a great fit for weekend elk and deer hunting or for 3 day goat / sheep trips!

[vortex hunter]

You might want to take a bigger gun and more toilet paper. That list is for a backpack hunt, if you are hunting grizz out of a truck/quads you can have a much better camp.

Carl


Hey Carl

Yeah we might be near the truck BUT I want to hike up high and traverse the mountian and find a big G not just a shooter... I do carry a BIG gun 300 win mag with 180g Barnes tsx bullets.. and bring'in lots of beer due to this hunt being my STAG .....:-D

[BCrams]

and bring'in lots of beer due to this hunt being my STAG .....:-D

In that case, I understand the MR packs come with cup holders on the hip belt for your beer :lol:

[RJ]

BCrams,
how many cubic inches is the barney hunter?
I was almost sold on the MR 6500 but you've thrown a nice wrench into that plan :-D
I do like the overall look of the pinnacle but it is pretty massive.

[bigwhiteys]

I own both an MR 6500 and a Barney "Hunter".

When I have 100 or so miles on the Barney I'll write a detailed review for it. Right now, I am at about 35 training miles with the pack, and it's loaded with 80lbs (started at 50). I am comparing the packs side-by-side going up in weight gradually and completing a few miles hiking with each weight.

They each have their own pros and cons.

With the MR if you are a skinny guy, or don't fit the waistbelt right you will be in a world of misery with any weight in the pack.

As for size the MR is 6500 cubic inches. The barney hunter is 6800. We are talking a difference of about the size of a milk jug. So very little difference in available space. The pockets are a different layout too, I prefer the Barney pocket layout, as they seem easier to access then the MR when loaded.

They also carry the loads very differently. The MR carries closer and tighter to your back, while the Barney is a little looser of a carry, but holds the load really high on your back to allow for the cargo shelf.

The Barney doesn't do as well in thicker brush, the MR doesn't get hung up as much with a tighter profile.

There is lots more to write about in comparing these two packs, but I want more time with the Barney loaded up. I've had 120 lbs in each for a short distance and it sucks either way! 120lbs is 120lbs.

These packs don't defy gravity!

The best bet for anyone is to TRY each pack on, loaded up and make your decision, tough to do, but it's your money! If anyone on the island wants to see either pack, and try them on loaded up just let me know.

I work from home, just send a PM and you can pop by or meet around Nanaimo/Qualicum.

Carl

[kennyj]

Thats a great offer Carl.
kenny

[leadpillproductions]

Ive been looking for a pic of the basic mr6500 without all the extra's to see what you get. Any one have a pic of there's they could show me .
What im tryng to find out does the pack have a regular type bag that you can load you gear in or do you need the nice load cell's

[RJ]

Great post Carl, maybe Ill hold off for a few months till you get that review put together :-D I was also checking out Kuiu's new carbon fiber packs. Those look pretty slick but I can imagine them being in the 800-1000 dollar range. If I was on the island I would take you up on your offer.

[Devilbear]

I am not as experienced a sheep hunter as some here, but, I have several decades of intense heavy weight mountain backpacking experience and I have found the MR NICE and Expedition internal frame packs to be the best for 70+ lb. loads that I have ever used.

I have heard a lot of good things and a few bad comments about the Barney's packframe, but, have never seen one. I have broken a couple of the CampTrails Frieghter frames from which they were derived and b y whom they are made and I find that style of packframe to sway too easily in really steep country, so, my favourite is the discontinued and hard to locate Dana Design Loadmaster or Terraframe.

Both frame packs and internals along with the new "hybrids" such as the MR NICE and Kifaru Longhunters have their advantages and disadvantages and Carl has the right idea, get one good one of each, correctly fitted to YOU by someone who knows how to fit packs and you are set for anything.

[Devilbear]

Great post Carl, maybe Ill hold off for a few months till you get that review put together :-D I was also checking out Kuiu's new carbon fiber packs. Those look pretty slick but I can imagine them being in the 800 dollar range. If I was on the island I would take you up on your offer.

If, you are in Vancouver or come here sometimes, I will show you mine and I have several highend packs, Danas, MRs and so forth. Several members here have come to my home and received assistance with pack choice and I can tell within minutes exactly what size you will require. Just PM and give me a couple days notice, glad to help anyone here who wishes my assistance.

[bigwhiteys]

I was also checking out Kuiu's new carbon fiber packs. Those look pretty slick but I can imagine them being in the 800-1000 dollar range. If I was on the island I would take you up on your offer.
I think Jason is onto a good thing with the KUIU lineup but I think they went a little too small on the larger pack (5500 ci).

Carl

[Fosey]

I never hunt in the mountains without lots of water or have experience that there is lots of water at my destination. I use drops to disinfect water and have drank some nasty stuff. I have never been able to get my pack below 55 lbs for a 10-14 day hunt. It is interesting one of the best old sheep hunters in alaska, Duncan Gilchrist says his pack and his partners weighed 23 lbs. A couple of things he does is packs a daily ration bag with freeze dried food, matches,soap pad, toilet paper, instant coffee, everything you need for the day in a plastic bag. One bag for each day of the trip. His list includes:

JOINT USE
tent
pocket knife
skinning knife
steel
4 lbs salt
3 game bags
visqueen
spotting scope
gun oil
camera and film
2 forks, knives and spoons
gas stove and funnel
1 gal. white gas
fry pan
2 empty coffee cans for cooking
1/4" tape
2 lighters
flashlight
8 band aid, aspirins
tube hand soap
daily ration bags

PERSONAL
sleeping bag
rifle
shells(20)
license
rain gear
1 pair pants
1 shirt
8 pair light and heavy socks
1 pair shorts
toothbrush and toothpaste
long johns
jacket
pack
nylon cord
This with food and all comes to 23 lbs not including rifle. This is a excert from one of his books.

When I backpack we double up on alot of things and little things add up to more pounds. Sometimes him and his partner only took one rifle. As I get older I have to do something to lower the pack weight because it is just too much and I still want to sheep hunt.

[BCrams]

BCrams,
how many cubic inches is the barney hunter?
I was almost sold on the MR 6500 but you've thrown a nice wrench into that plan :-D
I do like the overall look of the pinnacle but it is pretty massive.

First off. Packs can be like vehicles or guns. It boils down to personal preference.

That said, a little closer look at the Barney pack. These packs are not new on the market and have been around for quite a while.

You just need to google up these packs on Alaska hunting forums. Hunters / guides widely use the Barney and will never change packs again for hunting.

The Pinnacle bag is massive and a bit too much for me but some guys really like the extra packing space.

The Barney is 6800 cu.

Guys who use the Barney packs use them for a good reason, and that they work. You should PM Alpine85 / Mattb and get a perspective. Hardcore guys in their own right ... one had a Barney and the other had a MR on a sheep hunt. Also ask Rubicon what a sheep guide in the Yukon thought of the Barney he took up vs his MR when packing sheep. They were able to try them in actual field conditions between the two with loaded sheep and the Barney won out :-D

No need to ask me because you know what I'm going to say when I've used my Barney successfully since 2004 and over 2000 miles training combined let alone all the mileage put on 14 day hunts from the east slopes clear over to the NW corner into the rock pit and a few rams loaded up to boot. I've seen all packs and when it comes down to it, the Barney consistently won out for sheep hunts. Reliable and dependable.

If I personally know anyone who has abused backpacks and the Barney, its Deaddog. He's busted up packs in one trip yet he hasn't managed to do that to the Barney in a few years of use sheep and elk hunting up the Tuchodi / Muskwa.

We're using what works for us, and in this case, thats sheep hunting. No field testing involved.

Bottom line ... if you have to pack a ram 10-20 miles back to the lake. Heavy is heavy and 120 lbs is 120 lbs but that Barney gives that extra carrying comfort over MR. Thats a serious pro / con to look at.

Sure an external can hang up a little here and there in thick bush but I can also say its a minor con based on all the areas I've hunted and used one. It hasn't deterred or slowed me down one bit. One usually spends more time above treeline on a sheep hunt than one does below tree line and more often than not, there's horse trails, game trails to take advantage of.

I've seen loaded MR packs and my loaded Barney. The Hunter and Pinnacle are the ones that can be loaded 2 days into a hunt with a ram without having to tie stuff onto the outside. You'll be lashing stuff to the outside of the MR pack to make room.

The only disadvantage I've seen so far is if you want to have a pack for other hunting (i.e., 2-4 day trips, deer hunting, elk hunting) then I can see the MR having the advantage as I sure wouldn't want to be sneaking through timber with an external frame pack for deer or elk. :wink:




I have heard a lot of good things and a few bad comments about the Barney's packframe, but, have never seen one. I have broken a couple of the CampTrails Frieghter frames from which they were derived and b y


You are correct in 'derived' from the old frames and they're sure junky when you put one next to the Barney frames. What you don't realize is the different aluminum and aircraft grade pins etc they have used for years on the Barney. Indestructable. The hip belt and shoulder pads are much different as well with pull tabs to avoid the swaying you experienced in the old days .... the Barney has been around more than 10 years .... I'm surprised you havn't at least seen one before now :mrgreen:

[livingston]

Anybody ever use a granite gear stratus flatbed pack?

I saw one in a hunting mag its just a bagless pack frame with a front compression system.The guy used compression dry bags for his gear in it.And looked great for packing quarters. They have some good looking packs for dogs too.

[Kody94]

Guys who use the Barney packs use them for a good reason, and that they work. You should PM Alpine85 / Mattb and get a perspective they got this year. Hardcore guys in their own right ... one had a Barney and the other had a MR. Also ask Rubicon what a sheep guide in the Yukon thought of the Barney he took up vs his MR when packing sheep. They were able to try them in actual field conditions between the two with loaded sheep and the Barney won out

If I personally know anyone who has abused backpacks and the Barney, its Deaddog. He's busted up packs in one trip yet he hasn't managed to do that to the Barney in a few years of use sheep and elk hunting up the Tuchodi / Muskwa.


I'd like to hear it from those guys too....have they posted a their experiences or a review of the Barney vs MR on here? Hopefully they check this thread out and speak up.

I'd love to check out the Barney sometime. A fella I know was hot and bothered to check out my Mystery Ranch, so I brought mine to a place where he could...he subsequently bought Mystery Ranch packs and now I hear he has bought a couple Barneys too, but I haven't heard an offer for me to take a look at them. ;) I'd like to hear what he says about the two packs, cuz I know his packs don't just collect dust. I think he mostly just comes on HBC to chuck rocks though. :p

Rams...I won't argue with you on the fantastical attributes of the Barney Hunter, of which you do wax so eloquently, but I will say that IMHO you sell the MR pack way short. Its much better than a weekend elk/deer pack.

[spear]

What do you guys think of some of the recreational packs out there eg
Gregory
Deuter
Osprey etc.

[wildcatter]

I have a Camp Trails Moosebag with a sturdy external frame and a shelf near the bottom, I carried some pretty heavy stuff but only 3 days max.
It has 2 outside pockets, perhaps I could attach a couple more to make it more versatile.
I wonder if anybody used it for sheep or goat hunting, if yes what's your experience?

[bigwhiteys]

Here's a big pro / con I really look at. I've seen loaded MR packs and my loaded Barney. The Hunter and Pinnacle are the ones that can be loaded 2 days into a hunt with a ram without having to tie stuff onto the outside. You'll be tieing stuff to the outside of the MR pack to make room.


There is a difference in storage capacity of 300ci, about the size of a gallon milk jug. Not quite enough space to make the difference you are implying in my opinion.

MR definitely has issues if you don't fit the pack right, I experienced that this year, after losing lots of weight on the hunt and the waist belt was no longer tight enough. My back/shoulders were sore for several days after a 10 mile march.

The Barney waist belt seems nice and tight, but the MR waistbelt is definitely more comfortable for me, under load once it's fit properly.

The Barney shoulder straps are the cats a$$ of shoulder straps though, thats for sure. They are very thick and cushioned, way moreso than the MR straps.

The MR has plenty of belts, straps, buckles and MOLLE webbing on the outside in case you DO have to strap stuff to the outside (from their military use background) The Barney only has 5 straps w/buckles but you can always tie direct to the frame. The list goes on.

The best piece of advice I can give anyone wanting to buy one of these packs is to ignore the advice, try the packs out for yourself loaded and buy the one that fits you best. You could be short and fat, tall and thin, tall and fat, short and ugly who knows... They will fit and ride different.

Your the guy thats gotta pack it. I have both and can see where each could be used in situations where it's going to be better than the other. If you can only afford 1 pack and you would be using it for all your hunts the MR seems more versatile.

If all you do is pack 120lb+ loads everywhere you go then the Barney is the way to go.

Carl

[BCrams]

Rams...I won't argue with you on the fantastical attributes of the Barney Hunter, of which you do wax so eloquently, but I will say that IMHO you sell the MR pack way short. Its much better than a weekend elk/deer pack.

I guess with the experience of the Barney, I should try out a MR pack for an extended trip :-D I have always thought the MR was a great pack but once beyond 7-8 days, I get skeptical.

I'm open minded but having used and seen the other packs except the MR on a trip, its a tough sell to convince me to change packs right now.

[Kody94]

I guess with the experience of the Barney, I should try out a MR pack for an extended trip :-D I have always thought the MR was a great pack but once beyond 7-8 days, I get skeptical.

I'm open minded but having used and seen the other packs except the MR on a trip, its a tough sell to convince me to change packs right now.
No-one is saying you need to change packs, I'm just saying that your selling the MR short.

[Kody94]

Bigwhiteys, its also not fair to compare both the Barney Pinnacle and Hunter to the MR Nice 6500. If one is going to slag the MR pack, it would be prudent to note that the 7500 actually has more internal capacity than the Barney Hunter.

[BCrams]

Your the guy thats gotta pack it. I have both and can see where each could be used in situations where it's going to be better than the other. If you can only afford 1 pack and you would be using it for all your hunts the MR seems more versatile.

Carl

Thats always been my take on it. The MR is more verstatile for all hunting situations whereas I will only use the Barney for the 2 week sheep hunts and a pack frame left in camp for elk etc.

If a guy wants 1 pack just for sheep hunting, thats my pick.

We all agree it comes down to personal preference and fit / comfort. I'm just biased in favour of the Barney for 10-16 day hunts.

[bigwhiteys]

Bigwhiteys, its also not fair to compare both the Barney Pinnacle and Hunter to the MR Nice 6500. If one is going to slag the MR pack, it would be prudent to note that the 7500 actually has more internal capacity than the Barney Hunter.

I am not slagging either, I own both!

Carl

[BromBones]

I'm pretty sold on the Badlands Ox pack after borrowing my buds to haul meat out last fall. Their 4500 internal frame was no good for heavy loads (lots of reports of breakage as the frame would not hold up well over 70-80 lbs) and I think the Ox pack is their answer to the issue. Certainly was comfortable with a 120 lb quarter strapped on. I think they might be on to something with the curved frame rails, keeps the weight tight to your back. The shoulder straps adjust for your torso height which is nice.

The meat rack is built-in between the main bag and the frame. When you need to pack meat, you loosen the main bag from the frame, stuff your head/cape, and de-doned meat in game bags on the rack and suck it up tight to the frame. Once that's secured you cinch the main bag back up against the meat rack and tighten the piss out of it, and you've got a pretty solid/secure load.

The volume is probably smaller (4500 cu.in) than most guys like for a 2 week hunt. Bulky gear like tents/pads/sleeping bag would have to be strapped outside, but my dog usually carries that stuff so for me that doesn't matter. I plan on putting one to the test this year.

[RJ]

I appreciate the info guys, definitely some food for thought.

[Devilbear]

I was almost killed when climbing in Evans Creek Canyon while solo trekking across the Valhallas in 1975, this was while carrying my Fjallraven Expedition Frame Pack and that was then THE finest pack available of it's type. That was the LAST time I used an external frame pack in really steep country such as the West Kootenays, I prefer to come home alive.

I have owned and used packs of various types made by the best American, Canadian and European makers, made my living fitting them and have over 50 years of carrying packs all over BC and some of Alberta. NO pack I have ever seen is ideal for every situation and some compromise is always part of the equation.

I am very well aware that the Barney's is a much more solidly built rig than the frames it was derived from, I was just talking to Bob of Barney's a week or two before Christmas. But, the basic design issues are the same and the MR NICE and, especially, my almost 8500 cu. in. BDSB internal from MR ride closer to your spine and are thus more stable in really difficult climbing situations.

As I posted, the best idea is to have both and use them as you find they work best in your hunting; I would buy a Barney's tomorrow, but, at my age, what I now have will work for my remaining years of hunting and other mountain activities. If, I were to buy another pack, it would be an Inex Expedition "full Dyneema" pack custom built to my specs by Dan Mchale in Seattle, but, given the cost, it would be a foolish extravagance at this time of life.

If, anyone has a Barney's and would like to let me check it out and even do some gear trading and I have gobs of top stuff, let me know by PM, this is one pack I would really like to use as so many knowledgeable guys here and on other worthwhile forums are so happy with theirs.

[bighornbob]

I guess with the experience of the Barney, I should try out a MR pack for an extended trip :-D I have always thought the MR was a great pack but once beyond 7-8 days, I get skeptical.

I'm open minded but having used and seen the other packs except the MR on a trip, its a tough sell to convince me to change packs right now.

Maybe you should kill sheep in the first week instead of waiting to the last minute:mrgreen:

When are you going to leave the tiny sheep of the north and come south and hunt with the big boys:mrgreen:

BHB

[BCrams]

Devilbear .... for what its worth, I had one of those old camptrails pack years ago that "swung" with weight if you were not careful. Needless to say, I had a fall on a sheep hunt that after I extricated myself from the bent pack, broken pins and all, that I was just happy I had nothing broken. It was that incident that caused me to start packing ski poles and the eventual transition to the hiking poles when they came on the market.

The Barney is definatly way more solid and does have adjustable should straps as well but as with any heavy load with any pack, get on the wrong side of momentum or a miss-step and you'll fall.

[troutseeker]

I guess with the experience of the Barney, I should try out a MR pack for an extended trip :-D I have always thought the MR was a great pack but once beyond 7-8 days, I get skeptical.

I'm open minded but having used and seen the other packs except the MR on a trip, its a tough sell to convince me to change packs right now.

Simple way to make this happen, I'll just tag along on your and SSS's hunt this coming August! You can try my Mystery Ranch then.:-D

[BCrams]

Maybe you should kill sheep in the first week instead of waiting to the last minute:mrgreen:

When are you going to leave the tiny sheep of the north and come south and hunt with the big boys:mrgreen:

BHB

One of these years I'll change it up and try for a rocky. Love that north country!

[bigwhiteys]

but as with any heavy load with any pack, get on the wrong side of momentum or a miss-step and you'll fall.


Very true... We've been in situations, with loaded packs where the country is so steep, you are climbing on your hands and knees as you lunge forward to the next foothold the pack is hitting the rocks above you before you can get a good hand hold, you've got your hiking poles in one hand, trying to climb with the other... Those ones make my heart beat 50 times really fast as you scramble to get hold, or then the shale gives, the rock moves etc... Danger Bay!

Carl

[vortex hunter]

Very true... We've been in situations, with loaded packs where the country is so steep, you are climbing on your hands and knees as you lunge forward to the next foothold the pack is hitting the rocks above you before you can get a good hand hold, you've got your hiking poles in one hand, trying to climb with the other... Those ones make my heart beat 50 times really fast as you scramble to get hold, or then the shale gives, the rock moves etc... Danger Bay!

Carl

Hey Carl

Were in the lower mainland can you buy the mystery ranch packs ?

[troutseeker]

Ive been looking for a pic of the basic mr6500 without all the extra's to see what you get. Any one have a pic of there's they could show me .
What im tryng to find out does the pack have a regular type bag that you can load you gear in or do you need the nice load cell's

Ok, here is a MR6500. It has a large main compartment over a smaller compartment in which I put my sleeping bag, Exped Synmat 7 and some other stuff too. The outside of the pack has two long pockets, one gets my spotter and the other my tripod and the tent poles, plus raingear and other stuff. The main compartment is large, no need for load cels (they were designed for the Crewcab anyways), I use silnylon bags to keep my clothes, food, and stuff organized. As a bonus they can be used to transport and store water.

It's tough to take a decent picture of the inside of the pack but I hope you get the idea.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_21551.JPG

This one is of the pack loosely loaded (still lots of room to stuff gear into it). That is a 5 gallon bucket beside it and my Remington 700 Titanium .300WSM (24" barrel) to give you an idea of scale:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_21601.JPG

Side view:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_2161.JPG

The harness side:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_21622.JPG

I am getting long pockets to attach to each side of the pack for added storage and versatility in accessing stuff I use all the time.

Hope this helps!:-D

[Stone Sheep Steve]

TS- You must be expecting to see lots of game taking a big bucket of bullets like that. I try to limit myself to one full ice cream pail:wink:.

SSS

[Deaddog]

I have used internal and external frame packs, for me the Barneys has been the only pack that would stand up over a period of time to the level I need it to.. The barneys can hold all the weight and more than I can pack, it has served us well for packing fairly large loads of meat for many hours, it also has worked well for getting our camps into remote places, I remove the top bar when in steep country for climbing purposes, as far as fit goes it has plenty of adjustments to make the pack "fit" to your body, my experience has been that lots of people have packs that will fit properly , they just lack the experience or knowledge of how to make it fit...The majority of our party has now switched to these packs...at this point in my hunting career, barneys is the way to go..

[Devilbear]

For the poster who asked, Mystery Ranch packs are not sold in stores in Canada and are best purchased by phoning them and discussing your needs. The NICE 6500 combo is the most versatile and, with Long Pockets and a couple Fliptop boxes, will cost you $900.00+ delivered in BC. There are two similar models, the 7500 is the largest and these packs will outlast you, my oldest and heavily used pack from the maker of MR is now pushing 33 years old and is in excellent shape.

The same situation obtains with the Barney's, one must buy them from Barney's Sports Chalet in Alaska; they are very nice people to deal with and they stock the best gear, Integral Designs, Hilleberg, and other state of the art equipment that makes a tough hunt both easier and safer.

Look at the NICE systems and the Kodiak internal, my BDSB is the original version of this, made for the US Navy Seals and is simply a fabulous pack, slightly more capable under really heavy loads than the Kodiak due to a heavier frame.

These and the expedition McHales are the only internals I hav found that will carry 75+ lb. loads in comfort; I have had US-made Gregory Denali, two Kifarus, Lowe Alpine Systems US-made, several CampTrails, Fjallraven, Karrimore from the UK in the days when they were worldclass and used Arcteryx, and a number of others. I wouldn't own a WW and none of the above have equaled the MRs for durability and comfort under heavy loads, this is 100+ lbs.

Guys like Deaddog, BCRams and other totally obsessed sheepists here have a lot of good advice and I would really listen to what they say and also am awaiting Carl's comments on his Barney's. A good frame pack will always be easier to carry really heavy and awkward loads with while a good internal will be better in climbing, skiing, wriggling through Devil's Club and can be worn on a horse. Several options and I am not as impressed by some of the emerging very light "cool" packs as others might be, but, I am not spending my coin on trippy camo clothing from "boutique" makers, either.

[Kody94]

I have used internal and external frame packs, for me the Barneys has been the only pack that would stand up over a period of time to the level I need it to.. The barneys can hold all the weight and more than I can pack, it has served us well for packing fairly large loads of meat for many hours, it also has worked well for getting our camps into remote places, I remove the top bar when in steep country for climbing purposes, as far as fit goes it has plenty of adjustments to make the pack "fit" to your body, my experience has been that lots of people have packs that will fit properly , they just lack the experience or knowledge of how to make it fit...The majority of our party has now switched to these packs...at this point in my hunting career, barneys is the way to go..

Thanks Deaddog. Always helps to get stuff "straight from the horse's mouth" as the saying goes.

Have you or your crew had a chance to compare head-2-head with the Mystery Ranch packs?

I ask because I have the MR already, but I'd really like to know if the Barney is really worth "upgrading" to.

[Kody94]

I am not slagging either, I own both!

Carl

Hi Carl,

I should have been more clear, but I was trying to post from my bberry, and the damn website kept logging me out between starting a reply and pressing the post button! So I was too quick...

I was agreeing with your response to BCRams, and adding that from a capacity perspective, he was making an unfair comparison. Thought you might want to make that clear in your review when you are done the testing.

Cheers
Chris

[troutseeker]

TS- You must be expecting to see lots of game taking a big bucket of bullets like that. I try to limit myself to one full ice cream pail:wink:.

SSS

Heck yeah! From what I read in your and BC Rams story, one get's jumped by sheep all the time and charged by grizzlies too. So I have lot's of ammo to practice quick reloads and for the "pray and spray" shooting I'm bound to do in them thare mountains!!!

I hope you noticed I have a target setup in my basement...:mrgreen:

From what you and BC Rams say, I' surprised you do any hunting at all. Seems that you are out there on a culinary delight expedition, eating jerky bits and ice cream...

[BCrams]

Hi Carl,

I was agreeing with your response to BCRams, and adding that from a capacity perspective, he was making an unfair comparison. Thought you might want to make that clear in your review when you are done the testing.

Cheers
Chris

The 'bag' capacity is a little more but as Carl says, not much more than a milk jug. At the same time, you can also picture your food bag as being a bit bigger than a milk jug for 8 days. Thats considerable space. With the Hunter .... myself and others have further improvised utilizing that 'space' outside the bag on the bottom by folding the bench in and securing the sleeping bag on bottom which combined leaves a lot of space inside the bag for boned sheep meat, cape etc.

You should get a look at your buddies Barney. It took Deaddog all of 2 minutes looking at mine in the parking lot of Timmies to decide to order 3 or 4 of them.

Here's an example when you get that ram early in a hunt and you have 12 days left....half a ram, cape and horns and a lot of miles to cover moving camp up and down mountains to the next planned camp to hunt a different range. Most know just how much food space there is with 2 weeks worth. By the time the food was gone, it was enough to take the remaining ram meat but it wasn't necessary as we only took 1 ram that trip and I carried my share. Some of you may recognize my good buddy here. We were cautious in one area with lots of grizzly sign ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/BCrams/IMG_1737-1.jpg

[bighornbob]

The 'bag' capacity is a little more but as Carl says, not much more than a milk jug. However, with the Hunter .... myself and others have improvised utilizing that 'space' outside the bag on the bottom by folding the bench in and securing the sleeping bag on bottom which combined leaves a considerable amount of space inside the bag for boned sheep meat, cape etc.

You should get a look at your buddies Barney. It took Deaddog all of 2 minutes looking at mine in the parking lot of Timmies to decide to order 3 or 4 of them.


I hope they make their back packs better then what they do with their website. They have been updating it for over 2 years now.:confused:

BHB

[TriggerMag]

Would the Tatonka Lastenkraxe be worth looking into if one could get a good deal on it?

[Devilbear]

My opinion is that the Tatonka is an excellent pack and value for the price; however, there are better options for serious wilderness backpack hunting.

Do any of you Barney's users live in the Lower Mainland as I am stuck here for about another two years and would love to check one out,,,can provide BEER in payment!

[bigwhiteys]

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_2161.JPG


Is this going to be your final pack job? My MR fully loaded up, is smaller and with a lower profile.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/mrpackloaded.jpg

This is on day 1 of my last hunt. The pack is loaded up, but I still have all the room that the main compartment extends, which is quite a bit more., the bag is also not expanded all the way, front/back. It's got plenty of room.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/mrpackloaded2.jpg

Here is the pack after several days hunting, it's deflated quite a bit now that we've eaten most of our food. Plenty of room for a ram.


myself and others have improvised utilizing that 'space' outside the bag on the bottom by folding the bench in and securing the sleeping bag on bottom which combined leaves a considerable amount of space inside the bag for boned sheep meat, cape etc.


The MR has a large lower compartment... It's just fully covered, and not a meat shelf like the barneys. My valandre sleeping bag compresses to about the size of a large nalgene, and can fit in an outer pocket, or the main compt. if needed.

My clothes, sleeping bag and sleeping pad, can all fit in the lower compartment, leaving the upper for just meat,cape,horns.

My tent always rides on the back, strapped on.

Carl

[BCrams]

Do any of you Barney's users live in the Lower Mainland as I am stuck here for about another two years and would love to check one out,,,can provide BEER in payment!


I might have to come to Vancouver before spring and if you havn't seen one before then, I'll bring both packs down.

If anyone is in the Prince George area or you're passing through Prince George on a hunt and wish to see these packs. We can arrange for you to see both the Barney Hunter and Pinnacle here.

[tankster]

i have the elberstock dragon fly. i went on a 7 day sheep hunt this year. my pack was 60 pounds without water. when i killed my sheep. i pulled out my spike duffel the whole sheep debones fit perfectly in it. horns and cape on main pack. i would suggest this system for everyone

[bigwhiteys]

i have the elberstock dragon fly. i went on a 7 day sheep hunt this year. my pack was 60 pounds without water. when i killed my sheep. i pulled out my spike duffel the whole sheep debones fit perfectly in it. horns and cape on main pack. i would suggest this system for everyone
You must be lying!!! BCR say it isn't so!!!

That's the "personal preference" part chiming in...

My old man, who's probably packed more sheep off the mountains than anyone on this site used to pack an entire boned out ram, with cape and horns into a daypack. He usually had horses waiting at the bottom too mind you. Something I constantly remind him about when he's ribbing us.

Carl

[BCrams]

You must be lying!!! BCR say it isn't so!!!

That's the "personal preference" part chiming in...

Carl

He's a liar Carl :mrgreen:





http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/mrpackloaded.jpg

This is on day 1 of my last hunt. The pack is loaded up, but I still have all the room that the main compartment extends, which is quite a bit more., the bag is also not expanded all the way, front/back. It's got plenty of room.

Packed for 7-8 days max or for 14 days? My prior photo was day 2 with ram loaded of a 14 day hunt.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/mrpackloaded2.jpg

The MR has a large lower compartment... It's just fully covered, and not a meat shelf like the barneys. My valandre sleeping bag compresses to about the size of a large nalgene, and can fit in an outer pocket, or the main compt. if needed.

Don't use the meat shelf unless you're just base camping and packing the ram back to camp or just packing enough for day forays with potential spike. Thats the advantage it has holding everything higher up on your back. Clothes etc as you pointed out ride in the bottom below the inside flap and your tent, food, stove, meat, cape and horns on top and whatever else you need fits in the main compartment.



End of 14 day trip (food depleted). Entire ram and gear except a quarter I carried (Dad was too stubborn and wanted to do it himself and wouldn't off load more sheep weight). Nothing outside pack and as you can see, lots more room to expand pack and top load more.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/BCrams/IMG_0632.jpg

[bigwhiteys]

Packed for 7-8 days max or for 14 days? My prior photo was day 2 with ram loaded of a 14 day hunt.

That is packed with 8 days of food, the only additional supplys for an extended trip would be food for each additional day, and there is plenty of room for that in the bottom comp, or top.

You are splitting hairs with your 300ci in pack space difference. It's not that much. The MR hip pockets nearly carry that put together.

They carry differently, I'll give you that but at this point, there isn't a clear winner for me yet.

Carl

[tankster]

did i mention i like to pack firewood with me too. a couple 14 inch blocks of dry dry larch will last me 4 days

[BCrams]

That is packed with 8 days of food, the only additional supplys for an extended trip would be food for each additional day, and there is plenty of room for that in the bottom comp, or top.

They carry differently, I'll give you that but at this point, there isn't a clear winner for me yet.

Carl

Personal preference only - I don't like having things dangling or bulking off the hip belt. I'd have shot the water bottle you have off the side swinging like a pendulum within a day. (tried it just once with a smaller nalgene).

They do and will carry different. I've heard a lot of good things about the MR ranch and how comfortable it is to carry gear.

To be honest, I'd have to see what packing a ram is like in a MR over considerable distance to make a judgement call for myself. Initial reports from a couple seriously hardcore guys (more than you and I even) where a MR and Barney were on the same trip weighed in favour of the Barney after a ram was down and knowing these guys personally and having hunted with them, I'm taking their word on it.

A very good external and very good internals are all going to feel good packing 50-65 lbs no matter what with the advantage going to internals which I totally know because I do a lot of recreational backpacking in the mountains (along with my wife who's done alpine trips most sheep hunters couldn't handle) and I don't pack the Barney ;) Stone Chaser uses those internal packs and it obviously works really well for him sheep hunting and it suits his purpose!

At the end of the day, with all the recreational mountain hiking, backpacking, sheep hunts .... the Barney emerged early as the winner for me personally for those 2 week trips.

I have to say though, given the merrits of MR. I honestly think I'd like those packs for those shorter trips to start out with (i.e., doing off highway hunts where I'm only packing for 2-4 days worth of gear off the highway and back and going off on another couple 2-3 day stints into ram holes).

[Kody94]

The 'bag' capacity is a little more but as Carl says, not much more than a milk jug. At the same time, you can also picture your food bag as being a bit bigger than a milk jug for 8 days. Thats considerable space. With the Hunter .... myself and others have further improvised utilizing that 'space' outside the bag on the bottom by folding the bench in and securing the sleeping bag on bottom which combined leaves a lot of space inside the bag for boned sheep meat, cape etc.



Greg, my point was that you are comparing a 6800ci bag to a 6500ci bag....when one could easily counter that the MR 7500 should have much considerably more interior space than your Barney Hunter.

Or to be more direct, it is not logical to use bag capacity as justification to select a Barney brand pack over a Mystery Ranch brand pack.

Also, I have long pockets on each side of my MR pack, in addition to a flip top box and pouches on the waistbelt. If you add all that up, I am sure my MR 6500 has every bit as much capacity as your Barney Hunter, and is probably still a pound lighter. ;)

Carl may have missed your point a bit about the meat shelf/sleeping bag thing (ie. that its pack volume that doesn't count in the advertised cubic inches because its outside of the pack bag). But he is correct about the utility of that space on an MR pack (the lower compartment), especially considering the size of sleeping bags these days. I used to put my sleeping bag in the location you suggest when I was using my old Camptrails frame/Outfitter bag. But now I don't have a bag big enough to justify it....my bag compresses to nothing, and I can fit it, my down mat, some clothes and some food in the same amount of space that once was occupied by a sleeping bag...so having a compartment actually makes more sense than trying to strap those small items under the packbag somehow.

I hope to get a good look at a Barney's pack one of these days...I am hearing what you are saying, but I am not sure yet that its worth changing packs over.

My other point above is that folks need to realize that we are talking about the two best packs out there. Implying that the second best pack is only good for two to four day elk or deer hunts is a mis-characterization. Hopefully all realize that you are just saying that the MR pack would actually be your choice of the two for that type of the hunt (ie you might prefer an MR pack for the shorter hunt) and not that the MR is unsuitable for 14 to 16 day expedition hunts (ie. its just not your choice of the two for that hunt).

[luckynuts]

Awesome read Guys!

Greg, Carl keep the comparison's coming along with pics:-D One question I have for all you die hard mountain hunters is how many of you do later hunts end of Sept early Oct. Where you can't get away with a -5 sleeping bag and your light weight clothing. I would love to see some of your gear lists for those later hunts and see what your pack weights end up being.

BCBillies careful side hilling with those BD poles my partner bent one when he had a slip. So far mine have been great though.

Keep up the conversation guys
Thanks

W.

[BCrams]

Greg, my point was that you are comparing a 6800ci bag to a 6500ci bag....when one could easily counter that the MR 7500 should have much considerably more interior space than your Barney Hunter.


Very true. Especially when you consider the cu of the Barney Pinnacle as well.



Or to be more direct, it is not logical to use bag capacity as justification to select a Barney brand pack over a Mystery Ranch brand pack.


I think you're missing that I do not use capacity whatsoever as a reason for using a bag. Overall utilization of the pack is what comes to mind on a sheep hunt and the layout design. Capacity is just a small part of the piece. If we were to suggest a pack for multi use / purposes with large capacity, even the Barney doesn't get my vote. We're mostly talking just one thing, and thats packing gear and utilization for sheep hunting which includes after the ram is down. The user of a MR pack told me the pack is awsome and packs great going in. I've never doubted that at all. Carrying a heavy ram load, he concluded his partners Barney worked better under heavy loads and he was wishing he had one after using the Barney for a few miles.

To me personally, that is what is important. Those comments really resonate considering they're hardcore sheep hunters as well. Just about every modern high end backpack on the market with comparable space these days will pack comfortable up to 45-65 lbs.

Until I get a new sleeping bag as you pointed out (the one I have is ancient and has seen alot of time in the mountains) that compacts smaller and yes there's plenty of room room inside the backpack for it. Until then, my lightweight sleeping bag which is bulky / heavy by today's standards will have to be lashed under. SSS however, was able to stuff his inside.

[bigwhiteys]

Personal preference only - I don't like having things dangling or bulking off the hip belt. I'd have shot the water bottle you have off the side swinging like a pendulum within a day. (tried it just once with a smaller nalgene).

haha I don't even notice the Nalgene there. It doesn't swing at all when full of water. It's the easiest place to access and put away the bottle for me as I don't have the mobility in my shoulders (rugby injuries) to reach back with a full pack and pull a water bottle out of the side pockets and I don't like having camelbaks or bladders inside my bag.


To be honest, I'd have to see what packing a ram is like in a MR over considerable distance to make a judgement call for myself.

You could always use it as an excuse to shoot a dink! "well, I needed to shoot this ram, because I am testing a pack you see..." :)

we've made clear 120lbs is 120lbs.
we know the packs don't defy gravity.
we know that it boils down to personal preference on "fit" & "feel"

It's unfortunate for the people that want to buy these packs that Barneys or MR don't have a larger network of dealers, or even boutique shops that carry their gear or at least FIT the gear with demo models, and then the owner of the shop that fit the user gets a little $$ for their time win/win.

Any of these packs are $$$ to buy sight unseen, hence why I am doing my own comparison, based on my own use and publishing it on my site.


Carl may have missed your point a bit about the meat shelf/sleeping bag thing (ie. that its pack volume that doesn't count in the advertised cubic inches because its outside of the pack bag). But he is correct about the utility of that space on an MR pack (the lower compartment), especially considering the size of sleeping bags these days.

My old synthetic sleeping weighed about 4lbs, and along with the sleeping pad nearly took the entire MR lower compartment up. I upgraded to the Valandre bag which weighs 2lbs, and takes less than 1/2 the space. Now I can see how useful the comp. really is.

http://bchuntingblog.com/wp-content/gallery/reviews/bloodymarycompressed.jpg

Carl

[Kody94]

My pics aren't great, but here are a few of my MR NICE 6500 in use...

Loaded up for a 5 day spike out from a base camp...there was plenty of room, as one would expect, for adding a sheep if necessary. I had lots of cold/wet weather gear and a fairly skookum sleeping bag on this trip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/SheepHuntAug9-182009pack.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/SheepHuntAug9-182009225.jpg

A little better view of it, but not full (you can see my solo tent in the background)..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/SheepHuntAug9-182009192.jpg

Here's day 2 of an 8 day hiking trip (not the same gear as a sheep hunt, for sure)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/MR_pack.jpg

[Kody94]

I think you're missing that I do not use capacity whatsoever as a reason for using a bag.

That's not how I read your commentary above.

Overall utilization of the pack is what comes to mind on a sheep hunt and the layout design. Capacity is just a small part of the piece.

Agreed.

The user of a MR pack told me the pack is awsome and packs great going in. I've never doubted that at all. Carrying a heavy ram load, he concluded his partners Barney worked better under heavy loads and he was wishing he had one after using the Barney for a few miles.

I'd like to know more...could he pinpoint the difference? Did the waistbelt not fit correctly? Is he using too small of a yoke on his MR? Was it the thicker shoulder padding on the Barney? Did he just prefer where the load sat with the Barney?

The first time I used my MR I wasn't doing back-flips, but since I have learned what adjustments I needed to make (larger yoke, better ascender adjustment, etc), it feels MUCH better under load now.

I wouldn't want to make a decision to upgrade to the Barney based on a persons preference, if I wasn't sure that he had at least considered what might be wrong with the set up on his MR when he was comparing.

To me personally, that is what is important. Those comments really resonate considering they're hardcore sheep hunters as well. Just about every modern high end backpack on the market with comparable space these days will pack comfortable up to 45-65 lbs.

I agree. That kind of feedback is gold....but I'd want to be sure that it was a fair comparison.

Until I get a new sleeping bag as you pointed out (the one I have is ancient and has seen alot of time in the mountains) that compacts smaller and yes there's plenty of room room inside the backpack for it. Until then, my lightweight sleeping bag which is bulky / heavy by today's standards will have to be lashed under. SSS however, was able to stuff his inside.

Thinking about it, I am sure one could utilize the space under the Barney bag regardless...a waterproof stuff sack with clothing or food comes quickly to mind.

[Kody94]

Carl, you mentioned that the waistbelt on the Barney was tighter, but maybe less comfortable....could you explain a little more? Does the Barney just have greater adjustability (ie. less padded area), and so is more "one-size-fits-all"?

[troutseeker]

[quote=bigwhiteys;825648]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_2161.JPG


Is this going to be your final pack job? My MR fully loaded up, is smaller and with a lower profile.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Hi Carl,

not my final pack job, lol, just stuffed the bag to show how big it can expand to. In my opinion there is tons of room for all the gear you'd need and a sheep if the stars align. Side pockets for better organizing, maybe. And it's pretty easy to tie stuff on hte outside with all these military style loops.

So far I've only used the pack on one 4 day hiking hunt. I had 48 pounds in there and it carried comfortably. Unfortunattely, the big 5X5 mulie would not let me get close enough to put an arrow in him, so no pack out with load...

I am very interested in your Valandre sleeping bag. I read the review on your web site, and it sounds like a great bag. Amazing how little room it takes to pack!

Cheers, Clude

[bigwhiteys]

Carl, you mentioned that the waistbelt on the Barney was tighter, but maybe less comfortable....could you explain a little more? Does the Barney just have greater adjustability (ie. less padded area), and so is more "one-size-fits-all"?
The Barney frame appears to be one-size-fits all. I can see where a larger guy would max out the waist belt, and some other solution would need to be applied.

The MR adjustable waistbelt could be fit to a much larger person.

The MR waistbelt has thicker padding, especially for the small of your back.

The Barney waistbelt interior has a very grippy rubberized coating, to stop slippage, which is a nice feature.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/waistbelts1.jpg

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/waistbeltsideside.jpg

The Barney waistbelt when tightened around your hips sort of has a bit of a natural curve to it that is supposed to rest on your hips.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/barneywaist.jpg

The shoulder straps on the Barney are clearly more padded, but I much prefer to have the load bearing on my hips/legs than my shoulders back.

http://bchuntingblog.com/mypics/barneystraps.jpg

With the MR being very cushy in the HIP area, and the Barney lacking. And Barney being very cushy in the SHOULDER area and MR lacking. A combination of the two would be awesome.

Carl

[Kody94]

Thanks Carl! That is very helpful to see like that!

I like to max out my ascenders and keep as much weight as possible off of my shoulders...and have it ride entirely on my hips/back and chest. Conceptually at least, it looks like the MR system would accomplish that best, or at least make it most comfortable.

I agree that a combination might be best. The thickly padded shoulder straps do like nice, and sure couldn't hurt!!

The "rubberized" hip belt makes a lot of sense...all of my packs, (incl. the MR) do tend to slip down my synthetic pants (or bib rainpants), etc, especially when I'm pushin a good bead...and require regular re-adjustment.

[BCrams]

The shoulder straps on the Barney are clearly more padded, but I much prefer to have the load bearing on my hips/legs than my shoulders back.

With the MR being very cushy in the HIP area, and the Barney lacking. And Barney being very cushy in the SHOULDER area and MR lacking. A combination of the two would be awesome.

Carl

Not a problem packing the Barney on the hips under regular loads and no weight on the shoulders.

The extra padding comes handy when you've got a sheep down and 120 lbs :-D or you're packing elk quarters. You're going to notice it on both hips and shoulders irregardless and more so with thin shoulder straps. The MR hip padding probably stays and rides better on the hips than the Barney but I havn't had too much trouble and thats where body type / hip fit comes into play.

A combination would work for sure.

Overall between the two packs. The MR offers way more versatality and use for an array of hunts. The Barney is a work horse pretty much made for one or two things.

Guys ask me what they should get. A MR or a Barney.

I ask them what they want to do with it and it usually entails a pack to do it all, short hunts, long hunts, deer, elk, goat, sheep and from overnighters through to longer trips. I tell them to go with the MR pack without hesitation.

If a fellow says he wants a pack for an annual 2 week sheep hunt and solely for sheep hunting with some other use like maybe packing elk or moose quarters. I recommend the Barney.

So a pack with more bang for your buck and getting use out of it other than sheep hunting - definatly the MR or other packs like eberlestock etc.

[Maxx]

Not a problem packing the Barney on the hips under regular loads and no weight on the shoulders.

The extra padding comes handy when you've got a sheep down and 120 lbs :-D or you're packing elk quarters. You're going to notice it on both hips and shoulders irregardless and more so with thin shoulder straps. The MR hip padding probably stays and rides better on the hips than the Barney but I havn't had too much trouble and thats where body type / hip fit comes into play.

A combination would work for sure.

Overall between the two packs. The MR offers way more versatality and use for an array of hunts. The Barney is a work horse pretty much made for one or two things.

Guys ask me what they should get. A MR or a Barney.

I ask them what they want to do with it and it usually entails a pack to do it all, short hunts, long hunts, deer, elk, goat, sheep and from overnighters through to longer trips. I tell them to go with the MR pack without hesitation.

If a fellow says he wants a pack for an annual 2 week sheep hunt and solely for sheep hunting with some other use like maybe packing elk or moose quarters. I recommend the Barney.

So a pack with more bang for your buck and getting use out of it other than sheep hunting - definatly the MR or other packs like eberlestock etc.


What do both of these packs weigh empty?

[bigwhiteys]

What do both of these packs weigh empty?
MR = Approx 9lbs
Barney "hunter" = Approx 11lbs.

That is with the frame included and no attachments. They are both heavy packs. There are many mass produced mountaineering packs on the market that are lighter with larger carrying capacities than these bags, but their frames cannot handle the weight 100+ consistently. I broke the frame of my lowe alpine with 100lbs. Ripped right through the bag :(

Carl

[pushbush]

How are you guys attaching your rifles to your packs. Are you using a kifaru gun bearer or attaching it straight to the pack. Would you be able to post up some pics of your setups.
Thanks.

[Maxx]

MR = Approx 9lbs
Barney "hunter" = Approx 11lbs.

That is with the frame included and no attachments. They are both heavy packs. There are many mass produced mountaineering packs on the market that are lighter with larger carrying capacities than these bags, but their frames cannot handle the weight 100+ consistently. I broke the frame of my lowe alpine with 100lbs. Ripped right through the bag :(

Carl


hummmm, seems to me that my kifaru, with the guide bag is about 7 pounds ( been a while since I weighed it) 11 pounds is too much IMO

I have carried some heavy loads with my Kifaru, as has been stated before it comes down to personal preference.



I carry my rifle with the Kifaru Gunbearer system, it works great for me!

[Deaddog]

Thanks Deaddog. Always helps to get stuff "straight from the horse's mouth" as the saying goes.

Have you or your crew had a chance to compare head-2-head with the Mystery Ranch packs?

I ask because I have the MR already, but I'd really like to know if the Barney is really worth "upgrading" to.


We have had mystery ranch packs in our groups as well as kifaru packs...I would say both those packs are great packs and as far as getting you and your gear into the sheep country they are equal of any pack... for us(me) the difference comes when we are packing a lot of meat, horns (elk in particular) the barneys packs are able to keep the weight more in the middle portion of your back (they have a zip in shelf) without having to go very high up, the kifaru/MR pack's with the same load seemed to sit higher thus being top heavy with big weight, changing the fit of the bag only seemed to put the weight on the guys butt....however if you are only packing your camp in and then taking a sheep out, returning to get your camp.. I believe they are all equal... The Barneys also has a gun carrying component that works well... in the end for me it is about the amount of weight I can pack with the Barney's and still be somewhat comfortable, they are tough bags that take the abuse....before buying one check out a Barney's .. I can drop mine off if I am going thru your town for you to check out... (or I can bring it to the sheep convention in march!!) DD

[Kody94]

We have had mystery ranch packs in our groups as well as kifaru packs...I would say both those packs are great packs and as far as getting you and your gear into the sheep country they are equal of any pack... for us(me) the difference comes when we are packing a lot of meat, horns (elk in particular) the barneys packs are able to keep the weight more in the middle portion of your back (they have a zip in shelf) without having to go very high up, the kifaru/MR pack's with the same load seemed to sit higher thus being top heavy with big weight, changing the fit of the bag only seemed to put the weight on the guys butt....however if you are only packing your camp in and then taking a sheep out, returning to get your camp.. I believe they are all equal... The Barneys also has a gun carrying component that works well... in the end for me it is about the amount of weight I can pack with the Barney's and still be somewhat comfortable, they are tough bags that take the abuse....before buying one check out a Barney's .. I can drop mine off if I am going thru your town for you to check out... (or I can bring it to the sheep convention in march!!) DD

That's an excellent review! Thanks for taking the time to share it. Much appreciated.

I'd love to check your pack out but I doubt you get through Cranbrook very often....so I'll try to make the Sheep Convention this year. :)

[spear]

Where is this sheep convention you speak of?
Anyone out there use packs non specific to hunting, sounds like Devilbear might have a few words on packs from the expedition world

[pushbush]

Are any of you guys using the load sling with your MR Nice Frame packs

[Kody94]

Where is this sheep convention you speak of?


Kamloops. March 18 to 20

check out their website... www.wildsheepsociety.net (http://www.wildsheepsociety.net)

[Rubicon500]

hummmm, seems to me that my kifaru, with the guide bag is about 7 pounds ( been a while since I weighed it) 11 pounds is too much IMO

I have carried some heavy loads with my Kifaru, as has been stated before it comes down to personal preference.



I carry my rifle with the Kifaru Gunbearer system, it works great for me!

For 8 day late season stone hunt , our barneys weighed 57 and 58 lbs
for early is usually 51-55 for 10 days
that is including gun , ill take the extra weight in the pack and cut it eles where.

[Maxx]

Kamloops. March 18 to 20

check out their website... www.wildsheepsociety.net (http://www.wildsheepsociety.net)


You actually gonna show one of these years??:-D

[Kody94]

You actually gonna show one of these years??:-D

Its been a loooong time alright. 2002 I think.

[Maxx]

Its been a loooong time alright. 2002 I think.


That means your overdue for buying everyone a drink... Hope you actually do make it this year.

[Alpine85]

A few years ago I was checking out a sheep thread on an Alaska hunting site. Throughtout the post's people kept talking about these "Barneys" packs. I ended up finding a local hunter who had just bought a Barneys pack, and schedule a parkin lot meeting to check it out:). The first thing I noticed was the heavy duty bag material (1000 cordura), this shit was not gonna rip. Looking at the pack I started going through my gear in my head; flat map pocket behind back, spotter and tripod in long side pouch, 2 smaller side pockets for first aid/gps/ranage finder, pocket on main flap cover for water bladder/rain gear, big center outside pocket for more organizing, gun scabbard between bag and side pockets, big main compartment with zip shelve (pocket to outside so you don't have to pull top gear out to get at gear in bottom). Upon further inspection I notcied the very comfortable shoulder straps abd grippy hip belt. The following week, my brother and I placed a order.

The Barneys has not let me down in anyway thus far and is working perfect for what I need. I do not own a MR nor have I put one through the test's I have my Barneys, that being said. Last July before our sheep hunt my partner bought a MR to use. On our multi day hike in all was well and I never heard a peep from him. After leaving that area and packing his ram and camp out ,we came to the conclusion that he would NOT be able to pack his whole ram alone. Hiking in we had all our gear for 17 days of backpacking(gear fit easy into both packs) and like most, had dreams of 2 twisters hitting the ground. After seeing the pain my partner went through with his MR pack with one ram/camp, I'm glad we didn't kill another ram as it probaly would of crippled him. I don't know why with the sub 70 lbs going in the pack was fine, but with the weight comming out he had to stop all the time to re-adjust. Maybe this pack was not set up completetly right, next time I will borrow him a Barneys cause I sure felt bad having a comfy pack out.

Have any of you MR guys had issue's with rip's in the material? When my brother was hunting sheep in N.W.T he said lots of the guys used MR packs, but lots also had duct tape patche's covering up rips.

If someone is looking for a pack to hunt muleys/elk do some goat and sheep hunts and is looking to buy a "jack of all trades" pack, then the MR will probaly be your best bet. My Barneys comes off the hanger when I load up for the annual sheep trip because I know my knees will blow out before that pack does.

Maybe one day I will replace my eberlestock with a MR pack, but for those 120+ lbs multi day trips out of the mountains I just can't see how a pack can carry the load better.

T

[bigwhiteys]

The first thing I noticed was the heavy duty bag material (1000 cordura), this shit was not gonna rip.


MR makes their hunting packs out of a 500d cordura, the 1000d is stronger, but more porous, let's water through. the 500d on the MR is still a very durable material.

The Barney I have is actually made out of a newer kevlar woven fabric, which as I understand contributes to the weight considerably but there is no disputing it's strength.


Have any of you MR guys had issue's with rip's in the material? When my brother was hunting sheep in N.W.T he said lots of the guys used MR packs, but lots also had duct tape patche's covering up rips.

Nope, no rips yet, and that's with some really abrasive use too.

Carl

[Alpine85]

Awesome read Guys!

Greg, Carl keep the comparison's coming along with pics:-D One question I have for all you die hard mountain hunters is how many of you do later hunts end of Sept early Oct. Where you can't get away with a -5 sleeping bag and your light weight clothing. I would love to see some of your gear lists for those later hunts and see what your pack weights end up being.

BCBillies careful side hilling with those BD poles my partner bent one when he had a slip. So far mine have been great though.

Keep up the conversation guys
Thanks

W.

Down Jacket-in pack
Champ Pants-wear
rain jacket+pants-in pack
150 icebreaker top-wear +1 in pack
260 icebreaker top- in pack
Thoro socks-wear+3 in pack
icebreaker boxer's-wear+1 in pack
icebreaker longjohns-in pack
gloves-wear
touque-in pack
Stands wool-in pack
Thats just over 7 pounds of clothes in your pack and this works for me for October Stone's

[RJ]

Im leaning more toward the Barney now. It does seem like if fits a pretty specific role though. Im thinking of doing the West Coast Trail with the old lady this summer as a test for some of my sheep gear. Would that pack be more of a pain in the ass in that type of setting?

[Slee]

Im leaning more toward the Barney now. It does seem like if fits a pretty specific role though. Im thinking of doing the West Coast Trail with the old lady this summer as a test for some of my sheep gear. Would that pack be more of a pain in the ass in that type of setting?



Is this the Barney's packs you guys are talking about???

http://store.barneyssports.com/FGAPBK.html

[Kody94]

Is this the Barney's packs you guys are talking about???

http://store.barneyssports.com/FGAPBK.html

That and the Alaska Hunter version (the one that it sounds like BCRams, Deaddog and Alpine85 are using).

Don't forget you need to purchase the $285 freighter frame too. Total will be $600+, plus exchange, shipping and taxes from customs.

The Mystery Ranch is similarly priced.

[KB90]

Why does the barney hunter look so funny, it's almost as if its missing the bottom of the bag? (at least compared to the pinnacle)

What am I missing here?

[Devilbear]

I would not by choice, use a large frame pack on the Westcoast Trail; this is an area where a good internal is much more comfortable when dealing with tree branches, blowdown, steep climbs and so forth.

As to MR packs durability, as I posted, my oldest of the 11 packs from Dana Gleason I have owned and used since about '78 has been rode hard and put away wet and has never blown a single stitch in all that time.

The fabric used in the NICE and BDSB packs I have, among the first to come into Canada, is used by the USN Seal Teams and is about the toughest I have yet seen. I doubt that most people would put any appreciable wear on one of these packs in a normal lifetime and I have never seen a Dana made pack fail.....other famous and costly brands, wellllll....you might be surprised what a long summer packing supplies to a Rocky Mountain Lookout does to even the "best" of the bigname packs.

Anything can fail and nothing is "perfect", but, MR packs are damm good and when properly fitted, very comfortable under big loads. I recall packing steel 10 gal. cream cans full of water uphill for a long way on lookouts using Trapper Nelson Np 3s, now, that is around 140 lbs and I would have sold my soul for a Barney's or MR in those days! :)

[kootenayelkslayer]

Has anyone ever seen this backpack before? http://www.ilbepack.com/

Potentially could be a wicked sheep hunting pack. It's made for the military partly by Arc'Teryx I believe, and if you know me, you know how much I love arc'teryx! This pack looks to have most of the qualities of a good pack, and I'm guessing it's tough as nails. I've always been an external frame kinda guy, but might try this thing out one day.

[RJ]

Thanks for the reply Devilbear.
I do have an internal frame pack I used the last time I did the WCT about 8 years ago, If the Barney does appear too ungainly I could always use it instead. Its been long enough that Ive forgotten how many ladders there were :-D. I think it might be a good test run before I go way up in the mountains.

[pnbrock]

looks like a 6500 knock off .....imo

[bigwhiteys]

Has anyone ever seen this backpack before? http://www.ilbepack.com/


That looks pretty much like a MR pack.

There are many companies that claim to make packs/equipment for the US military, because US soldiers are allowed to buy much of their own gear. They sell a couple packs to a few soldiers, BAM now they are a supplier to the military.

There are far fewer pack/gear makers that are actually "supplying" direct to the US military special forces, etc.. Sometimes they will order all new packs, designed a particular way to suit their mission at hand.

I think that's one clear difference between the MR and Barneys in design and function MR takes a LOT of design ideas and tech from their military feedback. That may be why their packs seem a little more mobile/versatile and have many military features within their hunting packs, such as a radio holder, MOLLE webbing etc..

I think it's on Billy Molls site he claims to have taken off and rolled his Barney Pinnacle down a big shale slide with a full grizz hide/skull and the pack was still ok at the bottom.

Carl

[kootenayelkslayer]

I know I'll likely get crucified by the elite sheep hunters here...but a few years ago I guided the head of Cabela's camping department on a bear hunt. He knew I did some sheep hunting so he sent me the cabela's Alaskan Extreme frame and pack to try out for him when it was still a prototype.
I've now used this pack for three full seasons of doing 4 or 5 sheep hunts a year...not to mention some moose and caribou hunts as well. And have also used this pack for all my own personal big game hunting. It's handled loads heavier than I care to guestimate, and has been relatively comfortable. Pretty surprising how tough this pack has been. There isn't really any sort of blemish on this after many tough hunts.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there as a cheaper, but reliable alternative for those looking at external frame packs. (Wow, I sound like I'm on the Cabela's payroll...but it I swear it's an honest opinion ;) )

[KB90]

Why does the barney hunter look so funny, it's almost as if its missing the bottom of the bag? (at least compared to the pinnacle)

What am I missing here?


Also I'm in Quesnel who's gunna let me see their barneys pack? :D

[Devilbear]

A friend of mine, whom I worked with in the mountain gear industry until retiring at 55, is now a manager with Arcteryx and I called her about this pack a couple of years ago. She told me that Arcteryx will not sell these on the Canadian civilian market as they do not want to be associated with the "image" portrayed by those who wear military kit and are not military personnel.

Soooo, while I had been going to order one, I could not and decided that I did not want to be bothered buying one from a US military outlet and then having it shipped to Vancity.

My feeling, from photos is that it is a little small for multiday alpine hunts and the MR is a better choice. I have used various Arcteryx packs, sold and fitted them and so on, I have found MR to be better made and more comfortable under heavy loads, but, YMMV, as everyone's body is different.

There are dealers listed on the Arcteryx military site and you could import one I am sure.

[bigwhiteys]

Why does the barney hunter look so funny, it's almost as if its missing the bottom of the bag? (at least compared to the pinnacle)

What am I missing here?
The space on the bottom has a small shelf to put hides/quarters etc... There is still plenty of room in the main compartment though, it goes wider than the MR, not quite as tall.

Carl

[KB90]

Thanks Carl!

Checked out your website today, read through all the reviews and stories. Looking Good.

I also signed up for my own website, still learning the controls though!

[BCrams]

MR makes their hunting packs out of a 500d cordura, the 1000d is stronger, but more porous, let's water through. the 500d on the MR is still a very durable material.

The Barney I have is actually made out of a newer kevlar woven fabric, which as I understand contributes to the weight considerably but there is no disputing it's strength.

Nope, no rips yet, and that's with some really abrasive use too.

Carl

The 1000d on the Barney has never had a problem with water on hunts to date. Severe rain showers and you're throwing the pack cover over. The underside has a coating that will wear over time but adds to the protection.

The Barney packs have been pretty much indestructable for a long period of time.

I was hoping Alpine would pipe up regarding the MR. Its not the first I've heard in the same situation. Guides as his brother mentioned really put gear to use and its pretty humourous hearing about the duct tape repairs but havn't heard that with the Barney pack from anyone yet.

[BCrams]

Why does the barney hunter look so funny, it's almost as if its missing the bottom of the bag? (at least compared to the pinnacle)

What am I missing here?


Also I'm in Quesnel who's gunna let me see their barneys pack? :D

I'm in PG. I have the Hunter and in law has the Pinnacle.

[Kody94]

and its pretty humourous hearing about the duct tape repairs but havn't heard that with the Barney pack from anyone yet.

I haven't heard of duct tape repairs being required on an MR, and have a hard time believing it would happen...unless somebody punched a carbide tip from their hiking pole through it or something like that.

I guess folks will always find new ways to rip or punch holes in things, but the MR material seems pretty durable to me.

[BCrams]

I guess folks will always find new ways to rip or punch holes in things, but the MR material seems pretty durable to me.

Read it in alpine's post. Just merely stated it was humourous reading about it. That was a first hearing about duct tape and MR in the same sentence.

[Rubicon500]

I haven't heard of duct tape repairs being required on an MR, and have a hard time believing it would happen...unless somebody punched a carbide tip from their hiking pole through it or something like that.

I guess folks will always find new ways to rip or punch holes in things, but the MR material seems pretty durable to me.


I witnessed it first hand , there was multple MR's up there with mulitiple duct tape patches. They all agreed they were great packs but found they werent as durable as they had thought. Not cutting the MR's down just stating a fact after 1-2 season of guiding they had alot of duct tape on them.

[Kody94]

I witnessed it first hand , there was multple MR's up there with mulitiple duct tape patches. They all agreed they were great packs but found they werent as durable as they had thought. Not cutting the MR's down just stating a fact after 1-2 season of guiding they had alot of duct tape on them.

I am not gonna argue with you about it because you saw what you saw, I am just saying it seems odd that there'd be multiples of the same problem in one spot when it never seems to come up as an issue.

What you saw...was it stitches/seams pulling, or abrasion/wear, or cuts from something sharp?

[fuzzy]

It makes sense that a MR pack would have some duct tape patches on it in comparo to a Barneys. I could see this especially on the bottom of the bag where it would contact the ground when being taken on and off. With the barneys wouldnt the external part of the frame come in contact with the ground first therefore protecting the bottom. I also dont think you would ever see a patch on the bottom of a Tatonka external frame either for just this reason.I dont think it spells out that one has supperior materials just the inherit differences in pack designs.

Just my 02 cents from looking at pics, i dont own any of these packs :mrgreen:


fuzzy

[KodiakHntr]

Kind of surprised too, given MR's customer service regarding repairs.

I blew a zipper out of one of the pockets on the waistbelt this fall, and when I called about it they were fairly surprised. Haven't sent it back yet, as I'm still using it fairly regularly. They did offer to put a spare waistbelt in the mail though for when I was ready to ship it.

[ThinAir]

I had a porcupine eat a nice hole in my MR a couple seasons ago...definitely could of used some duct tape.

Sent it to MR when I got home and explained what happend, they GLADLY (for free)repaired it and sent a few stickers back with it too:-D

[bigwhiteys]

I witnessed it first hand , there was multple MR's up there with mulitiple duct tape patches. They all agreed they were great packs but found they werent as durable as they had thought. Not cutting the MR's down just stating a fact after 1-2 season of guiding they had alot of duct tape on them.


I think it's important to note, you are describing professional use of the pack. 1 or 2 seasons guiding can be a lot of wear and tear, much moreso than the guy doing 1 or 2 backpack hunts a year.

I kind of doubt it was the stitching that would split, it's triple stitched. But I don't doubt for a second that the bag material could tear, if caught on rocks, or maybe being packed on the back of a horse, who knows.

Carl

[Devilbear]

It is not difficult to have holes made in packcloth, whether this is packcloth, cordura 500 or cordura 1000 due to some situations. I broke and essentially wore out three CampTrails frame packs from 1968 to 1973 and had holes appear in the packbags from abrasive wear inside Greyhound baggage compartments and the cabin bulkhead of the old "Northland Prince"; one such incident happened between Nelson and Taghum, five miles and on a brandnew CampTrails Horizon, the top of the line at that time.

Campfires also can and do make spark holes in backpacks and tentage, this is not a new issue and has nothing to do with the quality of the pack/tent or whatever. I know of guys who ruined high dollar down expedition parkas and sleeping bags shelled with nylon by leaving them too close to the campfire....wine after skiing may have contributed..... :)

Shit happens and even the finest gear will sometimes break, but, I will, after 33 years of hard use of Dana's packs still recommend them as being the consistently best heavyduty packs I have used. I just wish they could/would use a "bayonet" system and "full Dyneema" as Dan McHale does and on a NICE combo,this would be "perfect", IMHO.

Somebody asked about "The Loadsling", I have one, have carried a weighed 90+ lbs. on my very early Gen 1 NICE frame with it and, for compact, heavy loads, I will take this over any external frame I have ever carried, my Dana Terraframes, included.

For humping a bone-in Elk quarter, a Moose is too much for my damaged right leg at this age, I would prefer a Barney's or similar frame...just much easier to attach an awkward/bulky load the way I like to.

[BCrams]

I think it's important to note, you are describing professional use of the pack. 1 or 2 seasons guiding can be a lot of wear and tear, much moreso than the guy doing 1 or 2 backpack hunts a year.

Carl

Very true.....I've seen and communicated with guides from Alaska where the Barney is used for 3 seasons or more guiding and the packs were still holding their own with all that use from guiding / packing sheep early season to packing caribou / moose later.

[troutseeker]

This is still going on? C'mon guys agree to disagree, both packs have their good and bad points and whoever prefers one will never agree with whoever likes the other one...

The original question was about sheep pack weight, I think? Not about weight and resiliency of duct tape or metal conduit?:-D

It seems official that the hunting season is over and that we are getting some withdrawal symptoms on the site...:twisted:

I simply refuse to hold the ruler for this pecker measuring contest!:mrgreen:

[BCrams]

The original question was about sheep pack weight, I think?



:mrgreen:

With any pack on the market the hunter chooses to use.

A hunter is doing really well if his pack weight for a 14-16 day hunt is 65 lbs give or take a few either way. Thats my weight.

If you're going for 1 week (i.e., 5-10 days) - 45-55 lbs range will fit nicely.

[kootenayelkslayer]

Very true.....I've seen and communicated with guides from Alaska where the Barney is used for 3 seasons or more guiding and the packs were still holding their own with all that use from guiding / packing sheep early season to packing caribou / moose later.

Same with the Cabela's ;)

[bigwhiteys]

A hunter is doing really well if his pack weight for a 14-16 day hunt is 65 lbs give or take a few either way. Thats my weight. If you're going for 1 week (i.e., 5-10 days) - 45-55 lbs range will fit nicely.

What are you guys eating? sawdust? Last year my snack bag alone was like 6lbs of goodness, that doesn't count my mountain house. I want to be down around the 50lb pack weight. With my MR or Barney starting at say 10lbs, that leaves 40lbs for gear and food.

- sleeping setup = 3.5lbs approx. bag/mat/ and a little down pillow :)
- tent = 6lbs approx.
- gun/shells = 7.5lbs approx.
- salt = 2-3lbs approx.
- siltarp II = 1lb approx.
- stove & fuel = 1lb approx.
- Mtn House = 5lbs approx for 8 days.
- Snacks = 6lbs approx for 8 days.
- 5 pair thorlos = 1lb approx.
- clothes = 2lbs approx.
- rain pants + jacket = 1lb approx.
- manfrotto tripod = 2lb approx.
- zeiss 20x60 spotter = 3.5lbs approx.

That's already going over 50lbs including pack. There is lots of items still missing such as GPS, Headlamp, Firstaid, SPOT, gloves camera, rope...

Bivys seem the way to go to shed some pack weight, but I can't see myself going that route. Sleeping Bags are another area, with the current down bags being so small and the waterproof/breathables on the market, they are also a good choice for weight/space savings.


Same with the Cabela's :wink:

I have heard good things about the Cabelas packs too.

Carl

[BCrams]

Carl,

I'm sure you can shave more off your weight. Weights are all loaded at the float plane docks on the digital scales. Packed 65 lb range for the last 5 years for 14 day hunts.

Here's a quick run down off the top of my head compared to yours and every ounce counts as some of us like to put it:


What are you guys eating? sawdust?

Actually we eat well. Its a simple menu.

1 Mountain House Pro-Pack per day each.
1 very lightweight energy bar (forgot the name) for breakfast per day
1 protien bar per day
1 jerky strip / day
4-6 hard candy pieces / day
Sometimes throw a luxury couple handfulls of mnm's to distribute over the hunt.



- sleeping setup = 3.5lbs approx. bag/mat/ and a little down pillow :)


I don't pack a pillow :-D



- tent = 6lbs approx.


Mines 4.5 lbs.



- gun/shells = 7.5lbs approx.


Only pack 10 shells plus 3 in gun.



- salt = 2-3lbs approx.


To be honest, you pack too much salt. I packed that much on my first sheep hunt years ago but a very well known sheep hunter from the Kootenays said the same thing to me. You and your partners only need to pack enough to fill one of those plastic baking soda cans each. Its enough to treat the cape until you get out to the truck where you can lay out all the salt you want on it. Have had a cape last 12 days with no problem with careful care.



- siltarp II = 1lb approx.


Ditto.



- stove & fuel = 1lb approx.


Ditto



- Mtn House = 5lbs approx for 8 days.


Pro pak or 2 person? We use pro paks.



- 5 pair thorlos = 1lb approx.


I pack 3 pairs. One on feet and 2 in pack.



- manfrotto tripod = 2lb approx.
- zeiss 20x60 spotter = 3.5lbs approx.


Slik compact with Leupy



That's already going over 50lbs including pack. There is lots of items still missing such as GPS, Headlamp, Firstaid, SPOT, gloves camera, rope...


I recal you packed spare batteries. I don't. Fresh batteries will work the entire duration of a hunt for all units. I know SSS will remind me that I forgot to change batteries 2 yrs ago on one item but it didn't hurt though.



Sleeping Bags are another area, with the current down bags being so small and the waterproof/breathables on the market, they are also a good choice for weight/space savings.


Can't wait for the sleeping bag portion to be upgraded for more weight loss.

[bigwhiteys]

1 Mountain House Pro-Pack per day each.
1 very lightweight energy bar (forgot the name) for breakfast per day
1 protien bar per day
1 jerky strip / day
4-6 hard candy pieces / day

I would be hungry on your daily rations.


I don't pack a pillow :grin:

It's as light as a feather, literally!


Only pack 10 shells plus 3 in gun.


I have 3 in the clip and 9 in the shell holder.


To be honest, you pack too much salt. I packed that much on my first sheep hunt years ago but a very well known sheep hunter from the Kootenays said the same thing to me. You and your partners only need to pack enough to fill one of those plastic baking soda cans each. Its enough to treat the cape until you get out to the truck where you can lay out all the salt you want on it. Have had a cape last 12 days with no problem with careful care.

I might decide to do a 1/2 mount or even life size on the right ram. I'll pack a little extra salt :) For a shoulder mount and a clean cape job you may be able to get away with a smaller amount, working it into the face/ears/lips area.


Pro pak or 2 person? We use pro paks.

A mixture of both, pro paks leave me wanting a little more though, but they do pack nice.


I pack 3 pairs. One on feet and 2 in pack.


I change my socks often, if you are washing them in a creek or something 3 pair would probably be good. Salts and oils that build up in your socks aren't good to marinate your feet in.


I recal you packed spare batteries. I don't. Fresh batteries will work the entire duration of a hunt for all units. I know SSS will remind me that I forgot to change batteries 2 yrs ago on one item but it didn't hurt though.

I only took 2 aa batteries last year, only turn on electronics when needed and they do last a long time. Keeping the devices warm helps.

[BCrams]

I would be hungry on your daily rations.


Its worked well. Forgot to add gatorade crystals.




I might decide to do a 1/2 mount or even life size on the right ram. I'll pack a little extra salt :) For a shoulder mount and a clean cape job you may be able to get away with a smaller amount, working it into the face/ears/lips area.


Seeing as you plan to only shoot 1 good Stone's ram like your Dad, I'd lean to a half or full body mount too.

However, you can still cut the salt down even for those because a half mount isn't a heck of a lot more skin and you can utilize your partners salt if you decided to do a full mount. Often you're only within a day or two of the lake or highway where lots of salt is. If you're planning to stay longer to look for a 2nd ram, you can always borrow your partners salt closer to the end of the trip because if he dumps one, you're going to be headed out for pick up or highway pretty darned quick and with plenty of time to apply salt.

One needs to look at the average length of stay in the mountains from day 1 to the day they're likely to come out. For example: a 7 or 8 day hunt - take a day for travel ... even if you shoot a ram on day 2 and its an evening ram, you're likely to only start caping the hide out on day 3 and by this time you're only 4 days from coming out to a full load of salt.

You can cut the salt back from your pack weight quite a bit!!



A mixture of both, pro paks leave me wanting a little more though, but they do pack nice.


They do. I've considered mixing it up between regular packs and the propacks especially for 2 week trips to get more fuel. Otherwise its propack all the way.

Also throw in those multivitamin pills (1 per day)

I usually start conditioning my body to the protein bars used for the hunt etc 2-3 weeks before the hunt to avoid shell shock.



I change my socks often, if you are washing them in a creek or something 3 pair would probably be good. Salts and oils that build up in your socks aren't good to marinate your feet in.


Yep!! Salt / oils really get caught in the liner socks and they're quick to dry when cycling them throughout the hunt.



I only took 2 aa batteries last year, only turn on electronics when needed and they do last a long time. Keeping the devices warm helps.


How about the year before :wink: Biggest thing is to ensure fresh batteries at the start of the hunt in each unit.

[srupp]

Cabelas packs are well made..never a failure HOWEVER they are heavy..

Steven

[bigwhiteys]

Seeing as you plan to only shoot 1 good Stone's ram like your Dad, I'd lean to a half or full body mount too.

However, you can still cut the salt down even for those because a half mount isn't a heck of a lot more skin and you can utilize your partners salt if you decided to do a full mount. Often you're only within a day or two of the lake or highway where lots of salt is. If you're planning to stay longer to look for a 2nd ram, you can always borrow your partners salt closer to the end of the trip because if he dumps one, you're going to be headed out for pick up or highway pretty darned quick and with plenty of time to apply salt.

One needs to look at the average length of stay in the mountains from day 1 to the day they're likely to come out. For example: a 7 or 8 day hunt - take a day for travel ... even if you shoot a ram on day 2 and its an evening ram, you're likely to only start caping the hide out on day 3 and by this time you're only 4 days from coming out to a full load of salt.

You can cut the salt back from your pack weight quite a bit!!

Or one could just decide wether they want to pack 1, 2 or 3 lbs of salt. If an hour into your hike you think it's too heavy you've got some ballast you can dump and then you can even hunt over your bait.

Carl

[GoatGuy]

Cabelas packs are well made..never a failure HOWEVER they are heavy..

Steven

My cabelas bag ripped this year and the 'back pad' has failed. Noticed the last pack out there's something wrong with the straps as the load was hanging way out from my back - think it might have something to do with the back pad. It's got some minor rips and tears, had to replace the buckle for the waist belt as well as replacing the two bolts at the bottom with neoprene nuts. The mesh part for your lower back is also hooped.

Must admit haven't used it much for the past couple of years.

Overall a pretty good pack.



If you guys want to shave weight you should be splitting a spotter and a gun between two guys.

One other thing for the fly-in hunts is I'd be doing a food drop or two. Operator might tack on a few extra $ for taking the long way to the landing spot but you'll end up with much better food and lighter packs. Can even pack some whiskey then!

Just a couple ideas.

5 pairs of socks does seem like a lot - don't even pack that many on the horses. :wink:

[BCrams]

Or one could just decide wether they want to pack 1, 2 or 3 lbs of salt. If an hour into your hike you think it's too heavy you've got some ballast you can dump and then you can even hunt over your bait.

Carl

Ballast indeed :mrgreen:

Just a perspective on how much salt is really required from experience. The way you pack your pack with ultralight gear and trying to shave ounces, I would think this is one hell of a weight savings you would jump on.

The amount salt to pack was passed onto me 10 years ago by one who has way more sheep experience than most of us combined. I was skeptical but reassured it was plenty on a 2 week hunt with the bulk of salt waiting at the lake / truck.

Buy one of these, do some baking :-D and fill it with salt and seal it with electric tape and you're good.

http://www.epiceriedirect.com/lookproducts.php?id_pro=3078[

[Kody94]

Rams,

Just to be sure, does your 65 lbs include your rifle?

I would also be hungry on your rations, although mine aren't a whole lot bigger. I usually have a couple energy gels, and some GORP. Every other day I like to have some oatmeal for breakfast instead of a bar, and my "luxury item" is coffee packets and hot chocolate.

Pro-packs are plenty big for me.

My rule of thumb is 1.5 lbs of food per day for short hunts, and 2 lbs per day on long hunts. Wish it was the other way around, but I think we all agree that the massive calorie deficit does catch up to you after a while.

I pack a lot of socks like Carl.

I've probably been over-doing the salt....usually 2 lbs or so. I prefer to cache it (and some extra goodies) somewhere if I am not doing a "through-hunt" though.

[tankster]

last year in the summer we hiked up were we go stoneing in the late summer and pack as much food and water as we can. we also dropped off socks..salt..and some other gear... and placed it in pre determined spots. when it came to go hunting all we had to pack was pretty much our guns optics a few extra clothes our bivys i think last year for a 7 day hunt when i left the truck my pack was around 35 pounds

[Kody94]

http://www.epiceriedirect.com/lookproducts.php?id_pro=3078[

I estimate that would weigh a smidge over 1lb, when filled with salt. Sound right?

[kootenayelkslayer]

I think I would starve to death on BCRams rations! I don't mind packing the extra weight if it means I'm not constantly hungry.

[BCrams]

68 lbs on dock all in this year



I would also be hungry on your rations, although mine aren't a whole lot bigger. I usually have a couple energy gels, and some GORP. Every other day I like to have some oatmeal for breakfast instead of a bar, and my "luxury item" is coffee packets and hot chocolate.


Coffee is a dieretic (sp??) meaning not great if you want to maintain water in your body. (I love coffee though) Hot gatorade every 2nd day or after a cold day works for me.

Looking at the 2 pack porridge weight vs the lightweight protein bar for breakfast ... a little less weight but the bar content was more beneficial over oatmeal (trying to maximize this aspect on a long trip).



Wish it was the other way around, but I think we all agree that the massive calorie deficit does catch up to you after a while.


It does!! Hence why I wouldn't hesitate to trade up half propacks for regular packs for those long 2 week hunts. Under 10 days and I'll stick with all propack.

[kootenayelkslayer]

last year in the summer we hiked up were we go stoneing in the late summer and pack as much food and water as we can. we also dropped off socks..salt..and some other gear... and placed it in pre determined spots. when it came to go hunting all we had to pack was pretty much our guns optics a few extra clothes our bivys i think last year for a 7 day hunt when i left the truck my pack was around 35 pounds

35 pounds is damn light. You must just be packing the bare minimums eh?

[Kody94]

Coffee is a dieretic (sp??) meaning not great if you want to maintain water in your body. (I love coffee though) Hot gatorade every 2nd day or after a cold day works for me.

I agree...I only have the coffee or tea if I feel the need for a warm drink AND have lots of water around. Keeping well hydrated is more important than calories, for lots of reasons.


Looking at the 2 pack porridge weight vs the lightweight protein bar for breakfast ... a little less weight but the bar content was more beneficial over oatmeal (trying to maximize this aspect on a long trip).

The bar definitely offers more nutrition. But a warm breakfast sometimes helps beat a wet, snowy or socked in morning...especially if you end up tent-bound.

[GoatGuy]

Oatmeal really doesn't give you anything. One thing to consider is dehydrating some eggs and bacon. Costco actually sells (or used to) dehydrated bacon.

Just add water.

Works great.

[BCrams]

Oatmeal really doesn't give you anything. One thing to consider is dehydrating some eggs and bacon. Costco actually sells (or used to) dehydrated bacon.

Just add water.

Works great.

I would seriously try that as a treat for a couple mornings.

[Alpine Addict]

Thermos of Coffee and a tin of Copenhagen. Maybe a can of Beans. Look out sheep, here we come!

[whitetailsheds]

Coffee is a dieretic (sp??) meaning not great if you want to maintain water in your body. (I love coffee though)
.

That is the truth...coffee does nothing for you physically.
But mentally....it's something that keeps me sane if you're weathered in for a couple days.
Coffee has been my saviour a couple times!

[GoatGuy]

I would seriously try that as a treat for a couple mornings.

there's lots of calories in bacon.

[bigwhiteys]

I take Mountain House Granola with blueberries for breakfast or occasionaly the MH eggs/bacon/peppers combo.

The MH granola is like 510 calories, add your own extra berries (which we do) and you have like a 600 calorie breaky. It is good to have warm too.

Carl

[Kody94]

Oatmeal really doesn't give you anything. One thing to consider is dehydrating some eggs and bacon. Costco actually sells (or used to) dehydrated bacon.

Just add water.

Works great.

Good tip. I always have a healthy supply of dehydrated (powdered) eggs...never thought of dehydrating bacon.

I do love to take peanut butter and bacon sandwiches for the first couple days of a shorty trip.

EDIT: I forgot to add that oatmeal does give you something...something I never thought about until this last year. Fibre. Turns out that not having enough fibre in your diet can really come back and bite you in the ass someday (pun intended :) ).

[GoatGuy]

Good tip. I always have a healthy supply of dehydrated (powdered) eggs...never thought of dehydrating bacon.

I do love to take peanut butter and bacon sandwiches for the first couple days of a shorty trip.

EDIT: I forgot to add that oatmeal does give you something...something I never thought about until this last year. Fibre. Turns out that not having enough fibre in your diet can really come back and bite you in the ass someday (pun intended :) ).

Oh, dehydrated burger works well too.

We use dehydrated veggies when we're on long trips and light on horsepower. Doesn't go bad and it leaves more room for important things like steak, pork chops, whiskey, beer and scotch (not a big scotch drinker but hunting partner likes to punish himself on occasion). :wink:

[Kody94]

... whiskey, beer and scotch (not a big scotch drinker but hunting partner likes to punish himself on occasion). :wink:

To save on weight, he could just suck some of your good rye whiskey through whatever moss might be found in the area. :)

I have tried freeze dried burger before. Given my new dietary constraints I am going to have to get back into dehydrating vegetables, etc.

[GoatGuy]

To save on weight, he could just suck some of your good rye whiskey through whatever moss might be found in the area. :)

I have tried freeze dried burger before. Given my new dietary constraints I am going to have to get back into dehydrating vegetables, etc.

yeah, maybe some 'used' moss to get the full flavour! :wink:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Bottom line is every person needs to look into their pack and ask themselves what are the essentials and what are luxury items?? Some items might be considered essentials to one person while another person might consider the same item a luxury. Sometimes it can be a matter of how mentally "tough" a person is.

I use a Ridge Rest as a sleeping pad. Would I be more "comfortable" with a cushy sleeping pad??-Yes. Would I sleep better?-Yes ....Is it essential?-No.

Would I have better energy if I ate more? -Yes....Was I hungry at times?? -the odd time. Could I get by with what I ate??- Yes.

Sure you can upgrade a few items here and there... shaving ounces from a pack. Some upgrades are pretty cost effective and some can be very expensive. Some items can simply be left at home. It all adds up.

When I got my gear to where I was decently happy with my choices, I looked at my clothes and my food. Easiest place to shave some weight was the food.....second easiest place was my clothes.

One upgrade that would be cost effective is switching one of my jackets for a down version. Space savings would be fairly significant.

SSS

[Kody94]

Sometimes it can be a matter of how mentally "tough" a person is.

SSS

Sometimes its more a matter of how physically tough they are.

[Kody94]

yeah, maybe some 'used' moss to get the full flavour! :wink:

Nutty! lol :D

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Sometimes its more a matter of how physically tough they are.

Dat's true. Middle age does tend to soften us a little:?.

SSS

[GoatGuy]

Dat's true. Middle age does tend to soften us a little:?.

SSS

When does middle age start? This is a have to know question.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

When does middle age start? This is a have to know question.

That depends.......How long you plan on living????

Have a couple of kids and your half-life changes logarithmically:mrgreen:.

SSS

[KodiakHntr]

That is the truth...coffee does nothing for you physically.


Tell that to someone who's a dedicated coffee drinker and they are three days into caffiene withdrawl.......

[whitetailsheds]

Tell that to someone who's a dedicated coffee drinker and they are three days into caffiene withdrawl.......

I stand corrected.......CAFFIENE WITHDRAWL....been there! Good point KH! COFFEE, COFFEE, COFFEE!
Guess I shoulda said nutritionally!

[troutseeker]

That depends.......How long you plan on living????

Have a couple of kids and your half-life changes logarithmically:mrgreen:.

SSS

Ha, middle age... I just turned 51 and I sure don't feel like or think of myself as middle aged!:mrgreen: Ask my kids (19 and 17) and they'll confirm I act more my shoe size than my age... My 19 year old calls me "stubborn" about this getting older thing???:-D

This year will be my first sheep hunting trip, better late than never! And the way things are looking right now, it will likely be solo as my local hunting partner is comitted to building his dream house this summer...

I train pretty hard, for work and life, and I "think" I can keep up to guys half my age (most times...).

[Devilbear]

I often backpack hunt with a friend who is 43 and has climbed in the Hindu Kush, Alps, Rockies and other major mountain ranges; he has hunted in Europe, Asia, Africa and several North American regions. No, I cannot keep up with him, but, between us we have a lot of experience and all of the best gear available and we get along in the bush very well.

So, this week, I start training for next year and intend to keep it up all year and THEN, I am going to walk that kid's ass into the ground! Well, we old baztards gotta dream big or go home, eh! :)

Seriously, it is all in your head, guys in their 70s with no outdoor experience, lifelong desk jockies have summitted Everest...goes to show ya!

[BCrams]

Ha, middle age... I just turned 51 and I sure don't feel like or think of myself as middle aged!

I train pretty hard, for work and life, and I "think" I can keep up to guys half my age (most times...).

You should be fine! My dad undertook his first ram when he was 59 years old and many are older out there hunting sheep!!

SSS hit home a good point. If you can be physically ready with training, the mental toughness really gives you a boost in the mountains on a hunt. Its gotten to the point where staying in the mountains for 2 weeks is pretty easy because we're enjoying what sheep hunting is all about and being in the mountains. Always maintain a positive attitude no matter what the weather, terrain, or events throw at you...you just smile and keep hunting!!

[troutseeker]

[quote=BCrams;826791]You should be fine! My dad undertook his first ram when he was 59 years old and many are older out there hunting sheep!![quote]

Yes, SSS made sure to tell me about your dad when we met for a Timmy's. I think he was trying to make me feel better about my choice to hunt sheep! He is very considerate...:twisted:

I just plan on being as prepared as I can, hike into the mountains, hunt sheep and hike back out. Sounds pretty simple!

[GoatGuy]

That depends.......How long you plan on living????

Have a couple of kids and your half-life changes logarithmically:mrgreen:.

SSS

Never had plans to live much past 30, looks like that plan will have to be re-visited.

[GoatGuy]

[quote=BCrams;826791]You should be fine! My dad undertook his first ram when he was 59 years old and many are older out there hunting sheep!![quote]

Yes, SSS made sure to tell me about your dad when we met for a Timmy's. I think he was trying to make me feel better about my choice to hunt sheep! He is very considerate...:twisted:

I just plan on being as prepared as I can, hike into the mountains, hunt sheep and hike back out. Sounds pretty simple!

There's a saying for this. You're only as old as the girl you feel........

[pushbush]

Has anyone tried the Exped sleeping bags or have any info on them.

[Jim Prawn]

After reading ALL of these posts on this thread I googled Barney Backpacks and this was first site on the list. Economical and attractive, are these the packs you guys are using?

barney.tystoybox.com/ttc/Backpacks/cPath/10465.html

JP

[Everett]

Ok I tried to be a listner only this round but oh well here is my two bits.

Tent 4lb max for two people
salt nobody needs more than 1lb
siltarp if you have a tent fly not required
socks three max
tripod 1lb

Well that just saved you 6lb get a new bag and therma rest neo air and your down 8lb.
Wow that was easy little extra time and you will be down 10lb

I am not much of a sheep hunter but I have alot of time living with a pack on my back actualy thousands of days so I have learnt you don't want extra weight if you want to be happy.
Wife and I are headed stone/caribou hunting this year I will garuntee our packs will be 40lb our less for 7 days and to be honest will probaly just go with our crew cabs and leave the big bags at home. We do have the advantage of pack dogs though for the way out if luck shines.


What are you guys eating? sawdust? Last year my snack bag alone was like 6lbs of goodness, that doesn't count my mountain house. I want to be down around the 50lb pack weight. With my MR or Barney starting at say 10lbs, that leaves 40lbs for gear and food.

- sleeping setup = 3.5lbs approx. bag/mat/ and a little down pillow :)
- tent = 6lbs approx.
- gun/shells = 7.5lbs approx.
- salt = 2-3lbs approx.
- siltarp II = 1lb approx.
- stove & fuel = 1lb approx.
- Mtn House = 5lbs approx for 8 days.
- Snacks = 6lbs approx for 8 days.
- 5 pair thorlos = 1lb approx.
- clothes = 2lbs approx.
- rain pants + jacket = 1lb approx.
- manfrotto tripod = 2lb approx.
- zeiss 20x60 spotter = 3.5lbs approx.

That's already going over 50lbs including pack. There is lots of items still missing such as GPS, Headlamp, Firstaid, SPOT, gloves camera, rope...

Bivys seem the way to go to shed some pack weight, but I can't see myself going that route. Sleeping Bags are another area, with the current down bags being so small and the waterproof/breathables on the market, they are also a good choice for weight/space savings.



I have heard good things about the Cabelas packs too.

Carl

[Devilbear]

What mountain tent that is truely reliable in alpine storms and is comfortable for two weighs 4 lbs. or less? I had an Early Winters Light Dimension, the very first recreational Gore-Tex product ever built and used it all over BC very extensively in all seasons; it weighed about 4 lbs and my wife and I could sleep in it, but, it was awful dam cramped.

That kind of tent is fine for young wife-husband couples in summer for a couple nights, but, I have found that a two man tent per person is pretty much necessary in bad weather and remote areas for any multi-day trips.

I like the Integral Designs MKI-XL for the lightest stormproof tent for one on 4-14 day trips; it runs about 4.75 lbs. and is very comfortable, but, these must be imported from US dealers after being shipped from Calgary to them and they are pretty costly for younger, family guys with all the optics and crap you must have for sheep.

I have all kinds of bivy-tarp rigs, but, these get pretty "old" after the 2nd or 3rd night of high winds and pounding rain and the best alternative, IMO, is a really good two-man tent for two partners, the Hilleberg Allak, Jannu and the ID-MKIII, that Carl has are about as good as it gets...and require a second mortgage!

Being an "untall" guy, I use a Hilleberg Saivo, a fabulous expedition tent for my base camp and carry an ID Mega Sola, the most rugged and simple to deploy shelter I have ever had. This weighs 3 lbs. 9 oz. and is OK if you can handle the low ceiling and lack of room for a couple of nights. This total setup is a lot of coin, but, it is totally reliable in all weather and comfortable for longer trips by air or horse or river boat.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Tell that to someone who's a dedicated coffee drinker and they are three days into caffiene withdrawl.......

Easy to ween off that stuff before you go. I do it every year. Always good to know that a person can get away from any addiction....except sheep hunting:-D.


You should be fine! My dad undertook his first ram when he was 59 years old and many are older out there hunting sheep!!

SSS hit home a good point. If you can be physically ready with training, the mental toughness really gives you a boost in the mountains on a hunt. Its gotten to the point where staying in the mountains for 2 weeks is pretty easy because we're enjoying what sheep hunting is all about and being in the mountains. Always maintain a positive attitude no matter what the weather, terrain, or events throw at you...you just smile and keep hunting!!

A new sheep hunter can't give themselves experience, can't control the weather. Don't let your fitness be your limiting factor. That's something you can control.




There's a saying for this. You're only as old as the girl you feel........

So if I'm not allowed to feel anyone....will I live forever??:?


Ok I tried to be a listner only this round but oh well here is my two bits.

Tent 4lb max for two people
salt nobody needs more than 1lb
siltarp if you have a tent fly not required
socks three max
tripod 1lb

Well that just saved you 6lb get a new bag and therma rest neo air and your down 8lb.
Wow that was easy little extra time and you will be down 10lb

I am not much of a sheep hunter but I have alot of time living with a pack on my back actualy thousands of days so I have learnt you don't want extra weight if you want to be happy.
Wife and I are headed stone/caribou hunting this year I will garuntee our packs will be 40lb our less for 7 days and to be honest will probaly just go with our crew cabs and leave the big bags at home. We do have the advantage of pack dogs though for the way out if luck shines.

So if you leave your tent/gear and bivy-out you would leave your tent/gear without a fly??

A Siltarp is one of those "comfort" things as guys survived without lightweight tarps for many, many years....but I'd say a Siltarp II is one of thee most valuable pieces of gear that I own. Also doubles as a water-gathering device...which can save you time and energy and keep you hunting more "effectively" and efficiently....which ultimately increases your odds of success:).

SSS

[bigwhiteys]

So if you leave your tent/gear and bivy-out you would leave your tent/gear without a fly??

I think he said leave the fly use the siltarp? or if you have a tent fly, you don't need the siltarp. I dunno....

It's clear nobodys pack list is perfect for everyones use. I'll carry my 5 pair of socks and my 2-3lbs of salt for MY sheep cape, happily.


Well that just saved you 6lb get a new bag and therma rest neo air and your down 8lb.

I checked out the Neoair a while ago and while it's lighter I don't see what the big deal is... It's got very little insulation value (2.5R), and is not even close to the level of comfort I currently have. An upgrade in the weight dept for sure but a major downgrade in comfort. Most of the time, we are camped on rocks somewhere.

We can try and ram our opinions on gear etc... down peoples throats or we can offer up what works for us. I try and offer up what works for me.

Carl

[Deaddog]

my pack is never under 70lbs, always have coffee, I sleep on my extra clothes, no thermarest, bring at least 26 ounces of "medicine', tent is almost 9 lbs and sleeps three guys, rifle is an old 30-06 savage that I got when I was 18 for graduation, weights a lot!! usually have 3-5 lbs of salt, always have a sil tarp that stays with me, usually four to five packs of colts to boot, lighter fluid etc..... as Carl says " I try and offer up what works for me" DD

[Everett]

Ok Carl what works for me is the lightest pack I can get away with. The reason behind this are bad back and worn out knees. If I want to be happy I carry a light pack.
Heavy packs 50lb + will cause serious strain to the average persons body throw in rough terain bad weather and your an accident waiting to happen. Some of you guys are serious mountain hunters and have a system that works for you. But the majority of the people reading this thread for advice are going to be new to multi day expeditions. Odds are are not going to enjoying life with a 65lb pack on there back. The luxury items tend to lose signifigance when your out gas at 11am because your hauling to much weight.
I am not specificly attacking your packing it was just and easy accesible list to use to make my point.

[bigwhiteys]

Heavy packs 50lb + will cause serious strain to the average persons body throw in rough terain bad weather and your an accident waiting to happen. Some of you guys are serious mountain hunters and have a system that works for you. But the majority of the people reading this thread for advice are going to be new to multi day expeditions.
Most of us on here are "training" with these pack weights and 65lbs isn't unreasonable for a grown man to carry, especially if you've prepared yourself for it.

We also don't run around with 65lbs on our backs everywhere we go. Sometimes we'll haul to a base camp, and day hike out with empty packs.

Sometimes you have to pick up and move camp to another place, that's fine too.


I am not specificly attacking your packing it was just and easy accesible list to use to make my point.

I think you should spend the time to make a detailed list of every item you would be taking on your 7 day hunt, weigh them individually and then post the info here. You'll likely help a few people out.

Carl

[BCrams]

We can try and ram our opinions on gear etc... down peoples throats or we can offer up what works for us. I try and offer up what works for me.

Carl


I second that.

I offer up what has proven to work really well for us on successful 2 week sheep hunts between my partners and I as well as other friends who are as hardcore as anything. I advocate some equipment such as the Barney because I've used it for over 6 years and am quite qualified to speak on its merrits having put it through everything you can imagine. Its the same as kootenayelkslayer speaking on behalf of the Cabelas with extreme use guiding without fail. As is the same with your use of the MR pack the last couple years (we need to get an animal in your MR 15 miles back and 2 mountains over for the final installment on your field test opinion under actual conditions as its a different ball game compared to loading up to that weight on training hikes versus having that weight after a week of hard hunting in the mountains and thats something I also know .... that is what people want to hear!! :wink:)

Success does not mean an animal down (thats a bonus). Success is being able to comfortably spend the entire duration of the hunt under some of the most adverse weather conditions and often tough hunting conditions day after day with confidence in the equipment we are using from start to finish and obviously its been clear we all have a system that works and every individual will make up their minds what will work for themselves!!

Find it humourous you'll try to shave ounces on some gear but happily pack 2-3 pounds of salt :-D But that just illustrates to people, you're willing to pack that much salt as does DD whereas I will take what has proven to be just the right amount knowing I have plenty for when i get out. Some people will see that you pack 2-3 pounds salt and decide thats what they'll take and others will see how much I take and go, hell thats 2 lbs less in my pack. Each to their own.

Great posts and feedback from all who contributed here.

[KodiakHntr]

I think that these lists are incredibly helpful to a lot of guys that are contemplating heading out on their first backpack hunts.

We encountered guys this last August 6 or 7km back in that had no concept of what they should or shouldn't be packing to help add to their enjoyment. A Frying pan, and mid sized gerber axe complete with big plastic sheaths were hanging off the back of one pack. The other guy had a pair of pots hanging down from his pack. He may have had a sink with him too....Both guys had (IIRC) bags they were carrying in their hands. Might of only been one guy. Regardless, carrying something in your hands....wow....


Neither guy was enjoying life very much at that point. And they'd indicated they were going to do a through hike of around 70km.....They could of used ANY of these lists and been MUCH better off as to having an idea of what should be carried.

[KodiakHntr]

Easy to ween off that stuff before you go. I do it every year. Always good to know that a person can get away from any addiction....except sheep hunting:-D.

SSS

Sure, a guy CAN wean off of it, but why?.......grin

That is one luxury that I won't give up in the morning.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc182/KodiakHntr2/Sheep%20Hunting/freshcoffeewithbreakfast.jpg

It doesn't get any better than this baby......

[BCrams]

Ok Carl what works for me is the lightest pack I can get away with. The reason behind this are bad back and worn out knees. If I want to be happy I carry a light pack.


Thats where hunt area and hunt style would work in your favour. An example of this would be to base camping off the highway and making one or 2 night forays off the highway into different drainages with a very light load.


Heavy packs 50lb + will cause serious strain to the average persons body throw in rough terain bad weather and your an accident waiting to happen.

65 lbs is pretty easy to hike with if you condition your body for it and prepare properly

A 20 lb day pack will just about kill anyone if they didn't prepare for hiking in the mountains too and if they don't know how to confidently deal with the elements such as sudden mountain weather changes......major accident waiting to happen :wink:



Some of you guys are serious mountain hunters and have a system that works for you. But the majority of the people reading this thread for advice are going to be new to multi day expeditions.

Thats why the 'new' guys should heed the advice of those who have done a lot of mountain hunts and spent a lot of time in the mountains.



Odds are are not going to enjoying life with a 65lb pack on there back. The luxury items tend to lose signifigance when your out gas at 11am because your hauling to much weight.


At 65 lbs - I don't think I have much for luxury. :? I have what is needed to survive comfortably and have a safe hunt. If new guys would heed some of the advice from experienced guys pertaining to training and being conditioned ... all the better for a 'safe' and enjoyable trip.

[Devilbear]

This has become the single best thread I have ever read on HBC and among the top half dozen anywhere. I enjoy the interaction of experienced guys and the queries from novices and the genuine courtesy and respect shown to other posters by all here.....this is the way it should be and we can all learn from each other.

BUT,NOW I am getting a "jones" for a Barney's Pinnacle and that is one expense I really don't need at this time! :) :) :)

I will be posting a couple of lists and some suggestions as to where to find good, used , inexpensive gear to start out with; there is lots of "preowned" stuff out there and one can often save a lot if you know what to look for or can ask someone who does.

[bighornbob]

Find it humourous you'll try to shave ounces on some gear but happily pack 2-3 pounds of salt :-D But that just illustrates to people, you're willing to pack that much salt as does DD whereas I will take what has proven to be just the right amount knowing I have plenty for when i get out. Some people will see that you pack 2-3 pounds salt and decide thats what they'll take and others will see how much I take and go, hell thats 2 lbs less in my pack. Each to their own.


I remember reading a post a few years back on another site where this guy went on and one about the lightest this and the lightest that, that he had bought and he also cut tags off all his cloths to shave weight, then he goes to talk about his food and he packs canned foods plus a full salami and a 2lb block of cheese. Probably one of Deaddogs hunting partners:mrgreen:.

Like others have said pack what you want, these are just reccomendations.

I cant beleive no ones mentioned the Window mount spotter. Oh wait thats my sheep hunting in the south:mrgreen:

[BCrams]

BUT,NOW I am getting a "jones" for a Barney's Pinnacle and that is one expense I really don't need at this time! :) :) :)


Its a massive bag!! When I saw it after my in law bought it, I was like holy sh$t. A bit much for me personally but you'd have a tonne of 'space' you just won't fill up.

I didn't like the fact there was no compartment inside. Meaning when away from base camp for the day and coming back with a ram. My weight was above the shelf and comfortable whereas his weight was right at the bottom by the ass. Thats the downside to that pack. Its like a moose bag only bigger.

[troutseeker]

I am aiming for a 65 pound pack heading in. I have some newer gear and some older, and can't upgrade to all fancy lightweight equipment because of the money required, lol.

So my tent will likely be my old Marmot Peapod, it's been reliable. My sleeping bag weighs just under 4 pounds and I have an Exped Synmat (cause I side sleep and had shoulder operations). That plus my siltarp brings my sleeping/shelter system to around 12 pounds. Add my MR6500 and I am over 20 pounds.

Food for 10 days @ 15 pounds and stove and gas @ 3 pounds (may upgrade that).

Rifle and ammo (in case I need it) @ 8 pounds.

So I am around 46 pounds and still need to add clothing, GPS, Spot, compass and maps, salt, and all the stuff that I'll need to live comfortably

[bigwhiteys]

Food for 10 days @ 15 pounds and stove and gas @ 3 pounds (may upgrade that).

Check out Jetboil. you'll save a pound and it won't break the bank at about $100. Sucks for actually cooking though, but it's great for just boiling water.

Carl

[bigwhiteys]

Here is another light weight list that a reader left as feedback on my list that is published on my website. He estimated his pack out to be 140lbs.



Good list Carl
Someone should put a list together for the solo hunter … pack weight becomes more important then. It would be interesting to see the what items become nessessary vs are brought for comfort and “what if” scenerios. With meat, cape (live) , and horms I exstimated my pack weight was 140lbs plus which is probably the maximum the average person can carrry out of the mountains for 10+ km’s.I will take a shot at the solo list but dont have any specific weights.
1.External lPack
2.sleeping bag
3.Blue Foamy ( cut to 5ft)
4. Bivi bag
5.Siltarp II (no tent pegs or walking stick just use string tied to rocks over top of pack, will hold in the most windy conditions on top of ridges))
6.Binos
7.spotting scope ( no tri-pod, use pack and lay on the ground in the prone position)
8. rifle and 20 rounds (no sling, rifle should be in your hands at all times)
9.1 – 3″ knife
10.3 razor blades
11.pop bottle of fine salt
12.30ft para cord
13.Garbage (for everthing you want to keep dry)
14. 2 litre pop bottle of water
15.1/2 roll toilet paper
16.1 pillow case for meat
17.1 bic lighter and 1 cube of fire starter ( if camped on ridge then no wood anyways)
18. Mini DV spy cam ( new..with 4 GB can take 2 hrs video or 5000 pictures.. looks like a key chain)
19.3 bandages (no other safety gear required….just wacth your step. No GPS , SPOT , SAT phones, first air kit, or flash lights neccessary)
20. map and compass (even this is optional- with such larges drainages it is difficult to get lost)
21. light weight saw ( This saw can stay as use can use a knife to remove skull from vertabrae)
22. CLOTHING: wool base layer, wool sweater, Mid weight fleece, mid weight wool pants, light wool long under wear, rain gear with hood), 1 spair heavy wool socks, soccer shorts (ultra light and dry’s quickly), wool balaclava or toque, wool mitts.
23. 2 litre pop bottle (for water)
24. DRY Food (No cooking) – 8 -10 lbs of what every keeps you fed and energy up. ( No cooking allows to save on bulk and weight of stove, fuel, water, and utencils
26. No other misc items required.
The goal is to keep pack between 45lbs and 55lbs. By the time the sheep is taken a person should be less 10lbs of food, water, ammo….so 45lbs pack plus meat , shoulder cape ,and horns adding up to be 120 to 140lbs and in one trip… thats the goal. I know i left several things off the list compared to your list but i feel quite comfortable with what i have for 7 or 8 day hunt in August to late September. For others who dont spend much time hunting by them selves and over nighting in places where they have never been before items such flashlites, GPS, First aid kit and SPOT should be brought.
For a person to make 1 trip back to the truck some items have to be sacrificed and risks taken thats just the nature of solo hunting.
good work on all the blogs, I am sure many people appreciate it.
cheers

[BlacktailStalker]

I find it amusing how guys cant just read what others do and NOT comment when they dont agree with it.
Why not post what you pack to help the guys looking for lists and let your post be your arguement instead of pressing the point and adding pages of b.s for other guys to sort through....
Dont forget chapstick :)

[troutseeker]

Check out Jetboil. you'll save a pound and it won't break the bank at about $100. Sucks for actually cooking though, but it's great for just boiling water.

Carl

Hi Carl, Jetboil is what I am considering. Seems reasonable and efficient, all reviews I've read so far were positive.

Of course I still have to add my bino's, spotter and tripod...

So maybe 55 pounds plus clothing, I guess I'd better be getting usedto wearing thongs...

[bigwhiteys]

I find it amusing how guys cant just read what others do and NOT comment when they dont agree with it.

agreed, and spare the lecture of how much more hardcore they are than you or anybody else.


So maybe 55 pounds plus clothing, I guess I'd better be getting usedto wearing thongs...

haha... I wear some synthetic boxer briefs from MEC (I know, I know). They are $10 a pair and for me, work really well. Keep on top of the sweat "down there" or you'll be walking like a cowboy that's spent a few long days on the horse.

Carl

[Maxx]

agreed, and spare the lecture of how much more hardcore they are than you or anybody else.



haha... I wear some synthetic boxer briefs from MEC (I know, I know). They are $10 a pair and for me, work really well. Keep on top of the sweat "down there" or you'll be walking like a cowboy that's spent a few long days on the horse.

Carl


That brings up a good point, be sure to test ALL new gear and clothing that you buy a few times before taking in on a 10 day backpack hunt. You may find that something is defective, doesn't fit, leaks etc...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Hi Carl, Jetboil is what I am considering. Seems reasonable and efficient, all reviews I've read so far were positive.

Of course I still have to add my bino's, spotter and tripod...

So maybe 55 pounds plus clothing, I guess I'd better be getting usedto wearing thongs...

Jetboil is a great setup. Pretty damn efficient!! Couple of other good stoves out there as well.

I use a Brunton Raptor. Weighs 5oz and a 450gm canister of fuel will last 14 days over for two people. In fact, I have yet to empty one. The large canister actually weighs 22.65 oz. I also made a windscreen out of a small household stove burner saver for the bottom ...and my old whisperlite windscreen for the sides.
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=299

With that stove I use a Snow Peak 900 Titanium pot...which doesn't break the bank. Large enough to boli water for two Mtn House Propacks.
http://www.snowpeak.com/cookware/backpacking/trek-900-titanium-scs-008t.html

If no wood is available you can fry sheep meat in the lid/frying pan combo. You can't do that with the jetboil....but really, how often does one kill a ram??:-D

SSS

[Stone Sheep Steve]

That brings up a good point, be sure to test ALL new gear and clothing that you buy a few times before taking in on a 10 day backpack hunt. You may find that something is defective, doesn't fit, leaks etc...

That's very important, Maxx!

On my first ever Stone hunt my partner ordered a brand new two man bivy set up....just over 2 lbs. Was a great "minimalistic" setup.....until it rained. Bloody thing leaked like a seive and ruined out hunt. Try climbing out of soaking wet rain gear and climbing into a soaking wet sleeping bag:icon_frow.
It ruined our trip and we bailed early.
Lesson learned......the hard way.

SSS

[Everett]

I headed to work now but will put list with weight together tommorow.


I think you should spend the time to make a detailed list of every item you would be taking on your 7 day hunt, weigh them individually and then post the info here. You'll likely help a few people out.

Carl[/quote]

[tankster]

anyone ever try terra nova stuff?

buddy of mine has the laser 600 bag and the solar elite tent

the sleeping bag is 18 ounces and the tent is a pound and a half

[Kody94]

I find it amusing how guys cant just read what others do and NOT comment when they dont agree with it.
Why not post what you pack to help the guys looking for lists and let your post be your arguement instead of pressing the point and adding pages of b.s for other guys to sort through....
Dont forget chapstick :)

I like those posts...I really want to know WHY someone feels their system or packing list is better than mine. My mind is open, and I'll change my list in a heartbeat if someone else has addressed an issue better than me.

I am not a fan of the implication that I am not as mentally tough because I like hot chocolate though. ;) Its a good thing I am just physically tougher. lol

[houndogger]

So what does a boned out ram with horns and cape for a shoulder mount weigh? You guys are saying you 65# packs going in. Roughly 12 to 15#s for food,and coming out with sheep with a pack of 120#s? Seems light to me?

[troutseeker]

Jetboil is a great setup. Pretty damn efficient!! Couple of other good stoves out there as well.

I use a Brunton Raptor. Weighs 5oz and a 450gm canister of fuel will last 14 days over for two people. In fact, I have yet to empty one. The large canister actually weighs 22.65 oz. I also made a windscreen out of a small household stove burner saver for the bottom ...and my old whisperlite windscreen for the sides.
http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=299

With that stove I use a Snow Peak 900 Titanium pot...which doesn't break the bank. Large enough to boli water for two Mtn House Propacks.
http://www.snowpeak.com/cookware/backpacking/trek-900-titanium-scs-008t.html

If no wood is available you can fry sheep meat in the lid/frying pan combo. You can't do that with the jetboil....but really, how often does one kill a ram??:-D

SSS

Funny that you bring that stove up, I've had one fo several years now and use it with a lightweight GSI pot. I've always feared it would not burn consistently at colder temps and use an MSR gas stove when it's cold.

I hear the Isobutane mix cannisters work well in the cold, can you confirm this? If so I may just use that stove, after all it worked for you!

I like the pot, and will probably get one of those, the lid to cook in is great and the weight is nice. Would be good for grouse breast, trout bits, or in your case, marmot tenderloins!

[Devilbear]

Its a massive bag!! When I saw it after my in law bought it, I was like holy sh$t. A bit much for me personally but you'd have a tonne of 'space' you just won't fill up.

I didn't like the fact there was no compartment inside. Meaning when away from base camp for the day and coming back with a ram. My weight was above the shelf and comfortable whereas his weight was right at the bottom by the ass. Thats the downside to that pack. Its like a moose bag only bigger.


This is EXACTLY the sort of info. I am interested in getting here. I have had about three cutting edge, ( at their time) full length packbags, two on external frames and one internal and found the problem you mention, the weight sagging and riding far too low for my comfort.

With 70 or more lbs. in any of these, I would be humped over frontways like a dog humping a donut and this impairs balance, breathing and blocks your front vision that you need for safety and spotting game. Soooo, it would appear that the Pinnacle is not for me.

What, then, is the pack from Barney's that does have the internal compartments and keeps the load higher as you mention? I had the Moose-Freighter pack from CampTrails, used it for 3 years and gave it to one of my nephews, it was not my idea of a serious heavy load hauler.

I prefer to carry my bivycamp in one larger stuffsack and use this as a "shelf" ,on external frames, so, a 3/4 bag would suit me just fine.

[BCrams]

I like those posts...I really want to know WHY someone feels their system or packing list is better than mine. My mind is open, and I'll change my list in a heartbeat if someone else has addressed an issue better than me.

I am not a fan of the implication that I am not as mentally tough because I like hot chocolate though. ;) Its a good thing I am just physically tougher. lol

Love those posts! Even I'm flexible with touches here and there and will change but its going to have to be pretty convincing.

Hot chocolate would just be the focus of good natured ribbing on a hunt. :lol: ...... Just as I would be funnin' with Carl about those 2 extra pounds of salt he'd pack and he'd joking about his bed fit for a king over the ridgerest :mrgreen:

For those who aren't entirely familiar with some of us here ... none of these posts are personal and most of us know that already. We all have a common interest....sheep hunting.

[kootenayelkslayer]

BCRams,
How much salt did you say you pack?
Unfortunately when I go out, I usually don't even know whether I'll be dealing with a shoulder mount or a full mount, or even the possibility of having to deal with a caribou cape to too. So, I end up having to pack a lot of salt, probably the heaviest single thing in my pack. I use just about a freezer bag worth or salt to do a full mount sheep...but I'm sure I could probably get away with a bit less. I just hate to be cheap with salt!

[GoatGuy]

Funny that you bring that stove up, I've had one fo several years now and use it with a lightweight GSI pot. I've always feared it would not burn consistently at colder temps and use an MSR gas stove when it's cold.

I hear the Isobutane mix cannisters work well in the cold, can you confirm this? If so I may just use that stove, after all it worked for you!

I like the pot, and will probably get one of those, the lid to cook in is great and the weight is nice.

Not fun if it's -20 out.

[BCrams]

BCRams,
How much salt did you say you pack?
Unfortunately when I go out, I usually don't even know whether I'll be dealing with a shoulder mount or a full mount, or even the possibility of having to deal with a caribou cape to too. So, I end up having to pack a lot of salt, probably the heaviest single thing in my pack. I use just about a freezer bag worth or salt to do a full mount sheep...but I'm sure I could probably get away with a bit less. I just hate to be cheap with salt!

Ask yourself how long you're away from 'base camp' after the ram is down such as where the plane or boat dropped you off. If you know you're returning to those spots, I'd have as much salt as needed to do an entire body mount.

For just a sheep cape ... I just pack one of these things full of salt. Its enough to treat the cape until you get to where you have a lot more salt waiting. I'm sure it would do in a pinch for a half body until you got to the stock pile.

http://www.kraftcanada.com/SiteCollectionImages/ImageRepository/4/pro_ar_magicbakingpowder_e.jpg

[Maxx]

Ask yourself how long you're away from 'base camp' after the ram is down such as where the plane or boat dropped you off. If you know you're returning to those spots, I'd have as much salt as needed to do an entire body mount.

For just a sheep cape ... I just pack one of these things full of salt. Its enough to treat the cape until you get to where you have a lot more salt waiting. I'm sure it would do in a pinch for a half body until you got to the stock pile.

http://www.kraftcanada.com/SiteCollectionImages/ImageRepository/4/pro_ar_magicbakingpowder_e.jpg


That really doesn't seem to be enough salt to me, but obviously it works for you. Are you using fine table salt? Maybe we can skin a domestic sheep at the WSSOBC banquet, and you can show us all how to Cape/Salt the hide.:-D I carry about as much salt as Carl, and find that to be about right.

[Kody94]

Here's my gear-pile for an 8 day stone sheep hunt. You will note a few luxury items. :)

Some additional Wisers cough syrup was also packed (13oz bottle) in case of illness arising. A keen observer will note a pack of Colts Mild, in case a 40+incher hit the ground. No 40"er died, but my partner appreciated the Colts, since the weather was terrible and he (being a closet nicotine addict) required the occassional "pick me up"...it was a win-win.

The only salt I carried with me was the ziploc on the far right. Probably about the size of BCRams container. More salt was stashed at our basecamp (fly-in).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/SheepHuntAug9-182009002.jpg

[kootenayelkslayer]

Ask yourself how long you're away from 'base camp' after the ram is down such as where the plane or boat dropped you off. If you know you're returning to those spots, I'd have as much salt as needed to do an entire body mount.

For just a sheep cape ... I just pack one of these things full of salt. Its enough to treat the cape until you get to where you have a lot more salt waiting. I'm sure it would do in a pinch for a half body until you got to the stock pile.

http://www.kraftcanada.com/SiteCollectionImages/ImageRepository/4/pro_ar_magicbakingpowder_e.jpg

Ya I could see that doing the job for a shoulder/half mount if applied carefully. And most likely your going to get back to your stockpile of salt within a few days. The only time when plentiful salt is really essential I guess is when weather keeps you from getting out of the mountains on time.